1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: And Amanda jam Nation. 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 2: A second generation Chinese Australian, has sparked a heated debate 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 2: after claiming the name of a popular Sydney beach has 4 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 2: racist and derogatory connotations. The beach, of course, I speak of, 5 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 2: is in Mossman and it's Chinaman's Beach. 6 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 3: I've often wondered about the heritage of China. 7 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 4: What is it called that? 8 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 2: It was used to be called Roscheville Beach up until 9 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy seven, and then it was changed to Chinaman's 10 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 2: Beach in a nod to Chinese fishermen who passed on 11 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 2: their expertise on smoking and preserving fish. 12 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 3: I thought it had been like that since the eighteen hundreds, 13 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 3: but I've done a lot of looking into it. 14 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 2: And nineteen seventy seven, when was officially changed to Chinaman's Beach. 15 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 4: It was called that in a derogatory way. 16 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 2: No, no, because I guess you know that's what Australians do, 17 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 2: is Chinese chentleman on the beach. 18 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 3: But we have Frenchman's Beach and Dutchman's Beach. 19 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 4: And is he saying that the term Frenchman is derogatory? 20 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 4: A Chinaman? 21 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: I mean? 22 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 3: So this second Generation. 23 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 2: Chap says the name of the two hundred and fifty 24 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 2: meter long beach is derogatory, hurtful, pointing out the name 25 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 2: Chinaman would never be used today. 26 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 3: Well, I guess you wouldn't say that, that, would you. You 27 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 3: wouldn't say Chinaman. 28 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 4: The hard thing. I think. 29 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 5: I think he'd find it very hard to find people 30 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 5: who would agree with him. But it's one thing for 31 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 5: us to say Chinaman's not derogatory if you're on the 32 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 5: receiving end of it. But I don't think I wouldn't 33 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 5: claim that that was derogatory. That's not my place to say. 34 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 5: But I'm proposing I wouldn't rename the beach. 35 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 2: He's proposing change it to show how Dick the original 36 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 2: market garden leaseholder who had created the market gardens around there. 37 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,119 Speaker 3: And you know, I think of it. You're in China 38 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 3: and there was a beach in China and they called 39 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:42,559 Speaker 3: it bussy beach. 40 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 4: That's not a derogatory How would you feel about that? 41 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 4: I wouldn't care. 42 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 5: I don't think chinaman's a derogatory term, but it's not 43 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 5: my place to say. But I don't think it's We're 44 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 5: in a lucky position where it's hard to find derogatory 45 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 5: terms against white Australians. 46 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 2: And that's why when we have stuff like this, you 47 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 2: got to put it to the whip place. 48 00:01:57,800 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 4: Do it? Would you be fun if you went to 49 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 4: Ogan Beach? Is a picture of you? 50 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 3: Where's this coming? Where is this coming? 51 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 5: Do people agree with this renaming Chinaman's Beach? I would 52 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 5: be interested to see if anyone would think that's a 53 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 5: good idea. 54 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,399 Speaker 3: To the whip Poul. Surely he's in Dean Park. 55 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 4: No, Shirley, what do you reckon? 56 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 6: Well? 57 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 7: No, I don't think it is. My husband's nickname was Chinaman. 58 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 3: Is he Chinese? 59 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 7: He was, his father was Chinese, his mother was Australian, 60 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 7: and everyone knew him was a Chinaman. 61 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 4: And did he find that offensive? 62 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 7: No? He just went along with it, like you. 63 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 5: Know, actually I don't know if that's along with it. 64 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 3: Did he look Chinese. 65 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 8: A little bit? 66 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 5: But that was yeah, But that's the thing that did 67 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 5: he find offensive? No, he just went along with that. 68 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 5: The whole generation of just having to go along. 69 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 2: I work with a Chinese spray painder when I was 70 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 2: working in the spray painting game and we used to 71 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,839 Speaker 2: go him being as in bing late went along as 72 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 2: he did Denil's and Lamia Denil. 73 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 4: Should we be changing the name of the beach? 74 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 8: Well, guys, if we leave it as Chinaman's Beach, nothing changes. However, 75 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 8: if we rename it, and I think Jonesy you said 76 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 8: chow Hong dick y minute you put the word dick 77 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 8: in a name for others. 78 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 3: You're just wishful for. 79 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 4: It's a tick with the t. 80 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 3: But I could see people tampering with the sign. That's 81 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 3: a good point. 82 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 5: David's in Cremorne. Would you change the name of the beach, David. 83 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 6: No, I wouldn't. Good morning, No, I wouldn't. Wouldn't change it. 84 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 6: I think it's fine and what it is. But to 85 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 6: add to it, going back, when I was young, we 86 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 6: used to go there Heaps with with Dad Mum and 87 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 6: there used to be these shells that were long and thin, 88 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 6: and they were brown and sort of yellow, and I 89 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 6: believe that's where they got the name from. I thought 90 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 6: that was because they looked like Chaman's fingernails in the right. Okay, 91 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 6: they were, and they're not there anymore. We haven't seen 92 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 6: it for years, but they were certainly there when I 93 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 6: was younger, so probably late late sixties yeah. 94 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, right, okay, thank you. David. 95 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 4: Kate's in East Hill. Should be changing the name of 96 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 4: the beach, Kate, I. 97 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 8: Reckon we should change the name of the beach. But 98 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 8: I reckon we need another seven mile beach in Australia. 99 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 3: Right, But it's not seven miles long. It's only two 100 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 3: hundred and fifty meters long. 101 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 4: But two hundred fifty long beach. 102 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 3: Two hundred and fifty meters beach. What about but you 103 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 3: Originally it was called Rouscheville Beach. Does anyone does that mean? Well, 104 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 3: that's what it was called before nineteen so. 105 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 4: Does that word have a meaning? 106 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 3: I don't know. 107 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,679 Speaker 2: Then they got changed to Chinaman's Beach in nineteen seventy. 108 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 2: Rocheville S S O S H Er the. 109 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 4: Obviously saided with an R. Rocheville Rouschieville. 110 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 3: He said, so Russia R s H E R. 111 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 4: I said that maiden. 112 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 3: Yeah, I did maiden. 113 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 4: That's not arguing, Jim. 114 00:04:58,960 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 3: He just made me swear. 115 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 6: Stop it. 116 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 3: Tim's in South Hurstville. 117 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 4: Hello, Tim, Should we change the name? 118 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: No, so they've changed the name from Chinaman or whatever. 119 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 1: We're about Chinatown. We're going to rename Chinatown. We're going 120 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: to rename Little little Greece, little Italy, a little everything 121 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 1: else in this place, no, and oft the. 122 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 5: Most places are celebrated and make the most of their ethnicity. 123 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting. 124 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 5: We yeah, I mean most people who called him here 125 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 5: seemed to be Anglo Saxon On that first called who 126 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:30,919 Speaker 5: was married to a man whose parents were Chinese. 127 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 2: In Australia, where we're good at that, we're good to 128 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 2: come out with nicknames. But over time we sort of 129 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 2: look at things. If you look at the history of 130 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 2: Cone Island near Newcastle, well. 131 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 3: Well that that that's the thing. 132 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 2: That's what it's called the old black thing, and why 133 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 2: you can't have anything why they changed it? 134 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 3: I said, do you know why it was called that? 135 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 2: Because there was a guy that used to work in 136 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 2: the coal mine in there and he'd come up come 137 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 2: out of the coal mine, or black because he's a 138 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 2: white guy. 139 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 3: And that's why they. 140 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 4: Called it that out there. 141 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 3: And they went, okay, fair enough. When you look at 142 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 3: when you scratch the surf, did you get to the basis. 143 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 4: If there's a derogatory moment to it, then that's a 144 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 4: different story. 145 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 3: Thank you for all your calls.