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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just answers?

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Speaker 1: Now ten weeks, Kylie, ten weeks until Christmas?

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Speaker 2: Are you counting?

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Speaker 1: I just counted a ten weeks until Christmas? Is that

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Speaker 1: just doing your head in a little bit?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is actually ten weeks. Hello, it's Justin and Kylie.

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Speaker 1: We are excited for our old Do Better Tomorrow episode

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Speaker 1: of the Happy Families podcast. This week something different. Normally

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Speaker 1: we share something that we've each learned this week in

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Speaker 1: our parenting. Maybe it was because of a failure. Maybe

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Speaker 1: it was because we just nailed it and we want

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Speaker 1: to replicate it and be better. I actually feel like

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Speaker 1: my parenting this week's been mostly on song. I feel

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Speaker 1: like I've done a reasonably good job this week. But

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Speaker 1: instead of blowing my own trumpet, you wrote something for

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Speaker 1: our Happy Families members and for anyone who's not a

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Speaker 1: Happy Family's member. I want to give you a sneak

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Speaker 1: peek of the kind of content that you get in

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Speaker 1: our premium membership. Kylie writes a monthly blog. We've got

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Speaker 1: Q and A's, there's webinars, there's a whole lot of

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Speaker 1: other material that we provide for you to support your

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Speaker 1: family better. But Kylie, what you wrote this month for

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Speaker 1: Kylie's Corner, I think any any month particularly, is going

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Speaker 1: to just say oh yes, but any dad is also

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Speaker 1: going to pause and go it's hard. This is this

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Speaker 1: is why being in a family and making our relationship

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Speaker 1: work is so hard. So I wondered if today, well

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Speaker 1: we've already talked about it. I know what the answer is,

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Speaker 1: but I thought it would be great if you would

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Speaker 1: read and share your Kylie's Corner with our audience so

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Speaker 1: they know number one, what they're missing out, but number two,

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Speaker 1: so they can get a glimpse of this insight because

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Speaker 1: it's just I think. I think it's you at your best.

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Speaker 1: So can we can we hear it? Can you read it?

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Speaker 1: What did you call it? What are we? What are

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Speaker 1: we in for?

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Speaker 2: It's called name it? You can tame it. It's just

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Speaker 2: another hump day in our house. Or maybe not. It's

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Speaker 2: eight thirty am. The kids are being successfully dropped off

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Speaker 2: to school, all bar one who was feeling unwell upon

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Speaker 2: waking and has taken herself back to bed in a

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Speaker 2: sick and juice coma. My husband, feeling pressure looming over

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Speaker 2: his head with growing veracity, should be at work chipping

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Speaker 2: away at a deadline now long past, But instead he

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Speaker 2: chooses to lean in. He wants to connect, to be close.

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Speaker 2: He senses that all is not well with me, and

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Speaker 2: he feels me holding back, feels the distance growing between us.

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Speaker 2: Emotions are close to the surface, and yet I haven't

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Speaker 2: actually taken the time to understand how I'm feeling. I

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Speaker 2: know the why, but without any thought, I think I

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Speaker 2: feel sad, sad that his workload is so intense. I

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Speaker 2: feel like I'm not important. But I'm learning that this

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Speaker 2: is just the surface stuff, and if I don't dig

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Speaker 2: deep enough, those feelings can eat me alive, swallowed up

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Speaker 2: in the agony of life as I feel it so

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Speaker 2: as uncomfortable and foreign as it is for me, I

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Speaker 2: choose to lean in. I choose to be held. I

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Speaker 2: choose to get curious, and I choose to share the

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Speaker 2: hard and the ugly truth with him. My truth. The

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Speaker 2: truth is I am deeply sad. He's my best friend,

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Speaker 2: the one I want to spend every waking moment with,

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Speaker 2: and yet anyone who's anyone knows that that's not really

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Speaker 2: possible unless someone else is paying the bills, someone has

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Speaker 2: to go to work. In our relationship, it's him. But

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Speaker 2: when I dig deeper, there's still more. I'm really mad,

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Speaker 2: mad that he loves what he does so much that

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Speaker 2: he often bites off more than he can chew, leaving

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Speaker 2: little room for me at times, a singleness of mind

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Speaker 2: that encompasses its every waking moment, his ever growing motivation,

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Speaker 2: his drive to make a difference in the world, and

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Speaker 2: that makes me realize there's more. I'm jealous. I'm jealous

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Speaker 2: of the time he spends in his head, in his books,

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Speaker 2: on the screen, jealous of all he gives to you,

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Speaker 2: his followers, and all the while, as I try on

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Speaker 2: these emotions tentatively, like a newly made garment I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure quite fits right. As I clumsily try to express

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Speaker 2: how I'm feeling, he just holds me, listening intently. My

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Speaker 2: bag pressed against his chest enables me to keep sharing

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Speaker 2: undaughtered what he might see. If our eyes connect, I

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Speaker 2: can feel the steady beat of his heart, and I pause,

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Speaker 2: searching deeper, still wondering if I've reached the bottom of

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Speaker 2: the well. But there's more. In his distraction. I sometimes

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Speaker 2: feel unseen, and I'm afraid afraid that, after twenty five

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Speaker 2: years together, in a body that has morphed more times

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Speaker 2: than I can count, that maybe I'm not enough enough

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Speaker 2: to pique his interest, enough to keep his interest. He

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Speaker 2: has focused on task more than usual these days, and

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Speaker 2: I can't help but wonder if I am enough anymore.

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Speaker 2: I search the far reaches of my mind. I can

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Speaker 2: sense its presence before I can even name it. I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure I want to go there. It feels all encompassing, dark, heavy,

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Speaker 2: and ugly, but his reassuring presence gives me the courage

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Speaker 2: to press on. On top of it all, I feel

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Speaker 2: enormous guilt, Guilty that, with all he has on his

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Speaker 2: plate right now, knowing intimately the weight of everything he

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Speaker 2: is carrying, I am adding to his already heavy load.

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Speaker 2: Guilty that what he offers me right now is not

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Speaker 2: enough for me, that I can't rest in all we

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Speaker 2: have shared before, or knowing that this is just a

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Speaker 2: small season and time, and there is so much more

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Speaker 2: in store for us to share. Guilty because he has

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Speaker 2: proven in countless ways each and every day we've shared

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Speaker 2: together that I am the love of his life, and

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Speaker 2: he would literally move heaven and earth to be by

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Speaker 2: my side. Guilty that I would find fault in his

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Speaker 2: growing desire to make a difference in the world, that

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Speaker 2: I would get in the way of the great work

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Speaker 2: he is doing and helping families find hope in the

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Speaker 2: world that often paints a dismal picture of the realities

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Speaker 2: of family life. Guilty that I am unable to offer

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Speaker 2: him grace for one more day, a small moment in time,

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Speaker 2: because huh, I miss him. The reality is I miss him,

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Speaker 2: I miss us, I miss life as I know it.

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Speaker 2: At this moment, life is a foreign land we have

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Speaker 2: visited before, and I'm reminded of all I hate about it,

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Speaker 2: the way it pulls you in and traps you in

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Speaker 2: its wake for days, weeks, months on end, no ability

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Speaker 2: to look to the left or the right, as one

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Speaker 2: has drawn almost against their wall. By the light at

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Speaker 2: the end of the tunnel. Something amazing happens, though, when

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Speaker 2: I speak my truth face my demons, not out of anger,

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Speaker 2: not in judgment or in a need to have him

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Speaker 2: fix them and make everything okay, but just as an

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Speaker 2: acknowledgment that they are all there, an intoxicating cocktail of

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Speaker 2: emotion that left alone in the dark abyss of my

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Speaker 2: mind fester and gay momentum left unspoken leave me drowning

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Speaker 2: in my self imposed realities, but brought to the surface

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Speaker 2: and into the light help me realize they're not all

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Speaker 2: of them are truth. They're just feelings spoken out loud.

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Speaker 2: Their presence is no longer overwhelming, their power fading with

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Speaker 2: every passing breath, And as I lay there entangled in

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Speaker 2: his arms, I feel his love soothing, reassuring and real.

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Speaker 2: The beast of emotion left unnamed can easily swallow us whole,

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Speaker 2: but having the courage to draw it out of the

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Speaker 2: deep crevices of one's mind and shed the light of

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Speaker 2: day on it is like turning the light on and

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Speaker 2: watching the shadows of night that left you cowering as

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Speaker 2: a child under the covers disappear in an instant, tamed

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Speaker 2: and no longer taking up precious space in my heart

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Speaker 2: and mind. I see truth. I feel truth. The truth

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Speaker 2: is the road is all uphill right now, and time

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Speaker 2: together is limited. But their light at the end of

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Speaker 2: the tunnel is so close we can almost reach it

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Speaker 2: with both hands. And for the first time since I

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Speaker 2: started sharing, I noticed my heart beating in time with

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Speaker 2: his as one, and as it should be. The dark

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Speaker 2: can't hurt me when I turn on the light. Name it,

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Speaker 2: and with practice we learn how to tame it. All

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Speaker 2: of them, they are a gift to self, a chance

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Speaker 2: to reflect, to learn, and to grow. In Justin's words,

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Speaker 2: it's time to get curious.

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Speaker 1: So I love what you write there. I love the

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Speaker 1: way that you have unpacked your emotional world, and a

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Speaker 1: couple of observations and conversation points out of it. First

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Speaker 1: of all, this is why men say, oh, for goodness sake,

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Speaker 1: it's not more emotions. It's like layer upon layer upon.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm jesting. One of the things that I really

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Speaker 1: want to pull out of this is the amount of

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Speaker 1: effort that's real quiet. It's heavy lifting to really excavate

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Speaker 1: to work out what is at the seat of our emotions.

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Speaker 1: And I love how you've gone through this anger and

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Speaker 1: frustration and sadness and blah blah blah blah guilt until

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Speaker 1: you get to I miss I miss him. That highlights

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Speaker 1: just how much work needs to be done to understand

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Speaker 1: and label our emotions accurately. And we don't do that

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Speaker 1: very often for ourselves or for our kids. We're looking

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Speaker 1: for a quick fix. We're trying to be efficient. We're

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Speaker 1: just trying to move things along, and it sounds hard.

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Speaker 1: And in spite of the hard though, once you do

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Speaker 1: the work, everything's better. Right, just the world makes sense

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Speaker 1: once you understand what is happening emotionally.

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Speaker 2: I think for too many of us we get sidetracked

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Speaker 2: on the big emotion that's at the surface. And for

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Speaker 2: so long I've spent so much of my time just

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Speaker 2: thinking I'm angry. And it's not until you actually allow

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Speaker 2: yourself to sit in that space and to start to

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Speaker 2: just kind of really dig deep that you recognize that

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Speaker 2: that's actually the least of the emotions. It's the emotions

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Speaker 2: underneath that next layer that help you to kind of

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Speaker 2: unpack it. And even then you don't find the answers

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Speaker 2: until you keep going to recognize that what is lying

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Speaker 2: at the very bottom of all of that is often

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Speaker 2: not as big and scary as we think.

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Speaker 1: It is a couple of other points to pick up

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Speaker 1: on what you've written and what you've just said. The

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Speaker 1: first point is I came out looking pretty good in

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Speaker 1: that I was patient, I hugged you, I listened, I

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Speaker 1: asked you a few questions, and we just kept on going.

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Speaker 1: Deeper and deeper. But the more serious point that I

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Speaker 1: wanted to make is at the heart of so much

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Speaker 1: of our emotional distress. Our emotional discontent is a desire

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Speaker 1: for connection, to be seen, to be heard, to be valued,

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Speaker 1: to love and be loved, And really at the very

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Speaker 1: heart of what you were writing about here, you're saying,

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Speaker 1: I need to connect. I need this to be more

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Speaker 1: than a transactional passing each other in the corridor relationship.

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Speaker 1: We've got to see each other.

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Speaker 2: I think the thing that stands out for me is

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Speaker 2: that while I don't for a second suggest that you're

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Speaker 2: sitting there and having to listen to me as I

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Speaker 2: started to unpack, was necessarily easy on the ears. We're

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Speaker 2: very easy to sit in that space and actually feel

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Speaker 2: like this is all your fault and that you actually

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Speaker 2: have to fix it. The reality is that all you

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Speaker 2: had to do was just be there.

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Speaker 1: And I still remember the conversation. It was obviously a

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Speaker 1: few weeks ago now, but I still remember the conversation

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Speaker 1: where you would say something and I had an impulse

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Speaker 1: to say a yeah, but you don't understand, or yeah,

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Speaker 1: but this matters so much, or look at the work

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Speaker 1: that's being done look at the people that are being

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Speaker 1: helped to look at the commitment that I've made, and

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Speaker 1: look at from my perspective. I had to fight that

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Speaker 1: about seven hundred times in the six A tanel What

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Speaker 1: for sixty minutes that the conversation took and I had

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Speaker 1: other things to be doing other than laying there listening

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Speaker 1: to you as you went through a little psychotherapy session

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Speaker 1: with me. Yet as I heard you make your I

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Speaker 1: mean you weren't airing grievances. But as I heard you

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Speaker 1: express what you were feeling, fighting that impulse and instead

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Speaker 1: saying I know, and yes, and what else and tell

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Speaker 1: me more about that, it actually wasn't that hard. And

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Speaker 1: every time I was able to do that, you would

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Speaker 1: pause and go deeper. It's hard for you to do this, though,

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Speaker 1: it's hard for most people to do it, And I

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Speaker 1: think that we've got to explore why it's hard for

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Speaker 1: us to do it and why it matters that we

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Speaker 1: parent the way we do, because there's a link between

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Speaker 1: the two. I think, why is it so hard for

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Speaker 1: you to allow me to hear your voice, and why

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Speaker 1: is it so hard for you to identify the emotions

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Speaker 1: you're experiencing Double barreled question.

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Speaker 2: So at the end of last week, you had an

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Speaker 2: interview on a current affair, and you talked about just

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Speaker 2: this need to rethink the way we pair in our children,

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Speaker 2: specifically around smacking. And I have spent a lot of

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Speaker 2: time not wanting to add my voice to this debate

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Speaker 2: at all, as this particular interview really caused quite a stir.

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Speaker 2: It actually got me thinking about the way I was

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Speaker 2: raised and some of the challenges that I had growing up,

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Speaker 2: and smacking was a huge part of my discipline as

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Speaker 2: a young child, and I've known that and I thought

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Speaker 2: i'd come to terms with everything associated with that. But

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Speaker 2: as the conversations continued to flow with friends and family

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Speaker 2: around the smacking debate, I started to think about the

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Speaker 2: things that I actually learned as a result of smacking.

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Speaker 2: People would easily make the assumption that because I was

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Speaker 2: smacked a lot, I must have been a naughty child.

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Speaker 2: But I wasn't, And if you talk to my parents,

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Speaker 2: they'll attest that I was actually the golden child in

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Speaker 2: the family. But I received punishment a lot. And it

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Speaker 2: wasn't until I actually started to think about what I

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Speaker 2: actually learned in those moments that I recognized how intimately

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Speaker 2: tied my inability to express emotion has become. In those

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Speaker 2: moments where I was disciplined through smacking, I didn't learn

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Speaker 2: that my parents loved me and they were doing this

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Speaker 2: for my best interest. I learned that it wasn't safe

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Speaker 2: to actually share my emotions because you think about the

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Speaker 2: times we discipline our children, it's when their emotions are

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Speaker 2: usually big, whether it's anger or jealousy or envy, whether

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Speaker 2: it's over excitement, whatever the big emotion is, is when

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Speaker 2: the discipline seems to be the harshest. And you know,

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Speaker 2: as I went through and thought about the things that

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Speaker 2: I learned as a result of those experiences, the list

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Speaker 2: just got bigger and bigger, and I recognized just how

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Speaker 2: closed off I have been from being able to actually

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Speaker 2: explore my emotions and articulate them. Because, out of everything,

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Speaker 2: I think, the deepest and hardest thing that I learned

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Speaker 2: through that process was that love was conditional, that my

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Speaker 2: best efforts were actually never enough, that there was no

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Speaker 2: room for error, and that I was unworthy of love

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Speaker 2: and affection. And so, in spite of the fact that

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Speaker 2: I have lived in a beautiful, loving and supportive marriage,

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Speaker 2: being able to actually get to a point where a

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Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago, I was able to unpack in

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Speaker 2: a really deep and powerful way for me those feelings.

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Speaker 2: That has been a really, really scary place for me

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Speaker 2: to see it.

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Speaker 1: Last week, we had a conversation about helping your kids

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Speaker 1: find there in a voice, and I think that listening

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Speaker 1: to this conversation really brings all of this together. When

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Speaker 1: we were raised or when our children are raised in

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Speaker 1: an environment where emotions are shut down through parents being

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Speaker 1: punitive and being quote unquote disciplinarian, it actually cuts them

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Speaker 1: off from their emotional world. It makes them feel like

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Speaker 1: their voice is unimportant, it's on mute. They need to

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Speaker 1: silence their voice and listen to the voice of the

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Speaker 1: powerful people around them. I love the insight that you've

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Speaker 1: had as a result of the current Affair interview. But

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Speaker 1: I also love the insight that you've had in that

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Speaker 1: when we spend the time to go through an emotional

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Speaker 1: identification process, we discover that there is layer upon layer

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Speaker 1: upon layer. If you remember the TV commercial from all

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Speaker 1: those years ago, there's so many layers or the Shrek thing,

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Speaker 1: layers of an onion just got to keep on peeling

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Speaker 1: the layers back. A lot of this is a gendered statement. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: the research bears it out, which is why I'm saying it.

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Speaker 1: A lot of men do not identify their emotions at all,

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Speaker 1: and again, I'm pretty sure it's because the way we're

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Speaker 1: raised is that you just you don't have emotions. You

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Speaker 1: bottle it up, you keep it in. You're either happy,

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Speaker 1: you're good, you're fine, you're no worries, or you're angry.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of about it. As we get better and

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Speaker 1: better at identifying our emotions, we become more whole. We

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Speaker 1: become more vulnerable, more complete, more connected with the people

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Speaker 1: around us. Our relationships are enriched. It's just a Kylie.

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Speaker 1: I love your article, and I'm so grateful for the

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Speaker 1: conversation and for what you've shared. I hope that everyone

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Speaker 1: who's listening is able to pull this apart, to tease

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Speaker 1: it apart, maybe even go and listen to it again

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Speaker 1: with a partner or a spouse or a loved one.

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Speaker 1: I want to add one last thing to this conversation.

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Speaker 1: After the current affair interview, I got a phone call

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Speaker 1: the next day from your mum. I don't think she's

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Speaker 1: called you, but she rang me to say thanks. You've

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Speaker 1: shared openly on the podcast that your mum was harsh.

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Speaker 1: She was a disciplinarian and she would hit a lot.

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Speaker 1: And she thanked me for the interview, and then she

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Speaker 1: told me that she just wished that she'd understood at

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Speaker 1: a younger age what she now knows now in her seventies.

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Speaker 1: She wishes that it was different. I thought that was

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Speaker 1: a powerful, powerful statement. Not every person who hit thinks

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Speaker 1: that it was deserved, and not everyone who was hit

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Speaker 1: things that they turned out fine. And these kinds of

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Speaker 1: conversations help us to open up the pathways into to

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Speaker 1: our hearts and hopefully make stronger connections.

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Speaker 2: Like I said at the beginning, this is not a

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Speaker 2: conversation I've really wanted to get involved in, but as

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Speaker 2: I have started to unpack just the profound impact that

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Speaker 2: it's had in my life, there's just this need to

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Speaker 2: share in a hope that it makes a difference to

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Speaker 2: one family.

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Speaker 1: I think it might be the most powerful podcast episode

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Speaker 1: we've ever done, and one of the most profound things

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Speaker 1: that you've shared. And I really appreciate that. We really

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Speaker 1: really do hope that this has been a useful podcast

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Speaker 1: for you in your home and in your family, and

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Speaker 1: that it does help you to make your family happier.

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Speaker 1: We hope you have a wonderful weekend. Happy Family's podcast

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Speaker 1: is produced by Justin Ruhland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce

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Speaker 1: is our executive producer. And if you'd like more information

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Speaker 1: about how to make your family happier, particularly if you

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Speaker 1: feel like the family's a hot mess, check out the

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Speaker 1: Happy Family's Hot Mess Summit. It's going to be an

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Speaker 1: incredible summit. It's coming up in just a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 1: The Early Birds Special is only on for a short

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Speaker 1: while longer and we would love for you to join us.

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Speaker 1: All the details at Happy families dot com dot au

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Speaker 1: or our Facebook page Doctor Justin Coulson's Happy Families