1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 2 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:08,879 Speaker 1: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: their day. 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 2: I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imber. I'm an organizational. 5 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: Psychologist, the founder of innovation consultancy Inventium, and I'm obsessed 6 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: with finding ways. 7 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 2: To optimize my work day. 8 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: Now, before I get into today's mini episode, I wanted 9 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: to share something fun that I'm going to be doing 10 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: on September nineteen, twelve noon that you might want to 11 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: get involved in. So I get a lot of emails 12 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: from people every week asking me all sorts of questions 13 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: ranging from topics I want me to cover on the podcast, 14 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: how Inventium's unlimited leave policies, going general career advice, how 15 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: to gain momentum for an idea, and so on. So 16 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: for the first time ever, I'm going to be running 17 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 1: Alive Ask Me Anything webinar event. So I'm going to 18 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: be setting aside forty five minutes at twelve noon on 19 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: September nineteen, and I'm going to be going through as 20 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: many answers as I can to questions from you that 21 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: I can fit within that time. So literally no topics 22 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: are off limits, so you know, I might cover things 23 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: about creating an innovation culture, trying to create the world's 24 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: best workplace unlimitedly, even how to do it well, my 25 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 1: daily habits and rituals to improve performance, my favorite apps 26 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: and gadgets, how to start a podcast, going from being 27 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:21,639 Speaker 1: a manager to a maker. 28 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 2: Whatever you like. 29 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: Really, so I would love to have you join us. 30 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: I think if you like the podcast, you'll really enjoy 31 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: this ask Me Anything event. 32 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 2: And what's great. 33 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: Is once you register, you can then send me as 34 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: many questions as you'd like me to answer, and I'm 35 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: going to be trying to get through as many as possible. 36 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: So to book yourself a place, and it's totally free 37 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: to book in, and I'll link to this in the 38 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: show notes as well. 39 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 2: Go to bitley so. 40 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: Bit dot, l y forward slash a month AMA. So 41 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: that's a month of AMA one word, so I link 42 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: to that in the show notes. 43 00:01:58,080 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 2: I would love to. 44 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: Have you join in and ask a question and hopefully 45 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: I can help with the answer. 46 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 2: Today's mini episode is about meetings. 47 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: So I think in the history of corporate life, no 48 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: one has ever said I wish I had more meetings. 49 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: The average executive spends twenty three hours per week in meetings, 50 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: yet few obsess over how to reduce this time and 51 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: ensure that it's time well spent, but with a bit 52 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 1: of planning, some creativity and quirkiness. Some of the world's 53 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 1: most successful leaders, certainly the ones that I've interviewed on 54 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: this podcast, have reduced time spent in meetings by over 55 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: fifty percent and infinitely improved the time that they do 56 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: still spend in meetings. 57 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:43,839 Speaker 2: So this is how they have done that. 58 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: First up, they don't accept meetings without a clear agenda. 59 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 2: So at one eight hundred got Chunk. 60 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: CEO Brian Scrutemore, who I had on the podcast when 61 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: I was doing my TED twenty nineteen series of interviews, 62 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: told me about a strict rule that has for any 63 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: meeting that goes in his diary called POA. So POA 64 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: stands for purpose, outcome and agenda. So Brian told me 65 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 1: that for every meeting he has, the person calling the 66 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: meeting has to communicate the purpose, the outcome, and a 67 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: brief agenda. 68 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: So basically doesn't matter if it's. 69 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: Ten minute meeting or a one hour meeting. As Brian says, 70 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: if there's no poeer, it's no goer. And Brian's assistant 71 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 1: ensures that this rule gets adhered to. So Brian's assistant 72 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,519 Speaker 1: asks anyone that wants to meet with Brian what their 73 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: POA is, and if they can't answer the question, the 74 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: meeting won't go in the diary. The next thing that 75 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: they do is they never default to sixty minute meetings, 76 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: and I think what happens is that the average person's 77 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: diary is actually filled with blocks of thirty and sixty 78 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: minute meetings, which really makes the average diary look like 79 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: a big. 80 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 2: Game of tetris, I think. 81 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: But for Brian, in addition to the POA rule, being 82 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: deliberate about how much time he gives any meeting is 83 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: something that he absolutely does all the time. So something 84 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: you told me on the show, as he said he'd 85 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: rather have a twenty two minute meeting than a forty 86 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: five minute meeting, even though twenty two is an odd number, 87 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: why waste the extra time? So what happens is Brian 88 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,239 Speaker 1: and his assistant never default to thirty or sixty minute meetings, 89 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: and instead most of his meetings are actually for an 90 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: odd number of minutes, and certainly where a POA can 91 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: be resolved quickly, Brian is actually quite well known for 92 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:28,799 Speaker 1: setting meetings that will last for less. 93 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 2: Than ten minutes. 94 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: All right, the next thing that these folk do is 95 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: that they do meetings back to back to avoid the 96 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: dead time in between. So what generally happens in the 97 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: average person stary is that meetings just litter calendars in 98 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 1: a kind of scattergun pattern. But what impact does this 99 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: have on productivity? So what we know from research from 100 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 1: Ohio State University is that when people have a meeting 101 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 1: coming up in an hour or two, the time in 102 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 1: between is used much less productively. When people have a 103 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: meeting coming up, what they found in this research is 104 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: that they got twenty two percent less work done in 105 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: the time before the meeting started compared to if they 106 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: didn't have a meeting approaching. So, for Wharton professor and 107 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,919 Speaker 1: best selling author Adam Grant, who is my very first 108 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: interview on this podcast, this research for him and reinforced 109 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: how he approached his own meeting schedule. So what Adam 110 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 1: does is on teaching days, he holds his office hours 111 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: meetings with students back to back, and he learned that 112 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: he needs to give himself a five minute buffer or 113 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: so between each meetings just to maybe catch up on 114 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: an email or in case the meeting runs long. But 115 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 1: then what he does on other days is he has 116 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 1: no meetings at all where he can focus and be 117 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: really productive. The next thing that they do is these 118 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: leaders create simple structures for success. So Ella Baschet CEO 119 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: Pippa Hallis, who was on the show a few months ago, 120 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: says that having a structure for meetings is the key 121 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: to getting the most out of them. So whenever someone 122 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: is presenting in a meeting or a problem is being 123 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: just Pipper uses a framework that she calls one three 124 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: to one. 125 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 2: So she explained to me. 126 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: That they ask for one problem, three options or ideas, 127 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: and one recommendation and that way, as Pipper describes, they're 128 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: forcing themselves through a framework to have solution based conversations 129 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: and taking a step further, what Pipper does is she 130 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: actually writes one three to one onto a whiteboard for 131 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: all her meetings to remind people how to frame things, 132 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: and this is essentially how she sets out the meeting agenda. 133 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: So it's great because it forces preparation and thinking time 134 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: before the meeting starts. Now, the final thing that these 135 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 1: people do is that they actually just try to avoid 136 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 1: meetings wherever possible. So I had this great chat on 137 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: the podcast with Alassin's head of R and D Dom Price, 138 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,919 Speaker 1: who loathes meetings, and a year ago he realized he 139 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 1: was drowning in them, so he took action. What he 140 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: did is he deleted every single meeting out of his calendar, 141 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: and it went with a note that gave people one 142 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: of three options. Option one was to reinvite Dom, but 143 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: explain and very clearly what his role and responsibilities were 144 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: for the meeting. Option two was to still hold the meeting, 145 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: but invite someone else from Dom's team to do it. 146 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 2: And option three was. 147 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: At the meeting probably shouldn't exist and should never go 148 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: back in the diary. And as a result of deleting 149 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: all these meetings, many of them never returned. And Dom 150 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: said to me that he now has less meetings than 151 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: he ever had before, and the ones that he does 152 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: have are really focused on something specific, and he believes 153 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: that his contribution in those meetings has now increased. So, 154 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: rather than get frustrated over the flood of meetings in 155 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: your calendar, take action to win back time and your diary, 156 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: or to actually ensure that your meeting's are time well spent. 157 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: So that is it for today's show. Thank you so 158 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: much for listening. If you don't already subscribe to How 159 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: I Work in Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to this, 160 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: hit the subscribe button and you will be alerted as 161 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: to whenever a new episode arrives. 162 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 2: Have a great day and see you next time.