Speaker 1: Hello.
Speaker 2: My name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yr the
Speaker 2: Order Kerney Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before we
Speaker 2: get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would
Speaker 2: like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of
Speaker 2: which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country. Acknowledging
Speaker 2: the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through.
Speaker 2: As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and
Speaker 2: the storytelling of you to make a difference for today
Speaker 2: and lasting impact for tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Let's get into it.
Speaker 3: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
Speaker 4: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
Speaker 4: Millennials who Want Financial Freedom. My name is Jessica Ricky
Speaker 4: and today, of course, as always, I'm joined by beck
Speaker 4: Sayed because it is Friday and we're here to celebrate
Speaker 4: you guys, the incredible She's on the Money community. Today,
Speaker 4: I'm going to be sharing some of my favorite money ins.
Speaker 4: Becky's going to share some wonderful broke tips, and then
Speaker 4: we'll be helping to answer a juicy money dilemma. This week,
Speaker 4: it's all about what to do in a workplace that
Speaker 4: promotes men over women hate. And then we're also going
Speaker 4: to unpack something you slit into our DMS about and
Speaker 4: this week we're chatting about what to do when you
Speaker 4: discover your sister has and only fans.
Speaker 5: Okay, that's I'm really excited for those ones. I have
Speaker 5: a lot of opinions already, but I'm going to hush, hush,
Speaker 5: and today, Jess, you might notice we do have a
Speaker 5: special guest in studio. Hannah Ferguson is the founder and
Speaker 5: chief executive officer of Cheek Media. Co Welcome Hannah, tell
Speaker 5: us a little bit about cheek Media.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me both of you.
Speaker 1: I am so excited to be here. I feel like
Speaker 1: I was just saying to you before. Both of you
Speaker 1: are on my screen every day I'm watching the reels.
Speaker 1: I'm addicted to that. When I was like so excited
Speaker 1: to be part of a real potentially to be in
Speaker 1: the presence of the reels on my Instagram feed. Ah,
Speaker 1: but it's so nice. But Cheek Media is essentially a
Speaker 1: progressive feminist media platform that commentates on all of the
Speaker 1: big issues in politics, media, and also to things like
Speaker 1: sex and relationships. Just more social and cultural commentary. I
Speaker 1: also have a podcast, which is a news and pop
Speaker 1: culture podcast called Big Smalltalk, which I co host with
Speaker 1: my co founder Sarah, and then I also have a
Speaker 1: book called bite Back. So that's kind of like how
Speaker 1: cheek the umbrella or works. I have different few things
Speaker 1: going on once, and the instagram is cheek media dot Co.
Speaker 1: So it's really just like feminist, left wing opinion on
Speaker 1: the current news.
Speaker 4: Of the day. It's one of my favorite Instagram accounts.
Speaker 4: Like these guys do such a great job of keeping
Speaker 4: up with current stuff but also having a really I
Speaker 4: think relevant, still balanced take because there are a lot
Speaker 4: of things. I think we'll speaking for everyone on our team.
Speaker 4: Really we're all very much devoutly feminists, I suppose you
Speaker 4: could say, and you know, I think sometimes when you
Speaker 4: are that way, it can be difficult to report on
Speaker 4: things in a way that isn't biased. And I feel
Speaker 4: like you do a really good job sometimes of those
Speaker 4: tougher conversations, all those tougher perspectives, and you know, sharing
Speaker 4: a really fair and measured perspective.
Speaker 6: Thank you.
Speaker 1: That means a lot because it is stressful, and we
Speaker 1: know what social media is like, it's reactionary and it
Speaker 1: can be quite inflammatory. So it's kind of hard to
Speaker 1: know how to have the take and the opinion on
Speaker 1: things that are always unfolding in the news as well.
Speaker 4: And always changing. And the internet is so hard. Everybody
Speaker 4: has an opinion and you can't do anything without I
Speaker 4: feel like irritating someone these days, which is really challenging.
Speaker 4: But you do a wonderful job at navigating it. Before
Speaker 4: we get into it, though, have you had a busy week.
Speaker 1: Yes, I've just recorded my podcast this morning. I've actually
Speaker 1: I'm writing my second book right now, so it's really
Speaker 1: tight deadline. There's lots happening. It's very exciting. I mean,
Speaker 1: no complaints for me. It's a privilege. But it's been
Speaker 1: a big few weeks. So got Social netball on tonight,
Speaker 1: all the big hitters fun, you know, everything's important. So
Speaker 1: though it's been a really big few weeks, but I'm
Speaker 1: very happy. I'm going, well, how about you both?
Speaker 4: Really good? Can you give us the inside scoop on
Speaker 4: what the book's about me a little insider info?
Speaker 1: I actually haven't talked about it, but I can. I
Speaker 1: think I can. It's your exclusive breaking that career.
Speaker 4: I'm talking to you.
Speaker 1: Basically, the second book is going to be more about
Speaker 1: societal taboos and what we don't talk about as women,
Speaker 1: in the conversations that we should have been having at fourteen, fifteen, sixteen,
Speaker 1: and the things that we need to know in our
Speaker 1: twenties and thirties that were never spoken about. And so
Speaker 1: it's kind of like we do get a lot of
Speaker 1: self help books, we do get a lot of sort
Speaker 1: of messaging through social media about what to do and
Speaker 1: what not to do, but it never gets that gritty
Speaker 1: underneath layer that we aren't talking about. So it's me
Speaker 1: trying to have the conversations that we've never had.
Speaker 5: Well, that sounds amazing and I just feel like it's
Speaker 5: so needed.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 4: I hope so completely agree.
Speaker 1: Bexster.
Speaker 4: How's your week been?
Speaker 5: My week has been not bad. I don't want to
Speaker 5: sound like a broken record, but just Hannah for context,
Speaker 5: I recently was made redundant, so I've kind of not
Speaker 5: been I've kind of just been using this time to
Speaker 5: as all, look for jobs, as foremost try and find
Speaker 5: another stream of income, and then also just like live
Speaker 5: in life, you know, just doing all the things that
Speaker 5: I've surprisingly been like really busy and I was kind
Speaker 5: of worried about that. I was like, what do you
Speaker 5: know when you go on annually even stuff and you're like,
Speaker 5: what do you actually.
Speaker 4: Meant to do?
Speaker 7: You know, you kind of wake up and you're like,
Speaker 7: what's what do I do today?
Speaker 5: But you know, shockingly being quite busy and just like
Speaker 5: trying to take this time because I know that hopefully
Speaker 5: I'll find a job soon, so being social, doing all
Speaker 5: the things that I can't really do when I have
Speaker 5: a full time job.
Speaker 7: So it's been it's.
Speaker 5: Been really lovely and really wholesome, and yeah, I just
Speaker 5: I've really enjoyed this time, so maybe I don't want
Speaker 5: to go back.
Speaker 7: What about you?
Speaker 4: Good? Nothing crazy excited report. I feel like just plodding along.
Speaker 4: I've started going to pilates, so in my polarates Princess
Speaker 4: era wow, trying to be healthier. Yeah, and I feel
Speaker 4: like I have I mean, we all have our own
Speaker 4: very unique relationship with what that looks like, and that
Speaker 4: can be really challenging in and of itself. But trying
Speaker 4: to just be like, okay, you know what, if I
Speaker 4: go once this week, like that's enough, and if I
Speaker 4: don't go at all, that is also okay. Because I
Speaker 4: feel like I'm very in or nothing mentality, and I go,
Speaker 4: I'm going to go every other day and I'm gonna
Speaker 4: get so fit, I'm gonna do this and that, And
Speaker 4: I really struggle with that because it's hard to commit
Speaker 4: to you, Like, we're so busy and you know, work
Speaker 4: is always crazy and socializing and I stide hustle, and
Speaker 4: sometimes it all just gets so much. And I feel
Speaker 4: like we were talking on an episode very recently about
Speaker 4: setting yourself up for successful failure with goals, and so
Speaker 4: I'm trying to just be kind to myself. Yeah, those
Speaker 4: sorts of things and be like, hey, like if you
Speaker 4: go once, that's awesome, and if you don't go old
Speaker 4: that's cool too. So working on that at the moment.
Speaker 7: I love that because you.
Speaker 5: Know when you like, you do set such a strict
Speaker 5: goal and you're like, I'm gonna go to the gym
Speaker 5: every single day, and then you don't do one day
Speaker 5: and then you feel like you've completely failed, so you
Speaker 5: just end up stopping for the week or for the
Speaker 5: month or whatever. So yeah, just be kind yourself and
Speaker 5: just let yourself go through the motions.
Speaker 7: Love that for you.
Speaker 5: Speaking of little wins, Jess, you have some money wins
Speaker 5: from the community.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I do. There's some goodies this week, starting off
Speaker 4: with a hilarious but also great one from Nicole, who said,
Speaker 4: money Win. I bought an eight pack of sausages and
Speaker 4: there were nine in there. Oh that's I just feel
Speaker 4: like a little It's like the nuggets when you get
Speaker 4: an extra ruggets. Such a little treat. Now I've got
Speaker 4: one from Maria who said money win. I've been collecting
Speaker 4: my bottles and cans for two weeks and you get
Speaker 4: ten cents of can back and it was free money.
Speaker 4: I got sixty six dollars plus another ninety two dollars
Speaker 4: with stuff I collected from work. So she's made I'm
Speaker 4: trying to do the math in my head really quickly.
Speaker 4: Her one hundred and fifty eight dollars, I think.
Speaker 7: I think.
Speaker 4: So, I'm sure someone will tell me if that's not correct.
Speaker 4: How don't see a bucks collecting bottles and cans? And
Speaker 4: that's a lot of bottles and cans that are no
Speaker 4: longer out in the world, which is awesome. That's incredible,
Speaker 4: huge one. And then I've got a money win from
Speaker 4: Imagen who said, this week, I finally hit my fifteen
Speaker 4: thousand dollars savings goal. Thanks to the She's and the
Speaker 4: money hack sheets, I've worked extra shifts every fortnight and
Speaker 4: I was able to hit the goal four pays early,
Speaker 4: which is huge. If you want to get those hacks,
Speaker 4: they're free on our website. It's like bingo but with money,
Speaker 4: and it's very fun if I love that. Next, I've
Speaker 4: got a money win from Tara and she said, if
Speaker 4: you're in New South Wales and you used toll, I
Speaker 4: recommend using the app and getting your rebate for either
Speaker 4: this year or last year. If you hit the threshold,
Speaker 4: they don't tell you automatically, so you have to go
Speaker 4: into the app and check. Both herself and her partner
Speaker 4: got a couple of hundred dollars back each. And you're
Speaker 4: in Sydney, aren't you, Hannah, Have you ever done that?
Speaker 1: Yes? But I was going to say my win slash loss,
Speaker 1: because I had a bit of both, was that I
Speaker 1: got a parking ticket in Sydney because I've just moved
Speaker 1: to the city where it's like one hour parking and
Speaker 1: so like, I'm done with the tolls. The tolls aren't
Speaker 1: my nightmare, right And I always try to fight the
Speaker 1: admin fees. If I ever missed one, that's a big
Speaker 1: deal to me. Yeah. But with the parking ticket, my
Speaker 1: property was listed as a commercial business lot of residence.
Speaker 1: So I applied for a parking permit and they said no.
Speaker 1: So then I fought that, and in the meantime, I
Speaker 1: was getting parking tickets because I have this one hour
Speaker 1: parking and I fought them all and said, you've not
Speaker 1: actually provided me with a parking permit. I've been trying
Speaker 1: to fight you on it. And I got all these
Speaker 1: parking tickets wiped.
Speaker 7: Oh my god, that's so good.
Speaker 1: And obviously I knew I could do it, Like I
Speaker 1: believed that this was wrong, but I was so worried
Speaker 1: they weren't going to accept the reasoning. So I just
Speaker 1: had like a clean slate now. And the anxiety was building.
Speaker 1: And that's most of it. It's so much anxiety about
Speaker 1: looming spending. And so I was like to have that
Speaker 1: cleared win after quite a significant l it felt like,
Speaker 1: so I'm very pleased with myself.
Speaker 7: Oh that's so good. Did you end up getting a permit?
Speaker 1: No, yes, yes, it's all fine. Now, it's all good.
Speaker 1: But it was it was a stressful three weeks there.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, that's crazy. I love taking a loss
Speaker 4: making it a win. That's awesome. Yeah.
Speaker 5: And also just like battling the big dogs, you know
Speaker 5: what I mean. Really, that's really.
Speaker 1: Cool writing the letter. You know, there's like I have
Speaker 1: a law agree, it's kind of my background. So writing
Speaker 1: that letter is sweet victory, you know what I mean. Like,
Speaker 1: it's just getting really professional behind a keyboard in like
Speaker 1: a nasty kind LinkedIn way, you know what I.
Speaker 4: Mean, I am professionally keyboard worrying.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that is so awesome, perfect.
Speaker 4: And that will round out the money wins and losses
Speaker 4: this week. Beck, Have you got some fabulous broke tips
Speaker 4: for us? I do have some Brogue tips for you guys.
Speaker 5: One an emparticular, very excited so as always, is one
Speaker 5: from the community, one for myself, and then I don't
Speaker 5: know if you happen to have one, we'll go to
Speaker 5: you after. But first one comes from Jocelyn, who says,
Speaker 5: join your local buy nothing group. I've gotten everything from
Speaker 5: yarn to containers to TV stands for free. Saves your
Speaker 5: wallet and saves things from going to landfill.
Speaker 2: And love that.
Speaker 5: It's also the same as like hard rubbish and stuff
Speaker 5: like that. Don't sneeze at hard rubbish. Really good finds
Speaker 5: out there. I love picking something up from the side
Speaker 5: of the curb. And similarly, if you have stuff to
Speaker 5: get rid of, I've done this when I've moved house.
Speaker 5: Is if there's like a Facebook.
Speaker 4: Group for the area that you live, like if the
Speaker 4: estate or the suburb or whatever, you've got stuff and
Speaker 4: you need to get rid of it, just chucking up
Speaker 4: a post and saying hey, like here's a photo of
Speaker 4: all the stuff. It's on my nature strip. If you
Speaker 4: want it, come grab it. Because it goes to someone
Speaker 4: who wants it. It means that you don't have to
Speaker 4: take it to the up shop or take it to
Speaker 4: the tap or take it anywhere. Like it's all done
Speaker 4: for you, and I feel like it's just a nice
Speaker 4: way to pay it for it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: True, in this economy, we love helping other people absolutely.
Speaker 5: And also yes, that's true. You do save money on
Speaker 5: like going to the tip. It's actually surprisingly expensive. Yeah,
Speaker 5: because they weigh your car while you're in it, don't
Speaker 5: I'm you know.
Speaker 4: I'm contributing at least.
Speaker 5: Exactly, Like, let me get out first and then you
Speaker 5: can weigh my rubbish and then my own personal broke tip.
Speaker 5: And you know, I usually kind of like to to
Speaker 5: come at this from you know, a perspective of let's
Speaker 5: say you have fifteen dollars to last year the week,
Speaker 5: like how do you kind of get through? But this
Speaker 5: one's more a broke tip for the future. Have you
Speaker 5: guys heard of the app Grow Your Money? No, it's
Speaker 5: really really cool. So a friend is telling me about this.
Speaker 5: It's an app for women or female identifying and it's
Speaker 5: basically like, if you go to certain stores that have
Speaker 5: agreement like this app has agreements with certain stores, if
Speaker 5: you spend money there, a percentage of that spend or
Speaker 5: that purchase will go into your either mortgage or your
Speaker 5: super It's kind of like on the way to bridging
Speaker 5: the gender pay gap in a nice little way, you
Speaker 5: know what I mean. Like it's doing their bit. So
Speaker 5: Grow your Money app. I really recommend it.
Speaker 4: Hannah.
Speaker 7: Do you happen to have a broke tip that you'd
Speaker 7: like to share?
Speaker 1: Look, I'm not sure that mine's that original, but it's
Speaker 1: something that's original to me because I've just come across
Speaker 1: it and when I publish my book, I noticed that
Speaker 1: so many people were queuing up at libraries to get it,
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, is that I just I'd
Speaker 1: never thought about libraries. Obviously any of they existed. I
Speaker 1: love them as a child, but I'd never thought about
Speaker 1: how that actually works for authors. But authors are still
Speaker 1: paid every time a book is borrowed from a library,
Speaker 1: So if you're someone who goes to libraries and borrows books,
Speaker 1: don't be worried about how much the author makes because
Speaker 1: they're still getting I think it's like a dollar fifty
Speaker 1: per borrow. But the libraries also have an application which
Speaker 1: has hundreds of audiobooks on that you can access for free.
Speaker 1: So if you're someone who likes audiobook that doesn't want
Speaker 1: to pay for Audible because it's really expensive a lot
Speaker 1: of audio listening apps, libraries have an actual catalog that
Speaker 1: you can access on your phone. You don't have to
Speaker 1: go in and hire a disc like. You actually can
Speaker 1: access as material for free. And I think that a
Speaker 1: lot of people who are avid readers wouldn't know about it.
Speaker 1: Potentially no, and.
Speaker 4: It's such a good if you're someone who likes to read,
Speaker 4: but maybe you don't have the time or the attention
Speaker 4: span audiobooks are great because you can two times speed
Speaker 4: them and just see through that thing.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I can't absorb information that fast, but if you.
Speaker 7: Can, that's a great idea.
Speaker 4: That's an awesome one. All right, guys, Well, let's run
Speaker 4: to a really quick break, and when we come back
Speaker 4: on the other side, we're gonnachat about what to do
Speaker 4: in a workplace that promotes men over women, and what
Speaker 4: to do when you discover your sister is on OnlyFans
Speaker 4: don't go anywhere. Welcome back, everybody. Let's take a listen
Speaker 4: to this week's money dilemma.
Speaker 8: Hi, there, have you got a money dilemma you just
Speaker 8: can't solve? The Sheess on the Money Team is here
Speaker 8: to help. Every week we tackle your dilemmas, both big
Speaker 8: and small, to answer your most burning money, career and
Speaker 8: life questions. To get involved, simply head to our website
Speaker 8: and leave us a short voice recording and you might
Speaker 8: just find yourself on the show. Now, let's take a
Speaker 8: listen to this week's money dilemma.
Speaker 6: Hey, girls, I'm a chef in a mostly male kitchen
Speaker 6: at a very popular and high level restaurant. I've worked
Speaker 6: so hard to rise through the ranks here, And in
Speaker 6: case you didn't know, kitchens are super male dominated and
Speaker 6: intense work environments. I've put in long hours and I
Speaker 6: do extra work to create special dishes in my own
Speaker 6: time that sell out when they go on the menu.
Speaker 6: But I've just been overlooked for a promotion that would
Speaker 6: see more pay for a male chef who is not
Speaker 6: only newer on the team, but doesn't do any of
Speaker 6: this work. I'm devastated. Should I leave raise it with
Speaker 6: my boss? Or am I just being silly?
Speaker 4: Oh that's such a tough way. It's making me angry
Speaker 4: to think.
Speaker 7: That's why you're not being silly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was about to say that too. The starters.
Speaker 1: That's an easy one. It's not silly at all. And
Speaker 1: I think that's that's the first step, isn't It is
Speaker 1: that women tend to demean themselves out of the ability
Speaker 1: to ask questions and to apply for roles they may
Speaker 1: not feel it qualified for, even though they absolutely are.
Speaker 1: And we use the language against ourselves in the first instance.
Speaker 1: That really prevents us from almost acts as an extra
Speaker 1: blockade to our success. You know, the system is against us,
Speaker 1: and then we're against ourselves, So that's not helpful. In
Speaker 1: the first instance.
Speaker 4: Really no, definitely not, and it's hard. I think it's
Speaker 4: applicable to so many industries beyond hospitality, or anyone who's
Speaker 4: a waitress can attest to the fact that kitchens are
Speaker 4: absolutely insane and generally men and they're always yelling, and
Speaker 4: they're doing this, that and the other. Quite frankly, they
Speaker 4: could probably use a woman's touch to make a little
Speaker 4: you know, bring a little organization. Not to generalize, but yeah,
Speaker 4: I think it's applicable to so many industries well beyond hospitality.
Speaker 4: Do you guys think I mean, my opinion really is, yeah,
Speaker 4: you should leave if they're overlooking you. I think that
Speaker 4: it sounds like a cultural issue, but I feel like
Speaker 4: it could be worth raising it too, because sometimes these
Speaker 4: biases are really unconscious, and you know, if we don't
Speaker 4: have the conversations, we can't necessarily expect to facilitate change.
Speaker 4: I know that it can be really tough to have
Speaker 4: those conversations, and I'd love to know how you guys
Speaker 4: think that our listener could approach something like that.
Speaker 5: It's so tough because really, like it is still a thing.
Speaker 5: I guess, like I am curious to know, Like if
Speaker 5: your boss is male or female seriously, because like I
Speaker 5: don't want if you are to talk to your boss,
Speaker 5: like I don't want you to feel like deflated or
Speaker 5: kind of like, you know, not to throw this word
Speaker 5: around so liberally, but you know, you might be gas
Speaker 5: lit into believing that it's.
Speaker 7: Genuinely not a gender thing.
Speaker 5: And really we can speak from experience and like see
Speaker 5: that from experience, it does seem that in these kind
Speaker 5: of situations men tend to get promoted over women, and
Speaker 5: it's really shame. It's just such an I'm so sick
Speaker 5: of this kind of thing happening. Who knows, Like we're
Speaker 5: not there, we don't know the context. We could all
Speaker 5: be like you know, assuming, but I just don't like
Speaker 5: that this is still a thing.
Speaker 7: I think.
Speaker 5: Yes, maybe have a chat with your boss, try not
Speaker 5: to get deflated if your boss is not really seeing
Speaker 5: what you're seeing or just like is kind of making
Speaker 5: you feel like it's not gender related, like it actually
Speaker 5: might not be. But still and then yes, try and
Speaker 5: find a company that supports women and that it's maybe
Speaker 5: run by women, owned by women. I don't know, but
Speaker 5: just try and find a different culture, like as just says,
Speaker 5: I feel like it is probably more cultural, but yeah,
Speaker 5: it is a thing that happens. You're not being silly,
Speaker 5: You're not crazy, you're not silly, You're not any of
Speaker 5: these things. I basically want you to validate yourself because
Speaker 5: we're validating you.
Speaker 1: And I think one of the most common experiences, especially
Speaker 1: in the workplace it's being described, is that there's a
Speaker 1: lack of a paper trail. So at least in corporate offices,
Speaker 1: there's always this sort of like paper trail where you
Speaker 1: can clearly see the communication and lay out a timeline
Speaker 1: of events that may actually speak to the fact that
Speaker 1: this is more objective gender discrimination and gives more rise
Speaker 1: to like a professional formal complaint that can be made
Speaker 1: and taken to somewhere like the Fair Work Commission or
Speaker 1: a body that's suited to deal with something like this.
Speaker 1: But it's so hard when you're working, say in a
Speaker 1: kitchen as a chef, and you know that all of
Speaker 1: the interactions you're having or ninety percent of them are
Speaker 1: not via text or via a phone call, or via
Speaker 1: voicemail or via email, and there's a lack of a
Speaker 1: trail that you feel you can speak to objective evidence, right,
Speaker 1: So it is something where you want to be raising
Speaker 1: it with your boss in the first instance, and just
Speaker 1: asking I would even suggest, like in the first instance,
Speaker 1: having the conversation not through the learns of is it
Speaker 1: because I'm a woman, but saying like, can you just
Speaker 1: explain to me why this person was selected? Not in
Speaker 1: like an obviously like a personal attack way, but almost
Speaker 1: in a looking for feedback as to what could be
Speaker 1: done next time, Because if you approach the conversation like that,
Speaker 1: even though you could be absolutely enraged and have every
Speaker 1: right to be, you're opening up a conversation where they're
Speaker 1: pretty much giving you the answer consciously or not, as
Speaker 1: to what happened there, and you can take whatever information
Speaker 1: you gathered and actually move forward that And I think
Speaker 1: that can be really telling because then if they point
Speaker 1: to specific things and you have your arguments of when
Speaker 1: you started, what your qualifications are, and the distinction between
Speaker 1: you and the person that was chosen over you, you
Speaker 1: can then start to paying the clearer picture as to
Speaker 1: what's happened, and whether that's that you want to make
Speaker 1: a gender discrimination complaint about your workplace formally, whether you
Speaker 1: want to look for work elsewhere. I think it's about
Speaker 1: having the conversation in the first instance, to kind of
Speaker 1: look at, Okay, what reasoning has been communicated to me,
Speaker 1: and how do I feel about that reasoning before you
Speaker 1: can make any further steps.
Speaker 7: Yeah, really good point.
Speaker 4: I was going to say, ask for the data. I say,
Speaker 4: so to speak around, you know, having a conversation with
Speaker 4: your manager or whoever was the hiring You know, I
Speaker 4: saw that X y Z got this job. I also
Speaker 4: applied for this job. Can you explain to me, you know,
Speaker 4: what were the points of difference between us? And maybe
Speaker 4: they say, oh, they've got this qualification or they've got
Speaker 4: this skill, or they've done this or done that, and
Speaker 4: then you can use that metric as a baseline to say, oh, well,
Speaker 4: actually I have this, or I have that or I
Speaker 4: did this instead. And as you were saying, it really
Speaker 4: opens up firstly, the opportunity for conversation where you know,
Speaker 4: if it is a situation where perhaps the deciding factor
Speaker 4: wasn't gender biased, then you know, now you have an
Speaker 4: understanding of what your clear markers or steps are to
Speaker 4: receive that promotion opportunity next time it comes up. And
Speaker 4: if that's not the case, if you know it is
Speaker 4: leaning more towards the space that you are being discriminated against.
Speaker 4: It gives you something concrete and solid to say, hey, like,
Speaker 4: based on the facts, based on the statistics that we
Speaker 4: can't argue with, this is the experience that I'm having,
Speaker 4: And it allows you to have that conversation either with
Speaker 4: your manager or as you were saying, with the appropriate
Speaker 4: body to report them, be that fair work or somebody else,
Speaker 4: in a way that isn't skewed by emotion, because I
Speaker 4: think when we have these conversations around gender bias, it
Speaker 4: tends to often be brought up, Oh, you're being emotional,
Speaker 4: or women have a tendency to be emotional, you have
Speaker 4: a tendency to take it a certain way. And I
Speaker 4: think if we take the emotion out of it and
Speaker 4: really just operate on solid facts, solid information, and wherever
Speaker 4: possible document it in writing, so via email, via text,
Speaker 4: because as Hannah was saying, a lot of the time
Speaker 4: in these kinds of workplaces, someone's yelling something at someone
Speaker 4: across the kitchen and it's not necessarily formally documented. Having
Speaker 4: that concrete, in arguable evidence, so to speak, will help
Speaker 4: you down the line, no matter what choice you want
Speaker 4: to make in terms of how you pursue it, I think, yeah.
Speaker 1: And also I was just going to add the one
Speaker 1: thing I would recommend everyone's going to have a look
Speaker 1: at is the Workplace Gender Equality Agency, which is the
Speaker 1: government's agency that really looks into things like the gender
Speaker 1: pay gap and gender discrimination laws in this country. And
Speaker 1: it's not about saying need to pursue a formal complaint.
Speaker 1: That's totally up to you. Gives you the tools and
Speaker 1: the resources to know what your work post rights are
Speaker 1: and how to pursue that line if you are interested
Speaker 1: in it down the track.
Speaker 4: And also just a lot of really interesting data and statistics,
Speaker 4: Like we reference their data a lot in posts that
Speaker 4: we do for Instagram and stuff, because they have a
Speaker 4: lot of just really good information. It's coming from a
Speaker 4: government body, so you know that it's solid, you know
Speaker 4: that it's really holistic. And they have an Instagram. They
Speaker 4: have very few followers, but I would definitely recommend checking
Speaker 4: them out because they feature a lot of interesting stats
Speaker 4: on there. It's WGE Agency is their Instagram. But yeah,
Speaker 4: I feel like that wraps that up in a nice
Speaker 4: little bow. More than anything, I just want to say
Speaker 4: I'm sorry. I think a lot of us can relate
Speaker 4: to being in that situation where you feel like perhaps
Speaker 4: you're in a male dominated space and you're not being
Speaker 4: heard or honored in the way that you deserve to be,
Speaker 4: and that just can impact like how you feel about
Speaker 4: yourself as well. And I just want to say that
Speaker 4: your valid and your your skill set and just you
Speaker 4: as a human being is not based on the perception
Speaker 4: that the people around you have in the workplace or
Speaker 4: in anywhere other situation. Either. I'm sorry that that's happening
Speaker 4: to you, and you one hundred percent deserve better. Don't
Speaker 4: overlook or minimize that feeling.
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, very well said, Thank you.
Speaker 4: Should we change the tune ever so slightly and take
Speaker 4: on this week's spicy DM?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 7: Please?
Speaker 4: All right? So we as always put a call out
Speaker 4: on Instagram if you're not following us, it's at She's
Speaker 4: on the money aus and we shared this DM that
Speaker 4: we received. Hey, she's on the money. I have a
Speaker 4: DM for you. My sister, who works in retail, has
Speaker 4: just disclose to me that she makes most of her
Speaker 4: money on OnlyFans. I want to straight up say that
Speaker 4: I have no problem whatsoever with women making their way
Speaker 4: through the world. However they choose and good on her
Speaker 4: for making an income through OnlyFans, and I do truly
Speaker 4: feel this, but she is also my sister, and I
Speaker 4: feel worried for her long term future and well being
Speaker 4: in doing this. She has said that she's dropped her
Speaker 4: hours at her retail job as she makes more money
Speaker 4: on OnlyFans, but I don't think that she should be
Speaker 4: relying on this as her primary form of income. Am
Speaker 4: I a bad feminist for feeling concerned for her and
Speaker 4: not being one hundred percent supportive? Can I voice my
Speaker 4: concern to her? There's so many facets.
Speaker 7: So many I was worried.
Speaker 5: Actually, I was really worried when I first started hearing
Speaker 5: this because I was like, you know how I feel
Speaker 5: about only fans. I think it's absolutely fine for anyone
Speaker 5: to do anything in any way they want. If all
Speaker 5: parties are consenting, everyone's happy. Who actually cares?
Speaker 7: You know what I mean?
Speaker 5: Lately, we use our ears as an audio producer, we
Speaker 5: use our mouths as announcers like we use.
Speaker 7: I don't really get it. I don't really get it.
Speaker 5: And it's been kind of like explained me in many
Speaker 5: different ways, but I still don't get why the only
Speaker 5: fans is an issue at all.
Speaker 7: So I was kind of worried there for a second.
Speaker 5: But I'm happy to see that she's not coming from it,
Speaker 5: as you know, in any kind of bad way. But
Speaker 5: I mean, what is bad, you know, what's the definition
Speaker 5: of anything. But I think it's fair enough. It's valid
Speaker 5: to think like if this is a I suppose like
Speaker 5: a career that is not really maybe going to take
Speaker 5: her into her like you know, late years in life,
Speaker 5: or maybe she's going to stop this eventually, and you
Speaker 5: kind of just want her to focus on something that
Speaker 5: will be a little bit more like long lasting, or
Speaker 5: something she can fall back on just in case it
Speaker 5: stops working out. That's a different story. And I really
Speaker 5: that is a really tough one, Like how do you
Speaker 5: even broach that subject? You know, that sounds yeah, like
Speaker 5: you're against what she's doing.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's tough because it sounds like it's coming from
Speaker 4: a good place. And as someone who has a corporate background,
Speaker 4: I understand that, you know, digital footprint is something that's
Speaker 4: very weird real and we all have to be conscious
Speaker 4: of what we put on the Internet and the potential
Speaker 4: implications for that. Do I personally believe that people should
Speaker 4: be able to do whatever they want and that should
Speaker 4: have no bearing on their career opportunities or how they
Speaker 4: perceive publicly. Absolutely, but unfortunately that isn't the world that
Speaker 4: we live in currently. And I guess I understand wanting
Speaker 4: to make sure that she's aware that the choices that
Speaker 4: she makes may have those implications. For example, industries like teaching,
Speaker 4: I could see it potentially being something that could become
Speaker 4: an issue, you know, because they have very strict rules around,
Speaker 4: you know, what people can and can't do. Again, not
Speaker 4: that I agree that that should be the case, but
Speaker 4: I also do very much think you know, she's her
Speaker 4: own human and she deserves her own autonomy, and if
Speaker 4: it's something that she's happy and she's safe and she's
Speaker 4: making money, as you were saying back, I think like
Speaker 4: that is the most important thing. As for bringing it up,
Speaker 4: it's a really tough conversation because I don't even now
Speaker 4: us having this conversation. I'm struggling to convey how I
Speaker 4: feel in a way that acknowledges what I feel to
Speaker 4: be all of the relevant and important things, because part
Speaker 4: of them say like, yeah, girl, get your bag, do
Speaker 4: what you do. Proud and happy for you, but the
Speaker 4: other part of me wants to say, hey, but there
Speaker 4: are these other things to consider. There are you know,
Speaker 4: The reality is there may be implications. You know. I
Speaker 4: want you to be aware of that too, because I
Speaker 4: don't want that to stop you from getting your dream
Speaker 4: job down the track. And I don't know how you
Speaker 4: could approach that. And there's I don't have a sister,
Speaker 4: but I imagine that's a very challenging bond to navigate
Speaker 4: in and of itself as well. I don't really know
Speaker 4: what the answer is, but Hannah, you look like you
Speaker 4: definitely have something to say.
Speaker 1: I find this really it's such a great question. It
Speaker 1: is a bit spicy, and it is a bit complicated,
Speaker 1: But I honestly feel that the fact that we're all
Speaker 1: a bit like clearly like ooh, nervous to talk about
Speaker 1: it speaks to what the real problem is. And the
Speaker 1: problem is an only fans. The problem is social expectation
Speaker 1: and judgment, right, And so the problem is not and
Speaker 1: I think I would say to this person, your concern
Speaker 1: and your like sort of insecure feelings around this aren't
Speaker 1: actually steeped in a regressive or conservative view that you hold.
Speaker 1: They're steeped in the fact that you worry how other
Speaker 1: people will perceive your sister, and so you're taking on
Speaker 1: the mental load of that concern of judgment that society
Speaker 1: might hold for her and what that means for her.
Speaker 1: That's coming from a good place, But I think it's
Speaker 1: about considering how you then approach that conversation because like
Speaker 1: as feminists, I say, absolutely get it. What I would
Speaker 1: say the conversation would be from my perspective is not saying,
Speaker 1: should you be doing OnlyFans no slay. The conversation should be, hey,
Speaker 1: what is your long term savings plan and what is
Speaker 1: your protective layer here in case you were to struggle
Speaker 1: to find work afterwards, because we know how society is.
Speaker 1: I think it's about approaching it from the judgment perspective
Speaker 1: and saying, I'm with you, but financially security wise, what
Speaker 1: is your plan? Because I want to protect you from
Speaker 1: what other people might say and think if you want
Speaker 1: to go into X Y Z industry, because I would
Speaker 1: say that to myself and my sister, like do you
Speaker 1: have you know, financial advice? Do you have an accountant?
Speaker 1: Do you need help with your actual financial management to
Speaker 1: make you feel secure in your progressive awesome choices, because
Speaker 1: I would say it is super impressive that you have
Speaker 1: the like fortitude to go and do that and to
Speaker 1: make money from it, and to be super impressive. But
Speaker 1: think about it this way. Politicians for a long time
Speaker 1: received a guaranteed pension after retirement because there was a belief,
Speaker 1: and that belief was quite true that after someone retired
Speaker 1: from politics they would struggle to find a job because
Speaker 1: of things they'd said and done in their role that
Speaker 1: was very public. It's kind of the same thing. There
Speaker 1: is a risk associated and it's how you protect someone
Speaker 1: from that risk. So it's not problematic to worry because
Speaker 1: you're worrying about you want to protect your sister from
Speaker 1: society or not judging her. And so as long as
Speaker 1: you've asked yourself those questions about where your worry is
Speaker 1: coming from, and as long as that's not judgment from you,
Speaker 1: just work out what is your worry and articulate that
Speaker 1: in a protective and considered way. I think, because she's
Speaker 1: doing well and as long as she can continue to
Speaker 1: do well and prepare for the future, so be it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you've put it really eloquently there. I completely agree.
Speaker 4: And the other thing that I would maybe suggest bringing
Speaker 4: up or asking her about is what she's doing with
Speaker 4: her money right now, because she said that she's obviously
Speaker 4: earning more than she was in her retail wage. And
Speaker 4: we've had a few Only Fans creators on the podcast
Speaker 4: before for Money Diaries, and if you haven't listened to
Speaker 4: those episodes, you can find them by searching up She's
Speaker 4: on the Money Only Fans. There's been some great ones,
Speaker 4: but something that we've heard when talking to people is
Speaker 4: that sometimes they go from earning not a lot they're
Speaker 4: just earning an ordinary, solid wage, to earning in some cases,
Speaker 4: crazy amounts of money that you could only dream of.
Speaker 4: And when people it's kind of like winning the lottery,
Speaker 4: like you're not always prepared or equipped for that situation,
Speaker 4: and people historically have often gone, oh my god, I
Speaker 4: have all this money that I didn't have before, and
Speaker 4: they've blown it. Whereas it's a really good time for
Speaker 4: her now, like you were saying, Hannah, to be thinking
Speaker 4: about her future. Should she be investing, should she be
Speaker 4: putting money aside in savings, How is she putting the
Speaker 4: extra money that she has now to work to support
Speaker 4: her if she can't find employment or even if she
Speaker 4: decides to keep doing only vans like whatever her future
Speaker 4: looks like, I think not taking her newfound success and
Speaker 4: letting that get away from her, because I think too
Speaker 4: many times we've seen people who have had an opportunity
Speaker 4: and not handled their money in perhaps the best way.
Speaker 4: They've not had the right advisors or support around them,
Speaker 4: and that has meant that that opportunity or that influx
Speaker 4: of cash has kind of been rendered redundant. And we
Speaker 4: don't want to see that happened to her either.
Speaker 7: Absolutely, what do the community have to say?
Speaker 4: Let me tell you. So we started off by asking
Speaker 4: have you ever been concerned by your friend or family
Speaker 4: member's career choice? Fifty nine percent of people said yes,
Speaker 4: which shocked me, and forty one percent of people said no.
Speaker 4: Then we said, if yes, did you voice this concern
Speaker 4: to them? Fifty eight percent of people said no, it's
Speaker 4: not my place to comment on it. Fifteen percent of
Speaker 4: people said yes and it didn't go well, and twenty
Speaker 4: seven percent of people said yes and we had a
Speaker 4: good chat about it. So an overwhelming majority of people
Speaker 4: were concerned for something that someone they loved was doing,
Speaker 4: but didn't bring it up to that Sure, Okay, which
Speaker 4: is crazy. And then we said tell us your two cents,
Speaker 4: And it was a really varied mix of responses, and
Speaker 4: I think people coming from kind of the different perspectives
Speaker 4: that we've discussed here. One person said, you're right to
Speaker 4: be concerned. Your sister needs to have a backup plan
Speaker 4: for if her only fans income dries up. Somebody else said,
Speaker 4: it's very hard to earn good or consistent income from
Speaker 4: something like only fans. Is she putting all of her
Speaker 4: eggs in one basket? But somebody else said, make the
Speaker 4: money while she can, and she can always go back
Speaker 4: to retail whenever she wants. Somebody said, don't worry about
Speaker 4: other people's money and how they make it. And I
Speaker 4: wanted to ask you guys about this because it's a
Speaker 4: bit of a catch twenty two, right. It's the feeling
Speaker 4: concerned for the people that we love and wanting the
Speaker 4: best for them.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: The sister obviously wants to just make sure that her
Speaker 4: sister is doing well. Our listeners who have responded to
Speaker 4: the pole have obviously seen some kind of red flag
Speaker 4: in the choices that their friends or family are making.
Speaker 4: But if you see something that's wrong and you don't
Speaker 4: voice your concern. Is that doing the right thing because
Speaker 4: it's not your place to have an opinion on what
Speaker 4: somebody else is doing. Or is it a little bit
Speaker 4: of a disservice to the person you love by not
Speaker 4: making sure or helping them to chat about something.
Speaker 1: I think that when we talk about money, it's one
Speaker 1: of the biggest taboo subjects, right trust. So my thing is,
Speaker 1: it's exactly what you were just saying. It's this really
Speaker 1: kind of double standard, hypocritical thing. We're saying, Oh, we
Speaker 1: shouldn't talk about it, but we're actually what of the
Speaker 1: point of she using the money is to empower women
Speaker 1: by having conversations that traditionally we weren't allowed to able
Speaker 1: or feeling comfortable to have. What I would say the
Speaker 1: difference is here, just from my consideration, then, is the
Speaker 1: reason people don't approach the conversations because they think there's
Speaker 1: judgment and they don't want to hurt the relationship. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that's why I think it comes back to the how.
Speaker 1: I think it comes back to sitting with yourself and saying,
Speaker 1: where is my concern coming from? And is that fair
Speaker 1: and justified concern? And how can I approach this in
Speaker 1: the way that actually expresses the concern without conveying judgment. Yes,
Speaker 1: because we shouldn't be silent on money because it's money.
Speaker 1: That's just going back to that archaic way of thinking
Speaker 1: that prevents women from earning more, asking for more pay,
Speaker 1: asking for better conditions and more flexible working arrangements. We
Speaker 1: need to converse. It's about how is it in a
Speaker 1: respectful and comfortable, secure way.
Speaker 5: Yes, Yes, I completely agree with that. I was going
Speaker 5: to say something very similar, but not as well articulated.
Speaker 3: For sure.
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's going to be.
Speaker 7: Oh, pressures on, pressures on.
Speaker 5: No, I was basically just going to say, like, you know,
Speaker 5: as well as you said, Hannah, like trying to figure
Speaker 5: out where the concern comes from. I think that if
Speaker 5: you are in a position where you're kind of concerned
Speaker 5: about someone's career choice or what they're doing, and you
Speaker 5: want to voice your opinion, really just figuring out what's
Speaker 5: the root of your concern, because if it's like I
Speaker 5: don't like only fans, then that's you know, you're going
Speaker 5: to have to start breaking down your own like way
Speaker 5: of thinking and being like, where does that come from?
Speaker 5: Is that my train of thought? Or is that society's
Speaker 5: train of thought and where like is that even based
Speaker 5: in anything like probably actually not. But if it's actually,
Speaker 5: like you know, I don't know, let's say your partner
Speaker 5: as a firefighter and you're scared because that's actually really
Speaker 5: really dangerous kind of career, you know, just trying to
Speaker 5: figure out the actual root of your own thinking and
Speaker 5: asking why why why until you break it all the
Speaker 5: way down and if you still have solid reason to
Speaker 5: be concerned, then yes, exactly, like kind of like approaching
Speaker 5: it in a way that's not judgmental, in a way
Speaker 5: that's kind of like objective, in kind, compassionate and yeah,
Speaker 5: so that's sorry, is the longest way to answer your question.
Speaker 4: No, I agree, And I think a really interesting point
Speaker 4: that you've both brought up, and something that I would
Speaker 4: like to just say very clearly is I think that
Speaker 4: there is something very positive in critically looking at your
Speaker 4: thought patterns and processes. And even if you come to
Speaker 4: realize that something you are thinking or feeling is a
Speaker 4: response to a societal standard that perhaps doesn't sit well
Speaker 4: with your values, we need to remember that a lot
Speaker 4: of things are so ingrained in us because it's what
Speaker 4: we've seen and watched and learned from a really young age,
Speaker 4: and to undo that train of thinking does take conscious effort.
Speaker 4: And so even if your knee jerk response to this
Speaker 4: as a listener was you know, well, she shouldn't be
Speaker 4: doing only fans, maybe that was your immediate response, and
Speaker 4: upon reflection, if you go, why was I thinking that?
Speaker 4: Was it coming from a place of concern for her future?
Speaker 4: Was it coming from a place of maybe I'm not
Speaker 4: as positive of women in the sex industry? Looking at
Speaker 4: why and how that is? I think, don't feel like
Speaker 4: you're a bad person if you necessarily are repeating thought
Speaker 4: patterns that you have been exposed to, because I think
Speaker 4: we can all identify as feminists but still have things
Speaker 4: that we need to work on and understand within ourselves.
Speaker 4: It is actually speaking from my personal experience, like it
Speaker 4: takes some work to undo those intrinsic thoughts and those
Speaker 4: patterns and feelings. And that is something that is active,
Speaker 4: and that comes from those reflections that you have in
Speaker 4: your thoughts and your feelings and your responses, and sometimes
Speaker 4: you don't even realize that they're there until you experience
Speaker 4: something that brings it up and prompts that response from you.
Speaker 4: And so I just want to say, if that is
Speaker 4: the case, you don't feel like that makes you inherently
Speaker 4: a bad person, Like reflection is a good thing. That's
Speaker 4: what makes us grow. Totally, because I don't want to villainize.
Speaker 4: I guess the idea of something that maybe you didn't
Speaker 4: know that was there, If that makes any sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. It really comes back to like a person's
Speaker 1: intention versus their impact, because your intention could be to
Speaker 1: have like a conversation that shows you care. But if
Speaker 1: you haven't really thought about how you're going to do
Speaker 1: that and what's at the root of your thoughts, your
Speaker 1: impact is going to actually have a gap between intention
Speaker 1: and impact. And you can't always control and it's not
Speaker 1: your job to control your impact. But if someone comes
Speaker 1: back to you and says it hurt you, it hurt them,
Speaker 1: or it made them uncomfortable, that really is showing that gap.
Speaker 1: So it's about sitting with it and considering it before
Speaker 1: you actually land.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, and as you said, having it in a
Speaker 4: kind and considered way. And that seems to be really
Speaker 4: reflective of the things that some people are saying. It
Speaker 4: falls into t camp. Some people are expressing concern, Some
Speaker 4: people are saying. It sounds like the sister does have
Speaker 4: a problem with only fans, and you know, we only
Speaker 4: have the information that was provided to us. But I
Speaker 4: think the overarching outcome here and from a lot of
Speaker 4: our listeners is as long as she's making considered choices
Speaker 4: and is aware of the broader impacts, you know, let
Speaker 4: her do what she wants, but it's not a bad
Speaker 4: thing for her sister and our listener to have that conversation,
Speaker 4: as long as it's done in a kind and compassionate way.
Speaker 4: Absolutely amazing. Any last thoughts from anyone before we wrap up.
Speaker 4: I think I'm really satisfied with that. That was a
Speaker 4: really good one. Hannah. You are so articulate and wonderful.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your thoughts.
Speaker 4: You are the best, absolutely wonderful. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I love you both. Thank you for having me. It's
Speaker 1: been a privilege.
Speaker 4: Come back anytime. And if people want to hear more
Speaker 4: from yourself you said earlier, you're on the podcast, You're
Speaker 4: on Instagram, there's another book on the way, there's one
Speaker 4: already out which is wonderful. Anywhere else that people should
Speaker 4: be looking to find you.
Speaker 1: Those are the places I'm on TikTok and I have
Speaker 1: a personal Instagram as well, but they're all linked to
Speaker 1: each other, so if you find one, you pretty much
Speaker 1: find it all. So thank you again.
Speaker 4: You're in the ecosystem, which is great, amazing. Well, thank
Speaker 4: you so much for joining us everybody. We had a
Speaker 4: wonderful time as always, and Victoria will see you bright
Speaker 4: early on Monday for a money diary. Have a good weekend.
Speaker 8: Bye guys.
Speaker 1: Bye.
Speaker 8: The advice shared on She's on the Money is general
Speaker 8: in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's
Speaker 8: on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should
Speaker 8: not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.
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Speaker 8: Product, read the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice.
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