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Speaker 1: Three point sixty with Katie Wolf thanks to Joyce Main

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Speaker 1: Darwin Homes owned Stuart Highway, Berrima.

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Speaker 2: Tell you what there has been a lot too sort

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Speaker 2: of unpack you'd have to say, as estimates of SAT

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Speaker 2: over the last last week and a half and public

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Speaker 2: housing wait times for something that was on the agenda

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Speaker 2: when the Housing Minister Kate Warden, the Urban Housing Minister

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Speaker 2: Kate Warden was in the hot seat now joining us

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Speaker 2: in the studio to talk a little bit more about

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Speaker 2: housing and what seems like quite the shortage. Is the

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Speaker 2: executive officer Peter McMillan from NT Shelter. Good morning to you, Peter,

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie. Great have you in the studio.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having us in now.

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Speaker 2: I imagine that you would have been watching estimates pretty

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Speaker 2: closely when the Housing Minister was in there talking about

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Speaker 2: the situation with those public housing weight times. How are

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Speaker 2: we looking in the territory at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Well, I haven't got any good use, Katie for you

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Speaker 1: and your listeners in this space. I'm afraid the situation

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Speaker 1: with public housing waitlist it's really sparring out of control.

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Speaker 1: We've now got five thousand families across the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: that are waiting their chance to access public housing in

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Speaker 1: our urban centers and that's growned by twenty two percent

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Speaker 1: over the last two years alone. So wow, it's really

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Speaker 1: a serious and significant problem we're dealing with at the minute.

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Speaker 2: So we're certainly not making inroads. In fact, by the

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Speaker 2: look of things, we're quite the opposite.

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Speaker 1: In simple terms, Katie, what's happening is that there's no

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Speaker 1: new money for building houses. We've spent some money over

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Speaker 1: the last couple of years with seeing government spend money

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Speaker 1: on repairs and maintenance a couple of houses here and there.

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Speaker 1: But when you've got stock that's so old eighty eight

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Speaker 1: percent of their stock is thirty years or older, the

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Speaker 1: challenge in is, well, how do you actually get ahead

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Speaker 1: of the game when you're knocking houses down or when

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Speaker 1: you're selling them off. And I was just going to say,

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Speaker 1: in terms of things like John Stoke Square, I mean

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Speaker 1: the Minister referred in estimates yesterday to so many million

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Speaker 1: dollars going to that, but that's really just replacing housing

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Speaker 1: that was already there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to ask, you know, we have

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Speaker 2: seen some of those developments get underway or some of

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Speaker 2: those some of those places out in Palmerston is one

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Speaker 2: of the ones that had been mentioned to us on

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Speaker 2: a few occasions. Then taking that stock off the you know,

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Speaker 2: out out of the market, or not even the market,

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Speaker 2: but out of the you know, out of the public

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Speaker 2: housing stock, and it then means that, well, where do

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Speaker 2: those people go? Do they then sort of jump the

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Speaker 2: weight list in terms of finding another place I have.

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Speaker 1: In that case, I've actually transferred people into other housing,

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Speaker 1: mainly in the northern suburbs. What it means, of course,

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Speaker 1: is those people that were next in line for housing

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Speaker 1: just have to wait that extra bit longer. And when

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Speaker 1: you're already waiting up to eight years for a house,

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Speaker 1: it must be very dispiriting for people out there listening

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Speaker 1: and thinking, well, you know what, I'm struggling. I'm on

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Speaker 1: the public housing wait list, or maybe I should be

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Speaker 1: on the public kalsing wait list. Cost My rents just

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Speaker 1: gone up through the roof. But if it's going to

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Speaker 1: take me eight years to get access to a home,

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Speaker 1: what am I gonna do? Am I gonna am I

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Speaker 1: gonna wait? Am I going to sleep with it at

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Speaker 1: a friend's place? Am I going to get a spot

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Speaker 1: in a caravan part if I can or am I

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Speaker 1: going to leave the territory. And at the moment when

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Speaker 1: we're really trying to grow the population of the territory,

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Speaker 1: we're trying to get economic growth and jobs. Want to

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Speaker 1: be the comeback capital. But if we can't house our

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Speaker 1: existing population, how on earth are we're going to house

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Speaker 1: a future population?

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Speaker 2: And you know we're not. I guess you know sometimes

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Speaker 2: people when they think about public housing and who fills

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Speaker 2: those public housing homes, you know, it can be a

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Speaker 2: real like, it can be a real range of people.

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Speaker 2: But we're also talking about those that have disabilities. We're

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Speaker 2: talking about our seniors, some of our pensioners in the community,

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Speaker 2: and then you know, trying to get them into a

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Speaker 2: place can be really tough.

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Speaker 1: It can be tough. And you're absolutely right, and there

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Speaker 1: are some areas and let's not make it's not as

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Speaker 1: important that I'm not in here and Pollyanna saying everything's

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Speaker 1: wonderful or will be wonderful with solutions, because the reality

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Speaker 1: is we've got a lot of work to do in

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Speaker 1: this space. We know there are some public housing complexes

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Speaker 1: where there have been problems with behavior and visitors. How

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Speaker 1: it's been let to get to that situation is a

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Speaker 1: good question. I mean, there are organizations that can support

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Speaker 1: tenants and stop that sort of stuff from happening and

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Speaker 1: in future, the minister said, the current model just simply

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Speaker 1: isn't working. We need to get the non government community

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Speaker 1: housing sector in there to manage more of those assets

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Speaker 1: and to get better results. Because you know, nobody wants

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Speaker 1: to live in a neighborhood where there are issues. We've

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Speaker 1: got to face that that is reality, especially with visitors

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Speaker 1: coming to town and causing issues in our public housing estates.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you spot on, Peter, because that's something that we

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Speaker 2: hear very often. You know, we have people get in

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Speaker 2: contact with us and say, you know, yesterday, for example,

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Speaker 2: we had a listener getting contact and say that they

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Speaker 2: live next door to a public housing home where there

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Speaker 2: was serious issues with visitors there. You know, really sadly

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Speaker 2: he'd said, you know, a child sleeping in the backyard

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Speaker 2: then because they didn't feel safe inside. It does make

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Speaker 2: you wonder how does it get to that point before

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Speaker 2: Territory Housing steps in.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's also about resourcing, to be honest, Katie, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean the service sector really is overstretched and underfunded.

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Speaker 1: And we know that when organizations can get in and

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Speaker 1: support tenants in around eighty percent of chances, sorry eighty

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Speaker 1: percent of occasions, they're able to help the tenant keep

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Speaker 1: their tendency right and get evicted. So stuff works. It

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Speaker 1: is a difficult issue. Most of the complaints that relate

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Speaker 1: to public housing tendancies are due to visitor issues the

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Speaker 1: overwhelming majority. And that's a very difficult conversation that we're

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Speaker 1: working through with government to see what we can do

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Speaker 1: differently to be more proactive and to work with people,

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Speaker 1: work with visitors and tenants alike to get the right

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Speaker 1: sort of behaviors rather than having to look at red

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Speaker 1: cards and evictions and.

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Speaker 2: Everything, Peter. We also hear quite a bit, you know,

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Speaker 2: from people who say, I live next door to a

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Speaker 2: public housing house that's been vacant for you know, an

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Speaker 2: extended period of time. Is that something that happens fairly offered.

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Speaker 1: It's a real problem, Katie. And one of the one

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Speaker 1: of the indicators is the amount of time it takes

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Speaker 1: for a house to be retenanted once it comes on

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Speaker 1: off the market, when somebody leaves leaves the house, and

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Speaker 1: it's on average it's one hundred and twenty days to

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Speaker 1: get that retenanted. Where the department's key performance indicator with

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Speaker 1: seventy days. The organizations were talking about before community housing providers.

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Speaker 1: Your list may not be aware, but we already have

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Speaker 1: housing providers in Northern Territory that do amazing work and

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Speaker 1: really the government is looking to see how it can

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Speaker 1: grow that sector. They are required under their very strict

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Speaker 1: regulations to return their housing back in twenty four days,

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Speaker 1: not one hundred and twenty days, twenty four days. If

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Speaker 1: there is damage in a property, it's forty two days.

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Speaker 1: So these organizations have been proven across Australia to do

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Speaker 1: a far better job than state and territory public housing

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Speaker 1: providers in that they're close to the tenants. They can

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Speaker 1: do better community development, they can build inclusive communities that

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Speaker 1: are functioning, and they can also attract a lot of

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Speaker 1: revenue through commonwalth and assistance that the commonwalth government will pay.

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Speaker 1: They won't pay it to public housing, but they'll pay

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Speaker 1: it to community housing providers. And because these are philanthropic

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Speaker 1: organizations that want to do good work, they don't have

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Speaker 1: to pay things like GST and they can also get

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Speaker 1: exemptions on things like stamp duty, So like is.

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Speaker 2: That where we need to be sort of looking to

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Speaker 2: expand here, because if we're not in a situation where

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Speaker 2: we've got the money to be able to build more

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Speaker 2: public housing accommodation at this point in time, do we

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Speaker 2: need to be looking at those community housing providers to

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Speaker 2: try and expand our stock in different ways.

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Speaker 1: It's the only option that we're seeing at the moment

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Speaker 1: that's a viable option when you look at the fact

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Speaker 1: that housing requires obviously requires land, and it requires capital

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Speaker 1: money to build houses, and it requires money. So we

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Speaker 1: know the territory government can and should make a contribution

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Speaker 1: with land because they do have some land ownership. They

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Speaker 1: should also be looking at how they can contribute to

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Speaker 1: getting more houses built. Community housing providers can probably get

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Speaker 1: more housing built, more cost effectively and quicker and better.

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Speaker 1: So it's a partnership. The Territory government certainly can't walk

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Speaker 1: away from urban public housing. You know, it talks Katie

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Speaker 1: about all the work it's doing in the remote space,

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Speaker 1: which is fantastic. It's got a frunt up to the

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Speaker 1: plate and do something significant in the urban space as well.

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Speaker 1: This is certainly no time for dizzering, you know, we

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Speaker 1: heard earlier this week that there's talk of getting another

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Speaker 1: consulted in to help with this project. We've been waiting

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Speaker 1: for six years for a strategy for community housing, and

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Speaker 1: you know, we really don't need to get another consultant

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Speaker 1: to come in and tell government how to do its job.

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Speaker 2: Good point, Peter, you know, to really put this into

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Speaker 2: perspective for people listening this morning, like how many people

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Speaker 2: have we gotten the Northern Territory at the moment who

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Speaker 2: need help with getting a home. I don't mean just

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Speaker 2: those that require full sort of public housing, but you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe in some cases it can be somebody who just

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Speaker 2: sort of you know, who is really struggling and needs,

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Speaker 2: you know, some assistance with let's say, community housing.

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Speaker 1: Katie, it's a really good question. We're not just talking

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Speaker 1: here about people who are rough sleepers. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: people that are facing rental increases that aren't able to

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Speaker 1: meet the rent payments. We're talking about people that want

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Speaker 1: to come to Northern Territory to make the territory their

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Speaker 1: home and to work. And we want families to pack

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Speaker 1: up and bring the kids up from Melbourne and Adelaide

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Speaker 1: to work here and create and grow our jobs. In

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Speaker 1: an economy is exactly what we want to do. But

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Speaker 1: there's not housing. There's no house, there's not enough housing

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Speaker 1: at all, let alone stuff that's affordable. So to give

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Speaker 1: you an example, there's a company up here called Venture

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Speaker 1: Housing Company that's a registered community housing provider doing great work.

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Speaker 1: Normally they would have twenty to twenty five applications for

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Speaker 1: their housing when it's available, and that's generally targeted to

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Speaker 1: people who've got a little bit more capacity to pay,

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Speaker 1: so they're not eligible for public housing, but they're eligible

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Speaker 1: for housing that's a little bit discounted to the normal market.

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Speaker 1: You're around eighty percent of market. They had three hundred

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Speaker 1: people on their wait lists, three hundred people apply for

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Speaker 1: the last vacancy down in Palmerston four weeks ago, when

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Speaker 1: normally they'd see twenty to twenty five applications. They said,

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Speaker 1: it's unprecedented and that just really underlies is how tough

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Speaker 1: it is out there at the number. And we need

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Speaker 1: a plan. We need a plan really right now. We

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Speaker 1: need to get cracking on this stuff.

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Speaker 2: Well, Peter McMillan, we are going to have to leave

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Speaker 2: it there. Unfortunately. I'll tell you what I could talk

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Speaker 2: to you for much longer about this, but we might

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Speaker 2: get you back in the studio another day because we've

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Speaker 2: got to rush off to the news. Thank you so much,

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Speaker 2: thank you, And that was Peter McMillan there, who is

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Speaker 2: nt Shelter's chief executive officer. That number if you're keen

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Speaker 2: to call through eight nine four one one O four

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Speaker 2: nine