Speaker 1: This is Outspoken. The podcast is not afraid to say
Speaker 1: exactly what you're thinking. Our names are Amy Kate and
Speaker 1: Sophie Torbor.
Speaker 2: We're identical triplets, but we often.
Speaker 1: Don't have identical opinions, so sometimes things can get heated.
Speaker 1: Outspoken covers all things reality TV, influences, entertainment, and issues
Speaker 1: facing women.
Speaker 3: That is so fetch Thank you.
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Outspoken. Thank you for joining us again.
Speaker 1: Now it is a momentous week for us because Sophie
Speaker 1: is becoming a mother, well a fur mother, and we
Speaker 1: have been counting down the days as it has been
Speaker 1: eight weeks now. SOPHI, yeah, it's been eight very very
Speaker 1: long weeks. I have had like a countdown going since
Speaker 1: week six. I keep sending my boyfriend Brandon updates of
Speaker 1: how many more sleeps it is. It is currently four
Speaker 1: more sleeps till mister Archie comes into my life. And
Speaker 1: there is a bit of contentious issues around the name
Speaker 1: because I think you should be calling the dog Manuka
Speaker 1: because it is a goalded.
Speaker 2: This is great.
Speaker 1: Off the back of our puppy farming topic yesterday, It's
Speaker 1: definitely not from a puppy farm, is it. Sophie's from
Speaker 1: a very prestigious breeder and Adelaide it is the only
Speaker 1: one that breeds golden coccusstig. Well, yeah, well it's a
Speaker 1: golden It's a golden Cocker Spaniel. And what's funny about
Speaker 1: that is that Sophie's boyfriend's last name is Hancock.
Speaker 2: But don't you.
Speaker 1: Think that it would be really cute to be called
Speaker 1: Manuka because it's a honey flavor.
Speaker 2: Manuka Honey, it's a that's a girl's.
Speaker 1: Name, though, No, I think it's unisex. Well, I think
Speaker 1: Archie because we've got Meghan and Harry who have Archie,
Speaker 1: Master Archie. We can call him archiball if he's being naughty.
Speaker 2: But do you know what Archie?
Speaker 1: The name Archie for a dog is like a diamond,
Speaker 1: doesn't if I you know, if you want this dog
Speaker 1: to go off on Instagram, which I think you do
Speaker 1: because you've already made an Instagram account for the dog
Speaker 1: by actually having it, I think you should call it
Speaker 1: Manuka if anyone would like to go and follow him.
Speaker 1: It's Archie and it's got a golden Cocker Spaniel potentially
Speaker 1: changed to Minuka.
Speaker 2: Well, I feel like spaniel.
Speaker 1: Well, I feel like when you're at the dog park,
Speaker 1: you're gonna really feel that there are a lot of
Speaker 1: archies out there. When you call him back and there's
Speaker 1: like ten dogs come running at you, I think you're
Speaker 1: gonna regret not calling a mahanookah. The thing that I'm
Speaker 1: most worried about is I've done so much research into
Speaker 1: Cocker spaniels and apparently they we every thirty minutes, which
Speaker 1: is similar to me. I've got a very very small bladder,
Speaker 1: So we'll be getting along just fine. Well, in regards
Speaker 1: to the name, we will put a poll up and
Speaker 1: to see if you agree with Kate and I that
Speaker 1: Sophie should call her puppy manookah or if she should
Speaker 1: just call it Archie. What about Winston, I know that
Speaker 1: was a name that we allso his name.
Speaker 2: Is already on his official.
Speaker 1: Breeders letters can be changed.
Speaker 2: Manookah.
Speaker 1: Look, I think that Amy and I, even though were aunties,
Speaker 1: we probably have no writing naming. Well. I think if
Speaker 1: I'm paying two and a half grand for this dog,
Speaker 1: I should be able to name it. Well. Anyway, let's
Speaker 1: move along, and I'm sure Sophie will be inundating The
Speaker 1: outspoken Instagram feed with pictures of Archie. Have you been
Speaker 1: wondering why there's an influx of influencers promoting alcohol on
Speaker 1: your news feed? Like many businesses, the alcohol industry has
Speaker 1: been forced to pivot their marketing to reflect social distancing
Speaker 1: and self isolation. And with influencers normal brand deals falling
Speaker 1: through thanks to the pandemic, many have lined up payments
Speaker 1: through alcohol brands. Sob, can you explain to us just
Speaker 1: how prevalent alcohol advertising is in the influencer sphere? Well,
Speaker 1: even before lockdown, alcohol advertising with influencers has been incredibly prevalent.
Speaker 1: I mean you look at a recent study by vic
Speaker 1: Health and it shows that three quarters of Australia's top
Speaker 1: seventy influencers feature alcohol in their posts, and worryingly, only
Speaker 1: a quarter of those actually reveal that these posts are
Speaker 1: sponsored and have been paid for. And vic Health has
Speaker 1: described the alcohol's industry's use of social media as completely
Speaker 1: underhanded and says that it is used to influence young children. Well,
Speaker 1: one bit of info I found really interesting was the
Speaker 1: a that influencers are actually allowed to promote alcohol. I
Speaker 1: didn't realize that you had to be over the age
Speaker 1: of twenty five to actually be advertising alcohol. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: really surprised me because it made me reflect there are
Speaker 1: a lot of big influencers out there who have been
Speaker 1: pretty quiet in the alcohol space. While they'll show themselves drinking,
Speaker 1: I haven't seen them officially advertising alcohol.
Speaker 2: That was an interesting revelation.
Speaker 1: Well, a few years back there was actually a campaign
Speaker 1: from a vodka cruser company, and they received a lot
Speaker 1: of complaints because the model that they used in their
Speaker 1: ad looked a lot younger than eighteen. She was over eighteen,
Speaker 1: but people said she looked as if she was a teenager,
Speaker 1: and so there were a lot of complaints. She even
Speaker 1: part of the ad showed her using glitter to cover
Speaker 1: up dark circles around her eyes, which are obviously caused
Speaker 1: from heavy drinking as well, which a lot of people
Speaker 1: thought was a bit unnecessary. I do find this whole
Speaker 1: over twenty five thing pretty interesting because for someone who
Speaker 1: has always been idd up until my late twenties, I
Speaker 1: always got annoyed because apparently the and selling the alcohol
Speaker 1: must think that you look over twenty five. So it's
Speaker 1: quite interesting that even an influencer who can legally drink
Speaker 1: isn't actually allowed to advertise an alcoholic product. But how
Speaker 1: many influencers who are over twenty five, how many would
Speaker 1: you confuse for being in the early twenties as well.
Speaker 1: I mean it opens up a camera. I think it's
Speaker 1: quite the opposite. Chloe Zepp, I literally thought she was
Speaker 1: in her late twenties and I found out she's only
Speaker 1: twenty one. So it's quite interesting that she can't advertise
Speaker 1: alcohol even though she has been. We'll get into that
Speaker 1: a little bit later. The other thing that I didn't
Speaker 1: know was that if you are promoting alcohol, twenty five
Speaker 1: percent of your audience can't be under the age of eighteen,
Speaker 1: which is a rule that I didn't know was in place,
Speaker 1: and it is a good rule to have. That is good,
Speaker 1: but on social media you can be so deceptive with
Speaker 1: your age. I remember making accounts back in the day
Speaker 1: for our little cousins on Facebook, and I think you
Speaker 1: had to be over thirteen, and we of course just
Speaker 1: put that they were over thirteen when there were eight
Speaker 1: and ten.
Speaker 2: That is such a.
Speaker 1: Good point, And the thing that a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't realize is in Australia, the alcohol industry self regulates
Speaker 1: it's advertising, which means that there's no government body to
Speaker 1: intervene and to keep people accountable. Yeah, and that means
Speaker 1: that an alcohol company can put out an ad on
Speaker 1: social media and it doesn't have to be approved by
Speaker 1: the government. It just has to meet these certain code
Speaker 1: of ethics. However, as Soav said, that's a self regulated
Speaker 1: code of ethics, and while people can make complaints to
Speaker 1: the Advertising Standards Bureau, it's just a system where they
Speaker 1: then look into it and the ad is taken down.
Speaker 1: So what I found really interesting is that when an
Speaker 1: influencer works with an alcohol brand, if it is deemed
Speaker 1: that the ad doesn't meet this code of ethics, then
Speaker 1: the add has just pulled. The influencer has to delete
Speaker 1: their post, but there's no onus on the influencer to
Speaker 1: ensure that that post meets the standards, which I found
Speaker 1: really interesting. In light of Kendall Jenner getting sued for
Speaker 1: her involvement in advertising the Fire Festival, it seems like
Speaker 1: the Australian law is a lot more lenient on influencers
Speaker 1: than it is in say the UK and America, where
Speaker 1: we have seen an influx of influence advertising alcohol during
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen Kate, how has alcohol marketing changed since the pandemic. Well,
Speaker 1: just like a lot of other industries, the alcohol industry
Speaker 1: has had to pivot their marketing to reflect social distancing
Speaker 1: and self isolation. So many have taken this opportunity to
Speaker 1: capitalize on people staying at home by promoting their contact
Speaker 1: less home deliveries, which is raising a lot of issues
Speaker 1: because that means that people don't have to show ID.
Speaker 1: So you can be a kid and you can go
Speaker 1: in order from BWUS alcohol and then the alcohol has
Speaker 1: just dropped at your door. The delivery person doesn't have
Speaker 1: to see who's getting the alcohol.
Speaker 2: So it's a bit of a worry what you don't
Speaker 2: even have to put in your ID.
Speaker 1: Well, you could literally take your parents' ID, put the
Speaker 1: details in at the checkout and then it's just dropped
Speaker 1: off at the door. I think the other thing that
Speaker 1: is worrying is a lot of brand seem to be
Speaker 1: promoting stockpiling and heavy consumption of alcohol during this time
Speaker 1: as well. I mean, you look at Thirsty Camel and
Speaker 1: they were made to remove a Facebook post because it
Speaker 1: joked about customers stockpiling their goods as opposed to toilet paper,
Speaker 1: and they were made to remove this post. But it
Speaker 1: does come into question whether brands can actually use humor
Speaker 1: or memes to convey a particular message during this time. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: I think with the Thirsty Camel example, they had a
Speaker 1: complaint made and their response was, well, it was in
Speaker 1: humor and it was in good fun, but it actually
Speaker 1: had to be taken down because it did breach the
Speaker 1: code of ethics. And I think it's interesting to note
Speaker 1: that obviously during the pandemic a lot of bars and
Speaker 1: clubs have been closed, and that has meant that alcohol
Speaker 1: consumption in bottle shops in the last week of March
Speaker 1: actually rose eighty six percent compared to the year before. Well,
Speaker 1: I've had heaps of friends who say that they can't
Speaker 1: believe how often they've now been to b ws's or
Speaker 1: you drive through alcohol places since the pandemic. Well, it's
Speaker 1: fairly obvious because I've seen a lot of my own
Speaker 1: friends and people I know that are drinking more. And
Speaker 1: I think it's because when you're working at home, there's
Speaker 1: no differentiation between the weekend and a week night.
Speaker 2: It just seems like a lot.
Speaker 1: Of people are awarding themselves with alcohol, which is their choice.
Speaker 1: But I suppose it does trickle down into people that
Speaker 1: are at home with kids and that becoming a normalized
Speaker 1: thing to do.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 1: I have seen a lot of posts that are sort
Speaker 1: of promoting alcohol as a relaxant. So, whether it's just
Speaker 1: mums who are saying, oh, I'm having a wine tonight
Speaker 1: because basically the kids are home from school when they're
Speaker 1: driving me mental, but there are apparently laws around promoting
Speaker 1: alcohol as a relaxant.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: One of the codes says that that you must not
Speaker 1: suggest the consumption of alcohol may create or contribute to
Speaker 1: a significant change in mood or environment, or suggests that
Speaker 1: it offers any therapeutic benefits. And I think that what
Speaker 1: has landed a lot of alcohol brands in hot water
Speaker 1: at the moment, because that seems to be their key
Speaker 1: marketing strategy. A lot have also started offering care packages
Speaker 1: as well. I think in terms of promoting alcohol as
Speaker 1: a relaxant, I think BWS as Good wines Chat has
Speaker 1: really done that. So they've got comedian Celeste Barber as
Speaker 1: the face of their campaign, and obviously everyone loves Celest
Speaker 1: and she's Hilens and she is in isolation and the
Speaker 1: first part of the campaign is she's got like a
Speaker 1: towel on her head, she's got a robe on, and
Speaker 1: she's got you know, like the little eyemasks that you
Speaker 1: see everyone in isolation wearing, and she is rewarding herself
Speaker 1: with a glass of champagne.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I was actually shocked when I saw one of her
Speaker 1: recent videos because it showed her it sort of implied
Speaker 1: that she just got out of bed and then the
Speaker 1: BWS had dropped off some drinks to her doorstep, and
Speaker 1: then she pops open the champagne and I think it
Speaker 1: was a wine, sorry, and she starts drinking it in
Speaker 1: the morning, and I would assume that that's almost promoting
Speaker 1: binge drinking in a way. I just felt kind of
Speaker 1: uncomfortable about how it.
Speaker 2: Was all right.
Speaker 1: Well, I think looking closer at bws's campaign, I think
Speaker 1: they have been quite ethical in the influences they have used,
Speaker 1: because a lot of them are a bit of a
Speaker 1: slightly older demographic. You know, you've got Georgia Love who's
Speaker 1: in her thirties, Olivia Rodgers who's late twenties, and also
Speaker 1: Celeste Barbara, as you said, who's in her forties. And
Speaker 1: they've also required all of the influencers to write hashtag
Speaker 1: ad which legally isn't required of them, but is an
Speaker 1: ethical step in making sure that young people don't think
Speaker 1: that this is just what they do it. They're actually
Speaker 1: getting paid for this. The thing is, while they're being
Speaker 1: ethical around it, do you guys actually feel a little
Speaker 1: bit uncomfortable when you do see alcohol being advertised on
Speaker 1: say podcasts or in your Instagram fee Because I'm finding
Speaker 1: it a little bit sort of I don't.
Speaker 2: Know if I like it.
Speaker 1: Well, it's really ramped up, and that is due to
Speaker 1: the pandemic because while a lot of brands marketing budgets
Speaker 1: have dropped off, obviously, the alcohol industry is booming because
Speaker 1: people are ordering more alcohol online and at the bottle shop,
Speaker 1: so they have marketing budget to push onto influencers. So
Speaker 1: maybe an influencer who maybe didn't want to advertise alcohol
Speaker 1: before is actually thinking, well, I might actually have to
Speaker 1: because all my other brand deals have dropped off. Well,
Speaker 1: I've seen a crazy stat that shows that social media
Speaker 1: brands advertising alcohol have risen by three hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: percent during the coronavirus pandemic. And there was a little
Speaker 1: study done on a Friday night and it showed that
Speaker 1: every thirty five seconds there was a new alcohol brand
Speaker 1: advertising something which is pretty scary. Well, I think it's
Speaker 1: also interesting because a lot of alcohol brands invest a
Speaker 1: lot of money into festivals that are obviously not happening
Speaker 1: at the moment, so that means they've got, as we
Speaker 1: were saying before, a bigger budget to spend on influencers. Well,
Speaker 1: on the topic of alcohol promotion and festivals, I didn't
Speaker 1: realize that so many alcohol companies actually paid for influencers
Speaker 1: to go to events like Coachella, And also when there
Speaker 1: are festivals that are sponsored by alcohol companies, I didn't
Speaker 1: realize as well that they will send photographers down to
Speaker 1: get sort of sneaky picks of the festival, but they
Speaker 1: will purposely choose people to pose with cups promoting whatever
Speaker 1: brand it is, or bottles or whatever.
Speaker 2: I suppose it's a.
Speaker 1: Bit like when Canadian Clubs sponsored the Australian Open and
Speaker 1: they had the Canadian Club Bar and they invited a
Speaker 1: lot of influencers to attend.
Speaker 2: I think with festivals as well, I think we're used.
Speaker 1: To seeing clothing brands sending influencers and you don't really
Speaker 1: look into the deals then that they have with alcohol
Speaker 1: brand because you just generally think that influencers are going
Speaker 1: to be drinking at these events. That is true, I mean,
Speaker 1: playing Devil's Advocate, we kind of seem as if we're
Speaker 1: demonizing any influencer that does promote alcohol, which I don't
Speaker 1: necessarily think is a bad thing. I think what I
Speaker 1: find a bit iffy though, is the fact that some
Speaker 1: of the influencers who are being targeted do have a
Speaker 1: very young and impressionable audience. Well that's based on our
Speaker 1: own impression, though, because if we don't have access to
Speaker 1: their analytics, so we really don't know. Like you might
Speaker 1: think that someone has a young audience, but when you
Speaker 1: look into it, they may not. But what I would
Speaker 1: find interesting is how is the audience looked at. So
Speaker 1: someone like Michael Finch or Shiny Grimman, who you may
Speaker 1: think has a young audience, their young audience might all
Speaker 1: be on YouTube, but their older audience might be on Instagram.
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if whatever platform that they choose to advertise on,
Speaker 1: is it just that audience that they look at, Because
Speaker 1: there are people that are huge on YouTube and Instagram
Speaker 1: and Facebook and TikTok. Well TikTok's a big one because
Speaker 1: obviously TikTok have a massively young audience, so it's just
Speaker 1: interesting to see. Is it just that one.
Speaker 2: Platform that they look at now.
Speaker 1: We touched on before that you actually have to be
Speaker 1: over twenty five in order to promote alcohol on Instagram,
Speaker 1: But I actually didn't realize that if you have publicized
Speaker 1: that you have an issue with alcohol, you're actually not
Speaker 1: meant to be able to promote alcohol either, which kind
Speaker 1: of opens another can of worms because we have seen
Speaker 1: Mitchell Orvil recently talk about his issues with alcohol, but
Speaker 1: he's also then when he's talked about his issues with
Speaker 1: alcohol in different podcasts or different interviews, he's then spooked
Speaker 1: his own alcohol business. Yeah. Well, for those who don't
Speaker 1: know Mitchell Orval, he has admitted to being an alcoholic
Speaker 1: and has spoken very openly about his struggles with that
Speaker 1: and also his struggles with drug addiction. And as you say,
Speaker 1: it is kind of an awkward situation because he is
Speaker 1: a recovering alcoholic who runs an alcohol brand, and recently
Speaker 1: they have got quite inventive and creative with the ways
Speaker 1: they're promoting their brand. They're doing a lot of competitions
Speaker 1: in order to give away their their product, and that
Speaker 1: does get them into a little bit of trouble because
Speaker 1: there are rules around promotions of competitions which encourage heavy
Speaker 1: consumption of alcohol. Yeah, so one of their competitions is
Speaker 1: a little bit similar to the Charlie and the Chocolate
Speaker 1: Factory finding the Golden Ticket, except you I think it's
Speaker 1: using your smartphone. You scan the bottle of wine and
Speaker 1: if there's a some sort of gremlin or Genie or
Speaker 1: something I'd like a Pokemon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some sort of character.
Speaker 1: Comes out, you win. I also think in terms of
Speaker 1: the competition, another interesting side of this whole thing with
Speaker 1: Mitchell is the fact that he's actually only twenty three,
Speaker 1: and when I was looking through the Instagram page that
Speaker 1: promotes his alcohol business, his girlfriend Chloe Zepp was obviously
Speaker 1: front of the promotion and she's only twenty one. So
Speaker 1: it is interesting because obviously, as we said, it's a
Speaker 1: self regulated system and it's based on people making complaints,
Speaker 1: but I don't think the everyday person would know that
Speaker 1: that's what the ruling is. So in that scenario, while
Speaker 1: they're sharing photos of Chloe Zepp, my understanding is both
Speaker 1: Mitchell and Chloe own the company. So in terms of
Speaker 1: people actually getting in trouble. They would probably get in
Speaker 1: trouble if they are breaching those guidelines because they're the owners,
Speaker 1: they're not just appearing as influencers. Well that's a really
Speaker 1: tough one though, because if you are a young influencer,
Speaker 1: lots of people make up their own brands. It is
Speaker 1: weird that you can be over eighteen be allowed to
Speaker 1: own the brand, but yet can't appear in the marketing. Well.
Speaker 1: Another very problematic campaign that has come up during COVID
Speaker 1: nineteen is a US beer company called Bush Beer. I
Speaker 1: hope I'm pronouncing that right, because I have not drunk
Speaker 1: a beer in my life for to pronounce Bush beer.
Speaker 1: It's b usc h, so I assume that's Bush anyway.
Speaker 1: So they've had a campaign where in order to win
Speaker 1: three months worth of beer, you have to foster or
Speaker 1: adopt a dog from a rescue center. Now, how many
Speaker 1: problematic issues does that bring up? I mean, are we
Speaker 1: going to have these dogs then having to find a
Speaker 1: new home once this campaign is over?
Speaker 2: Well, what's the issue?
Speaker 1: So you can have some competitions, but you can't have others.
Speaker 2: I thought it was that you you.
Speaker 1: Can't promote a competition where you're sculling alcohol. I'm more
Speaker 1: saying that this campaign is an issue because people are
Speaker 1: going to go out and buy a dog and then
Speaker 1: they are going to probably abandon the dog when they
Speaker 1: haven't won the competition. Specially if it's an alcoholic that
Speaker 1: really wants to win our year supply of beer, is
Speaker 1: it best that we get them to foster a dog. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Well, the rule there is amy that
Speaker 1: marketers must not encourage the excessive or rapid consumption of alcohol.
Speaker 1: So where there are competitions, for instance, like Mitchell Orvil's
Speaker 1: where they're promoting you to find a golden ticket, that
Speaker 1: is encouraging you to buy more and more and more beer,
Speaker 1: so you couldn't do like a neck nomination as an
Speaker 1: Instagram competition. No, probably not anymore. It is interesting because
Speaker 1: the whole issue of influencers promoting alcohol is it is
Speaker 1: really glamorizing alcohol consumption. And I suppose in some way
Speaker 1: binge drinking and daily drinking. And if you look at
Speaker 1: laws surrounding the advertisement of gambling, you're actually not allowed
Speaker 1: to glamorize gambling. So it'll be interesting to see if
Speaker 1: there are laws in the future which stop the glamor
Speaker 1: rization of alcohol. I definitely think there needs to be
Speaker 1: those rules in place. Well, I think the interesting thing
Speaker 1: is that we always seem to be a little bit
Speaker 1: behind with the influencer industry. As we touched upon earlier,
Speaker 1: the Australian laws are very different to the UK and
Speaker 1: American laws and it's sort of reflected in one of
Speaker 1: the campaigns that has been launched by the Alcohol and
Speaker 1: Drug Foundation. So recently, off the back of the pandemic,
Speaker 1: they launched a campaign saying you haven't been drinking alone
Speaker 1: that was based on kids seeing their parents drinking in lockdown.
Speaker 1: The ads centered around kids on stage zoom calls and
Speaker 1: they were repeating commonly used adult phrases in regards to drinking.
Speaker 1: So it's quite interesting that there's this big focus on
Speaker 1: drinking in the home, but not so much on how
Speaker 1: kids are viewing drinking by influential people on the internet
Speaker 1: that are readibly coming into their home as well. Well,
Speaker 1: it's obviously working for alcohol companies because they keep doing it,
Speaker 1: so they're obviously seeing a return on their investment. Well,
Speaker 1: it's also a lot cheaper than paying for a big
Speaker 1: shoot with five models you can't really track that return
Speaker 1: on investment, but you get five influencers in we then
Speaker 1: create their own content.
Speaker 2: So if you look at.
Speaker 1: The BWS, Olivia Rodgers has gone and take in her
Speaker 1: own photo of her and her dog on the couch.
Speaker 1: Georgia Love has filmed her own little video about it.
Speaker 1: So it's like they don't have to pay for the
Speaker 1: production of the video. They're getting that influencers audience, so
Speaker 1: it's probably a lot cheaper than creating a big new
Speaker 1: campaign that they film themselves. You know what's scary though,
Speaker 1: all the ads seem to be targeted at women, and
Speaker 1: there have been stats recently that showed consumption of alcohol
Speaker 1: has risen by at least forty percent for young women,
Speaker 1: and we're seeing more and more young women who are
Speaker 1: going out and are binge drinking. I mean, I'm not
Speaker 1: saying it's not okay for people to enjoy a drink
Speaker 1: on the weekend, but it is a little bit scary
Speaker 1: when you can see the alcohol companies specifically targeting young women,
Speaker 1: not a normalizing I think the thing that is most
Speaker 1: concerning is that the alcohol is of course a depressant,
Speaker 1: so in these times, we we're already feeling anxious and
Speaker 1: stress that's just going to emphasize these feelings further. And
Speaker 1: these effects are creating new habits, as you guys were
Speaker 1: suggesting before, So once we do return to normal, we're
Speaker 1: going to see more people binge drinking during the week
Speaker 1: because it's a new habit that they've developed.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it's this issue of normalizing it, which was
Speaker 1: very apparent in choosing someone like Celeste Barber who everyone
Speaker 1: relates to, and then having her drinking through the day.
Speaker 1: It's almost an excuse that, well, she's doing it, so.
Speaker 2: I can do it as well.
Speaker 1: Well. I just think that instead of being bombarded with
Speaker 1: all of these ads encouraging us to drink, there should
Speaker 1: be some more education around what alcohol can actually do
Speaker 1: to us and the negative effects it's having. But do
Speaker 1: you guys think the onus is on the influencer to
Speaker 1: actually reject these campaigns? Because I know it is a
Speaker 1: hard time for influencers, as we were saying, a lot
Speaker 1: of their income has dropped off because brands can't be
Speaker 1: paying for the advertisement they previously had. But do you
Speaker 1: think a lot of influencers should actually just be.
Speaker 2: Saying, no, I'm not going to do these ads.
Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting you say that, because I did notice
Speaker 1: on the weekend Sarah Davidson, who's an influencer, put out
Speaker 1: a video and she had partnered up with Jacob Creek Wines.
Speaker 1: And in the video, it showed her in a husband
Speaker 1: putting together a boozy lunch for her family. But in
Speaker 1: the caption of the video, she said that she doesn't
Speaker 1: really regularly partake in drinking. And I found that odd
Speaker 1: because for someone who also doesn't drink regularly, I would
Speaker 1: find it weird to be approached by an alcohol company
Speaker 1: and then be putting out an ad saying, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: buy this alcohol when I don't actually drink it.
Speaker 2: It kind of took the validity away from the ad. Well,
Speaker 2: she did it in a clever way though, because she
Speaker 2: obviously doesn't drink.
Speaker 1: That's why she put on the lunch for her family,
Speaker 1: So it was clever of her to actually promote it
Speaker 1: in that way rather than her just pretending she was
Speaker 1: drinking it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I think it was one of the better ads.
Speaker 1: Well. The thing that didn't really sit well with me
Speaker 1: was seeing a number of influencers who are mental health
Speaker 1: advocates promoting alcohol is this kind of self care product,
Speaker 1: and as I touched on because it is a depressant. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it just didn't align well with me. It just didn't
Speaker 1: sit well with me. I get what you're saying, but
Speaker 1: I think it's a bit unfair because I think even
Speaker 1: if you are a mental health advocate, you can responsibly
Speaker 1: enjoy a drink. So I don't know, but I think
Speaker 1: if your audience has made up for people following you
Speaker 1: because you are that advocate, it is a bit troubling.
Speaker 2: Do you know what though?
Speaker 1: I mean, I look at some of those ads and
Speaker 1: I see straight through, I'm like, that's an ad.
Speaker 2: Well, it would have been.
Speaker 1: Nice if people had used the hashtag drink responsibly, which
Speaker 1: wasn't used in any of the ads. I suppose, moving
Speaker 1: forward into more normality, it will be really interesting to
Speaker 1: see how the alcohol companies again pivot and with more
Speaker 1: of a budget now for influencers, how that's going to
Speaker 1: move on and look like in the future.
Speaker 2: Actually, so sunny.
Speaker 1: Let's move on to the pit and peak of the
Speaker 1: social media week, and the peak for me had to
Speaker 1: be when Kim Kardashian shared a worksheet her son Saint
Speaker 1: had made for her for Mother's Day.
Speaker 2: Did you guys see this yes, it was bloody hilarious.
Speaker 1: So in the sheet, he had to fill out some
Speaker 1: questions about his mum and included her age, which he
Speaker 1: put as eleven years old. It also said what she
Speaker 1: likes to do, the best thing, She cooks her favorite food.
Speaker 1: It was quite interesting that he noted she likes to
Speaker 1: leave me alone.
Speaker 2: Now, I'm not quite sure if that was insinuating that
Speaker 2: he's always with his nanny.
Speaker 1: Well, I've read a couple of articles about mum shaming
Speaker 1: during the coronavirus pandemic, and Kim Kardashian has been one
Speaker 1: who has being shamed a lot. I mean, she got
Speaker 1: in trouble because she asked her audience what are some
Speaker 1: fun activities that we can do with kids during this time?
Speaker 1: And people thought, oh, because you're a mum, you should
Speaker 1: be able to come up in your own activity. So
Speaker 1: I think she has been unfairly criticized during this time. Well,
Speaker 1: one other thing, I mean, I'm not trying to shame her,
Speaker 1: but it was funny he put, as you can see,
Speaker 1: my mum is special because and he wrote, she snuggles
Speaker 1: me and she buys things for me. Now, I found
Speaker 1: that quite hilarious considering her wealth and the amount that
Speaker 1: they I'm assuming they would be spoiled. I thinks that
Speaker 1: being said, I think it's all in fun. I mean,
Speaker 1: she probably wouldn't have shared it if he was being genuine.
Speaker 1: Do you think the teachers sit there and the kids
Speaker 1: are like, oh, shah, right this and they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: go on, well, moving on to the pit of the week.
Speaker 1: And I am getting so frustrated because I am literally
Speaker 1: seeing the I Am Beautiful filter everywhere and it's really
Speaker 1: annoying me. So for those who aren't familiar with the filter,
Speaker 1: it is one way you kind of end up looking
Speaker 1: like an alien, so your nose is really thinned out,
Speaker 1: then you've got really big lips, and I think it
Speaker 1: also enlarges your eyes. Now, bet Judd has been guilty
Speaker 1: of using this filter quite a lot, and I usually
Speaker 1: watch her stories and I'm kind of thinking why she
Speaker 1: looks so different, and then there's that light bulb moment
Speaker 1: where I'm like, oh, she's using that filter. The thing
Speaker 1: that sounds a bit contradictory is calling it I AM
Speaker 1: Beautiful footer, because to me, that sounds like a caption
Speaker 1: about embracing your own natural beauty, not putting on a
Speaker 1: filter to make your nose look incredibly thin and your
Speaker 1: lips look big.
Speaker 2: I just feel like.
Speaker 1: It's weird for influencers to do it because we obviously
Speaker 1: know what they look like, and then it's just normalizing
Speaker 1: them looking a certain way, so then that they then
Speaker 1: begin face tuning their photos so they look like the
Speaker 1: filter they're using on their story. I think Instagram is
Speaker 1: going to run into a lot of trouble with these
Speaker 1: new filters because, as you say, there needs to be
Speaker 1: some regulations because it's promoting plastic surgery for children, because
Speaker 1: they're getting a look at what they could look like
Speaker 1: with these enhanced features, and it's not giving them any
Speaker 1: realistic impression of what other women look like in real life.
Speaker 1: Was really contradictory, because I feel like the Instagram stories
Speaker 1: were brought in to provide a more authentic look into
Speaker 1: people's lives, and since the introduction of the filters, it's
Speaker 1: now beginning to have that esthetic across to the Instagram
Speaker 1: story that we kind of rebelled against on the feed.
Speaker 1: Mad Mardeling, Bad.
Speaker 2: Mardeling.
Speaker 1: Now let's get into the reality wrap and after eighteen
Speaker 1: years and forty seasons, the American Bachelor finally has a
Speaker 1: black leading man. Now, Kay, can you tell us about
Speaker 1: Matt James. So, mattters a twenty eight year old real
Speaker 1: estate broker, and the most interesting thing about his selection
Speaker 1: is the fact that he hasn't actually yet appeared on
Speaker 1: The Bachelorette. So he was actually friends of a contestant
Speaker 1: from Hannah B's season, so people have seen him when
Speaker 1: she went on the hometown visit because he was a
Speaker 1: friend of one of the contestants. And he actually was
Speaker 1: picked to appear in Claire Crawley's season of The Bachelorette,
Speaker 1: which is yet to be filmed because it's been pushed
Speaker 1: back because of the pandemic. So he was announced in
Speaker 1: her cast, but suddenly he's now been taken off her
Speaker 1: cast and is the Bachelor. And this is all because
Speaker 1: of the Bachelor Diversity campaign that was launched a couple
Speaker 1: of days ago, and in a couple of days it
Speaker 1: received over ninety thousand signatures. Wow, that's incredible. I mean,
Speaker 1: it is amazing that we are going to have our
Speaker 1: first black bachelor in America. But the thing that is
Speaker 1: troubling is it does seem like a knee jerk reaction
Speaker 1: and kind of almost not very genuine by the Bachelor team. Well,
Speaker 1: the interesting thing is the diversity campaign has actually called
Speaker 1: for thirteen steps for the ABC and Warner Brothers who
Speaker 1: produced The American Bachelor, to combat racism. So the first
Speaker 1: step was to actually cast at their first black Bachelor.
Speaker 1: On your view of it being a knee jerk reaction,
Speaker 1: that's actually what Rachel lindsay, who was the first black
Speaker 1: female bachelort, That's exactly what she said.
Speaker 2: She congratulated Matt.
Speaker 1: She said, I'm happy to see that a black man
Speaker 1: was cast after eighteen years and fourteen seasons. I believe
Speaker 1: it is a step in the right direction. I would
Speaker 1: be remiss to not point out that, based on the
Speaker 1: current climate, it feels like a knee jerk reaction and
Speaker 1: a result of societal pressure. This announcement, without any further
Speaker 1: commitments regarding diversity, sweepingly brushes deeper issues under the rug
Speaker 1: until we see action to address the systematic racism within
Speaker 1: the franchise. The casting use today is equivalent to the
Speaker 1: trend of posting a black box on your social media
Speaker 1: account without other steps taken to dismantle the systems if injustice.
Speaker 1: What do you guys think of her comments. Well, it's
Speaker 1: actually not the first time she's condemned the Bachelor series.
Speaker 1: So she's got her own podcast talking about The Bachelor,
Speaker 1: and she has come out and said it's embarrassing that
Speaker 1: they haven't had a black Bachelor, and two years ago
Speaker 1: she actually said that that the Bachelor production team didn't
Speaker 1: look after her and one of the after the Rose
Speaker 1: ceremonies and that she was getting baited and harassed on air.
Speaker 1: She's also been critical of the casting of The Bachelor before,
Speaker 1: so she was saying that social media influencers are ruining
Speaker 1: the Bachelor because they're just picking them as contestants and
Speaker 1: they're not actually there to find love. So it's quite
Speaker 1: interesting that she has made so many comments about the
Speaker 1: Bachelor and Bachelorette which are true. I think it's great
Speaker 1: because I don't think we would have seen a black
Speaker 1: Bachelor in the twenty fifth season of The Bachelor if
Speaker 1: it hadn't been for Rachel pushing it. Well, it's interesting
Speaker 1: to look a bit closer to home. And of course
Speaker 1: in Australia, Blake Garvey was our second Bachelor and he
Speaker 1: is of course a black man. But what is troubling
Speaker 1: is despite the fact that he was our second Bachelor.
Speaker 1: Black people have not been well represented as contestants in
Speaker 1: the Australian franchise and that's something they too have been
Speaker 1: heavily criticized for well, and that's exactly what this diversity
Speaker 1: campaign petitioner is calling for. So not only did they
Speaker 1: want a black man cast as the lead, but they
Speaker 1: also said that black and indigenous people of color should
Speaker 1: make up thirty five percent of the cast. Now. Bachelor
Speaker 1: creator Mike Fleece has actually previously blamed the show's lack
Speaker 1: of diversity on the claim that, for whatever reason, people
Speaker 1: of color don't come forward to actually be on the show.
Speaker 1: And I feel like you can't say that, Like it's.
Speaker 2: A bit of a how do you prove that? I'm sorry?
Speaker 1: When you look at shows like The Bachelor or any
Speaker 1: other reality show, they do have casting call and people
Speaker 1: do apply, but most of the time they ignore those
Speaker 1: calls and they find them.
Speaker 2: They find them on Instagram.
Speaker 1: So that's ridiculous, exactly right, So why are we not
Speaker 1: looking at Instagram of people of color and inviting them
Speaker 1: to be on the show.
Speaker 2: It's a bit of a cop out.
Speaker 1: Well, despite it being a knee jerk reaction, it is
Speaker 1: a good reaction and it is a positive step forward.
Speaker 1: And this guy, he looks incredible. I'm really looking forward
Speaker 1: to seeing how this all plays out. Yeah. Well, Matt
Speaker 1: himself has actually been asked about what he thinks of
Speaker 1: the decision, and he said he thinks it's a step
Speaker 1: in the right direction. And he was actually asked about
Speaker 1: what type of woman he's looking for, and he said,
Speaker 1: it's not a black and white thing. So I'm hoping
Speaker 1: that when the limo pulls up, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: diversity and I see every type of woman coming out
Speaker 1: of that limo. So we'll be interesting to see how
Speaker 1: The Bachelor follows through with that casting process. Well, it's
Speaker 1: kind of ironic because I watched the show Unreal, which
Speaker 1: is sort of a fictitious take on The Bachelor. Well,
Speaker 1: it's actually been produced by a former Bachelor producer, so
Speaker 1: a lot of people think it's kind of behind the
Speaker 1: scenes of what really happens on the show. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: even in a few of the episodes, they've brought up
Speaker 1: the issue that there aren't a lot of people of
Speaker 1: color on those shows, and there was a reoccurring sort
Speaker 1: of storyline that they needed to have this particular man
Speaker 1: who was a person of color make a certain week
Speaker 1: like apparently a person of color had never made it
Speaker 1: past week three or something crazy like that. Was not
Speaker 1: surprising because you do see that they have a couple
Speaker 1: of black guys on there, but they never seem to actually,
Speaker 1: as you say, make it through a certain level, and
Speaker 1: they're never very big.
Speaker 2: Parts of the show.
Speaker 1: Well, Lindsey, I think she was probably only one woman
Speaker 1: of color that actually made it to the top four.
Speaker 1: And I think it has a lot more to do
Speaker 1: with the percentage of people of color put in as contestants.
Speaker 1: If they suddenly put in thirty five percent contestants who
Speaker 1: are of color, we will see a lot more people
Speaker 1: of make it further into the show. Yeah. Well, The
Speaker 1: Bachelor did release a statement on the issue, and they said,
Speaker 1: we know we have a responsibility to make sure the
Speaker 1: love stories we're seeing on screen are representative of the
Speaker 1: world we live in, and we are proudly in service
Speaker 1: to our audience. This is just the beginning, and we
Speaker 1: will continue to take action with regard to diversity issues
Speaker 1: on this franchise. So fingers crossed that this is the
Speaker 1: start of a really big change and we will see
Speaker 1: the Bachelor, ticking off those thirteen points that the Bachelor
Speaker 1: Diversity campaign has asked for.
Speaker 3: If you said to me, Sky, what's two times? What's
Speaker 3: eight times? Twoe like, I would not even know. I
Speaker 3: cannot tell you.
Speaker 1: Now let's get into our favorite topic of the week,
Speaker 1: and it is, of course awkward turtle. Now, we thought
Speaker 1: we'd kick off this discussion by talking about the awkward
Speaker 1: and kind of eye rolling things that your partner does.
Speaker 1: That then you're somewhat implicated in Now, Kate, you have
Speaker 1: a story to share about your ex. Yeah, so my
Speaker 1: ex boyfriend used to ask me to take photos of
Speaker 1: him just shirtless to see if he was progressing at
Speaker 1: the gym or if he looked quote fat. Now, I
Speaker 1: think it was more awkward for me because I used
Speaker 1: to walk in on these little photo shoots. They'd happened
Speaker 1: downstairs and I just walk into a shirtless They weren't
Speaker 1: really photo shoots. He literally just stood there and I
Speaker 1: snapped the photo on his phone. I didn't have any
Speaker 1: of these photos. And another awkward thing was he was
Speaker 1: fanatical about practicing his golf swing, which was so annoying.
Speaker 1: You'd be at the shops and he'd be practicing that
Speaker 1: stupid like squat pose and the swing back, and sometimes
Speaker 1: I'd have to film that and it was just so awkward.
Speaker 1: It just I didn't want to be involved. It made
Speaker 1: me feel uncomfortable. This has actually made me think of
Speaker 1: another awkward thing that my ex used to do. But
Speaker 1: I wasn't actually implicated in it, but I would be
Speaker 1: embarrassed because after every meal he would get his napkin and.
Speaker 2: Blow his nose. And this would happen obviously at.
Speaker 1: Family dinner and one time he blew his nose into
Speaker 1: a material napkin as well.
Speaker 2: That is so disgusting.
Speaker 1: It's not a bloody hanky actually, but you kind of
Speaker 1: are implicated because you're with him, do you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? It comes across badly on you. What about
Speaker 1: when my ex boyfriend, I think it was when we
Speaker 1: used to go to Cottonon to buy stuff and what do.
Speaker 2: You mean used to Cottonon's great?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know it's great, but I had somehow got
Speaker 1: him into cotton and he used to buy like expensive
Speaker 1: stuff and then he really loved cotton On. And I
Speaker 1: remember being in the Chaine rooms because they were muni
Speaker 1: sex and he would like parade out of them, and
Speaker 1: I'd be in there just like you know, I hate
Speaker 1: those people that parade around in their outfits in front
Speaker 1: of the mirror.
Speaker 2: It would just be so awkward.
Speaker 1: That's very unusual for a boy though, because usually they
Speaker 1: don't like to try anything, or they'd just be like, yep, that's.
Speaker 2: Large as mine. That kind of reminds me.
Speaker 1: Do you remember when you were younger and used to
Speaker 1: go shopping with your mum and then Mum would always
Speaker 1: make you try on the clothes and like do a
Speaker 1: little fashion parade for dad. And when you're at home, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Dad wouldn't give a shit what was going on now,
Speaker 1: But Dad now does that. So Dad's really got into
Speaker 1: online shopping, so at family dinner he'll come down and
Speaker 1: show his purchases.
Speaker 2: It's so cute.
Speaker 4: Well, if your partner does anything awkward and you're somewhat involved, implicating,
Speaker 4: implicated in that awkwardness, we'd love it if you could
Speaker 4: share it in our podcast community, so you can find
Speaker 4: us that outspoken podcast community on Facebook.
Speaker 1: Yes, it would be really nice to hear that other
Speaker 1: poor people have been implicated in these embarrassing tasks. And
Speaker 1: that's not just me now, I think that's all we
Speaker 1: have time for. Thank you so much for joining us
Speaker 1: for today's episode. If you have enjoyed, it would be
Speaker 1: great if you could share a screenshot of where you're
Speaker 1: listening from on your Instagram story and tag us out Outspoken, Underscore,
Speaker 1: the Underscore Podcast. It would also be great if you
Speaker 1: could leave us a review. It really helps us get
Speaker 1: into the charts and more people listening. And make sure
Speaker 1: that you are subscribed because that way you know when
Speaker 1: our latest episodes will drop.