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Speaker 1: She's on the Money. She's on the Money.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast

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Speaker 2: for millennials who want financial freedom. Today we are talking

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Speaker 2: about power of attorneys, which, yes, sounds a little jargony

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Speaker 2: and intimidating, sounds fancy, real fancy, It does sound fancy.

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Speaker 2: By the end of this episode, we promise you'll know

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Speaker 2: exactly what a power of attorney is, why they're so

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Speaker 2: very important, and what happens if you don't have one.

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Speaker 2: My name is Georgia King, and joining me to help

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Speaker 2: shed a little light on what seems like a rather complex,

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Speaker 2: slash dry topic is, of course, financial as a victoria

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Speaker 2: divine fee. Let's start with the basics.

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Speaker 3: Is pretty dry, That is basic.

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Speaker 2: Let's be real, ah, what is the power of attorney?

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Speaker 1: All right?

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Speaker 3: So a power of attorney is a legal document. I

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Speaker 3: told you it was dry. But that legal document allows

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Speaker 3: a chosen person to make decisions and act on behalf

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Speaker 3: of you, a power of attorney. It could be put

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Speaker 3: in place for lots of different reasons. It could be

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Speaker 3: put in place for an aging or an ill person

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Speaker 3: who needs assistance, maybe because they don't have the ability

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Speaker 3: to make their own decisions. So think maybe Alzheimer's or

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Speaker 3: something along those lines where you go, ooh, you're going

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Speaker 3: to be significantly compromised when making decisions on your own.

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Speaker 3: Less dramatically, they might actually be put in place if

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Speaker 3: you need to go overseas really unexpectedly and you need

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Speaker 3: someone to look after your affairs. It doesn't mean you

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Speaker 3: have absolutely no control though that's a massive misconception. You

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Speaker 3: can still manage your assets and your decisions while your

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Speaker 3: power of attorney can do what you have authorized them

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Speaker 3: to do. So there's lots of different ways that you can,

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Speaker 3: I guess give them power. It's not an all or

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Speaker 3: nothing situation. It is also worth noting though, g. The

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Speaker 3: person you choose to look after your affairs is called

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Speaker 3: the attorney, and they have to agree to act on

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Speaker 3: your behalf. You can't just put that on them, like

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Speaker 3: I can't just turn around one day and be like,

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Speaker 3: g G, you're my power of attorney. Every single decision

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Speaker 3: your responsibility. Now by that we've actually have this, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you have to consent to that. You would have to

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Speaker 3: sign the documentation and go through that process.

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Speaker 2: Interesting, and we will talk about how to choose a

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Speaker 2: power of attorney soon. So maybe I would be the

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Speaker 2: dream candidate to be yours fee, but we will if.

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Speaker 3: There like a matchmaking process that we can go through

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Speaker 3: a blind your dream attorney, like it's better than.

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Speaker 2: The Bachelor exactly. Lord knows, that's getting maybe very true. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So when I was doing a little bit of reading

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Speaker 2: before the show, thanks becoming prepared girl. Well, I always do.

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Speaker 2: I like to, you know, kind of know what I'm

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Speaker 2: talking about the Google. So when I googled power of attorney,

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Speaker 2: there was a lot of kind of different stuff that

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Speaker 2: came up, and it would seem that there's more than

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Speaker 2: just one type of power of attorney. Can you kind

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Speaker 2: of run us through what the deal is?

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Speaker 3: Not many, if any? Actually that reference is completely irrelevant

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Speaker 3: and I'm sure Sam's not going to cut it out.

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Speaker 3: But Gking, you are absolutely correct. There are a number

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Speaker 3: of different types of attorney. General power of attorneys, enduring

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Speaker 3: power of attorneys, and medical power of attorneys are the

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Speaker 3: three main power of attorneys here in Victoria. It does

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Speaker 3: vary slightly from state to state, but this conversation should

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Speaker 3: give you a really good base level understanding. So first

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Speaker 3: things first, we've got medical power of attorney. This allows

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Speaker 3: your attorney the power to make medical decisions on your

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Speaker 3: behalf if you're unable to. However, it doesn't extend at

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Speaker 3: all to any other decisions like where you live or

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Speaker 3: what happens to your finances. The next is a general

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Speaker 3: power of attorney, and this grants somebody else the ability

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Speaker 3: to make financial and legal decisions on your behalf, so

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Speaker 3: again not medical power of attorney. Commonly, people would arrange

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Speaker 3: this if they're gonna move overseas and they need someone

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Speaker 3: to look after their assets or the house or something

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Speaker 3: while they're away. However, a general power of attorney does

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Speaker 3: collapse as soon as you lose the ability to make

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Speaker 3: your own decisions. So if you've lost your ability to

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Speaker 3: make a decision, they don't get it when you're not

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Speaker 3: in a situation where you can just make your own

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Speaker 3: educated decisions on a situation. So I feel like it's

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Speaker 3: really important to understand that that exists. However, an enduring

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Speaker 3: power of attorney. That's where the power of attorney actually

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Speaker 3: continues on if you find yourself in a position where

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Speaker 3: you're unable to make your own decisions when it comes

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Speaker 3: to financial and legal matters. So obviously we have medical

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Speaker 3: that's sitting over there. Then we have a power of attorney,

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Speaker 3: a general and an enduring, and you're able to make

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Speaker 3: the same decisions with a general and and enduring, but

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Speaker 3: one is going to cease if you become injured or

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Speaker 3: unable to make those decisions. Does that make sense?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, So basically in if during endures after the fact,

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Speaker 2: when you can no longer make your own decisions, and

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Speaker 2: general stops that when you reach that point, V That

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Speaker 2: leads me to my next question, which is when does

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Speaker 2: a power of attorney come into effect? I guess it's

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Speaker 2: going to be different depending on which of the above

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Speaker 2: we're talking about, But look.

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Speaker 3: It is so different, and it is a fickle conversation

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Speaker 3: to have, but essentially you choose. It's completely up to you.

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Speaker 3: It can be immediate, like you can nominate it and

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Speaker 3: then tomorrow, gee, you could take over all my affairs.

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Speaker 3: Should you consent to that, or you can nominate when

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Speaker 3: that happens, and you can request that. A power of

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Speaker 3: attorney comes into effect after an event or a particular

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Speaker 3: date or a particular occurrence like no longer having the

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Speaker 3: ability to make your own decisions. So this is a

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Speaker 3: conversation that I've historically had with clients who have parents

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Speaker 3: who do have really early onset dementia or do have

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Speaker 3: things where they completely have the ability still to make

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Speaker 3: their own decisions, and they want to set things up

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Speaker 3: so that they're completely in control. And it's kind of

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Speaker 3: a way of really continuing that control when you're in

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Speaker 3: a position where you're not in control of your own

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Speaker 3: personal body. If that you can set the rules, like

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Speaker 3: you could set it up and say, all right, well,

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Speaker 3: these are the things that my power of attorney has

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Speaker 3: the ability to do. This is what I want them

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Speaker 3: to act on. This is how I want my affairs

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Speaker 3: to fall out, And George, you're in control of making

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Speaker 3: sure that happens. It's not necessarily saying, hey, George, so

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Speaker 3: when my dementia completely sets in and I'm unable to

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Speaker 3: make decisions anymore for myself, free for all, you can

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Speaker 3: do whatever you think is appropriate. Like I'm in the

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Speaker 3: driver's seat, I get to make the rules and make

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Speaker 3: the strategies, and it can be different for everybody. However,

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Speaker 3: it does need to be outlined in your power of

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Speaker 3: attorney forms, which we will get to and I won't

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Speaker 3: get into a deep dive right now, Okay, sorry, I'll

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Speaker 3: get ahead and you'll be like the flow.

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Speaker 2: Don this the Can you have more than one power

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Speaker 2: of attorney? Gee?

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Speaker 3: How many do you want?

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, maybe a couple. Don't want to upset

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Speaker 2: an of my friends, leave them out.

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Speaker 3: You can have a few. There's basically no limit. You

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Speaker 3: could have as many power of attorneys as you want

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Speaker 3: to have. However, many people believe less is probably the

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Speaker 3: preferred option, so it can allow for more quote seamless

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Speaker 3: decision makings I've written down here, and it can reduce

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Speaker 3: the potential for conflict in saying that. Gee, some people

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Speaker 3: do feel safer knowing that their affairs aren't just in

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Speaker 3: the hands of one person. It is such a personal decision.

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Speaker 3: And a good example of this is kids. So say

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Speaker 3: you're in a position where you can no longer make decisions.

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Speaker 3: But Aunt Sarah is really good with the kids. You

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Speaker 3: adore her, The kids adore her.

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Speaker 2: She's like the og.

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Speaker 3: Aren't you want the kids to go live with her?

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Speaker 3: God damn, Sarah, you are so bad with money. We

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Speaker 3: have a lot of it. So you can split those

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Speaker 3: true things up right, and Sarah could be in charge

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Speaker 3: of the kids and making decisions about their medically, except

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Speaker 3: she's not in charge of the finances because maybe you

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Speaker 3: just don't You don't want to put that on her

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Speaker 3: as well, and you might not tell Sarah that's the case.

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Speaker 3: But splitting it up could give you a bit more

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Speaker 3: peace of mind. If you're electing multiple people, though, you

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Speaker 3: need to make sure they are relatively mature and can

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Speaker 3: be trusted to work cooperatively if that word wants to gee,

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Speaker 3: I'm not even going to fix it if they can

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Speaker 3: work together on your behalf. So I think it's really

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Speaker 3: really important to pick people that you do trust. But again,

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Speaker 3: that doesn't mean you trust them in all aspects of life.

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Speaker 3: Maybe you adore them to look after your kids or

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Speaker 3: you personally because they are the best person to make

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Speaker 3: that decision, because when it comes to power of attorney,

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Speaker 3: it's not little things. If you don't have medical power

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Speaker 3: of attorney. I don't mean to get real morbid, real quickj.

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Speaker 3: But one of the decisions might be about life support,

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Speaker 3: and maybe that person is the right person to make

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Speaker 3: that really deep and personal decision that's in your personal

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Speaker 3: best interests. But you're like, oh, they don't know anything

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Speaker 3: about finances and paying the bills, and I wouldn't trust

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Speaker 3: them because they've had a gambling addiction in the past.

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Speaker 3: But they're my best friend and they know what's best

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Speaker 3: for me, do you know what I mean? Like, just

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Speaker 3: because someone is the perfect person for that might not

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Speaker 3: mean they're the perfect person for absolutely every aspect. That's okay,

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Speaker 3: that's why we have the ability to break it up.

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Speaker 2: Gotcha? Okay, that makes sense. So when I was thinking

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Speaker 2: about today's topic and kind of coming to understand what

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Speaker 2: a power of attorney actually is, naturally, my mind kind

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Speaker 2: of went to Britney's spears and her naturally but her

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Speaker 2: conservativeship because it's kind of a similar thing, but it's

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Speaker 2: obviously not the same. Can you kind of talk us

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Speaker 2: through the differences and what a conservativeship is compared to

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Speaker 2: a power of attorney?

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Speaker 3: So first things first, g Australia doesn't have conservative ships,

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Speaker 3: not a thing. We don't call them that, but instead

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Speaker 3: we actually have what's called guardianship or financial management laws

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Speaker 3: for each state and territory. Again completely different, but it

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Speaker 3: does come into that realm of power of attorney, so

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Speaker 3: we could look at them semi similarly. But when we're

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Speaker 3: talking about a conservativeship, because that's something we know, right, Like,

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Speaker 3: we've all hopefully followed this case pretty deeply and I

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Speaker 3: found it in ridibly interesting over the last few years

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Speaker 3: to see how it's falling out. A conservative ship is

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Speaker 3: much more drastic of an option than a power of attorney.

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Speaker 3: So a conservativeship, like what Brittany lived under for years

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Speaker 3: and years, is a court ordered arrangement which pretty much

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Speaker 3: strips that person of the ability to make any decisions

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Speaker 3: on their own literally, financially, medically, like Brittany wasn't allowed

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Speaker 3: to come off birth control because the conservative ship said that, no,

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Speaker 3: you can't come off it, Like, that's.

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Speaker 2: A bit cooked.

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Speaker 3: So she also wasn't allowed to get married, even though

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Speaker 3: she wanted to get married, and that was something that

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Speaker 3: she you know, obviously had expressed that she wanted historically.

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Speaker 3: To me, there's a lot in that. Again, just want

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Speaker 3: to reiterate that doesn't exist in Australia, but someone else

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Speaker 3: essentially chooses how they live, how their money is spent,

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Speaker 3: and how their assets are controlled, and multiple other personal decisions.

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Speaker 3: In saying that, I don't want to scare people off

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Speaker 3: and think that if you're setting this up, it's a

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Speaker 3: conservative ship, a power of attorney is elected by you personally,

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Speaker 3: and they only ever come into effect when required at

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Speaker 3: a time decided by you, which was not the case

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Speaker 3: for Britney at all in any way, shape or form.

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Speaker 3: Like she didn't have any choice over anything happening to her.

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Speaker 2: So horrible, isn't it? That whole thing?

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Speaker 3: Honestly, I cannot believe that that was a thing or

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Speaker 3: that even happened. Like, it blows my mind that someone's

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Speaker 3: rights can be stripped of them in that way. And

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's probably a lot to that story, George

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Speaker 3: that we don't understand, and that hasn't made it of

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Speaker 3: that other stuff, but oh my gosh, it actually terrifies me.

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Speaker 3: But no, that's not what a power of attorney is

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Speaker 3: here in Australia. A good call out or question or link.

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Speaker 2: Th thank you. Yeah, it just kind of came to mind.

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Speaker 2: But it's good to know that they are completely different

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Speaker 2: and that a power of attorney is a more positive

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Speaker 2: option and it is a decision you're making rather than

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Speaker 2: having any of your decisions strictural you How do you

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Speaker 2: know who to choose as your power of attorney? You

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Speaker 2: said before, they need to be mature, they need to

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Speaker 2: probably find out. If they're looking after your finances, they

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Speaker 2: need to love you, if they're looking after you medically.

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Speaker 2: How do we choose? I agree, it's kind of like

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Speaker 2: a dating profile. You're like, they have to be six

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Speaker 2: foot four. No, I mean Steve's not even six foot four,

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Speaker 2: so it clearly wasn't in my Tinder profile. But moving on,

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Speaker 2: how to choose someone? Obviously, it's completely up to personal preference.

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Speaker 2: You need to, George, choose somebody that you really trust,

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Speaker 2: you believe would always act in your best interests. Which, oh,

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Speaker 2: I sound like a really negative nancy here. It's harder

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Speaker 2: done than it is said. Like it's easy to say, Gee,

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Speaker 2: pick someone that has your best interests at heart. You're like, okay,

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Speaker 2: no problems, but like, oh do they like?

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Speaker 1: So?

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Speaker 3: Friendships sometimes change or fizzle out, or you know, become

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Speaker 3: something that they weren't. So I think it's really important

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Speaker 3: in the same way that I view relationships like personal relationships,

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Speaker 3: like what happens if we get a divorce? Like, as

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Speaker 3: you know, g I'm very excited. I'm planning my wedding,

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Speaker 3: which is far more expensive than I had ever anticipated.

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Speaker 3: But Steve and I, I would say madly in love

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Speaker 3: like I'm obsessed with him and I hope he's obsessed

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Speaker 3: with me, and I can't see a reality for us

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Speaker 3: where we're not together. But that doesn't mean I haven't

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Speaker 3: structured our lives in a way that we understand what

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Speaker 3: would happen if that happened. So I think that we

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Speaker 3: need to sometimes be a little bit dramatic and be

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Speaker 3: like Steve, what happens if we get a divorce, what

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Speaker 3: happens if we separate? And I mean we haven't had kids,

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Speaker 3: but we do have a dog. We've even had that

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Speaker 3: conversation of what happens to our pets, what happens to

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Speaker 3: our house, what would be the outcome? Because I never

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Speaker 3: like living in Limbon. It's not you having a negative

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Speaker 3: conversation because you're like, oh, like V said too, this

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Speaker 3: feels really flat. It's actually about empowering you so that

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Speaker 3: you always know what's going to happen in your options.

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Speaker 3: But again, picking somebody that you trust and hopefully that

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Speaker 3: will always always always act in your best interests. Legally,

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Speaker 3: they do have to be over the age of eighteen,

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Speaker 3: can be a family member, could be a friend, could

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Speaker 3: be anybody. Some people pick their accountants if it's a

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Speaker 3: financial power of attorney. Some people pick their lawyers. It

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Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily have to be a friend or family member.

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Speaker 3: If you don't trust them, you can actually nominate a professional,

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Speaker 3: which is kind of cool to understand and know. They

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Speaker 3: do have to want to do it and they do

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Speaker 3: have to accept that. As I said before, Gee can't

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Speaker 3: just force it on you. Also really important to consider

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Speaker 3: the impacts this could have on your family. If you

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Speaker 3: choose this individual, couldn't have any negative consequences. So an

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Speaker 3: example here is you, George, You're a bit older, you've

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Speaker 3: been married once, You've got a new wife, George, and

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Speaker 3: that new wife does not get along with your kids.

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Speaker 3: Are you going to nominate your wife as your power

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Speaker 3: of attorney? Is that something that if you're not there

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Speaker 3: to keep the peace? Is that a good idea? I

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Speaker 3: can't tell you the right or wrong answer in that situation.

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Speaker 3: It's just something you have to think about, and you

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Speaker 3: know there's no right or wrong answer. But we do

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Speaker 3: want to make sure that we are picking somebody that's

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Speaker 3: always going to have your best interests at heart. I

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Speaker 3: can't harp on about that the most, and then I'd

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Speaker 3: be looking for someone g who's pretty organized and able.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of responsibility when it comes to being

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Speaker 3: a power of attorney. So gee, I reckon you'd want

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Speaker 3: to choose someone who's equipped as well as trustworthy.

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Speaker 2: But that's just me, the dream combo, but the dream

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Speaker 2: combo which I am not a turnative, trust me but equipped. No.

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Speaker 3: I can't even get a whole podcast out without stuttering

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Speaker 3: over my words today. G.

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Speaker 2: What do you do, though, be in all seriousness, if

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Speaker 2: you don't have anyone in your life who is reliable

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Speaker 2: and trustworthy that you would trust with all of your

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Speaker 2: affairs and assets, can you? I guess before you said

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Speaker 2: you could choose an accountant or a lawyer. But what

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Speaker 2: do you do if you don't have an accountant or

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Speaker 2: a lawyer? G.

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Speaker 3: You're right, I did touch on this before. It obviously

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Speaker 3: doesn't have to be a friend or a family member.

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Speaker 3: And if you don't have an accountant that you want

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Speaker 3: to nominate, or financial advisor hint, hint, nudge, nudge, or

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Speaker 3: a lawyer that you really want to elect, then you

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Speaker 3: can actually elect that the public trustee looks after you.

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Speaker 3: So public trustee is a government department, and each state

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Speaker 3: and territory actually has their own and they offer heaps

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Speaker 3: of different services related to power of attorneys, the management

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Speaker 3: of trust funds and deceased estates and wills and stuff

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Speaker 3: like that. You can literally nominate them and they will

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Speaker 3: look after it in line with what you want and

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Speaker 3: what your expectations are. And that's kind of cool. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it is a lot less personal. But sometimes even if

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Speaker 3: you do have a friend or a family member that

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Speaker 3: you trust, maybe you don't want them looking after that

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Speaker 3: and fulfilling your wishes. It is completely up to you.

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Speaker 2: Interesting v Let's prespause there, but we will be back

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Speaker 2: after a very short break to discuss the process of

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Speaker 2: making a power of attorney, and we'll be chatting about

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Speaker 2: what happens if someone you love chooses a power of

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Speaker 2: attorney that you disagree with. Don't go anywhere, choose to

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Speaker 2: see straight back into it. Vikid, No, not Vickid.

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Speaker 3: How long am I going to have to rally against

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Speaker 3: the name VICKI d till I feel heard in this relationship?

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Speaker 2: Algia, mate, you need to prove loves it. It's who

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Speaker 2: loves Everyone calls you Vickid, vd V, the community, everyone,

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Speaker 2: we all talk about it.

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Speaker 3: Fine, you're not at least you're talking about, Yeah, exact.

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Speaker 3: I guess that's.

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Speaker 2: So what would happen if you had an accident? I

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Speaker 2: don't know what would happen, Jase, So you don't be

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Speaker 2: cheeky if you had an accident and you couldn't make

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Speaker 2: your own decisions that you hadn't elected a power of attorney.

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Speaker 2: So maybe you're like quite young and you just hadn't

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Speaker 2: thought about this like you were, well, I mean, you've

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Speaker 2: probably thought about it, but I haven't thought about it.

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Speaker 3: So what you don't have a power of attorney? I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I know I really should organize that, because I do

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Speaker 3: think it's incredibly important. But it's like the plumber who

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Speaker 3: always has a leaky tap, Like you know, I just

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Speaker 3: haven't sorted everything out yet, but it is at the

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Speaker 3: forefront of my mind. When were putting this episode together,

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Speaker 3: I was like, oh, Lordie, like, I probably do want

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Speaker 3: to put that together and organize all of that, because

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Speaker 3: if you do have an accident and you haven't allocated

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Speaker 3: or you know, highlighted a power of attorney and set

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Speaker 3: that up, you don't have actually get to choose the

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Speaker 3: person who is going to be making the decisions on

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Speaker 3: your behalf, which of course is not ideal. The other

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Speaker 3: possible negative is that you could be making things a

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Speaker 3: little bit more challenging for friends and family who are

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Speaker 3: trying really hard to figure out what's best for you.

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Speaker 3: So having a power of attorney actually streamlines that process,

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Speaker 3: and he's likely to reduce the potential for any family

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Speaker 3: conflicts that might arise from you being in an accident.

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Speaker 3: In Victoria, Vcat could potentially get involved and appoint someone

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Speaker 3: to help you. But again, if you've been in an

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Speaker 3: accident and you're not in a situation to make your

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Speaker 3: own decisions, are you in a situation where you would

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Speaker 3: need to nominate someone, or are you in a situation

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Speaker 3: where you're like, all right, well, I don't have that,

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Speaker 3: but my parents would make that decision, and my parents

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Speaker 3: and my partner get along really well and they would

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Speaker 3: work it out. Or I don't mean to do the

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Speaker 3: morbid thing again, but it's my job as a financial

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Speaker 3: advisor to jump to the worst case scenarios. You're in

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Speaker 3: a same sex relationship, your parents don't agree, your parents

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Speaker 3: don't like your partner. You're on life support, your parents

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Speaker 3: have decided that your partner and you you don't live together,

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Speaker 3: so you're not de facto, so your partner doesn't actually

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Speaker 3: have any rights. They don't want your partner to come

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Speaker 3: and see you. Are you okay with that situation. I'm

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Speaker 3: not saying that that's your situation, George, but it is

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Speaker 3: the situation for some people. And if you're in that situation,

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Speaker 3: you might love your parents deeply, but maybe in that situation,

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Speaker 3: because of their biases or their upbringing, or you know,

390
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,000
Speaker 3: their views on the world, they're not going to operate

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Speaker 3: in the best possible way for you. And I think

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Speaker 3: that that's really important to take into consideration. And thankfully

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Speaker 3: we live in Australia, so we all have the same

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Speaker 3: rights when it comes to facto regardless of gender. However,

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Speaker 3: I think it's really important to think a little bit

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Speaker 3: about family politics, what that means, and how that might work,

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Speaker 3: because if you don't live with your partner or you're

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Speaker 3: not de facto, like there are so many things that

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Speaker 3: come into play, and it can honestly be heartbreaking in

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Speaker 3: a situation like that, especially where it's happening to somebody

401
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Speaker 3: you love. You're like, I know what they would want

402
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Speaker 3: and that's not what's currently happening, and you can't do

403
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Speaker 3: anything about it because the person who has direct control

404
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 3: is their parent, or it might be their partner, or

405
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Speaker 3: it might be a family member. And you know, there's

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Speaker 3: lots of different situations where this has happened. But at

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Speaker 3: the end of the day, it's to protect you and

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Speaker 3: your wishes at a time when you can't make your

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Speaker 3: own decisions.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so this leads me flawlessly actually to my next

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Speaker 2: core question. What do you do if someone that you

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Speaker 2: love has chosen a power of attorney but someone that

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Speaker 2: you don't get along with. So, you know, in a stereotypical,

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Speaker 2: like fictional novel world, I've just finished the Paper Palace

415
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Speaker 2: and all I can think about is like family drama.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, good, I've heard that's a great.

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Speaker 2: It's so good. I love to need to borrow it.

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Speaker 3: You keep on with power of attorneys, though, what were

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Speaker 3: you going to say, so if you hated your stepfather

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Speaker 3: or something like that, and he had all this power

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Speaker 3: when your mother was unable to make her own decisions.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was making decisions that you didn't agree with.

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Speaker 2: Do you have any rights as a daughter or a

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Speaker 2: family member to take any kind of action or do

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Speaker 2: you just have to suck it up and deal with it.

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Speaker 2: Look both absolutely both.

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Speaker 3: So if you believe they're doing something that's absolutely in

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Speaker 3: breach of their obligations or their duties, it's completely possible

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Speaker 3: for you to sue them. But you can't just do

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Speaker 3: that if you don't agree with the decision that they've made.

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Speaker 3: So if they've made a decision and it's actually in

432
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 3: line with their obligations and it's just a decision that

433
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 3: you don't agree with, Like, let's give an example of

434
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 3: painting a room red and you really wanted blue, Like,

435
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 3: there's nothing illegal about painting it red, you didn't really

436
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 3: like it. There's not a lot that you can do,

437
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,280
Speaker 3: So I think the important thing here is to have

438
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 3: open honest conversations. If they've elected a power of attorney

439
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 3: and it might be your partner, I think you need

440
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 3: to have that open, honest conversation about how you feel

441
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,360
Speaker 3: about that and voice your concerns to them. So before

442
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,160
Speaker 3: that power of attorney is enforced, you get to understand

443
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 3: why they might have made that decision and what that means.

444
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 3: And if there are any things that you go, oh

445
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 3: my gosh, you're catastrophizing. As much as Victoria devine. Does

446
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 3: you go, oh my gosh, what if they xyz. That

447
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,399
Speaker 3: gives your partner or whoever we're talking about, the opportunity

448
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,879
Speaker 3: to say, well, actually, Georgia, in that situation, i'd want this,

449
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 3: and you go, okay, cool. Can you put that into

450
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 3: the power of attorney so that your wishes are really

451
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,160
Speaker 3: well known if you've got any concerns, so you can

452
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 3: often and I don't mean get around it as in,

453
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,920
Speaker 3: you know, circumvent the situation. But if there's something that

454
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,199
Speaker 3: you're super worried about happening, you can talk to that

455
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 3: person and say, super worried in this event this is

456
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 3: going to happen. Can we make sure that that's written

457
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 3: in your power of attorney so it can't happen? And

458
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 3: your partner or whoever this might be might go, yeah, okay,

459
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 3: no problems. I just want you to have peace of

460
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 3: mind as well. However, a better option than just being

461
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 3: really dramatic and suing someone if you're in Victoria, would

462
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 3: be to reach out and get in contact with VCAT

463
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 3: and hear their advice to hopefully resolve that is. Obviously,

464
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 3: you can get in touch with your state's equivalent for

465
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 3: the same service However, I'm not going to list up

466
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,439
Speaker 3: them all. You can just look them up on Google.

467
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 3: I promise it is super simple. But basically, if someone's

468
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 3: doing the wrong thing, there can be consequences. Like this

469
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 3: is a legally binding document, there are legal consequences to

470
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 3: doing the wrong thing. But if they're not, it's not

471
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,440
Speaker 3: very easy to take action. And that's why I really

472
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,199
Speaker 3: recommend having conversations and being honest about your wishes and

473
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 3: what you want, especially if you know that someone has

474
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,120
Speaker 3: a power of attorney that you don't particularly fancy.

475
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, gosh, it's so interesting how messy things can

476
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 2: get when it comes to affairs and finances, you know,

477
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 2: Like it's reminded me of the conversations we've had about

478
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 2: wills and what happens when people don't have them. It

479
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 2: can be really scary. Yeah.

480
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've got a friend whose parents went through, you know,

481
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 3: a nasty situation where where one of them, you know,

482
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 3: had a dad that needed a power of attorney but

483
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 3: it hadn't been granted and their dad wasn't in control

484
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 3: of their own body or their mind anymore and needed

485
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 3: the best thing to be done. But their daughter, who

486
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 3: had a drug addiction was still living with the dad

487
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 3: because she lived with them, was granted it immediately because

488
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 3: that was the default because they already lived together, and

489
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 3: that absolutely well and truly was not in the best

490
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 3: interests of that father. So I think it's a really

491
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 3: complex situation and the best way to circumvent it dolls

492
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,719
Speaker 3: have these conversations early, really understand what they are and

493
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 3: put these things in place. And that's not a luxury

494
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 3: that is often afforded to most people because often you're

495
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 3: only thinking about a power of attorney when you're like,

496
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 3: oh my god, this big, massive thing happened and it's

497
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 3: so bloody horrible and no one's thought about this what's

498
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 3: going to happen. So it's honestly a really beautiful thing

499
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 3: that we can have these conversations now and be like, hey, George,

500
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 3: is this something you need to think about. You might go, nah,

501
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,239
Speaker 3: I'm all good for now, thanks, though, yeah, Like, I

502
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 3: just want you to have the education to make the

503
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 3: educated decision so that you do what's right for George,

504
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 3: not the default. Because you didn't know there was any options,

505
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 3: and you didn't know there was something that you needed

506
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 3: to be doing. You hadn't even ever had the topic

507
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 3: brought up to you.

508
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 2: Literally, I had no idea what this was until it

509
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,679
Speaker 2: came up on our list of episodes to research. Sorry,

510
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 2: no love, I feel like I've learned a lot already.

511
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 2: Can you change your mind? If you've chosen a power

512
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 2: of attorney and then.

513
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, you can just take it back

514
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 3: and be like, yo, I don't want you any more.

515
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 1: Thanks.

516
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 3: Though, if you've appointed somebody and you're like, amore, yeah,

517
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 3: you can kick them out. You can revoke it so

518
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 3: long as you are mentally capable of making that decision.

519
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:37,959
Speaker 3: So first you'll need to inform the person as soon

520
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 3: as possible and do it in writing. And that piece

521
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 3: of documentation is called a recovation of power of attorney,

522
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 3: so you need to tell them is it recovation, revocation, revocation?

523
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 3: Do you know what? Leave that in two sand turns

524
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 3: out I can't talk. But from there there are actual

525
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 3: copies of the power of attorney document that are in

526
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 3: possession of the attorney or the person you nominated, FYI,

527
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 3: and they need to be returned and any organizations who

528
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,439
Speaker 3: have been involved need to be notified too, because often

529
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 3: you'll tell people, hey, here's the information. This is my

530
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,120
Speaker 3: power of attorney. If George King contacts you, she can

531
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 3: actually talk to you about me or my behalf because

532
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 3: she's legally allowed to. You need to pull those And

533
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 3: then finally, if the power of attorney was registered, it

534
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 3: needs to be completely unregistered. So yes, you can take

535
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 3: it back whenever you want, as long as you're mentally

536
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:26,479
Speaker 3: capable of doing so.

537
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So you can't just commit to it and

538
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 2: then when you're not in the right state, you can't

539
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 2: take it back because that's why it was put in place.

540
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why it was put in place. But if

541
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 3: you're completely mentally stable and you're like g King and I,

542
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 3: we always fight. V always talks over G SO.

543
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 2: And vice versa. In terms of setting yourself up with one,

544
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 2: do we need a lawyer involved, you need a financial advisor?

545
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 2: How do we actually go about doing You.

546
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 3: Can do a little DIY. You can quite make a

547
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 3: power of attorney yourself. However, I would obviously always recommend

548
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 3: getting some legal advice so that you are completely aware

549
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 3: of all the consequences of what you are doing and

550
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 3: to make sure that it's completely legal in a binding way.

551
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 3: You can either get in touch with your own private

552
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 3: lawyer or go buy the state trustee. Again, they have

553
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 3: the ability to organize a heap of stuff for you.

554
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 3: You don't need a private lawyer for this. But basically

555
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 3: you need to just fill out a form which details

556
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 3: all the info like your name, your address, the person

557
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 3: you are going to elect as a power of attorney

558
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 3: and the powers you want to give them. It's all

559
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 3: pretty straightforward. Then you need to sign the form and

560
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 3: it needs to be done in the company of two

561
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 3: adult witnesses, one of whom needs to be a registered

562
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 3: medical practitioner or authority to witness affidavits, which g king.

563
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 2: Is that you I I've got hang on, so do it?

564
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 2: Are you a doctor or you are?

565
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 3: No, I'm an authorized person to witness an affidavit?

566
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 2: So does that come with being an authorized financial advisor? Yeah?

567
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, fancy financial advisor perk. And it didn't used to

568
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 3: be a fancy financial advisor perk. It used to only

569
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 3: be extended to like lawyers and accountants and pharmacy people.

570
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 2: No, girl, that's me interesting.

571
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 3: I can certify your document you bring in your passport,

572
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 3: I'll say it's a certified copy. No need to pay

573
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 3: two dollars at the pharmacy anymore.

574
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 2: Gking, it's handy. You're welcome. Good to know, well, money,

575
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 2: we a line of all of us coming to you, don't. Oh,

576
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 2: you're welcome.

577
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 3: If ever you run into me in the shops, I

578
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 3: really need someone to certify this copy of my driver's license.

579
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: Girl, I got.

580
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 2: You, brilliant. Okay, So with all of this in mind,

581
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 2: be would you say that people our age all of

582
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: the millennials that are currently listening, Is it something that

583
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 2: they need to be looking at doing sooner than later. Yeah, okay, you're.

584
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 3: Welcome, but I do think so genuinely wrap it from here.

585
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,719
Speaker 3: But just as I've recommended we all get our wills

586
00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 3: done when we are young, I think it's really important

587
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 3: to do the same thing when it comes to power

588
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 3: of attorneys, so that we can ensure that all of

589
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 3: our hard earned assets and plans and life goals and

590
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 3: things can stay in place with the people we want

591
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 3: them with. Like you know, as I said, this topic

592
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 3: can be quite morbid because at the end of the day,

593
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 3: these things only really come into play when you are

594
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 3: ill or you are completely incapacitated. But I just know

595
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 3: that if I was in that situation, I don't have

596
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 3: any control. I am very type A, so I like

597
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 3: to control what I can and I want to know

598
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 3: that I've set myself up with the right people around

599
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 3: me and the right outcomes. And I've had conversations about

600
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 3: what my expectations are and that could be things from

601
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 3: you know, I want my parents to manage my finances

602
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 3: and my partner to make decisions about my health all

603
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,479
Speaker 3: the way through to I want to make sure that

604
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 3: if ever I am in a situation where I need

605
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 3: to be resuscitated, I might not be. And I'm not

606
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 3: saying that that's what I want personally, but these are

607
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 3: the types of things that a power of attorney can

608
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 3: help you make a decision on. Another example of that

609
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 3: is life support. Do you want that turned off or

610
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 3: do you not? Is that a conversation that you want

611
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 3: to have. Is that something that you know you want

612
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 3: to give that person the power to do and what

613
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 3: does that mean to you? What are your boundaries on that?

614
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 3: And I think that that puts you in the most

615
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 3: powerful position. And also I know that this is not

616
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 3: what the episode is about, but a power of attorney

617
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 3: often lifts a lot of guilt from other people who

618
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 3: are in a situation where you haven't set that up

619
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 3: that they might harbor. So, G, if you said to me,

620
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 3: these are my wishes, this is what I want if

621
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 3: I'm ever in situation ab orc and I go, okay,

622
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 3: no problems, Georgia, this is what you want. That conversation

623
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 3: when it comes to it and we're talking to doctors

624
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 3: and everybody's stressed and so upset, I go, no, that's

625
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 3: what G said she wanted. We're doing what G wanted.

626
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 3: Not Oh, I don't know. Are we're doing the right thing?

627
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 3: Or I will talk to her parents. Maybe her parents

628
00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 3: can make that decision and then they feel guilty for

629
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 3: doing what they believe is best for me. I have

630
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 3: told you what is best for me because I know me.

631
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 3: So I think it's a really powerful position to be in.

632
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 3: And I didn't mean to leave this episode on a

633
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 3: negative kind of note, but I think it's really important

634
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 3: to do. And if you haven't listened to our episode

635
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 3: about wills, I would strongly encourage you to go back

636
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 3: and have a bit of a listen to that, because

637
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 3: whilst these subjects might seem a little bit dry or

638
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,959
Speaker 3: a little bit mundane, organizing our affairs can save our

639
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 3: loved ones a lot of work and it takes a

640
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 3: little bit of effort today to make the world of

641
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 3: difference tomorrow. So that's probably where I want to leave it.

642
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 2: George.

643
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, well said, go listen to one of our Friday

644
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 3: episodes to pep you up a little bit in the

645
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 3: movie in the Mood. But I do think this has

646
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 3: been a really powerful topic to cover and an education

647
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 3: point that I wanted you guys to really absorb. So Gee,

648
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Speaker 3: hopefully you've learned something. Hopefully everybody listening has learned something.

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Speaker 3: I love you all, but unfortunately that is all we

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Speaker 3: have time for today. So just before we head off,

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Speaker 3: we'd like to acknowledge and pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal

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Speaker 3: and Torres Strait islander peoples. They're the traditional custodians of

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Speaker 3: the lands, the waterways and the skies all across Australia.

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Speaker 3: We thank you for sharing and for caring for the

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Speaker 3: land on which we are able to learn. We pay

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Speaker 3: respects to elders past and present, and we share our

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Speaker 3: friendship and our kindness. See you next week, guys, See

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Speaker 3: you guys,