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Speaker 1: Well it is Friday morning.

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Speaker 2: It is time for the week that wasn't in the

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Speaker 2: studio with us this morning. Alice Springs representing Joshua Burgo

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Speaker 2: and for the Scene Katie.

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Speaker 3: Good morning the Central Australia.

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Speaker 2: Well, good to have you on the show. We've got

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Speaker 2: Matt Cunningham from Sky News. Good morning to your match from.

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Speaker 1: Out in the rural area.

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Speaker 2: Keys Here Puric, good morning to you morning Katie.

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Speaker 4: Morning Bush People Actualty out in the Bush.

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Speaker 2: And representing the Northern Suburbs and the Labour Party in

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Speaker 2: arir Kids, Good morning to you.

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Speaker 5: Good morning Katie, Good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 2: Lovely to have you all in the studio. Now, look,

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Speaker 2: we'll start off with Territory Day because the government have announced,

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Speaker 2: they announced yesterday on the show that Territory Days returning

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Speaker 2: back to Mindle Beach after what has been a.

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Speaker 1: Bit of a debacle. I think you'd have to say

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Speaker 1: you early in the week.

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Speaker 4: Other words, but I don't think I should.

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Speaker 6: I know, there seem to be a lot of buck

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Speaker 6: passing by the government and it did seem like no

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Speaker 6: one really knew what everyone was doing.

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Speaker 3: Running the show is running the show.

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Speaker 4: Any person who made any sense was Benettict from me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So it kicked off sort of last Friday.

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Speaker 2: We'd spoken about it on the week that was, because

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Speaker 2: I'd asked, you know, we'd received messages on Thursday from

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Speaker 2: a couple of the market stall holders and they'd said

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Speaker 2: to us, Katie, we're really concerned.

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Speaker 1: We're hearing the Territory Day is going to be down

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Speaker 1: at the waterfront, and so.

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Speaker 2: We thought, all right, we'll ask about it on the

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Speaker 2: week that was. Joel Boden didn't seem to know anything

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Speaker 2: much about it, so we thought, all right, let's see

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Speaker 2: what happens. By Tuesday morning, when we had Brent Potter

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Speaker 2: on the show, he was saying, yet it's moving, and

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Speaker 2: had given different reasons and essentially said that the reason

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Speaker 2: was that a complaint had been made to the Aboriginal

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Speaker 2: Areas Protection Authority, or that a complaint had been made

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Speaker 2: and that they needed that certificate.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: We ended up then having Benedict's Scambrey on the show

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Speaker 2: from the Aboriginal Areas Protection Authority and he said, well,

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Speaker 2: it's not essential. They haven't had it for the last

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Speaker 2: twenty three years. It's not essential, but it is obviously

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Speaker 2: a sacred side area down there. And so yep, it

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Speaker 2: is an important an area of great importance down there.

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Speaker 2: I mean I was like my brain was going, well,

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Speaker 2: hang on a second, why can't we still have base

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Speaker 2: in the grass? Why can we still have mindle markets?

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Speaker 2: Why can't we still have everything else?

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Speaker 6: And the markets there every week in the dry ticle week,

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Speaker 6: in this drive season with thousands of people. I there's

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Speaker 6: something that happened with the major events people. And no

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Speaker 6: disrespect any hardworking person in that agency. But I when

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Speaker 6: they said waterfront us, are you serious, Like it's the

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Speaker 6: area to the right of the wood or the water.

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Speaker 1: Parklands, I think it's there's bugger all space there.

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Speaker 3: There was a lot a lot of buck passing.

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Speaker 4: The humans wouldn't been able to fit into that space.

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Speaker 3: There was a lot of buck passing. When it came

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Speaker 3: to this KDO, it was interesting, you know, coming from

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Speaker 3: our springers coming up here and listening to what's been happening.

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Speaker 3: But I think we were told it was either it

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Speaker 3: was a risk of erosion, someone had made a complaint,

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Speaker 3: and by the end of the week, all of a sudden,

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Speaker 3: I hang on, we're going to turn around and we're

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Speaker 3: going to we're going to do what everyone else wants

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Speaker 3: us to. So I think when we listen to what's

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Speaker 3: been happening over the week, someone knew what was going on.

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Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, obviously no one

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Speaker 3: wanted to actually come out and say what was going on,

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Speaker 3: and too.

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Speaker 4: Kind Joshua.

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Speaker 2: Going on.

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Speaker 3: They knew what was going on, they didn't want to

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Speaker 3: do anything about it, and then when every one got

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Speaker 3: angry and upset about it, they had to do a backflip.

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Speaker 2: Well, we did then end up having Evil Lawler on

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Speaker 2: the show again yesterday, and she had said that there

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Speaker 2: was one complaint made two NT Major events. So there

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Speaker 2: was a complaint made to NT Major Events, is what

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Speaker 2: she had said, because for a while there we were

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Speaker 2: kind of going, well, hang on, has a complaint even

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Speaker 2: been made? After speaking to Ben from the Aboriginal Area's

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Speaker 2: Protection Authority. But I also want to note that there

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Speaker 2: was a question asked of the Attorney General, Chancey Paike

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Speaker 2: about this as well as I understand it in estimates,

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Speaker 2: and I actually thought the response from him was an

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Speaker 2: incredibly interesting one where it was you know that there

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Speaker 2: was advice provided and I would need to go back

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Speaker 2: and find the actual but yeah, well that's so advice

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Speaker 2: provided was provided to NT Major Events that while the

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Speaker 2: permit was not essential, if any damage was done, that

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Speaker 2: ANT Major Events would be liable. Now to me, and

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Speaker 2: I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth, but it sort

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Speaker 2: of sounded like a thinly veiled threat to me, where

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Speaker 2: it was like, well, if something goes wrong here, no,

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Speaker 2: that's like that's on you. So that's a big risk

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Speaker 2: then for NT Major Events to be taking, Katie.

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Speaker 6: The Anti Major Events is a standalone agency. They've just

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Speaker 6: sorted out the Barunga Music Festival, They've had involvement in

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Speaker 6: the Greek Glenty, so they are well practiced. One would

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Speaker 6: think into these major events that come with risks.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if do they organize wronger, I'm not sure.

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Speaker 6: They certainly were and are also with Glenty if nothing

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Speaker 6: else providing funding, and they would have a well practice

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Speaker 6: I would have thought risk assessment system and procedures in place.

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Speaker 6: So to say there's some risk, you know, and therefore

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Speaker 6: they didn't want to take any risk.

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Speaker 4: I just find that bullshit.

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Speaker 3: Twenty three years it's been happening and for all of

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Speaker 3: a sudden this comes up.

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Speaker 1: Mari, what did you make of it?

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Speaker 2: All.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I was surprised when I heard that it was

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Speaker 7: going to be moved to like the majority of Darwin

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Speaker 7: Night's we want it down at Mindle Beach, and I'm really.

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Speaker 5: Glad that it's back there.

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Speaker 7: I did hear through Minister Paike's estimates appearance him saying

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Speaker 7: very clearly that it is best practice that Middle Beach

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Speaker 7: is part of sacred land belonging to the Larichie people and.

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Speaker 5: That liabilities would flow.

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Speaker 7: But like Haasier says, Major Events that are an amazing

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Speaker 7: company who are focused on delivering world class events in

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Speaker 7: the Northern Territory right throughout the year. And so I'm

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Speaker 7: happy to see it return to Mindle Beach and I'm

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Speaker 7: really glad that, yeah, we can support that, and I'm

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Speaker 7: looking forward to having a great Territory day right around

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Speaker 7: the Northern Territory for everybody, no matter where they are.

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Speaker 2: Do we know which area in particular is of concern?

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Speaker 2: Because I thought to myself as well, is there a

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Speaker 2: situation where that can be petitioned off? You know where

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Speaker 2: it can actually be called and Doph.

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Speaker 6: I mean in olden days, and I've known people who

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Speaker 6: have since died who definitely knew that here. It was

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Speaker 6: used by original people, whether it be the Larochie of

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Speaker 6: people here in Darwen or sometimes the Tiwi people came

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Speaker 6: over and you know, those people were buried there. I

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Speaker 6: mean this old lady who since died said she used

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Speaker 6: to see them and they used to do dancers and

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Speaker 6: crabbiges and celebrations in that whole bay area, in that

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Speaker 6: whole bay. But with the passing of time, of course,

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Speaker 6: you know that's been eroded, not figurably so not literally.

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Speaker 6: But if there is one particular area or or a

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Speaker 6: special area where certain things happen that is sacred, like

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Speaker 6: you know church in our Christian world, then yes that

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Speaker 6: should be protected and it should be quarantined or sectioned off,

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Speaker 6: you know, with appropriate signage and fencing and whatever. But

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Speaker 6: just to come out with a blanket, oh you know

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Speaker 6: there's a problem there, Like that's bullshit. I mean, who,

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Speaker 6: First of all, there's there's not enough evidence here on

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Speaker 6: the table. Who is this one complainant? Where did the

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Speaker 6: advice come from, Who made the decision to physically move it,

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Speaker 6: and did that person then informed the government relevant minister

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Speaker 6: or with the chief minister that they were going to

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Speaker 6: move it? You know, I think there should be a

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Speaker 6: I'm not going to say a review into it, but

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Speaker 6: there's certainly is a lot of lessons that have come out.

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Speaker 6: There should be some learnings when you've got a such

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Speaker 6: a big event that's so popular in the territory.

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Speaker 1: Bit of an own goal by the government was.

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Speaker 8: We're going to say, I watched the whole thing unfolded

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Speaker 8: and listened to it mostly on your show, Katie the

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Speaker 8: Thing and reading it as well in the anteen years

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Speaker 8: I couldn't I was. I was following it and I

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Speaker 8: never actually picked it up myself because I couldn't work

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Speaker 8: out exactly what was going on. Like there was there

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Speaker 8: was sort of an insinuation that that you know, Arper

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Speaker 8: had had sort of put the heavy on the government

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Speaker 8: when we found out that they'd done no such thing,

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Speaker 8: and so then it just seemed to be this, this

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Speaker 8: remarkable storm at a teacup.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 8: It was even suggested to me yesterday, perhaps unkindly, that

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Speaker 8: the government had orchestrated this whole so the chief could

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Speaker 8: come in the last minute to be the savior and

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Speaker 8: maybe in an episode of Yes Minister or something, But

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Speaker 8: I don't think that was actually the case here that's

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Speaker 8: probably giving them too much credit, but yeah, it does.

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Speaker 8: It does seem that I think sometimes this happens with

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Speaker 8: government departments, that they view things in such a risk

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Speaker 8: averse manner and so then they don't make common sense decisions.

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Speaker 8: And I guess that's when the government's job is to

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Speaker 8: come in and say, well, you know, that might be

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Speaker 8: the advice that the department's giving, but come on, let's

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Speaker 8: make the sensible decision here.

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Speaker 3: I think Brent Potter came out during the week and

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Speaker 3: said that they did come to him and tell them

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Speaker 3: about this. So for what we squashed on their head

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Speaker 3: right then, I mean, this is the thing. It's it's

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Speaker 3: the people power. Territories have stood up. We've got behind them,

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Speaker 3: you know, with the petitions and all the rest of it,

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Speaker 3: and now the right decisions been made of backflip's been

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Speaker 3: to be made by this slavery government, and I'm glad

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Speaker 3: to see that it's back where it should be.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, it was certainly an interesting, interesting situation throughout

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Speaker 2: the week. There is no doubt about that we're going

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Speaker 2: to take a really quick break when we come back.

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Speaker 2: There is still plenty to cover off on this week,

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Speaker 2: including the estimates process. We've also had further developments in

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Speaker 2: the IKAC situation as well as NAJA and what do

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Speaker 2: you think of that council sculpture.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk more about a little bit later on the show.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Mix one O four nine.

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Speaker 2: You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three

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Speaker 2: sixty and if you've just joined us in the studio

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Speaker 2: with us today, we've got Josh Burgoin, Matt Cunningham, Keziapiric

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Speaker 2: and nari A Kit.

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Speaker 1: Now we know that there are.

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Speaker 2: Renewed calls for the Board of Average of Australia's largest

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Speaker 2: Indigenous legal service, to be sacked following allegations it appointed

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Speaker 2: a known domestic violence offender as its chair. Now, Matt,

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Speaker 2: I'm reading from your report earlier in the week that

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Speaker 2: Hugh Woodbree was appointed the chair of the North Australian

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Speaker 2: Aboriginal Justice Agency in March, almost four years after he

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Speaker 2: pleaded guilty to serious domestic violence offenses in Alice Springs.

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Speaker 2: The revelations in the Australian newspaper earlier in the week

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Speaker 2: followed a bitter internal dispute between the board's former chair,

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Speaker 2: Colleen Rosis and former chief Executive Priscilla Atkins that he

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Speaker 2: is the subject of ongoing legal action in the federal court. Now,

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Speaker 2: Darwin Barrister John Lawrence sc a former principal solicitor for

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Speaker 2: NAJ and former head of the Anti Criminal Lawyers Association,

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Speaker 2: told you mattch earlier in the week that the board

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Speaker 2: needed to be removed. Talk us through your report earlier

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Speaker 2: in the week and what John had said.

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Speaker 8: Well, John's been talking about this until he's bluing the face,

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Speaker 8: and few others are. And it doesn't seem that a

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Speaker 8: lot of people are listening or have the ability to

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Speaker 8: do anything. But there is a crisis that is going

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Speaker 8: on at NAJA that has been going on for at

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Speaker 8: least eighteen months, if not more. That is most concerningly

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Speaker 8: seeing Aboriginal people going unrepresented in court.

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Speaker 9: That is the biggest issue we've got here.

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Speaker 8: But in the background, you've got all of these shenanigans

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Speaker 8: playing out between the board board, current board members, ex

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Speaker 8: board members, CEOs x CEOs, you know, the former CEO

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Speaker 8: of Priscilla Atkins and the former chair, Collen Roses, are

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Speaker 8: locked in this bitter battle that's playing out in the

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Speaker 8: federal court. We're expecting you to get a decision there soon.

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Speaker 8: There've been all sorts of accusations that were made against

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Speaker 8: one another during those court proceedings, and then you had

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Speaker 8: the revelation this week in The Australian that Hugh be

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Speaker 8: the man who was made chair. He's just been made

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Speaker 8: chair that back in twenty twenty. They're calling it historic.

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Speaker 8: I'm not sure it's that historic. He pleaded guilty to

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Speaker 8: an incident in Alice Springs where he assaulted his pregnant partner,

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Speaker 8: stood on her stomach, yelled profanities in front of the

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Speaker 8: et cetera, et cetera. I don't think anyone. Everyone I've

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Speaker 8: spoken to about this says that it's unacceptable and it

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Speaker 8: is inappropriate for him to hold that position, and that

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Speaker 8: goes from the center. Prices talked about these issues for forever,

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Speaker 8: to Kate Orton, who was really strong on it the

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Speaker 8: other day, and she didn't equivocate at all. She just

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Speaker 8: said he has to go. And I think that that

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Speaker 8: is the position that most people hold. And yet he's

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Speaker 8: still there. They're still getting funding that he's given from

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Speaker 8: the federal government to the NT and then you get

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Speaker 8: this stupid back and forth between the federal government and

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Speaker 8: the ant government about whose responsibility is because no one

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Speaker 8: wants it seems to want to be the bad guy

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Speaker 8: here and step in and say enough for you guys.

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Speaker 9: Until he's gone, you're not getting any more money.

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Speaker 6: Is this is all about the governance of Narger and

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Speaker 6: for the board or if they outsourced it whatever, for

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Speaker 6: them to consider appointing a fellow like that, you know,

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Speaker 6: with his record he pleaded guilty and yes, I read

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Speaker 6: something that he said, I was a reform man and

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Speaker 6: God advice blah blah blah.

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Speaker 4: And he may well have.

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Speaker 6: He may well have, but whether he's really reformed one

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Speaker 6: will never know. But for the board to consider actually

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Speaker 6: appointing someone only a few years ago historic calls into

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Speaker 6: question the governance and the integrity of that board itself.

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Speaker 6: And I haven't heard it from John Lawrence asking for

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Speaker 6: them to quit, but I think they do, and I

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Speaker 6: think it needs to be a serious look at that,

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Speaker 6: because we've had the historic stuff, historic previous CEO's big

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Speaker 6: ship fights, lawyers leaving in Alice Springs in droves, and

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Speaker 6: ultimately it leaves the person that they're representing vulnerable for us,

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Speaker 6: they don't have the legal represented representation to do, you know,

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Speaker 6: what they need to do in the court, and NAGA does,

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Speaker 6: from what I understand, so much work in representing Aboriginal people,

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Speaker 6: particularly say women who have been domestic violence victims. So,

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Speaker 6: you know, how can this fellow sit very clearly at

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Speaker 6: a disk knowing what he's done in his past. I mean,

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Speaker 6: I get it, he's done his time. I get it,

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Speaker 6: he's done his punishment and all that sort of stuff. But

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Speaker 6: sometimes your past means you cannot do something in the future.

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Speaker 2: And well, the fact it went through the court like

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Speaker 2: it went through court, We're not talking about an allegation here,

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Speaker 2: We're talking about something that's actually gone through court.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, So I think the board does need to have

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Speaker 6: serious look at itself and whether it's the anti governor

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Speaker 6: where it's a comorf government who needs to step in.

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Speaker 6: I don't know what the process would be, but that

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Speaker 6: governance issue is really serious and they just don't have it.

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Speaker 3: It's so important, Katie, with these organizations they're set up

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Speaker 3: to represent people. There has been a lot of issues

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Speaker 3: that have been going on with NAGA that has been

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Speaker 3: well reported in the media. This is just another one

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Speaker 3: that has been brought to light. We've had as as

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Speaker 3: Matt Rightley said, the salpiece and it had just enterprise

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Speaker 3: come out and done labor Membrate Warden. We need to

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Speaker 3: ensure that these organizations are operating to do exactly what

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Speaker 3: they're meant to do, and they represent people. They're being

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Speaker 3: funded by the territory, by the federal government, but taxpayers, taxpayers,

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Speaker 3: and at the end of the day, it does not

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Speaker 3: meet any pub test and that's what's really frustrating, O Katie.

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Speaker 7: I just wanted to make sure that I put on

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Speaker 7: the public record.

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Speaker 5: I was actually a.

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Speaker 7: Darhin member of Najor for about two two and a

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Speaker 7: half years before I was pre selected. You know, it

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Speaker 7: is an important organization that does deliver important legal services

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Speaker 7: for Aboriginal territorians, and like Josh said, it's been in

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Speaker 7: the news a very long time for all the wrong reasons.

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Speaker 5: And when I.

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Speaker 7: Read this about the current chair, I was absolutely appalled.

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Speaker 7: As an Aboriginal woman, somebody who engages with victim survivors

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Speaker 7: of domestic and family and sexual violence on a regular nature.

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Speaker 7: And I'm all for reform and I'm all for behavior

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Speaker 7: change programs. I mean, I knocked on a door and

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Speaker 7: spoke to a gentleman a couple of months back, and

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Speaker 7: he was sharing a bit of his journey and it's

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Speaker 7: really important work. But I think Kere's he is right

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Speaker 7: when you've got somebody who's the chair with that background

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Speaker 7: only recently, I think the incident went back to twenty

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Speaker 7: twenty worry that that would turn potential clients away. Let's

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Speaker 7: remember that Narga is a company limited by guarantee. It

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Speaker 7: is funded through the federal government through an Aboriginal Legal

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Speaker 7: Service partnership that the Northern Territory government disperses to them.

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Speaker 7: A company limited by guarantee, I would hazard I guess,

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Speaker 7: as you know something like Woolworths, you can't just stand

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Speaker 7: down a board because your government and so again what's

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Speaker 7: going on I think is completely a borrn. I don't

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Speaker 7: support it at all, and I would like to think

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Speaker 7: that the NAGER board would actually reconsider their decision to

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Speaker 7: make this person the.

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Speaker 8: Chair as someone who is a former member. As you say, Nari,

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Speaker 8: I mean. John Lawrence has said to me several times

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Speaker 8: that he has just looked on in shock and bewilderment

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Speaker 8: at what has been going on there for a few years. Now,

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Speaker 8: I mean, have you, as someone who was on the inside,

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Speaker 8: looked at what has been happening there. What is your

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Speaker 8: view of how NAGE has been operating, both at a

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Speaker 8: board level and as an organization over the past years.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, as a former Darwin member, Matt, as an Aboriginal

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Speaker 7: person in the Northern Territory, we just want a functioning

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Speaker 7: Aboriginal legal service, no matter where you run on the

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Speaker 7: Northern Territory. Hearing that we have defendants who are representing

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Speaker 7: themselves because NAJA hasn't been able to provide the resources

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Speaker 7: as absolutely inexcusable. I get that there are court cases

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Speaker 7: ongoing at the moment and they will play out the

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Speaker 7: way that they need to, but we need a functional

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Speaker 7: Aboriginal legal service and that's what all the people.

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Speaker 5: Are calling for.

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Speaker 3: And what's happening with the funding? Because am I right

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Speaker 3: to say that you've called for funding to come back

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Speaker 3: from NADA that was given to them to actually represent

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Speaker 3: people that they then didn't. I mean that this is

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Speaker 3: what's been interesting down in all of Springs. You rightly said,

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Speaker 3: I think there've been people that have been flown in

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Speaker 3: to a essentially, you know, represent people because we don't

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Speaker 3: have the legal representation there for people. So what's actually

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Speaker 3: happening with that funding?

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Speaker 5: So I'm just letting you know.

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Speaker 7: What I can make sense of is that through the

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Speaker 7: Attorney General Injustice, they administer the federal grant through the

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Speaker 7: Federal Department of Attorney General and Justice, where we believe

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Speaker 7: here that the funds are provided for a service that's

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Speaker 7: not delivered. We're absolutely working with the FEDS to report that.

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Speaker 7: That's how this came about. My understanding is that the

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Speaker 7: federal government have made the decision to not dispense those

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Speaker 7: old to actually retrieve those funds for the un undelivered services.

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Speaker 3: And who awards the contract? Is it the FEDS or

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Speaker 3: the NT government to actually say NADA is going to

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Speaker 3: be providing these services.

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Speaker 7: I believe that that is. I'll have to just go

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Speaker 7: back to and double check. But NAGA is our only

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Speaker 7: Aboriginal legal service in the Northern Territory in Central Australia.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, right, Carless, wasn't it.

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Speaker 3: That's right. They got funded, well, they.

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Speaker 8: Got taken over by NAGA essentially they do well, larger

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Speaker 8: took over their work. That was a few years ago,

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Speaker 8: It's maybe four or five years ago, and I think

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Speaker 8: the outcoming Alice Springs as a consequence of that has

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Speaker 8: not been.

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Speaker 3: Not been good at all.

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Speaker 6: No, Katie, if what Nora says, sorry Abo, If Nora

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Speaker 6: says it's a company limited by a guarantee, it may

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Speaker 6: be something that asked me.

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Speaker 4: To look at if it's best. If it's a listed

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Speaker 4: company limited by.

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Speaker 6: Guarantee, and they need and there's very clear under the

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Speaker 6: relevant legislation, come off legislation the responsibilities and the roles

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Speaker 6: of directors of these kind of companies. So maybe that

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Speaker 6: needs to be put in the mix as well, because

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Speaker 6: clearly it is not functioning.

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Speaker 2: Mean, look functionally, you know, you look at different scenarios

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Speaker 2: around the place, and from like I'm just listening to

404
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Speaker 2: all of this and thinking to myself, we literally we

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Speaker 2: are funding this service as taxpayers. We're funding funding this

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Speaker 2: service which is not delivering the outcomes intended by the

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Speaker 2: sounds of it. In terms of that representation of clients

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Speaker 2: and that there's people then having to represent themselves. You know,

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Speaker 2: we've got a situation where there's an ongoing court case.

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Speaker 2: You've also got the situation where there is the chair

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Speaker 2: that's been appointed despite that, you know that that that.

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Speaker 1: Form of domestic violence incident.

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Speaker 2: To me, it does not sound as though it's working

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Speaker 2: or functioning in the way that it's being funded to do.

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Speaker 2: So I cannot understand then how we you know, like

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Speaker 2: how we're in a situation where it's content like where

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Speaker 2: it continues to just flounder.

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Speaker 4: Maybe that happened.

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Speaker 6: Maybe our Attorney general needs to talk to the federal

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Speaker 6: Attorney General to trying to resolve this issue.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's got to be results, got to step in,

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Speaker 4: someone has.

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Speaker 8: To step Earlier this year they went to Nager and said,

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Speaker 8: come on, sort your stuff out or you're in strife,

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Speaker 8: and Najer came back with a plan and that that

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Speaker 8: plan basically involved them, you know, seconding other lawyers from interstate,

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Speaker 8: as Josh has been saying, to sort of fly in.

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Speaker 8: But from what certainly from what I've been told that

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Speaker 8: there's an issue now that you know, a lawyer flies

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Speaker 8: in from Melbourne.

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Speaker 9: Or Sydney lands in the Darwen local Court.

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Speaker 8: To represent you know, an Aboriginal person accused of X,

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Speaker 8: Y and Z has no understanding of the antique court system,

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Speaker 8: has no understanding of the issues you know, specific to

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Speaker 8: the Northern Territory and to Aboriginal people in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 8: And then as a consequence, you know, these cases are

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Speaker 8: getting deferred, adjourned, adjourned, adjourned, and it's just calolling up

438
00:19:58,800 --> 00:19:59,520
Speaker 8: the legal system.

439
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,320
Speaker 1: Also, that's exact jail.

440
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 9: I've got more than and it's just a cluster.

441
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 5: It is.

442
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:13,280
Speaker 9: It absolutely is yesterday.

443
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:14,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly right.

444
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,359
Speaker 2: Well, look we will take a really quick break. You

445
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,879
Speaker 2: are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.

446
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:20,840
Speaker 2: It is the week that was. You're listening to the

447
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,560
Speaker 2: week that was. Now, we have just received information that

448
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 2: there are reports of a fire at the what Are school.

449
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:33,320
Speaker 2: We are hearing that there has been well, yeah, so

450
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,320
Speaker 2: there is a that we're being informed that there's been

451
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 2: a fire at the water school with explosions.

452
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,760
Speaker 1: Now we are trying to get some further confirmation on this.

453
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,920
Speaker 2: We've been on the NT incident fire map and there

454
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:47,280
Speaker 2: is a fire, a structure fire in what air opposite

455
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,439
Speaker 2: or just near the police station. We have called the school.

456
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,920
Speaker 2: They say they sent staff home, they and didn't pick

457
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 2: up the kids today. We are of the understanding that

458
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 2: it's a pretty big fire in the training center is

459
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 2: what we are being told. At this point of time

460
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,440
Speaker 2: on the ground, So look, we'll do our best to

461
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,679
Speaker 2: try to get some further detail of exactly what has

462
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,040
Speaker 2: caused that fire. It is still happening now, is what

463
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,679
Speaker 2: we're being told in the community of What Air. So

464
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,440
Speaker 2: I am pleased to hear that the children did not

465
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 2: go to school today by the sounds of it, the

466
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 2: staff have been sent home. So I don't know exactly

467
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 2: what the situation is, but I just hope that everybody

468
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,400
Speaker 2: is safe. That sounds like a frightening situation, particularly at

469
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 2: the school, you know, that's.

470
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 1: Where you lock that.

471
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

472
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 2: I don't even think I need to go into why

473
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 2: that is a frightening situation. I think we can all understand.

474
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,919
Speaker 2: But we're being told no injuries have been reported and

475
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 2: police would advise members of the public to avoid the area.

476
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,120
Speaker 2: That is what they have said. So, yeah, frightening situation.

477
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 2: We know that there has been a lot of unrest

478
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 2: in the community of What Air. I don't want to

479
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 2: speculate in any way that it's been a fire caused

480
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 2: by somebody else when I do not know what the

481
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 2: situation is, but I think I can probably speak for

482
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 2: all of us when I say that the last thing

483
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 2: you want to see is a location like the school

484
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 2: suffering a fire.

485
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 1: So we'll wait and hear just how extensive, no doubt

486
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 1: throughout the morning now, look just taking you across.

487
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 2: There has been so much to cover off on this week,

488
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 2: as there always is, and we know that estimates has

489
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,879
Speaker 2: been continuing in Parliament throughout the week. The Attorney General

490
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 2: obviously in the hot seed. A little earlier in the week,

491
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 2: it was revealed that more than one there's been more

492
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:29,639
Speaker 2: than one hundred victims of crime applications launched on or

493
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 2: before twenty eighteen that still haven't been processed. Now, it's

494
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 2: probably not a huge shock to some of the victims

495
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 2: of crime out there listening this morning, but the Minister

496
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 2: had told estimates one hundred and seventeen victims of crime

497
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 2: applications were outstanding at least well at least six years

498
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 2: after being lodged.

499
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 1: I mean, it's an unbelievable amount of time to be weighed.

500
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 3: It's incredible, And I do want to tell you a story,

501
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 3: k that we spoke about earlier. You know, in Nail

502
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 3: of Springs where I'm from, we've had victims of crime

503
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,680
Speaker 3: that have been coming forward time and time and We've

504
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 3: recently had a business that was broken into that had

505
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 3: five vehicles stolen. One of those cars they were actually

506
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 3: fixing that have been stolen before. And the issue for

507
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 3: that business now, who pays for the excess? Who pays

508
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,879
Speaker 3: for the excess for all those vehicles that were stolen?

509
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 3: Is it their insurance? Is it the individual people's car insurance?

510
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 3: And I think when we talk about victims of crime,

511
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 3: this is exactly the sort of thing that we're talking about,

512
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 3: because my understanding is doesn't cover excess. This is you know,

513
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 3: goes to cover people if they've had their door broken into.

514
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 3: I was unfortunate enough I had my house broken into

515
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 3: at the beginning of the year, and that's what they

516
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 3: talked to you about, Oh we can replace maybe a

517
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 3: door for you, or help you upgrade your security, all

518
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,239
Speaker 3: those sorts of things. And when we're talking about all

519
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,719
Speaker 3: these processes that are in play yet absolutely you know,

520
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 3: still one hundred that are yet to be formalized. These

521
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 3: are people that have been impacted by crime right across

522
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 3: the Northern Territory that unfortunately are no better off as

523
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 3: a result of these sorts of things. Whilst criminals are

524
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:56,959
Speaker 3: let go, they're doing the wrong thing, and in some

525
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:01,239
Speaker 3: cases we've seen detainees of the detentions paid out a

526
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 3: culmative effect of thirty five million.

527
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 2: Well that's where people get really white frostrate when they

528
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 2: think to themselves, hang on a second, I've been a

529
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 2: victim of crime, my business has selferred, might put my

530
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 2: home as selferd, I've lost my car, whatever it may be.

531
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 2: And that's not even to mention people that have been

532
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 2: injured as well through different situations. It's I mean, it's

533
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 2: quite unbelievable that anybody would be waiting that long. Now.

534
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, six years is far too long, Katie, And that's

535
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 7: not okay. And I have no doubt that the Attorney

536
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 7: General has had some really good words with his department

537
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 7: to figure out the way forward to make sure that

538
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 7: all of those outstanding claims get investigated, looked at and

539
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 7: resolved as soon as possible. We hear the impact of

540
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 7: crime every single day. It is the biggest issue impacting territories.

541
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 7: We acknowledge that part of my role as as a

542
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 7: local member and the Minister for Territory Families is looking

543
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 7: at preventing the next generation behaving the same way that

544
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 7: we're seeing now. So strengthening families. We spoke earlier about

545
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 7: behavior change programs. It's supporting people through the systems we

546
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 7: have and the systems we're working to reform to help

547
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 7: them to make better decisions, and then where they choose

548
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 7: not to, it's.

549
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 5: Holding them to account.

550
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 7: Because you know, crime shouldn't be the biggest issue that

551
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 7: we're facing, but unfortunately it is.

552
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 2: It absolutely is, you know, I mean it's something that

553
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 2: we still every day people are contacting us about. We've

554
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 2: had the issue of victims from victims of so from

555
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 2: victims who've been in contact with us, varying levels of

556
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 2: victims of crime, some of them really quite extreme. Who

557
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 2: have you know who have said, look, we have we've

558
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 2: had to wait for an incredibly long period of time

559
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 2: for any kind of assistance.

560
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,959
Speaker 6: So you know, we've got low pressure being no pressure

561
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,719
Speaker 6: has been brought to bear Katie on the agency via

562
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 6: the minister to expedite these bloody claims or whatever it

563
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 6: needs to be done. I mean six years, I mean

564
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 6: half the times people might have left town by that. See,

565
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 6: that's the other thing, like how many are on the

566
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 6: list you know waiting for this, you know, some kind

567
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 6: of reason of.

568
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 3: Government for a long time and that's what's trustrated for

569
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 3: a lot of people out in the community and.

570
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:03,479
Speaker 1: It absolutely needs to be now.

571
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 2: Look, it wasn't the only area where the government's been

572
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 2: questioned throughout the week. We know there's a lot of

573
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 2: different areas where there's been questioning throughout throughout the estimates

574
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 2: process and will continue to be next week as well.

575
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,719
Speaker 2: But there were certainly questions asked of the Chief Minister

576
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 2: earlier in the week about whether money would be repaid

577
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 2: that was spent in the leading to the last Northern

578
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 2: Territory election on travel from the former Chief Minister, Michael Gunner,

579
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 2: following on from the Ikak report. But I mean she

580
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 2: had said it wouldn't be repaid. Look, this whole situation

581
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 2: does not pitches the pub test.

582
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 6: Just abused Michael Gunner and his office leading into the

583
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 6: last election, just basically abused his position of Chief Minister.

584
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 4: In my view, I mean he used the plane. It

585
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 4: was clearly in his diary.

586
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 6: It was clearly signal to all the stuff. Now I'm

587
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 6: going to this community, it's polling day. They tell me

588
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 6: all the people are there at once, and therefore it's

589
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 6: a good time for minister.

590
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,239
Speaker 9: I think that's what I mean.

591
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 8: There was a lot of there are a lot of

592
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 8: people who were upset with that IKAC report because it

593
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 8: didn't make adverse findings. But if you read it either way,

594
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 8: he lays out the facts of what happened. Absolutely damn it.

595
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 8: And it's just absolutely clear what has happened here. I

596
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 8: mean that these trips were even marked in the diary

597
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 8: as polling, you know, I would say polling, miniary, polling,

598
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 8: what air you know? And so the purpose of the

599
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 8: trips is absolutely clear. There is no question about why

600
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 8: they were going to these areas during an election campaign

601
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 8: to coincide with Deirdre Chambers. What a coincidence when the

602
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 8: Electoral Commission was going to be there. So just playing

603
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 8: as the nose on your face. And the decent thing

604
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,719
Speaker 8: to do for the Labor Party to do now is

605
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 8: to repay the money, right, forty thousand dollars of taxpayers money,

606
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 8: you know, give it back, yep, because that is what

607
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 8: people would expect to happen in that situation. You have

608
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 8: used taxpayers money to campaign for political purposes. It's absolutely

609
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 8: as plain as the nose on your face.

610
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 1: Is it going to get repaid?

611
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,479
Speaker 7: No, it won't so there were no adverse findings. It

612
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 7: was investigated by the I KAC. Everybody's had to look

613
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,479
Speaker 7: through that report. All seven recommendations have been endorsed by

614
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 7: my government. But as soon as Chief Minister Eva Laula

615
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 7: took over the role as Chief Minister, the first thing

616
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 7: that Eva did was to make sure that Ministerial Code

617
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 7: of Conduct was all updated.

618
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 5: It was very clear we took on board.

619
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 9: Those money be paid back. Why shouldn't the money be

620
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 9: paid back?

621
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 8: There were no adverse no, But I was just saying,

622
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 8: if you read the report, do you do you think

623
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 8: that what happened there was okay?

624
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 7: I think there were no adverse findings?

625
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 9: Was do you think that what happened there was okay?

626
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 5: I wouldn't have done it.

627
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 9: Okay, So do you think the money should be paid?

628
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 7: I wouldn't have done it. They went back if there

629
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 7: were no adverse findings, if the.

630
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 8: Questions not about the advisis, we've done questions about what

631
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 8: actually happened here. You see, if you've read the report,

632
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 8: you see you know these trips are linked polling me

633
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 8: Mary polling. That's how it's written in the diary. That

634
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 8: is the reason we are going there and you're using

635
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 8: taxpayers money to do it, So why shouldn't Labor pay

636
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 8: that money back to taxpayers given it was it's so

637
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 8: clear from that reports that the money.

638
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 5: I didn't do the trouble.

639
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 7: So maybe that's a question that's best aswer the former

640
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 7: chief minister.

641
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 8: But well, well it's really a question for your party,

642
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 8: and you're a member of that party.

643
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 7: And the answer has been no, we will know because

644
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 7: the adverse findings, and we have taken the steps to ensure.

645
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 9: That this again, and this is where I think.

646
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 7: Training has been done for fifth law ministerial stuff. All

647
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 7: of my staff have gone through us.

648
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 5: We're very clear about what they needed.

649
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 9: To be training clearly something that you haven't.

650
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 3: There, Matt, Exactly.

651
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 7: We take every recommendation on board properly, and our Chief Minister,

652
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 7: Evil Lawless, since coming to that role, has told everybody

653
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 7: very clearly she's about doing things above board properly.

654
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 9: Okay, we're doing things above board.

655
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 8: And probably the easiest way to make it clear that

656
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 8: you were serious about doing things above board and properly

657
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 8: is to pay back the money when you did things

658
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 8: not above board and not properly.

659
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 7: Right, I wouldn't have done it but the IKAK said

660
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 7: that there was no adverse fighting.

661
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 8: And to be clear, he makes the point that he

662
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,239
Speaker 8: couldn't make a finding one way or another, yes, and

663
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 8: so he didn't make an adverse finding. And he said

664
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 8: that that there were intolerable ambiguities or something in the

665
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 8: in the rules. But I mean, I think what's important

666
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 8: here and I think this is where we have to

667
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 8: look at things with the I K.

668
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 9: People are smart enough to make their own decisions.

669
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,479
Speaker 8: Right, Look at Kesier's case, right, so she is found corrupt,

670
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 8: the I cack says she's corrupt, and she gets and

671
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 8: her electors say, I believe you.

672
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're still going to vote for you.

673
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 8: So I mean, I guess it comes to sort of

674
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,719
Speaker 8: a Pubis situation, like you know what, what did punters

675
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 8: actually think about this situation?

676
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 4: Yes?

677
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 8: And I know your average punt is not going to

678
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 8: read an ICIC report, But if you go and look

679
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 8: at the factors they're laid out.

680
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 9: In that ICIC report, well I cannot read it, any

681
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 9: of it.

682
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 2: And I'll tell you right now that the day after

683
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 2: that came out, when we reported it on this show,

684
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 2: people were going off. So listeners were really really angry

685
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 2: and were saying, you know, if we knew that this

686
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 2: stunk when it was happening, it shouldn't have happened in

687
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 2: the first place. It's a gross misuse of territory taxpayers funds.

688
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 2: And I think that, you know, like I think that

689
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 2: this is where sometimes, well a lot of the time,

690
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 2: governments and you know, politicians of all stripes get it

691
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 2: very wrong every day. People are a lot smarter than

692
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 2: what politicians give them credit for. And people can see

693
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 2: what's right and what's wrong. And you know, when you

694
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 2: don't listen to them, when they're telling you what they

695
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 2: believe is right and wrong, that's when you wind up

696
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 2: getting voted out because people have a gut full and

697
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: they think, no, I'm not happy with.

698
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 5: This, Katie.

699
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 6: It's all very well to chuck the gate after the

700
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 6: horse has bolted, yeah, and to do training now to

701
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 6: make sure no one travels when they shouldn't travel in

702
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 6: an election campaign and caretaking out. But come on, the

703
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 6: people in the fifth floor right now are not newbies.

704
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 6: They're not fresh faced people straight out of UNI who

705
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 6: happen to get into a political office.

706
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 4: They know stuff. They've had lots of good mentors past, you.

707
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 6: Know, Labor Party members who've been in Parliament up here,

708
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 6: the Chris Burns, the Paul Henderson's, declare Martins. You know,

709
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 6: they're all out there still in the big wide world,

710
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 6: you know, freely available to give advice. So don't tell me, oh,

711
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 6: we've now changed all the training. The bloody shouldn't have

712
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 6: done it. Michael Gunner's office and the staff whoever arranged

713
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 6: the trips and thought it was an okay thing, they.

714
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 4: Should have their bloody heads.

715
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 6: We read they knew exactly what they're doing using government

716
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 6: money and maybe the Labor Party is not paying that

717
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 6: because I've got no bloody money understanding.

718
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 3: There are further investigations that undergoing that, so you've probably

719
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 3: know more than the idea on this. You've been reading

720
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,239
Speaker 3: and following it very closely. But my understanding is there

721
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 3: will be another report handed.

722
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 4: Down, another report coming in.

723
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 3: It's going to be very interesting as to exactly what

724
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 3: that looks into and whether there are adverse findings. But

725
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 3: the frustration a lot of people have now is we

726
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 3: don't necessarily have the k inspector that was looking into.

727
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: That commission are you okay, Commissioner.

728
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 3: Working on that as we speak, So I think you know,

729
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 3: it's really important this is done in a timely manner

730
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 3: because territories do deserve to know exactly what's been happening here.

731
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 3: The Chief Minister has now changed all the rules because

732
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 3: she believes, you know, what was happening wasn't right. But

733
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 3: like we said, well.

734
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: They're sitting still, Minister.

735
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 2: Look the question I've got at the moment this goes

736
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 2: really for the COLP and for the Labor Party. So

737
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,719
Speaker 2: for both reps here this morning, do are there staff

738
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 2: working on either of your floors at the moment that

739
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 2: are doing jobs for the campaign?

740
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 5: Absolutely not during work hours.

741
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 4: Not my team come out.

742
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 5: They helped me in my electorate after work hours.

743
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 7: They work for weekends as phone banks after hours.

744
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 5: It's all documented. That's part of the process.

745
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 7: And what about the people if they don't have the

746
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 7: labor values and want to see us re elected, Matt,

747
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 7: I don't get it.

748
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 8: Well, you know, necessarily the labor values would be employed

749
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 8: on the fifth flior.

750
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 2: Like I I worked as a ministerial media adviser many

751
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 2: many years ago.

752
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: For Rob Knight.

753
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 3: Floor all the time, and I think.

754
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 2: To myself, do you know what one of the biggest

755
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 2: assets that I had was that I wasn't a labor

756
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 2: true believer.

757
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: So you're actually honest.

758
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 2: With your ministers at different times about what that's right.

759
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 6: I mean, that won't wash n a dead set work

760
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 6: wash because everyone it comes their jobs are on the line.

761
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 4: You know, let's be brutal about this.

762
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 6: Their jobs are on the line, and they're going to

763
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 6: try and help as much as they can within reason.

764
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 6: I believe, to assist the government getting re elected. And

765
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 6: if it was a corp in government, which I reckon,

766
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 6: according to the book, he said it will be after August.

767
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 6: Your odds haven't changed. By the way, there's still a

768
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 6: dollar fifty five to win. Keep an eye on I'm

769
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 6: keeping an eye on it. I'm sure the same woul

770
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 6: happened to the other major parties to the country.

771
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 9: Is just not the truth.

772
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 8: Test of that would be if a ministerial adviser or

773
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 8: a staff for there you just said, no, I'm not

774
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 8: going to stand on the market stare on the weekend.

775
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 8: I'm not going to go on door knock with you

776
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 8: to see whether they still had a job.

777
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 2: Exactly with the CLP, what's the what about you guys?

778
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 2: Have you got people that are working there that.

779
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 3: I can speak from my experience, Katie. I've got two

780
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,479
Speaker 3: incredible ladies in my office at work with me. Neither

781
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 3: of them are members of the CLP, and they work

782
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 3: incredibly hard during the week I have not then had

783
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,919
Speaker 3: them out on the weekend campaigning and doing those sorts

784
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 3: of things. So that's that's what I can comment on

785
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 3: because that's what I deal with day to day. I

786
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 3: can't comment on what other people do, Katie.

787
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 4: I find it.

788
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 6: I find it, and I've made jokes about it on

789
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 6: Labor Party members pages. But that's super humor in it.

790
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 6: That's laughing now is laughing.

791
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 4: Even when I was in the CLP, I door knock

792
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 4: by myself.

793
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 6: You know, I had someone to drive the car because

794
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 6: you can dump out, so you had family or a

795
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 6: friend drive the car, and you did whatever you did.

796
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 6: And when I see the Labor Party, not so much

797
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 6: the CLP, I have to admit, not so much your

798
00:35:58,480 --> 00:35:59,240
Speaker 6: CLP people.

799
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 4: They have like a whole buddy gagla geese with them.

800
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 6: You know, there's one there's the sitting member, and then

801
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 6: they have like twenty other people in red shirts. Like

802
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 6: the person in the house is not seeing them. There

803
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 6: would be member or their local members. They're seeing some staver,

804
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 6: you know, and I just think it's I personally think

805
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 6: it's lazy. I get it, you cover more ground, I

806
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 6: get all that. I get to understand the logic, But

807
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 6: the individuals want to see the member, not some staff

808
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 6: are giving a brochure and chatting to them. But and

809
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 6: I know that they're off the fifth floor, some of them,

810
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 6: because I don't recognize all of them. And they're door

811
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 6: knocking on weekends and after hours all that, you know.

812
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 6: So I think people know out there and they elected,

813
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 6: they are exactly what goes on.

814
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 4: Well that's the thing, that is the thing convinces otherwise.

815
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,399
Speaker 2: Hey, I want to go back to you know, Josh,

816
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 2: you'd raised just a moment ago about the further IKAK

817
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 2: report into politician travel that we are expecting.

818
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: Now.

819
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 2: My understanding is that wasn't going to be made public,

820
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 2: but it is going to be a bit more difficult

821
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 2: to actually see the light of day, potentially at the moment,

822
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,879
Speaker 2: because we know that the ik commissioner currently is on leave,

823
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 2: and that follows the IKAQ Inspector's report into the allegations

824
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 2: that the KAK commissioner paid his former partner twenty thousand

825
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 2: dollars to suppress a domestic violence allegation. Now that report

826
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 2: has been released, the Chief Minister released it earlier in

827
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 2: the week and had and the Inspector had advised that

828
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 2: the allegation that the Commissioner had inproperly offered twenty thousand

829
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 2: dollars to his former wife to suppress an allegation of

830
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,959
Speaker 2: domestic violence made by Miss Jennifer Riches.

831
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: Not to be true.

832
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 2: The Inspector was not able to make a conclusive determination

833
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 2: in relation to the truth of allegations pertaining to the

834
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 2: ikak's former wife's allegations of domestic violence. Mister Riches and

835
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 2: Miss Jennifer Riches, the ikak's former partner, were contacted by

836
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 2: and did make submissions to the Inspector in making these conclusions.

837
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 2: Now the Inspector has concluded that none of the allegations

838
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 2: made against the Commissioner could constitute corrupt conduct under Section

839
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 2: one twenty of the IKAK. The Inspector has also advised

840
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 2: the Chief Minister that these matters are having a damaging

841
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 2: and acute impact on the Commissioner. On Commissioner Rich's health

842
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 2: and as a result, he's not fit to carry out

843
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 2: his duties at this time. So the inspector has advised

844
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 2: the Commissioner will require a period of time to focus

845
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 2: on his health and recovery. Now, obviously I want to

846
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 2: be careful about what we say here, but you know,

847
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,879
Speaker 2: the IKA Commissioner was pretty firm on this right from

848
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 2: the get go in saying that you know that he

849
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 2: had not done anything wrong.

850
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 4: I don't.

851
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 6: There's no winners in this situation, Katie. And that's that's

852
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,760
Speaker 6: the sadness about it all. You know, having having domestic

853
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 6: situation played out in public is not good for anyone. No,

854
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 6: it's partly particularly the people. You know, the people involved.

855
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 6: And you know, I've met the man a few times,

856
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 6: you know, in my work capacity as no he probably has.

857
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 6: You know, he's been very forward in wanting to make

858
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 6: sure MLAs know what he's doing and all that sort

859
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 6: of stuff. He's offered briefings and all that sort of stuff,

860
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 6: and you know, written lots of things. But this is

861
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 6: a domestic situation that got into the public domain. And

862
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 6: I just say, there's no there's no winners out it

863
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 6: on either front.

864
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:09,240
Speaker 1: It truly isn't.

865
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 9: Yeah, I find the whole situation pretty tawdry.

866
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:18,919
Speaker 8: Yeah, and and and said and I mean, if we're

867
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 8: looking at it and people are saying, oh, you know,

868
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 8: he has to go, he has to go, he has

869
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 8: to go. I'm not sure what it is that he

870
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 8: has done that that is leading as to that. He's

871
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 8: not accused of any criminality. And I'm only going on

872
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 8: what I've read and seen in public forums in the media,

873
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 8: but he's not accused of any criminality. His ex wife

874
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 8: says that there was no physical abuse that he has

875
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 8: been accused of. The police are not investigating him.

876
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 9: And then I.

877
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 8: Think, now what we have is sort of a messy

878
00:39:55,120 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 8: marriage breakdown, one side of which his play out in

879
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 8: the public domain. And he's in the unenvi unenviable situation

880
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 8: of having to basically sit there and say nothing because

881
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,439
Speaker 8: you can't really have the IKAK commissioner come out.

882
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 1: And that's exactly right, that's a situation.

883
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 3: And this is the thing the Anti IICAQ was set up.

884
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,240
Speaker 3: This is this is the top office in the Northern

885
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 3: Territory to ensure that there is integrity in government in

886
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 3: offices right across the Northern Territory. And unfortunately, since it's

887
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 3: come there has been scandal after scandal, the former ik

888
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 3: commissioner came out at a rally in Alla Springs and

889
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,320
Speaker 3: made comments.

890
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 4: That he later admitted it happened to him.

891
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 3: Well, for me, it's about integrity. This is so important,

892
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 3: this is so important. Your average Joe blow out there

893
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 3: sees this sort of stuff going and going a pox

894
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 3: on both your houses. So that's what frustrates me so

895
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 3: much in this is that we need to ensure that

896
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,720
Speaker 3: no matter who's there. And mister Riches came in essentially

897
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 3: to reset, reset the IKAQ office, rebuild confidence, rebuild confidence.

898
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: It has to a large degree.

899
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 8: Well, and he's been criticized Katie over the length of

900
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 8: time it took him to produce some of these reports,

901
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 8: in particular the one about Michael Gunner and the travel

902
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 8: during the last election. But you have to understand the

903
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 8: guy basically spent the first two years in office cleaning

904
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 8: up the mess of his predecessor. And I think that

905
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 8: there was I don't think I think there were issues

906
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 8: when it came to appointing the first k commissioner. I

907
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 8: think they really struggled to find someone and you know,

908
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 8: and my understanding is that they then you know, there

909
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 8: was a form of Supreme Court judge says, I know

910
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 8: that this guy in Queensland who's at a loose end,

911
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 8: and we ended up with Ken Fleming, I think we

912
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 8: can all agree was a complete and total disaster. And

913
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 8: the issue Josh speaks about in Alice Springs was just

914
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 8: one issue under his watch as k Commissioner. But I

915
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,959
Speaker 8: think in hindsight that should have been the first red

916
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 8: flag and that really and I had people who were

917
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,399
Speaker 8: well connected in legal circles here who on that very

918
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 8: day were saying he has to go. He has shown

919
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 8: at this point that he is not the right person

920
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 8: for this position.

921
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 3: As a representative in Ala Springs. It was just upsetting

922
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 3: because what you want to do is you want to

923
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 3: be bringing communities together, and that really inflamed a situation

924
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,839
Speaker 3: that was pretty hot. And yeah, it was incredible at

925
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 3: the time. I just remembered.

926
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 8: And then we had a report only a couple of

927
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 8: weeks ago that then he was sitting in meetings demanding

928
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 8: that the police charged Zachary Rolf, which would appear to

929
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 8: me to be a total overreach from his position. We

930
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 8: had issues internal issues with the staff in the office there.

931
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 8: We had hiring of people who in my opinion should

932
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 8: never have been hired in an office that is supposed

933
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 8: to be upholding the integrity of the Northern territory. We

934
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 8: had a series of reports that either had to be

935
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:49,320
Speaker 8: thrown out or were challenged in court or settled, costing

936
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 8: god knows how much money we know.

937
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 3: From previous estimates. There were large times of.

938
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 8: Yeah, and it was just a total debarklay. And what

939
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,240
Speaker 8: concerned me through that period is that no one seem

940
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,320
Speaker 8: to want to do anything about it. No one seemed

941
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 8: to want to fix the mess that had been created.

942
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: It was like, you know, look, we are going to

943
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: have the rabbita very quickly.

944
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 6: I actually think ICCs around the country are not going well.

945
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 6: And even the case recently I think I don't know

946
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 6: the full details, but the robodebt deal there's about nine

947
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,479
Speaker 6: hundred objections because the k found nothing to see here,

948
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 6: so they've had to launch.

949
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 4: Another inquiry in this is the federal This is exactly.

950
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 6: So you know, I think as a as a jurisdiction,

951
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 6: we need to have a good hard look whether this

952
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 6: kind of agency is really what we need into the

953
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 6: future up other agencies.

954
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 2: We are going to have to take a very short break.

955
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 2: You are listening to mix Swallow four nine's three sixty.

956
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 2: It is the week that was very keen to get

957
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 2: everybody's take on the proposed Cyclone Tracy monument. Now, it's

958
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,720
Speaker 2: a kinetic sculpture. Let's going to move with the wind.

959
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 1: It's built with materials that can withstand all weather.

960
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 4: Kendishes with a little help of a bull bar.

961
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: There has easier.

962
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 2: I'm not it's body seven hundred thousand dollars worth.

963
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 6: The artist has got one hundred thousand doesn't mean the

964
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 6: sculptures worth that.

965
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 2: It's going to cost seven hundred thousand dollars, with the

966
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 2: federal government contributing three hundred thousand. It's set to be

967
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 2: installed at Bundilla Beach, which was deemed the most appropriate

968
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 2: location as the path of Cyclone Tracy crossed just north

969
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 2: of Fanny Bay at three point thirty a am on

970
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 2: Christmas date. Now, look, it would be funny if it

971
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 2: wasn't so serious in the sense that Cyclone Tracy means,

972
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:29,240
Speaker 2: you know, like the history of Darwin and Cyclone Tracy

973
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 2: and the number of people that live here that live

974
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 2: through Cyclone Tracy is just phenomenal.

975
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 6: Katie, a long time ago statistician I can't think of you,

976
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 6: sir and Peter. He did an analysis the number of

977
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,800
Speaker 6: people who are here in Darwn now, and this is

978
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 6: going back about five or ten years. He told me this,

979
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 6: the number of people who are here in darn Now

980
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 6: who were here for cyclone Tracy is as low as

981
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:52,720
Speaker 6: five percent, if not lower.

982
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 4: Narri and I were both here. If Narrie was a baby, no, I.

983
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 5: Was still four years in the making.

984
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 4: That ah four years in the making here. I was here.

985
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 4: I was sixteen.

986
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 6: So the number of people that were here is very

987
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 6: very low. And I still to this day, I mean

988
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 6: it's fifty years.

989
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 4: I still to this day get asked were you here

990
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 4: for cyclone Tracy? For people around the country. So it

991
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 4: is still in people's eyes.

992
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 6: And it was the single it was the single most

993
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 6: money raised for a disaster in our country and at

994
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 6: the time public around the country it was thirteen million.

995
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 4: Now, that was in nineteen seventy five. Thirteen million was

996
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 4: raised by the generous. It came up here.

997
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 6: I don't know where it come in to, you know so,

998
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 6: but in the minds of many a few of my constituents,

999
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 6: the old families, they are still traumatized by it.

1000
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 4: I can say right now. So I'm mid.

1001
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 6: Sixties, so people who probably fifties to seventies whatever. My

1002
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 6: mum's still around and I remember the nuddles missus Douddle.

1003
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 6: I think she's passed away from now. She said she

1004
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 6: used to religiously watch the weather every night on the TV.

1005
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 5: It doesn't matter.

1006
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 4: It was the dry season. Also had to make sure

1007
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 4: that no cyclone was coming.

1008
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 3: It's important it's recognized and remembered appropriate.

1009
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 4: As some people think, not of some bloody wind structure.

1010
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 2: Look, I get them pression that it is just part

1011
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:03,280
Speaker 2: of what is being planned.

1012
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: But that's true. But people are not happy about this.

1013
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 2: Like honestly, we've had like there has been hundreds and

1014
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 2: hundreds of people get in contact with us on this.

1015
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,280
Speaker 1: People are actually quite furious.

1016
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 2: So I've seen, you know, Combat Scarlat's face photoshopped to

1017
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 2: the kinetic balls or whatever they're called on the display. Like,

1018
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 2: people are quite furious about it. They want something that is,

1019
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 2: but it's much more fitting.

1020
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 6: It's yeah, whatever that is, but it's not from what

1021
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,280
Speaker 6: I've seen and read, it's not even that original because

1022
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 6: all his sculptures are very similar. Yeah, maybe that's his thing.

1023
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:37,919
Speaker 4: I get it. That's his thing. Yep.

1024
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 6: You know, they're just vary in the number of bulls

1025
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,279
Speaker 6: and the shade of the bulls, you know, but one

1026
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 6: one in act I believe in there elsewhere and that's fine.

1027
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 1: Look subjective, we get that, right. Some people might love it,

1028
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: some people might not. But I think it's it is well,

1029
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 1: I know, but it's very different to what people have

1030
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 1: been expecting.

1031
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 7: Right Yeah, Katie, I'm not a fan at all. And

1032
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 7: when I looked at it to hear it with the

1033
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 7: wilderment in my voice right now, I'm still confused. I

1034
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 7: don't know how I'm supposed to tell my nieces and

1035
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 7: nephews to explain what it is and how it's, you know,

1036
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 7: signifies that historic event that my dad survived, and like

1037
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 7: Easier said, like my dad was one of many. As

1038
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:17,439
Speaker 7: soon as there was a cyclone, watch not a warning.

1039
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 7: It was packed up, tape up your windows and get

1040
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 7: out of Darwin like and that that.

1041
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 5: Trauma stayed with him.

1042
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 7: And so I was really looking forward to counsel announcing

1043
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 7: this this beautiful healing space where families could go down

1044
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 7: and maybe pluques with names of survivors somewhere that we

1045
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 7: could be proud of. I couldn't even convince a bunch

1046
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:37,760
Speaker 7: of tourists to go down and see what I thought

1047
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 7: was a mango filopian sche black.

1048
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 4: I just don't get it exactly.

1049
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: It doesn't like that.

1050
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 9: Doesn't it. Your lack of culture come out.

1051
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 4: I tell you what I reckon a bush bullbar would look.

1052
00:47:57,680 --> 00:47:58,479
Speaker 4: I mean, not the sous.

1053
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 6: We shouldn't take doctor suits pressing.

1054
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 3: Great stories about people coming together during that time to

1055
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 3: support their fellow you know person, they're feel the human being.

1056
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 3: Let's get something like that, the.

1057
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 6: Longest distance flying in the wardrobe and they got knocked

1058
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 6: back by Guinness Book of Records because there was no witnesses.

1059
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, true story.

1060
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 5: We are going to have to wrap up.

1061
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 2: Thank you all so much for your company this morning.

1062
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 2: Josh burgoing, thank you so much for joining us. Matt Cunningham,

1063
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 2: Thanks mate, Kezier parents than you and NURRII are kids.

1064
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1065
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 5: Thanks Katie,