1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the technics 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imbact. I'm an 4 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: organizational psychologist, the founder of innovation consultancy Inventium, and I'm 5 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work date. This 6 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: episode is another my favorite Tip episode. The titles probably 7 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: pretty self explanatory. It's about my favorite tip from each 8 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: of the interviews I conduct. So my guest today is 9 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: Jess Hatsus. In twenty thirteen, Jess co founded frank Body, 10 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: which six years later has become a twenty million dollar 11 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: global beauty brand distributed through retailers like Sephora and Altar 12 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: and is sold in one hundred and forty one different countries. 13 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: Jess was named one of Forbes magazines thirty Under thirty 14 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: and was named Woman of the Year by Cosmopolitan in 15 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. Jess's role at frank Body now is as 16 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: the chief marketing Officer. As well as her role at 17 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: frank Body. If that's not enough, She's also the co 18 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: founder of communications agency Willow and Blake and in this 19 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: extract of my chat with Jess, we talk about her 20 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: relationship with feedback, and in fact, how she actually used 21 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: to be scared of feedback. 22 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 2: I've learned that asking for feedback is really important, and 23 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 2: I used to be really scared of feedback. 24 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 3: Also, all through my life. 25 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 2: I was like the kid that never wanted to get 26 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 2: in trouble. I was the straight a student. I never 27 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: did anything wrong, and that was my reward system. And like, oh, 28 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 2: you're so, You're such a good girl. You always getting 29 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 2: good grades, and so I was like, well, that's what 30 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 2: I need to. 31 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 3: Do for my entire life, Like just be good, never 32 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 3: do anything bad. 33 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: So I wasn't used to having to receive negative feedback 34 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 2: because I've never really had it. And so growing, you know, 35 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 2: when you take you first steps out in your career, 36 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 2: stuff stuff up all the time. And even at university 37 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 2: it was such a different environment to high school, and 38 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 2: I struggled with that. I just hadn't it just hadn't 39 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 2: been part of my life before. So over the course 40 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 2: of many, many years, I really learned that feedback is 41 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 2: actually really important to be able to grow and become 42 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 2: better and asking for it and being okay with the 43 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 2: fact that knowing it's not a criticism of you as 44 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 2: a person. 45 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 3: It's really just like you are not your work. 46 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: And that was a big lesson I had to learn, 47 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 2: and so that helps me do my job better, it 48 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 2: helps me manage people better. I'm just so crazy reader 49 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 2: and podcast listener as well, like a sponge trying to 50 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 2: absorb information. 51 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 3: But what in your like? 52 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: What books and also podcasts like have had the biggest 53 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: impact on your thinking as a leader. 54 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 3: Oh that's a good question. 55 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 2: I think it's changed a lot over time. So my 56 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: journey I think began with Tim Perris like ten years ago. Yeah, 57 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 2: and we all read that and that was what really 58 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 2: led us to wanting to create a product based business. 59 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 3: We're like four hours a week. That's the ideal you 60 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 3: lied to me, too, great idea. 61 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 2: I love a lot of the Harvard Business Review information 62 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 2: I a because it's based in a lot of really 63 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 2: great academic theory, but it's short and bite size, so 64 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 2: I really enjoy. That's what I love about podcasts too, 65 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 2: because I can multitask, and I'm sometimes I'm like, is 66 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 2: that a good thing that I always need to try 67 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: and do several things at once. 68 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 3: Can't I just drive? Can't I just cook? Can't I 69 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 3: just walk? 70 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 2: So I listen to things that are a little bit 71 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 2: outside my wheelhouse. I love science and like medical podcasts 72 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 2: because it gives me an opportunity to flex a different 73 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 2: brain muscle. 74 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Any favorite ones that you've got at the 75 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: moment going on? Ah? 76 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually I don't know what genre it falls 77 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 2: into by I love Dave Asprey's Bulletproof podcast because I 78 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 2: find the information on there so interesting relevant to my 79 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 2: everyday life. But they're really pushing something in their field. 80 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 2: So that's when I listened to a lot, and then 81 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 2: my husband has to listen to me rand about it. 82 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 3: I guess what I learned today. I don't. 83 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I went through a stage of listening to his podcast. 84 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,279 Speaker 1: I went through a stage of doing Bulletproof coffee. 85 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 3: Actually, but then gave that up after a little while. 86 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: And so like getting back to feedback. So feedback for 87 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: you was something that I guess you did take personally 88 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: because it was like you're doing something wrong and it's 89 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: not something that you were kind of used to experiencing 90 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: when you were growing up. Was there a moment where 91 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: it kind of clicked for you that it's like, actually, 92 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: feedback is the way to get better stuff. 93 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 2: I can't pinpoint a particular moment, but I know that 94 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 2: it really occurred around three to four years ago when 95 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 2: myself and Ree, my other business partner, decided together that 96 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 2: we wanted to do three six year reviews and we'd 97 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 2: never done them before, and we felt we actually started 98 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 2: working with a business coach, and that's probably what led 99 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 2: to it, because we were we'd identified we were struggling 100 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 2: as leaders, like we could manage people, where I think 101 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 2: there's a really big difference in terms of like setting 102 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 2: that leadership, understanding my leadership style, understanding my own weaknesses 103 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 2: and vulnerability. So with him, we worked with him for 104 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: six or twelve months. That was great in terms of 105 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 2: just learning how to give ourselves and each other feedback. 106 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 2: There's a lot of strange dynamics in our business. I mean, 107 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 2: we're best friends, so where you separate giving feedback on 108 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 2: work to where the personal relationship comes in, it was 109 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 2: all a little bit incestuous. So we had to learn 110 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 2: how to do that for ourselves and with each other 111 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,119 Speaker 2: and then do that three sixty review with our team. 112 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: And I remember the first time I read it, I 113 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 2: was petrified to open that. If we did it by 114 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 2: email and anonymous so that our team could feel comfortable. 115 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 2: I was so scared. 116 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 3: I'm like, what are they going to say about me? 117 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 3: Like what is it? 118 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 2: And I read it and I was like, ah, cool, 119 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 2: that's fine, that's fair. I recognize that in myself too, 120 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 2: And it wasn't this like holy hell moment that I 121 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 2: thought it might be. So that's probably when, yeah, everything's 122 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 2: less shit than we think it's going to be. 123 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: It's a good motto for life, really, isn't it. Hello 124 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: there me again? I must say before having a chat 125 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: with Jess, I hadn't really thought much about the idea 126 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 1: of being scared of feedback in terms of how Jess 127 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: expressed this, But when she spoke about that, I could 128 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: actually really relate to her experience. So, you know, I 129 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: hope if perhaps you've got a funny relationship with feedback, 130 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: that there was something in this chat for you. So 131 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 1: that is it for today's episode. If you liked this 132 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: chat with Jess, you might want to listen to my 133 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: full interview with her, which I absolutely loved doing, so 134 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 1: I will link to that in the show notes. And 135 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: if you are enjoying how I work, why not share 136 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: the love and let other people know about how I work. 137 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: That is one of the ways that how I work 138 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: has grown a lot. It's time on this planet, so 139 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: thank you if you've already done that, and thank you 140 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: if you're about to do that today. So that's it 141 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: for today's show, and I will see you next time.