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Speaker 1: Last week on the show, we spoke to former chair

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Speaker 1: of the Tamimin College Board, Beverly Ratahi, who said that

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Speaker 1: she's been inundated with concerns from teachers about new rules

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Speaker 1: for suspending students at government schools. Now, she said that

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Speaker 1: the new process creates too much red tape. It's going

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Speaker 1: to see teachers not bother suspending students, putting the safety

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Speaker 1: of staff and other students at risk. Now joining us

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Speaker 1: on the line to explain the situation is the Education

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Speaker 1: Department's Deputy Chief executive said, Amin, good morning to you, said.

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Speaker 2: Katie, good morning to you and to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, what

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Speaker 1: are these changes that are either set to be made

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Speaker 1: or are in the process of being made when it

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Speaker 1: comes to suspending students.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Katie. Look that we've done a review

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Speaker 2: of suspension guidelines and really just the strength and current practice. Absolutely, fundamentally,

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Speaker 2: safety in schools is an absolute priority and that hasn't

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Speaker 2: changed at all. If a student is not behaving an appropriate

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Speaker 2: way in Life Education Act, they will and absolutely will

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Speaker 2: be suspended from the school. But some of the changes

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Speaker 2: are really around some procedures that we just want to

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Speaker 2: make sure really consistent for everyone involved.

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Speaker 1: So it I hear what you're saying. You know that

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Speaker 1: it's obviously the department tries to do it's best to,

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Speaker 1: you know, to make sure that if kids are doing

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Speaker 1: the wrong thing and they are risking the safety of others,

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Speaker 1: that they are suspended. But it's not what I'm hearing

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Speaker 1: in practice, you know. I've had a number of parents

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Speaker 1: contact me on different incidents that their children have been

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Speaker 1: subjected to where really they have felt unsafe then sending

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Speaker 1: their kids back to school because the alleged perpetrator or

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Speaker 1: the person sort of you know, hurting their child, bullying

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Speaker 1: their child in a lot of cases physically, is not

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Speaker 1: actually facing any punishment looks.

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Speaker 2: And that's part of this review, Katie. We absolutely want

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Speaker 2: to make sure there are schools are safe. Of course

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Speaker 2: we do. The Education Act is really clear if a

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Speaker 2: student's presence at school constitutes a risk of psychological or

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Speaker 2: physical harm, then that student will be suspended. And that

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Speaker 2: is the case, and the review is about ensuring that

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Speaker 2: when reintegration happens, because we do want students to come

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Speaker 2: back to school. We don't want students wandering the street,

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Speaker 2: of course, but when reintegration happens where students come back

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Speaker 2: to school's done really well, really thoroughly for the safety

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Speaker 2: of everyone involved.

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Speaker 1: So in terms of you know, the changes or what

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Speaker 1: you're looking at doing, why is it necessary?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's always good practice to review policy.

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Speaker 2: And you know what research has told us over the

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Speaker 2: last couple of years is that, you know, repeat suspension

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Speaker 2: is associated with increased likelihood of antisocial behavior, and we

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Speaker 2: don't want kids wandering in the streets. So it's really

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Speaker 2: about strengthening current practices and making sure schools put in

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Speaker 2: place reintegration process for the safety of everyone involved.

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Speaker 1: Look, I get it. I do hear what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: And nobody wants a kid to be suspended and you know,

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Speaker 1: then that's it. They're out of the education system. But

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Speaker 1: I really feel for the victims here. If you've got

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Speaker 1: a situation where your child has been subjected to some

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Speaker 1: really poor behavior on the part of somebody else, you

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Speaker 1: want to make sure that it is safe for your

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Speaker 1: child to return to school. Are you confident that the

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Speaker 1: way in which the Department of Education is dealing with

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Speaker 1: things is doing that.

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Speaker 2: I'm very confident, Katie. Look, I want to make it

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Speaker 2: clear to all the listeners today that we fully support

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Speaker 2: the use of suspension. Schools have to be safe. The

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Speaker 2: ability to remove a student from school immediately is definitely

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Speaker 2: and absolutely there, and the principal's right to remove a

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Speaker 2: student is definitely absolutely that is not going to change.

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Speaker 2: Schools have to be safe and schools will continue to

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Speaker 2: be safe.

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Speaker 1: Is it going to be a situation where principals need

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Speaker 1: to conference call with the department in order to suspend

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Speaker 1: a student.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely not. If a principal needs to remove a student,

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Speaker 2: they can do that immediately. Conference calls are only about

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Speaker 2: long term suspensions after the event. But if a principal

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Speaker 2: needs to remove a student, can I just reassure the

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Speaker 2: listeners there's a principal need through remove a student, that

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Speaker 2: can be done immediately and we will we fully support that.

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Speaker 1: Are there programs for students when they have been suspended?

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Speaker 1: So say a kid has done the wrong thing, they

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Speaker 1: get suspended, I mean them being at home for a

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Speaker 1: week and really just having a week off is not

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Speaker 1: the ideal scenario for anybody. Are there programs in for

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Speaker 1: those students that are suspended to try to mitigate that

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Speaker 1: behavior from happening? Again, but also to make them realize

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Speaker 1: the consequence of their actions.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, there's a lot of work done with students.

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Speaker 2: You know, we might reach out to the family themselves

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Speaker 2: depending on the incident. We've got both school staff and

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Speaker 2: people who sit in central offices who do that, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of work goes into ensuring that students can

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Speaker 2: be reintegrate school. For students and the wrong thing, they'll

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Speaker 2: be suspended. But there's also a lot of work that's

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Speaker 2: done to reintegrate students back into school.

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Speaker 1: So what kind of work, like, what's an example of

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Speaker 1: what they may have to do while they are suspended.

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Speaker 2: Oh, well, look, first of all, we you know, we

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Speaker 2: want to ensure first of all that their education isn't

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Speaker 2: interrupted because we want them to re engage. So schoolwork

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Speaker 2: is now must that must be sent on. But we

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Speaker 2: have engagement officers that might contact the family, except where

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Speaker 2: we might liaise with other agencies if the family has

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Speaker 2: got some other concerns happening, and that is you know,

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Speaker 2: and we will always do that.

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Speaker 1: And so are these changes are they are they coming

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Speaker 1: into place? And we're teachers and the Principals Association consulted

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Speaker 1: about us.

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Speaker 2: Look on one level, we did that consultation really well,

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Speaker 2: but on another level, you know, we perhaps could and

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Speaker 2: should have done this better right at the end. So

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Speaker 2: our focus now is engaging with all the key stakeholders, staff,

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Speaker 2: parents and Principles Association to better understand the feedback and

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Speaker 2: make sure they're fully involved. We are really grateful for

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Speaker 2: the feedback, and Principles are really grateful that we've listened.

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Speaker 1: So when are you proposing that the new policy for

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Speaker 1: suspensions take effect?

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Speaker 2: Well, look, the update to the guidelines will be published

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Speaker 2: as soon as we can. We're obviously in school holidays, Katie,

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Speaker 2: So we are determined to wait for schools to come

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Speaker 2: back and talk to our principles and make sure that

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Speaker 2: they're fully involved in the changes and you know, and

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Speaker 2: we will publish them as soon as we can. We

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Speaker 2: want to do this properly, and we also want to

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Speaker 2: do it as soon as we can.

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Speaker 1: One of the concerns that had been raised with us

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Speaker 1: is that we've been told victims need to then be

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Speaker 1: providing written evidence what's being done to protect them, because

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm thinking about you know, kids, whether they're teenagers,

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Speaker 1: whether they're in primary school, if they're feeling vulnerable as

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Speaker 1: it is, and then they're having to provide written evidence

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Speaker 1: when somebody has bullied them or somebody has assaulted them.

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Speaker 1: Having to put your name on something is a pretty

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Speaker 1: scary thing for them to have to do. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Look, and I'm not aware of that particularly change, So

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Speaker 2: let me just put that one to bed.

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Speaker 1: But absolutely, so that's not happening.

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Speaker 2: No, no, that's not happening. But absolutely taking care of

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Speaker 2: the victims in this situation is one of our cree

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Speaker 2: prior to Students will not be returned to school unless

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Speaker 2: all of those steps have been taken place, Katie, Schools

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Speaker 2: have to be safe totally, you know, and of course

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Speaker 2: will be safe.

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Speaker 1: Well, like I say, you know, I really hope so.

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Speaker 1: And it is something that we get contacted about fairly regularly.

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Speaker 1: I've got to tell live from parents that give us

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Speaker 1: example of different situations that their children have been through.

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Speaker 1: And I'm very aware that there's always two sides to

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Speaker 1: a story. But one thing I feel very passionately about

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Speaker 1: is that I think all children should be able to

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Speaker 1: feel safe at school, whether they're at a public, private,

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Speaker 1: religious school, they should be able to feel safe. And

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Speaker 1: you know, fundamentally, if somebody bashes your kid. You want

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Speaker 1: to be sure that your child can go back to

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Speaker 1: school and not feel worried that it's going to happen again.

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent, Katie. I'm really pleased that you're of

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Speaker 2: that view because that's certainly my view and our of you.

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Speaker 2: We fully support the use of suspensions. School have to

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Speaker 2: be safe, you know, and that is absolutely our priory

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Speaker 2: for staff, students, visitors, whoever it might be. And for

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Speaker 2: those students who aren't going to behave like that, then

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Speaker 2: you will not be in school.

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Speaker 1: So d how are we going in regard to the

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Speaker 1: teacher shortage at the moment if we managed to fill

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Speaker 1: a lot of those vacant roles.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, we're doing really well. I think we're down

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Speaker 2: to about fifty odd vacancy vacancies. Change of course, you

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Speaker 2: know we're in the school holidays, so teachers will now

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Speaker 2: make some different decisions. I think we started off around

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Speaker 2: about ninety at the start of the year and we're

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Speaker 2: down to about fifty you know, give it take depending

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Speaker 2: on current numbers. So our teams are working really hard.

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Speaker 2: But fair Playtic schools. They've done a terrific job in

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Speaker 2: working really hard to fill vacancy.

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Speaker 1: Have some of the former teachers who were sort of

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Speaker 1: pulled from other roles, roles and then deployed into the

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Speaker 1: classrooms if they sort of returned to their original roles

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Speaker 1: or where are things at with that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, some have and some will continue to be redeployed

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Speaker 2: as we as some of our schools may encounter critical shortages.

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Speaker 2: But look, we're really flexible and in you know, the

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Speaker 2: prior is to make sure classrooms are staffed and schools

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Speaker 2: are staffed, and that will always be the priority.

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Speaker 1: Damn the Deputy Chief Executive of the Education Department. Really

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Speaker 1: appreciate your time this morning. Thank you for speaking with us, Katie.

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Speaker 2: Always a pleasure.

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Speaker 1: Thank you,