1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: Now, as you may have heard yesterday, well, the territory's 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: NAPLAN results, the NAPLAN results for all of Australia came out, 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: but here in the Northern Territory, more than half of 4 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: the territory's students have fallen behind in their studies. That's 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: according to the latest results the Australian Curriculum Assessment and 6 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: Reporting Authority. Well, yesterday they revealed that the major Assessment 7 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: Programs twenty twenty four results have shown that on average, 8 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: fifty seven point four percent of nt kits in years 9 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: three to nine need more support and or are developing. 10 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: That's down zero point four percentage points from twenty twenty three. Now, nationally, 11 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: thirty two point nine percent of students in twenty twenty 12 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: four fell in the same category. Joining us on the 13 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:45,959 Speaker 1: line to have a talk about these numbers and what 14 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: it all means is the president of the Education Union 15 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: here in the Northern Territory, Michelle Airs. Good morning, Michelle, 16 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: Good morning, Keny. Lovely to have you on the show. Michelle, 17 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: tell me what are some of the key findings or 18 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: what are some of the key results from the NAPLAN results. 19 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 2: There's a it's a complex set of set of results. 20 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 2: There's a there's a lot to get into because it 21 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 2: records obviously on the different years, the different year levels, 22 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 2: and then also records across a different sets of studies, 23 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 2: so numerous the literacy, and then within literacy you've got spelling, grammar, 24 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 2: et cetera. So there's a lot to break down in 25 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 2: the results. And there's somewhere the territory has increased in 26 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 2: somewhere the territory has decreased on average over the last 27 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 2: year or so. But in the core area we're still 28 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 2: very low. And I don't think that's something that's going 29 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 2: to change anytime quickly, if that makes sense. 30 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, So Michelle, what like in that court talk us 31 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: through what that core area is and and what may 32 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: be the reasons behind that. 33 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm going to pull I guess Aliphant out 34 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 2: of the room very very quickly and say that this 35 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 2: I'm going to link this back to funding, as I 36 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 2: have in almost every conversation I've had with you about 37 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 2: learning recently. Our schools are critically underfunded, and the government 38 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 2: has made moves to change this. We've recently seen announcements 39 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 2: of a massive funding increase over the next five years, 40 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 2: and then their agreements signed with the federal government about 41 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 2: what that will look like. However, that money hasn't come yet. 42 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 2: So we've got overcrowded classrooms. We've got teachers who are 43 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 2: working with students who are behind, far behind, as these 44 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 2: NAP plans scores have told, and then also with students 45 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 2: with additional needs and et cetera, so that the high 46 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 2: we've got extremely high levels of those kind of additional 47 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 2: needs of adjustments needing to be made by teachers who 48 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 2: have you know, if they've got I've heard stories of 49 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 2: teachers who have twenty three, twenty four kids in their 50 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 2: class and more than half of them and require some 51 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 2: kind of adjustment because they're behind benchmark in NAP plan. 52 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 2: There's additional needs, there's potentially English as an additional language. 53 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,519 Speaker 2: All of these things require more time and attention from 54 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 2: a teacher, and if you can imagine how time is limited, 55 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 2: so that teacher then has to decide where they're going 56 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 2: to put their time and their energy, and we really 57 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 2: need to do better to support them. And that's yeah, 58 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 2: going to be interesting to see what happens as we 59 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 2: start to roll out the reformation. 60 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: And that like it benefits the whole classroom as well, right, Like, 61 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: not only the kids that need that additional support, but 62 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: then the other kids as well, because the teachers are 63 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: able to give them a little bit more time and effort. Like, 64 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: I can't even imagine how tough it must be for 65 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: some teachers trying to juggle such a high volume of children, 66 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: and then if they don't have that additional support in 67 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: the classroom, you know, how do we, like, how do 68 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: we honestly expect that it's going to get any better 69 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: for our students if if they're facing that very much 70 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: an uphill battle. 71 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 2: And I need to really clear here when I say 72 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 2: I'm not talking about just our remote classrooms or just 73 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 2: specific schools. I'm talking about every teacher in almost every 74 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 2: school in the Northern Territory has a higher level in 75 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 2: their class than we would have seen maybe ten years 76 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 2: ago of students who are performing behind benchmark. And yeah, 77 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 2: we need to we need to increase that support, whether 78 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 2: that's withdrawing kids from the class to have support staff 79 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 2: work with them, whether that's bringing in more teachers so 80 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 2: that there's lower class numbers. Now, the problem there is 81 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 2: currently we're in a teacher shortage, so there's also actually 82 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 2: an egg situation, because I honestly believe one of the 83 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 2: reasons we're in a teacher shortage is that teachers are 84 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 2: frustrated with their ability to or inability rather to cater 85 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 2: for the student needs. That is something that really tends 86 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 2: to burn people out and causes people then to leave 87 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 2: the profession. So we need to be able to fix 88 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: one in order to fix the other. If that makes sense. 89 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: It does. It does make sense, And I suppose it's 90 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: probably easier for me to understand because you know, because 91 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:16,919 Speaker 1: my kids are at that age as well, so you 92 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: can actually see and and you know what some of 93 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: those juggles can be like for teachers if you if 94 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: you have a chat to them. But then I even 95 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: look at different schools as well over the last few years, 96 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: and something that I've noticed, Michelle, and this may or 97 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 1: may not be something that gets raised with you, but 98 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: one of the things that I noticed is that, you know, 99 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: at different schools as well, there used to be teachers 100 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: that sort of did you know, not even specialty, but 101 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: different kinds of subjects with the kids, i e. Music 102 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: and performing arts or physic or sport, whatever you call it, 103 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: at each school or maybe you know some additional science 104 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: education with kids that are at a higher level. And 105 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 1: what I've seen over resent years across different schools and 106 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: have been told as well by parents, is that some 107 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: of those different programs are being cut at schools because 108 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: they simply don't have enough teachers and those teachers are 109 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: having to go back into the classroom, and the kids 110 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: really aren't getting those extra curriculars that are part of 111 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:18,479 Speaker 1: learning and are part of the fun of learning. 112 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And one of the issues is that those 113 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 2: those subjects aren't recorded on that plan. But research says 114 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 2: that having those subjects there help students who do better 115 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 2: when it comes to their reading and writing, their numerously 116 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 2: because they're more engaged at school, They're more they're able to, 117 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 2: you know, learn on different or fire on different parts 118 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 2: of the brain, et cetera. It grows the whole child. 119 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: And we have to be really careful when when looking 120 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 2: at math plan scores that only record reading and writing 121 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 2: and numerous see though those are extremely important measures, they 122 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 2: are not the only measures of learning that a student does. 123 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 2: And what happens is because our system is so data driven, 124 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 2: we look at those and the schools go, well, we 125 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 2: need to invest and make sure that kids are reading 126 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 2: and writing and then yeah, those other areas tend to 127 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 2: drop off. It is a concern. It's a massive concern 128 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 2: and hopefully it's something that will be able to see 129 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 2: rebuilt in the coming years. 130 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, Michelle, tell me with these naplan results, I mean, 131 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: do you think that, like, are they beneficial in different 132 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: you know, like, are they beneficial to the school or 133 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: are they beneficial to the government in terms of determining 134 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: where funding needs to go. Or do you feel like 135 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: they're sort of coming out now and people are going, oh, yeah, 136 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: you know, you have a bit of a read through, 137 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: but there may be not having the intended impact that 138 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,679 Speaker 1: may that people may have wanted when they were first 139 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: sort of first implemented. 140 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we have to be really careful. Most 141 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 2: teachers aren't huge fans of nap plan. Takes a lot 142 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:04,239 Speaker 2: of time and to a minister. We find, especially in 143 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 2: the remote communities, that the test isn't really designed for 144 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 2: the students who have low literacy and low numeracy, so 145 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 2: it's really difficult to kind of administer the test. Then 146 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 2: now it's been taken online, which means that people with 147 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 2: low computer literacy that will impact as well, but overall, 148 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 2: I think there is the level of value that it 149 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 2: provides is a benchmark against the whole nation. It has 150 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 2: far too much value placed on it when it comes 151 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 2: to what we're doing. Well, there's so many other measures 152 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 2: that can be used, and the qualitative knowledge or the 153 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 2: teacher's perspective, the parent's perspective, like watching that child learn 154 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 2: and grow. What that plan doesn't tell you is how 155 00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 2: is that child going to be as a citizen in 156 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 2: as they grow up? How are they developing into an 157 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 2: active and potentially positive contributor to society. That's what we 158 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 2: should be aiming to do at school, and we should 159 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 2: make sure that our measures of assessment and et cetera 160 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 2: that we're putting our time and energy and money into 161 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 2: are really lining up with that as an outcome. If 162 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 2: that makes sense. 163 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it does, It does make sense. Michelle, Just 164 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: quickly before I let you go, I mean, what did 165 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: it show? What did the results show us out in 166 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 1: our more remote areas of the northern territory. 167 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 2: Well, that is a good question and not one that I, oh, 168 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 2: that's okay to answer. I didn't get a chance to 169 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 2: look at that. 170 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 1: No, that's fine. 171 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 2: Imagine I imagine. I do know that the results are 172 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 2: slightly up from where they were last year, but also 173 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 2: the test changed from last year, so even looking at 174 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 2: it year on year, it's going to take a little 175 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 2: while for it to all work out in the wayship 176 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 2: that makes sense. 177 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Michelle, are is always good to ca chap 178 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: with you. I really appreciate your time this morning and 179 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:03,719 Speaker 1: having a bit of a chat with us about those 180 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: Naplan results. 181 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 2: Thank you, Katie, thank you