Speaker 1: Picture this. You've dedicated your life to performing, You've spent
Speaker 1: countless thousands of hours in dance classes, sessions with vocal coaches,
Speaker 1: doing scriptwork, and finally, finally you win Australian theatre's most
Speaker 1: prestigious award. What do you do next, Well, if you're
Speaker 1: Elise McCann, you do what's totally illogical and start a
Speaker 1: tech company. Elise is one of Australia's top performers. She's
Speaker 1: a singer, a dancer, an actor and a producer and
Speaker 1: now she's also the co founder of wellness app hey Lemonade,
Speaker 1: which delivers three minute pep talks from famous Australian voices,
Speaker 1: which she started with fellow entertainer Lucy Durak. So how
Speaker 1: does she hold together more jobs than you can count
Speaker 1: on one hand? Well, I can tell you right now
Speaker 1: that Alice thinks a lot about how she works, and
Speaker 1: after having researched her ways of working prior to our chat,
Speaker 1: I went into this interview thinking I was about to
Speaker 1: meet my kindred spirit of productivity nerdiness. My name is
Speaker 1: doctor amanthe Immer. I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder
Speaker 1: of Behavioral Science Consultancy Inventium and this is how I
Speaker 1: work a show about how to help you do your
Speaker 1: best work. Now, the obvious question I had for a
Speaker 1: lease to start with is how does an award winning
Speaker 1: musical theater star end up starting a tech company.
Speaker 2: It was a product of naivety.
Speaker 3: I think Lucy Jreck and I had obviously been friends
Speaker 3: for many years. We actually met in a dance class
Speaker 3: back when I was seventeen or something like that. Lucy
Speaker 3: was in the cast of Mum and Bea. I was
Speaker 3: studying at NAIDA and I was watching her on stage
Speaker 3: night and I just remember thinking she was amazing. And
Speaker 3: we met in this dance class and we became friends,
Speaker 3: and we've stayed friends over the years. And you know,
Speaker 3: we'd often go for walks because I love a walk
Speaker 3: any time I can kind of multitask, including exercise and
Speaker 3: talking to someone. And during COVID, we both obviously had
Speaker 3: been the arts had been hit hugely, and Loose and
Speaker 3: I particularly were going through some tough times. Loose had
Speaker 3: been playing Princess Fiona in Shrek the Musical, and I
Speaker 3: was living in New York and I was working with
Speaker 3: Sarah Jessica Parker's production company and just it was having
Speaker 3: a great time over there, and then COVID happened and
Speaker 3: we came back and everything disappeared. And both of us
Speaker 3: we're really resilient, optimistic people, but I think that we
Speaker 3: had that thing where you started to think, Wow, I
Speaker 3: don't know what the next chapter will look like. When
Speaker 3: you can't envision what's going to happen next, there is
Speaker 3: a different sense of kind of you know, stress or
Speaker 3: a little bit of doubt that comes in. And so
Speaker 3: we both actually did some meditation apps. There was this
Speaker 3: amazing Deepak Chopra meditation program that was going around and
Speaker 3: we both had ended up doing it, and both of
Speaker 3: us had a similar experience where we felt like we
Speaker 3: weren't doing it right. Loose was always you know, like
Speaker 3: changing Teddy her son's nappy whilst trying to do the
Speaker 3: listen to the meditation because she just never had time
Speaker 3: on her own, and she's like, ah, I can't do
Speaker 3: this with my eyes closed. I can't stick for twenty minutes.
Speaker 3: And I was the same. I was always like, my
Speaker 3: brain is constantly thinking ahead, you know, I produced as
Speaker 3: well as act, and my brain's always thinking of the
Speaker 3: next spot fire. And I was finding it really hard
Speaker 3: to turn my brain off, and I was like, am
Speaker 3: I doing this right? Like I don't know if I'm
Speaker 3: doing this right? And often, yeah, sometimes we didn't like
Speaker 3: the voice of the person.
Speaker 2: And so there were a whole bunch of things.
Speaker 3: And we went for a walk and we're having a
Speaker 3: chat and Loose was like, this is what I need,
Speaker 3: a chat with a friend and I was like, yes.
Speaker 2: We should make that.
Speaker 3: And we just naively were like, great, let's let's let's
Speaker 3: see if there's an if anything like that is out there.
Speaker 3: And so we looked all, you know, across the app
Speaker 3: stores and we couldn't find anything. And we thought, oh,
Speaker 3: we'll just make it. And so because neither of us
Speaker 3: had ever done anything like this, we just thought it'll
Speaker 3: be fine. And I think that's actually what made it happen.
Speaker 2: Two things.
Speaker 3: One not having any concept really of what was involved.
Speaker 3: And both of us are very asque culture people. We're
Speaker 3: very like yes and you say yes before you say no,
Speaker 3: and you figure out how to do it, rather than
Speaker 3: you know, stopping something before you figure out how.
Speaker 1: To do it.
Speaker 3: And so we just said about trying and that and
Speaker 3: also I think the fact that yeah, yeah, we just
Speaker 3: didn't know how hard it would be.
Speaker 1: I remember going on a walk with one of your
Speaker 1: other co founders, the other Lucy Lucy Cochrane, Yes, and
Speaker 1: she was telling me, Yeah, she was telling me how
Speaker 1: you got a meeting with Alan Joyce, which blew my mind.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me how like we get in the room,
Speaker 1: how two performers who've just started this tech company but
Speaker 1: it hasn't yet launched, getting meeting with Alan Joyce to
Speaker 1: do work at Quantas.
Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, it's ridiculous and phenomenal. We've been very lucky
Speaker 2: we have.
Speaker 3: We've had we're able to be in the room with
Speaker 3: Alan Joyce and Rob Marcalino, who was the head of
Speaker 3: people in HR at Quantas. We've also done the same
Speaker 3: with We did the same with Craig Drummond at Medibank,
Speaker 3: and with Jean Pratt and the team USY. We've been
Speaker 3: so lucky to get into amazing rooms. And part of that, honestly, one,
Speaker 3: we have some amazing business mentors and investors that you know,
Speaker 3: people in that world and believe in us in the product.
Speaker 3: But two, because Louisa and I have worked in the
Speaker 3: entertainment industry, Lucy Jurak and I've worked in the entertainment
Speaker 3: industry for so long. We know really interesting different groups
Speaker 3: of people from when they come to see the show.
Speaker 3: And I think there is like, and I don't want
Speaker 3: to say it too loud in case the magic wears off,
Speaker 3: but I think there's like some little bit of luck
Speaker 3: magic that we have where someone has seen you on
Speaker 3: Stay and they think, oh wow, that's kind of a
Speaker 3: bit cool, and so they want to meet you, and
Speaker 3: so they let you come into the room. And I
Speaker 3: think often we'll you know, we get in the room
Speaker 3: where it happens for Hamilton reference if anyone loves a musical.
Speaker 1: And decided thank you, thank you too.
Speaker 3: And so you know, we've been we've been very dedicated
Speaker 3: to make sure that if we get in the room,
Speaker 3: we're really prepared, because you don't want to squander that opportunity,
Speaker 3: because as you said, it's like it's so rare. But thankfully,
Speaker 3: you know, these wonderful people who've been intrigued by us
Speaker 3: and then have been able to kind of hear about
Speaker 3: our product and have liked it, and so now we're
Speaker 3: getting to yeah, develop branches of it for them.
Speaker 1: How did you prepare for the meeting with Alan.
Speaker 3: We basically wrote a script and we we then we
Speaker 3: then allocated out the script, and then we used what
Speaker 3: we use for our when we learn scripts for TV
Speaker 3: shows or for acting, and we use this thing called
Speaker 3: line learner. So we both together recorded the script into
Speaker 3: line learner and then you can mute the other person.
Speaker 3: Because Lucy has been living in Melbourne and I live
Speaker 3: in Sydney most of the time, so we're not always
Speaker 3: in the same city, and so we just like rehearse
Speaker 3: with the other person in our ear but using line learner,
Speaker 3: just so that we kind of had our script and
Speaker 3: our pitch down, and we put together a whole presentation.
Speaker 2: And decks and slides.
Speaker 3: And I love graphics and I love color anything that
Speaker 3: kind of helps my brain catalog things, and so we
Speaker 3: made up a huge deck and a huge slide, and
Speaker 3: we did some mock pitches. We did some mock pittures
Speaker 3: with Lucy Cochran and with one of our investors, and.
Speaker 2: Then we just kind of gave it a go and
Speaker 2: it went really well. Go figure, I'd love that.
Speaker 1: You wrote a script and you learned the script. How like,
Speaker 1: where do you even start to with the script writing
Speaker 1: process for a business? Meeting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, it sounds so silly.
Speaker 3: We basically wanted to have had every We wanted to
Speaker 3: know everything that we wanted to say and find a
Speaker 3: way to say it as condensedly as possible. And so
Speaker 3: we thought, let's write that out and then just refine it,
Speaker 3: refine it, refine it, refine it, and make sure it
Speaker 3: was under ten minutes, because we did know how much
Speaker 3: time we'd have with him, and so we thought, okay,
Speaker 3: if we can make this under ten minutes, then we
Speaker 3: also have time to field questions, to just banter back
Speaker 3: and forth. But worst case, if they're just going to
Speaker 3: come in and sit and give us nothing, we know
Speaker 3: that we can get in and get out. And so
Speaker 3: so that's what we did. Yeah, we kind of wrote
Speaker 3: everything that we'd ever want to say, which is what
Speaker 3: I used to do with essays as a teenager because
Speaker 3: I'm such a nerd, And then I'd write everything I
Speaker 3: wanted and then you'd just you know, whittle it back
Speaker 3: to the bare bones. And in doing so, because Louse
Speaker 3: and I obviously like learned scripts all the time. Our
Speaker 3: brains are quite good at learning scripts. And so then
Speaker 3: when someone asks you a question, if it kind of
Speaker 3: ties into a section of the script that you were
Speaker 3: going to talk about. You can kind of respond that
Speaker 3: way but still make it really natural. And I think
Speaker 3: that that helped us because I don't know if they
Speaker 3: know that we made a script. If you're listening, Alan,
Speaker 3: there was no script, this didn't happen. But yeah, so
Speaker 3: I don't know if I don't think they realized that
Speaker 3: we were, you know, essentially giving them a script, but
Speaker 3: we did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's your process for learning?
Speaker 3: As for me, it's repetition, but actually you know what, No,
Speaker 3: it's it's a compilation of repetition, so just saying it
Speaker 3: a few times, but it's actually connecting it with normally
Speaker 3: if you're doing in it as an actor, connecting it
Speaker 3: with like an intention of the character, and thinking about
Speaker 3: it as listening to what the other person was saying.
Speaker 3: So we always try and if someone asks a question,
Speaker 3: think of it as what would I say? How would
Speaker 3: I respond to that question? And really think as you
Speaker 3: would as a human because we respond to questions all
Speaker 3: the time, so why would we not do it the
Speaker 3: same way when you're doing a script. So in terms
Speaker 3: of this, we we tried to like have each other
Speaker 3: kind of jumping just towards the end of someone's thoughts.
Speaker 3: So it felt like it continued on and we had
Speaker 3: little moments where we'd always script it, even for some
Speaker 3: forward loose to jump in. Like that was your section
Speaker 3: where we talk about the difference between meditation and motivation applications,
Speaker 3: and we talked about how the meditation field is crowded
Speaker 3: and there are you know, a number of apps on
Speaker 3: the market and they're wonderful what they do, but it
Speaker 3: requires consistent practice and sometimes many people are even triggered
Speaker 3: by motivational you know, the words meditation or motivation, and
Speaker 3: like Lucy would jump in and go and sometimes people
Speaker 3: are triggered by the words motivation or meditation.
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, so we just.
Speaker 3: Kind of like it was so it sounds so silly
Speaker 3: now I'm saying about loud, but it really worked, and
Speaker 3: it meant that it came across. It meant that we
Speaker 3: knew that we we knew what we wanted to say,
Speaker 3: We knew that we had the language, and that we
Speaker 3: could just relax and we could just deliver it if
Speaker 3: that was all we were going to get the opportunity
Speaker 3: to do. But otherwise, yeah, like I said, riff off
Speaker 3: it and so but we did we programmed in little
Speaker 3: moments to like jump in on each other, which is
Speaker 3: also I think useful because then you're not just trying
Speaker 3: to remember large blocks, like it becomes a conversation.
Speaker 2: And that makes it way easier.
Speaker 1: In terms of your career as an entertainer. And you
Speaker 1: know where I've seen you on stages is Miss Honey
Speaker 1: and Matilda, and you were amazing and you won a
Speaker 1: lot of awards for that role, such as the Helpman Award,
Speaker 1: which is like that's like the Oscars of Australian Theater,
Speaker 1: I guess exactly for people that don't know that those awards,
Speaker 1: like what happens after you win all those awards? Do
Speaker 1: you still have to audition for things?
Speaker 3: That's a great question, and you know what, sometimes you do. Yes,
Speaker 3: definitely I still audition for things all the time. But
Speaker 3: you do sometimes have people just offer you things, and
Speaker 3: that's amazing, Like that's kind of where you go, this
Speaker 3: is the dream.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3: You know, look, I actually quite like auditioning because I
Speaker 3: like getting to play a part that for me, I
Speaker 3: try and go in and think this is my part
Speaker 3: for these seven minutes, like this is me, this is
Speaker 3: my version, and hope you like it, basically, but it
Speaker 3: can often be the only time you ever really get
Speaker 3: to sing certain material or do a scene, you know,
Speaker 3: because unless you're the one person chosen for the role,
Speaker 3: you're not necessarily ever gonna sing that song or.
Speaker 2: Do that scene. So I don't mind auditioning.
Speaker 1: When you do have to audition, How do you prepare
Speaker 1: for an audition?
Speaker 3: Honestly, it depends on the part, and it depends on
Speaker 3: the medium. So if you're auditioning for a musical, then
Speaker 3: you have to prepare three disciplines really, So if the
Speaker 3: show is a dance show, you might need to tap dance,
Speaker 3: or it might be more of a hip hop kind
Speaker 3: of show, or it might be a bit more of
Speaker 3: a classic Broadway show. So most of the time you
Speaker 3: want to make sure you're go into a dance class
Speaker 3: to kind of at least brush up if you haven't
Speaker 3: been a really diligent person who's always going to dance class,
Speaker 3: which is what we should all be. But if you're
Speaker 3: not that person me, then you go to a dance
Speaker 3: class to try and brush up on that area. And
Speaker 3: then obviously you have to prepare your script and song.
Speaker 3: And often if you are going for a role, they
Speaker 3: often just give you material, so you kind of straight
Speaker 3: away go into learning the song from the show. But
Speaker 3: if you're maybe going in for ensemble or they don't
Speaker 3: really know where to put you, they will often ask
Speaker 3: you to prepare your own song. So then you'll find
Speaker 3: in a song that sits in the right style of
Speaker 3: the show that's not from the show. You know, you
Speaker 3: try and find something by a similar composer or by
Speaker 3: that composer from something else, and you have to learn
Speaker 3: that you prepare it as like thirty two bar because
Speaker 3: they never want to have too much of it. And
Speaker 3: then the same thing with your script. And I always
Speaker 3: try and I always try and learn the lines without
Speaker 3: trying to put any acting into it, just so like
Speaker 3: they're words, because otherwise if I find that if I'm
Speaker 3: learning them with a thought in my head of how
Speaker 3: I'm supposed to say it, then I can only say
Speaker 3: it that way, Whereas if I just learn them as words,
Speaker 3: then when someone gives me something, if I ask someone
Speaker 3: to read with me, if they give me something different,
Speaker 3: I can respond differently. Because they're just words, They're not
Speaker 3: predetermined how they're delivered. So I try and do that,
Speaker 3: and I always try and have a friendly read with
Speaker 3: me live before the audition because or else the first
Speaker 3: time you actually do it with someone else is on
Speaker 3: the day and then it can throw you. So yes,
Speaker 3: there's lots of things for that and that. If you're
Speaker 3: auditioning for a TV or film, then same thing. It's
Speaker 3: often just a script, but it's a different kind of
Speaker 3: medium because it's not as physical, so they're not going
Speaker 3: to see as much of your face or your body,
Speaker 3: and you have to you know, the cameras off are
Speaker 3: much closer, so you have to kind of really contain
Speaker 3: the acting. The thoughts are all the same, but you
Speaker 3: just have to remember that it's as if I was
Speaker 3: talking to someone just across from me, rather than projecting
Speaker 3: to two thousand people. So you know, they're different skill sets,
Speaker 3: but yeah, there's different kind of things that you can
Speaker 3: do for each of them.
Speaker 1: What about rejection, because I imagine you know, as someone
Speaker 1: in this industry, you would have had lots of rejection,
Speaker 1: so much like, how have your strategies for dealing with
Speaker 1: that and managing that changed over the years.
Speaker 3: When I first started, I used to take it quite
Speaker 3: personally because I was young and I was still developing
Speaker 3: my thick skin, I think, and if I'm really honest,
Speaker 3: when I was little, younger, I was chubby, and I
Speaker 3: didn't feel very beautiful, and I always felt like I
Speaker 3: wasn't pretty enough, or I was too fat, or you know,
Speaker 3: that was kind of the narrative i'd tell myself. And
Speaker 3: so there was a little of judgment on myself and
Speaker 3: a little bit of shame, like if I didn't get
Speaker 3: something or if I didn't go well, and over time
Speaker 3: I had to thankfully, part of that meant that then
Speaker 3: I was I looked a little bit older than my
Speaker 3: age when I first started out, and so that meant
Speaker 3: that then I actually got a foot in the door
Speaker 3: because I could cover roles that we're a bit older
Speaker 3: and a bit younger. And I think that's actually what
Speaker 3: helped me get into the industry. So now I can
Speaker 3: reflect on that, I'm quite grateful, but at the time
Speaker 3: I didn't really understand it that way. But over the years,
Speaker 3: just because it happens so often, if you get one
Speaker 3: out of every ten things you go for, you are
Speaker 3: smashing it like it's it's hard, and often you don't
Speaker 3: get something and it's nothing to do with you. It's
Speaker 3: about the balance, it's about the mix. It's that there's
Speaker 3: actually no male opposite that's also auditioned that's in the
Speaker 3: right age bracket, or that is you know, they're much
Speaker 3: taller than you, or it could be anything. You know,
Speaker 3: they've cast another role and there was only one option,
Speaker 3: and that person's blonde, So we need a brunette. Like
Speaker 3: it can be anything, and so it's so not about you,
Speaker 3: and it's not until you do it enough and enough that.
Speaker 2: You kind of realize that.
Speaker 3: And I think for me, I had to just kind
Speaker 3: of keep telling myself if I am not okay with
Speaker 3: the rejection, that I just shouldn't do it, and that's okay,
Speaker 3: Like you.
Speaker 2: Don't have to do this job.
Speaker 3: It's a choice, and if you want to do the
Speaker 3: job you have to. You have to get okay with
Speaker 3: someone saying no, and remember it's not about you, and focus.
Speaker 3: For me, I just focus on what is meant to
Speaker 3: be will be.
Speaker 1: I want to know, with this kind of change in
Speaker 1: how you make decisions around deliberately doing things that excite
Speaker 1: you and make you happy, what does that look like
Speaker 1: now on a day to day basis when you're evaluating
Speaker 1: how to live your life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, oh, I need to do it a
Speaker 3: little bit. I need to come back to it a
Speaker 3: little bit, to be honest, because recently I had have
Speaker 3: said yes to many things and I was feeling a
Speaker 3: little bit stretched, and I was like, ooh, I'm at
Speaker 3: capacity and that I think that can happen for a
Speaker 3: lot of people. And I think that happens for a
Speaker 3: lot of people in the business world and a lot
Speaker 3: of people in the enertainment world, because in the entertainment world,
Speaker 3: we're ultimately always freelancers. You know, you work for a show,
Speaker 3: whether it's a TV show or a musical or a play,
Speaker 3: for a finite period of time, and so you're constantly
Speaker 3: moving from employer to employer, and so you don't ever
Speaker 3: have that sense of normalcy or stability of this is
Speaker 3: what every day looks like. And so because of that,
Speaker 3: you tend to say yes because you're like, I don't
Speaker 3: know what's going to come after this, so I should
Speaker 3: say yes to what's happening now. And for me, I
Speaker 3: started making finding and creating ways to make my own work.
Speaker 3: So I, you know, started writing and I produce and
Speaker 3: we've you know, created this company, and that has been
Speaker 3: so powerful because that's given me another skill set and
Speaker 3: something that I have agency in and have control over.
Speaker 3: And so I don't feel like I have to say
Speaker 3: yes to something in the entertainment world or anything. Actually,
Speaker 3: like I don't have to take a producing job if
Speaker 3: I don't want to do it, because I would actually
Speaker 3: rather make space to perform in that. Or I don't
Speaker 3: have to say yes to auditioning for that ad that's
Speaker 3: three thousand dollars and going to take me days and
Speaker 3: days of work to go in for it, and it's
Speaker 3: not worth my time because you know what, actually I
Speaker 3: can put my time and energy into this other thing
Speaker 3: that I love. So having a variety of things I
Speaker 3: think is really has been really important for me and
Speaker 3: so useful. And I often like, if I ever get
Speaker 3: to talk to other actors or young actors, I'm often saying,
Speaker 3: find something else that gives you joy, because sometimes you'll
Speaker 3: burn out because as an actor, you give so much energy,
Speaker 3: and so you do sometimes deplete yourself of that energy.
Speaker 3: So you need something else that can kind of refill
Speaker 3: your tank. And you know, one of my girlfriends, she'd
Speaker 3: created a company called Sojournal, and she basically designs itineraries
Speaker 3: for people. So because she loves travel, she knows all
Speaker 3: about different places in the world, and that's what she
Speaker 3: does when she's just like wanting to do something fun.
Speaker 3: And I have another friend that like learned to be
Speaker 3: a vegan chef because that makes her feel fun. And
Speaker 3: so they're not jobs that they necessarily go and try
Speaker 3: and fulfill in a you know, every day, full time sense.
Speaker 2: But it's something else.
Speaker 3: That makes you feel like you have power, that you
Speaker 3: have agency, and that therefore you know and that makes
Speaker 3: you feel good. So then you don't rely on having
Speaker 3: to have someone else approve or validate you to work,
Speaker 3: which is what happens as an actor because you can't
Speaker 3: choose which jobs you get. Someone else decides. They decide
Speaker 3: if you get to audition, they decide if you get
Speaker 3: the part, They decide when that job is so because
Speaker 3: you have no autonomy. There For me, it was really
Speaker 3: about creating something else that meant I had autonomy, and
Speaker 3: then it is now it is about saying, what is
Speaker 3: what excites me and what can I validly fit in
Speaker 3: in terms of time and is this time that is worth?
Speaker 3: Is this time that I'm going to carve out for
Speaker 3: this worth that does it sustain me somehow? So recently
Speaker 3: I was asked to work on a development of a
Speaker 3: new TV show and I really really wanted to do that,
Speaker 3: and so even though I was completely full, I was like,
Speaker 3: I'm going to make time, and so I had to
Speaker 3: pull out as something else so I could do that.
Speaker 3: And then same thing, I was asked to do a
Speaker 3: development of a new musical, and same thing, I was like, Oh,
Speaker 3: I really want to do that because all you know,
Speaker 3: as an actor, you just want to create a role.
Speaker 3: So I was like, great, I want to do that.
Speaker 3: So I need to change these hours, which means I'm
Speaker 3: going to work on this time on the weekend. And
Speaker 3: that's a valid sacrifice to make because that's important to me.
Speaker 3: But then someone else will ask you to do something
Speaker 3: and I'm like, you know what, that doesn't feel like
Speaker 3: it excites me, so that I'm not going to make space.
Speaker 1: For sounds like there's so many things that you're juggling.
Speaker 1: And I know that you're a big fan of to
Speaker 1: do lists and maybe you've got quite the system. Can
Speaker 1: you talk me through your system for to do lists?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: So I have, like I love a list because there's
Speaker 3: so many different things going on, my brain needs to
Speaker 3: be aware of all these different projects. So I have
Speaker 3: like a master flow chart, and basically it's this big
Speaker 3: chart that has each of the different projects, and within
Speaker 3: each one of them, I have all of the elements
Speaker 3: that I need to do, and it might be broken
Speaker 3: down in terms of things I need to action, things
Speaker 3: that need to be chased up, things that are and
Speaker 3: I also then in terms of hay Lemon aid, I
Speaker 3: break them down into sections. So this is creative, this
Speaker 3: is legal, this is content, this is marketing. So it's
Speaker 3: just really clear and easy for me to straight up
Speaker 3: go ooh, there's a lot of things happening in content
Speaker 3: right now.
Speaker 2: I need to put some more time in that.
Speaker 3: Oh that thing that's easy to delegate, great, and it
Speaker 3: just kind of gives me an overall view. And if
Speaker 3: I can also then tell that there's a whole bunch
Speaker 3: of things on my performance schedule. I need to rehearse
Speaker 3: for Barbra streisand I need to do that audition, I
Speaker 3: need to put down that tape, I need to you know,
Speaker 3: start preparing learning that script. So you can see there's
Speaker 3: a whole bunch of things. And because I can see
Speaker 3: it all. I can see how much, I guess you
Speaker 3: know where the weight is going and maybe where I
Speaker 3: need to carve out more space for one thing and
Speaker 3: less for something else. And I've also use color a
Speaker 3: lot because my brain loves color, and it does it
Speaker 3: kind of.
Speaker 2: Like helps me see somehow.
Speaker 1: It helps.
Speaker 3: I have a bit of a photographic memory when color
Speaker 3: is involved. So if something you know, I can kind
Speaker 3: of see the color and then somehow see all the
Speaker 3: things underneath. It sounds silly, but it works.
Speaker 1: It doesn't sound silly at all. Tell me about how
Speaker 1: you manage your diary and how you chunk things, because
Speaker 1: again I know you think quite deeply about this.
Speaker 3: I yes, I schedule. I schedule within an inch of
Speaker 3: its life.
Speaker 2: So it started. I actually started when I was at.
Speaker 3: High school because I was a super nerd. So anyone
Speaker 3: out there that's a nerd, I see, and I would.
Speaker 3: I knew that I had, you know, multiple subjects of exams,
Speaker 3: and I had them all back to back. For some reason,
Speaker 3: mine had all been scheduled back to back. So when
Speaker 3: I schedule now, I do the same thing I did then,
Speaker 3: which is I'm like okay, so I say I get
Speaker 3: up at six or six thirty, I'll try and either
Speaker 3: go for a walk or do some yoga and do
Speaker 3: life admin because there's something about having the life admin
Speaker 3: feel at least clear in my brain. It's like having
Speaker 3: a clear desk. It makes me feel like I can
Speaker 3: conquer what's next. And then I schedule. Okay, so from
Speaker 3: nine to eleven, I'm going to do hay lemonade. Then
Speaker 3: from eleven thirty till this time, I'm going to work
Speaker 3: on this project. At three o'clock, I will always try.
Speaker 3: Between three and four, I try and sing or try
Speaker 3: and do you know, script work or whatever it might be.
Speaker 3: Then I'll do another bit of hay lemonade, and then
Speaker 3: I try and do social work, like something social in
Speaker 3: the evening so that I feel connected. And I know
Speaker 3: it sounds like overly scheduled, but it's the only way
Speaker 3: I can a get through everything and b for me
Speaker 3: because there's so many projects, I don't have to have
Speaker 3: any one thing finished, or it's unlikely I'll ever have
Speaker 3: any one thing finished. So if I've done a bit
Speaker 3: of something of each thing that day, then at least
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm maintaining and that kind of gives
Speaker 3: me a great sense of satisfaction, but also means that
Speaker 3: I'm making progress, Whereas if I try to do all
Speaker 3: of one thing, finish that, then move on to the next,
Speaker 3: it's just never going to happen. And then you're trying
Speaker 3: to particularly with performing, you're rushing it. So I have
Speaker 3: these big concerts coming up. I'm doing these barbarsteris and cons.
Speaker 3: It's across the country. It's me Caroline O'Connor, Katie Noonan
Speaker 3: and Ryan Gonzalez, and we sing the score of Barbra
Speaker 3: Streisand and it's amazing. But her music is epic, and
Speaker 3: so you have to sing it in. So if I wait,
Speaker 3: I can easily just move that off the list because
Speaker 3: it doesn't feel like it's right now or it's urgent.
Speaker 3: But if I do that, then my voice isn't gonna
Speaker 3: have sung it in when it comes around to it,
Speaker 3: and doing it a week before three days before isn't
Speaker 3: enough time. So it's better for me to go, I'm
Speaker 3: going to do an hour, one hour, or I'm gonna
Speaker 3: do just half an hour or And this is what
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 2: When I'm learning a new show. I will schedule.
Speaker 3: I'll go, Okay, I'm gonna do these two songs today,
Speaker 3: tomorrow's a break. I do those two songs the next day,
Speaker 3: then a break, than those two songs the next day,
Speaker 3: then have a break. Then the next day I will
Speaker 3: do all six of those songs, then start again the
Speaker 3: next week, and then I kind of work backwards, and
Speaker 3: I just always alter the order slightly, but make sure
Speaker 3: that you're building on something, because I feel like small
Speaker 3: bite sized chunks is achievable, whereas if it's just all
Speaker 3: one big thing too much.
Speaker 1: I love the I'm wondering what happens.
Speaker 2: When things go awright. Well, I think when things go awry.
Speaker 1: Or when your motivation goes awry.
Speaker 2: It happens all the time.
Speaker 3: To be honest, almost daily things go awry, and so
Speaker 3: I almost daily don't stick to the schedule, and I
Speaker 3: have to be okay with that. But something about having
Speaker 3: a schedule means that then you also can the days
Speaker 3: it doesn't go awry, means that if I have to
Speaker 3: skip singing today or I have to skip working on
Speaker 3: that project today, I can because I did some yesterday
Speaker 3: and I know I've got it scheduled for some tomorrow.
Speaker 3: So it's it's about like for me, it's about having
Speaker 3: that sense of order that then can be have some
Speaker 3: flexibility around it. And sometimes I definitely lose motivation, and
Speaker 3: that's when I also know that I am tired and
Speaker 3: probably a bit burnt out, and so then I will
Speaker 3: also try and just like clear things off the plate
Speaker 3: and like delegate if I can, and or just be
Speaker 3: okay that some days you just need to sit on
Speaker 3: your couch and watch YouTube clips of dogs. You know,
Speaker 3: that's what I have to do some days. And if
Speaker 3: that's what I do, that's okay, and I go cool.
Speaker 3: I'll start again tomorrow. I think one of my superpowers
Speaker 3: and my downsides is that I get every things really quickly,
Speaker 3: and I think it's something I had to build up
Speaker 3: because of acting. But it's like I make a decision quickly,
Speaker 3: and if it's wrong, that feels so bad. I hate it,
Speaker 3: but at least I know and then I can like
Speaker 3: try something else. And it's the same with this. It's
Speaker 3: like if I don't get something, it sucks, but then
Speaker 3: I can try again tomorrow, or at least you know
Speaker 3: where you stand. I rather know than like a oh
Speaker 3: maybe in any capacity. And that's how I feel about
Speaker 3: the schedule and about all of those elements like if
Speaker 3: I can't do it today, oh that sucks, but that's cool.
Speaker 3: I'll just start it again tomorrow. Just have to accept
Speaker 3: the given circumstances.
Speaker 1: We will be back with at least soon talking about
Speaker 1: her slightly unusual system for capturing ideas and thoughts when
Speaker 1: she is on the go. If you'll look for more
Speaker 1: tips to improve the way that you work, I write
Speaker 1: a short fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool things that
Speaker 1: I've discovered that helped me work better, ranging from software
Speaker 1: and gadgets that I'm loving through the interesting research findings.
Speaker 1: You can sign up for that at Howiwork dot co.
Speaker 1: That's how I work dot co. I know you've got
Speaker 1: a system for when you think of something on the
Speaker 1: go and you need to remember it, tell me what
Speaker 1: you do.
Speaker 3: So I write myself text messages so I have a
Speaker 3: running text to myself. It's equals MC squared because my
Speaker 3: name is Elise and mccatn which is mcc and I
Speaker 3: actually had been It was because when I was in
Speaker 3: New York, I remember walking past his coffee place and
Speaker 3: they had a picture of Albert Einstein and e and
Speaker 3: then m with you know the two like sign and
Speaker 3: I was like, Ohm, sorry see and then the two
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh god, that's my initials. And
Speaker 3: I was like, oh my gosh, that's like energy. That's
Speaker 3: like abb Einstein's whoa and my mind blew and I was.
Speaker 2: Like, there says me, I feel seen. And it was
Speaker 2: just like this like weird moment.
Speaker 3: And also I have a massive Mariahkarry obsession, so of
Speaker 3: course we all know the emancipation of MIMI is E
Speaker 3: equals MC squared, So I basically label myself equals MC squared.
Speaker 3: And it always gives me a giggle because then if
Speaker 3: I have to write something to myself, I can find
Speaker 3: it really easily. And it also just means everything is
Speaker 3: in one spot and I can come back to it
Speaker 3: really quickly. But it something about laughing, I think just
Speaker 3: it releases indoorphins, It releases tension, it releases stress, so
Speaker 3: when my brain is on overdrive at least. Also, yeah,
Speaker 3: having like a fun name for my own text message
Speaker 3: love letter to myself is useful.
Speaker 1: Do you, like, do you do anything with those messages, like,
Speaker 1: for example, do you have a system where you will
Speaker 1: go back over all the messages that you will send
Speaker 1: to equals MC squad during the day and then do
Speaker 1: something with them. Or is it more just a repository
Speaker 1: of things.
Speaker 3: It's more a repository of things, to be honest. But
Speaker 3: to be honest, something about writing them down means that
Speaker 3: my brain doesn't need to remember them anymore. And then
Speaker 3: I often I do come back to them at the
Speaker 3: end of the day, but I often find that most
Speaker 3: of them have been actioned by that stage, and when
Speaker 3: they haven't, added them to the flow.
Speaker 1: Shut.
Speaker 3: But of course, but but it kind of it isn't
Speaker 3: most of the time for me, just about the brain
Speaker 3: not wasting energy on trying to remember something.
Speaker 2: I am very lucky.
Speaker 3: That I happen to be able to work quite quickly,
Speaker 3: and I am a great multitasker. I'm good at getting
Speaker 3: shit done. I don't know if I'm allowed to swear sorry,
Speaker 3: you can. Christ I stopped myself earlier, I couldn't this time.
Speaker 3: I'm really good at getting shit done. And and so
Speaker 3: if I but I get I holt, I get stopped
Speaker 3: or you know, I get stuck in that if I
Speaker 3: feel like I'm trying to hold onto too many things.
Speaker 3: So it's mostly just about getting them out and I
Speaker 3: think that that's you know, that works with stress, with
Speaker 3: all kinds of things. Just getting it out means that
Speaker 3: you can come back to that later if you want to.
Speaker 3: I think I think it works with anger. I think
Speaker 3: it works with actually all of our emotions too, Like
Speaker 3: if you are really angry at someone or really hurt
Speaker 3: by something, I often will write that down, write down
Speaker 3: exactly what I want to say to that person, because
Speaker 3: then I don't have to hold it. Then I can
Speaker 3: actually let it go. And if I want to tell them,
Speaker 3: I've got it there so I don't have to hold
Speaker 3: onto it to remember to tell them it's there. So
Speaker 3: it just I do that with everything, just like write
Speaker 3: it down some way so then you can let it go.
Speaker 1: I know you're a big fan of emails in draft.
Speaker 2: I am.
Speaker 1: Tell me about that.
Speaker 3: Okay, so most people think I'm nuts about this, but
Speaker 3: I if I have something that I want to if
Speaker 3: I need to action, or an email I need to
Speaker 3: send to someone, or information I need to convey to someone,
Speaker 3: I will start it in an email. And then if
Speaker 3: I you know, if I just have a thought like oh,
Speaker 3: that's right. Actually, you know what, let's make sure that
Speaker 3: we tell everyone that we're going to have this year subscription,
Speaker 3: and let's tell them on the first of January. I'll
Speaker 3: go and write that in an email and you know,
Speaker 3: write the name of the person this is going to
Speaker 3: go to. But I'll pop it in an email and
Speaker 3: leave it in my drafts. And I do that with
Speaker 3: everything because so I actually have I just checked this morning,
Speaker 3: I have twenty six drafts in my email, which is
Speaker 3: actually not too bad, I thought, but draft emails, I
Speaker 3: should say. But the reason I do that is because
Speaker 3: or else I'm going to write that down somewhere else
Speaker 3: to remember it and then have to come back and
Speaker 3: at some point translate that into an email. Whereas if I,
Speaker 3: you know, if I'm working through a problem or I'm
Speaker 3: you know, thinking about something we need to action down
Speaker 3: the track, if I have it in an email draft already,
Speaker 3: then half the work is done.
Speaker 2: You just you get.
Speaker 3: And also it's another reminder every time you go back
Speaker 3: to your drafts or something else happens, you're like, oh, yes,
Speaker 3: of course that have I actioned that yet, And you
Speaker 3: can just add to it and it's all same thing
Speaker 3: in the one place. And it's kind of like having
Speaker 3: little you know, flow tabs for each individual thing, but
Speaker 3: it saves me the time of you know, going back
Speaker 3: in and doing it later.
Speaker 2: And I know that lots of people.
Speaker 3: Say, carve at time to do one thing and you
Speaker 3: know that's what's going to make you most productive. But
Speaker 3: for me, I'm I'm yeah, the opposite. I'm the opposite
Speaker 3: in all of the things.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: I know that one of your friends.
Speaker 1: Gave you advice that is I think commonly given that
Speaker 1: you're the average of the five people that you spend
Speaker 1: the most time with, and I know that's something you've
Speaker 1: thought about. Can you tell me what, like, what changes
Speaker 1: have you made to your life after doubling down on
Speaker 1: that advice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so funny because, yeah, my friend said that
Speaker 3: to me years ago, years and years ago, like probably
Speaker 3: a decade ago, and I had remembered thinking, oh, wow,
Speaker 3: that's really cool. Yeah that's cool, and thinking about the
Speaker 3: people that I probably spent the most time with and
Speaker 3: feeling like, oh, they're awesome people.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 3: And it wasn't until I would say, probably three or
Speaker 3: four years ago, probably three years ago, probably no, probably
Speaker 3: four years ago, and then really enhanced with COVID, so
Speaker 3: almost three years ago that I was reminded of that
Speaker 3: that saying by this same friend and realized, oh, I
Speaker 3: needed to take action on this. And that was because
Speaker 3: I realized that I had as a people pleaser and
Speaker 3: I am out person I would, you know, I would
Speaker 3: say that that's something. You know, I get energy from others,
Speaker 3: and so an extrovert, I guess you'd say, I would
Speaker 3: often give my time to lots of people. I would
Speaker 3: try and do catch ups with lots of people because
Speaker 3: you make a lot of friends in our industry, because
Speaker 3: you meet a lot of individual people and you get
Speaker 3: on really well. And I would try and catch up
Speaker 3: with all of those people. Everyone's like, let's catch up.
Speaker 3: You're like yeah, yeah, yeah, and you make all this time.
Speaker 3: But I realized that actually a lot of those catch
Speaker 3: ups are actually work colleagues. They're not necessarily friends, and
Speaker 3: that's okay. And I realized that I actually needed to
Speaker 3: be more deliberate about when I give that time, because
Speaker 3: you talk for an hour about the biz or things,
Speaker 3: but actually you've not had really meaningful, engaged conversations and
Speaker 3: or not necessarily with someone that is refilling or reinvesting
Speaker 3: in me. And I realized I need to it's up
Speaker 3: to me to stop putting my energy out there to
Speaker 3: everyone else and just giving that to everyone else if
Speaker 3: it's not also being replenished. And so I really deliberately
Speaker 3: were like, I don't have to be friends with everyone.
Speaker 3: I can be friendly, but I don't have to be
Speaker 3: best friends with everyone. That's okay, and so I'm going
Speaker 3: to focus on the people that inspire me and invest
Speaker 3: in me and motivate me, because that is you know,
Speaker 3: then that's kind of refeeling, and that's cyclical. We kind
Speaker 3: of then support each other. And so I really deliberately
Speaker 3: did that, and I think COVID was helpful because we
Speaker 3: all were stuck at home and so we couldn't do
Speaker 3: all those catch ups and you know, someone's like, oh,
Speaker 3: let's have a phone call, let's have a zoom, and
Speaker 3: then you realize, actually that person never reaches out, and
Speaker 3: you're like, oh, that's okay. Well, then we're probably not
Speaker 3: as important to each other. And that doesn't mean we
Speaker 3: can't be friendly, but we don't need each other in
Speaker 3: the same way. And so just being able to let
Speaker 3: go of that and then focus on the people that
Speaker 3: are important and that really give back has been really
Speaker 3: useful and friends and family. Community is really important to me.
Speaker 3: They are central to my life, feeling connected and feeling
Speaker 3: like there are people that I can share it with.
Speaker 3: And I think because a point did come actually when
Speaker 3: I won The Helpman with Matilda and I'd won the
Speaker 3: Sydney Theater Award and I was playing this role that
Speaker 3: I loved, and I was like, Wow, this is everything
Speaker 3: I ever thought that I wanted. I've literally gotten all
Speaker 3: the things I've wanted and I have no one to
Speaker 3: share it with. And it was because I was so
Speaker 3: busy with work and with all of these you know,
Speaker 3: people that were friendly, but I hadn't I didn't have
Speaker 3: a partner at the time, and I, you know, wasn't
Speaker 3: making time for my family. And I was like, wow,
Speaker 3: I really don't have that sense of anchoring community to
Speaker 3: share this with. And I was like, and it means
Speaker 3: nothing when that happens. So yeah, I made a concerted
Speaker 3: effort to start investing in those people that were going
Speaker 3: to give back to me.
Speaker 1: How did you do that? I feel like that's easier said,
Speaker 1: that's done, And I can certainly relate to what you're saying.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm an only child and so for me,
Speaker 1: friends the family that I choose absolutely, and so I
Speaker 1: take my friendships really really seriously. And I think over
Speaker 1: the last few years, I've been very reflective when I
Speaker 1: catch up with someone. Am I getting energized and energy
Speaker 1: from this person, or am I leaving feeling a bit
Speaker 1: deflated and like I gave so much of myself but
Speaker 1: I'm not really kind of getting it back. I'm curious
Speaker 1: as to what that process is like for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, that's a great question. And part of it
Speaker 3: was a mindset, but in actual tangible form, it was
Speaker 3: having to stop myself from doing a lot of reaching
Speaker 3: out because I would often move into a state of, oh,
Speaker 3: I need to make sure that person knows that I
Speaker 3: like them or I value them, or that person had
Speaker 3: said we should catch up, so I want it. I'm
Speaker 3: going to reach out to them. And I deliberately stopped
Speaker 3: myself from reaching out to anyone for a month. And
Speaker 3: I know that sounds so silly. I mean, I did
Speaker 3: my partner and my family obviously, but otherwise I was like,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to reach out and initiate a catch
Speaker 3: up and I'm going to see who reaches out to me.
Speaker 2: And it was.
Speaker 3: Sobering to be honest, because that I think and obviously
Speaker 3: lots of people have lots of things going on in
Speaker 3: their lives and it's not definitive and it's not indicative
Speaker 3: of all ways of how important someone is. But it
Speaker 3: was about making space for people to come to me
Speaker 3: rather than always coming towards others. And that was kind
Speaker 3: of what set me off. And then once I was
Speaker 3: able to go, Wow, that person's reached out and that
Speaker 3: person has been hey, I'm just going to check in,
Speaker 3: or that person or I feel like I'm missing that person.
Speaker 3: I haven't heard from them, but I really feel like
Speaker 3: I missed them. That was the what made me go, Okay,
Speaker 3: I need to reach out to them because that is
Speaker 3: giving me something. And so it was, Yeah, it's mostly
Speaker 3: about it was making space.
Speaker 1: I love that idea of a thirty day.
Speaker 3: We do it all the time, and that's the thing
Speaker 3: it was, because you know I do I did a
Speaker 3: thirty day meditation challenge, we do a thirty day detox,
Speaker 3: we do a thirty you know what I mean, like
Speaker 3: thirty days of November, like whatever it might be. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: just see what happens. I know, because people say it
Speaker 3: all the time. With acting, they say like, don't if
Speaker 3: you go forward too much, if you yell, if you press,
Speaker 3: people pull away. But if you kind of lean in,
Speaker 3: you know, or if you speak quieter, if you make
Speaker 3: more space around you. If you're talking all the time,
Speaker 3: this is my fault. Then no one has space to talk.
Speaker 3: But if you leave space, someone else can talk. And
Speaker 3: it's the same with this.
Speaker 2: It's like create space and see who can come in
Speaker 2: to your life.
Speaker 1: Love that. I love that at least for people wanting
Speaker 1: to connect with you. What is the best way to
Speaker 1: do that.
Speaker 3: I am terrible on Twitter and LinkedIn. I have them,
Speaker 3: but I don't use them a lot. I'm trying to
Speaker 3: use LinkedIn more. So welcome me to that field, guys,
Speaker 3: because I it's not the field you normally use as
Speaker 3: an actor, So welcome me there because I'm trying.
Speaker 2: But I mostly use.
Speaker 3: Instagram and probably Instagram the most, to be honest. So
Speaker 3: you can reach out of any of my socials or
Speaker 3: I've got a website you can reach out through.
Speaker 2: Hay Lemonade. I would yeah, love to connect great.
Speaker 1: I'll put all those handles in the show notes.
Speaker 2: Elie. Thank you just been.
Speaker 1: Such a joy. As I finished, has that time gone?
Speaker 1: It has because we're going to get kicked out of
Speaker 1: the studio. But as I said to you when I
Speaker 1: met you, when I was like reading over and doing
Speaker 1: research for the interview, I'm like, I think this is
Speaker 1: my kindred spirit that I'm about to meet. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I feel it.
Speaker 2: I feel it. I'm such a fan. So this has
Speaker 2: been such a joy and privilege.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Mutual Joy, Thank you. One of my favorite
Speaker 1: takeouts from this interview was the fact that har and
Speaker 1: Lucy literally scripted out their meeting with Alan Joyce. I
Speaker 1: just think that's so cool, and it's made me really
Speaker 1: rethink how I approach sales meetings. I feel like, having had,
Speaker 1: oh gosh, a couple of decades worth of experience selling
Speaker 1: things and doing business development, I sometimes find myself getting
Speaker 1: lazy and not doing the preparation that I ideally should
Speaker 1: be doing. So hearing Elise talk about all the work
Speaker 1: that went into their pitch with Alan Joyce has kind
Speaker 1: of reinvigorated me to go, Hmm, how can I be
Speaker 1: more disciplined to make sure I really maximize the time
Speaker 1: that I get to spend in front of people who
Speaker 1: might want to be buying the products and services that
Speaker 1: I'm offering. Thank you for sharing part of your day
Speaker 1: with me by listening to How I Work. If you're
Speaker 1: keen for more tips on how to work better, connect
Speaker 1: with me via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy to find.
Speaker 1: Just search for Amantha Imba. How I Work was recorded
Speaker 1: on the traditional land of the WARRANGERI people part of
Speaker 1: the cool And Nation. I am so grateful for being
Speaker 1: able to work and live on this beautiful land and
Speaker 1: I want to pay my respects to elder's past, present
Speaker 1: and emerging. How I Work is produced by Inventium with
Speaker 1: production support from Dead Set Studios.
Speaker 2: The producer for this episode was
Speaker 1: Liam Riordon, and thank you to Martin Nimba who did
Speaker 1: the audio mix and makes everything sound better than it
Speaker 1: would have otherwise.