1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: Last week we learned that territorians over eighteen are going 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: to be able to buy OC spray from September for 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: self defense as part of a twelvemonth trial. Now we're 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: making the announcement. The Chief Minister said that the Northern 5 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: Territory would look to replicate the approach in Western Australia, 6 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: which is on the other jurisdiction where OC spray is lawful. 7 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: The Chief Minister Leafanocchiaro joins me in the studio. Good 8 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: morning to your Chief Minister. 9 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 2: And wanting Kadian to your listeners. 10 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: Now, Chief Minister, why did you decide to go down 11 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: this path with the OC spray. 12 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's something that territorians have been talking to us 13 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 3: about for a long time. I think we might have 14 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:36,639 Speaker 3: even talked about it. 15 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 2: On the show. 16 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 3: Others have been calling for castle law and different things, 17 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 3: and i'd flag that we were looking at a range 18 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 3: of feasible options. 19 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 2: And certainly because Western. 20 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 3: Australia has already gone down this path, it provides us 21 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 3: a really good example of how we can make this 22 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 3: work really effectively in the territory. But you know, on 23 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 3: top of that, we're out there now, you know, hearing 24 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 3: people on this issue, and police are looking really closely 25 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 3: now at what we might need to change to make 26 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 3: it more operational for the territory. 27 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 2: But I think the feedback we've had so far as 28 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 2: that most people are open to it. And of course 29 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:11,199 Speaker 2: it's not compulsory. 30 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 3: If people don't want to buy OC spray come one September, 31 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 3: you don't have to. But if you do want that 32 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 3: extra level of self defense, should you need it, then 33 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 3: you'll be legally able to do. 34 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: So how is it going to work in terms of 35 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: the rollout and who's going to be able to access it? 36 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: They're sort of the biggest questions that we're getting at 37 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: the minutes. 38 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, great questions. 39 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 3: So we're looking at so it will be licensed viaarm 40 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 3: dealers would be the people who sell it, because they're 41 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 3: already people who know how to store and look after ammunition, weapons, 42 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 3: et cetera. So you know, your local tackle shop for example, 43 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 3: would be where you could go. And then in terms 44 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 3: of who will be able to buy it, it must be 45 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 3: you must be over eighteen. We know that much, and 46 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 3: then we're looking through how can we make it so 47 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 3: that there are some safeguards around who can and can't 48 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 3: purchase it without making that too onerous. I mean, at 49 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 3: the end of the day, we want territories to be 50 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 3: able to act, so putting them through a six month 51 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 3: wait or something like that would be unworkable. 52 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 2: So we're just going through that now. 53 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: So are you going to need any training or anything 54 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: like that in terms of how to use it because 55 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: there's people worried it's going to wind up in the 56 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: wrong hand. 57 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 2: Sure, no, I don't think so. 58 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 3: I believe in wa they sort of give you a 59 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 3: bit of a flyer on how to use it. But again, 60 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 3: the police will look at whether we need to do 61 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 3: any of that. Just to people who are concerned about 62 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 3: it getting in the wrong hands, and we've heard this 63 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 3: a fair bit. I just ask everyone to take a 64 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 3: step back and think about it more from a practical perspective. Now, 65 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 3: if you open your kitchen sink right now at home 66 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 3: or in your office, there will be all manner of 67 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 3: things under it that could be used against you. When 68 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 3: you go to bed at night, your bedside lamp is 69 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 3: that you're on your bedside table, your. 70 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: Keys might be there. 71 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 3: There are all sorts of things people can weaponize against you. 72 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 3: If you're out on a walk, people could pick up 73 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 3: a stick or a rock. So we already live every day. 74 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 3: If someone is going to try and hurt you, people 75 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 3: will find a way to hurt you. I don't think 76 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 3: OC spray creates any difference in that respect. 77 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,119 Speaker 1: So September is when we're expecting this to roll out. Yeah, 78 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: so when are you kind of like, what's the process 79 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: now for the Northern Territory Police and who are they 80 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: going to be consulting, you know, what work needs to 81 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: happen in the meantime. 82 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 3: Yep, So they're speaking with WA police and looking to 83 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 3: how they've rolled it out. They'll be speaking to obviously 84 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 3: the firearms dealers, key stakeholders, people who really want to 85 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 3: have a voice in this space, and we'll just work 86 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 3: through it to be a twelve month trial. 87 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 2: So of course it. 88 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 3: Will then be evaluated and we'll be looking at did 89 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 3: that work was that successful? 90 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 2: Is it something we make permanent going forward? So that'll 91 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: all be done. 92 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 3: Ready to go for one September so that territories are 93 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 3: really clear about what that looks like. 94 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: Okay. Now, the Aboriginal Medical Services Alliance sam SAND has 95 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: strongly condemned the OC spray trial. They're warning it's going 96 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: to do nothing to improve community safety, The CEO John 97 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: Patterson giving saying that it's going to give the community 98 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: access to a weapon. It will not figure violence, it 99 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: will fuel it, putting lives of vulnerable people at risk. 100 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: He says the colp's decision will also deepen community distrust 101 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: and worsen racial divides. What do you say to those 102 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: who feel the roll out could put the most vulnerable 103 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: in the community at risk? 104 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 3: Well, I reject everything that John says from the start there. 105 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 3: I mean, this hysterical commentary we're seeing at the moment 106 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 3: really doesn't help anyone. I just don't think anyone thinking 107 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,919 Speaker 3: very calmly or practically about this could come to that conclusion. 108 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: What do you think is hysterical about what he sees? 109 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, how will OC spray? 110 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 3: So, how are the legal use of OC spray insite 111 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 3: additional racial tensions? 112 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 2: Or how? I mean? 113 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 3: I just as I said, go to your kitchen sink 114 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 3: right now, and I challenge you to find something that 115 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 3: would not cause you great discomfort if someone sprayed that 116 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 3: in your face. You know it's you know, what we're 117 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 3: talking about is different measures, new measures, trying new things 118 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 3: to not only make the territories safer place. 119 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 2: But to make people feel more in control of their lives. 120 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: Is an admission. As the opposition says that you are 121 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 1: failing when it comes to crime. 122 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 3: No, and the data doesn't bear that out to be 123 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 3: true either. This is just another tool in the toolkit 124 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 3: for people. It's about giving power back for people to 125 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 3: take control of their lives. I mean, We've particularly had 126 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 3: women coming to us saying I'm going to start going 127 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 3: for my walks again in the afternoon, you know, reclaiming 128 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 3: public spaces. And it's not because they'll probably ever use it, Katie, 129 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 3: and that's the whole point, but even the peace of 130 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 3: mind of having it is a powerful, powerful thing for 131 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 3: people to be able to get back out into our community. 132 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 1: Lea, You've got quite a few groups at the moment 133 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: really saying that you are failing on crime. I mean, 134 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: the opposition obviously saying that the changes that you've made, 135 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: the legislative changes, are not making an impact when it 136 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: comes to the minimization of crime. Last week on the show, 137 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: we were joined by naja's CEO and also their chair 138 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: now Teresa the Cheer says a lot of Aboriginal people 139 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: are fearful of police following these second death in custody 140 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: and that you need to show some leadership and reassure 141 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: territorians that police are there to serve and protect. Now, 142 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: she and the acting CEO, Anthony Bevn are calling for 143 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: a forum to fix the justice system crisis, bringing together 144 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 1: the Northern Territory and the Commonwealth governments, police, Attorney General, 145 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: Corrections and Aboriginal leaders. Is this something that you feel 146 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: needs to happen. 147 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 3: No, Katie, and quite honestly, I mean NAJA has had 148 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 3: its own problems for a very long time. I think 149 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 3: they should focus their energy on getting themselves back on 150 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 3: track and not trying to do my job. I've been 151 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 3: elected for a really important reason, and that's to reduce 152 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 3: crime and restore community safety. After a decade of labor 153 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 3: weakening the laws and simply not holding people accountable for 154 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 3: their crimes. 155 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 2: Now the data. 156 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 3: Shows very clearly we've put an additional I think six 157 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 3: hundred people in prison since August, we've built another five 158 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 3: hundred and fifty beds. And look, that's it's sad. It's 159 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 3: absolutely sad that it gets to that point. But these 160 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 3: are people who should not be on the street because 161 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 3: they perpetrate crimes on innocent people, and so what we've 162 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 3: got to do is deal with that point and defending 163 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 3: that's happening right now. We've also got to invest in 164 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 3: the root causes of crime, which includes the measures we've 165 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 3: done on holding parents accountable to get kids to schools, 166 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 3: circuit breaker. You know, our remand Center for Youth in 167 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 3: Alice Springs is now open, boot camp on its way. 168 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 3: So there's plenty of work being done over the last 169 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 3: ten months and there's much more to come. 170 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. They I mean, they did say that your tough 171 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: on crime approach in locking people up isn't reducing crime. 172 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: They reckon that a remand center is needed and court 173 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: matters need to be dealt with faster. Do you feel 174 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: as though the legislative changes that you're making are working 175 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: at this point? 176 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, we really do. 177 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 3: And I don't know how NAGER can say they're not 178 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 3: reducing crime. We're seeing massive reductions in property crime, robbery. 179 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: You know what kind of reductions are we talking? 180 00:07:58,040 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 3: Oh, I don't have them on the MI Katie, but 181 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 3: I know over the particularly all of the major centers 182 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 3: except for Tenant Creek last month had improvements on property crime. 183 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 3: So they were different, whether it was Darwin, Caterine, Alys, etc. 184 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 3: And Tenant Crete was the exception there. 185 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 2: But you know, there's plenty more work to do. 186 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 3: There's no one thing we've got to undress, you know, 187 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 3: address a lot of issues that we've inherited, and we're 188 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 3: just systematically working through that. 189 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: One of the things they did raise that I think 190 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: is a worry is the number of people that are 191 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: on remand and then when people are on romand not 192 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: actually you know, undertaking different programs to try and rehabilitate 193 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: and in some cases on ramand for an extended period 194 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,199 Speaker 1: of time, you know, particularly if you're waiting to go 195 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: through the Supreme Court for example, like it's about a year. 196 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, even yeah, it's a very long time. 197 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 3: And again this is where the work we've done to 198 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 3: invest in legal aid. 199 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 2: You know, we've short up funding for legal aid. 200 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 3: We've put our public prosecutors into permanent roles so that 201 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 3: we've got it's the other system's courts. I mean, our 202 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 3: one point five billion dollar investment this year in this 203 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 3: budget goes to police corrections and courts, and that's something 204 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 3: Labor wasn't doing. We've established the Tiger Task Force to 205 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 3: be looking at those remand numbers. They have about three 206 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 3: hundred cases they're looking at right now to see if 207 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 3: there can be early resolution. So again, these remind numbers 208 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 3: aren't because of our laws. They existed when we came 209 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,559 Speaker 3: to government because labor was not investing in corrections or courts. 210 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 3: So we've done both, plus invest in our police and 211 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 3: have new measures quickly. 212 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: Do you think you're going to start to see a 213 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: change or a real speed way we have people on. 214 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 2: Remind Yeah, we have. There's been a tiny drop. 215 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 3: I don't know the percentage, but I was speaking with 216 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 3: the Attorney General on Saturday about it, and so there 217 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 3: has been a tiny drop. And I know that the 218 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 3: Tiger Task Force have nearly moved through those three hundred 219 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 3: cases and a lot of those have gone to early resolution, 220 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 3: which is a good result. We don't need things cloging 221 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 3: up the system if they don't have to. 222 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 2: So yeah, we've got some good positive movement. 223 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: Is it time to look at a remand center? 224 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 3: I don't think we need a remand center necessarily. I 225 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 3: mean it's just a different place to house the same people. 226 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 2: We're managing really well. 227 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 3: I mean, even at its peak, I think it was 228 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 3: last week we had about thirty prisoners in the watchhouse, 229 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 3: so the numbers are really under. 230 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 2: Control at the moment. 231 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 3: It's still putting, you know, huge pressure in our corrections 232 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 3: and police workforce. I'm not trying to sugarcoat that, but 233 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 3: it's not like what the pressures we were seeing in 234 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 3: December January. 235 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 1: Do you think those some changes could potentially be made 236 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: so that people can do programs while they're on remand 237 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: or is that something that's difficult to you know, to 238 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: push forward with because they're not found guilty yet. 239 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, they are allowed to, but they have to volunteer 240 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 2: for it. 241 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's the problem. So we are actually looking 242 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 3: at whether or not we can mandate people on remand. 243 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 3: But of course, when they're on their remand, you know, 244 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 3: they haven't had their day in court yet, so it's 245 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 3: slightly more complicated. 246 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,439 Speaker 2: But we hard trying to chug through that. 247 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: NADA and they sort of said that, you know, yes, 248 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: that obviously consumed when someone is on remand and I'm 249 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: putting words in their mouths now, But but you know, 250 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: could it be, as you've touched on the when you're 251 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: talking about mandating it, could it be you know, when 252 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: it's things like a rehabilitation program potentially or domestic violence. 253 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, and courts are able to sentence people to programs 254 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 3: as well. So that's all in the mix right now, 255 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 3: trying to get to the bottom of some of those 256 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 3: mechanical processes. But we definitely need more prison beds, whether 257 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,079 Speaker 3: it's a remand center or an actual facility where you know, 258 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 3: remand center is not part of our corrections master plan, 259 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 3: and our master plan has been working really well well. 260 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: And you need money for all of these things, sure 261 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: you do. 262 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 3: But you know again, you know, I know people don't 263 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 3: necessarily want money spend on prisons, but at the same time, 264 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 3: you've got to have them. 265 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 2: So it's at catch twenty two. 266 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: Okay. There are still calls today for an independent inquiry 267 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: following the death in custody in Alice Springs. The ABC 268 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: this morning speaking to Thomas Mayo, who said letters are 269 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: going to be delivered to Parliament House calling for this 270 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: through justice not jails. I believe is an independent inquiry 271 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: going to happen. I mean, like I believe you've ruled 272 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: it out a couple of times. Does this change your 273 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: mind in any way? 274 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 3: Absolutely not, Katie, and it will be an independent inquiry 275 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 3: done by our wonderful police whose job it is to investigate. 276 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 2: And also by the coroner. 277 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 3: So all of these calls, all of this energy being 278 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 3: expended on the issue, could probably be poured into something 279 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,319 Speaker 3: more productive, because just like in any other jurisdiction, a 280 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 3: death in custody is investigated by that jurisdiction's police, and 281 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 3: I think, I mean Marian Scrimger of all people, the 282 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 3: member Filingiari, I think last week or the week before 283 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 3: was calling for the AFP. 284 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 2: To investigate instead. 285 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 3: And yet since then we've had an AFP death in 286 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 3: custody and guess who's investigating that. 287 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 2: The Northern Territory Police. 288 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 3: So I think a lot of this debate is absolutely 289 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,839 Speaker 3: politically fueled, and I think that is disgraceful. It undermines 290 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 3: confidence in our police when they do an excellent job 291 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 3: and are the very best people to do this, you know, 292 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 3: this important work, and so there will be no other 293 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 3: inquiry other than the ones that the law provides to happen. 294 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,319 Speaker 1: Now, speaking of the police, another issue which continues to 295 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: bubble along is the Police Association's calls for a pay 296 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: rise for officers. Nathan Finn joined me on the show 297 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 1: last week and said the attrition rate is still the 298 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: worst in the country. Morale is rock bottom, and our 299 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: officers are walking out the door, and that police are 300 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 1: feeling completely betrayed over this pay issue. Do you need 301 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: to just sit down with the association and sort this out. 302 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 3: Look, this is an association doing its job as part 303 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 3: of an eba, Katie. They've got a they've got a 304 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,719 Speaker 3: you know, lobby hard for a big as bigger pay 305 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 3: rise as they can get for their members. And I 306 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 3: get that, and you know I'm the I'm the collateral 307 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 3: damage in that politically, Katie. 308 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 2: And that's fine. 309 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 3: I get paid more though, of course they do. But 310 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 3: at the end of the day, you know, offers are 311 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 3: being put to NTPA. They have and yet put any 312 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 3: to the police. So you know that's a matter for 313 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 3: the NTPA. 314 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: Five percent, I believe is what they're after. 315 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, I believe so, and so OCP continued to negotiate 316 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 3: in good faith and put forward offers. They're also ask NTPA, 317 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 3: you know what they're looking for. 318 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 2: So all of that is to want it to go 319 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 2: under the bridge. 320 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: How much would it cost to give them the five 321 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: percent pay increase and not change the housing. 322 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 3: I don't know, Katie, but I imagine OCPE would you know, 323 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 3: be looking at all of those factors, and you know 324 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 3: it's all on the table. So we want the police 325 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 3: to get a great pay rise and this is all 326 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 3: part of negotiations. But you know, our attrition rate is 327 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 3: down to four point eight five percent, Katie, from eight 328 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 3: percent last year, nine percent the year before, and ten 329 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 3: percent the year before that. So things are going really 330 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 3: really well. To draw attrition to four point eight five 331 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 3: is something we're very proud of. And we continue to 332 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 3: back our police in And. 333 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: You can't deny though that, you know, we need to 334 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: be competitive with other states. 335 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 2: We have the best paid police in the country. We 336 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 2: have the best paid police. 337 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: I know you've said that, but then we had some 338 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: people contacting us on Friday last week saying that is 339 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: not the case. 340 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 2: Yep. 341 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 3: Well, all of the data I've got says that it 342 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 3: is across all ranks. I think there's except one, and 343 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 3: we're like second or third. I can't remember which rank 344 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 3: might be, my guest, but yeah, so, and we want 345 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 3: to continue that though, right. We want to be competitive. 346 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 3: We want our territory police to stay. We want to 347 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 3: reward them with a good pay rise and that's the negotiating. 348 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: Well, look, they do a phenomenal job, and we are 349 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: going to be catching up with a police officer in 350 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: just a moment, Detective Senior Sergeant Toby Wilson, about the 351 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 1: indecent assaults. So we will just forge your head quite quickly. 352 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 2: Chief, Yes, no worries. 353 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about someone who is 354 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: reportedly still being paid almost two months after he announced 355 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: his resignation. That's the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries Chief 356 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: executive Andrew Kirkman. He is reportedly going to continue to 357 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: be paid by territory taxpayers until August, when his contract 358 00:15:59,040 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: was due to expire. 359 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 2: What is the goal here, Yeah, that's my understanding as well, Katie. 360 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: So I thought it resigned. 361 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 3: So he resigned from his role at Agriculture and Fisheries, 362 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 3: but his contracts still continue. So he's on leave and 363 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 3: so until the leave runs out and the contract runs out, 364 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 3: he'll be paying what kind of leave. I don't know, Katie, 365 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 3: but I think he notified staff in April and then 366 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 3: he's been on leave since then. 367 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: So he's I mean, do you see that as as appropriate? 368 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 2: Well, it's just how the contracts works. 369 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 3: There's a requirement for government contracts that you either have 370 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 3: your your contract renegotiated six months out or it's not renewed, 371 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 3: so you have to give that six months notice. So 372 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 3: he's been given that notice and has made the decision 373 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 3: to be on leave, and so would it. 374 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: Be a correct assumption to make that you know that 375 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: after giving that notice he decided, well, you know, you 376 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: guys don't want me anymore. I'm just gonna take leave. 377 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 2: But if you have leave, you can take leave. 378 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 3: So I think you know, it's you know what I 379 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 3: mean like when you know, if you're a long term 380 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 3: public servant, them would have her crued. Gosh, weeks and 381 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 3: weeks and weeks, if not months. So come August that 382 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 3: contract ends and that's the end of it, all. 383 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 1: Right, very quickly, we know that there is also going 384 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,479 Speaker 1: to be an announcement today around the Approvals Fast Tracked 385 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: Task Force. What's happening today on this? 386 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, so we've received the final report. This is twenty 387 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 3: two recommendations. So government is now working through those recommendations 388 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 3: and once we've made decisions, we will publish the report 389 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 3: with what actions we're going to take. This is about 390 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 3: making it easier to do business in the territory, so 391 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 3: it's been a great piece of work. I just really 392 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 3: want to thank all of the business people and industry 393 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 3: leaders who put their hand up and we're really exciting 394 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 3: about making the territory an easier place to live, work, 395 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 3: visit and invest. 396 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: All right, Chief Minister Leah Finocchiaro, we better leave it there. 397 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: We've got a lineup of guests. Thank you. As always, 398 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: we'll catch up with you very soon. 399 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 2: Thank you, every thank you.