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Speaker 1: Over the Christmas break, we learned that there would be

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Speaker 1: changes to park fees at some of the Northern territories

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Speaker 1: most loved attractions. Camping fees and the introduction of fees

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Speaker 1: for multi day walking trails is some of the changes

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Speaker 1: which are set to come into play. Now joining me

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Speaker 1: on the line with more information about these changes is

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Speaker 1: the Minister for Parks and Rangers, Selena Rubo.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to your minister.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie, Good morning to you mix listener.

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Speaker 1: Now, Minister, firstly, can you clarify for us what changes

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Speaker 1: or what charges I should say and fees are going

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Speaker 1: to increase.

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Speaker 3: So Katie, that's the body of work that's currently underway.

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Speaker 3: So we've got our department working with particularly key tourism

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Speaker 3: operators about those multi trail walks which you mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 3: the Japela Trail which is a Netbook National Park tabletop

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Speaker 3: track which is in beautiful Lichfield National Park, and the

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Speaker 3: Larapinta Trail which is down in Central Australia. So that

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Speaker 3: work is being finalized. We're hoping we'll be able to

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Speaker 3: the announcement this week which will provide more certainty on

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Speaker 3: the actual cost of those particular trails.

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Speaker 1: So with those trails, the multi day passes, is that

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Speaker 1: for locals and tourists that they're going to have to

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Speaker 1: pay those fees?

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Speaker 3: Yes, Katie, it'll be anyone who uses those trails and

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Speaker 3: books for those trails will incur a cost or incur

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Speaker 3: a fee. That's the number that we're working out now

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Speaker 3: in terms of the cost, but it'll apply to all

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Speaker 3: of those walkers, whether they're territories, interstators or international visitors.

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Speaker 1: How much do people I mean, how much do people

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Speaker 1: pay right now? Is it totally free or what is

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Speaker 1: it going to go up to? Are you still working

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Speaker 1: that out?

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Speaker 3: So two of the tracks don't have associated costs at all.

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Speaker 3: It's Tabletop track and the Larapita Trail and the Japeler

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Speaker 3: Trail has a pretty nominal fee. I think it's only

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Speaker 3: three dollars to walk the jap Below, which is you know,

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Speaker 3: kind of a five to six day walk. So it's

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Speaker 3: making sure that when we have those walkers that the

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Speaker 3: trails are safe, that the amenities are well looked after,

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Speaker 3: that the tracks are very very closely maintained for safety

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Speaker 3: for the walkers, and that's why the fees are being introduced, Katie.

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Speaker 1: So can people sort of expect are they going to

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Speaker 1: go up to twenty dollars? Are we expecting something in

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Speaker 1: the hundreds or is it still totally unknown at this point.

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Speaker 3: So I'm not going to speculate at this point. That's

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Speaker 3: the work that's happening very closely with tourism operators who

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Speaker 3: do provide some of those introductions for the walks in

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Speaker 3: our parks. We have staff of course who work for

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Speaker 3: parks who go out to maintain those trails and the facilities.

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Speaker 3: So that's where some of the costs will be transferred

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Speaker 3: through the department and making sure that those trails are

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Speaker 3: safely maintained. We are looking to do the announcement Katie

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Speaker 3: this week on the costs, but I don't want to

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Speaker 3: speculate on that because that work is being done very

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Speaker 3: closely with our stakeholders at the moment.

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Speaker 1: All right, So that's for our walking trails. Now, what

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Speaker 1: about when we talk about camping fees and other associated

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Speaker 1: costs with using those parks.

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Speaker 2: What's going to go on up?

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Speaker 3: So the charges for the camping fees, Katie, have not

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Speaker 3: increased in over twenty years, despite of course increased costs

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Speaker 3: in managing those campgrounds. We have more people enjoying our

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Speaker 3: beautiful parks, and particularly last year we saw an increase

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Speaker 3: in people enjoying our own backyard, which was fantastic, but

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Speaker 3: unfortunately no extra costs associated with being able to maintain

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Speaker 3: those campgrounds. So that's where the introduction of excuse me

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Speaker 3: not introduction the increase in camping fees. I don't expect

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Speaker 3: it's going to be a huge increase, Katie, but we're

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Speaker 3: looking to start those arrangements in twenty twenty two, so

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Speaker 3: as of next year, but with an announcement later this year,

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Speaker 3: so we're able to stage in some of those increases

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Speaker 3: for the campground fees.

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Speaker 1: And so that's not for locals, that's just going to

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Speaker 1: be for tourists.

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Speaker 3: The camp fees, I believe again they'll be across everybody

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Speaker 3: time camping the site areas and making sure that again

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Speaker 3: we've got those campgrounds that are well maintained and managed,

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Speaker 3: which our parks or ages do a great job, and

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Speaker 3: our park stuff do a great job. But in the

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Speaker 3: last twenty years there hasn't been that increase to be

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Speaker 3: able to match the level of maintenance that's required now

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Speaker 3: with people enjoying our parks and our campgrounds.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 1: Now, you did obviously mention that this is all about

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Speaker 1: making sure that everything's maintained so it's safe and also

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Speaker 1: proper tourist attraction for people when they visit any of

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Speaker 1: these wonderful locations. How much money are you hoping to

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Speaker 1: raise on these on these fee changes.

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Speaker 3: Again, Cay, it's not a matter of raising money, it's

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Speaker 3: making sure that we've got our facilities that are well matched.

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Speaker 3: We have been doing work with our department looking at

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Speaker 3: other jurisdictions, just seeing what the benchmarks are in other

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Speaker 3: parts of the country and making sure we're not left

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Speaker 3: behind and that obviously our parks are valued and enjoyed,

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Speaker 3: that they are safe when they are enjoyed. So that's

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Speaker 3: an area of work that the department has been doing,

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Speaker 3: and as I mentioned earlier, particularly working with some of

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Speaker 3: our tourism operators who do showcase and have businesses that

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Speaker 3: are built around our beautiful parks in the territory and

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Speaker 3: making sure that we've got some crossover and communication and

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Speaker 3: direction through our stakeholders as well.

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Speaker 1: All right, I've spoken to some of our some of

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Speaker 1: those that work in the tourism sector and they were

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Speaker 1: pretty upset last week that there really hasn't been any

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Speaker 1: consultation with them. In some of these cases, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about bookings being made eighteen months in advance to be

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Speaker 1: able to visit these great locations. None of them have

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Speaker 1: an issue with money being invested into these walking trails

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Speaker 1: and into the parks, but they do have an issue

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Speaker 1: with the fact that they weren't consulted. Why didn't you

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Speaker 1: speak to them before making this announcement.

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Speaker 3: Well, this is something that was flagged back in twenty nineteen, Katie,

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Speaker 3: So it's not that could come out of the blue.

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Speaker 1: You have some meetings with those, wouldn't you at the

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Speaker 1: very least have meetings with those with those sectors and

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Speaker 1: with those in positions i e. Like your tourism operators,

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Speaker 1: so that they've got an idea of exactly what's going

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Speaker 1: on and take them along for the ribe with you.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's what's occurring in terms of the fees. Again,

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Speaker 3: as I mentioned, this is something that was talked about

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Speaker 3: and has been exploring. Obviously, twenty twenty is completely out

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Speaker 3: the window with any type of consultation because of COVID

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Speaker 3: and the changes and the priorities that happened in twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty so starting those conversations again, some of these fees,

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Speaker 3: as I mentioned Katie, will not come into effect until

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, and particularly with the camping fees, we're

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Speaker 3: looking at a stage process over three years. So it's

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Speaker 3: allowing people to digest the information. We've got that input

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Speaker 3: from and conversation and advice through the tourism operators now

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Speaker 3: looking to finalize those fees and the announcement of those

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Speaker 3: fees and then provide the general public and obviously our

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Speaker 3: fee operating fees to be able to build in any

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Speaker 3: increase into their costings.

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Speaker 1: So taking that into account and taking COVID into account

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Speaker 1: is twenty twenty two the right time to do it,

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Speaker 1: given how tough the tourism sector has been hit this

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Speaker 1: year and last year.

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Speaker 3: Again, Katie, it's about having those conversations so we can

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Speaker 3: provide some lead in time or cake advice from our

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Speaker 3: tourism operators will be able to provide a lead in time,

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Speaker 3: particularly about any of the staged approaches, and that's the

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Speaker 3: work that's currently being done, so we're able to manage that,

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Speaker 3: manage expectations, but also provide information and provided as early

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Speaker 3: as we can. So that's the work that's currently underway

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Speaker 3: as well.

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Speaker 1: All Right, Tourism have said, well they were blindsided firstly

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Speaker 1: when this was in the NT news, then again last week.

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Speaker 1: Why make an announcement when it seems there is so

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Speaker 1: much details still to get through. Why not consult with

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Speaker 1: them first.

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Speaker 3: This has worked, that was flagged as underway in twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 3: we've actually started some of the more detailed process, which

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Speaker 3: is I think why people quite heightened about this particular

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Speaker 3: topic at the moment. But rest assured Katie and your

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Speaker 3: listeners that the work is being done, that we are

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Speaker 3: working with those tourism operators in particular and making sure

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Speaker 3: that we have those conversations and the input and advice

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Speaker 3: that is on the ground. Looking at the tourism sector,

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Speaker 3: we know that they've been through some very tough times,

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Speaker 3: particularly in the last twelve months with COVID, But one

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Speaker 3: of the really great things we've seen here in the

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Speaker 3: territory is people still accessing and enjoying our parts that

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Speaker 3: want to continue that good work, but also make sure

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Speaker 3: that we've got some of that lead in time to

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Speaker 3: be able to provide advice if there are changes and

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Speaker 3: increases defeat and what those costs will be once we

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Speaker 3: finalize that conversation, Minister.

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Speaker 1: Plenty of people getting in contact with us over the

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Speaker 1: last week or so about Window on the Wetland so

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Speaker 1: wondering why it had to be closed.

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Speaker 3: So Katie, we're looking at this as a temporary closure.

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Speaker 3: Windows on the Wetlands was built in nineteen ninety four,

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Speaker 3: so it's been operating for quite a few decades. I

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Speaker 3: know that many territories myself I enjoyed when I was

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Speaker 3: a school student attending and visiting that particular facility. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: we've seen the pure fact that the numbers of visitors

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Speaker 3: for the Windows and Wetlands has declined over the years,

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Speaker 3: significant drops, Katie. So the cost to sustain that operation

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Speaker 3: and that facility, unfortunately, is just not sustainable at the moment.

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Speaker 2: So what are we talking about per annum to sustain it.

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Speaker 3: So the cost of the facility is about three hundred

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Speaker 3: thousand per annum to operate, and as I mentioned, the

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Speaker 3: visitor numbers have dropped, so there's significant change in keeping

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Speaker 3: up the facility and of course maintaining it. But we're

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Speaker 3: not getting the visitors there that we used to unfortunately, Katie.

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Speaker 3: So we're looking again, as I mentioned, as if this

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Speaker 3: is a temporary closure, we would love for the facility

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Speaker 3: to be reopen and revitalized and enjoyed again. It might

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Speaker 3: be repurposed in that sense. So there's some of the

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Speaker 3: interest areas that we have in terms of a sustainable

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Speaker 3: business model for the operations of the Windows of the

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Speaker 3: wet Landfas Shop, something we'll be looking at.

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Speaker 1: If you're looking at another model, what model is that

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Speaker 1: going to be? I mean, are you talking about a

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Speaker 1: private private somebody privately coming in and running as or

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Speaker 1: what are you thinking about here?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, Katie, I think that there will be well,

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Speaker 3: there has been interest from private investors and operators. We

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Speaker 3: know that we have some really fantastic Aboriginal tourism operators

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Speaker 3: and particularly the t group that's there in the region

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Speaker 3: who have expressed interest. So we'll be working through an

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Speaker 3: expression of interest process through the Department of Parks and

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Speaker 3: making sure that we've got a viable and sustainable facility,

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Speaker 3: a safe and well maintained facility which unfortunately we just

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Speaker 3: can't afford to operate in its current format and the

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Speaker 3: business model that's attached at the moment.

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Speaker 1: All right, minister, let's move along. Just finally, into one

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Speaker 1: of your other portfolios. It was reported over the Christmas

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Speaker 1: period that correction staff we're working at the Palmeston Watchouse

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Speaker 1: due to an influx of remand prisoners. Were prisoners being

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Speaker 1: held at the Palmeston Watchhouse because the prison is full.

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Speaker 3: There's different processes Katie, when we're talking about romand, so

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Speaker 3: sometimes the decision is being made in conjunction with police.

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Speaker 3: So in terms of the details of the Palmeston one,

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Speaker 3: I'm not across the exact numbers, so I won't be

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Speaker 3: able to comment on that at the moment. But there

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Speaker 3: is work very closely with Anti Correction Services and the

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Speaker 3: Department of Police, Fire and Emergency Services when we're talking

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Speaker 3: about people being held on remand and also the impact

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Speaker 3: when there are court decisions and where people are placed.

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Speaker 2: Is the prison act capacity right now, Katie.

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Speaker 3: The numbers are quite high in terms of the Darwin

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Speaker 3: Correctional Center facility, so the numbers are quite high. Again,

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Speaker 3: numbers can change on a daily basis, whether there's release,

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Speaker 3: whether there's remand, or whether there's an intake, so it

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Speaker 3: changes quite regularly. But at the moment it is quite high.

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Speaker 3: The numbers of the Darwin Correction facility.

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Speaker 2: How many are we talking.

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Speaker 3: I don't have the exact figure in front of me,

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Speaker 3: Katie at the moment, but unfortunately there are often high

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Speaker 3: spikes during the wet season or summer period, and this

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Speaker 3: occurs often it's some strange marker around March, but it's

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Speaker 3: occurred a bit earlier this year. So we're just working

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Speaker 3: through those figures at the moment with the Department of

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Speaker 3: Attorney Generals and also with the Vision of Anti Corrections.

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Speaker 1: All right, but are you confident at the moment that

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Speaker 1: you know that despite them, despite the prison being at

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Speaker 1: quite high numbers, that everything is running very smoothly.

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Speaker 3: All our corrections staff do a great job, Katie and

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Speaker 3: making sure that they maintain the safety of the facility

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Speaker 3: and the Corrections Commissioner, I know, is very passionate about

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Speaker 3: some of the work and the reform that we're doing

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Speaker 3: in the justice space, so we kept very very closely

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Speaker 3: communicating when there are areas of concern, like now with

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Speaker 3: some of the high numbers that we're experiencing. But there's

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Speaker 3: some bigger body of work that I think will have

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Speaker 3: a positive impact on some of those numbers as we

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Speaker 3: see that through our justice reform Katie.

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Speaker 1: Well, Minister Ubo, we really appreciate your time this morning.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for covering off on a raft of issues all

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Speaker 1: while we're having technical difficulties in the background. I appreciate

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Speaker 1: your time.

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Speaker 3: We've done well. Thank you, Katie, Thank you listen.

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Speaker 2: Thanks very much.

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Speaker 1: That is your Minister for Parks and Ranges there, Selena

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Speaker 1: ruba Art