WEBVTT - The census backlash and backflip 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:04.480 Already and this is the DAILYA, this is the Dailias. 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:17.800 Oh now it makes sense. Hello, and welcome to the Dahlias. 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:19.480 I'm emma, i'm zara. 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:23.560 The federal government has backflipped on its decision not to 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:27.320 include questions about sexual orientation in the next census. 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:29.720 It follows mounting pressure from. 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:33.320 LGBTQ plus advocates and several government MPs. 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:35.880 In today's deep dive, we're going to take you through 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:40.440 the census controversy, the backlash, and most recently the backflip. 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:42.960 But first, m what's making headlines today. 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:50.040 The bodies of six Israeli hostages taken by Hamas on 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:54.520 October seven have been recovered in Gaza. According to Israeli officials, 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:56.760 defense forces were led to the bodies of three men 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:00.400 and three women following an operation lasting several hours on 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:04.200 Saturday afternoon. One of the hostages, kidnapped Baijamas from the 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:07.440 Nova Music festival in southern Israel last year, was a 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:11.319 US citizen whose parents recently spoke at the Democratic National 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:15.119 Convention in Chicago. It's not yet clear when and how 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:18.840 the hostages were killed. It comes amid continued efforts to 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:21.559 negotiate a hostage release and cease fire deal. 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:27.760 Senior European Union officials have refused to recognize the legitimacy 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:32.760 of Nicholas Maduro as Venezuela's leader. Protests and political tensions 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:36.440 have continued in Venezuela since claims of election interference After 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:40.479 its recent vote. The Venezuelan government has insisted Maduro won 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:45.640 the election. However, opposing candidate Edmundo Gonzalez declared victory after 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:48.920 an independent vote count. The Supreme Court has been accused 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:52.080 of corruption after it ruled in favour of Meduro's victory. 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:55.840 During a meeting of EU officials, the union's vice president said, 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:59.520 quote clearly Madua cannot be recognized as a legitimate winner 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:03.040 of this presidentidential election, that the situation in Venezuela was 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:04.000 quote critical. 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:09.400 X has been banned in Brazil after a Supreme Court 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:13.560 decision to suspend the platform. The country's top court ordered 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:17.359 Telco's to block access to the popular platform formerly known 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:21.160 as Twitter, over concern around right wing content and misinformation. 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:26.200 It comes after Elon Musk's refusal to comply with local laws. 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:29.400 Several months of negotiations ended in the mass outage when 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:32.040 Musk failed to meet a deadline to put forward a 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:35.400 new legal representative for x in the region. Brazil has 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:39.240 the fifth largest digital population in the world. Musk has 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:43.880 condemned the suspension order as quote illegal political censorship by 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:47.560 what he called an evil dictator cosplaying as a judge. 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:53.600 In today's good news, the FBI has returned stolen artifacts, 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:58.239 including sacred human skulls, back to Vanuatu. The sacred artifacts 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:02.000 were returned through the US Embassy in Canberra. An FBI 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:05.120 representative in the pacifics said, quote, there's no better feeling 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:12.680 than returning these artifacts to their rightful owners. We are 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:16.000 still a couple of years away from the next census, 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:18.360 and I forgive you if you don't know when that is, 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:20.360 because I can't say that. I think about when the 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:23.919 next census is very often, but it's in twenty twenty six. 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:28.040 And last week it really dominated the headlines. Emma, why 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:28.840 was that the case? 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:29.720 That is right? 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:33.120 The headlines have related to whether or not the twenty 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:38.840 twenty six census would include questions about sexual orientation, gender identity, 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:41.480 and variations in sex characteristics. 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.080 It felt like there were new updates. 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:47.040 And twists and turns rolling in by the day on 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:51.080 this one culminating in a backflip from the government. 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:53.560 But we're going to make sense of all of it 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:54.400 for you today. 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:57.160 Yeah, well, I think that a good starting point is 0:03:57.200 --> 0:03:59.640 to just explain what we're talking about when we were 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:01.160 referred to the censors. 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:03.119 So let's start there. What's the census. 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:04.320 So every five. 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:08.160 Years, the Australian Bureau of Statistics that's the ABS conducts 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.880 a national survey known as the Census. It captures details 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:16.520 and trends about Australia's population, so things like health, age, housing, 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:20.960 cultural background and religion. Now, the ABS says that governments 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:24.520 use that data from the Census to make important decisions, 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.880 but it goes even further than that. Census data really 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:31.400 provides a snapshot of life in Australia at a certain 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.239 moment in time, and those findings are used to inform 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:38.080 all sorts of decision making, so they're used across community groups, 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:41.720 not for profit organizations, businesses, and the data is also 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:46.560 interpreted by researchers and academics to support various studies into 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:47.719 different research fields. 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:49.640 So census data. 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:52.240 Provides information to inform all of that, but it also 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:55.640 provides a really important comparison tool. So you know what 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:59.280 changes between each census, What do we learn about how 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:01.039 Australia is, changes. 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:03.680 From demographics, changes all of those sorts of things. 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:06.200 But and this is really at the heart of what 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:10.720 we're talking about today, the census has never included questions 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:15.120 or has never captured data on sexual orientation or gender identity. 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:18.880 When this story started to dominate headlines, I was a 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.839 bit confused because I remember the last census was in 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:23.960 twenty twenty one. It was in the throes of a 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:27.600 very dark lockdowne and I remember there being this similar 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:31.239 concern at the time about a lack of LGBTQ plus 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:36.560 representation in that sensus. What happened from all of those 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.840 conversations happening back in twenty twenty one to it now 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:41.279 being in the headlines again. 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.760 Exactly so, like previous surveys, the twenty twenty one Census 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:49.360 didn't include questions about sexual orientation, gender identity, or variations 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:53.440 in sex characteristics so for example, intersex people. And in 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:57.480 August twenty twenty three, two years later, the ABS issued 0:05:57.520 --> 0:05:59.040 a statement of regret. 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:03.159 What's that presumably quite literally, just means they regret something. 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:05.760 Yeah, Well, as you kind of touched on there were 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:10.400 numerous complaints about the lack of LGBTQ plus representation in 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:13.560 the questions of the twenty twenty one survey. So following 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:17.200 those complaints, the ABS said, it recognizes that some members 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:22.000 of the lgbtiq plus community experienced hurt, stress, anguish, and 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.480 other negative reactions to some census questions. 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:28.520 Okay, so that was in twenty twenty three, that statement 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:32.240 of regret by the ABS. What happened after that, Like, 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:35.000 was there any process to I guess remedy If you 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:38.000 regret something or issue a statement of regret, one would 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:42.039 presume you then intend to remedy it moving forward. What 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:43.359 did that process look like? 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:47.520 Well, that process certainly looked as though a kind of 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:52.560 remedy was underway. Towards addressing those concerns, the ABS launched 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:57.279 an lgbtiq plus Expert Advisory Committee for the twenty twenty 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:01.120 six Census to quote provide guidance an input into the 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:04.640 census topic, review and framing of census questions and the 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:08.640 way that census data is processed and disseminated. By the 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:11.320 end of twenty twenty three, the ABS ended up consulting 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:15.040 with more than one thousand people and organizations on future 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.520 census questions from that. The ABS also said it was 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:22.680 considering a question about sexual orientation due to a quote 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:25.480 lack of a reliable evidence base. It also said it 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:29.000 was considering adding sex recorded at birth as a question 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.720 to the twenty twenty six census and updating response categories 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:34.920 to quote improve data quality. 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:38.120 You mentioned there this question of sex recorded at birth. 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:40.440 Can you just elaborate a bit on why that was 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:42.720 an important thing to have captured, or at least why 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:45.120 the advice was that might be important to capture. 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:49.520 Yes, so separate questions about sex assigned at birth and 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:53.520 gender would give us a specific data set relating to 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:57.679 transgender people and the number of transgender people in Australia. 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:01.080 So the twenty twenty one census did include dude one 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:06.160 question about sex that had three gender options male, female, 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:08.720 or non binary sex, and that was the first time 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:11.800 a non binary option was included in the census. The 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:14.840 ABS said that that was to allow respondents to participate 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:18.040 in the census when the male and female sex categories 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:21.400 might not accurately describe their sex, but that new category 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:25.640 was not intended or designed to collect data on gender, 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:29.520 so therefore the number of people who reported a sex 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:32.520 of non binary on the twenty twenty one census. Quote 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.240 could not be used as a measure of gender diversity, 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.520 non binary, gender, or transgender communities. 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:39.280 Now. 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:43.200 According to the ABS, sex is defined as being based 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:47.600 upon a person's sex characteristics, such as their chromosomes, hormones, 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:51.120 and reproductive organs. A person's gender is about social and 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:55.560 cultural differences in identity, expression, and experience as a man, woman, 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:58.920 or non binary person. As gender is not currently listed 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.720 as a topic on the Sense and Statistics Regulation, the 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:04.560 ABS said it did not ask this question on the 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:05.840 twenty twenty one census. 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:08.120 Okay, so let's just recap where we're at. 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:09.360 Yeah, because I feel like. 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:11.679 You know, every single one of these is a huge 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:14.480 point to dive into. But essentially what happened was the 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:16.679 last time that there was a census was in twenty 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:19.679 twenty one. In that census, there were a number of 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:24.000 things that different groups felt were not included and therefore 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:28.160 they did not feel represented members of the LGBTQ plus community. 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:32.080 Following that survey, the ABS did issue a statement of 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:34.959 regret and said that they were embarking on a journey 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:38.480 in which I guess address these concerns, and one of 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:40.600 them was about the fact that the true number of 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:44.400 transgender people in this country was not being adequately or 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:48.000 accurately represented in the census. Okay, so the ABS said 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.840 it was considering adding a sex recorded, a birth question, 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:55.120 a sexual orientation question. Was there anything else that you 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:57.440 know leading up to the next census we heard from 0:09:57.480 --> 0:09:58.920 the ABS they were really looking. 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:02.080 At There was a third proposal, and this will become 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:05.200 important when we talk about the government's latest position on 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:08.760 the twenty twenty six sensus. The ABS noted a significant 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:12.480 data gap on those with variations of sex characteristics, like 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:15.720 intersex people. It said understanding the number of people with 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:19.840 differences to their innate, genetic, hormonal, or physical sex characteristics 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:24.559 can help plan resources to support individuals and their families. 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:26.960 The ABS said in a statement, the small size of 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.160 this population group means that sample surveys are unable to 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:33.040 produce both national and lower level estimates. 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:35.200 And I mean, I think this really goes to the 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:39.360 heart of why so many members of the LGBTQ plus 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:42.280 community have felt so strongly about this story. You know, 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:45.120 so often these sorts of conversations get dragged into kind 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:48.480 of culture war territory. But all this is meant to 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:53.439 be doing is capturing the reality of what this country 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:56.840 looks like and where you know, resourcing should go, and 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:00.000 kind of just getting a true representation of the demographic 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:02.600 so that when those conversations happen, there is actually an 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:05.720 evidence bace that you know, people can point to and say, 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:07.480 these are the numbers we're talking about. 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:11.040 Yeah, it's surprising to me this kind of bias that 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:14.480 has been attached to the idea of collecting data. I 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:18.280 think the argument about why the questions would be included 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:23.240 is about providing a picture of modern Australia. 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:24.160 A snapshot exactly where we're at. 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:27.040 Okay, And so we've spoken a lot about the ABS 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:29.720 and the work that they've been doing. Why has this 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:33.040 conversation now come up in the news recently? 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:38.000 So after the ABS conducted that analysis and consultation that 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:41.240 we've gone through. The Labor Party said last year that 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:44.199 it was committed to making sure quote the twenty twenty 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:48.920 sixth Census gathers relevant data on LGBTIQ plus Australians. So 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:52.320 we've got that on the record from the government last year. 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.200 But then on Monday a week ago, it's said it 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:59.199 would not be including those abs updates that were recommended 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:02.559 on sexual or orientation and gender in the next survey. 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:06.720 Assistant Employment Minister Andrew Lee told TDA it is the 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:09.480 decision of the government that there will quote be no 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:12.560 change to the topics in the next census which will 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:14.359 be held in twenty twenty six. 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:20.439 Okay, and that triggered just immediate and quite visceral backlash 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.840 from the Australian community. Can you walk us through the 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:27.079 response that followed from the government coming out with this position. 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:30.240 Yeah, as you say, the fallout was pretty widespread and immediate. 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.960 National advocacy group Equality Australia said the government had quote 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:36.480 betrayed lgbtiq plus people around. 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.160 Australia. CEO and A Brown said the. 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:42.720 Community was again going to be quote rendered invisible in 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:45.640 twenty twenty six because the census wasn't going to ask 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:50.200 appropriate questions about their lives, and the CEO of lgbtiq 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:53.680 plus Health Australia, Niki Bath, said that there would still 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:58.160 be significant data gaps needed to address the pervasive health 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.000 and well being disparities in the community. 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:04.280 So very strong response there from the community, but there 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:08.320 was also a very strong response from inside the government, 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:10.040 and I mean, I think it should be said that 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:11.400 it's fairly rare. 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:12.640 For members of the government. 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.560 We know that the Labor Party has rules about crossing 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:17.000 the floor and all of these sorts of things, and 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:19.720 this wasn't a piece of legislation, but still it was 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:22.600 quite remarkable to see a number of members come out 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.520 and say we disagree with the government's position. Can you 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:27.920 talk me through some of the political fallout. 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:31.199 Yeah, So we saw a group of six Labor MPs 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.520 come forward in the end criticizing their party over the decision. 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:37.160 As you say, not a piece of legislation, but still 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:41.160 rare to see so many people within Labor criticizing a 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:45.960 Labor decision. That movement was led by Labor MP Josh Burns. 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.840 He told TDA that the community deserves to be counted. 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:52.240 He said the data collected in the census helps with 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.920 government decision making and the delivery of services, and therefore 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:58.520 I think we should reconsider the questions we put forward 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:02.640 in the twenty twenty sixth sense. Some Coalition MPs also 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:06.840 supported adding the questions, but Opposition leader Peter Dutton said 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.560 that he felt pretty happy with the existing survey. And 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:14.160 he questioned what he called a woke agenda. The Greens 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:17.040 accused the government of failing to do the bare minimum 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:20.120 in data collection when it comes to the census. Green's 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:24.400 lgbtiq plus spokesperson Stephen Bates said the lack of data 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:29.120 on lgbtiq plus Australians was stalling necessary reforms to healthcare 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:34.240 and education. By Friday morning, Australia's Sex Discrimination Commissioner had 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:37.760 also weighed in. So Doctor Anna Cody, who is the Commissioner, 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:41.640 wrote a letter to the Assistant Minister for Employment Andrew Lee, 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:45.280 talking about the sort of implications of the decision for 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:48.880 the health, wellbeing and general equality of the community of 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:53.160 LGBTQ plus Australians as well as their families. She pointed 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:56.840 to the kind of significant health disparities faced by the 0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:02.560 lgbtiq plus community compared to hetero and cisgender Australians and 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:04.880 emphasized the message that we'd heard from a lot of 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:09.240 other groups just about the importance of accurate population data 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:13.400 to inform decisions on you know, health and mental health services. 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:16.080 She said it was a matter of practical, effective policy. 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.560 So you've painted a picture of just significant pressure mounting 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.280 on the government kind of from every angle, both within 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:26.920 their own party, you know, opposition, Greens, people outside the system. 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:28.680 How did the government respond? 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:31.680 So? Anthony Albanezi, the Prime Minister, did. 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:35.000 An interview with ABC Radio on Friday morning where he 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:38.920 said there will be a question about sexual preference in 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:43.080 the next census, depending on the findings of ABS testing. 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:45.840 So to unpack that, he said the government had been 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:48.600 in discussions with the ABS and that they were going 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.760 to test for a new question. He said that would 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:56.960 be quote one question about sexuality, sexual preference. Albanezy said 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:00.320 that the ABS will be testing making sure quote that 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:02.960 people will have the option of not answering it or 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:05.520 if they prefer not to answer, And he said that 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.720 as long as the testing quote goes okay and a 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:11.200 question can be developed in a way that's sensitive and 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:14.720 that gets the information that is required, the ABS will 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:18.880 be testing that with a draft question. Now, I do 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:22.520 want to point out that Albaneze's comments only related to 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:27.560 a question about sexual orientation. He did not imply that 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:30.800 there will be any kind of testing on questions to 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:35.320 do with gender identity or variations in sex characteristics, which 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.600 were the proposals suggested by the ABS after that statement 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:39.880 of regret in twenty twenty three. 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:43.040 Okay, so the government essentially backflipped. They came out with 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:45.760 a position, it was deeply unpopular and they've now kind 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.120 of walked it back. Was there any explanation given? 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:53.520 Albaneze pretty much downplayed it. He said that the government 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.400 thinks the census has been pretty effective in the past. 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:00.680 He noted what he thought about the censors being the 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:05.360 incorrect vehicle to engage with the community across various issues, 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:07.800 and he downplayed the census, saying that it's not the 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:10.280 be all and end all. He also noted other data 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:13.119 collection strategies that are available to us now, including on 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:17.480 our phones and through social media, so that arguably felt 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.679 like a little bit of a distraction. He did defend 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:25.440 Labour's track record on anti discrimination legislation, though he noted 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:28.679 the survey isn't for two years, and I think a 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.359 good point that was made is that there is an 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:34.440 election to get through next year. The survey comes the 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.720 year after that, so a lot could change in the 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:40.800 makeup of the government between now and then. But I 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:43.159 do want to note there was some discussion around the 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:49.040 government not including questions representing LGBTQ plus Australia in the 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:54.640 next census to avoid discrimination and harmful conversations. But kind 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:58.119 of ironically you could say that is where the conversation 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.760 ended up going. The sexist Crimination Commissioner pointed out that 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:06.199 failing to address those concerns identified by the ABS and 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:09.399 BUY advocacy groups after the twenty twenty one survey risked 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:13.600 doing exactly that. Commissioner Cody said she was concerned in 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:17.480 the face of rising negative retrick that it could strengthen 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:21.119 the voices of discrimination and division. That quote seek to 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:25.280 disrupt the nation's social cohesion. I thought this was a 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.680 really strong quote from the Commissioner to finish on. While 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.320 we must seek to minimize harm, the answer cannot be 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:35.920 to do nothing. LGBTIQA plus Australians and their rights must 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:40.160 be protected and supported, as must the rights of all Australians. 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.560 M a really interesting deep dive, and I know that 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:45.280 a lot of people would have seen these headlines but 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:46.800 perhaps not understood. 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:47.200 All of that context. 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:49.399 So thank you for explaining that and thank you for 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:52.240 joining us for another day on the Daily ODS. 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:53.800 If you learned something from this. 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:57.359 Episode, feel free to leave a covent on Spotify or 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:00.240 wherever you're listening. If you're watching us on YouTube, we 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:02.520 love to know what you're thinking and feeling about the 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:05.520 topics that we cover here at TDA. We'll be back 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:11.760 again tomorrow, but until then, have a fantastic Monday. My 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:14.760 name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bungelung 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:19.159 Calcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges that 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:21.720 this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadighl 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:24.879 people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres s 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:27.760 right island and nations. We pay our respects to the 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.560 first peoples of these countries, both past and present,