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Speaker 1: You're listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty. Now.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that you will recall about a month ago

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister referring to the teals and trolls as

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Speaker 1: she presented her speech to the National Press Club about

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory's energy future and the Middle Arm development. Well,

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Speaker 1: it seems there's going to be some additional scrutiny on

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Speaker 1: that project. A Senate inquiry into the planned development has

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Speaker 1: been established after being voted down twice previously by the

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Speaker 1: federal government. Now joining me on the line is the

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Speaker 1: executive director of the Environment Center here in the Northern Territory,

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Speaker 1: Kirsty Howie. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie and Hearty listener.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time today. Now, Kirsty, what

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Speaker 1: was your reaction to the announcement yesterday.

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Speaker 2: Look, we welcome this decision with open arms. We think

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Speaker 2: that this particular project deserves the highest level of scrutiny,

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Speaker 2: and it's been shrouded in secrecy and minding controversy from

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Speaker 2: the get go. And it's entirely appropriate that when we

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Speaker 2: have one point five billion dollars of tax payer money

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Speaker 2: on the table, that it's scrutinized by the Australian Parliament.

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Speaker 1: Now from your understanding, what exactly is it going to

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Speaker 1: look into?

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Speaker 2: We believe that the terms of reference will be pretty

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Speaker 2: wide ranging and look at the circumstances in which the

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Speaker 2: one point five billion dollars was committed, some of the

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Speaker 2: environmental impacts which we're particularly concerned about, and so are

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Speaker 2: a range of doctors and other people in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: It will look into the economics of the projects, because

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Speaker 2: we know, and Territorians know better than anyone, that often

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Speaker 2: we have wide elephants that don't ever see the light

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Speaker 2: of day, and so it should be quite broad ranging

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Speaker 2: and should be something that Territorians welcome, so that we're

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Speaker 2: not just fared lines by the government without truly understanding

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Speaker 2: what's been put on the table and what the impacts

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Speaker 2: might be.

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Speaker 1: Kirsty, do you that speech that the Chief Minister delivered

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Speaker 1: at the National Press Club was what sort of antagonized

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Speaker 1: this situation and led to maybe some of those in

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Speaker 1: the Senate thinking all right, we need to have a

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Speaker 1: closer look here.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think it's spectacularly backfired. It's not okay to

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Speaker 2: call people who oppose projects or question them on reasonable

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Speaker 2: grounds trolls, and I wouldn't be surprised if that particular

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Speaker 2: speech has led to people's ears being pricked up in

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Speaker 2: Canberra and thinking, well, maybe we need to look at

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Speaker 2: this much more closely. Bearing in mind, and immediately after

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Speaker 2: that a bunch of doctors and parents from the Northern

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Speaker 2: Territory went down and asked for this inquiry and it

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Speaker 2: looks like those calls have been answered.

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Speaker 1: Now what do you say to the comments from the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory government there? I mean, they're promoting the Middle

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Speaker 1: Arm project as a lower missions manufacturing hub that is

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Speaker 1: going to focus on developing green hydrogen critical minerals and

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Speaker 1: carbon capture technology. Do you not believe that that's what

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Speaker 1: they're planning to do.

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Speaker 2: So we believe, and we think this is what is

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Speaker 2: borne out in the documents which we've had to drag

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Speaker 2: from the government kicking and screaming through freedom of information processes,

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Speaker 2: that what the government is doing is greenwashing this site

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Speaker 2: and emphasizing these kinds of industries which may or may

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Speaker 2: not occur on the site, when actually what is planned

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Speaker 2: is mass expansion of the fossil fuel industry and the

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Speaker 2: anchor tenant is Betloufraka Tamborin. Now, if that project goes

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Speaker 2: ahead in the Beatloo basin, and if their LNG export

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Speaker 2: hub goes ahead at Middle Arm, it'll be located less

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Speaker 2: than three kilometers from Palmerston, just over the road, just

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Speaker 2: over the Elizabeth River, from the Elizabeth riverboat ramp. It

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Speaker 2: will dwarf and tower over Palmerston, less than three kilometers

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Speaker 2: from Bellamack. And it's very very far from sustainable. It

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Speaker 2: is very very far from lower emissions. This is mass

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Speaker 2: expansion of the fossil fuel industry in the middle of

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Speaker 2: a climate crisis, which will have significant impacts on air

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Speaker 2: quality and on our harvests.

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Speaker 1: Kristy, what do you say to those people listening though,

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Speaker 1: who think that there needs to be, you know, a

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Speaker 1: transition period here and that we do need gas and

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Speaker 1: that it is you know, that it is actually required.

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Speaker 1: But they also want to see the creation of jobs

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Speaker 1: and industry in the territory.

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Speaker 2: So the line that gas is a transition fuel is

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Speaker 2: a gas industry talking point. The time for transition, if

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Speaker 2: it ever existed, has well and truly gone. You cannot

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Speaker 2: reduce emissions by increasing them, and that's what opening up

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Speaker 2: the Beatloo basin will do. We aren't opposed to jobs.

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Speaker 2: We encourage investment in jobs, particularly in renewables, in stabilizing

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Speaker 2: our grids, our electricity grids, in creating jobs that are

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Speaker 2: going to be good for Territorians in the long term.

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Speaker 2: And we don't think middle arm will do this. We

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Speaker 2: think it's a whole lot of rubbish.

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Speaker 1: Frankly, So how do you create those jobs if not

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Speaker 1: through middle Arm.

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Speaker 2: Well, we actually are in the process of developing a

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Speaker 2: report that will point to how seven thousand jobs we

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Speaker 2: believe can be created in the territory by investing in renewables,

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Speaker 2: and that's things like investing in a huge new battery

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Speaker 2: to stabilize the grid, ensuring that low income housing and

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Speaker 2: social housing has solar panels, investing in training so that

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Speaker 2: we can spearhead the development of skills, training and jobs

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Speaker 2: in this industry that's so sorely needed. We are the

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Speaker 2: sunniest jurisdiction in Australia and we should be harnessing this

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Speaker 2: power and investing in those kinds of industries rather than

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Speaker 2: yesterday's technology and yesterday's industry.

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Speaker 1: Just very quickly though, I mean, are you worried about

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Speaker 1: the stability of our power network given the fact that

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Speaker 1: we have got you know, we've got a solar farm

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Speaker 1: or a couple of solar farms that are sitting idle

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Speaker 1: at this point, unable to be turned on.

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Speaker 2: Oh look, it's absolutely ridiculous and it's a travesty to

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Speaker 2: be honest, that these solar farms haven't been connected to

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Speaker 2: the grid. We need urgent investment by our government and

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Speaker 2: by the federal government if needed, in the stability of

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Speaker 2: our grid so that we can cope with the peaks

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Speaker 2: and trials of demand and supply. And if we do that,

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Speaker 2: if we actually invest public money into that, then we

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Speaker 2: can have all kinds of industry. At the moment, it's

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Speaker 2: actually not possible with the grid as it stands to

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Speaker 2: have much additional manufacturing and industry at all.

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Speaker 1: Well, Kirsty Howie, I really appreciate your time this morning.

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Speaker 1: I know that you are incredibly busy this morning, so

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Speaker 1: I appreciate you taking the time to have a chat

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Speaker 1: with us. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Katie, and thanks to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. Kirsty Howie there, who is indeed the executive

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Speaker 1: director of the Environment Center here in the Northern Territory,