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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, kids swear usually because they want a reaction. They'll

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Speaker 2: do it for the shock, they'll do it for the blob,

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Speaker 2: they'll do it for something. They'll also do it because

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Speaker 2: they want to fit in.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 3: Hello.

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Speaker 2: My name is doctor Justin Coulson. I am the husband

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Speaker 2: of Kylie Coulson, the mum to our six kids. Is

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Speaker 2: that the kind of intro that you like, Yes, star

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Speaker 2: of the show, missus Happy Families.

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Speaker 3: It's not about being the star of the show.

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Speaker 2: I says the star of the show. It's not about me. Hey,

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Speaker 2: Every Tuesday, we do our very best to answer your questions.

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Speaker 2: We love it when you send us emails podcasts at

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Speaker 2: Happy Families dot com dot au, and we especially love

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Speaker 2: it when you include an audio file with your question

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Speaker 2: because we love to hear your voices as well. Here's

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Speaker 2: one that's come through from Erin.

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Speaker 4: Hi, Justin and crly insights into how to deal with swearing.

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Speaker 4: We have three children and our eight year old son

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Speaker 4: when he gets angry, particularly if he's being redirected or

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Speaker 4: corrected by us. His first emotion is often anger, and

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Speaker 4: the swearing that we hear from him is in the extreme. Now,

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Speaker 4: in our family, we don't swear, and I wondered if

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Speaker 4: you had any ideas about how to stamp it out.

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Speaker 4: It just feels kind of a bit soul destroying to

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Speaker 4: hear your child speak to you in that way.

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Speaker 2: So, Kylie, the swearing issue, it's one that we've had

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Speaker 2: to deal with in our family more than once. And

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Speaker 2: when on swears, we're a bit like erin in that

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Speaker 2: we've got certain language standards for our home. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we don't even say what the kids don't even say

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Speaker 2: the words stupid or shut up or anything like that.

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Speaker 3: Right right, Well do you live then?

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Speaker 2: Okay, we discourage it.

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Speaker 3: We discourage it strongly. I may have actually been quite

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Speaker 3: a bad influence on our kids because we don't swear.

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Speaker 3: But crap does get a pretty good workout out of

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Speaker 3: my mouth.

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Speaker 2: Now saying some people would say that that is a

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Speaker 2: swear word, yeah, it probably is. I don't think that

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Speaker 2: it is, because I said it was pretty crap, all right.

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Speaker 2: So at twenty thirteen study that I found looking at

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Speaker 2: eight year olds showed that eight year olds in twenty

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Speaker 2: thirteen New fifty four to boo words starting with shut

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Speaker 2: up and stupid.

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Speaker 3: I thought there was only seven and progressing for the

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Speaker 3: fifty four fifty four. Where have I been living?

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Speaker 2: I think with shut up and stupid, but then progressing

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Speaker 2: from this way. Yes, so we're studying at a fairly

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Speaker 2: low based tine and then pushing it out from there.

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking of the deadly sins.

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Speaker 2: But as Erin has said, we're talking about an eight

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Speaker 2: year old here who's swearing using all of the big woods.

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Speaker 3: Well, I remember how it was dealt with when I

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Speaker 3: was little. Probably wouldn't do that today. Yeah, how was that?

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Speaker 2: You're going to say soap or something like that. Well,

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Speaker 2: I mean we had that on parental guidance last year

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 5: If they use their words incorrectly, if they're swearing or

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Speaker 5: using abusive or rude length, which then obvious consequence for

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Speaker 5: that would be we actually do put a bit of

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Speaker 5: soap on their toothbrush and brush their teeth.

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Speaker 3: Is so. I remember my little sister, she was about three,

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Speaker 3: and she was going to family daycare and she came

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Speaker 3: home with the F bomb. No big time, but the

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Speaker 3: crazy thing is kids at that age have no understanding.

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Speaker 2: Well, and I was going to say, it's a totally

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Speaker 2: different thing when you've got a three year old who's

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Speaker 2: saying something explicit third it versus an eight year old

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Speaker 2: who is losing it and using those words as weapons.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, an errand situation. It feels personal, It feels

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Speaker 3: like an attack.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. So. I mean, I've got a handful

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Speaker 2: of solutions that we can talk about, but I think

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Speaker 2: we've got to discuss just a couple of other things

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Speaker 2: before we get to solutions.

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Speaker 3: So one of the things I think we've come to

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Speaker 3: recognize as we've parented our children is that words have

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Speaker 3: a lot of power, and the bigger reaction we give

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Speaker 3: to those words, the more power we give to the

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Speaker 3: words that are being used.

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Speaker 2: I love that concept. Michael Hutchins, the late Michael Hutchins

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Speaker 2: from in Excess in the song Devil Inside use the

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Speaker 2: line words or weapons sharper than knives, and our eight

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Speaker 2: year olds when they're upset, they know that they comprehend

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Speaker 2: that it makes sense to them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think about even my experiences as a young child

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Speaker 3: and the times where I said the worst things, not

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Speaker 3: necessarily swear words, but mean things were the times where

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Speaker 3: I was hurting the most.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's when you yell at your parents, I

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Speaker 2: hate you.

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Speaker 3: You don't understand the worst parents in the world. So

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Speaker 3: the amazing thing about the power of words is it

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Speaker 3: actually gives us an insight into our children in a

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Speaker 3: way that they might not even be aware of if

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Speaker 3: we're attune to what's going on.

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Speaker 2: Right, So words have power, But words also, especially when

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Speaker 2: our children are melting down like that, high motions, low intelligence.

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Speaker 2: What we're getting is insight into this is something that

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Speaker 2: means a lot to my child. This is something that

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Speaker 2: creates either some tenderness or some frustration or some fear,

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Speaker 2: some sadness, some stress or challenge that they're not equipped

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Speaker 2: for yet.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and Aaron's acknowledged that. Obviously, when the situation calms down,

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Speaker 3: they're able to have some really beautiful connecting times. So

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Speaker 3: the challenge is how do we help them navigate the

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Speaker 3: space while they're stressed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So we'll talk about that shortly. There's a couple

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Speaker 2: of other things that I think we need to talk

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Speaker 2: about in terms of why the swearing is happening. So

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Speaker 2: when I look at research around this, kids swear usually

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Speaker 2: because they want a reaction. Okay, so when Erin is saying,

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Speaker 2: my husband says we need to do something about this,

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Speaker 2: eight year old goes got the reaction I wanted. So

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Speaker 2: they will do it for a reaction. They'll do it

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Speaker 2: for the shock, they'll do it for the blow up,

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Speaker 2: they'll do it for something. They'll also do it because

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Speaker 2: they want to fit in. And so Aeron's highlighted that

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Speaker 2: the skatepark is an environment where there's going to be

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Speaker 2: a whole lot of content that we wouldn't want to

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Speaker 2: hear in our own and home, but to fit in

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Speaker 2: these words coming out. I still think though that the

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Speaker 2: research probably best encapsulates Errand's issue. Sometimes kids just do

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Speaker 2: it out of anger, they do it because they're so

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Speaker 2: so mad. And other times we're dealing with things like

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Speaker 2: ADHD or autism or even Tourett's or some other kind

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Speaker 2: of inhibitory challenge, and to the research points to kids

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Speaker 2: using this kind of course language in those circumstances as well.

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Speaker 2: There are reasons that they might be doing it.

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Speaker 3: Obviously we're not there and we only have a really

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Speaker 3: small snippet of information, but as a parent, sometimes there

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Speaker 3: are signals, we can see the build up and if

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Speaker 3: we can actually kind of cut the circuit before it builds.

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Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, So what's the quality of the connection? Is

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Speaker 2: the child experiencing stress? What's the power dynamic in the relationship.

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Speaker 2: All of these underlying factors, as well as just the

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Speaker 2: child being hungry or angry alanly of a lot of stress,

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Speaker 2: All of these underlying factors could also be used to

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Speaker 2: our advantage by getting in early before they blow up,

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Speaker 2: before things get too much. There was a podcast conversation

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Speaker 2: that I had a couple of months ago with Professor

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Speaker 2: Todd Kashton that was.

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Speaker 3: Such a good conversation, and I actually just listened to

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Speaker 3: it recently in preparation for today because I wondered whether

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Speaker 3: there was some kind of helps that we could reiterate.

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Speaker 3: But one of the things that I loved because there

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Speaker 3: was an acknowledgment in that podcast that we and Todd

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Speaker 3: have very different views on the use of language.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's pro, he's pro course, he loves some explicit language, very.

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Speaker 3: Colorful, but he was able to kind of just elaborate

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Speaker 3: on how that language is used in the home, and

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Speaker 3: the acknowledgment that in the home he doesn't care what

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Speaker 3: kind of language the kids use. They can use whatever

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Speaker 3: language they want, but an acknowledgement that if they want

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Speaker 3: to be really creative around the use of words, then

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Speaker 3: using the seven deadly sins that we previously talked about.

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Speaker 3: Using the seven seven really bad words is pretty lame,

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Speaker 3: a pretty lame at attempt at conveying what you're feeling.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love the phrase that I heard when I

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Speaker 2: was a kid. Profanity is a feeble mind trying to

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Speaker 2: express itself. Forcibly, if you go back to listen to

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Speaker 2: episode four hundred and seventy four, episode four seven four

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Speaker 2: with Todd Kashton, he'll explain what he's done with his

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Speaker 2: kids to encourage them to express themselves well but not

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Speaker 2: necessarily rely on the same bland course language that most

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Speaker 2: people are used to hearing. And it's actually really enlightening

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Speaker 2: and it might actually provide a solution. After the break,

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Speaker 2: my five ideas for how to help our kids stop swearing.

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Speaker 2: Just when you think you've got this parenting gig nailed,

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Speaker 2: your child hits some new milestone that leaves you figuratively

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Speaker 2: banging your head against the wall. You wonder, where's the

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Speaker 2: instruction manual? Your Growth Guide is that instruction manual, a

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Speaker 2: webinar outlining basic milestones so you know where your child's at,

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Speaker 2: where they're going, and what you can expect to get. Insights,

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Speaker 2: reassurance and support from your Growth Guide available online at

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Speaker 2: happy families dot com dot a you.

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Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast with a time

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Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers now, And I'm wondering

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Speaker 3: what your tips are, Doctor Justin.

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Speaker 2: Coles In just before I share that with you, my

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Speaker 2: favorite line from do you have watched The Young Ones

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Speaker 2: British comedy show. These four crazy, completely distinct, different weirdos

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Speaker 2: all moved into the same unit.

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Speaker 5: Can you two guys stop hustling each other?

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Speaker 6: I'm getting really bored with it, all right, Neil's getting bored.

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Speaker 6: The most boring person the whole world is finally getting

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Speaker 6: a taste of his own medicine.

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Speaker 3: I think you made me watch it once. I did

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Speaker 3: still The Young Ones because I watched it and I

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Speaker 3: was like, what are you on about?

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Speaker 2: There's Rick and Neil and Mike. Ben Elton used to write,

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Speaker 2: It's such a funny show.

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Speaker 3: I love the have a very very dim memory of

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Speaker 3: you making me watch it did you want to the

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Speaker 3: early days.

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Speaker 2: I loved it, and there was there was this one

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Speaker 2: episode where there's these devils in hell or something like that,

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Speaker 2: and they get let out of somebody that mentions their name,

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Speaker 2: and no one ever mentions their name because they're really

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Speaker 2: weird names. One of them's name is for Toms.

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Speaker 6: Under the new ruling, all a student needs to qualify

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Speaker 6: for an increased grant is a nimble duel for too

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Speaker 6: much from the local authority.

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Speaker 5: What's for too for Tom?

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Speaker 2: She gets lead it out of hell for a day

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Speaker 2: to recap it some some bizarre thing. But I remember,

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Speaker 2: for a while I would use the word for tums

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Speaker 2: as my cost language explete if it was my opportity.

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Speaker 2: Oh for Toms, I'd get so craggy and use for tomp.

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Speaker 2: And I love this idea that we can just become

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Speaker 2: explosive with fun, creative words. Maybe that's an idea. But

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Speaker 2: five ideas, Kylie, let me run through them. One one,

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Speaker 2: let me one forth, Let me run through them.

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Speaker 3: Number one.

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Speaker 2: I want to start by giving a content warning for

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Speaker 2: the next thirty seconds or so. One of our staff

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Speaker 2: members shared a story with me, and if you've got

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Speaker 2: children listening, this is not a story for children. I

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Speaker 2: want to give you it just a second of press pause.

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Speaker 2: This is definitely not a story for children. So now

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Speaker 2: that I've given that content warning, my staff member's son

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Speaker 2: yelled at his brother, suck my balls. He actually shouted

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Speaker 2: at his brother. He was really angry and he was

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Speaker 2: trying to give him a really hard time. And my

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Speaker 2: staff member walked into the room and said, do you

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Speaker 2: know what you just said, to which the boy replied, yeah,

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Speaker 2: like he thought he was going to get in heaps

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Speaker 2: of trouble. And she said, you're not in trouble, but

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Speaker 2: I just want to make sure that you understand what

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Speaker 2: you just said. You actually just asked your brother to

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Speaker 2: perform moral sex on you. Now, I know I've been

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Speaker 2: really explicit with that, But sometimes if we've got a

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Speaker 2: child who is using this kind of language, if we

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Speaker 2: can just pause, slow it down, and explain precisely what

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Speaker 2: they've said and what it actually means, what we might

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Speaker 2: find is that they may start using alternative language.

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Speaker 3: Or they may look at you and go, what would

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Speaker 3: you know? I don't think so thought would you know?

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Speaker 2: I think that in that case, and in fact, in

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Speaker 2: her case, her son was extraordinary he was mortified. He

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Speaker 2: was so embarrassed. Number one, who was embarrassed that his

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Speaker 2: mum was talking to him about it. But number two,

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Speaker 2: when he paused and thought about the ridiculous nature of

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Speaker 2: what he'd said, he was like, oh my goodness, Okay,

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Speaker 2: so content warning over. But I just wanted to share

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Speaker 2: that as my first option, explain what it means, because

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Speaker 2: when your kids understand what it means, all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: the words don't quite have the same power that perhaps

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Speaker 2: they thought that they did. The second option is a

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Speaker 2: very very low key, really soft option, and that's just

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Speaker 2: to explain the importance of consideration of others. So you

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Speaker 2: mentioned before in episode four to seventy four of the

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Speaker 2: podcast with Todd Kashton, he is fine with his kids

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Speaker 2: using whatever language they want. But one thing that he

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Speaker 2: was really clear about, and I'm so glad he was,

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Speaker 2: is that when other people are in the home, outside

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Speaker 2: of the family, or when we're outside of the home,

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Speaker 2: we need to be mindful that other people may not

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Speaker 2: feel the same way we do about the way these

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Speaker 2: words are being used. And while I don't I don't

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Speaker 2: necessarily agree with this idea, it may be useful in

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Speaker 2: this context for this family, and that is you might

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Speaker 2: say to your child. We can't control the language that

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Speaker 2: you use, but we do have certain standards in our home.

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Speaker 2: If you want to use that language with your friends

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Speaker 2: or down at the skate park, if you want to

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Speaker 2: use that language in other contexts, that's up to you.

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Speaker 2: But when you're here or when you're around other people

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Speaker 2: who might find this language inappropriate, we ask that you

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Speaker 2: are considerate of them.

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Speaker 3: Is one of your points emotion coaching? No, it's not.

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Speaker 3: Oh really, I think that this is a perfect time,

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Speaker 3: especially when you think about Aaron's story and the acknowledgment

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Speaker 3: that her son is using this behavior when he has

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Speaker 3: big emotions. Yeap, So helping him understand what he's feeling

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Speaker 3: when he's not feeling those big emotions outside of the fact,

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Speaker 3: and what other options he would have available to him

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Speaker 3: to be able to express himself adequately would be really

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Speaker 3: powerful for him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when our kids are in the heat of the moment,

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Speaker 2: it may not work, but it's worth trying because emotion

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Speaker 2: coaching is profoundly powerful when we get it right. It

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Speaker 2: takes practice, so you might want to practice in times

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Speaker 2: that aren't quite this heat.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's probably not going to happen when he's heated,

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Speaker 3: and that's what I'm saying, but it can.

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Speaker 2: Like I've emotion coached you through some pretty big emotions

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Speaker 2: and our kids what he's saying, I'm just putting it

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Speaker 2: out there. But when your child's losing it, instead of

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Speaker 2: saying stop it, cut it out, or whatever you might say.

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Speaker 2: You're really mad about this, and.

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Speaker 3: As hard as it is, you can't make it about

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Speaker 3: you because it's hurtful. It's really hurtful in the moment,

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Speaker 3: but it's actually not about you and being able to

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Speaker 3: take yourself outside of that and just focus on this

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Speaker 3: little human being who is hurting.

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Speaker 2: You're so mad, you're so frustrated. You just want to

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Speaker 2: let everyone know about it. You want to use all

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Speaker 2: the bad words that you can and just let this go,

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Speaker 2: don't you your furious, So don't give the words power.

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Speaker 2: Just acknowledge the emotions. So there's a couple of other

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Speaker 2: things that I'm going to run through fairly quickly because

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Speaker 2: time is getting away from us. But I hope this

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Speaker 2: is helpful. The first is be mindful of what content

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Speaker 2: your child is accessing. Obviously, your child accessing content online

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Speaker 2: and on Netflix, or whatever. That could have some impact.

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Speaker 2: But we need to be mindful that even if they're

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Speaker 2: not being exposed to this stuff through the media, they

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Speaker 2: are being exposed to it in the playground. So that's

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Speaker 2: going to have some impact, but not a lot. But

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Speaker 2: I definitely think that we need to maintain our standards

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Speaker 2: in the home, even when it comes to media consumption.

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Speaker 2: Never ever accept abuse. Never accept abuse. I would be

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Speaker 2: getting dad to step in quite firmly. So there's a

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Speaker 2: difference between coercive discipline and confrontive discipline. Coercive discipline is

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Speaker 2: when you say I'm going to make you do this,

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Speaker 2: here's what's going to happen if you don't do it,

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Speaker 2: and it gets kind of nasty. We're using our power

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Speaker 2: to force something to happen. Confrontive discipline is not the same.

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Speaker 2: Confrontive discipline is when somebody steps in and says, hey,

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Speaker 2: what's going on is not okay, and I'm going to

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Speaker 2: call you out on this. We need to do something

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Speaker 2: about it, and it needs to stop now. So I

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Speaker 2: remember when one of the kids was unkind to you

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Speaker 2: once and was saying something really rude. I stepped in

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Speaker 2: and I said something along the lines of you are

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Speaker 2: talking to the one person in the world that I

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Speaker 2: would literally do anything for, the most important person in

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Speaker 2: my life, the most important person in my world. And

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Speaker 2: you can do and say whatever you like to whoever

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Speaker 2: else you want, but you will not ever speak like

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Speaker 2: that and use that kind of language in relationship to

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Speaker 2: your mum. I got the old patriarchal and paternalistic and

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Speaker 2: all that sort of thing, But it sent a rilliculous

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Speaker 2: message to the kids that they don't speak like that

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Speaker 2: about you or to you. I reckon if dad can

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Speaker 2: step in and just say no. And I've said that

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Speaker 2: when they've been saying it to one another as well,

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Speaker 2: when they've been cruel to one another. It's like, no, no,

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Speaker 2: Your sister is one of the most important people in

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Speaker 2: my life. If anyone came into the house and started

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Speaker 2: to behave like that, I'd stop it, no matter what

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Speaker 2: it took. I would not accept that from a stranger

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Speaker 2: in the house. I'm certainly not going to accept it

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Speaker 2: from you. Sometimes, that confrontive discipline, it's not threatening. It's

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Speaker 2: not saying I'm going to take your ripad off you

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Speaker 2: for a week. It's just calling and saying no. And

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Speaker 2: here's why we can't ever accept abuse and Kylie, ultimately,

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Speaker 2: what we've got to do is get curious. We've kind

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Speaker 2: of that's been an underlying theme of the whole podcast.

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Speaker 2: What's underlying this? Where it's this coming from what's really

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Speaker 2: going on? What do you think we can do better?

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Speaker 2: How are we going to do with it next time?

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Speaker 2: They're my answers, no quick fixes at all, but hopefully

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Speaker 2: they're helpful for you.

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Speaker 4: Erin.

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Speaker 3: I think the only other thing that I would acknowledge

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Speaker 3: is that when I think about some of I'm going

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Speaker 3: to say, you're bad habits. Right. I don't have any

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Speaker 3: sure now, But when I think about bad habits that

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Speaker 3: I have or things that I want to overcome or change,

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Speaker 3: and think about how many times I slip up, how

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Speaker 3: many times or how long the process is to change

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Speaker 3: that behavior, right, recognizing that in our children it's no

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Speaker 3: different and probably even harder for them because they don't

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Speaker 3: have the same experience and maturity that we have to

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Speaker 3: make those changes, and so it really requires a soft

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Speaker 3: place as we help them navigate and.

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Speaker 2: A good example, Aaron. We hope this has been helpful.

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Speaker 2: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rowland from

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Speaker 2: Bridge Media Craig Bruce is our executive producer, and if

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Speaker 2: you like more refol about making your family happier, please

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Speaker 2: visit us at happy families dot com, dot a