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Speaker 1: Now the peak body for Australian universities is in the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory this week. It's part of a national tour

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Speaker 1: ahead of those caps being imposed on international student numbers,

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Speaker 1: which is set to take effect next year. The Federal

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Speaker 1: Government's cap aims to reduce student visas in a bid

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Speaker 1: to curb net migration levels and return them to pre

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Speaker 1: pandemic levels. But it is going to be a huge

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Speaker 1: impost for universities, forcing them to cut costs, to claw

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Speaker 1: back hundreds of millions of dollars lost in overseas student

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Speaker 1: fees and in places like Regional Australia and places like

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Speaker 1: DA when we know that it is going to have

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Speaker 1: quite a big impact. It's something that we've spoken to

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Speaker 1: Charles Dalwen University's Vice chancellor about previously, particularly after investing

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Speaker 1: in the new city campus. Now joining us in the

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Speaker 1: studio is Universities Australia CEO Luke Sheh. Good morning to you, Luke,

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Speaker 1: Good to be with you. Great to have you in

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Speaker 1: the studio. Now tell me how big an impact are

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Speaker 1: these caps on international students having on universities, particularly those

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Speaker 1: like Charles Darwin University.

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Speaker 2: Well, I've been so privileged to get around to all

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Speaker 2: of the main university campuses in the year that I've

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Speaker 2: had this job, and what a beautiful investment. The new

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Speaker 2: city campus is not only for the university but for

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Speaker 2: the people of the territory. And we know that many universities,

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Speaker 2: including CDU, are doing it really tough at the moment,

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Speaker 2: not just because of the proposed caps, but because of

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Speaker 2: ten years of structural underfunding from the Commwealth government and

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Speaker 2: since just before Christmas last year there was a sledgehammer

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Speaker 2: taken to student visa processing by the previous Minister for

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Speaker 2: Home Affairs. That's doing real damage already. So the proposed

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Speaker 2: caps is just one other way to do damage to

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Speaker 2: this sector, but we know it's already doing a lot

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Speaker 2: of damage already. The beautiful building that is here in

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Speaker 2: and Darwin City is predicated upon having lots of international

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Speaker 2: students come get an education, experience and invest in the territory.

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Speaker 2: We know you need lots more skilled people up north

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Speaker 2: and I mean, coming here again for the first time

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Speaker 2: in a while, it reminds me of why I shouldn't

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Speaker 2: live in the south because it's so beautiful up here.

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Speaker 2: But you know, we know that the university could drive

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Speaker 2: that population and skilled worker problem. Will solve that problem,

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Speaker 2: I should say, And the government, federal government, and both sides, frankly,

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Speaker 2: in an election year, both labor and Liberal are having

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Speaker 2: a phony war and they want to go harder and

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Speaker 2: faster on international students.

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Speaker 1: And I think that what gets forgotten in this discussion

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Speaker 1: so very often, like we speak about it quite often

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Speaker 1: in a lot of different ways, not just around universities,

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Speaker 1: but also when you talk about different you know, different

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Speaker 1: skilled worker areas of shortage. That regional Australia is very

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Speaker 1: different to say, some of our other major capital cities.

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Speaker 1: You know those cuts for some of the other major

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Speaker 1: capital cities. I know that they're still having an impact.

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Speaker 1: But in places like Darwin, in places like rock Campton,

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Speaker 1: in places like even Canberra, it has a massive impulse

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Speaker 1: not only on the university but also on filling other

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Speaker 1: jobs that those Uni students have when they come and

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Speaker 1: live here.

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Speaker 2: Well, absolutely we know international students drive other sectors. At

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Speaker 2: least at least a third, if not a half, of

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Speaker 2: our tourism industry is driven by the families of international

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Speaker 2: students that come to visit their children and their friends

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Speaker 2: and family, and they stay for a long time. We

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Speaker 2: know international parents in particular drive regional tourism much more

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Speaker 2: so than other groups, and so there's a really strong

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Speaker 2: interdependency on international education and those important critical sectors and

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Speaker 2: it's driving economic growth. The National Australian Bank told us

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Speaker 2: that last year alone, own half of the GDP growth

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Speaker 2: in Australian's economy came from international education. So it puzzles

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Speaker 2: me a bit that both sides of politics are trying

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Speaker 2: to drive it down rather than up. Why are they

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Speaker 2: trying to wreck it not build it? It seems to

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Speaker 2: be economically reckless and it's really going to undermine the

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Speaker 2: ability for places like CDU to deliver not only for

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Speaker 2: international students but the Australian students who really need those

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Speaker 2: high skilled, high skilled degrees that they for the territory

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Speaker 2: and for across Australia.

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Speaker 1: Now look, I understand that you've met with Charles Darwin UNI.

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Speaker 1: We'd spoken to Professor Scott Bowman on the show just

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Speaker 1: last week I believe it was, and he'd talked about

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Speaker 1: these cuts and the impact that it's going to have

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Speaker 1: on the university. What did CD you have to say

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Speaker 1: to you in those meetings you've had, well c to.

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Speaker 2: You is doing a really fantastic job. We know that

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Speaker 2: they deliver right across your wonderful territory. It's a big territory.

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Speaker 2: I come from Victoria, which seems really tiny and compared

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Speaker 2: to the NT and they do a lot with very

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Speaker 2: little resources and international students and the growth that they

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Speaker 2: expected is designed to really turbocharge their mission for the territory,

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Speaker 2: including those beautiful buildings and helping many people across the

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Speaker 2: territory get the education they need, encourage you know, Aboriginal

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Speaker 2: and Torres Strait Islander folk to go to UNI and

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Speaker 2: TAFE importantly because it's a dual sector university. And so

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Speaker 2: we were having conversations about how CDU can work within the

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Speaker 2: current funding environment that camera's delivering and you know, frankly

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Speaker 2: they're under pressure and you're alluded to job losses across

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Speaker 2: the country. I don't want to see any job losses.

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Speaker 2: We know that. You know, university jobs are fantastic jobs

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Speaker 2: for communities. They support families and communities, but not only

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Speaker 2: universities directly employing people. The revenues we get from international

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Speaker 2: students flow through to small and medium enterprises, to bars

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Speaker 2: and restaurants and hotels and tourism destinations, other businesses, and

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Speaker 2: I really think both sides of politics need to think

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Speaker 2: about what damage they're doing to local economies in an

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Speaker 2: election year.

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Speaker 1: So we're too from here really with this discussion. I mean,

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Speaker 1: with these caps, it's I'm sure it's not the only,

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Speaker 1: you know, the only issue that you're trying to deal

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Speaker 1: with with with politicians and with both sides of politics

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Speaker 1: on that national stage. But we're too from here, Like,

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Speaker 1: how do we sort of try to work through this

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Speaker 1: issue because the government does seem quite intent on forging aheat.

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Speaker 2: Well, I've said for a couple of months now that

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Speaker 2: this is a war on migration and it's a political

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Speaker 2: war on migration, and they're misrepresenting the role of international

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Speaker 2: students in that in that issue. We want to see

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Speaker 2: both sides of politics build the higher education and tertiary

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Speaker 2: education sector for Australia. You know, places like the ENTI

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Speaker 2: he need skilled workers to drive your economic future. You

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Speaker 2: can't do it with our universities. So what we want

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Speaker 2: to see is a fair and income commitment from the

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Speaker 2: Labor Party and the NP or the COLP at a

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Speaker 2: federal level to invest in these important institutions to grow

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Speaker 2: our economy if we want to do the big things

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Speaker 2: that Australia needs to do, like a Future Made in Australia,

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Speaker 2: energy transition, create new jobs, have teacher classroom ready teachers,

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Speaker 2: nurses that are ready to go and help our health system.

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Speaker 2: We need universities, so international students are important part of that.

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Speaker 2: They not only fund it, but they help our classroom

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Speaker 2: experience be more global. They help us reach out to

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Speaker 2: the outside world and make friends. We've had millions of

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Speaker 2: students from across the world come to our fantastic universities

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Speaker 2: like CDU. They invest in Darwin and they invest in

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Speaker 2: the NT and I want to see that continue because

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Speaker 2: it's good for Australia and Australians.

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Speaker 1: Well, Luke sheihe Universities Australia is CEO. Good to speak

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Speaker 1: with you this morning. Thanks so much for joining us

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Speaker 1: in the studio.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me