Speaker 1: It's time to rage against the menopause with Petrina Jones.
Speaker 1: My next guest is someone I've long admired and grew
Speaker 1: up reading in Dolly magazine, and Cleo ignited my passion
Speaker 1: for journalism. In fact, Kaz Cook is an ossie author,
Speaker 1: cartoonist and broadcaster. Chances are, if you're a parent like
Speaker 1: me in a gazillion others, you had a copy of
Speaker 1: Up the Duff on your bedside table. The Practical Guide
Speaker 1: to Pregnancy and Childbirth was a staple for any baby
Speaker 1: shower hamper. While she has learnt her talents to menopause,
Speaker 1: pinning It's the Menopause, a reassuring, practical go to from
Speaker 1: a trusted source after talking to literally thousands of women.
Speaker 1: I love that for women by women. It's full of
Speaker 1: her laugh out loud signature style and felt like a
Speaker 1: gift from the gods when it landed on my desk
Speaker 1: one morning after the show Welcome and thank You. I've
Speaker 1: got to say this book, it's almost like a gift
Speaker 1: from the heavens. I'm not kidding because I came off
Speaker 1: the show, off the Christian o'connells show one morning a
Speaker 1: few weeks back, and you your book. Your publicist had
Speaker 1: sent me this amazing new book, it's The Menopause, and
Speaker 1: it was sitting on my desk and it was almost
Speaker 1: like a gift from the gods, like they were listening.
Speaker 2: Oh that's gorgeous, thank you so much. Well, I wish
Speaker 2: i'd had it when I was going through menopause. I'm
Speaker 2: just through. And yeah, it's just with that my background
Speaker 2: as a journalist, I thought, you know, this is going
Speaker 2: to be a big job. But I didn't realize it
Speaker 2: was going to take me three and a half years
Speaker 2: of my life. A million, not a million, but you know,
Speaker 2: nine milling, nine thousand women filling in the survey and
Speaker 2: selling me all their secrets and wishes and worries, and
Speaker 2: then all the medical electors. So it's been huge and
Speaker 2: it's for me too. It's lovely to see it all
Speaker 2: in one package now and ready to go.
Speaker 1: Oh no, congratulations, it's you know, your books are like bibles.
Speaker 1: I hope you realize that up the Duff was so
Speaker 1: pivotal to my pregnancy experience twelve thirteen years ago.
Speaker 2: And it's just so yes, I mean, it is amazing.
Speaker 2: It's a multi generational thing with my books now, because
Speaker 2: I keep updating them, and it's so nice to have
Speaker 2: mothers and daughters both reading different different books at different
Speaker 2: stages of their lives.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, when I grew up, when I was
Speaker 1: a teenager in the eighties, I think it was doctor
Speaker 1: Llewellyn Jones.
Speaker 2: Every woman, imagine having your body explained to you by,
Speaker 2: you know, a man, and that's how it was for
Speaker 2: so many people. I mean, doctors didn't even know what
Speaker 2: hormones were until the nineteen thirty so they've got a
Speaker 2: lot of catching up to those.
Speaker 1: Tell me about your book, Tell me about the chapters.
Speaker 2: What I decided to do with the book is to
Speaker 2: get you know, those comments and quotes from nine thousand women.
Speaker 2: So part of the book is like a conversation between
Speaker 2: women on all of those things, plus the experts. But
Speaker 2: I've divided into chapters, so you know, we start the
Speaker 2: first chapters called what even is the menopause? And then
Speaker 2: it's a chapter called It's Your Hormones because I think
Speaker 2: we're all really confused about progesterone, estrogen, testosterone, How much
Speaker 2: do we need? What's happening? Are our levels of hormones
Speaker 2: falling off a cliff in our forties, or as I
Speaker 2: explain it, it's kind of more like the ABC logos.
Speaker 2: So it's take up and down, around and going backwards.
Speaker 2: And then I talk about because I think a lot
Speaker 2: of people, we're all old enough and grown up enough
Speaker 2: to bring our own philosophy to what's happening to our health,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't always work when we hit menopause. You know, medication,
Speaker 2: we may not want to take it, or maybe we can't.
Speaker 2: Maybe the self help stuff isn't working for us. So
Speaker 2: I talk about how solutions to menopausal symptoms can be
Speaker 2: like a buffet. So you choose, and here's all the
Speaker 2: evidence based information that you need. Page thirty six of
Speaker 2: the book is more than the thirty symptoms that women
Speaker 2: haven't even known were connected with their hormones. And I
Speaker 2: didn't when I started going through it. So it's insane
Speaker 2: mental changes, the brain fog, the lack of concentration, the
Speaker 2: confidence falling off a cliff, and you know, then there's
Speaker 2: all the body stuff. So it's not just hot flushes,
Speaker 2: it's crazy heavy periods, it's headaches for many people, it's
Speaker 2: itchy's skin. Who knew itchy skin with the menopause.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about itchy skin. I've got the weirdest thing.
Speaker 1: I've got dermatitis in my ears, which is driving men.
Speaker 2: Same, oh, that would drive you, and that is something
Speaker 2: that you know, dry skin everywhere, everything that so many
Speaker 2: women didn't know was connected. And then it's just your
Speaker 2: sex life as well. And sex life yeah, well it's
Speaker 2: often joked about, oh, women just lose interest. But what
Speaker 2: women told me in the survey was, for many women,
Speaker 2: it's so incredibly painful. Many women mentioned it and said
Speaker 2: it's like razor blades. And there a pollutions for all
Speaker 2: of these things, but women are often shamed to talk
Speaker 2: about the fact that they're weeing unexpectedly or when they sneeze,
Speaker 2: and they didn't know that that was connected to perimenopause
Speaker 2: and what they can do about it. So and I
Speaker 2: think a lot of people also, I don't know about you.
Speaker 2: It's not like I was for a supermodel who had
Speaker 2: to rely on my looks for my career or anything.
Speaker 2: But even I was sort of going, oh, my face
Speaker 2: is sliding off the front of my head, and why
Speaker 2: is my hair suddenly all whoopy? And I used to
Speaker 2: think that as you got older, women just stopped bothering
Speaker 2: you know, doing anything with their hair, and then I realized, no,
Speaker 2: actually your hair changes.
Speaker 1: It does. Oh the hair's manky. What's with the hair.
Speaker 1: It's just no amount of good Oh, no amount of
Speaker 1: good shampoo, blow drying setting, nothing works. It just doesn't
Speaker 1: want to do what it's meant or you need it
Speaker 1: to do.
Speaker 2: No, because it's it's changed. Things you can do. But
Speaker 2: one of the really important parts of the book for
Speaker 2: me was to let us all know that there are
Speaker 2: so many ripoffs out there. There are so many claims.
Speaker 2: I mean, people are selling menopause shampoo, menopause conditioner, menopause moisturizer.
Speaker 2: It's all nonsense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's cract.
Speaker 2: People are using us as a marketing opportunity, and we
Speaker 2: need to understand that they're absolutely coming for us. And
Speaker 2: you can't just Google because you get this kind of
Speaker 2: fire hose of people selling your stuff and it's not
Speaker 2: necessarily the information that you need. So I've got a
Speaker 2: whole section on how to talk to your GP, what
Speaker 2: to ask your GP, which websites are trustworthy, because it
Speaker 2: can just be so confusing for people when they hit menopause,
Speaker 2: even if they know that's what is the cause of
Speaker 2: their problems.
Speaker 1: Yeah, why do you think this is why? This is
Speaker 1: the whole reason I'm doing the podcast is because I
Speaker 1: want to formulate a really of support for other women
Speaker 1: who are going through it. But also my other main
Speaker 1: thing is I really want to open the conversation why
Speaker 1: why aren't we talking about it? Why aren't we when
Speaker 1: we go and have coffee with our girlfriends. If we're not,
Speaker 1: what is the mojo that's hanging over it? I think
Speaker 1: we should talk about it like we do conception and
Speaker 1: pregnancy and childbirth. Why do you think that is?
Speaker 2: I think there's a number of reasons, and one of
Speaker 2: them is a really huge one I reckon is shame.
Speaker 2: Women have been taught that their periods or anything to
Speaker 2: do with women's health is lucky or shameful or embarrassing,
Speaker 2: and we shouldn't talk about it, even with our doctors,
Speaker 2: even with our girlfriends. I do think it's changing, but
Speaker 2: I think that's one of the reasons for this book too,
Speaker 2: as well as the same reason as your podcast, to
Speaker 2: share feelings, to share experiences, but also to understand that
Speaker 2: everyone's experience is different, so when you share them, when
Speaker 2: you see your stories, the more we can do that,
Speaker 2: the more. We understand that some people breathe through with
Speaker 2: hardly any problems. Other people have a really difficult time.
Speaker 2: And I was really shocked to discover, when I tell
Speaker 2: you up what people had told me in the survey,
Speaker 2: that so many people withdraw from their friends during perimenopause.
Speaker 2: It's part of losing their confidence, it's part of feeling
Speaker 2: that you know, they're not good at things anymore. They
Speaker 2: tend to go into their shell often during perimenopause, and
Speaker 2: that's a problem at home with your friends and at work,
Speaker 2: and then again that creates even more shame. One of
Speaker 2: the interesting things about hot flushes is women are so
Speaker 2: embarrassed to get a hot flush at work or if
Speaker 2: they've got a job where they're in front of people
Speaker 2: and perhaps is a teacher or a nurse and having
Speaker 2: to be, you know, the voice of authority. And if
Speaker 2: you don't know, then a hot flush can look to
Speaker 2: other people and feel to yourself like it's anxiety or
Speaker 2: a panic attack, or you're embarrassed, or you're fibbing, because
Speaker 2: those are the things we associate with going red and sweating. Right,
Speaker 2: So we've got to change the knowledge base, get rid
Speaker 2: of the shame and I think the other thing is
Speaker 2: it is tied up with the way society treats older women.
Speaker 2: We think about all the words that are used, you know,
Speaker 2: old chook and crone and bunch of grandmas and you
Speaker 2: know where talking about women in their forties who are
Speaker 2: getting these symptoms, you know, and sort of being embarrassed.
Speaker 2: I think to be associated with aging, embarrassed to go gray,
Speaker 2: and that's a choice. But I've decided not to go
Speaker 2: gray yet, and that's just an individual choice. But I
Speaker 2: think there's so much stigma with women's health, with periods
Speaker 2: and with getting old, and all of that is going
Speaker 2: to have to change as we support each other.
Speaker 1: That yeah, And I'd like to think by the time
Speaker 1: my daughter is going through this in decades time, that
Speaker 1: the narrative had has changed. I think it is seen
Speaker 1: as a sign of weakness just aging in general. And
Speaker 1: really when your flowers sort of dying out and crumbling
Speaker 1: away in a lot of ways, I think you're really
Speaker 1: growing into yourself, especially when you turn around fifty, I reckon,
Speaker 1: don't you think?
Speaker 2: Well? The last chapter of my book is all of
Speaker 2: the positive, optimistic, wonderful things that women are sharing with
Speaker 2: each other, and there is a sense of freedom that
Speaker 2: comes with letting go of the idea of what you
Speaker 2: should look like or what you should do. I think
Speaker 2: a lot of women are really looking at taking what
Speaker 2: can help them in medication, what can help them with
Speaker 2: wellness or self help that there's evidence for. They're getting
Speaker 2: canny about, Okay, what are my priorities in life. They're
Speaker 2: saying to their teenage kids or older kids living at
Speaker 2: home with them, it's time that you did your own laundry,
Speaker 2: your own washing, saying that partners too. People are changing,
Speaker 2: They're not putting up with the way they've been treated
Speaker 2: in the past. And I think you know that there
Speaker 2: are lovely families and lovely partners who are trying to
Speaker 2: help women through perimenopause and menopause and feeling really confused.
Speaker 2: And that's why you know books and podcasts that are
Speaker 2: independent and not trying to sell you something, that are
Speaker 2: really just trying to sell you the idea of you know,
Speaker 2: you decide who you are and what you want out
Speaker 2: of life in your in the last half of your life.
Speaker 2: I'm in that's a long way to go, right, Yes,
Speaker 2: The idea of writing ourselves off and our forties and fifties.
Speaker 2: Is you know is I think we're all questioning that now.
Speaker 1: I love that, Kas. What helped you? You say that
Speaker 1: you're sort of out the other end of it? Now?
Speaker 1: How long do you think you went through that perimenopausal
Speaker 1: stage and what sort of lengths did you go to?
Speaker 1: What helped you in your experience?
Speaker 2: Well, I did not realize that what was happening to
Speaker 2: me was perimenopause. I was losing sleep, and that is
Speaker 2: a really huge symptom of perimenopause. It makes everything harder.
Speaker 2: I had the confidence crash, and all of that happened
Speaker 2: years before I had my first hot flush. And when
Speaker 2: I went to the doctor, I reckon. I was in
Speaker 2: there for about twelve minutes and came out with antidepressants.
Speaker 2: And I know now that that was not right for
Speaker 2: me at that time. I think antidepressants can be great
Speaker 2: for many people and at different times, but for me,
Speaker 2: I think the doctor completely missed that I was entering
Speaker 2: into perimenopause. I think I had three or four years
Speaker 2: of really difficult mental problems and sleep problems, and then
Speaker 2: I reckon, I had about two years of hot flushes.
Speaker 2: But then I went on medication and that just completely
Speaker 2: controlled it. So some people that you know, they breathed
Speaker 2: through that, you know, they don't even really notice. To
Speaker 2: other people, they get noticeable symptoms like crazy periods, hot slashes,
Speaker 2: you know, sneaky weing, and that might depending on whether
Speaker 2: they tackle that with medication, and you know what their
Speaker 2: own philosophy is. I mean, one woman in the survey
Speaker 2: pat said to me that she was in her eighties
Speaker 2: and still getting hot slashes. Yeah, people have one more
Speaker 2: than a decade, more than twelve years, more than fifteen years,
Speaker 2: and have not been well served, you know, by their
Speaker 2: medical professionals. Some doctors are great, and there's that's why
Speaker 2: they're stopped in the book about you know, what to
Speaker 2: ask your doctor, how to find a good doctor. For me,
Speaker 2: that's what made the difference is doing all this research
Speaker 2: and finding out what I was going through and why.
Speaker 2: I mean, I was so relieved when I found out
Speaker 2: that my crazy itchiness, you know, had a physical hormonal
Speaker 2: reason because I just really did a lot of women
Speaker 2: talk about thinking that they've hit early dementia. A lot
Speaker 2: of women are quitting their job. I mean, for me,
Speaker 2: I did have a period when I didn't know what
Speaker 2: was happening where I thought, oh, I can't be a
Speaker 2: writer anymore. I can't remember words. I'm confused about, you know,
Speaker 2: keeping track of my research. And thankfully I then understood
Speaker 2: that it was temporary and there was medication I could
Speaker 2: take for it. They think so many women suffer in silence.
Speaker 1: Were you on HRT.
Speaker 2: I'm still on MHT, which is the new name for HRT.
Speaker 2: Used to be called hormone or replacement therapy, and now
Speaker 2: doctors want us to call it menopause or hormone therapy, right,
Speaker 2: And I'm still on it, and I'm on it partly
Speaker 2: to protect my bones and to lower my risk of
Speaker 2: heart design says, I'm in menopause, that is, you know,
Speaker 2: for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1: So is that like a patch cat.
Speaker 2: I used gel for the estrogen. I use an oral
Speaker 2: tablet for progesterone, because you've got to take progesterone if
Speaker 2: you still have a uterus and you're taking estrogen. Some
Speaker 2: of this is quite complex, but in a way, it's
Speaker 2: just simple, if you know. And that's what I've written
Speaker 2: it down all in one place.
Speaker 1: I'm not taking anything and I'm not saying that to
Speaker 1: say Anihroo, that's not at all, But I'm not even
Speaker 1: taking vitamins or minerals, which is not a good thing.
Speaker 1: I should be taking something, but it's because I don't
Speaker 1: know what's out there.
Speaker 2: A lot of vitamins are completely unnecessary if you have
Speaker 2: a reasonable diet. You only need to take supplements if
Speaker 2: you've got a deficiency. So that that involves going to
Speaker 2: a good GP, getting tested, seeing what your vitamin D
Speaker 2: levels are, and having a bone test if you've started perimenopause,
Speaker 2: having a bone density test. This is all in the book.
Speaker 2: These are all the things you can do to protect yourself.
Speaker 2: If you don't have symptoms that are driving you nuts
Speaker 2: that MHT would help, then no point in taking MHT.
Speaker 2: It's not an automatic thing, it's not the devil, and
Speaker 2: it's not a cure all. So you've got to look
Speaker 2: at the symptom that you have, if any, and deal
Speaker 2: with what can help you with those. It's kind of
Speaker 2: common sense. It's a bit like I say, here's the
Speaker 2: buffet of things that you can choose from bus I
Speaker 2: do sweep a whole bunch of crockery off one end
Speaker 2: of the buffet. Lebel and say, exhare this stuff because
Speaker 2: there's no evidence for it, and This is just people
Speaker 2: trying it.
Speaker 1: It's like a platter, You've laid it out and it's
Speaker 1: I guess it's for each woman to try what works
Speaker 1: for them, because what works for you may not necessarily
Speaker 1: work for someone else.
Speaker 2: Well, we know that MHT, which used to be called HRT,
Speaker 2: is a great frontline treatment for several of the symptoms,
Speaker 2: and it's really reliable and it will help. We know
Speaker 2: that exercise is really great. We know that trying to
Speaker 2: do something to do with stress really helps hot flushes
Speaker 2: and other things. So there is this mix of self
Speaker 2: help and medication if you can take it. There are
Speaker 2: also alternative medications to take. If you have a history
Speaker 2: of breast cancer or endemetrial cancer and you've been advised
Speaker 2: not to take MHT, you can still probably take and
Speaker 2: in vagina cream which will help with the driver gina
Speaker 2: symptoms and will also help with those wiing symptoms. So
Speaker 2: it's just a matter of all this information that women
Speaker 2: haven't been given in the past, and we need that
Speaker 2: base lift. I mean, it's such a cliche, right patch,
Speaker 2: but knowledge is power. If you can go to the
Speaker 2: GP knowing which symptoms you might have and you get
Speaker 2: a bad GP who says Oh, you just have to
Speaker 2: put up with it, or oh you're too young. You're
Speaker 2: too young in your forties to be having these symptoms.
Speaker 2: That's a GP that you either need to get educated
Speaker 2: fast or you need to go to another.
Speaker 1: Dome, find another GP.
Speaker 2: And a good GP is absolute gold in helping me
Speaker 2: through this. And women said in the survey they really
Speaker 2: love the gps who listen to them and help them.
Speaker 2: A lot of us go through it feeling alone. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and we were actually fifty percent of the population who
Speaker 2: will experience this.
Speaker 1: That's what I mean. I'm so flabbagasted that there's not
Speaker 1: not enough talk because it affects so many women across
Speaker 1: the world.
Speaker 2: I know, and there's still such a stigma, like two
Speaker 2: point five million Australians yes, are either in menopause or
Speaker 2: approaching the perimenopause, which just means all the symptoms around
Speaker 2: and leading up to menopause. And I'm hearing men saying, oh,
Speaker 2: no one's really interested in some men saying no one's
Speaker 2: really interested in this, or this is a bit embarrassing,
Speaker 2: or someone actually said to me live in an TV interview, Oh,
Speaker 2: but you wouldn't give it to someone as a present.
Speaker 2: Why not? It's not why not to say, like every
Speaker 2: other woman in the world will go through menopause and
Speaker 2: here's a fun book with cartoons and evans faced information.
Speaker 2: I was so indignant. I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: this is what we're fighting against, you know this idea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we need to change the narrative and normalize it
Speaker 1: because it's a perfectly normal stage of life. Yea, was
Speaker 1: it three years? It took you to write the book.
Speaker 2: About three and a half years to solidly research and
Speaker 2: write it. And I'm so in awe of all the
Speaker 2: fabulous experts, many of them women, that Australia has now
Speaker 2: doing research in psychiatric areas of what menopause does to
Speaker 2: mental health, all the studies that many professors who are
Speaker 2: experts in the area are trying to do now about
Speaker 2: different hormones and the effect that they have. But we
Speaker 2: are so behind the eight ball with research.
Speaker 1: And like we say, women are so in such a
Speaker 1: desperate period of their lives as well, Like some days
Speaker 1: you feel really rancid and you're just desperate for some
Speaker 1: sort of relief from the hot flushes, from the exhaustion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the difficulty too, because when hormones are erratic,
Speaker 2: which is exactly what happens in perimenopause. You can feel
Speaker 2: a certain thing one day and then it suddenly goes
Speaker 2: by half past three. You don't get it next Tuesday,
Speaker 2: but then it's back next Thursday, and then nothing happens
Speaker 2: for two months, and it's so bizarre, so confusing. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's actually really characteristic.
Speaker 1: You do actually feel like I don't know how you felt,
Speaker 1: but I actually feel it. Sometimes I think I actually
Speaker 1: am going a bit batty, like I'm going crazy.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, so many women said they thought they were having
Speaker 2: early dementia, and you know, in the survey, so many
Speaker 2: things came up in the survey and the quotes that
Speaker 2: are in the book that I didn't expect, and you know, oh,
Speaker 2: I've just lost my train of Thought's brain frog again?
Speaker 2: What was I going to say?
Speaker 1: No, it's gone no good, No, haven't got it?
Speaker 2: Oh sorry, pat, No, I don't apologize.
Speaker 1: It's it is complete. I get it all the time.
Speaker 1: I had doctor Sarah, and here I go, I can't
Speaker 1: think of a surname now from Jean Hale's foundation.
Speaker 2: It's hilarious.
Speaker 1: I was saying to her, how on air, you know,
Speaker 1: it's this whole imposter syndrome that you go through waves of.
Speaker 1: But I'll be talking to Christian and Jack and I'll
Speaker 1: be on a train of thought and then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, it's like someone just rips the rug out
Speaker 1: from under me. And I feel like such a twat
Speaker 1: on air because I've got no idea, like I think,
Speaker 1: oh my god, Like if you're in an office environment,
Speaker 1: you can probably get away with it, but when you're
Speaker 1: on air, you must look like a.
Speaker 2: It happens to me in interviews sometimes too. And that
Speaker 2: I was going to say that women do feel like
Speaker 2: they're going mad one of the things that women said,
Speaker 2: and I didn't expect this. Women use the phrase not myself,
Speaker 2: I don't feel myself. I don't know who I am.
Speaker 2: I've lost myself. And I think that is talking about
Speaker 2: those mental changes and understanding that there's a hormonal reason
Speaker 2: for them, even if you don't get treatment, can be
Speaker 2: so comforting understanding that other women are going through it.
Speaker 2: Because that's the bit that I had no idea was
Speaker 2: a perimenopausal sympathy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we need to be honest, and I
Speaker 1: think we need to get real, and I think we
Speaker 1: need to remove the shame that seems to be around
Speaker 1: perimenopause and menopause, and it's not a negative thing. And
Speaker 1: you're right, we need to support one another, both men
Speaker 1: and women. You know, support your partner.
Speaker 2: We don't have to pretend that we're all perant everything.
Speaker 1: Human at the end of the day, and we're all
Speaker 1: going through it and we need to build this village
Speaker 1: and support one another.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally agree. I just think it's time that women
Speaker 2: got the information in their hands.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we just.
Speaker 2: Stop pretending that we're superwomen who can go through all
Speaker 2: these stages of our lives and pretend that it's not
Speaker 2: affecting us. I don't think it does women any And
Speaker 2: I saw a commentator the other day. I was really
Speaker 2: shocked that it was a woman saying, Oh, we should
Speaker 2: stop all this talk about menopause women. It's going to
Speaker 2: make women get sacked and it's going to prove that
Speaker 2: women are no good in the work in the workplace,
Speaker 2: and I thought you completely got the wrong end of
Speaker 2: the stick. You know, every workplace needs to be flexible
Speaker 2: enough to help people, whether they're going through a menopause
Speaker 2: or they're a bloke who's got medical issues. Or someone
Speaker 2: needs to pick up their kids from work. Every workplace
Speaker 2: needs to be kinder to its employees. We all need
Speaker 2: to support each other. I'm sounding like I'm mad hippie now,
Speaker 2: but this idea that's not at all that we're cruel
Speaker 2: to people if they need a little help. I just
Speaker 2: don't think that's the way the world should go anymore.
Speaker 1: I think just because you're a woman, and just because
Speaker 1: you get periods and can birth a baby and will
Speaker 1: eventually go through pery and menopause, just because you get
Speaker 1: it because you're a woman, I don't feel that that
Speaker 1: should be discounted. It should be recognized just like every
Speaker 1: other medical condition in the workplace. It should be no different.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I also think it makes women have a
Speaker 2: better understanding of other people, a breadth of experience. Women
Speaker 2: are brave, Women have a higher pain threshold. They are
Speaker 2: going through all these things and yet they're holding down
Speaker 2: jobs and making sure that they're doing all the emotional
Speaker 2: labor at home, and they should be commended for it.
Speaker 2: You know, there's this I mean, I'm just not interested
Speaker 2: in pretending that perfect is normal. Perfect is impossible. You know,
Speaker 2: women have got to stop thinking they need to be
Speaker 2: perfect at what they look like, what they do, how
Speaker 2: they conduct themselves in life. We've been amazing for decades
Speaker 2: in our family, in our work, and it's time that
Speaker 2: we gave ourselves a little pad on the back and
Speaker 2: understood that we help each other through. Menopause is something
Speaker 2: that you experience and you go through and you get
Speaker 2: to the other side, and like the last chapter of
Speaker 2: my book says, you know, this is the rest of
Speaker 2: your life with more freedom, more confidence and this. Everybody
Speaker 2: talked in the survey about how important their women friends
Speaker 2: were and I just thought that was a lovely thing
Speaker 2: to celebrate as well.
Speaker 1: Tell me, I have one question in closing, Will I
Speaker 1: feel normal again?
Speaker 2: Yes, you will get yourself based, you'll be yourself again,
Speaker 2: and in fact it will be better. You will have
Speaker 2: more confidence, you will understand your body better if you
Speaker 2: make yourself aware of all this stuff. And honestly, there
Speaker 2: was just so much optimism that women shared and they
Speaker 2: all talked about freedom, a mental and physical freedom. Getting
Speaker 2: to the other side.
Speaker 1: Oh, I love it. Sounds like nirvana to me.
Speaker 2: As something to look forward to.
Speaker 1: Award winning author kas Cook talking about her Latey's book,
Speaker 1: It's the Menopause through Penguin Books. I highly recommend it.
Speaker 1: Our Menopause Journey Next takes us to what will feel
Speaker 1: like you evesdropping on two best friends at your local cafe,
Speaker 1: because that's exactly what it is. I catch up with
Speaker 1: one of my dearest friends, journalist, radio and TV presenter
Speaker 1: and podcaster Sarah Patterson, or Beryl as I affectionately call her.
Speaker 1: We've known each other since we were teenagers, and well,
Speaker 1: I promised to frank chat. And that's exactly what it is.
Speaker 1: As kindred spirits navigate this crazy thing we call menopause,
Speaker 1: I'm Petrina Jones,