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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcottin woman from Gadigl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Ods. Happy Friday

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Speaker 2: and Zara, Happy Random Acts of Kindness.

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Speaker 3: Day, our favorite day of the year.

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Speaker 2: It is the seventeenth of February. I'm Sam, I'm Zara.

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Speaker 2: The end of last year saw global tech companies struggling.

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Speaker 2: One hundred and fifty thousand tech workers have been laid

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Speaker 2: off in twenty twenty two alone. The twenty twenty three

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Speaker 2: shows no signs of slowing down. The job cuts in

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Speaker 2: big tech are piling up. Online retailer Amazon has confirmed

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Speaker 2: a coming round of mass layers. Entering the list of

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Speaker 2: companies cutting off jobs is Spotify Microsoft, who slashes six

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Speaker 2: percent of its work. For today, it's laying off ten.

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Speaker 3: Eight hundred employees.

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Speaker 2: So what's the latest in tech layoffs and why is

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Speaker 2: it happening. We'll let you know in the deep dive.

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Speaker 2: But first, Sarah, what is making headlines this morning?

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Speaker 3: The Federal government to release the findings of a new

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Speaker 3: privacy report, and it's recommended allowing ozzie's to know what

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Speaker 3: personal information of theirs is online and to have their

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Speaker 3: information deleted. Being able to opt out of targeted advertising

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Speaker 3: was also proposed in the review, which was aimed at

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Speaker 3: strengthening individual protection and control over information.

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Speaker 2: A Queensland woman has been jailed for nine years after

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Speaker 2: leaving her two children to die in an overheated car

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Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen. Kerry Anne Conley pleaded guilty to the

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Speaker 2: two man's laugh the charges this week, with Justice Peter

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Speaker 2: Applegarth telling Conley, she, as her children's sole custodian at

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Speaker 2: the time, had displayed quote gross criminal neglect.

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Speaker 3: The search for Scotland's new leader is now underway after

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Speaker 3: a longtime first minister, so that's the leader there in Scotland.

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Speaker 3: Nicholas Sturgeon announced her resignation earlier this week. Sturgeon will

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Speaker 3: remain as a Scottish National Party's leader until her successor

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Speaker 3: is found.

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Speaker 2: And today's good news. I think this story has led Zara.

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Speaker 2: Three spider species previously unknown to science have been discovered

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Speaker 2: in Australia's Alpine region during an eleven day research expedition.

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Speaker 2: The species include a warrior huntsman, a tiny jumping spider,

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Speaker 2: and a wraparound spider. Environment Minister Tanian Piversec said the

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Speaker 2: discovery would help provide quote a deeper understanding of Australian habitats.

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Speaker 3: I've simply never heard of worse good news in my life.

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Speaker 2: Ncy Wincy. One hundred and five thousand people have been

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Speaker 2: laid off from tech companies since the beginning of the year,

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Speaker 2: after over one hundred and sixty thousand people were laid

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Speaker 2: off last year.

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Speaker 3: Sorry for the whole of last year, it was one

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Speaker 3: hundred and sixty thousand. And we're two months into twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty three and it's already one hundred and five thousand.

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Speaker 2: It's looking like a rough year for tech. Every single

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Speaker 2: day there seems to be another tech layoff in the news.

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Speaker 3: There has been, and I think, like with many other

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Speaker 3: topics that we talk about today, it can kind of

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Speaker 3: feel very decentralized and very chaotic when you hear about

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Speaker 3: one company after another each day in the news, So

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Speaker 3: I kind of just want to bring it all together

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Speaker 3: and sam get a bit of an idea, a general

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Speaker 3: picture of what we're looking at with these mass layoffs,

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Speaker 3: especially in tech.

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Speaker 2: This most recent period of tech layoffs feels like it

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Speaker 2: started with news about Elon Musk making cuts at Twitter

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Speaker 2: at the end of last year. You'll remember that chaotic episode.

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Speaker 2: We were almost reporting on Elon every single day. Around

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Speaker 2: that time, we heard reports that roughly half the company's

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Speaker 2: workforce had been sacked. Not even a week later, Meta,

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Speaker 2: who's the owner of Facebook and Instagram, sacks thirteen percent

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Speaker 2: of its staff, So we're talking there about eleven thousand people,

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Speaker 2: and the layoffs have not slowed down. We heard that

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Speaker 2: Amazon would be laying off about five percent of its workforce.

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Speaker 2: That's eighteen thousand employees.

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Speaker 3: Imagine five percent of your workforce.

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Speaker 2: That's a big group of people, and that's a lot

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Speaker 2: of people to sack all at once. Google's parent company,

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Speaker 2: Alphabet announced they were planning to cut twelve thousand jobs.

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Speaker 2: We've also heard about layoffs at Microsoft, Spotify, and Zoom.

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Speaker 2: But I think it's important to acknowledge that this isn't

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Speaker 2: unique to the US. Closer to home, We have heard

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Speaker 2: in the last week or so that Australian delivery service

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Speaker 2: Milk Run told staff this week it will cut twenty

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Speaker 2: percent of its workforce, but it's not quite immediately clear

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Speaker 2: how many employees they have at present. Then we heard

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Speaker 2: yesterday KPMG announced they would be laying off seven hundred staff,

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Speaker 2: two hundred of whom are in Australia.

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Speaker 3: We'll be back right after this. You and I run

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Speaker 3: a business, and it feels like the first question people

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Speaker 3: ask us right now is are you scared about what's coming?

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Speaker 3: You know, we've raised money from investors. It's something that

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Speaker 3: we're acutely aware of. Can you just explain for people

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Speaker 3: that might not be as intimately involved, what's actually happening

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Speaker 3: out there, especially in tech?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think we're seeing this massive dip from the

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Speaker 2: sugar high for a lot of these companies that was

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Speaker 2: presented by COVID. Like if we take Amazon for example,

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Speaker 2: we were all online shopping and we're all stuck at

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Speaker 2: home spending a lot of money online and now we're

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Speaker 2: back in the real world. So it's funny.

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Speaker 3: We don't often talk about the upside of COVID. I mean,

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Speaker 3: there were so many downsides we were locked in homes.

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Speaker 3: Of course they're horrendous death rate and the rest, But

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Speaker 3: there was actually a huge uptick for a lot of companies.

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Speaker 2: People made a lot of money. Look at companies like Netflix,

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Speaker 2: they saw crazy amounts of subscriptions. A company like Zoom

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Speaker 2: is a really interesting one. We all paid for Zoom

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Speaker 2: in our workplaces, and now we're back in the offices,

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Speaker 2: so I can understand why they are making less money

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Speaker 2: than they did in the middle of the pandemic. And

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Speaker 2: a lot of the companies that we're talking about here

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Speaker 2: today really hired aggressively during the pandemic.

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Speaker 3: There was to meet that demand.

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Speaker 2: It was really hard to actually find talent during the

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Speaker 2: pandemic because everyone had a job, they were earning a

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Speaker 2: lot of money, and they didn't want to leave. But

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Speaker 2: then a few things happened. The first is that lockdown's

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Speaker 2: ended and things more or less returned to normal, and

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Speaker 2: that meant that the demand for all things tech did slow.

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously we still use tech every day, but

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Speaker 2: not as intensely as we did for two years inside.

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Speaker 3: When we can go to the stores and buy things for.

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Speaker 2: Ourself exactly, So let me kind of frame it like this.

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Speaker 2: The combined value of the five biggest tech companies in

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Speaker 2: the world, so Alphabet, Amazon, Apple, Meta, and Microsoft, fell

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Speaker 2: collectively by nearly three point seven trillion US dollars last year.

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Speaker 2: When Google's CEO wrote to employees telling them that they'd

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Speaker 2: been sacked, he wrote that they hired for a different

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Speaker 2: economic reality than the one they face today. And one

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Speaker 2: of the other dimensions to that reality is that everything's

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Speaker 2: more expensive. And we've talked about this on the pod.

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Speaker 2: Tom likes to come on and talk about this on

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Speaker 2: the pod. We've seen a rise of inflation, climbing interest rates,

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Speaker 2: prices of things arising, and that impacts businesses because their

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Speaker 2: products cost more to produce. But it also interestingly makes

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Speaker 2: it more expensive for businesses to borrow money. And I

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Speaker 2: think it's really important to see on that point for

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Speaker 2: a minute, because in tech land, borrowing money is a

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Speaker 2: really important part of aggressively growing a business for businesses

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Speaker 2: which might not make money from customers straight away. Now,

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Speaker 2: in light of all of this, it seems like layoffs

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Speaker 2: are the one thing businesses can do and they can

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Speaker 2: have control over. It helps them save cash because they

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Speaker 2: don't have to pay as many people a salary, but

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Speaker 2: it also makes them appear more profitable because they're banking

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Speaker 2: more than they're spending. It also sends a really strong

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Speaker 2: message to their investors that they're taking this situation really

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Speaker 2: seriously and they're totally prepared for dark times ahead.

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Speaker 3: You said there to signal to investors. And I think

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Speaker 3: one of the things that we hear a lot about

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Speaker 3: is this idea of valuations. The fact that a lot

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Speaker 3: of tech companies, especially here in Australia, actually raised at

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Speaker 3: these crazy valuations that they're no longer being benchmarked against.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, and that's making them really have to scrutinize their

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Speaker 2: own numbers.

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Speaker 3: Wait, what's a valuation for anyone listening.

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Speaker 2: Evaluation is the value of a company that an an

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Speaker 2: investor and a company agree on when the investor gives

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Speaker 2: money in exchange for stocks, and that valuation is sometimes

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Speaker 2: loosely based on numbers. But what we've learned over the

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Speaker 2: kind of tech boom of the pandemic is that they're

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Speaker 2: also based on hype. They're based on competitor analysis, they're

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Speaker 2: based on promises of future forecasts that say that the

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Speaker 2: growth at the rate of the pandemic is going to continue.

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Speaker 2: For years and years to come, and so as a result,

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Speaker 2: investors aren't really willing to accept those valuations anymore.

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Speaker 3: The hype has gone, that uput ofm is.

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Speaker 2: Gone, exactly money left with And it's really tricky for

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Speaker 2: us in the media because companies aren't always forthcoming with

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Speaker 2: their valuations. But we can tell kind of the value

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Speaker 2: by how much they raise. So if you look at

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Speaker 2: a company like milk Run, for example, in twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 2: they raise seventy five million dollars at a high valuation,

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Speaker 2: and we again don't know the exact valuation, but it's

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Speaker 2: clear that by raising that much money and giving away

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Speaker 2: not a lot of the company, it was a lot.

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Speaker 2: Now the company is struggling to raise any money at all,

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Speaker 2: and so that really, to me, symbolizes that the tone

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Speaker 2: of investors has changed. And because raising money is much harder,

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Speaker 2: businesses have to look inwards, and one of the ways

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Speaker 2: they look inwards is cutting people.

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Speaker 3: What of the other questions we always get asked after

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Speaker 3: how does the daily oos make money, is are you

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Speaker 3: worried about going into recession and how will you survive that?

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Speaker 3: Obviously those fears are very real, especially when we look

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Speaker 3: at how many layoffs there have been and kind of

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Speaker 3: the state of the in general. Do you see these

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Speaker 3: layoffs as a sign of that happening.

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Speaker 2: It's a tricky one to answer. Why don't we just

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Speaker 2: quickly go over what a recession is? So basically, a

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Speaker 2: recession is when GDP or economic activity declines for six

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Speaker 2: months in a row. The last time we had the

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Speaker 2: global recession was because of the pandemic in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: How could we forget If we have another one now,

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Speaker 2: it will be the first time since the Great Depression

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Speaker 2: that we would have had two recessions in a decade.

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Speaker 2: So that's some pretty rough times. Yeah, the World Bank

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Speaker 2: has given a warning and they've said that we are

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Speaker 2: extremely close to a global recession, and they say that's

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Speaker 2: partially due to interest rates.

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Speaker 3: So thank you for a politician's answer providing me with

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Speaker 3: an explanation of everything except what I asked. Are we

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Speaker 3: heading into a recession?

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Speaker 2: Well? I don't hold a crystal ball, and no one

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Speaker 2: knows exactly what's going to happen, But I think we

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Speaker 2: can look at some cold hard numbers and redundancies in

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Speaker 2: major companies. Planning for the future shows me that much

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Speaker 2: smarter people than myself in those companies responsible for a

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Speaker 2: lot of moneyning for a big storm ahead, and so

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Speaker 2: you have to think that amongst all the different companies,

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Speaker 2: clearly with a pattern of reducing their staff, that it's

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Speaker 2: going to be a tough year economically. We do have

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Speaker 2: an alternate point of view from the Federal Treasurer Jim Chalmers.

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Speaker 2: He says that Australia might have avoided the worst of

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Speaker 2: an economic downturn, but really only time will tell.

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Speaker 3: I think a good note to end on there is

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Speaker 3: that while we talk about these numbers of layoffs and

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Speaker 3: employment rates and the like, behind these numbers are people

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Speaker 3: who have livelihoods that they've now lost. And that is

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Speaker 3: an incredibly stressful position to be in, especially in an

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Speaker 3: economic environment that is seeing cost of living going up,

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Speaker 3: housing become utterly inaccessible. And so I guess when reading

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Speaker 3: these sorts of stories, or when listening to these sorts

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Speaker 3: of stories, it's always good to remember the human story

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Speaker 3: behind the numbers.

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Speaker 2: It's a little hard to kind of move to the

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Speaker 2: theme of the day from that, but perhaps in another

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Speaker 2: way it's actually not because today is random acts of

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Speaker 2: this day, so it might be one of those days

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Speaker 2: to reach out to the person who knows had a

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Speaker 2: rough time in their jobs in the last couple of months,

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Speaker 2: and so at TDA we wanted to do our own

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Speaker 2: little thing, and that's two fun giveaways on our Instagram feed. Today.

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Speaker 2: We've partnered up with Boost and Messina and there's going

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Speaker 2: to be one hundred winners all up, and I definitely

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Speaker 2: feel like it's one of those times where if you

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Speaker 2: say to yourself, I never win anything, today could be

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Speaker 2: the time that you actually do.

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Speaker 3: I have literally never won anything in my whole life,

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Speaker 3: but having one hundred chances to win does feel like

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Speaker 3: I might get there. All you have to do to

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Speaker 3: enter is tag a friend in the comment section. There

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Speaker 3: are no strings attached. We are not being paid for this.

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Speaker 3: We're just trying to be random and kind.

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Speaker 2: So I hope you win either a Boost juice or

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Speaker 2: a scoop of ice cream from Messina, have a wonderful

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Speaker 2: random act of kindness day, and we'll speak to you

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Speaker 2: on Monday morning.