1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: Bit of a change of pace. Now let's turn our 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: attention to Canberra, where the Liberal Party have been fighting 3 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: it out amongst themselves as to where they stand on 4 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: net zero. Now. It's obviously causing fractures in the coalition 5 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: marriage and threatens the leadership of Susan Lee, with some 6 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: waiting in the wings, were keen to take over that 7 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: leadership if she can't maintain a stronghold. And it gives 8 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: us a bit of insight, I guess, into the goings 9 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: on in the halls of Canberra and well to the 10 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: person who knows exactly what's going on in Canberra is 11 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: nine News Political editor Charles Crautcher. Good morning to you, Charle. 12 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 2: Hey, Katie, how are you very well? 13 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: Mate? We know you know what's going on in Canberra. 14 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: You've got all the goths. 15 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: I'm sure it's getting harder. It's getting harder. But this 16 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 2: is a real feel of here we go again again 17 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 2: with a Liberal Party on this one. 18 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, talk us through. I mean, yesterday we're expecting them 19 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: to meet for about three hours. It ended up about five. 20 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 2: Didn't it. Yeah, five hours? Listen in five chips came 21 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 2: a little at one point a big box of them 22 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 2: the potato chips, so that was how they were fueled. 23 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 2: And the big question is, you know, how do they 24 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 2: feel the country and how do we maintain our energy 25 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 2: whilst also maintaining some kind of commitment to reducing carbon emissions. 26 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 2: What we've got was a set of principles and ideas, 27 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 2: effectively by which the Liberal Party will be guided. They 28 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 2: include the belief that net zero will be ditched some 29 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 2: stage later today, there's a meeting that's coming up, it's 30 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 2: actually in at the moment. And then also the insistence 31 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 2: that nuclear must remain part of the mix for Australia 32 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 2: moving forward. They say they'll be technology agnostics, so they'll 33 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 2: be a mix of coal and other things, but nuclear 34 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,119 Speaker 2: is certainly something they think is still part of it. 35 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 2: And also remain committed to the Paris Agreement. So effectively 36 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 2: trying to have a bet each way in many ways, 37 00:01:55,800 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 2: but with no real or clear or definitive idea year 38 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: as to how this all happens. There's not one extra 39 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 2: electron that has been put into the grid based on 40 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 2: what I've seen from these principles. That's going to be 41 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 2: part of the questions that get asked later on today. 42 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're sort of waiting for this other meeting 43 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: now to happen this morning, aren't we. 44 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, So we got a meeting yesterday. It went for 45 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 2: five hours. That was the whole Liberal Party room. Everyone 46 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 2: got to have their say. Then we get the meeting 47 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 2: today which is just the front bench members of the 48 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 2: Liberal Party Room. Then they'll send three people, the Nats 49 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 2: will send three people. They'll discuss it, chat try and 50 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 2: work out a plan going forward. And from there on 51 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 2: Sunday the whole coalition meets and tries to come up 52 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 2: with a coordinated plan, so they're on the same page. 53 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 2: I think of some wisdom that was imparted to me 54 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,399 Speaker 2: in the territory, which was and I'll modify this because 55 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,679 Speaker 2: there's still language. But you know, if you get with 56 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 2: a poop sandwich, you're better off eating it quickly. This 57 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 2: is eating that poop sandwich over six days and turning 58 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 2: into a banquet. So you know, we sit and we 59 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 2: and we will see what goes on. 60 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: And no one likes the poop sam with So it's 61 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: like I spoke for the long guys. 62 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 2: And then there's the whole destabilizing to Susan Lee's leadership. 63 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: This has been kryptonite for coalition leaders in the past, 64 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 2: and the challenge now is how they come back together 65 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 2: under Susan's leadership or otherwise, because there are many waiting 66 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: in the wings. And I thought it was it was 67 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 2: interesting that the role that the Senate the Nevergepa Price 68 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 2: played yesterday out in front of the conservative sort of 69 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 2: faction of the party that walked in together, a couple 70 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 2: of former front benches out in front, and then the 71 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 2: two obvious leadership contenders right behind center, the never jimp 72 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 2: for Price, which was Angus Taylor and Andrew Hasty side 73 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 2: by side. None of that's a coincidence. That's all deliberate 74 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 2: and all a real warning shot to Susan Lae. 75 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: Yes, what do you think it could mean? You know, 76 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: in terms of her prominence going forward? If if Susan 77 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: Lowe is beeson or rolled or can't sort of hold. 78 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 2: On, well, I mean the problem, the problem Susan Lee 79 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 2: will have is that is twofold one. You know, she 80 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 2: was elevated with the support of the moderates, and that 81 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 2: a lot of the moderates want to keep nets Era, 82 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 2: which looks like it's going to be gone. So you 83 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 2: sort of you lose some of the faith behind them. 84 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 2: And then the other part is that the closer we 85 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 2: get to an election, the more the nervous backbenchers will 86 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 2: start looking around. If they hear the woodchip are coming 87 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 2: that is the election, and look at the Poles and say, well, 88 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 2: if this stays the same, I'm going to lose my job. 89 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 2: Then they start looking around for a life or after. 90 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 2: Often that means a change of leadership. So I think 91 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 2: Susan Lee is safe for Christmas. It's always dangerous having 92 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 2: all the Liberals in one room together if there is 93 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 2: a bit of doubt, because that's what it takes to 94 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 2: begin the leadership process. That didn't happen yesterday. So that 95 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 2: me that unless something goes horribly wrong in these next 96 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 2: few days, then certainly will be saving your Christmas. But 97 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 2: there are still several points of danger for her, particularly 98 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 2: if the Poles don't it. 99 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. I can't help but feel that she's sort of 100 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 1: warming a seat at this point. 101 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a pretty safe bet. You know, came in 102 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 2: with very few votes as a majority, lost some of 103 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 2: those instantly through a silk capterium, losing her seat and 104 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 2: the Senate changing and then from ban has been pretty 105 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 2: well marked, particularly with the way the Poles are now. 106 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 2: We know things can turn around, and they often do. 107 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 2: But given there are now several people putting their hands 108 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 2: up to at least indicate they are interested in leading 109 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 2: the party, at some stage it would just take one 110 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 2: or two votes in a small party room to change 111 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,559 Speaker 2: it all. And you've seen in the territory enough times 112 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 2: in the last ten to fifteen years that it doesn't 113 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 2: take much and it can happen quite quickly when happens. 114 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: That's exactly right, Charles. I mean the whole saga as well. 115 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: It's sort of you know, it really puts into spotlight 116 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:11,919 Speaker 1: the relationship between the Nats and the Libs, you know, like, 117 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: how is that looking now that they've sort of determined 118 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: that they're scraping the net zero but trying to work 119 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: out what their policies are. 120 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 2: I mean, the Nats will be delighted they have once 121 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 2: again managed to lead the Liberal Party on a major policy. 122 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 2: And this is It happened with nuclear power, it happened 123 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 2: with the Voice, and now it's happened with net zero, 124 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 2: and it is certainly you don't ask too many Nats 125 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 2: down here what they think before they let you know, 126 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 2: they think they are leading the way with the Liberal 127 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 2: Party at the moment, and it's hard to argue with that. 128 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 2: That keeps the coalition together, but you're not. In the 129 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 2: last two elections, there's been a lot of seats lost, 130 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 2: not many of them to come from the Nationals. They've 131 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 2: all come from the Liberals. And I thought it was 132 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 2: interesting Tim Wilson, who is the only person to ever 133 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 2: win a seat back off a teal, he was one 134 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 2: of the ones arguing most vehemently for keeping net zero, 135 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 2: that is, this aspiration to effectively put out as much 136 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 2: carbon as we take in. He wanted to keep that 137 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 2: because he thinks it's necessary in the cities, and he 138 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 2: was overruled by the majority, which is now not from 139 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 2: the cities. So you know, there are lots of places 140 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 2: where the Liberal Party, the CLP, the Coalition just aren't 141 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: relevant anymore. And one of them is, you know, the 142 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 2: entire territory. There's not a house seat in the territory 143 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 2: that has a SALP person representing them. Set of the 144 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 2: Price is the only one down here in Camber representing them. 145 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 2: And there are big chunks of big cities around the 146 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 2: country that are the same. 147 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: Hey, you know, when you talk about this whole net 148 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: zero debate, what does it mean you know for the 149 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: average mom and dad in the northern suburbs or in Palmerston. 150 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: Do you think they care that much? 151 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 2: I think you hit the nail on the head. That's 152 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 2: the crazy part of this, all right. This is an 153 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 2: argument over a hypothetical. They have to get the government 154 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 2: before any of this happens. As well. This whole debate, 155 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 2: the energy debate and the emissions debate will be fought 156 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: on two grounds. One is cost. If anyone can guarantee 157 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 2: costs will come down, then I think they'll go a 158 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 2: long way to winning this fight. Now, the governments should 159 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 2: be sort of over a barrel here because prices have 160 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 2: gone up as they've tried to transition away. Now, they 161 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 2: argue it's because for ten years the Coalition couldn't get 162 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 2: their act together on energy policy. They had all these 163 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 2: switching and changing it's still going on now, and that 164 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 2: meant that businesses just wouldn't invest because they didn't have 165 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 2: the certainty that the rules they were playing with when 166 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 2: they made the investment will be the same rules they're 167 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 2: playing with two years down the track. But the other point, 168 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 2: so if you can make it cheaper. That's going to 169 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 2: go a long way. I think that anyone who has 170 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 2: rooftop solar will know that you can make a pretty 171 00:08:55,640 --> 00:09:00,719 Speaker 2: direct link between renewable energy, rooftop solo and cheaper That's 172 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 2: going to play into the fact that the other one 173 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 2: is is young people. You know, the biggest voting block 174 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 2: at the last election were millennials and gen z and 175 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 2: they seem pretty steadfast and wanting some kind of action 176 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 2: on emissions, on climate, on making the planet better. And 177 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 2: that's what the Prime Minister and his team are banking on. 178 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 2: That this action from the coalition will further alienate that group. 179 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 2: It's only going to become a bigger cohort at the 180 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 2: next election through it's just more of them coming through 181 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 2: and more of the older cohort dying off the cold 182 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 2: hard reality and the cold heart maths of it. As 183 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 2: crass and challous as that sound is that they're probably right. 184 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 2: But if this is what they're fighting a third election 185 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 2: in a row on, then they be pretty confident that 186 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 2: they have the same result of the last two, which 187 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 2: is Labor Party wins. 188 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:54,719 Speaker 1: Some of those young people might have a few more 189 00:09:54,760 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: power bills by them though as well chast Oh well, 190 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: Charles Crutcher, wonderful to speak with you this morning. Hey mate, 191 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: if you're talking to Anthony Albanezi, can you let him 192 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: know that our Chief minister's written to him to sign 193 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: off on the next administrator and we're still waiting. Yeah, 194 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: let him know for six months, for six weeks. No, definitely, 195 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 1: not not for me. I like causing trouble on the 196 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: radio too much, you do it. Well, good to talk 197 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: to you this morning.