1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the 2 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers now. 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 2: One of my favorite things about the Happy Families podcast 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 2: is talking to awesome people. One of my favorite people 5 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,159 Speaker 2: in media today is somebody called Angela Mollard. If you 6 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 2: read any kind of media online or even even the 7 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 2: odd fashioned way with paper in your hand, you will 8 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 2: have come across Angela Mollard's writing. Angela is an experienced 9 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 2: columnist skilled in journalism, radio, television, magazines and newspapers. And 10 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 2: I think we've been on TV together before it Yeah, 11 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 2: will you. 12 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: Be on Channel nine together on the Today Not Today 13 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: Today Extra? We used to do and we used to 14 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: thrash things out and it was lovely. You were the 15 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 1: highlight of my week. 16 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 2: Sometimes always fun, not just contributing to TV and writing 17 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 2: weekly for the news court papers on a range of topics, 18 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 2: one of which is parenting. You shut up recently and 19 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 2: do you say Maurray Claire or Marie Claire. I've never 20 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 2: known Murray Claire? 21 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: Was which one did you see there? And why were 22 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:08,479 Speaker 1: you buying Murrayclare? 23 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 2: Justin No, I was just I was just gurgling around 24 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 2: and seeing what else you've been up to. I can't 25 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 2: even remember what the article was, but I do know 26 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 2: that I really enjoyed it because I. 27 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: Was that I did the three of the Matilda's before 28 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: they went overseas, and I did Elizabeth de Bickie from 29 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: The Crown, and I've done Theresa Palmer and Shaketti I 30 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: love working for Murray Claire. Were just make thing. 31 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 2: I don't think it was any of those, but whatever 32 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 2: it was, it just drew me in. It drew me in, 33 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,199 Speaker 2: and I thought, this is why I love Angela Mollart. 34 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 2: I need it on the podcast because of a recent 35 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 2: article that you wrote for the News Court Papers, which 36 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: is that parenting needs a PR job. We've got a 37 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 2: PR problem when it comes to parenting. And your argument 38 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 2: basically is that I don't know people who were sort 39 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 2: of in their twenties and thirties are looking at parenting 40 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 2: and saying it's kind of hard. It correlates with some 41 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: research out of Europe. I came across and study from 42 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 2: Germany that indicated that most German couples are opting for 43 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: zero or one children because once you get past one, 44 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,079 Speaker 2: well it's harder again. And so there's just a there's 45 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 2: a lack of desirability on our younger generation around parenting. 46 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 2: Once upon a time, having kids was just what you did. 47 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 2: You had to consciously opt out of parenting a generation 48 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 2: or two ago, whereas now young people seem to be 49 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 2: consciously determining whether or not they will opt in because 50 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 2: they're worried about careers and houses and deposits and dollars 51 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: and accomplishment and figuring out who they are, just identity stuff. 52 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 2: I loved your article. Where did it come from? What 53 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 2: was the idea behind it? 54 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: Look, all most of my articles come from just listening 55 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: to hearing people having conversations. And I have friendships with 56 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: people in their late twenties and thirties, and some you know, 57 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: through relatives and things. I can hear this conversation. And 58 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: I was actually speaking to someone, a couple who were 59 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: getting married about a week before I wrote this piece, 60 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: and it was just like, gosh, all our friends that've 61 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 1: started having babies there and these two were and thirty two, 62 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: and they said, you know, none of them make it 63 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,799 Speaker 1: look or sound any fun. They're always talking about how 64 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: tiring it is. You know, they're always exhausted. You know, 65 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: somebody even gone so far as to say, you know, 66 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: you should think seriously about doing this. It really changes 67 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 1: your life, and it really made me think about it. 68 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 1: I think since the turn of the century and the 69 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: sort of since we started having mummy bloggers, I think 70 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: the whole notion of talking about parenting has largely been 71 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 1: and you know, it's great just talk about the vulnerabilities 72 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: and to be open about it rather than simply just 73 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: brushing it under the carpet. But I do think that 74 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: we've spoken so much about how bad it is that 75 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: we've forgotten to talk about the joy of it. 76 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 2: Even as you're saying that, I'm thinking about mummy bloggers 77 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 2: and instau mums and the TikTok parenting. I mean, it's 78 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 2: just it's it's almost rabid in some sections, and there's 79 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 2: a whole lot of people who are not experts who 80 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 2: are masquerading as experts and telling parents how to do it, 81 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 2: and for the most part, they make parenting look hard. 82 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 2: Like when you go away and try to be a 83 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 2: quote unquote gentle parent, it never quite works out the 84 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 2: way that it looks on social media. It looks really hard. 85 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 2: Question for you, did your parents complain about how hard 86 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 2: it was to be a parent like modern parents do. 87 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: Fantastic question. Justin not at all. Never have even now 88 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: my parents that they enveloped their grandchildren. They have them 89 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: living with them for periods of time. I've currently my 90 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: grandparents have one of their grandchildren from Japan living with 91 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: them for this year. They've had others living with them. 92 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 1: They have always embraced it and believed it just a 93 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 1: normal part of life that doesn't actually require as much 94 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: commentary as we currently give it. They always made growing up. 95 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: My mum always made me feel that I was myself 96 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: and my brothers were number one. Her life revolved she 97 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: was a teacher and a special needs teacher, so she 98 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: had a big job. She still sees kids along the way. 99 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: And I always felt like I was just the center 100 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: of her universe. And I interviewed her recently because she's 101 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: turning eighty, and I thought, you know, even listening to her, 102 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: because I wanted to interview her just in case was 103 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: she ever to get to dementia or anything like that. 104 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: That I have a record of some parts of her life, 105 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: and what shone through was just how much she enjoyed it. 106 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: She just enjoyed raising three kids, but she did make 107 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: the point, there wasn't the expectation for the children to perform, 108 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 1: for the children to get to this birthday party, for 109 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: kids to look a certain way on social media, or 110 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: to perform at school. We just bumbled along. And you know, 111 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: I just went to the local co ed secondary school, 112 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 1: I felt, and she talked a little bit about where 113 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: hunger came from kids themselves rather than from expectations put 114 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 1: on them from parents, And I think that made it 115 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: easier for parents and easier for children. 116 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 2: Angela, this idea of your mum being fulfilled by the 117 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 2: role of mother, do you think that that fulfillment is 118 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 2: still evident in twenty twenty four. Do you think the 119 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 2: parents are looking at the role of parenting and saying, yes, 120 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 2: this is number one what I'll be doing. I don't 121 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 2: have to opt in around, It's just what I do. 122 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 2: A number two I expected to be fulfilling. And could 123 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 2: that be part of the problem as well? For all 124 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 2: of those times, Let's face a lot of the time 125 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 2: parenting is not fulfilling. It is actually it's a bit 126 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 2: of a grind. 127 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: There's a lot to night but me boring, it can 128 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: be grindy. We can I think we measure it more 129 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: than we ever used to. We focus on outcomes more 130 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 1: than just letting it flow. But to answer you a 131 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: question about do you think it can be fulfilling? The 132 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: reason one of the reasons I read this piece is 133 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: that I woke up one morning from a text from 134 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 1: my daughter, who is twenty. She was upstairs. A possum 135 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 1: had got into her room at night, and she'd sent 136 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: me a message overnight saying, Mum, there's a possum in 137 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: my room. I didn't want to wake you up, but 138 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: I think it might be a two man job to 139 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: get rid of it. And I lay there in bed 140 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: before I jumped up and went to deal with the possum. 141 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: I lay there and thought, this little girl used to 142 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: come into my bedroom every night for a year. It 143 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: used to do my head, and it used to be 144 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: was so. And then one day she just stopped. And 145 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 1: I realized that everything in parenting just passes, and if 146 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: you just go, okay, this is just happening. Now now 147 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: I have this twenty year old, this fully girl, an 148 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: adult who dealt with this problem herself. Went up there 149 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: in the after I'd laying there for ten minutes, just 150 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: really reflecting on I've raised an adult and she can 151 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: now deal with things on her own, including a possum. 152 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: And I went upstairs and the possum had got itself 153 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: out through the window that had come in. There were 154 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: droppings all over her desk, next to her perfume bottles 155 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: and you know, and her books. And I just thought, Wow, 156 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: I'm so fortunate that this human. I've created this human 157 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: and I get these experiences all the time. Look, I 158 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: will say there were moments in the park when I 159 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: was pushing them and I had a deadline, and I 160 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't I as a journalist. It was 161 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: I have a very sort of erratic working life. But 162 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: I'm really grateful. There's nothing in my life that means 163 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: more than them, and I'm so grateful I had them. 164 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: And I just don't hear that story anymore. Don't hear 165 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: the joy of it. I hear how tired is how 166 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: I need to have a glass of wine to get 167 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: through it. And I'm not critiquing any of that, but 168 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: I just wonder if we were more present with it, 169 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: and if we you know, one of the reasons I 170 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: wrote the headline is I did that. You know, it 171 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: needs a pr job is that the government, the treasurer 172 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: is talking about we need more kids. The birth rates 173 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: fall and it's dropped significantly in cities. But rather than 174 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: just saying have a child, we're not really showcasing how 175 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: joyous it can be. And the and I just think 176 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: if we can encourage more conversation about it, so that 177 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: when that thirty year old sits down, we're thinking about 178 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: having a baby, the friend says, oh, yeah, we were. 179 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: You know, we had a hard night. But honestly, that smile, 180 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: that little smile just makes my day. I just don't 181 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: think we're hearing that we skew to the negative. 182 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 2: Angela. I've become a grandfather in the last year and 183 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 2: it's brought back the most joyful and delightful parts of 184 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 2: what parenting is. I sense as I'm listening to what 185 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 2: you're talking about that a lot of people are focused 186 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 2: on the short term. And the short term is PuO 187 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 2: explosions that go up the back and out the neck 188 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 2: of the jumpsuit. The short term is sleepless nights. The 189 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 2: short term is I don't want to eat my dinner 190 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 2: on the green plate. I want the blue plate. And 191 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 2: of course we've got things like diagnoses and the work, 192 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 2: the work juggle, trying to get family life around that. 193 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 2: And yet I see that little soon to be one 194 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 2: year old smile at me, and I just I almost 195 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 2: want to weep. It's so gorgeous. And the long term, 196 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 2: the long term of parenting is, as you've said, seeing 197 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 2: this twenty year old deal with the possum that got 198 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 2: into the room overnight, and I don't know, your child 199 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 2: still managed to survive, didn't end up with scratches and 200 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 2: have her eyes gouged out by by that possum. The 201 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 2: long term is becoming a grandparent, like I mean, that's 202 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 2: a really long term play. But oh my goodness, I'm 203 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 2: getting weepy just thinking about it. The long term is 204 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,079 Speaker 2: seeing your child achieve something where they the odds. The 205 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 2: fulfillment that comes from that is so extraordinary. But I wonder, 206 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 2: I wonder if you were to reflect on what you 207 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 2: wrote in this article about parenting needing a pr job, 208 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 2: and if you were to take the straw man argument 209 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 2: that so many make that parenting is too hard and 210 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 2: turn it into a steel man where we argue that 211 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 2: parenting is worth it while still maintaining that sort of 212 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 2: short term focus. Because when you're talking to a twenty 213 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 2: four year old or a thirty four year old, they're 214 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 2: not really looking twenty to thirty years down the track. 215 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 2: They're just thinking, I've got to go through twenty to 216 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 2: thirty years of investment and pain to get to this 217 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 2: payoff that I'm describing. How would you steal man that 218 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 2: short term argument, I'd go. 219 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,959 Speaker 1: Macro over micro. We're always thinking about the micro. We're 220 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: always thinking about this one minute when this kid is 221 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 1: putting their fingers into the power points, or when, as 222 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: you say, they want the green plate not the blue plate, 223 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 1: or they have had a meltdown in the supermarket, or 224 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: they're not sleeping. That's all micro. Those are all micro. 225 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,319 Speaker 1: As you have micro experiences in the workplace you as 226 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: a journalist, I might spell something wrong, or there's something 227 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: grammatically incorrect, or I'm trying to get an interview with 228 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: someone and I don't get it. They're all micro. The 229 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: macro is that I've loved my journalism career, so having 230 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: you can. If you take a macro approach to parenting, 231 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: it's pulling back out from the micro. So actually draw 232 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: your lens back out as if you've got a camera 233 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: on it. Sail above it. Take a bird's eye view 234 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: on it and think where will this be? You know, 235 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 1: what was it like for my parents? What was it 236 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: like when these children potentially do have grandchildren? Just pull 237 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: back the lens and think what could this be in 238 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: years to come? I can't you know, even if you 239 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: can't really envisage it, use your imagination, because there was 240 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: a reason you had them in the first place, right 241 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: you didn't just you know, most people would have planned 242 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: having a child. You would have imagined some kind of magic, okay, 243 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: and the magic that created them. We all know the 244 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,839 Speaker 1: magic that mostly creates them. Sometimes you know there's other 245 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: magic either year there's magic too. Try and impart the 246 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: magic that led you to create them to the magic 247 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 1: that you'll end up with in the end, and not 248 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: just in the end, every year, every day. Some Yeah, 249 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: there might be something hard or something negative, but there's 250 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: still magic. But I think one of the hardest things 251 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: is that the negativity and round parenting has grown as 252 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: we've had dual working parents, and I think so we've 253 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: lent into that productivity means we do that it's a 254 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: different lifestyle. We have more kids in childcare. I totally 255 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: understand all of that, But I wonder if we also 256 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: think about legacy, Like I know a lot of kids 257 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: at school, do they do this thing in their later 258 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: years where they think about what their encourage to think 259 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: about what their legacy will be. I think your legacy 260 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: when you're parenting. You know, I've had times when I've 261 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: given my all to my work, like I'm on a deadline. 262 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: Even the other night, my daughter wanted me to watch 263 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: the NRL with her, and I was trying to deal 264 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: with something sitting on there and that later that night 265 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: I went, she just really wanted me to watch the 266 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: footy with her. Why did I not watch the footy 267 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: with her? I was just thinking I had to deal 268 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: with this thing right now. I think just sometimes what 269 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: is what's the end game here? And the end game 270 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: is that you have these beautiful people in your lives 271 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: forever more hopefully. 272 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 2: The key word perspective, Yeah, yeah. 273 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: It is. It really is perspective. And you know, I 274 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: don't know how we actually do it. I don't know 275 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: how we sell it, but it feels to me like 276 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: we need an add campaign around it, just as we 277 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: did were smoking and seat belts, and if we really 278 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: want to encourage parenting and look. I did this child 279 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: Free by Choice feature last year, three thousand words for 280 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: Weekend magazine for News Corp. And I was really interested 281 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: in what all these people had to say. A lot 282 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 1: of them was environmental, a lot of them was cost 283 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: of living issues. I understand that, I do understand how 284 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: expensive it is, but I wonder whether we were to 285 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: talk more about that moment when they snuggle into your 286 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: bed and all the lovely things that you get, you know, 287 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: when they talk to you, if you could record their 288 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 1: conversation and listen back to it sometimes, that's so funny. 289 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,839 Speaker 1: My daughter when she was little, when she said, you know, 290 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 1: I was asking about how she was born, and she said, 291 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: you know, when you were pregnant with me, if I 292 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: did a handstand, if you did a handstand, would you 293 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: have would I have come out your mouth like that. 294 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: She couldn't conceive of how you could have a baby, 295 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: and you tell me and it not fall out. I 296 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: just I don't know. I just think there's magic that 297 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: you don't expect and that we we don't give up 298 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: on it, but we we forget it. 299 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 2: Angela, I want to share a story with you. It's 300 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 2: a story that I've shared in my presentations over the years, 301 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 2: and i'd love to get your reaction to it as 302 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 2: we come to a conclusion. The story's actually got nothing 303 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 2: to do with parenting. It's a story about a young 304 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 2: man who heard about a gold rush in the west, 305 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 2: so he packed up his things and decided to go 306 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 2: and make his fortune. He sat down by the river 307 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 2: and he panned day after day after day looking for 308 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 2: all of the gold that he was hearing about. Nuggets 309 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 2: were apparently rolling down the river, and all he was 310 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 2: finding was rocks. He'd pull another rock out the pan 311 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 2: and add it to the pile beside him, day after 312 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 2: day after day, all of these rocks mounting up beside him, 313 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 2: until he's destitute. He's got nothing left, and he knows 314 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 2: that he's going to have to go home and ask 315 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 2: his parents to take him back so he can start 316 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 2: his life all over again, just a lot poorer than 317 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 2: he had been before he went out to the goldfields. 318 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 2: As he was preparing to pack up and leave, an 319 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 2: old man, a wealthy prospector walked past him and kicked 320 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 2: at the pile of rocks and made the astute comment, 321 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 2: that's quite a pile of rocks. You've got there, to 322 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 2: which the young man responded, there's no gold here, just 323 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 2: stupid rocks. I've worked, I've given everything, I've lost everything. 324 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 2: I'm going home. The old man picks up one of 325 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 2: the rocks and he cracks it open on the edge 326 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 2: of the pan, and as he holds it open, a 327 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 2: whole lot of gold flecks glisten, reflecting in the sun. 328 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 2: And the wise old prospector says, you're sitting on a 329 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 2: pile of gold right here. The young man responds, no, no, no, no, 330 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 2: no no, I'm not looking for gold flex. I'm looking 331 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 2: for nuggets like you've got in your pouch. The old 332 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 2: man opens the pouch that's on his belt, and the 333 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 2: young man is chagrined, surprised to see that the pouch 334 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 2: is ful not of nuggets, but of gold flex, to 335 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 2: which the old man responds, young man, it's a steady 336 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 2: accumulation of these flecks of gold that has made me rich. 337 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 2: As I hear you talk about pairenting, needing a PR job, 338 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 2: and the things that you've shared in this podcast, which 339 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 2: have just been beautiful, so heartwarming, my sense is that 340 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 2: the best PR job we could have is to notice 341 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 2: the thousands of flex of gold that passed by us 342 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 2: every single day in the river of family life. 343 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: I love that. It's kind of like glimmers, isn't it 344 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: noticing glimmers. I've saw that that word recently. When something 345 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: just glimmers it catches your eye. It is not the 346 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: last very long. It's just a moment. It's just a moment. 347 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: Inhabit it, see it, feel it, because that's all we 348 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: ever have is glimmers it. And you know, there is 349 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: not some moment that you arrive at some imagine tomorrow 350 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: that is perfect with you know your child is perfect. 351 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: That's just what life is. It's just this. Parenting is 352 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: an opportunity to be at the cold face of life, 353 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: doing it beautifully some days and struggling other days, and 354 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 1: just in finding it all and wretching. Because if it's 355 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: all just smooth and even that's not a life, it's 356 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: never going to be a life. So parenting's the same. 357 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 1: It's an appreciation that it's going to be. You know, 358 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: it's going to have moments. But as you say, and 359 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: as that story shows, it's really choosing what you see. 360 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: It's choosing what you notice. And if you choose to 361 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: notice the negative That's what your story will be. If 362 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: you choose to notice those little flecks of gold, that's 363 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: what your story will be. 364 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 2: Parenting needs a pr fix, Angela Mollard. I vote for 365 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 2: you as the person to lead the campaign. 366 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: Oh like you, Justin Miner are a bit more grown 367 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: up now, so I'm handing the baton on to the 368 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: younger parents. But talk about it, talk about the great stuff. 369 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 2: Well, there's something that comes though with being an older 370 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 2: parent and having been through it, you can see why 371 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 2: it's so worthwhile. And I think you've done a beautiful 372 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,199 Speaker 2: job articulating that today. Thank you for your article and 373 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 2: thanks for chatting with me. 374 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 1: Thanks Justin. It's a pleasure. 375 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 2: Angela Mollard a columnist, journalist, radio, television, magazine and newspaper 376 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 2: writer and commentator and all the rest of it. Most 377 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 2: regularly with the News Corp papers on a range of topics, 378 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 2: including the one that we shouldn't leave alone, parenting. The 379 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 2: Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media. 380 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 2: For more information about finding the joy in parenting, please 381 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 2: visit us at Happyfamilies dot com dotu and check out 382 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 2: my book What Your Child Needs from You. It is 383 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 2: a book. About the joy of parenting, and I think 384 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 2: that it will help you to get the reset that 385 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 2: you need to make your family happier.