1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: Good morning and welcome to this special episode of The 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,399 Speaker 1: Daily Os. It's Thursday, the twelfth of October. I'm Zara 3 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: and every day this week we're bringing you The Voice Explained, 4 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: a series running right up until the referendum on Saturday. 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 1: If you're listening to the podcast for the first time 6 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: this week, I really recommend starting with part one, where 7 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: we go back and look at where the idea for 8 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: the Voice came from. Today here's TDA journalist Tom Crowley's 9 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,520 Speaker 1: conversation with the Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi. 10 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 2: Prime Minister, thank you for speaking to The Daily OS. 11 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 2: Good to have a chat again. I want to start 12 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 2: by throwing the floor open to you in less than 13 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 2: a minute. Why should Australians fte yes on October fourteen? 14 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 3: They shall vote yes because this is unfinished business to 15 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 3: recognize indigenous austraints in our constitution, give them an advisory 16 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 3: body so that we can listen to them to get 17 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 3: better results. 18 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: This is something that you've a lot of time and 19 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 2: energy in. It was the first thing that you mentioned 20 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 2: on election night in your speech. Can I get you 21 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 2: to take me back to that night? Why did you 22 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 2: start there and why was it so significant to. 23 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 3: You, because it's important that we acknowledge the traditional owners 24 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 3: of the land here. We share this continent with the 25 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 3: oldest continuous culture on earth. That is a source of 26 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 3: great pride and it was important that we actually make 27 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 3: that next step and give Australians the opportunity to vote. 28 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 2: So two things that you've often emphasized here are the 29 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: symbolic and the practical, and the combination of those two. 30 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 2: If I can start with the symbolic, what do you 31 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 2: think that a yes vote would do to take the 32 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 2: country forward? 33 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 3: It would bring it together in that spirit of reconciliation, 34 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 3: just like the Apology to Stolen Generations did that was resisted. 35 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 3: There were a whole range of fear campaigns run about 36 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 3: that too. When Kevin Rudd stood on the floor of 37 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 3: the Parliament and delivered the apology, school students watched it 38 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 3: at school, people watched it in their tens of thousands 39 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 3: at live sites around the country and it was a 40 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 3: moment of national unity. It was a moment which brought 41 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 3: the country together and didn't have any downside. And this 42 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 3: will be similar. This is Indigenous Australians with a great 43 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 3: spirit of generosity, with a hand out stretched of friendship, 44 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 3: just asking their fellow Australians to walk just a few 45 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 3: steps to join with them in advancing this issue. And 46 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 3: as Paul Kelly sings, if not now, when and if 47 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 3: not us then who? 48 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 2: So on the practical side of things, you've been in 49 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 2: politics for a very long time, and long enough I'm 50 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: sure to see a lot of the failures in indigenous policy. 51 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 2: If I can put it this way, how do you 52 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 2: see a voice helping you to do your job better. 53 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 3: By giving us that direct advice and by being a 54 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 3: voice to Canberra from local communities. And what I've seen 55 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,679 Speaker 3: over a long period of time is that when programs 56 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 3: have been effective and they've had that indigenous agency or 57 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 3: ownership over the process, they haven't been bureaucrats in Canberra, 58 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 3: or politicians in Canberra for that matter, deciding four people 59 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 3: and then with the best of intentions, trying to implement it. 60 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 3: And that is why a voice will, I believe, result 61 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 3: in much better practical outcomes than if someone's sitting in 62 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 3: an office hundreds or indeed thousands of kilometers away is 63 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 3: making decisions. 64 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 2: Now, it's been a fairly bruising campaign in some ways. 65 00:03:58,240 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 2: If you go back a year ago, there was very 66 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 2: wrong supporting polls for the Voice and it has dropped 67 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 2: off dramatically. Why, in your view has the No campaign 68 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 2: been so successful. 69 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 3: Well, No campaign have been talking about everything, but what 70 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 3: the question is? The questions very clear that Australians will 71 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 3: be voting on on October fourteen. It's just in recognition 72 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 3: of Abraidge and Toe Straight Island of Peoples as Australia's 73 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 3: first People's pretty straightforward. That's the words that are there. 74 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 3: And then it says that there shall be a body 75 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 3: to be called the Aberige and Toe as Straight Alan 76 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 3: of Voice. So the what then, what will it do? 77 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 3: Says it may give advice to Parliament and Executive Government 78 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 3: on matters affecting Aberigeal and Toe Straight Islander people. Again 79 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 3: pretty clear. And then third, really importantly, the last dot 80 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 3: point is emphasized as supremacy of the Parliament. So it's 81 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 3: not changing the way our parliament functions all the way 82 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 3: government functions. It just says that the Parliament shall make 83 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 3: laws about the composition and functions and procedures of the Voice. 84 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 3: So that's important because what we're talking about here is 85 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 3: an advisory group that will have the power of its ideas, 86 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 3: but won't have the power of VETO, won't have the 87 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 3: power to fund programs, it won't be a funding body. 88 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 3: And that's why there's nothing to fear here. That's why 89 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 3: this is such a positive, generous proposal from Indigenous Australians 90 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 3: and why I believe Australians will vote yes. 91 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 2: But it does remain the case that a lot of 92 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 2: people are interested in details that go beyond what you've 93 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 2: just outlined there, and in particular about the bill that 94 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 2: you would seek to legislate after a referendum, which you 95 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 2: haven't released. If there is nothing to fear in that bill, 96 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: what harm could there be from releasing that and answering 97 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 2: all those questions now. 98 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 3: Because it's not my bill, it's a Parliament's bill the Parliament. 99 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 2: But the Government is likely to say to Juici. 100 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 3: Bild, no, the Parliament will do that and will work 101 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 3: across the parliament, work with Indigenous Australians. The Constitution says, 102 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 3: and there have been changes in the nineteen forties to 103 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 3: give Parliament the right to make laws to give social 104 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 3: security payments and family payments, various payments that now people 105 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 3: take for granted that weren't available before then. It doesn't 106 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 3: say the pension shall be how much percentage of the 107 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 3: average weekly wage. It doesn't say who will be eligible 108 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 3: for single parenting payment. It doesn't do that detail. That's 109 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:46,119 Speaker 3: true legislation. All it does a constitution is provide for 110 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 3: the power if you like for that to happen. It 111 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 3: says we'll have a defense force, doesn't say how many 112 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 3: people will be in. It doesn't say how many tanks 113 00:06:54,560 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 3: Australias shall have or what planes the air force should flow. 114 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 3: And so this is no different. It is just giving 115 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 3: that constitutional enstriment that there should be an advisory body. 116 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 2: That's all it does. 117 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 3: It then is importantly up to the Parliament and it 118 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 3: will change over time as it should, as do other laws. 119 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 2: Do you regret that you were nable to get bipartisan 120 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 2: support for this referendum? No referendum succeeded without that before. 121 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 3: It's unfortunate. I went out of my way to try 122 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 3: to do that. Peter Dutton of course walked out on 123 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 3: the apology. He said earlier this year that he regretted 124 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 3: doing that. He acknowledged that there was no downside. This 125 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 3: will be no downside from a yes vote in this referendum, 126 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 3: just an upside, no one will lose anything. Just like 127 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 3: before marriage equality, you might recall people being told that 128 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 3: existing marriages would be undermined. 129 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 2: Well, that hasn't happened. 130 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 3: The fear campaign was not valid, and the fear campaign 131 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 3: here is not valid. No nation has ever been made 132 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 3: stronger more unified by fear. 133 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: I want to come back to that question of upside 134 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 2: because there are some people who are concerned that the 135 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 2: fact that the voice doesn't have a veto, the voice 136 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 2: doesn't have any powers, means that in the end it 137 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 2: may not really be able to achieve much. Aren't we, 138 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 2: in the end, just relying on politicians once again to listen, 139 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 2: And how can we expect anything to change if they 140 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 2: haven't listened before. 141 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 3: Well, politicians, of course make the laws in this country, 142 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 3: so it's true that we're not changing the way that 143 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 3: laws are written by elected representatives. But what we will 144 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 3: have is the opportunity to listen is a voice which 145 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 3: will be made up of Aboriginal toe Straight Islander people 146 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 3: that will be elected by Aboriginal Toros, straight Islander people. 147 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 3: We'll be able to speak for average and on Tyres 148 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 3: Strait Islander people. And even this debate itself some of 149 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 3: it has been very unfortunate and has caused trauma for people. 150 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 3: It's important to acknowledge that that has been the case. 151 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 3: But at the same time, it has provided a focus 152 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 3: on the issues of Indigenous disadvantage, on the gap which 153 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 3: is there, the eight year life expectancy gap, the fact 154 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 3: that an Indigenous young male today is more likely to 155 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 3: go to jail than to go to university, the fact 156 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 3: that an Indigenous young woman is more likely to die 157 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 3: in childbirth than a non Indigenous woman, the fact of incarceration, rates, health, housing, education, 158 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 3: the gap which is there. 159 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 2: So that has. 160 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 3: Provided a focus and unless we actually seized the moment 161 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 3: of saying we've been talking about this since John Howard 162 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 3: went to the two thousand and seven election promising a 163 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 3: referendum on constitutional recognition of Indigenous Australians. In his first 164 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 3: eighteen months after that election. That was what he sought 165 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 3: a mandate for. We've been talking about this for a 166 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 3: long time. It is important that we take this opportunity 167 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 3: to get this done now. The process to establish what 168 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 3: recognition would look like wasn't established by me or by 169 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 3: the Labor government. It was established by Tony Abbott and 170 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 3: Bill Shorten. Back after the Abbott government was elected, set 171 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 3: up a committee and then they had a process to 172 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 3: hear back from Indigenous Australians about what recognition would look 173 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 3: like and that led to the ULARUS Statement from the 174 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 3: Heart in two thousand and seventeen. 175 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 2: So I mean you talk there about what Peter Dutton 176 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 2: would do in the event of a no vote. What 177 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 2: about you? If we wake up on October the fifteenth 178 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 2: then it is a no. Is that something you'll take 179 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 2: personal responsibility for? What will the path forward look like. 180 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 3: I've given Australians the opportunity to have their say and 181 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 3: I'm very hopeful and I'm optimistic that Australians will vote yes. 182 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 3: I'm focused on securing that whilst doing everything else that 183 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 3: you've got to do it. It is important I think 184 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 3: that after such a long period of time of being 185 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 3: promised to vote, that Australians will get the opportunity to 186 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 3: lift our whole country up. 187 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 2: Pro minise to thank you for your time, Thanks very. 188 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: Much, thanks for listening to this special episode of The 189 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: Daily Oz. If you learn something from today's episode, you 190 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: can show your support by sending this to a friend 191 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 1: to keep the conversation going. We'll be back with one 192 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: final episode of the voice explained tomorrow. Until then, have 193 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: a good day.