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Speaker 1: The Will and Woody podcast that bite sized President Vladimir Putin,

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Speaker 1: Russia's president, had announced that Russia will conduct a special

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Speaker 1: military operation to demilitarize the Ukraine, which is obviously language

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Speaker 1: to describe their invasion of the Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: Have a listen. This is Matthew Chase live on the

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Speaker 2: ground for seeing in earlier.

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Speaker 3: You guys can just get an idea of how intense

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Speaker 3: this actually is.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I'll say, well, I just heard a big bang

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Speaker 4: right here behind me. I thought we shouldn't have done

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Speaker 4: a live shot here. There are big explosions taking place

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Speaker 4: in Kief right now.

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Speaker 2: It's really sad. Stuff is it is evolving.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure you'll have a chance to get home and

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Speaker 3: watch some of your TV tonight.

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Speaker 2: But Huymington joins us.

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Speaker 3: He is the national affairs editor from Channel tenet to

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Speaker 3: join the show.

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Speaker 1: Go.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the show, Hugh. Pleasure to have you on, mate,

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Speaker 2: Thanks for joining me.

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Speaker 5: So the circumstances are what they are? Go again, Hugh,

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Speaker 5: I said, I'm sorry, the circumstances.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, do we haven't a chap?

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Speaker 5: You tell us. It's fairly grim what we've got at

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Speaker 5: the moment that you said, and their Putin has made

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Speaker 5: it official that he's launched. He doesn't call it an invasion,

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Speaker 5: he calls it a military operation, but that's what it is. Yes,

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Speaker 5: so the tanks are on the move.

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Speaker 3: You can, I ask, I think for a lot of people,

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Speaker 3: and I know this is obviously a very complex issue

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Speaker 3: that probably stems all the way back into somewhere in

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Speaker 3: the seventies, But like, why are Russia invading the Ukraine.

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Speaker 5: Well, a lot of it has to do with Putin's pride. Really,

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Speaker 5: Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union into the Communists days,

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Speaker 5: and then after the fall of the Berlin Wall, and

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Speaker 5: then subsequent to that the fall of the Soviet Union,

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Speaker 5: the breakup of the Soviet Union, a lot of those

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Speaker 5: non Russian countries that were within the Soviet Empire, if

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Speaker 5: you like, gained their own independence. Ukraine was one of those.

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Speaker 5: And then in more recent times Ukraine has been keen

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Speaker 5: to really lie itself more with the West than with Russia,

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Speaker 5: and that has disturbed Putin. He's always felt with the

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Speaker 5: fall of the Soviet Union was a terrible geopolitical disare

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Speaker 5: very bad for the Soviet Union, so he wants to

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Speaker 5: claim it's back. His justification as there are some Russian

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Speaker 5: speakers in eastern Ukraine, and so his claim as he's

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Speaker 5: in there to protect and defend them, recognize their independence,

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Speaker 5: but it really has no justification international war. And on

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Speaker 5: the reports that we're hearing in these first hours, it's

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Speaker 5: not just eastern Ukraine, it's right in the capital Kiev,

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Speaker 5: on the Black seaport of Adasa, that's a long way

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Speaker 5: from eastern Ukraine. Amphibious landings are being told. So this

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Speaker 5: looks like a wide front invasion, a war that's been

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Speaker 5: launched by Vladimir Putin really in the last two or

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Speaker 5: three hours.

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Speaker 3: So, Hugh, do you think other countries are going to

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Speaker 3: start getting involved now to help or pret ticked the Ukraine?

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Speaker 5: Well, it's unpredictable, but at the moment you'd say no.

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Speaker 5: And that's because Ukraine is not part of NATO, and

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Speaker 5: if a NATO nation is attacked, then all other NATO

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Speaker 5: nations are required under the treaty to go to their defense.

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Speaker 5: Right now, Ukraine is not wanted to be part of NATO,

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Speaker 5: but that.

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Speaker 3: Was the issue, that was the issue, right like that,

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Speaker 3: they'd express that they wanted to be part of NATO,

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Speaker 3: they wanted to be part of it.

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Speaker 2: And there's been other states sort of in the west of.

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Speaker 3: What the formula Soviet Union that have joined so Estonia, Latvia,

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Speaker 3: those three countries up there, and like steadily it's sort

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Speaker 3: of being like annexed back off.

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Speaker 2: What was the old Soviet bloc.

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Speaker 3: And this was kind of, as far as I can understand,

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Speaker 3: it kind of like the straw that broke the camel's back.

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Speaker 3: Where as exactly as you said, Hugh comes down to

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Speaker 3: Vladimir's pride where he's just like, nah, you can't take

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Speaker 3: that one and correct me.

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Speaker 2: If I'm wrong, Hugh.

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Speaker 3: But the Ukraine is kind of like because Russia in

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Speaker 3: the west is relatively landlocked.

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Speaker 2: Once it starts.

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Speaker 3: Losing those nations towards the west, so if the Ukraine

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Speaker 3: goes where NATO, all of a sudden, Russia hasn't got

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Speaker 3: access to a lot of the resources that it would

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Speaker 3: get down towards other of us that got the Crimea,

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Speaker 3: but it started to sort of block off their supply chains,

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Speaker 3: which is a big part of this yere.

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Speaker 5: Oh look, look, they can access the black seats because

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Speaker 5: they've taken the Crimean peninsula they did at twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 5: They've got access to you know, to the Pacific Ocean

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Speaker 5: through that of Ostok. That far, they've got access to

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Speaker 5: the Baltic access. So in other.

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Speaker 2: Words, it's got nothing to do with supply. That's just

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Speaker 2: what they're saying, and they just want the country.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, I think that it shouldn't be underestimated

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Speaker 5: just how significant this is. This is a land war

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Speaker 5: in Europe. We haven't seen one on this scale, and

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Speaker 5: certainly by a force as large as Russia and Ukraine's

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Speaker 5: got a fairly significant military as well. We'll be fighting

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Speaker 5: on their own, but you know, presumably have some resistance.

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Speaker 5: But this has the potential to dwarf the wars that

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Speaker 5: attended the breakup of Yugoslavia back in the nineteen eighties

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Speaker 5: and ninety and if you look at the death and

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Speaker 5: all the carnage that came from that, this potentially will

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Speaker 5: dwarf that. A country of forty four million people in

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Speaker 5: the business of being invaded at this very hour.

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Speaker 2: All right, man, well, let's address the elephant in the room.

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Speaker 3: Because I was outside before here and the producers on

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Speaker 3: trending on Twitter is World War three. And I actually

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Speaker 3: said to Woods on air yesterday that Einstein once said

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Speaker 3: that World War three might be fought with bombs, but

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Speaker 3: World War four will be.

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Speaker 2: Fought with sticks and steins. There is this concept.

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Speaker 3: Of mutually assured destruction, that we've all got nuclear bombs

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Speaker 3: and we're never going to end up in that space

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Speaker 3: because if someone sends one, then we all send one,

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Speaker 3: and then pretty much we all just absolutely turf each other.

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Speaker 2: At what point do we start to.

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Speaker 3: Worry about how far this conflict can expand how far

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Speaker 3: it will go? Do we trust the people that are

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Speaker 3: in power not to start using that level of weaponry?

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Speaker 3: Is the conflict going to be contained? Is there any

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Speaker 3: like I'm just fearmongering here because I'm getting the vibe

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Speaker 3: in the office and that's what everyone's thinking.

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Speaker 2: Is there any chance that it's going to expand that big?

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Speaker 5: Well, heaven forbid it goes nuclear, because if it does,

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Speaker 5: then we're on a whole new scale of misery. One.

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Speaker 5: It's hard to know how that would happen unless it

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Speaker 5: spreads beyond Ukraine's borders and perhaps the United States gets

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Speaker 5: involved and NATO gets involved, or it would goes so

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Speaker 5: badly for Russia. It starts to putin starts ractically desperate.

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Speaker 5: But when with several steps ahead. We've got a fairly

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Speaker 5: diabolical problem right in front of us as a globe,

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Speaker 5: as a global population right now. I don't want to

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Speaker 5: catastrophize it too too much. It get worse, but it's

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Speaker 5: plenty bad enough just as it is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally fair enough, mate.

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Speaker 3: She was really not what we wanted to hear this afternoon,

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Speaker 3: but important to be informed about it. So Hugh Irvington

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Speaker 3: from Channel ten, they're joining us. Hugh, thanks so much

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Speaker 3: for your time. Really appreciate it.

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Speaker 5: Mate, great to talk to you. Take it.

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Speaker 2: Hurrington, the National Affairs editor up from Channel ten. Totally wild. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's terrifying. That's terrifying. Yeah, I'd hope it doesn't get

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Speaker 2: to that. No, well, obviously one hundred percent. That's what's

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Speaker 2: going on in the UK.

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Speaker 3: We'll keep you guys informed throughout the show if there

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Speaker 3: are any updates there.

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Speaker 2: Hear more of the boys on the full show podcast.

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Speaker 2: You know you want to