Speaker 1: Ordinarily speaking, you see the monster, but you don't see
Speaker 1: the real meat.
Speaker 2: Takes time. Hello and welcome to this week's episode of
Speaker 2: ordinarily Speaking. Dale Stain is regarded as one of the
Speaker 2: greatest fast bowlers of all time. He retired from the
Speaker 2: game last year with four hundred and thirty nine Test wickets,
Speaker 2: one hundred and ninety six ODI scalps, as well as
Speaker 2: sixty forty twenty international wickets to his name. But the
Speaker 2: one thing he desperately wanted, a maiden World Cup title
Speaker 2: for South Africa, eluded him. The biggest moment of your
Speaker 2: career what happens when you don't deliver? Dale chares that
Speaker 2: side of the story with brutal honesty and admits it
Speaker 2: gnawed at him for years, maybe even for life. The
Speaker 2: man who declares he willfully terrified people out on the
Speaker 2: ground is now finding his feet in retirement, navigating the
Speaker 2: anxiety that change brings, and coming to terms with what
Speaker 2: could have been. Knowing he'll never get the chance again.
Speaker 2: I'm pleased to say the animal on the pitch is
Speaker 2: replaced by an incredibly caring man off it. He's just
Speaker 2: a country kid at heart and a delightful person to
Speaker 2: be around. I hope you enjoy getting to know Dale
Speaker 2: Stain in a chat that comes full circle as Dale
Speaker 2: makes a poignant realization at the end. Well, thanks so
Speaker 2: much for joining me, Dar, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: You are most welcome. We've already had enough laughs before
Speaker 1: we even started this, so let's see where we go.
Speaker 2: It's the best way to do things, isn't it having
Speaker 2: a laugh first?
Speaker 1: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: I want to start by saying, I've obviously watched you
Speaker 2: for so many years, like so many cricket fans. Have
Speaker 2: you got the bulging eyes, the crazy eyes on the field,
Speaker 2: this intense character. Yeah, working with you, getting to know you,
Speaker 2: it turns out that you are the most chilled, lovely,
Speaker 2: generous guy. And the two just don't align at all.
Speaker 2: What's it like for you being almost two completely different
Speaker 2: people from professional to personal.
Speaker 1: Yeah? Look, I think when you go on to the field,
Speaker 1: you have to kind of be somebody else, you know,
Speaker 1: like to like see like I'm fast bowler, Like I
Speaker 1: love bowling fast and everything like that. When I was
Speaker 1: a kid, I love bowling fast, But then I learned
Speaker 1: all these other things that come with fast bowling, like
Speaker 1: body language and like the fear factor and all of
Speaker 1: that thing, you know, all those things that kind of
Speaker 1: come with it. So I created like this kind of
Speaker 1: persona on the field, who I'm not exactly the same
Speaker 1: off the field too. And then when I got on
Speaker 1: and I just kind of slipt into that person you know,
Speaker 1: into that persona, and I do my thing, and then
Speaker 1: off the field, I am who I am?
Speaker 2: So who is this persona that you created?
Speaker 1: I just wanted to create somebody that was scary, you know,
Speaker 1: like that's that's what I thought. That's what I was
Speaker 1: told about fast bowling, you know. And I watched those
Speaker 1: West Indians ball back in the day and watched Shai Bowl.
Speaker 1: I was absolutely petrified as a viewer watching this, and
Speaker 1: I was like this, this scares me, you know, without
Speaker 1: ever meeting these guys. And then when I started to play,
Speaker 1: I started to realize, maybe this is These are the
Speaker 1: kind of things, these attributes that I needed to include
Speaker 1: into my game. I played against Shane Warne and I
Speaker 1: loved listening to him. I played against him luckily where
Speaker 1: he sledged guys, not sledged them badly, but like he
Speaker 1: was very clever with these words. So I picked up
Speaker 1: things like that, especially when he targets people's techniques. He
Speaker 1: makes you feel like you are hitting the ball where
Speaker 1: he wants you to hit the ball, rather than allowing
Speaker 1: you to feel like I've just played the shot that
Speaker 1: I wanted to play. He's like, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you played the shot that I wanted you to play.
Speaker 1: So it really makes you think. You know, and then
Speaker 1: watching other guys like the Quicks, like Shaib and Brettley
Speaker 1: and all of that, I just wanted to take all
Speaker 1: of that, package it into something and of bash it
Speaker 1: all up and then make it who I wanted it
Speaker 1: to be, and then guard into the field and scare
Speaker 1: people and take wickets.
Speaker 2: When you saw yourself, did you recognize yourself in those
Speaker 2: crazy eyes?
Speaker 1: They it's the yeah, look it's different. Like when I
Speaker 1: watch myself play. Sometimes I sit down and I watch
Speaker 1: and I watch the early early years and I'm like,
Speaker 1: who is that person? What's going through that kid's mind?
Speaker 1: You become like this thing through the people that you
Speaker 1: are around. You know. I was lucky enough that I
Speaker 1: spend time with Darryl cullenan who kind of he would
Speaker 1: put the ball into my hand. He'd be like, you
Speaker 1: do what I tell you to do. You know, otherwise
Speaker 1: I'll find somebody else to do it, you know, and
Speaker 1: you get hard and you you start to do that
Speaker 1: and then it becomes part of your game. But it's
Speaker 1: actually what he wanted, you know. He wanted me to
Speaker 1: bounce people and hit people and everything. But then I
Speaker 1: found success in that. I've got wickets like it, so
Speaker 1: I just I stole it and I'm like, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: put that into my game. That's gonna become part of
Speaker 1: my game. But it was his game plan, you know,
Speaker 1: and loads of different examples. But yeah, when I watch it,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't recognize that human because it's not
Speaker 1: who I actually am. But it's good to slip into
Speaker 1: that and be that because it can be very successful
Speaker 1: on the field, you know, in sport.
Speaker 2: Is it hard as well? Though completely pretending to be
Speaker 2: someone else it can be.
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I think it's like it's
Speaker 1: quite It's a nice release for me because when I
Speaker 1: go into the field, everything that I have, like normal
Speaker 1: life issues, like anybody else like kind of just they
Speaker 1: stay off the field, and I'm able to go into
Speaker 1: this field and just like express not who I am,
Speaker 1: but express how I want to go about doing something
Speaker 1: without having the worry of someone sitting there going, oh,
Speaker 1: but he's a nice guy. I actually want people to
Speaker 1: walk into the field thinking, oh, he's a nice guy,
Speaker 1: and then walk into the situation where they feel absolute
Speaker 1: terror and fear, because that's what it is. You know,
Speaker 1: you should be able to if you can't get wickets
Speaker 1: through guys with skill, sometimes fear is the biggest way
Speaker 1: of getting poles, especially when it comes to fast bowling.
Speaker 1: There's nothing more scary than facing a fast piling when
Speaker 1: you feel like your life is on the line. It is,
Speaker 1: and that's an incredible power to have as a fast bowler.
Speaker 1: And I experienced that at a young age where I
Speaker 1: was probably fourteen, and I was a timid little guy
Speaker 1: at fourteen, and I was playing club cricket against men,
Speaker 1: and when I was flooring these guys, I was hitting
Speaker 1: these guys, you know, and seeing grown men lying on
Speaker 1: the floor almost in tears. There was a power that
Speaker 1: I'd now experienced for the first time that I never
Speaker 1: felt in my life before. And that's what you get
Speaker 1: when you get onto that field.
Speaker 2: I'm looking across from you, when I'm seeing the crazy
Speaker 2: eyes coming out.
Speaker 1: Of me right now, starting to slip into it. I'm
Speaker 1: going to turn green at some point, like the Hulk
Speaker 1: just burst through things.
Speaker 2: I love that. So you genuinely enjoyed terrifying people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely loved it. Like it just you know, I
Speaker 1: didn't get a kick out of it, like I'd stand
Speaker 1: there and laugh at somebody, you know, But like I,
Speaker 1: you could smell it, not smell it like physically smell it,
Speaker 1: but you can get a sense of it, like in
Speaker 1: a whiff of it, like would they say, like a
Speaker 1: wolf or a line or can pick up and track
Speaker 1: blood from a mile away, like I could feel when
Speaker 1: I would look at two batters and I'd be like, no,
Speaker 1: I can see that you are absolutely petrified, and the
Speaker 1: other guy he's okay. So I'm going to focus everything
Speaker 1: on you. You are going to be the weakest prey
Speaker 1: and going to be simple and easy for me to get.
Speaker 1: And that's just how I did it.
Speaker 2: I think I've actually worked it out that the reason
Speaker 2: why you're so nice is because you got all your
Speaker 2: anger around.
Speaker 1: Get away on the field. Yeah, dirt all on the field,
Speaker 1: and don't tweak me before I go out onto the field,
Speaker 1: because just absolutely come out your barrage.
Speaker 2: I love that. Is there any moments where you had
Speaker 2: to pretend where you were feeling less secure within yourself
Speaker 2: or feeling that sense of fear of failure. I guess
Speaker 2: that you had to convince yourself to be that guy.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the time I had. There
Speaker 1: was times when I was prepping for a game when
Speaker 1: I just felt like things are not going well, you know,
Speaker 1: like I don't feel physically good. I'm saw my hamstringers,
Speaker 1: saw I'm struggling with a quad or my body saw
Speaker 1: it's been a rough test match. And then then, as
Speaker 1: the old saying goes, you fake it. You know, you
Speaker 1: fake it, so you make it. And I would run
Speaker 1: out onto that field and fake the energy and just
Speaker 1: put a put a show on to again, like show
Speaker 1: the opposition that I'm, yeah, I'm you know, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: going to be in your face today, and then walk
Speaker 1: back into the dressing room absolutely fall down there and
Speaker 1: lie there and just go all right, I need a
Speaker 1: red bull and a coke and you know, and let's go,
Speaker 1: you know, and then just go out there and try
Speaker 1: and do it again. So that was that was tough,
Speaker 1: but then it was always good. My coaches always saw
Speaker 1: the effort that I put in and the mental side
Speaker 1: of things, because it is difficult to try and slip
Speaker 1: into that thing. That also when you go back into
Speaker 1: the dressing room, and it was always strange because I
Speaker 1: found when you walk in the dressing room, people don't
Speaker 1: want you to scream and shout and lose your shit,
Speaker 1: you know. And I wasn't somebody that did a lot
Speaker 1: of that, but if I did, that's sports, you know.
Speaker 1: People do tend to lose their cool sometimes sometimes something
Speaker 1: doesn't go your way, and then someone would come to
Speaker 1: me in the dressing room and be like, oh, you
Speaker 1: must calm down, and I'm like, you know, what do
Speaker 1: you mind if I curse? It's like, you know, of course,
Speaker 1: you know, fuck you, you know you you want me to
Speaker 1: be this animal on the field. But then when I
Speaker 1: come off the field and I'm in my safe space
Speaker 1: in the dressing room, you come and tell me that
Speaker 1: I need to put a lit on it. No, it's not,
Speaker 1: that's not gonna happen. Give me my five minutes. And
Speaker 1: then you get the monster out on the field and
Speaker 1: you might get a little bit of him in the
Speaker 1: dressing room, you know, but not always, you know, it's
Speaker 1: just but it was it's hard work to try and
Speaker 1: like manage that. But as soon as I got off
Speaker 1: the field most of the time have a shower, and
Speaker 1: you get off into public and everything, you just slip
Speaker 1: into who you are. You know, just leave that at
Speaker 1: the ground, you know.
Speaker 2: Because that always fascinates me with athletes, particularly really physical
Speaker 2: sports or like you're saying, a sport where you, you know,
Speaker 2: you're essentially trying to terrify somebody, How you get in
Speaker 2: and out of that mindset because you are still human
Speaker 2: at the end of the day. It's not, I imagine,
Speaker 2: not just a switch you can flick.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I started to like work this out that
Speaker 1: the moment I put on my uniform is when I
Speaker 1: slipped into the monster I wanted to be, you know,
Speaker 1: all this villain or whatever it was. I grew up
Speaker 1: watching like anybody like watching cartoons, and I didn't watch
Speaker 1: a lot of it, but I love Batman. Batman was
Speaker 1: a big one for me. She still quite enjoy watching.
Speaker 1: You know, they're dark and they you know, they're very
Speaker 1: They're good like Christian Bale are great. But I found
Speaker 1: like Batman is probably the most relatable of all your
Speaker 1: superheroes because he's actually just human, you know, who puts
Speaker 1: this cape on and hides his face and he goes
Speaker 1: out there. He's got no superhuman powers, Like if you
Speaker 1: shoot him, you can die. You know. Where's all the
Speaker 1: other super humans are like that, you shoot them, they
Speaker 1: recover and all that kind of crap, you know. But
Speaker 1: like Batman for me was like very relatable, and I
Speaker 1: was like cool, I want to do that when it
Speaker 1: comes to cricket. So as soon as I put my
Speaker 1: uniform on, whether it be playing for Franchise Crickets, Melbourne
Speaker 1: Stars or RCB or Sunrises whoever it was or South Africa,
Speaker 1: I become this superhuman, you know, and nothing's gonna fucking
Speaker 1: stop me. Nothing will stop me, not even a broken shoulder.
Speaker 1: I am gonna go. And then when I come off,
Speaker 1: then I can slip back into who who I want,
Speaker 1: who I am. You know, Batman still kind of fakes
Speaker 1: it like he's this billionaire, but I not that. Then
Speaker 1: I can be who who I want people to believe,
Speaker 1: who I am, who I feel I am. You know.
Speaker 1: I enjoy surfing and nature and outdoors and dogs and
Speaker 1: laughing and crying and all that kind of crap. But
Speaker 1: then on the field, I want to be that, you know, because.
Speaker 2: You are a big softer. You cry Reality TV terrible.
Speaker 1: Don't watch me sit here and I've been. I've told you,
Speaker 1: I've been. Get into this dark hole, black hole of
Speaker 1: YouTube with American idols and watching like nine year olds
Speaker 1: come there with I don't know you know, and they sing.
Speaker 1: I just I start crying alone in my room in
Speaker 1: a bubble, Terrible. Who have I.
Speaker 2: Become the monster crying in a bubble at a little
Speaker 2: girl who won a contest? I love it.
Speaker 1: It's good, it's inspirational. Everyone should have a tier every
Speaker 1: now and then.
Speaker 2: Absolutely real men cry. Tell me about before we get
Speaker 2: stuck in because you mentioned the shoulder just there, and
Speaker 2: I want to talk about the injuries that you've overcome.
Speaker 2: But I just want to go backwards a little bit
Speaker 2: because you grew up in a real little town. Tell
Speaker 2: me about it.
Speaker 1: So it's like this tiny little town that's connected to
Speaker 1: the Kruger National Park, Like there's nothing that happens there.
Speaker 1: It's like a tourist town, but there's a big mine.
Speaker 1: My whole family actually comes from Zimbabwe, so I think
Speaker 1: they went down for a funeral my grandfather went down
Speaker 1: for a funeral and there was like job application going
Speaker 1: around or they needed somebody to do a specific job.
Speaker 1: And his name was popped up because he was there,
Speaker 1: and he said, I'll come, but I'm bringing all my
Speaker 1: sons and son in laws. So my dad joined the party.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I was the only one that was born
Speaker 1: in South Africa in Pallabora. My whole family was born
Speaker 1: in Zimbabwe, and I feel like I'm an outcast just
Speaker 1: from that, you know, alone but tiny little town, no
Speaker 1: fences around the place. So we had loads of animals
Speaker 1: cruising through all the time. Like when I went to school,
Speaker 1: ride our bicycles or cycle or walk through the bush
Speaker 1: and there, I mean we would see tons of animals, elephants, lines,
Speaker 1: you name it, like daily basis, you know.
Speaker 2: Literally just walking this school, you'd come across these sort.
Speaker 1: Of animals, Yeah, cruising through going on the way to school.
Speaker 1: And then sometimes the police would be there and they
Speaker 1: would tell us you're not allowed to walk this way
Speaker 1: today because it's a little dirt track that goes through
Speaker 1: to the school. And they're like, you're not allowed to
Speaker 1: go this way because there's two male lines. And we're
Speaker 1: like shit, Now we've got to go the long way around,
Speaker 1: you know, the bicycles. It was not that far, but
Speaker 1: still like you can't go the shortcut, you know, you.
Speaker 2: Weren't willing to take on the lines.
Speaker 1: I didn't mind. I mean like I don't. I genuinely
Speaker 1: wish people can go, like google the place, you know,
Speaker 1: and just google images of it. My dad is a
Speaker 1: green keep on the golf course there, and I mean
Speaker 1: as a kid, I learned how to drive on that
Speaker 1: golf course. And we saw everything we've seen, lion kills,
Speaker 1: leopard kills, cheetah kills, wild dog kills. We saw twenty
Speaker 1: one wild dog eat impola like race through number seventeen.
Speaker 1: It's the water, it's a bit. It's a hole that's
Speaker 1: got a big water crossover. They chased an impola through
Speaker 1: and they ripped that impoller to nothing. In about three minutes.
Speaker 1: Twenty one wild Dog's gone, im Pola disappeared. We watched
Speaker 1: that and yeah, I ate it on the green you know,
Speaker 1: like you can google this. It's real. It's right there.
Speaker 1: And for a long time my dad used to make
Speaker 1: videos and then send them into There was a show
Speaker 1: in South Africa. It was called Felt focus. It's Afrikaans
Speaker 1: that means bush focus, or it was called fifty to
Speaker 1: fifty bush focus, felt focus. And you could send your
Speaker 1: home videos in of what you've seen, and my dad
Speaker 1: was a regular. He used to send videos in of
Speaker 1: like pythons that crossed the whole road. We used to
Speaker 1: get out and try and move them, and lions and
Speaker 1: all of this kind of stuff on the golf course
Speaker 1: because people were just amazed that this was happening on
Speaker 1: the golf course and this was on my doorstep.
Speaker 2: You didn't have to go far from motivation to be
Speaker 2: the monster.
Speaker 1: No no, And I think a lot of that is
Speaker 1: like where I grew up is why is who I
Speaker 1: am on the field? You know, I watched animals in
Speaker 1: the way that they behaved, and like I knew that
Speaker 1: they target the weakest link. It's quite simple. You know,
Speaker 1: if you're gonna take if a line's going to take
Speaker 1: down a buffalo, he's not going to take it down
Speaker 1: the biggest bull. He isn't to take down the cough
Speaker 1: or the one that's struggling or something like that. And
Speaker 1: in cricket, I just found like that was what I
Speaker 1: wanted to do. I wanted to get the big wickets,
Speaker 1: you know. So if David Warner is there, he's batting
Speaker 1: on one hundred and eighty or ninety or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: I want to get him out. But if the other
Speaker 1: bloke that's batting with him is more likely to get out,
Speaker 1: I'm going to break it open. I'm going to get
Speaker 1: that guy out. And that's what happens in nature. I
Speaker 1: just kind of took it from there and just went
Speaker 1: to the creep field. I used everything that I experienced
Speaker 1: in life and took it onto the field.
Speaker 2: Did you ever have any close calls with any of.
Speaker 1: Those, well, life, Yeah, we went fishing, me my best mate.
Speaker 1: We walked into a female line once. I don't know
Speaker 1: who got a bigger fright, whether she got the bigger
Speaker 1: fright than what we did. We'd parked at this point.
Speaker 1: We used to fish at this dam and then became privatized,
Speaker 1: so we would still sneak on and park our cord
Speaker 1: the bush and then walk and yeah, we came within
Speaker 1: about twenty meters of her and so about a pitch length,
Speaker 1: and yeah, she got a bigger fright than what we did.
Speaker 1: I reckon, I could see her eyes and then we
Speaker 1: just back pedaled. And she cruised off and that was that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I've been chased by hippo many times.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it must be terrifying. They there deadliest animal in
Speaker 2: the world.
Speaker 1: Don't Yeah, yeah, yeah they are. But you time it,
Speaker 1: you know, you just you know, like when they like
Speaker 1: you can see they're coming, coming, coming, coming, coming, and
Speaker 1: then when they get like within five meters or ten
Speaker 1: meters of the water, I kind of work it out,
Speaker 1: like can they get out quicker than I can get away?
Speaker 1: And when they do get out, you fucking go, you know,
Speaker 1: you get up that tree as quickly as you can.
Speaker 1: That happened many, many times. Yeah, a couple of times
Speaker 1: that we were fishing when we would be young and
Speaker 1: want to cross over because we don't walk around the wole.
Speaker 1: So we walked through but way deep and then get
Speaker 1: to the other side and see there's a big croc,
Speaker 1: like a three meter crock, and you just think, why
Speaker 1: do we do that? You know, Like, yeah, Discovery Channel
Speaker 1: ruined everything for me because now I sit back and
Speaker 1: I think, how did I not die?
Speaker 2: I'm also very very happy that I've managed to get
Speaker 2: a park the car from your it's a freaking accent.
Speaker 2: Now that you're retired, do you fully appreciate how incredible
Speaker 2: it is that a guy from that town ended up
Speaker 2: being the number one fast bowler in the world for
Speaker 2: a significant amount of time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I still don't know how that happened. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've told you my story, which is a very funny one,
Speaker 1: and we'll keep that one private, but it's as good.
Speaker 1: But you know, there was something in the water in
Speaker 1: my street that I grew up in because like one
Speaker 1: of my best mates went on to become a really
Speaker 1: good photographer and he's on Instagram. Who who got you
Speaker 1: to follow? Now? He's been on Jimmy Fallon and we've
Speaker 1: spoken about this and I'm just giving him heads up.
Speaker 1: Marlon da Toy. And then there was like two other
Speaker 1: people that were that were in my street. They were
Speaker 1: the same age as me. They went onto one his
Speaker 1: name is Logan Crobola. He went on to be the
Speaker 1: lead singer of a band in South Africa called Cutting
Speaker 1: Jade and they were massive in South Africa. And then
Speaker 1: Warren his brother. Logan's brother, Warren was an Olympic swimmer
Speaker 1: for South Africa and I think he won bronze at
Speaker 1: one of the Olympics and we all lived in the
Speaker 1: same street growing up out of this one town. So yeah,
Speaker 1: we got good. We got the good water. You know,
Speaker 1: everybody else got the shitty water.
Speaker 2: Like I don't know, they brewedomed off there. So this
Speaker 2: podcast is all about resilience, and obviously you've shown a
Speaker 2: heap just coming from such a small town to end
Speaker 2: up where you are. But we were talking about the
Speaker 2: pressures of being an elite athlete and also you know
Speaker 2: the Indian team for example, and a billion people watching
Speaker 2: them in those big pressure moments, and you told me
Speaker 2: the hardest moment of your cricketing career was the twenty
Speaker 2: fifteen World Cup and the semifinal. For context for people,
Speaker 2: can you give people an idea of the pressure that
Speaker 2: exists on South African cricketers in World Cups and the
Speaker 2: history that exists there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we've just come with us. We've been
Speaker 1: such a good team. You know, we came from a
Speaker 1: pretty difficult We had a bad start, you know in
Speaker 1: the world. You know, we had a Party eight and
Speaker 1: we we weren't great, you know, and we've tried to
Speaker 1: rectify that stuff since and we've come onto the map
Speaker 1: and we've done really well. We've created some great cricketers
Speaker 1: and we've beaten the best teams in the world. But
Speaker 1: then when it goes to World Cups, we haven't managed
Speaker 1: to win one yet. And they're tough because they happened
Speaker 1: once every four years and we haven't been around for
Speaker 1: a very long time. I think since ninety two we
Speaker 1: were kind of reintroduced, but we were a really good
Speaker 1: cricket team back then. The disappointing thing is that we've
Speaker 1: had so many fantastic cricketers come out of South Africa
Speaker 1: and at some point in time we've all also played
Speaker 1: in one team. So you would expect something, you know,
Speaker 1: something from us, but it just hasn't happened. And I'm
Speaker 1: hoping now coming into the future. Now, like with the
Speaker 1: amount of World Cups they are, they happen kind of
Speaker 1: like regularly now twenty twenty World Cups, the World Cup
Speaker 1: happens every four years. With them happening so regularly, now
Speaker 1: there might be a chance that South Africa might sneak one,
Speaker 1: you know, in the in the next five to ten years,
Speaker 1: we might be able to win one or two and
Speaker 1: that would be fantastic because we've produced some great cricketers.
Speaker 1: But it does come with a lot of pressure, especially
Speaker 1: because our other favorite team in South Africa is the
Speaker 1: Springbok Rugany team who've won a couple of World Cups already,
Speaker 1: and we're good mates of them, and they're not scry
Speaker 1: to tell us that either. So yeah, it's been rough,
Speaker 1: and I think in twenty fifteen we felt like that
Speaker 1: was the one. Maybe twenty and eleven we felt like
Speaker 1: we stood a good chance and we really messed it
Speaker 1: up against New Zealand. We were walking game essentially, and
Speaker 1: we messed it up, knocked out of that one. And
Speaker 1: then in twenty fifteen we felt like things were things
Speaker 1: were happening, and yeah, Brandon McCollums team came out and
Speaker 1: just blew us away with the bat, and unfortunately I
Speaker 1: was the I was on the receiving end of the
Speaker 1: runs being scored off my bowling, and that I'll just
Speaker 1: have to live with for the rest of my love.
Speaker 2: You say that with a half smile on your face,
Speaker 2: but you mean it, don't You have to live with
Speaker 2: that feeling?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean I bowled that final ball,
Speaker 1: you know, And it wouldn't have made it any different
Speaker 1: if he, like if he nicked it for four. I
Speaker 1: would have felt different, but he smashed me for six,
Speaker 1: like out into the crowd, you know. And it was
Speaker 1: crazy because it was Grant Elliott. I think he had
Speaker 1: he got mad in the match, but he had nicked
Speaker 1: and prodded and dropped and mishit everything up until that
Speaker 1: one shot, you know. So it was like that was
Speaker 1: even more like a rubbed it in even more for
Speaker 1: me because at that point I just felt like this
Speaker 1: guy couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.
Speaker 1: And then bang he hits me out of the ground,
Speaker 1: you know. So and credit to him because he just
Speaker 1: stuck in and he got the whole He got New
Speaker 1: Zealand over the line. But yeah, that has to live
Speaker 1: with me. You know. It's not like he nicked me
Speaker 1: for four and I go, oh, you know, we lost
Speaker 1: it because he edged it for four. I went for six.
Speaker 1: That's the That's like the biggest insult for a bowler
Speaker 1: that can happen. As you get hit for six and
Speaker 1: then get knocked out of a WORL Cup. It's like
Speaker 1: a double whammy.
Speaker 2: So for context for people listening, like you said, there
Speaker 2: were so many chances to get him out, miss run out,
Speaker 2: to ab you know, was so upset. Abd Villiers was
Speaker 2: so upset after that, and there were chances it just
Speaker 2: happened to be that you were the bowler in the
Speaker 2: final over. They needed twelve off the final over. Can
Speaker 2: you tell me the mindset of an elite athlete in
Speaker 2: that moment, with the context of the pressure that you've
Speaker 2: just spoken about of a country like South Africa.
Speaker 1: So I wasn't feeling any pressure. That's the crazy thing.
Speaker 1: I was standing at third man that over before I
Speaker 1: can't remember who boldy over may have been more and
Speaker 1: more coal, and I was standing at third man, and
Speaker 1: I was very relaxed, and Gary Kirsten was standing. There
Speaker 1: was Gary Russell Dominger may have been there, and they
Speaker 1: were looking at me. I could see the bench and
Speaker 1: I actually turned to them. I said, boys, relax, I've
Speaker 1: got this like I've got it. It's not an issue.
Speaker 1: I've got it. That's how relaxed I felt. But Dan Vittoria,
Speaker 1: I think first ball may have cut me for four
Speaker 1: very short boundary and then ran one to a buy
Speaker 1: or something. You know, there's some small little things. I
Speaker 1: can't remember the whole over. I watched it last year
Speaker 1: for the first time over, and I hadn't wanted to
Speaker 1: watch it because I was just like, I just want
Speaker 1: to get rid of this memory. It's a terrible memory.
Speaker 1: It's bad enough getting knocked out. I don't want to
Speaker 1: watch all six balls. I don't really care what happened.
Speaker 1: You know, we lost. That's all that really, you know, matters.
Speaker 1: But there were little moments in that game that were
Speaker 1: leading up to the last over where we should have won,
Speaker 1: where we could have won, and a lot of focus
Speaker 1: then goes to the ultimate thing, which is the runs
Speaker 1: being it and I have to live with that, like
Speaker 1: I said, but leading up to that, I know in
Speaker 1: my mind that there was a lot of those little
Speaker 1: things that we should have done better. But at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, I take the run for it.
Speaker 2: So when that six is hit, how do you feel?
Speaker 1: Oh? Shattered? You know, just absolutely like because you feel
Speaker 1: like you've got it. You know. It's not like I
Speaker 1: was not planning on losing that, you know, not even
Speaker 1: as I let go of the ball. It wasn't like
Speaker 1: I was running in thinking to myself, I'm going to
Speaker 1: bowl this ball to prevent him from winning. I'm going
Speaker 1: to bowl this ball to get us over the line.
Speaker 1: That's the mindset. You know, there's two different ways of
Speaker 1: thinking about it. And often if you're thinking the other way,
Speaker 1: where you think I need a bowl of delivery to
Speaker 1: stop him from hitting me for runs, that's when you
Speaker 1: go for runs. Whereas if your mindset is I'm going
Speaker 1: to bowl this ball to get him out or to
Speaker 1: fucking nail this, that's when you get it right. And
Speaker 1: that was my mindset. But yeah, he got it right.
Speaker 1: I mean he was obviously thinking the same way I was,
Speaker 1: and slightly more and bang.
Speaker 2: You know the moments after, how do you feel?
Speaker 1: Yeah, completely shouted and I went down and immediately like
Speaker 1: I went into you get like this fight or flight
Speaker 1: kind of like mode, you know, and I immediately just
Speaker 1: thought about everybody else that was in the team, like
Speaker 1: straight away, like I was like, don't think about yourself,
Speaker 1: don't think about yourself. This is what I'm telling myself.
Speaker 1: So I got up. I may have been lying down.
Speaker 1: I think Grant actually picked me up, ye, image, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was amazing, and I don't remember I said well done,
Speaker 1: But at the moment I didn't want to like give
Speaker 1: up too much, but I want to show that I'm
Speaker 1: happy for them because they played a fantastic game, you know,
Speaker 1: Like I love the game and I actually don't mind losing,
Speaker 1: like especially if somebody else has played incredibly well. I'm
Speaker 1: a big fan of cricket, you know, I'm a big
Speaker 1: fan of winning and losing. You learn a lot more
Speaker 1: when you lose than when you do when you're winning,
Speaker 1: and that's just part of life. You know. I've actually
Speaker 1: lost a lot in my life than i've won, luckily
Speaker 1: out a good career, and people can argue that, but like,
Speaker 1: I don't mind losing, you know, so quickly you had
Speaker 1: to like slip into that mode that this is not
Speaker 1: about you, this is not about you. Walk into the
Speaker 1: dressing room and there was tears all around. There was
Speaker 1: a lot of young guys that were that were crying
Speaker 1: and they were they were upsets, and I just felt like,
Speaker 1: this is a moment for you. This is the bigger
Speaker 1: moment for you right now. It's to go around and
Speaker 1: tell the boys it's gonna be okay. So I'd like
Speaker 1: went to everybody with a smile on my face, not joyous,
Speaker 1: but with a smile on my face. It's gonna be okay.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be okay. Don't worry, boys, you got another one.
Speaker 1: We can have another one, you know, and like really
Speaker 1: hold hold it together. And then I can remember walking
Speaker 1: into my room at the hotel and as I walked in,
Speaker 1: I just fucking screamed, you know, like threw my back
Speaker 1: back on the floor, took my head in my hands,
Speaker 1: and like just like I just fucking screamed NonStop. Like
Speaker 1: it was. You almost want to get upset about it,
Speaker 1: you know, because I feel sorry for that guy. You know,
Speaker 1: he had to have a lot of he had a
Speaker 1: lot on him. Anyway, We've come and gone yeah, and
Speaker 1: I'm yeah, I'm still alive.
Speaker 2: You're getting upset over it, You've got tears in your eyes.
Speaker 2: What is it that gets you upset in this moment?
Speaker 1: I just it's it's a lot to put onto people,
Speaker 1: you know. And I think at that time, like there
Speaker 1: was a lot of other people that could have like
Speaker 1: held that responsibility, like, but I carried a lot, you know,
Speaker 1: I felt like I carried a lot. I'm sure everybody
Speaker 1: else did. I'm pretty certain Abe felt the same and
Speaker 1: more needed and everything. But I think because it happened
Speaker 1: to me, like I wanted to carry a lot more
Speaker 1: than everybody else, and I wanted to show a lot
Speaker 1: more that everything would be okay. But it was heartbreaking,
Speaker 1: you know. It was.
Speaker 2: You put a lot of pressure on yourself and then
Speaker 2: you feel it externally as well. How did you get
Speaker 2: through that evening and then the coming days?
Speaker 1: So the next day was great, just kind of like
Speaker 1: I can't remember how I fell asleep that night. It
Speaker 1: was just a shit night, you know, you kick and
Speaker 1: toss and turn and everything. But we were we were
Speaker 1: kind of fucked because we couldn't get a flight out
Speaker 1: of out of Auckland, so we had to wait. And
Speaker 1: I think we spent two days in Auckland and it
Speaker 1: was actually really nice because I think Aby's family was.
Speaker 1: There was a couple of different families that have come
Speaker 1: to watch. And the next day we all got together,
Speaker 1: we went for lunch. You could see the boys were hurting,
Speaker 1: Like the guys were hurting, but we try to kick
Speaker 1: into normal life as quickly as possible, just for that time,
Speaker 1: enjoy our company because we're all rushing off to the
Speaker 1: IPL after that. And yeah, it was difficult because then
Speaker 1: when you go when you were at least when you
Speaker 1: got your mates and your teammates and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: You can kind of bounce off each other. You go
Speaker 1: outside and get some fresh air, and someone will come
Speaker 1: out there and they'll they'll put them around you, or
Speaker 1: you put your hom around them and you say you're okay. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, you're okay. You're not alone. But then when
Speaker 1: you go to the IPL, often you go to a
Speaker 1: team and there's nobody else that's from your team is
Speaker 1: in that space. Is really difficult. Now now you are
Speaker 1: alone again for a long period and you have to
Speaker 1: start to put out performances again, Like how you switch
Speaker 1: over is so tough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so how you cope in the recovery of that moment?
Speaker 2: How long did it stay with you for?
Speaker 1: I've faked it for a solid year, at least a
Speaker 1: solid solid year of just trying to pretend that I
Speaker 1: had shit together, but like I didn't, and even now,
Speaker 1: like I'm upset because it's just hard. You know, it
Speaker 1: would have been nice to win a work up. I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm never gonna be able to win one as a
Speaker 1: player anymore. That opportunity's coming gone. Although I feel fine,
Speaker 1: I'm standing there kicking, my arms are good, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm like, get me back in there. Let's go for it.
Speaker 1: But that opportunity is coming gone, so that's upsetting, you know.
Speaker 1: It's like looking back in your life and going there
Speaker 1: was a window there where, but they don't come often,
Speaker 1: you know, missed it.
Speaker 2: It's a lot to carry, it is it is.
Speaker 1: But that's sport, you know. That's the that's the bargain
Speaker 1: you make with yourself. You know, it's almost like making
Speaker 1: a deal with the devil in a sense, like you know,
Speaker 1: like you sell your soul to the game as well.
Speaker 1: It's not just a skill thing. You really do, you know,
Speaker 1: and you put a lot on the line, and not
Speaker 1: just for yourself but everybody that's around you, like family
Speaker 1: who don't get to see you, and your partners and
Speaker 1: your kids and dogs. And I get home, my dogs
Speaker 1: don't recognize me. They like hide away from me for
Speaker 1: the first few days because they're like this guy he
Speaker 1: comes and gives us love, and then he leaves one month,
Speaker 1: and then we're supposed to love you like what you know,
Speaker 1: And that's the kind of that's how you sell yourself
Speaker 1: to the game a little bit. You you really you
Speaker 1: go all in, you know, and there's a lot of
Speaker 1: other things that kind of like have to bear the
Speaker 1: brunt of that as well as yourself, you know.
Speaker 2: So in that moment, that's everything that you're thinking of,
Speaker 2: everything I've given up, everything I've sacrificed, all the people
Speaker 2: that have sacrificed, and I didn't deliver. In that moment,
Speaker 2: Is that what's going through your head?
Speaker 1: And of all comes flooding in, doesn't it? You know?
Speaker 1: And for everybody else it doesn't. They don't mind, you know,
Speaker 1: They're like, it's okay, don't worry, but it is. You know.
Speaker 1: I feel like I dragged you guys through this. You know,
Speaker 1: I'll let you. I don't see you for two three years,
Speaker 1: you know, like come to the wedding, come to the funeral,
Speaker 1: No cons I'm going to I'm going to fucking this place.
Speaker 1: You know, I've got to go and play. I'm prepping.
Speaker 1: I'm getting ready for a World Cup. You miss so
Speaker 1: much and then when you don't get what you are
Speaker 1: going for, you feel like a dick, you know, like
Speaker 1: how did I wasn't there more important things? Then? Why
Speaker 1: do I have to live with this feeling now? You know,
Speaker 1: of disappointment, you know, But that's that's that's sports, you know,
Speaker 1: that's life actually.
Speaker 2: So when you say it took a year that you
Speaker 2: faked it, how much did it impact you and how
Speaker 2: did it impact you?
Speaker 1: I think it impacted me a lot on the on
Speaker 1: what people perceived to It had like a knock on
Speaker 1: effect into the way that other people looked at the
Speaker 1: way that I went about my business. And I think
Speaker 1: for a year, like I was then not included in
Speaker 1: one or two teams, or I was picked up by teams,
Speaker 1: but like you know, he's not our first choice anymore.
Speaker 1: He's just had a bad woke cup didn't have a
Speaker 1: bad walk up about one ball went out of the ground.
Speaker 1: But anyway, that was the year that I felt, especially
Speaker 1: in my mind, like that's how sort going, you know,
Speaker 1: everything I was like shit there against me now, you know.
Speaker 1: And that was also really tough.
Speaker 2: So whether it's real or not, that's real in your head.
Speaker 1: It's really in your head. Yeah, it's one hundred percent
Speaker 1: really in your head. Most coaches would say, no, I'm
Speaker 1: not even thinking that, and I'm like, I swear you're
Speaker 1: thinking that. You start to see these demons and ghosts
Speaker 1: that really don't exist.
Speaker 2: You know, did you talk about it or did you
Speaker 2: hold onto it and keep it private how much you
Speaker 2: were struggling with it.
Speaker 1: I think I hold on to it for a long time,
Speaker 1: and that's tough. I think it still just sticks with
Speaker 1: you. You know, you can't get rid of it. It's happened,
Speaker 1: It's real, it happened. You can work on yourself and
Speaker 1: get rid of those little demons that you see that
Speaker 1: you think other people are thinking and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: You can clear that stuff, but the reality of the
Speaker 1: situation is that it happened and it's there, so that
Speaker 1: I can never get rid of. You can just become
Speaker 1: like you can accept it that it happened and you
Speaker 1: can now move on. And that's the beauty of sport
Speaker 1: is because is what's beautiful about sports that you get
Speaker 1: another opportunity. So come twenty nineteen, we had another opportunity. Bang,
Speaker 1: it's time to go again. But this time around, I
Speaker 1: went in with a little bit of a sore shoulder,
Speaker 1: and unfortunately I had to come home. That replaced me.
Speaker 1: I had to go home. So I think that like
Speaker 1: the year building up to the twenty nineteen World Cup,
Speaker 1: I found o my job was I had two kinds
Speaker 1: of jobs. One was on the field to execute a
Speaker 1: skill and win games. Of the ball in my hand.
Speaker 1: And secondly was the experience of what I've experienced not
Speaker 1: just through cricket, but also winning and losing and trying
Speaker 1: to prep guys it would be amazing to win. I
Speaker 1: haven't won one. I've seen other teams win and it
Speaker 1: looks fucking great, I promise you, but I've lost a
Speaker 1: lot and I want to tell you that that's not nice.
Speaker 1: So if you don't win, this is the things that
Speaker 1: you need to be aware of. And I felt like
Speaker 1: that was kind of my role. Wins the World Cup
Speaker 1: and I left and I haven't really played for South
Speaker 1: Africa since. So my only hope is that there's not
Speaker 1: a lot of guys that are in that setup right
Speaker 1: now that were feeling what I felt and went through
Speaker 1: what I felt for a long time, because it can
Speaker 1: impact you for pretty much. It was a young team
Speaker 1: for the rest of their careers, and you don't want
Speaker 1: you don't want that. You know, you want these guys
Speaker 1: to you want them to win walk Cups, not to
Speaker 1: sit three or four years later with the same fucking
Speaker 1: feeling you.
Speaker 2: Know you're listening to. Ordinarily, speaking with Dale Stain, you
Speaker 2: said that you finally sat down to watch that twenty
Speaker 2: fifteen over last year, was it? Yeah, tell me about that.
Speaker 1: Well, that was terrible because we were in lockdown. I
Speaker 1: think everyone was depressed at that point and probably put
Speaker 1: on about ten kilos more from eating all the shit
Speaker 1: that like is just around the house because there's nothing
Speaker 1: to do. So one, I'm feeling terrible. I actually went
Speaker 1: the other way, to be honest with you, Like a
Speaker 1: lot of people like sat at home and they I
Speaker 1: went the other way. I didn't eat a lot and
Speaker 1: I actually lost a lot of weights. I weighed the
Speaker 1: lowest I think I've ever weighed in my life since
Speaker 1: finishing school. I dropped down to like seventy four seventy
Speaker 1: five killers and I'm roughly around eighty eighty one eighty two.
Speaker 1: So I lost quite some some weights. And that's what, like,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I was depressed, but like that's the
Speaker 1: signs of what depression can do, is weight loss, you know,
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: Because you were weighing up your future and things like
Speaker 2: that at the time.
Speaker 1: I was looking at it all and like I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is a year out of what I want to do,
Speaker 1: and it's just you know, it was tough and it's like,
Speaker 1: as a fast bowler, you don't. I'm thirty seven, thirty eight.
Speaker 1: Now it's going to be difficult to kind of pick
Speaker 1: up from this, you know, not only nor Kio who's
Speaker 1: twenty five, fully fit and absolute machine. You know, I
Speaker 1: know I need a little bit longer. So anyway, we
Speaker 1: were sitting in a situation where no one was happy.
Speaker 1: I don't think the world is happy. And then to
Speaker 1: rub salt into the wound, South African Sport tav the
Speaker 1: supersport starts to play like the disappointments of World Cups,
Speaker 1: like fantastic, Thanks guys. I almost wanted to jump on
Speaker 1: the phone to Alan Donald and all other fast bowlers
Speaker 1: and other South Africans and Joina WhatsApp group and like
Speaker 1: send them ice cream, Ben and Jerry's ice cream and
Speaker 1: ship because it's like to see what they're doing to us, guys,
Speaker 1: look at this, What the hell? But it was terrible.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I watched the game. It wasn't a highlights
Speaker 1: it was the whole game. So it was on TV
Speaker 1: for the duration of the day, and I didn't watch the
Speaker 1: whole game, and I focused in on like the last
Speaker 1: three hours. So when I went and sat down. I
Speaker 1: was watching it, and like anybody else, it's the first
Speaker 1: time I'm watching it in like four years. So I
Speaker 1: was sitting on the edge of my seat because it
Speaker 1: was it was an exhilarating and exciting game, you know,
Speaker 1: and then when you come on, I know the outcome,
Speaker 1: but I'm still kind of fucking hoping that something's something
Speaker 1: different is gonna happen, you know. And I watched the
Speaker 1: six Balls and I just walked outside and that's absolutely
Speaker 1: burst into tears, and it was it was just sad,
Speaker 1: you know. It was a sad time, and there was
Speaker 1: a sad that was a sad moment and my best
Speaker 1: I was lucky that one of my best friends was
Speaker 1: actually staying with us. My missus was reading or something
Speaker 1: like that, and he just came outside and gave me
Speaker 1: a big hug. And he's a bigger softie than I am.
Speaker 1: So he started crying and I was like, can you
Speaker 1: please stop fucking crying because now it's gonna make it
Speaker 1: worse for me, and he's like, it's okay, it's okay.
Speaker 1: I'm like, just let's you know, let's move on. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it was the first time that I watched the six
Speaker 1: balls that I bowled since, yeah, it had happened. It
Speaker 1: was almost five years later.
Speaker 2: What were the tears about do you think?
Speaker 1: I think just everything. You know. At the time, it
Speaker 1: was really difficult for the world. You know, we're all
Speaker 1: in this lockdown and didn't know where we were going. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just it was just tough, you know. And
Speaker 1: then it just brought that that feeling back again. You know,
Speaker 1: this is a sad, sad, sad time. It wasn't a
Speaker 1: great time to watch that. I think if I had
Speaker 1: been happy somewhere, I would have been like, you know,
Speaker 1: that shit happens. It's okay, it's not problem. But I
Speaker 1: think the moment was not a good times a pick.
Speaker 2: Was it healing at all?
Speaker 1: A little bit? A little bit because it happened and
Speaker 1: I was actually seeing somebody. I was seeing a psychologist.
Speaker 1: When you start to decide that you're going to do
Speaker 1: things like retire, and when you're looking at the end
Speaker 1: of you start to question, there's a lot of questions
Speaker 1: that come in is it the right thing to do?
Speaker 1: I got to let go of a lot of things.
Speaker 1: So it was suggested that I just go and speak
Speaker 1: to somebody and just get the stuff off my chest
Speaker 1: rather than just kind of with all these thoughts in
Speaker 1: my head. And I was lucky enough that I had
Speaker 1: a session with him in like two or three days
Speaker 1: after it was on Zoom and I told him and
Speaker 1: he's like, how do you feel? And I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: at the moment, I was incredibly sad, but now like
Speaker 1: I'm okay, you know, like it's not too bad, and
Speaker 1: it was good to just be able to talk about
Speaker 1: it and just kind of get that out.
Speaker 2: What other stuff were you talking about? And you don't
Speaker 2: have to share anything you don't want to, but what
Speaker 2: other stuff were you talking about with your psych Just I.
Speaker 1: Was coming up to retirement, there was things like contracts
Speaker 1: that weren't happening. I worry. I grew up in a
Speaker 1: small town and like I grew up in a family
Speaker 1: that didn't have a lot of money, and I provide
Speaker 1: a lot for my family. I helped them out where
Speaker 1: I can. And now all of a sudden, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be earning what I am and
Speaker 1: and I know that I've got to continue to provide
Speaker 1: and help. So like that was a big concern for me.
Speaker 1: I was like, how I'm gonna do this and I'm
Speaker 1: fortunate that I've done well through my life, but I've
Speaker 1: also like saved well. So like I start to worry,
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, what am I going to do?
Speaker 1: And I'll panic a little bit. And so I had
Speaker 1: to like speak to him and say him, these are
Speaker 1: what I'm feeling, and he's like, okay, cool, you know,
Speaker 1: let's speak to Dave, who's my manager, and he's as well,
Speaker 1: he's also my financial advisor, that's what he does, and like,
Speaker 1: let's just put a lot of this these worries to bed,
Speaker 1: you know. And so a lot of these questions are
Speaker 1: actually that worries that had in my mind were actually
Speaker 1: not worries at all. In other people's opinions, they were
Speaker 1: like we can, we can sort them up. But for me,
Speaker 1: they were just, you know, they were causing massive headaches
Speaker 1: and anxiety and all that kind of stuff. So it
Speaker 1: was good to speak to him and then just understand
Speaker 1: that it's gonna be okay. Everything's gonna be okay. He
Speaker 1: was kind of doing the same thing that I was
Speaker 1: doing when I was in twenty fifteen, going to everybody
Speaker 1: and tapping them on the shoulder saying it's gonna be okay.
Speaker 1: So I actually asked my psychiatrists, psychologist, psychiatrist, to somebody
Speaker 1: that can give you medication. He conned. I was like,
Speaker 1: do you speak to somebody because you're going to have
Speaker 1: to deal with my shit. He's like, I do. I'm okay,
Speaker 1: don't worry about me. I'm like, because I'm worried about you.
Speaker 1: We have this conversation. He's like, stop, this is about you.
Speaker 2: That once again speaks volumes to you that you're in
Speaker 2: a sack session and you're worried about what the ski
Speaker 2: is going to do with your shit.
Speaker 1: He's a nice guy. I just want to make sure
Speaker 1: that he's okay. You know, everybody needs to have their
Speaker 1: shit in order.
Speaker 2: I love that, but it speaks to the pressure that
Speaker 2: you've clearly felt as a kid growing up and then
Speaker 2: as an elite athlete. You've carried You seem to have
Speaker 2: carried a lot on your shoulders, whether it was because
Speaker 2: other people put it on you, or whether that's just
Speaker 2: your personality type that you go jump on my back.
Speaker 2: I'll take you there.
Speaker 1: I think for a long time I was also sheltered
Speaker 1: from a lot of stuff. I must be honest with you,
Speaker 1: like you know, there was a lot of things that
Speaker 1: I was like kept away from even my family, like
Speaker 1: you know certain like I don't know whether somebody had
Speaker 1: passed away, or you know, my dog growing up had
Speaker 1: died or whatever it is, and I would be playing
Speaker 1: a test match or you know something, Well, my parents
Speaker 1: got divorced. My parents got divorced. That's not an issue.
Speaker 1: They're fully grown up. They're welcome and they're very happy
Speaker 1: right now. My dad remarried my mom. They stoked, but
Speaker 1: like they didn't like my family would shelter me from
Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff and didn't tell me these
Speaker 1: kinds of things, so that because you were playing, because
Speaker 1: I was playing, they didn't want to, you know, have
Speaker 1: me worry about this kind of stuff. And when I
Speaker 1: was playing for South Africa, this goes even into South Africa.
Speaker 1: We had somebody like Graham Smith who would shelter the
Speaker 1: players from what's happening with the board like CSA like
Speaker 1: we can pressure to do this. We've got you know,
Speaker 1: quota system wants to go up and all of this
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, and he would keep a lit on
Speaker 1: a lot of that kind of stuff, which is don't
Speaker 1: get me wrong, I mean it's very important that you know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of inclusion from South Africa's passing it.
Speaker 1: I'm not against it. I'm just saying that Graham was
Speaker 1: there sheltering us, and for a long period of time,
Speaker 1: I just got to do what I love doing. And
Speaker 1: then when I got to about twenty fifteen, maybe even
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, I became twenty thirteen, I became more a
Speaker 1: senior player in the side and now has become more
Speaker 1: and more aware of some of this other stuff. Eyes
Speaker 1: wide open, eyes an arson to open up a little bit,
Speaker 1: secrets from back home that are were kept from me
Speaker 1: to make sure that I do well on the cricket field.
Speaker 1: I was starting to come out and bubble out and
Speaker 1: all of this, and all of a sudden, you realize
Speaker 1: there's a lot more crap going on that you than
Speaker 1: you thought. This road is not as smooth as it
Speaker 1: as it was made out to be. The sweeping is
Speaker 1: now staring. There's a lot of speed bumps and and
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. And I think then once I
Speaker 1: started to become aware of all of this stuff, that's
Speaker 1: when a lot of this, like I'm not going to
Speaker 1: say I'm depressed, but a lot of this anxiety and
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff sot to kick in, and
Speaker 1: worrying for family and worrying about teammates and their well
Speaker 1: being and other people's well being really kicked into overdrive.
Speaker 1: But for a long time, I just had to worry
Speaker 1: about myself. I was sheltered a lot of the time.
Speaker 2: So it's a fine line between caring about others and
Speaker 2: feeling anxious about others, and you were stepping over that line.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, But now I'm just in full camode like
Speaker 1: that's all.
Speaker 2: I do, full camera.
Speaker 1: I think my family called me ICU, like, can we
Speaker 1: step into the ICU ord? You just you're gonna look
Speaker 1: after you. Oh, you're gonna look after us.
Speaker 2: That is brilliant because that is so you. You really are.
Speaker 2: Like you take drinks to security guards and you genuinely
Speaker 2: they were thirsty. You genuinely. This is the thing about
Speaker 2: you that I've realized is there's lots of people who
Speaker 2: are nice, right, but you genuinely care about how people
Speaker 2: are you do. I've seen it, not just with me,
Speaker 2: but lots of people that you've come across while working
Speaker 2: with you. You don't just ask how they're doing, to ask
Speaker 2: the question and be polite, You genuinely care about the response,
Speaker 2: and if the response is not a nice one, you
Speaker 2: try to do something to change that.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, And I think that's one of the problems
Speaker 1: that I've got in my life is because I'm not
Speaker 1: saying I get involved, but I do take it on,
Speaker 1: you know now especially, and then that's it eats up
Speaker 1: a little bit of me a little bit, you know,
Speaker 1: I do care, but like it means that my worrying
Speaker 1: and my anxiety goes up just a little bit every
Speaker 1: single time. But I'm fine, I don't mind, Like I'm
Speaker 1: all for it.
Speaker 2: Does your anxiety worry you a little bit?
Speaker 1: Uh? It does. And I'm no hippie or anything like that,
Speaker 1: so I'm not against like if someone had to say
Speaker 1: he has some medication or something like that, but I'm
Speaker 1: I'm I don't take anything. I'm pretty much high on
Speaker 1: life really, and.
Speaker 2: The amount of caffeine you drink me the Coca Cola.
Speaker 1: Sitting next, I drink a lot of Coca cola. Just
Speaker 1: to debunk what anybody's heard. I do drink about two
Speaker 1: liters as of coke a day.
Speaker 2: I've seen it.
Speaker 1: And now Lisa, who's the manager, has introduced me to
Speaker 1: a single espresso on top of a cappuccino in the morning,
Speaker 1: and I am bouncing off walls.
Speaker 2: It's bad, just quietly for anyone who's listening who suffers
Speaker 2: from anxiety. That is not a good medical advice from Towns.
Speaker 1: Not a good idea at all. Promise you talk, Foster,
Speaker 1: is you think faster than you You need to slow
Speaker 1: down And I'm not slowing down.
Speaker 2: The injuries, the shoulder injury was the worst one you
Speaker 2: went through, right, how much physical pain were you in?
Speaker 1: That was the worst pain I've ever felt in my life.
Speaker 1: Like physical pain is the worst thing I've ever felt
Speaker 1: in my life. It happened broke the It's called the
Speaker 1: corocoid process. It sits in the front over here. It's
Speaker 1: like a little bone and your peck kind of hangs
Speaker 1: off of It's almost like a hangar for that muscle,
Speaker 1: and the shoulder bone kind of popped out and hit
Speaker 1: it and broke it clean in half. And that was
Speaker 1: That was a delivery that I bowled to. I think
Speaker 1: Wada was batting in Perth and as it happened, I
Speaker 1: heard this this crack, and I thought maybe the infraspinatus,
Speaker 1: which is the muscle that sits behind your shoulder kind
Speaker 1: of helps is infraspinasus And I got to remember the
Speaker 1: other one kind of helps the shoulder move. I thought
Speaker 1: that had just snapped. And I was like, cool, that's
Speaker 1: six to eight weeks. That's fine. They'll you know, I'll
Speaker 1: go and probably have surgery and they'll reattach that and
Speaker 1: it's a muscle, it will be fine. But then, yeah,
Speaker 1: when you got to the hospital and they did the
Speaker 1: mrin and they're like, oh, you know, the coracoid's clean
Speaker 1: in half. And the doctors said to me, did you
Speaker 1: fall off a ladder or did you have motorbike accidents?
Speaker 1: How did this happen? I said, I was bowling cricket.
Speaker 1: He's couldn't believe it, but yeah, pain is the worst
Speaker 1: pain I've ever felt. I walked off the field and
Speaker 1: walked straight into the dressing room. The fizzio said, jump
Speaker 1: on the jump of the fizzy bed. That's have a look,
Speaker 1: and I just bent down on my knees. That the
Speaker 1: fizzier bed was round about like head high at that point,
Speaker 1: and I bent down and again, like this time, I
Speaker 1: was crying because it was so sore, like put tears
Speaker 1: in my eyes, like it was that sore. Pain was
Speaker 1: just shooting through the back and like down the front,
Speaker 1: and probably a little bit of a little bit of
Speaker 1: tears because it was also that was that that was
Speaker 1: that Now, you know, I knew something was really bad,
Speaker 1: but that was pain. That was really sore.
Speaker 2: How much did you play with the pain once you
Speaker 2: started to come back from that?
Speaker 1: Once I came back from that, then it was every
Speaker 1: day like it never got the same for the rest
Speaker 1: of your career, For the rest of my career, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was never the same. Wo afterwards, I could still bowl,
Speaker 1: like wasn't an issue. Bowling wasn't an issue, but pain
Speaker 1: was there, Like neurally, pain was there. It wasn't going anywhere.
Speaker 1: That came from my neck into my shoulder, down my
Speaker 1: shoulder towards the elbow, but especially like in that top
Speaker 1: that padding like you know what your collar boners, there's
Speaker 1: a little bit of like a muscle, there's padding there,
Speaker 1: especially there into my neck. It was just sore, like
Speaker 1: like eight out of ten, saw like at least a
Speaker 1: seven turn eight out of ten. So when I saw
Speaker 1: my shoulder doctor and I said to him, I'm only
Speaker 1: going to focus on twenty twenty cricket. Right now, I said,
Speaker 1: you need to give me something, give me some painkillers
Speaker 1: that is just going to take the pain away, because
Speaker 1: I honestly can't deal with this anymore, Like I don't care.
Speaker 1: So he was like, all right, cool. So he gave
Speaker 1: me like a dose of stuff that I took and
Speaker 1: that worked for a good couple months and then your
Speaker 1: body starts to get used to it and then you
Speaker 1: just back into that pain again. But by the end,
Speaker 1: now I'm not gonna lie like I was fine. I
Speaker 1: actually felt the best I felt in a long time.
Speaker 1: It spending really quickly, and yeah, I think I just
Speaker 1: probably knew that the writing was on the wall for me,
Speaker 1: like not in terms of physical, just like mental. I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't want to do this anymore, you know,
Speaker 1: And I think when I released that, I started to
Speaker 1: feel good again, and I was then I started question.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, maybe I can do this for a
Speaker 1: little bit longer, and then I have to look in
Speaker 1: the mirror and go, dlle, just have a real conversation
Speaker 1: with yourself. You don't want to do this anymore, you know,
Speaker 1: it's crap.
Speaker 2: Step into the ICU with yourself, start caring and have
Speaker 2: a conversation with yourself.
Speaker 1: A lot of people say that to me. They're like,
Speaker 1: you should really start to take care of yourself and
Speaker 1: think about yourself. And I'm like, okay, so I go
Speaker 1: and buy a new surfboard.
Speaker 2: How much did the day to day pain impact you
Speaker 2: in your day to day life, because I mean, chronic
Speaker 2: pain is hard to live with.
Speaker 1: When I had the shoulder surgery, I just said to
Speaker 1: the doctor, He's like, look, he comes and he gets
Speaker 1: you to sign a consent form. Sorry, and because you
Speaker 1: don't know whether it's going to be a success or not.
Speaker 1: And I said to him, okay, cool, do you think
Speaker 1: I'll be able to bowl again? And he said I
Speaker 1: don't know. I said, okay, do you think I can
Speaker 1: at least cost like fishing? And he's like, it's like,
Speaker 1: I think you can do that. And I said, all right, cool.
Speaker 1: If I have a kid, do you think I'll be
Speaker 1: able to throw the ball for the kid to like,
Speaker 1: you know, hit the ball and stuff like that. He said,
Speaker 1: I think you'll be able to do that. But being
Speaker 1: an elite athlete bowling one hundred and fifty one hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty five, because that's the dream. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you'll be able to do that. I said, oh,
Speaker 1: that's fine. At least I can do those other things.
Speaker 1: Let's do it. And we did that, and yeah, for
Speaker 1: six months it was hard, like not being able to
Speaker 1: pick up my arm and it sounds hard, terrible, but
Speaker 1: not being able to shower properly, like where you dry yourself,
Speaker 1: you know, or go to the bathroom. It's like, now
Speaker 1: it's my right arm, I'm right hand. It's everything that
Speaker 1: has to be in the left hand. Drive All that
Speaker 1: kind of crap really is not It's not a vibe,
Speaker 1: I can promise you. But then the chronic pain afterwards
Speaker 1: was not great, Like sleeping becomes difficult, just the shooting
Speaker 1: pain into the neck becomes really really painful and shitty
Speaker 1: and creates headaches. You get headaches, like it's not it's
Speaker 1: not a vibe. But then it's kind of it's gone away,
Speaker 1: like now I'm absolutely fine. And the reason why it's
Speaker 1: gone away because I don't bowl anymore.
Speaker 2: It is an unnatural thing to do bowling.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I did it, you know, bubble yoh. When
Speaker 1: I had to do my quarantine, I was so bored.
Speaker 1: Seven days in the room whatever, it is. I caught
Speaker 1: myself shadow bowling in the room. I think I told
Speaker 1: you this, and I had to again have another conversation
Speaker 1: with myself and said, well, what do you do? Don't
Speaker 1: you ever do that again? Those days are garden baddy.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't visualize you having a comment. Do you actually
Speaker 2: stare at yourself in the mirror.
Speaker 1: And just look at myself and just say, don't shake
Speaker 1: their head? No, no, no, the long hair.
Speaker 2: You have longer hair than me at the moment? Is
Speaker 2: there a sense of freedom that come you've spoken about
Speaker 2: the pressure and the injuries. Is there a sense of
Speaker 2: freedom or was it a sadness? Or how did you
Speaker 2: feel when you finally made the call to call it quits?
Speaker 1: Absolute freedom? Happy, so happy. Went on a fishing trip
Speaker 1: with my best mates and it's great because I didn't
Speaker 1: see him a lot, and we were on the water
Speaker 1: and we were talking, talking, talking, and at the start
Speaker 1: of the trip I'd said to him and told him
Speaker 1: my concerns and why I wanted to play and why
Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to do the gigs a little
Speaker 1: bit longer. Like I was like, if I do two
Speaker 1: or three more gigs, you know I can make this
Speaker 1: amount of money, I can look after my family. I
Speaker 1: can do this, my sisters wanting to do this. He
Speaker 1: wanted to start a business. I'm like, I can help you,
Speaker 1: and I really wanted to do it, and he's like, you,
Speaker 1: you do realize that you're doing this for everybody else
Speaker 1: and not for yourself. And I knew that when I
Speaker 1: played cricket, Like if I played to play, I got
Speaker 1: all the accolades that I wanted. I've got wickets, I
Speaker 1: had success, I earned money, you know, I won awards
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff because I was just
Speaker 1: playing the game. The moment I started to focus on
Speaker 1: something like the outcome, like I'm going to get paid
Speaker 1: or I'm going to get this record, or I'm going
Speaker 1: to do this, shit just became so much more difficult
Speaker 1: to achieve. And we had nice chats for we extended
Speaker 1: the trip by another two days. And when I left
Speaker 1: that trip, I sit him, I'm done. I think. I
Speaker 1: got home on the Monday and I told my agent,
Speaker 1: who's also one of my best friends, You're just like
Speaker 1: my best friend who manages me. I just said to him,
Speaker 1: I'm done and I'm going to announce it tomorrow. And
Speaker 1: he's like, just put the brakes on that for twenty
Speaker 1: four hours and I'm like why. He's like, I just
Speaker 1: need to let all your sponsors know that you're not
Speaker 1: doing this anymore. I said, okay, fine, and he came
Speaker 1: back to me the next day and every one of
Speaker 1: them were happy. They were like, we fully support you,
Speaker 1: U stall with you. You can go ahead. And the
Speaker 1: Wednesday I put a thing out there and said I'm finished.
Speaker 1: No was it happy?
Speaker 2: So you finished up now? So nine we were doing
Speaker 2: this podcast. I got in contact with one of your mates.
Speaker 1: Which he didn't tell me about.
Speaker 2: This interesting no and this here. It's all good, I promise,
Speaker 2: so more. Name Morchael, good team mate of yours. What
Speaker 2: a legend soon to be an Australian. Let's be honest.
Speaker 1: Married you're really Australian.
Speaker 2: He should be if he's not already married to Ross Kelly,
Speaker 2: a wonderful human being also a sports broadcaster. So here's
Speaker 2: his message.
Speaker 3: Hello. Know it's dell Stain the Arrow. Where do I start?
Speaker 3: I sometimes I just like these sort of questions, because
Speaker 3: you know, to do it justice just I don't think
Speaker 3: I can do it. He's he was an absolute legend
Speaker 3: on the field. But I think as a mate and
Speaker 3: as a as a human off the field, he ticks
Speaker 3: all the boxes. Very humble, You'll give all this time
Speaker 3: for no matter what the person is, for a cat,
Speaker 3: for a dog. He's just got this warm, loving person
Speaker 3: and he makes time for for everybody. I think on
Speaker 3: the field, drive what I love about him was that,
Speaker 3: you know, he had a hell of a lot of success,
Speaker 3: but that never changed him. Just him always putting his
Speaker 3: arm around sort of newcomers that will come into the side.
Speaker 3: I think the odder we get, you know, sometimes you'll
Speaker 3: you'll feel that you need to protect your your your spot,
Speaker 3: but that wasn't the case with Dale. He was always
Speaker 3: the first guy there to welcome a player, a new bowler.
Speaker 3: Always well, he was always there sort of talking to
Speaker 3: him about fast bowling and just making sure that the
Speaker 3: guy felt comfortable in the space and that he was settled.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I think we can all see no sort
Speaker 3: of just life after cricket as well. You know how
Speaker 3: he goes about life. He's a very humble guy. He's
Speaker 3: honestly a true friend. He's a guy that you can
Speaker 3: you can call and the night to come and pick
Speaker 3: you up from airports and to drive you back home
Speaker 3: off the night out. He's very responsible human being, very resilient.
Speaker 3: I mean that guy played for a long time with
Speaker 3: a broken shoulder, a lot of injections and a lot of tablets,
Speaker 3: and he fought through that. And then to fee him
Speaker 3: to see him come back after that big injury and
Speaker 3: still go and dominate and become, you know, the leading
Speaker 3: wicket taker for South Africa was great and it is
Speaker 3: really you know, a spot or slot that he deserves.
Speaker 1: And yeah, he.
Speaker 3: Became a household name from from Palabora. I think that
Speaker 3: also takes a lot, just the resilience and the character
Speaker 3: he showed growing up from sort of Pala Bora, where
Speaker 3: you know, a lot of things are not given to
Speaker 3: you, you need to earn it. And I think that sums
Speaker 3: him up also as a characterist, the fact that he's
Speaker 3: a hard working guy. He had fought very hard to
Speaker 3: all success and he did that. He could have easily
Speaker 3: fallen or fallen off the of the wagon, but yeah,
Speaker 3: he was very determined and very focused to become the
Speaker 3: base in the world and it did have happened to
Speaker 3: a better man.
Speaker 1: He's a nice guy.
Speaker 2: It's not a bad summary though, No he's lying.
Speaker 1: You know. I've known Morne for a long time. I
Speaker 1: want to tell you how so I played against Morner
Speaker 1: in school. Like he was. He was always as tall
Speaker 1: as he is now. He was just a lot skinnier,
Speaker 1: so he just looked like as cheap as he was scary,
Speaker 1: and the same thing as Ab. I met Ab when
Speaker 1: I was about ten. I think he was nine. But anyway,
Speaker 1: long story short, Mornee comes to the Titans, and the
Speaker 1: Titans is the franchise in South Africa. It's who we
Speaker 1: played for in Pretorium and I lost my contract to
Speaker 1: the Titans and they signed They signed Fuff, one guy
Speaker 1: from the Titans, and they signed Morne, who was from Easterns.
Speaker 1: It's when Easterns and Titans joined to become one. We took.
Speaker 1: Instead of having ten provinces or something, we broke down
Speaker 1: to six. So joined and I was out of a
Speaker 1: contract and I had a coaching job at the Titans.
Speaker 1: I had to go and coach to make money at
Speaker 1: this point, but Mornee was a rookie. He was being paid.
Speaker 1: Then I walked into the dressing room because I used
Speaker 1: to steal the milk the coffee monk to have my
Speaker 1: wheat picks in the morning and I had no cash,
Speaker 1: so this is what I did. And I walked in
Speaker 1: and this is one of the first times I had
Speaker 1: a conversation with more name, greeted him, how'sard? And we
Speaker 1: sat there and we had a bowl of wheat picks together,
Speaker 1: and he was eighteen and I was nineteen, and I've
Speaker 1: known him my whole life since. We've been like best
Speaker 1: mates since over a bowl of wheat picks.
Speaker 2: I love that. I love that. Is that nice to
Speaker 2: know that your tall mates, that's how they think of you,
Speaker 2: and they think of the person before they think of
Speaker 2: any wickets or whatever you do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so that's the most important thing. I
Speaker 1: think you won success on the field. Obviously you want
Speaker 1: to do well and stuff like that, but like I
Speaker 1: think we just judged on who we are as people
Speaker 1: at the end of the day. I mean, Morna is
Speaker 1: one of the nicest guys in the world, you know,
Speaker 1: on and off the field. If you don't ask anybody
Speaker 1: in the world. And I'm not saying this like as
Speaker 1: a reply to what he's saying. He genuinely is. Even
Speaker 1: now when I like sit and I'm like courts to
Speaker 1: who do you want to have win New Zealand or Australia.
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't care, you know, Like I've got
Speaker 1: so many, so many nice guys in both teams. I
Speaker 1: just hope the best team wins on the day, you know.
Speaker 1: That's all I can say. And maybe I became soft
Speaker 1: over my last couple of years as a player, and
Speaker 1: also a good reason why I had to step away
Speaker 1: from the game, because I lost that edge that I
Speaker 1: once had, that kill it instinct and everything. You know,
Speaker 1: I've become a circus line. You know, I'm not that nature,
Speaker 1: the wild one in the that would just take you
Speaker 1: and rip you apart, you know, So I think that's
Speaker 1: more important.
Speaker 2: Now at the backstages, You've just given me goosebumps without analogy.
Speaker 2: That's so fascinating. Have you thought that for a while
Speaker 2: or have you just come to.
Speaker 1: That realization said that right now?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I've got to say that the circus line
Speaker 2: has been bloody lovely to get to know Dale. I
Speaker 2: honestly I had no idea what you would be like
Speaker 2: to work with because, like I say, I saw you
Speaker 2: for years, covered it for years you playing cricket, but
Speaker 2: I didn't know you as a person, and you are
Speaker 2: very easy to get to know as a person because
Speaker 2: you open yourself up so generously to people. And I
Speaker 2: just want to say you've been a joy to work
Speaker 2: with and to become friends with. I hope absolutely, And yeah,
Speaker 2: I thank you for being so open. But most of all,
Speaker 2: I just thank you for being the bloke that you are,
Speaker 2: because I think it's pretty great.
Speaker 1: No, thank you, No, it's been great. So I've had
Speaker 1: a lot of time from your pitch reports of the
Speaker 1: most of the going to do. Other than that, it's
Speaker 1: been a absolute blast.
Speaker 2: See if you made it look easy first time, then
Speaker 2: it would make people like me have been trying to
Speaker 2: do it for two decades really bad.
Speaker 1: I am totally impressed with Like, yeah, I'd love to
Speaker 1: tell the story about you quickly if I cared, Like
Speaker 1: this is crazy, So I rock up and narrowly trying
Speaker 1: to get her yeah piece and the whole you know
Speaker 1: contraption that you strap onto your back, your plug into
Speaker 1: her dress. It's the size of I don't know, like
Speaker 1: a cell phone. It's quite big. Just for the viewers
Speaker 1: to understand the size, and with ten seconds to go,
Speaker 1: she had about two minutes to get this on and
Speaker 1: she's struggling, struggling, struggling. With about ten seconds to go,
Speaker 1: she had three people around her, and you put your
Speaker 1: stuff down on the floor and I saw the director
Speaker 1: go five. He puts out his hand five four, three
Speaker 1: to one, and without panic, you picked up your clipboard,
Speaker 1: looked straight into the camera and said, good afternoon everybody,
Speaker 1: and welcome to Abadabi. And just like that, the amazing
Speaker 1: No one in the world would have known that. There
Speaker 1: was absolute panic with one second to go before we
Speaker 1: went live on the TV, and I was like, that's
Speaker 1: why you do this job, That's why you do this job.
Speaker 2: With Darren Sammy staring.
Speaker 1: Me down, I could see he was like panicking panic
Speaker 1: that she nailed it. Thank you, well done.
Speaker 2: That live TV and fun performing.
Speaker 1: Dale.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for your timing being really generous. I
Speaker 2: really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Very welcome tax on time.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this episode of Ordinarily Speaking, and
Speaker 2: once again thanks to Dale for allowing us to spend
Speaker 2: some time with him. If you want to get in
Speaker 2: touch with the podcast at Ordinarily Underscore Speaking, on Instagram
Speaker 2: or on Twitter at Narrowly Underscore Meadows. A new episode
Speaker 2: will drop next week.
Speaker 1: Show me that you want a bigo