Speaker 1: The Flex and Rooms Daily podcast, brought to you by Jasies.
Speaker 2: It is us flextor Froom's podcast edition. Today's episode is
Speaker 2: super fun. We didn't even scratch the surface of it all.
Speaker 2: But it's all about creative ownership in the digital landscape.
Speaker 2: When you put something out into the universe, what ownership
Speaker 2: do you have of it by the time it reaches
Speaker 2: mass appeal.
Speaker 3: Because if you are really happy, you want something to
Speaker 3: go viral. But the more viral you go, the more hmm,
Speaker 3: how do you say iterations?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: There, the more viral your idea goes, probably the less
Speaker 2: associated it is with you, until you become so prolic
Speaker 2: everyone's like, oh my god, I know that's a warhole.
Speaker 2: But I'm sure there are people who know of warholes
Speaker 2: paintings and don't know they are a warhole.
Speaker 3: Totally me when I was fifteen. Yeah, no, I've read
Speaker 3: about the Mayl Monroe and sold for fifty five.
Speaker 1: Million back in the day.
Speaker 3: No recently, Oh okay, well you know in the modern times, yeah,
Speaker 3: post millennia.
Speaker 2: Anyway, I would love to know what people think about this,
Speaker 2: but honestly, by the time you hear this, I'll be
Speaker 2: over this topic anyway. So don't worry about letting me know,
Speaker 2: but put in your group chats. It's a very important
Speaker 2: topic and I think it will make any creative person
Speaker 2: be a bit more mindful with how protective they feel
Speaker 2: of the things they put on the internet. And if this,
Speaker 2: if that's the case, what measures can be taken to
Speaker 2: protect it from being taken? Wow, Americans love trademarking, But
Speaker 2: Kardashian shed constantly trademarking constantly, Kylie, yeah, all the time,
Speaker 2: any little idea trademarked.
Speaker 3: Got more to say about that, But well, do you
Speaker 3: really I just want to say, remember how that cheek
Speaker 3: sued sued McDonald's for the hot coffee?
Speaker 1: No, what's ages ago?
Speaker 3: It was this whole thing where like this American woman
Speaker 3: sued McDonald's for she spilt coffee on herself and the
Speaker 3: coffee was too hot, and there was this whole thing about,
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Americans are crazy. They always see people
Speaker 3: what it turns out she had horrific injuries in her
Speaker 3: lap from the coffee actually spilling with her, like injuries
Speaker 3: to her labor. So therefore, don't always read that Americans
Speaker 3: loves to too, do.
Speaker 1: You think will be true? Yeah? True? All right? Whatever.
Speaker 2: Australians don't sue enough. We just some people get some
Speaker 2: numbers on the board.
Speaker 1: And firms f see we both like to share memes.
Speaker 1: We do. Would you agree?
Speaker 2: Different brand of me? I think I've found myself in
Speaker 2: the reaction expression mean territory more so than like the relatable,
Speaker 2: like I can't believe it's Friday.
Speaker 3: I hope that you're not referring to me. No, not
Speaker 3: to say that you are not me, but you are
Speaker 3: a meme creator, not just curator. And that's a whole
Speaker 3: different ballpark. I'm not there. I've been thinking a lot
Speaker 3: about it lately because I haven't felt the urge to
Speaker 3: create memes. Probably my last meme spree that I had
Speaker 3: was during the election and after the election. Toto Anthony
Speaker 3: Abaneze adjacent Toto is giving forth much life, which is
Speaker 3: Anthony Albanese's a young child dog, total young child dog,
Speaker 3: not a puppy.
Speaker 1: No, it's probably.
Speaker 3: About four yearsl and it's a boy, but I call
Speaker 3: her she Okay, I digress. Wait, maybe it just a girl. Anyway,
Speaker 3: it's not for me to decide. I don't know how
Speaker 3: she feels about that. But it's been a little while
Speaker 3: in between memes. I have absolutely no desire to make them.
Speaker 3: It's a little bit like something we were talking about
Speaker 3: previously about hobbies and when you don't do your hobbies,
Speaker 3: are you still the person?
Speaker 1: He's still hobbyists.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not sure if I'm a meme creator any longer.
Speaker 1: How often does one need to make a meme to
Speaker 1: be a meme creator?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was totally averaging usually like once a week.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you are it.
Speaker 3: I think when I wasn't doing CADI, I had more
Speaker 3: brain space. This show actually takes up more brain space
Speaker 3: than I was aware would. Yeah, yeah, which is good.
Speaker 3: I guess if it pays the bills. It's not free
Speaker 3: work anyway. I was also thinking about the millennial pause.
Speaker 3: We spoke about this a little while ago. It's been
Speaker 3: making the rounds, particularly in youth media, as we all
Speaker 3: come to the conclusion that maybe we are as young
Speaker 3: as we thought we were.
Speaker 1: You say, wee, but I'm feeling twenty two? So am I? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so am I? But I'm sitting on behalf of others.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, of course you did earlier in a meeting,
Speaker 3: say though we're almost thirty, which I don't know if
Speaker 3: I might have.
Speaker 2: Said that I don't know if I meant it.
Speaker 1: Stop it anyway.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when I read about the millennial pause and the
Speaker 3: fact that like a lot of millennials do a little
Speaker 3: pause before they start speaking, they're aging out of the Internet. Yes,
Speaker 3: I was wondering if these meme formats that we create
Speaker 3: and then we championed are now becoming a bit redundant.
Speaker 3: For example, I do think there's a shelf life to
Speaker 3: particular styles of memes. I still see people doing the
Speaker 3: one where it's the guy and the girlfriend.
Speaker 1: A steel girl and they're looking back.
Speaker 2: It's been co opted by the corporates though, Like I
Speaker 2: see that ad do people know the one so you've
Speaker 2: got the girl in the foreground and the guy looking
Speaker 2: back at her from the background while he's with another
Speaker 2: while he's with another girl, and it'll be like takeaway
Speaker 2: is the main girl, and then the couple with the
Speaker 2: guy will be like the food that's already in your fridge.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: And I remember when we remember when we were in
Speaker 3: internet like it's over. I remember when I first started out,
Speaker 3: when I was like in two thousand and twelve, there
Speaker 3: was that meme with the big block riding up the
Speaker 3: top and down the bottom and it would be like
Speaker 3: a picture to be like I used to drink alcohol.
Speaker 1: I still do, but I used to as well. Stuff
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 3: Anyway, I'm thinking about TikTok and the proliferation of video
Speaker 3: and average people making videos and Irish people, you know, everybody,
Speaker 3: you know, people that are fifty years old getting to
Speaker 3: people us. It's different though. Men creators used to be
Speaker 3: a particular brain. Now everybody is a meme creator and
Speaker 3: for the grady good. But I think now humor is
Speaker 3: going to move completely. It's quite abstract at the moment.
Speaker 3: I'd say for me, the funniest thing that I'm saying
Speaker 3: that's a new generation thing is the use of sounds
Speaker 3: being funny. Yes, and it's like random sounds, like like
Speaker 3: something crashing into a water or like ragman, And it's
Speaker 3: the funniest thing ever. So I'm just wondering how that's
Speaker 3: going to translate to static memes, Like what's the use
Speaker 3: of static memes anymore? If almost all of our social
Speaker 3: media is moving image base.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I still think there's a place for just static,
Speaker 2: plain old pickies reactions, because do you know what I
Speaker 2: find is happening, Like you said, we are in a
Speaker 2: very abstract place with memes, where they're really hyper specific,
Speaker 2: hyper specific, or very niche and say, if you don't
Speaker 2: get it exactly how it's meant to be got, you
Speaker 2: can't even enjoy it. And I think that's going to
Speaker 2: run its course a little bit, and then we're going
Speaker 2: to go to a place where we just let the
Speaker 2: pictures do the talking. So very similar to what you
Speaker 2: would experience on Twitter. So someone tweets with words and
Speaker 2: then a lot of the responses are just images. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: they say what they need to say. If you get it,
Speaker 2: you get it, you know you don't. It's like gif
Speaker 2: reacts in messages. Yeah, it's pretty rudimentary.
Speaker 1: We didn't do that enough.
Speaker 3: Really, I've started using my memoji, which is the stupid thing. Yes,
Speaker 3: and I love it. I'm gonna try and make it
Speaker 3: a thing. I do want to know that our meme
Speaker 3: literacy has become so great that I think even the
Speaker 3: word meme is going to become obsolete.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so what.
Speaker 2: Is the Really, it's just accurate anthropological observation about the world.
Speaker 1: Meme is also a bit like.
Speaker 3: Memo, accurate observational.
Speaker 1: What's the last word anthropological accurate anthroological, anthrop observation, logical observation,
Speaker 1: the AO Sharon Io. I like that. We'll see how
Speaker 1: it goes. We will flex and meme.
Speaker 2: Queen Dojah Cat one of our faves. I don't know
Speaker 2: how you feel about her.
Speaker 1: I really like Doja Cat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm a big fan. Well, she's found herself in
Speaker 2: a bit of controversy first when she shaved her head
Speaker 2: and people thought she was having a mental breakdown and
Speaker 2: feigning like sympathy for her, being like, you know, my
Speaker 2: heart goes out to dojo and she's like, babes, I'm
Speaker 2: rich and I'm allowed to play with my look, don't
Speaker 2: worry about me. Recently, though, she launched a new website
Speaker 2: and a clothing brand, and the name of this new
Speaker 2: website and clothing brand is It's giving. Oh okay. Now,
Speaker 2: the issue with this because on surface value, no issue.
Speaker 2: We all know the phrase. We know where it came from.
Speaker 1: Or do we? So?
Speaker 2: The phrase it's giving came from a creator called Rolling Ray.
Speaker 2: And now, if you find yourself on black Twitter or
Speaker 2: that part of the internet, Rolling Ray isn't a nobody,
Speaker 2: a very prolific meme creator, somebody who is constantly coming
Speaker 2: up with catchphrases and cool statements that the rest of
Speaker 2: the Internet is taking. It's not the first time it's happened.
Speaker 2: It's giving definitely came from Rolling Ray years ago, right definitely,
Speaker 2: And then you could say that like broadly came from
Speaker 2: the drag community and whatever. But the phrase, the first
Speaker 2: meme that It's Giving came from was a viral video.
Speaker 1: Of Rolling Ray doing like what was he doing?
Speaker 2: Kind of like complimenting someone. Oh, it's giving what it
Speaker 2: needed to give honey, like that type of thing. So, like,
Speaker 2: we know where it came from, and if you don't
Speaker 2: like it, you can easily trace it back. The meme
Speaker 2: has origines, orangines, the meme origins. So of course, the
Speaker 2: thing about its giving is that Dojer went and trademarked
Speaker 2: the phrase last year. Which the thing about trademark is
Speaker 2: it's first come, first served. If it's a phrase that
Speaker 2: nobody has trademarked before, and you go on trademarket, it's
Speaker 2: yours to keep. If for some reason you want a
Speaker 2: trademark a phrase that has already been trademarked, you cannot.
Speaker 2: You can contest it and say it is mine. I
Speaker 2: used it first it's more well known from me using it, sure,
Speaker 2: but it's expensive to trademark, and it's expensive to contest
Speaker 2: an existing trademark. You can trademark things in different categories,
Speaker 2: like I can trademark, for example, my conversation card game reflex.
Speaker 2: I can trademarket in conversation card games, but it got
Speaker 2: contested because there's a reflex paper brand my card game
Speaker 2: saying the paper bit too close, so I had to
Speaker 2: do reflex. A conversation card game was the full trademark,
Speaker 2: which means that if somebody makes a conversation card just
Speaker 2: calls it reflex, they're not infringing on my trademark. It's
Speaker 2: messy stuff. So in this instance, everyone's like, okay, this
Speaker 2: number one, she's stolen the phrase, stolen whatever, She's used
Speaker 2: the phrase, but she's trademarkd So it's now officially not
Speaker 2: legal for someone else to use its giving in the
Speaker 2: context of clothing without Dojacat being able to sue them.
Speaker 2: And unfortunately the clothes aren't that good.
Speaker 1: Damn yeah, I know they're not good. Let me show
Speaker 1: you so you can see you get it up.
Speaker 3: We're going to take this conversation over to the podcast
Speaker 3: to talk about doja cat are infringing on copyright rules
Speaker 3: and the origins of memes and whether or not they
Speaker 3: are owned by a particular person.
Speaker 1: There's so much to discuss, too much.
Speaker 2: So if you want to see what the doja cat
Speaker 2: It's giving a power collection looks like it was launched
Speaker 2: with this really cool campaign idea that I want to steal.
Speaker 2: Basically looks like a bunch of old school paparazzi shots
Speaker 2: of her and her friends shopping wearing the merch wears
Speaker 2: it really well, he'll give you a little sneak a peak.
Speaker 2: It just keeps swiping left. So I would describe the
Speaker 2: collection as baby teas g strings with really juvenile tunish
Speaker 2: artwork but a good way.
Speaker 1: The pictures look like she's at Bunnings.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks very Bunnings plant store, trade store. The
Speaker 2: clothing just looks like really bad merch. Okay, the reasons
Speaker 2: why it's bad. The T shirt is the wrong shape.
Speaker 2: What shape is it?
Speaker 3: It's a boxy T shirt though neckline is good because
Speaker 3: it's nice and high, but it's cut out kind of
Speaker 3: like a semi circle. Semi circle, the front of semicircle,
Speaker 3: the backs of semicircle, whereas I prefer a more straight
Speaker 3: cut teeth. Yeah, my personal preference the tank top that
Speaker 3: that the guy's wearing. It has an applique it's giving
Speaker 3: that looks as if it's kind of coming off the shirt.
Speaker 2: What fond is that comic sansy ish ish. It's more
Speaker 2: it's a rounded bubble font.
Speaker 3: It's a round a bubblefont that you'd say like Bluey's
Speaker 3: conlcate bluise. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, interesting. It's just if the if.
Speaker 2: The collection was so good, like every single piece in
Speaker 2: the line, you're like, oh my good, I have to
Speaker 2: have it. I'd be willing to figure the copyright of fringement.
Speaker 2: The sucks are pretty cute, yeah, but not good enough
Speaker 2: to be like stealing someone's catchphrase trade barking it so
Speaker 2: they can't use it freely. Because if Rolling Ray wanted
Speaker 2: to make merch with its giving, well he's infringing on
Speaker 2: Doza's trademark.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really tricky.
Speaker 3: Copyriting and where memes and sayings come from is it's
Speaker 3: not I wouldn't call it a slippery slope because that's
Speaker 3: not my it's not my decision to choose where things
Speaker 3: come from. Because everything that I say is derivative of
Speaker 3: certain things of course, particularly like you say black Twitter.
Speaker 3: I don't think people are aware that black twitter is
Speaker 3: even a thing.
Speaker 1: Dojah would be hmm, dojah is black Twitter. She's on it,
Speaker 1: she's in it. Does that mean doesn't mean she's allowed
Speaker 1: to though?
Speaker 2: I feel like you know, when you copy something and
Speaker 2: it's like derivative, right, Like it's on your Pinterest. It's
Speaker 2: the amalgamation of a bunch of stuff that you picked
Speaker 2: and plucked from anywhere. It's hard to know what you've copied.
Speaker 2: You're like, like, I got it from somewhere. I don't
Speaker 2: know the reference. But if tomorrow I made merch and
Speaker 2: it was Shrek mert peop would be like, oh, that's
Speaker 2: your jacking through me style there, Like it's a bit
Speaker 2: it's a bit close to home, right, So like, even then,
Speaker 2: I don't own the copy mark for Shrek at all,
Speaker 2: the copy mark the copyright of the trademark for Shrek.
Speaker 2: But still in a social and a cultural way, it's
Speaker 2: very clearly your brand. If I went out of my
Speaker 2: way to now say I am the number one Australian
Speaker 2: Shrek influencer, you'd be like, Okay, babe.
Speaker 3: Which, to be honest, I didn't even choose it chose me.
Speaker 1: It chose you because like Twilight chose me.
Speaker 2: Yeah you have flex World. Yeah what's that? Well, Flexworld
Speaker 2: is my holding company.
Speaker 3: Right, and you didn't think Froom's World. Oh I didn't
Speaker 3: see you have no idea? Yeah I know, Well I
Speaker 3: got mine from Wayne's World. So I'm not going to
Speaker 3: be pointing any fingers, especially when you're doing something like
Speaker 3: the Internet without the whole reason. Well, a big reason
Speaker 3: of why, for example, I'm popular would be because I
Speaker 3: reference certain things that have already happened, people resonate more
Speaker 3: with them and then putting a spin on it, and
Speaker 3: it goes back to a whole argument.
Speaker 1: Of like where does art come from?
Speaker 2: Where?
Speaker 1: Yes, things have to always be in reference to other things.
Speaker 2: So in this instance, that's why people are torn because
Speaker 2: they're kind of like, yes, you started this phrase by technicality,
Speaker 2: but it got popularized by the Internet broadly taken mishmashed.
Speaker 2: You could ask ten people where they heard the phrase from.
Speaker 2: They'd be like, Oh, I heard it from rooms first,
Speaker 2: or I heard it from this person first, or like,
Speaker 2: oh no, it's definitely from this podcast. It's where I
Speaker 2: heard it, and so now you have all these different
Speaker 2: people taking micro ownership of this thing that has a
Speaker 2: very clear source. But then on the other perspective, it's
Speaker 2: like it's two words that have existed and will exist.
Speaker 1: Before you, after you and around you.
Speaker 2: If you weren't gonna trademarket and you weren't gonna release it,
Speaker 2: then is it just sitting there in the hopes that
Speaker 2: you might do something with it?
Speaker 1: Totally?
Speaker 3: And I honestly think people that kick up stink and
Speaker 3: say oh, like when something is popular that they did
Speaker 3: first and it gets popular by someone else, it can
Speaker 3: be very tempting to say, oh, that was mine, But
Speaker 3: it just comes from a scarcity mindset, exactly just being
Speaker 3: pissed that you didn't do it exactly. Unfortunate as that is.
Speaker 3: It's a red herring and it's a sign that you
Speaker 3: got to just if you have a good idea, just
Speaker 3: fucking crank it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It reminds you of when I made my conversation card
Speaker 2: games reflex and then when other people started making them,
Speaker 2: people would come to my dams like they're copying him,
Speaker 2: Like it's not a unique idea. The card like asking
Speaker 2: questions exists putting on paper exist and it's a card game.
Speaker 2: Like if I'm gonna start beefing over this, I got
Speaker 2: a beef over everything now, Like it's just not that deep.
Speaker 2: We have different audiences, we have different approaches to this,
Speaker 2: like one product, we can both live with it. And also,
Speaker 2: you're right, it's the abundant mentality of being Like for
Speaker 2: you to know, for you to even have the think,
Speaker 2: the thought that it's been copied is enough for me,
Speaker 2: Like you already know, you know my product. It's fine,
Speaker 2: But I think it's heaps s tricky because it's not
Speaker 2: even tricky. But I think, like you said, it's a
Speaker 2: greater conversation around like when we start applying micro ownership
Speaker 2: to every idea that was the sum of another idea,
Speaker 2: that was something of another idea, where do we start
Speaker 2: and stop? And if you do the thing you do
Speaker 2: so well, people will know it came from you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, facts, so you shouldn't need it. Assert dominance. Yeah, tricky,
Speaker 1: very but hurt areas, but it's juicy.
Speaker 2: I want to see how it evolves though, because I
Speaker 2: think even if she be like I'm so sorry, it's done,
Speaker 2: like this has been made. Yeah, this is not an
Speaker 2: apology kind of situation. You would have to start explaining
Speaker 2: the intricacies of trademarking to every single wason. It's like,
Speaker 2: I don't understand what the issue is.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 1: They don't have the time. I don't have the time.
Speaker 3: Anyway, They're wanna go down, go down, go down. Let
Speaker 3: me see you go to the office and get it copyrighted.
Speaker 3: Doja please?
Speaker 1: And she did it. Congrats. This is flex and frooms.
Speaker 2: Now. It is not an uncommon narrative for people to
Speaker 2: be beeping with their landlords and their real estate agents.
Speaker 2: I for one, you know, that's my current experience. But
Speaker 2: I was reading this really terrified an article that was
Speaker 2: talking about a huge number of New South Wales tenants
Speaker 2: are being evicted because landlords are deeming their houses to
Speaker 2: be uninhabitable.
Speaker 1: But here's the kicker. What is happening, or.
Speaker 2: The trend that people are observing, is that tenants are
Speaker 2: going to their landlord and saying, hey, there's heaps of
Speaker 2: water damage, there's heaps of mold here. I can't live
Speaker 2: in these conditions. It's not safe for me. Landlord's going okay, great,
Speaker 2: you're evicted. Because if a place is uninhabitable, you do
Speaker 2: not have to give notice before you kick somebody out
Speaker 2: because it's the health hazard. So I think it's like
Speaker 2: this almost like a why not where like if you
Speaker 2: don't want to live here, fine, you're evicted.
Speaker 1: We'll find somebody else who will.
Speaker 2: So it's getting to that point where people are having
Speaker 2: to deal with the consequence of living in a place
Speaker 2: that's not safe for purpose, or experiencing a no ground
Speaker 2: to viction and not having a leg to stand on
Speaker 2: for that. So I don't know what the warning here is,
Speaker 2: whether this is a cautionary tale or just you know,
Speaker 2: to be mindful what the reality is. But they say
Speaker 2: it's a rising number and big enough they can they
Speaker 2: can see the trend like it's a loophole that allegedly
Speaker 2: some landlords are relying.
Speaker 1: On the government step in. I don't know. That's hectic.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I could definitely like I could have been kicked out
Speaker 3: by night. I always complain about the mold. My shower
Speaker 3: is literally half of its brown.
Speaker 1: Now in the mold. When I leave, am I gonna get?
Speaker 1: Am I gonna get? Like? Is it my fault? It's
Speaker 1: it's hard to know.
Speaker 2: Also, because tenants do have a responsibility to make sure
Speaker 2: that the house remains in conditions that are appropriate to
Speaker 2: live in. I often think that this is where the
Speaker 2: real estate comes in. Like it's your job to meet
Speaker 2: the demands of both the tenant and the landlord, to
Speaker 2: ensure that everybody's either equally as happy or equally is unhappy.
Speaker 1: You know, prison, This is flex and frooms. I've gonna
Speaker 1: write flex. I love this already. It's not often that
Speaker 1: I get angry. Are you angry? I'd say I'm perplexed. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm a bit concerned.
Speaker 3: I'm not happy with how things have progressed. Oh, it
Speaker 3: involves public spaces and things that we are entitled to
Speaker 3: in the public sphere. This one, as we know, I
Speaker 3: have entitlements same that I'm happy to stand up and say, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's me.
Speaker 1: I think often in this modern day.
Speaker 3: And world, we're afraid to say that we are entitled
Speaker 3: to certain things.
Speaker 1: That's one of thing I know. I am glad you
Speaker 1: can admit it. It makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 3: One thing that pisces me off is how unavailable water
Speaker 3: is in public spaces. I'm an enormous drinker, Like I said,
Speaker 3: I probably drink at least eight liters of water a day.
Speaker 1: Because last week we said eight leaders, you may et glasses. Yes,
Speaker 1: I mean eight leaders.
Speaker 3: This time, the average person apparently needs eight glasses, which
Speaker 3: isn't even true. I would drink eight liters eight liters.
Speaker 3: I don't know where this came from, because I think
Speaker 3: I've mentioned to you growing.
Speaker 1: Up, you didn't drink water.
Speaker 3: You want Pepsi max, Pepsi max at all times before school,
Speaker 3: Pepsi max, milk, play lunch anyway. Yeah, I'm obsessed with water,
Speaker 3: and if I don't have it, I can't concentrate, Like
Speaker 3: right now, I really need to drink water.
Speaker 1: You can probably hear it in my voice.
Speaker 3: And something that I realize it's a struggle that I
Speaker 3: go that I have every day when I leave the house.
Speaker 3: See your first tear round now here because flex is
Speaker 3: about to have a nice little drink. Something that I
Speaker 3: have to grapple with every day when I leave the
Speaker 3: house is do I bring a water bottle or do
Speaker 3: I go no water bottle? The water bottle is great,
Speaker 3: but it's a hindrance when I'm going for big walks
Speaker 3: but they're not having a water bottle. Am I going
Speaker 3: to be parched down? At the beach.
Speaker 2: Big Water said, leave the bottle at home. Pay four
Speaker 2: bucks a bottle.
Speaker 1: Yes, and it's a full thing.
Speaker 3: It's kind of I wouldn't say it's a conspiracy theory,
Speaker 3: but supposedly this doesn't surprise me. Sales of bottled water
Speaker 3: now exceeds sales of soft drinks, which is such a
Speaker 3: fast I don't understand. Maybe this is the final frontier
Speaker 3: and climate emergency.
Speaker 2: A bottle of water every time I leave the house,
Speaker 2: only because for the last two consecutive apartments I've lived in,
Speaker 2: there's something wrong with the water. And I thought it
Speaker 2: was just me because I didn't used to be that
Speaker 2: person at water preferences.
Speaker 1: I couldn't taste it.
Speaker 2: I did, however, taste it in primary school, in high school.
Speaker 2: Know in high school, sorry, my best friend was a
Speaker 2: water boiler drinker, so every night her mum would boil
Speaker 2: water and then that is the water they would put
Speaker 2: in their water bottles, and I could taste it.
Speaker 1: I was like the BPA or something something like.
Speaker 2: It was there, but generally could not taste the difference
Speaker 2: until I start getting on that consecutive Mount Franklin and
Speaker 2: now I'm like very pad I can smell the chlorine
Speaker 2: in the taps. I can feel like the gristle. I
Speaker 2: don't know what is in it, but I'm like, it's
Speaker 2: not going down well. And I'm not just being paranoid
Speaker 2: because then I'll like, when my best friend is over,
Speaker 2: I'll get her to drink the water.
Speaker 1: She's like, yeah, it's not right. She's not just splcating you.
Speaker 2: Well, no, because she's a huge tap water drinker and
Speaker 2: we live in the same area, Like we live a
Speaker 2: street away from each other now, so it's like we
Speaker 2: got the same pipes.
Speaker 3: All I'm calling for is someone who has no preference
Speaker 3: to regular water from any kind of tap.
Speaker 1: I'm just thirsty all the time, so I'll take what
Speaker 1: i can get.
Speaker 3: More water taps in shopping centers, please, like a bubbler.
Speaker 3: No likes something that you can refill bottles with, because
Speaker 3: I think the is quite cute. Frank Greens, you got
Speaker 3: the colleener Strata bottles that I want.
Speaker 1: If you body yet.
Speaker 2: NA for me is a tossing up between buying this
Speaker 2: probably like a hundred maybe like close to two hundred
Speaker 2: dollars fully dimonted out water bottle, and I'm saying she
Speaker 2: should buy it because what's going to happen is that
Speaker 2: by the time you decide that you want to buy
Speaker 2: that bottle, there would be no bottle to buy.
Speaker 3: Hmmm.
Speaker 1: They you got guilt, regret, and shame.
Speaker 2: What I'm imagining is like an office water cooler in
Speaker 2: stainless steel and a public place.
Speaker 1: Yes, amazing. Why doesn't that.
Speaker 2: Exist one every few Why because Big Water said, we've
Speaker 2: got Mount Franklin desani Evian here, I'm going to charge
Speaker 2: a premium for it.
Speaker 1: What do you think the markup is on water?
Speaker 3: They should have a carbon footprint thing that they've got
Speaker 3: to do, because it sickens me.
Speaker 1: I'm holding water right here.
Speaker 2: And they said this bottle is made from a hundred
Speaker 2: scent recycled plastic, which means this isn't even the first
Speaker 2: iteration of this bottle. How much money has this bottle
Speaker 2: made on itself? I don't trust it the first time.
Speaker 2: Maybe it costs twenty cents to make, then you recycle
Speaker 2: the same bottle made it again, probably cost you five
Speaker 2: cents to make. How much they're paying for this water?
Speaker 1: For all?
Speaker 3: I see you're trying to rationalize while you drinking so
Speaker 3: much bottle water.
Speaker 1: But I'll let you do that, Oh, not rationalizing.
Speaker 2: I went from being like the water tastes funny, that
Speaker 2: I'm not going to drink water too, Like the water
Speaker 2: tastes funny, but I need to hydrate, so I'm picking
Speaker 2: myself over the planet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's time. Yeah, good on you for admitting it.
Speaker 1: Of course it's freaks me out. But alas you're listening
Speaker 1: to flex and frooms on Kita social media, what do
Speaker 1: you know about it? Can't live with it, can't live
Speaker 1: without it?
Speaker 2: Every day chat chit chat. The algorithms are changing, People
Speaker 2: are depressed. It's not good for your mental health. Screen
Speaker 2: time is up, and it's like, I'm getting it. We
Speaker 2: all seem like we're in this phase where we can
Speaker 2: observe the issues quite clearly, like we understand what is
Speaker 2: wrong with it, But what I'm trying to figure out
Speaker 2: is like what will make it right? How are we
Speaker 2: going to fix this thing that we have intertwined our
Speaker 2: lives with so tightly? And I get you know, there's
Speaker 2: the alternative like just log off. Okay, that's one option,
Speaker 2: But how do we make social media good?
Speaker 1: How do we make it healthy? How do we make
Speaker 1: it productive?
Speaker 2: How do we make it entertaining, and not in spite
Speaker 2: of people, because for every funny meme I hear or
Speaker 2: see that makes me laugh, somebody's getting doxed, getting bullied,
Speaker 2: getting like just having the worst time ever.
Speaker 1: What is the plan? What does a social media utopia
Speaker 1: look like for you?
Speaker 2: For me?
Speaker 1: For me, I don't think social media or utopia exists.
Speaker 3: Hm. I think it just the way that it's inherently made.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it can be good. I think
Speaker 3: the one thing can be good is, for example, the
Speaker 3: be Real example, which is like keeping in contact with
Speaker 3: friends and family when the gamified elements are taken out
Speaker 3: of it and the algorithmic things are taken.
Speaker 1: Out of it.
Speaker 3: If there was no commerce involved, then yet it could
Speaker 3: be cool. Like I know, early Internet days on forums
Speaker 3: and stuff like, there's a lot of knowledge gathering and
Speaker 3: knowledge sharing, which is kind of I think the initial
Speaker 3: point of social media, but the minute that it's public,
Speaker 3: it's kind of like what we speak about. Why you're
Speaker 3: a bit skeptical of be Real, I believe is because
Speaker 3: you think it's inherently a performance, even though it's kind
Speaker 3: of touted as you know, be Real.
Speaker 1: And I love a performance.
Speaker 2: Let's just be honest with ourselves, like who doesn't like
Speaker 2: little like pin e validation like something for you here.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the fun bit, is it? Not like
Speaker 2: we still want it, It's just we want to feel
Speaker 2: better about wanting it, so we say, I just want
Speaker 2: to be authentic, like I don't want stanges looking at me.
Speaker 2: I just want friends tell me I'm hot. I will say, though,
Speaker 2: I like the point you made about how in the
Speaker 2: early inception of the Internet it was more forum based
Speaker 2: and made for like a knowledge exchange, which I think
Speaker 2: is a big thing that's missing because like, yes, there
Speaker 2: is a knowledge exchange, but for a very shallow reason
Speaker 2: of like we know that educational content gets more and
Speaker 2: a longer watch time. Therefore I'll make it so my
Speaker 2: content get shown in the algorithm.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: But I would love for there to be a time
Speaker 2: where everybody was feeding into the Internet information, like we
Speaker 2: are building this encyclopedic database of stuff. You know what
Speaker 2: that reminds you of when we were having COVID, right,
Speaker 2: and you know, like when Sydney was in lockdown and
Speaker 2: Melbourne wasn't, or vice versa. I was thinking, I hope
Speaker 2: when historians write about what COVID was like in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: They capture it as it was, not like the overarching vibe,
Speaker 2: but as it was for each individual, all little phases
Speaker 2: of the banana bread phase and the walking dates phase,
Speaker 2: and the deactivating social media phase, and all of these
Speaker 2: little micro moments that made it feel really real. That's
Speaker 2: what I want the Internet to be, like. I want
Speaker 2: to see life chronologically from the jump.
Speaker 3: Well, we're not going to know until probably we die.
Speaker 3: I think about this often, for example, with grandparents or
Speaker 3: people that are all than you that have passed away.
Speaker 3: Sometimes they get this thing, yeah, older than us, older
Speaker 3: than us.
Speaker 2: Grandparents, people older than you, you could be ages style,
Speaker 2: you know, slowly.
Speaker 3: I think about this often when I want to connect
Speaker 3: with people that I know that have passed away, but
Speaker 3: they're too old. They died in like two thousand and seven,
Speaker 3: So you try and google their name.
Speaker 1: You might get a little ping.
Speaker 3: With ancestry dot com, but you just wish you could.
Speaker 3: You can't imagine they get further and further away as
Speaker 3: they die. I wonder if having a social media presence
Speaker 3: actually like.
Speaker 1: Remedies that.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if it would though, if we were
Speaker 3: to die tomorrow it's not going to happen. Fingers crossed.
Speaker 1: Would people be able to get an actually accurate no way? Yeah,
Speaker 1: no way.
Speaker 2: So perhaps what we don't need is more social media,
Speaker 2: but like civic social duty, like every day every single
Speaker 2: person has to document something about where they are, what
Speaker 2: they're doing. We need this culture to move forward, Like,
Speaker 2: how are we telling the stories of the future. It's us,
Speaker 2: it's us and frooms. I feel like I give the
Speaker 2: vibe that I'm constantly beefing. I do take the high
Speaker 2: road a lot of the time.
Speaker 1: I think you're willing that assumption into existence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, well then no, I feel like a lot
Speaker 2: of for like interpersonal things like social stuff. I'll take
Speaker 2: the high road when it comes to work in my
Speaker 2: livelihood though, No, not taking the high road all about principle.
Speaker 2: Things need to be right and in my favor. Did
Speaker 2: not come to this earth, Like think about all the
Speaker 2: babies who could not be born, and I get to
Speaker 2: exist on this green earth green? I want greenish? Yeah
Speaker 2: it's green and ghana, is it?
Speaker 3: Really?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I digress on this green earth and I only get
Speaker 2: one chance to be here. I'm not falling for these
Speaker 2: mortal tricks of not having things my way.
Speaker 1: True.
Speaker 2: So in this new apartment I moved into, I thought
Speaker 2: I'd be doing a favor by splurging, you know, stretching
Speaker 2: the budget a little bit, going luxury because I'm here.
Speaker 2: I mean, like, yeah, secure apartment. Here are the perks
Speaker 2: we've got. You know, ducted air con, you know, different power.
Speaker 2: You can control the AIRCN from any which room and
Speaker 2: it's for that specific room in itself. Why in the
Speaker 2: first week was there a mystery leak in the rumpest room,
Speaker 2: not not the rumpers room, leak in the rumpers room
Speaker 2: coming from the bar.
Speaker 1: Okay, this is very well, that's a bar. There's a bar. Wow,
Speaker 1: not stopped because who's drinking it? Not me? So that
Speaker 1: was number one.
Speaker 2: Then there was heaps of rain, and you know Sydney
Speaker 2: in the rain, it's never great. So mystery leaks happening
Speaker 2: to be expected. Upon signing the lease, I was told
Speaker 2: that the carpets were going to get changed that week.
Speaker 2: Three months later, they still one have been changed. Carpets remain,
Speaker 2: carpets remain. They've been fixed. Now, thank goodness. I get
Speaker 2: a call one fateful afternoon to say that the basement
Speaker 2: in our apartment has been flooding, and I'm the only
Speaker 2: apartment on top of the basement, so it must be me.
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, mean, what did I do, strong shower?
Speaker 1: It was me.
Speaker 2: Turns out my dishwasher was installed. There was a snip
Speaker 2: in the pipe and it could have been when they
Speaker 2: were like unboxing it. So every time I run the dishwasher,
Speaker 2: it was like going down into the pipes and then
Speaker 2: like it collapsed or something. I said, Okay, by a technicality,
Speaker 2: it was me, but it wasn't actually me. And know
Speaker 2: I'm saying, up until this apartment though, I wasn't a
Speaker 2: dishwasher user.
Speaker 1: So get into the dishwasher.
Speaker 2: I'm loving it. I finally understand what's going on. I've
Speaker 2: got the cycle. This is efficient. Now I can't use
Speaker 2: the dishwasher because the realtors like, you're gotta get a
Speaker 2: technician out there. Tell me why I'm here, double text
Speaker 2: and triple texting this technician for the last three weeks.
Speaker 2: This man will not respond to me until one day
Speaker 2: we happened to be on a call at the time.
Speaker 2: He said, in the window of fifteen minutes, I'm coming now, Yeah.
Speaker 1: They do that. What do you mean He's a man
Speaker 1: on a mission.
Speaker 3: It's like, I feel like you sometimes operate as if
Speaker 3: time is your.
Speaker 1: Well, but we both I'm like, it's a schedule.
Speaker 2: It's like just say like you didn't even like he
Speaker 2: hadn't responded to any message, Hey, like when do you
Speaker 2: want to come? Hey?
Speaker 1: Like what day can I block out for you? Hey?
Speaker 2: Like, just wanted to know I'm coming now? Don't we
Speaker 2: all have jobs? Who's just available?
Speaker 1: He's a big follower of yours scene.
Speaker 2: So I'm like, no, wasting your own time and wasting
Speaker 2: my time because I wasn't available in this random fifteen
Speaker 2: minute window of a twenty four hour day. So today
Speaker 2: actually he calls and he's like, I'm on my way.
Speaker 2: I'm like, again, I asked you three days ago what
Speaker 2: time would be available this week so I could make
Speaker 2: sure someone's there. Now you're saying you're coming. Are you
Speaker 2: actually coming or it's just a vibe of yours? He's
Speaker 2: like yeah, yeah, no, no, no, I'll be there this morning.
Speaker 2: This is about like eight thirty nine, nine o'clock. I
Speaker 2: was like, okay, great, send my assistant over, send her over.
Speaker 2: Why at one o'clock She's like, yeah, he's not here yet.
Speaker 1: She's dearly darling in the house.
Speaker 2: He was just annoying. But then she's like, he's come in.
Speaker 2: He'll say Joe Rogan tomb raider.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 2: I said, I don't know what that means, Like it's
Speaker 2: two different vibes. Like what does that mean? She said
Speaker 2: in a scary way, like he's dressed like tomb rader.
Speaker 2: I was like, what describe it? She said, like he's
Speaker 2: so jacked and it's so serious. I said, wow, my
Speaker 2: King too bad. I'm fighting with him. She says his
Speaker 2: setup isn't like a normal plumber. I said, okay, we'll
Speaker 2: be safe. Well wishes, well wishes. She said, like the
Speaker 2: toolpack is like this backpack that opens up and all
Speaker 2: the tools are in there. This man needs to be
Speaker 2: in a spy movie. I said, maybe he is. Yeah,
Speaker 2: she said he's wearing this crazy leather gloves. Short king, though,
Speaker 2: I said, oh, and there it is. She didn't die
Speaker 2: because she's still texting me. But God, now I'm understanding
Speaker 2: his positioning a bit better. He's not just some dishwasher technician.
Speaker 2: He is probably the best and only person for that job.
Speaker 2: The manufacturer is probably like rinsing him dry because everyone's
Speaker 2: dishwashers are breaking. He's running an operation that runs on
Speaker 2: his time because he can't pick and choose when the
Speaker 2: crises are happening. He's a rogue operator. Yeah, doing the
Speaker 2: lord's work. Literally, I think that's gonna be fixed now.
Speaker 1: Do you know what? Also I reckon I has happened. Yes.
Speaker 2: The overwhelming or the overarching theme that happens when things
Speaker 2: get done in my house is when I'm not nice.
Speaker 2: I send the emails like.
Speaker 1: Hey, how you going? Just wanted to know, Hey, how
Speaker 1: you going whatever? Whatever?
Speaker 2: Once I get stern, no, please, no thank you, nothing
Speaker 2: like no quote unquote gendered responses. Clickity clack get into
Speaker 2: it anyway, So hopefully there's no more updates in that realm.
Speaker 2: I'm currently waiting for a dining table. It's meant to
Speaker 2: come yesterday, it's today. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I wish you good luck, Hunt, Thank you. You've been
Speaker 3: listening to The Flukes and Frooms Daily podcast. For more,
Speaker 3: tune its cat on DAB or stream it on iHeartRadio.