1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: It's three pm and Nicki's fat shot is ducking out 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: of the office to go watch her kids perform at 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: their school play. She's cool, right, But what you might 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: not know is that Nicki is the CEO of Unilever 5 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: Australia and New Zealand and at the time of recording, 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: was also the global CEO of T two. So how 7 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: can she possibly have time in the middle of a 8 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: workday for a school show. Well, it's the positive side 9 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: she's discovered in having an absolutely hectic work schedule as 10 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: a global CEO. She's sometimes on virtual meetings in the 11 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: middle of the night to talk to teams on the 12 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: other side of the world. But if she's going to 13 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 1: be working from seven to eleven at night, then she 14 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: can definitely carve out some time in the middle of 15 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 1: the afternoon for her family. So how does she keep 16 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: it all from toppling over and how does she keep 17 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: her schedule in order when she sometimes needs to work 18 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: while everybody else is a sleep Well it all comes 19 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: down to colors. My name is doctor Amantha Imba. I'm 20 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: an organizational psychologist and the founder of behavioral science consultancy 21 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: invent Him and this is how I work a show 22 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 1: about how to help you do your best work. On 23 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: today's My Favorite Tip episode, we go back to an 24 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: interview from the past and I pick out my favorite 25 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: tip from the interview. In today's show, I speak with 26 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: Unilever CEO Nicky Sparshot, who spoke with me about deliberately 27 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: leaving time for urgent or reactive work in amongst her 28 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: quarterly priorities. And I wanted to know what does that 29 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: look like in practice, Like does she have buffer time 30 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: in her diary? 31 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I literally have, like my deep work is coded 32 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 2: in yellow. That's my favorite color, and you know that's 33 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 2: so that's my kind of maybe my favorite time. And 34 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 2: then I've got yeah, it literally says do not book meetings, 35 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 2: and it might be colored in orange, and I know 36 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 2: that that time's then available. But you know what, there's 37 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 2: a lot of freedom in it as well, because Anna, 38 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 2: who works with me and she helps me manage my 39 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 2: diary and does it really well. She can then call 40 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 2: me and say, Henny, can know you've said no meetings here, 41 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 2: but this has come up. Is this more important or not? 42 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 2: And that's so helpful because then I can just take 43 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 2: an informed decision about you know, whether I give up 44 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 2: that space or actually whether or not I need it 45 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 2: for something else. 46 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, now I'm really fascinated with this. I need more 47 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: detailed nikis so would every day of your week, because 48 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: I know you have your specific deep work time, which 49 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: I do want to get into, but with all the 50 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: other days, Like, would I be seeing a chunk blocked 51 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: out in your diary in orange that says do not 52 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: book like? Is that a daily occurrence? 53 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 2: If I can get it every day, then I will 54 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 2: do it every day. To be honest, some days of 55 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 2: train wrecks. You know, if you would look some days 56 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 2: in my diary and it would look awful, it would 57 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 2: look awful from seven thirty in the morning till eleven 58 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 2: thirty at night because it just happened to be one 59 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 2: of those days where there's you know, late night meetings 60 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 2: with our global teams, and that I just suck those up. 61 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: Right. 62 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 2: If every single day was like that, it'd be really difficult. 63 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 2: But the nature of the job is such that there 64 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 2: needs to be a certain degree of flexibility, And you 65 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 2: know what, I'm fine with that because it means that 66 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 2: when there's something on at the kids' school and they've 67 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 2: gone exhibition and I think, gosh, I am going to 68 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 2: duck out and go and go and see that, and 69 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 2: it might be, you know, three o'clock in the afternoon, 70 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 2: but that's okay, because then I'll come back home and 71 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: I will work later on to the evening. I feel 72 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 2: that that, to me is a version of work life balance. 73 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: Right. 74 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 2: I've been able to make the choices that are right 75 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 2: for me and my family and still give what I 76 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 2: need to do to the job, and so there's an 77 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 2: enormous amount of freedom in that for me. 78 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: Now, deep work, I know you take deep work seriously, 79 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: and you're referring to kind of having that, you know, 80 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: thirty thousand feet view from the air of what's going on. 81 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: Tell me about your deep work routine or ritual. 82 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 2: I think that the first thing that I love about 83 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 2: it is that I'm not in a meeting, and I 84 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: get a bucket boat of energy from being with other people. 85 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 2: So this is not necessarily about the need to be 86 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 2: on my own, but it gives me the space to 87 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 2: have a bucket of time that I can now choose 88 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 2: what I'm going to do with. And so I think 89 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 2: just the very act of not having to be on 90 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 2: a screen, not having to be in a conversation just 91 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: allows me some space to go through just actions that 92 00:04:54,640 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 2: require some thought. And you know, I can times get 93 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 2: into a habit of feeling like when you take action, 94 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 2: you've got momentum. But what I've learned the longer I've 95 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 2: kind of been in their career is that actually, sometimes 96 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 2: the moments of greatest impact at the times when you 97 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 2: don't feel the need to act, but you just give 98 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 2: yourself the space to think. And I'm getting better at that. 99 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 2: You know, when I, on occasion receive an email that 100 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: sets up like boiling, whereas my inclination may have been 101 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:34,119 Speaker 2: to respond, I now sit with it just that little 102 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 2: bit longer than I normally would have, and I think 103 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: nine times out of ten, my response is different to 104 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 2: what it would have been had I just allowed myself 105 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 2: to react instinctively. So that's what I love about that 106 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 2: deep work time. I just have that opportunity to give 107 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 2: myself the space to think about things without the rush, 108 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 2: without the chaos, without the noise of the daily operation. 109 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: Will you have particular things that you bring into that 110 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: deep work time that you're like, Okay, I want to 111 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: think about this particular goal or this particular project, Like 112 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: how planned is that deep work time. 113 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 2: It varies depending on what I need to do. So 114 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 2: let's say it's a bit of work on the organization 115 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 2: and people. Then I might actually use some post it 116 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 2: notes and stick them up on the wall and you know, 117 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 2: have a little bit of my own mini workshop on 118 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 2: my own that's really valuable. Occasionally I will call other people, 119 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 2: I will do a sort of dialar friend, because that 120 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 2: is the time I actually want to get some outside 121 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 2: in perspective. So sometimes I use that deep work time 122 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 2: actually to connect with the people in other companies quite often, 123 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 2: sometimes in other industries. Quite often that can give me 124 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 2: a different way of looking perhaps at the problem. All 125 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 2: the opportunity that I have. 126 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: That idea of, like the kind of phone a friend. 127 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: I like that, Like how how do you think about 128 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 1: your networks in that sense? And who you'll call for what? 129 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I think actually, you know, people will say 130 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 2: how important it is to have a network and to 131 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 2: do networking and all that sort of stuff, And I think, actually, 132 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 2: just at the heart of it is two you can 133 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 2: either feel incredibly resourced constrained at times, or you can 134 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 2: realize that there's an incredible amount of resource abundance if 135 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 2: you just reach out and generously share your knowledge and equally, 136 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 2: you'll find that people are very very generous. 137 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: In sharing that. 138 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 2: That's been my experience at least, so sometimes the people 139 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 2: that I have in my network, I like it to 140 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 2: be varied, like I'm a really big believer in the 141 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: businesses I lead or the teams that I'm part of. 142 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 2: And I also would put this in my own kind 143 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 2: of personal social kind of circle. 144 00:07:58,760 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: I like. 145 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 2: Perspective. I like to be able to connect with people 146 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 2: that can offer alternative ways of thinking about things. Cuze, 147 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 2: just give you a very creative lens. 148 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: I just love how structured and deliberate Nicki is when 149 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: she thinks about her time, which probably explains why she 150 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: was holding down to major CEO rolls when we spoke. Now, 151 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: if you've enjoyed this episode of How I Work, why 152 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: not share it with a friends that you think would 153 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: like it too. And thank you to everyone that has 154 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: done that and helped How I Work reach over three 155 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: million downloads. How I Work is produced by Inventing with 156 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: production support from Dead Set Studios, and thank you to 157 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: Mit Nimba who does the audio mix and makes everything 158 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: sounds better than it would have otherwise, see you next time.