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Speaker 1: Well he's been breaking news left, right and center over

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Speaker 1: the last week. It is Matt Cunningham from Sky News

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Speaker 1: and yet again another story, this time the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: government and the judiciary at Loggerheads. I've a plan to

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Speaker 1: hold court hearings on prison ground's Matt Cunningham, Good morning.

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Speaker 2: Good morning coatie mate.

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Speaker 1: What is this story all about.

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Speaker 2: Well, my understanding is that the government's been working on

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Speaker 2: a proposal to try to address some of the issues

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Speaker 2: we've been seeing in the court system, in particular the

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Speaker 2: backlog in court cases, the growing number of prisoners on remand,

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Speaker 2: and as well the costs of escorting prisoners to and

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Speaker 2: from court. We know that Matthew Valley, the Corrections Commissioner,

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Speaker 2: said only a week or so ago that the overtime

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Speaker 2: built for corrections staff was twenty one million dollars last

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Speaker 2: financial year. So this plan basically is that the court

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Speaker 2: would sit on the grounds of the prison. Now, if

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Speaker 2: you've been out to are in prison, for example, will

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Speaker 2: know that the prison grounds. You enter the gate onto

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Speaker 2: the prison grounds where there's like a public car park,

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Speaker 2: and there's several buildings that are outside the main wall

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Speaker 2: of the prison. So my understanding is that the proposal

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Speaker 2: would be for court hearings to be held there, so

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Speaker 2: it would actually be on the prison grounds, but not

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Speaker 2: inside the prison itself. But I believe that the judiciary

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Speaker 2: is not too keen on the idea. My understanding is

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Speaker 2: that it's been put to the judges and they've rejected it,

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Speaker 2: but the government's still keen to push her head. So

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Speaker 2: there's a bit of a doing and throwing going on

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Speaker 2: between the government and the judiciary over this issue. I'd

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Speaker 2: put direct questions to the Attorney General, Mary Claire Boothby,

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Speaker 2: so this is what she said. She says, we are

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Speaker 2: working collaboratively with legal staff and services, courts, judges and

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Speaker 2: corrections to explore all options to streamline court processes and

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Speaker 2: tackle the crime and corrections crisis left by labor. All

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Speaker 2: options are on the table when it comes to reforming

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Speaker 2: our legal system. We are actively working to address demand

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Speaker 2: pressure and are exploring all options, with potential announcements coming soon.

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Speaker 2: So it certainly sounds like this plan is definitely high

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Speaker 2: on the government's agender. I also put the question. I

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Speaker 2: put it directly to the court several times verbally and

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Speaker 2: in writing as to where the Chief Judge Elizabeth Morris

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Speaker 2: had been asked the question about this plan and whether

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Speaker 2: she had rejected it. Now, the court wouldn't answer that

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Speaker 2: question directly, but they have sent me a statement that

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Speaker 2: says it is a fundamental rule of the common law

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Speaker 2: that the administration of justice must take place in open court,

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Speaker 2: and open justice is one of the fundamental attributes of

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Speaker 2: a fair trial. The rationale of the open court principle

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Speaker 2: is that court proceedings should be subjected to public and

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Speaker 2: professional scrutiny. It is also the case that the public

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Speaker 2: administration of justice is essential to maintaining the community's confidence

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Speaker 2: in the integrity and independence of the courts. Now, if

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Speaker 2: you look into that statement, see where the tension is

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Speaker 2: coming from. I mean the government. I think its plan

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Speaker 2: is to hold these hearings on the prison's grounds, but

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Speaker 2: not actually inside the prison. So I actually don't know

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Speaker 2: whether they are making plans around this for there this

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Speaker 2: is still to be an open court where the public,

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Speaker 2: the media, etc. Etc. Can go in, or whether it

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Speaker 2: would be something that would be off limits. Now I

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Speaker 2: think it's the former, but the judges are clearly working

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Speaker 2: on the presumption that this would be some kind of

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Speaker 2: close court you know, your every day Joe wouldn't be

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Speaker 2: able to get in, So perhaps that's something that still

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Speaker 2: needs to be nutted out. But I think you can

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Speaker 2: tell from that statement or those statements that this is

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Speaker 2: clearly a plan that's on the table one of the

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Speaker 2: government's pursuing. But there's quite a bit of pushback at

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Speaker 2: the moment from judges who clearly don't think it's a

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Speaker 2: good idea.

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Speaker 1: Well be keen to hear from our listeners this morning

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Speaker 1: zero four double nine s Evan double one at three

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Speaker 1: six zero what they think about this idea of potentially

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Speaker 1: you know, having those having those hearings or those cases

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Speaker 1: on the grounds of you know, the correctional facility, not

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Speaker 1: behind the wire, but on the grounds there. And so,

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Speaker 1: matt the idea behind this, I'm assuming is that it

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Speaker 1: would move things along quite quickly in terms of not

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Speaker 1: having to transport prisoners. I mean, we've got more than

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Speaker 1: fifty percent of prisoners on remand, is what we'd heard

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Speaker 1: just a couple of weeks ago from Matthew Valley. I

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Speaker 1: don't know whether that's changed a little bit or not,

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Speaker 1: but the fact is we have got so many prisoners

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Speaker 1: on remand our court systems absolutely clogged up. Something we've

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Speaker 1: got to look at some innovative ideas here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the government's trying to look at two

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Speaker 2: things here. One is the issue that you touch on there.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, twenty seven hundred roughly people in

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Speaker 2: prison and about half of them on remand so they

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Speaker 2: want to try and get through that backlog as quickly

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Speaker 2: as they possibly can. And the other issue, as I

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Speaker 2: touched on before, is just this huge cost of escored

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Speaker 2: prisoners from the prison to the court and also to

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Speaker 2: the hospital. And my understanding is the government also looking

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Speaker 2: whether the medical facilities that are on the prison grounds

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Speaker 2: there can be better utilized to cut down on the

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Speaker 2: number of hospital transfers that are happening. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: don't know if you've ever been out there camp, but

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Speaker 2: there is a massive medical center at that prison that

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Speaker 2: was only built and open just over ten years ago.

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Speaker 2: It's quite a detailed facilities, but my understanding is that

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Speaker 2: it's often underutilized and it's been used for different things

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Speaker 2: over the years rather than it's intended purpose. So that's

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Speaker 2: something the government's looking at as well. I think it's

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Speaker 2: also sorry I was just going to say, I think

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Speaker 2: It's also interesting to note I think there's a growing

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Speaker 2: tension between the government and the judiciary over a number

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Speaker 2: of issues. And we heard the Chief Minister on your

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Speaker 2: program on Monday and in other interviews this week as well,

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Speaker 2: publicly criticizing, you'd say, the decision of the judge last

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Speaker 2: week Grant bail To.

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Speaker 1: She told me she was furious about it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and we are seeing. I mean, there's always

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Speaker 2: supposed to be this separation between church and state, if

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Speaker 2: you like, but the Chief Minister certainly has not been

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Speaker 2: pulling her punches when it comes to being publicly critical

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Speaker 2: of the judiciary, and certainly of the judge in that case.

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Speaker 2: So I think that is something that will be won't

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Speaker 2: be received well by judges who don't like the idea

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Speaker 2: of government's criticizing them. And I think there's quite a

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Speaker 2: bit of growing tension there between the government and the judiciary.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the government's in a bit of a rock

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Speaker 1: and a hard place here though as well, Matt, aren't

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Speaker 1: they like We spoke to MARIW Clear boothby the Attorney

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Speaker 1: General about this on Friday during the week that was,

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Speaker 1: and the community like the anger was palpable last week

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Speaker 1: following on from the story that you'd broken about that

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Speaker 1: seventeen year old that had been bailed and then you know,

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Speaker 1: seven thousand dollars being spent for him to be able

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Speaker 1: to attend a funeral. You know, if the government didn't

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Speaker 1: speak out and didn't actually say that they didn't think

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Speaker 1: it was in line with communities expectations, the community had

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Speaker 1: start to be screaming at the government.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's right, and you know, we know that the

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Speaker 2: mandate that they came to power with and they're clearly

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Speaker 2: serious about implementing that mandate. That has meant that we've

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Speaker 2: seen a significant increase in the number of people in prison.

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Speaker 2: I think it's gone up from about twenty two hundred

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Speaker 2: in August last year to about twenty seven hundred now.

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Speaker 2: But the government's making no apologies. So that was interesting.

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Speaker 2: Mary claibooth be the Attorney General on Friday saying that

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Speaker 2: they're going to even look again at the Bail Act

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Speaker 2: and might go even further. And we're talking about, you know,

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Speaker 2: potentially getting to the point where there's little or no

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Speaker 2: discretion for judges in some of these cases. So again

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Speaker 2: that's something that won't be well received by the judiciary.

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Speaker 2: I don't think, but there's clearly disagreement. There's clearly tension

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Speaker 2: there between this government and the mandate that they believe

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Speaker 2: that they have, and they're trying to YEA and the

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Speaker 2: judiciary and more broadly people in the legal system than

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Speaker 2: the way they believe thinks she operates.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Matt, just before I let you go, one of

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Speaker 1: the other things the Chief Minister had said on the

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Speaker 1: show on Monday that I thought was really interesting is

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Speaker 1: she had said that one of the first things she

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Speaker 1: thought to herself after finding out that that young person

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Speaker 1: had absconded. As we touched on and spoke extensively about

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Speaker 1: last week, one of the first things that she asked herself,

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Speaker 1: and she's then asked obviously of the department. I'm assuming

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Speaker 1: as well, is how many other times has there been

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Speaker 1: situations where somebody's been bailed or where the department has

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Speaker 1: had to pay for them to attend a funeral or

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Speaker 1: to attend something else.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean she's asked the question. It'll be

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Speaker 2: interesting to see.

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Speaker 1: She gets an answer, she gets it well.

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Speaker 2: I know this is another frustration of the government that

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Speaker 2: this government is the difficulty that they've had. I think

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Speaker 2: we touched on on Friday. Yeah, but the difficulty they've

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Speaker 2: had at times getting information out of departments and information

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Speaker 2: that they believe that as the government they should be receiving.

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Speaker 2: So you know, there's a new sheriff in town, Katie,

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Speaker 2: and I think we're playing by different rules. So interesting times.

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Speaker 1: Well do you know what. There's messages coming through about

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Speaker 1: this already this morning, people saying, what a great idea

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Speaker 1: moving the courts to the prison. I can't believe we

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Speaker 1: aren't already doing it, and now that they've suggested it,

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Speaker 1: consolidating resources, but we need to ensure victims will be

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Speaker 1: able to attend so they witness the justice that they deserve.

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Speaker 1: That one they're from tigues, you know, they're just some

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Speaker 1: of That's just one of the messages coming through. The

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Speaker 1: tech signs already lighting up, Matt And you know, I

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Speaker 1: think at the end of the day, we need to

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Speaker 1: be looking at doing things differently. I'm certainly not an

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Speaker 1: expert when it comes to the judicial system, nor would

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Speaker 1: I profess to be, but it looks as though the

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Speaker 1: government is intent on trying to speed things up.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's no doubt about that, Katie. And there's no

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Speaker 2: doubt that they need to. I mean, the justice system

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Speaker 2: at the moment is in absolute crisis, and we've spoken

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Speaker 2: about it for a long time, and even before the election.

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Speaker 2: You know, you've had all of the issues that we've

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Speaker 2: seen with NAJA, with the backlog in the courts, just

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Speaker 2: you know, the system is clearly overwhelmed and we're seeing

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Speaker 2: more and more people being arrested and put before the

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Speaker 2: courts and at the moment the courts just can't keep up.

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Speaker 2: So I'd be interesting interested to hear more of the

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Speaker 2: feedback from your listeners about this one, because some might

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Speaker 2: say it's a pretty innovative plan, but yes, clearly one

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Speaker 2: that I don't think is being particularly well received by

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Speaker 2: the judiciary at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Well, Matt Cunningham, we will no doubt hear more about

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Speaker 1: it throughout the morning and throughout the week, breaking lots

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Speaker 1: of news at the moment, aren't.

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Speaker 2: Your mate, That's what they pay me for, apparently it is.

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Speaker 1: It is, Matt Cunningham, good to catch up with you.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Gadie, thank you