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Speaker 1: As I mentioned, the Northern Territory government recently passed amendments

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Speaker 1: to the Medicines, Poisons and Therapeutic Goods legislation. It does

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Speaker 1: allow pharmacists from what we can gather, to supply life

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Speaker 1: saving medications to prevent over doses. But joining me on

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Speaker 1: the line to tell us a little bit more is

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Speaker 1: the Pharmacy Guild of Australia's Northern Territory branch President Peter Hatswell.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Peter.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Great to have you on the show. Peter, I've got

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Speaker 1: to say we've all been a little bit confused about

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Speaker 1: what exactly this legislation means. Can you give us a

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Speaker 1: bit further detail about what this change does mean and

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Speaker 1: maybe even an example of how it would work.

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Speaker 2: Well. The legislation basically opens the door to allow appropriately

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Speaker 2: trained pharmacists and another qualified health professionals to diagnose and

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Speaker 2: treat every day acute and chronic conditions so they can

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Speaker 2: there is a great need in the community for other

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Speaker 2: health professionals besides GPS to be able to deal with

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Speaker 2: those common conditions, and so it's a really good thing

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Speaker 2: for the community.

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Speaker 1: And so what kind of conditions would it include, I mean,

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Speaker 1: is it only medications to prevent overdoses or does this

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Speaker 1: go much broader?

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Speaker 2: Well, the overdose part that's with the LOCKSIGN. That's a

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Speaker 2: very important life saving change and that's kind of directly

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Speaker 2: in legislation. So pharmacists and other like professionals can give

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Speaker 2: out the LOCKSIGN injection, which which would save someone's life

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Speaker 2: if they were in an overdose situation, whether it's illegally

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Speaker 2: obtained or legally, so it can happen. And there are

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Speaker 2: people dying pretty much every day Australia wide from overdoses

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Speaker 2: and so this is really important. But the other thing

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Speaker 2: that this legislation does not directly, it basically opens the

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Speaker 2: doors that pharmacists and the health professionals can treat, diagnose

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Speaker 2: and treat a range of things. Well, in particular, there's

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Speaker 2: about twenty three that have been named by the Queensland

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Speaker 2: Pilot and New South Wales tile like asthma, gastro and

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Speaker 2: nausea and vomiting, urine attract infections, ear infections, skin infections,

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Speaker 2: the oral contraceptive pill pill, a number of other things.

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Speaker 2: That's just a short list, but there's quite a few.

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Speaker 2: The legislation yourself doesn't actually restrict it. That's really now

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Speaker 2: in the hands of the Pharmacy Guild to come up

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Speaker 2: with those those everyday conditions that we're going to we're

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Speaker 2: going to train pharmacists to treat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, because this is something that you and I

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Speaker 1: have spoken about before previously and whether it was something

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Speaker 1: that should actually you know, be able to happen, and

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Speaker 1: whether territories should be able to come in and see

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Speaker 1: a pharmacist rather than in some cases you know, having

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Speaker 1: to go and get an appointment with the GP.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, it has come through. There's obviously it's just

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Speaker 2: just the first step to create the legal kind of opening.

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Speaker 2: But now you know, with the educational program, so pharmacists

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Speaker 2: will need to go through quite an expensive training program

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Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty hours supervised as well, and to

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Speaker 2: become appropriately trained to be able to deal with these conditions.

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Speaker 2: And of course we need that sort of the guidelines,

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Speaker 2: the clinical guidelines that the pharmacists will follow in order

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Speaker 2: to treat these conditions and needs are the Spain guidelines

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Speaker 2: that that doctors already use for treating the same conditions.

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Speaker 1: And so what we're called the Pharmacy Guild sort of

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Speaker 1: have to conduct now in order to get that happening.

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Speaker 2: All the times of Guild is in the process now

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Speaker 2: of creating those training modules that the pharmacists can can

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Speaker 2: use to become appropriately qualified, and they are also working

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Speaker 2: on the standard treatment guidelines, which, like I said, they're

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Speaker 2: based on the exact same guidelines that gps currently use

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Speaker 2: or treating those conditions. So that all that framework and

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Speaker 2: the whole controlling making sure that nobody goes out there

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Speaker 2: and tries to treat something that they don't know exactly

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Speaker 2: what they're doing. That's all going to be part of

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Speaker 2: the process, and in the end we're going to have

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Speaker 2: the option for the community people to go to their

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Speaker 2: pharmacy and get treated to those conditions rather than waiting

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Speaker 2: you know, potentially weeks to see a GP or you know,

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Speaker 2: we're still end up in a hospital with some very

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Speaker 2: serious consequence of not getting treatment.

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Speaker 1: So, Peter, how soon do you reckon we are going

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Speaker 1: to see you know, territorians being able to go to

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Speaker 1: the pharmacy and do that.

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Speaker 2: Well, the treatment protocols are being sort of drafted. They

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Speaker 2: should be ready early next year, as well as the

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Speaker 2: training modules that will be available. But then it's really

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Speaker 2: a matter of everybody. The pharmacists who want to partake

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Speaker 2: and be able to diagnose and treat these things have

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Speaker 2: to then go through the educational process. It could be

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Speaker 2: it's just the early days, so I say it would

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Speaker 2: be either late or sort of mid to late next year,

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Speaker 2: or possibly even twenty twenty four. So you know, everyone

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Speaker 2: needs to know, you know, to go through that process

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Speaker 2: and be all ready to go, and our thinking it

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Speaker 2: is going to take a little while, so not just yet.

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Speaker 1: Do you reckon there'll be a big take up from pharmacists.

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Speaker 1: Do you reckon that there'll be quite a few pharmacists

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Speaker 1: that do want to go down that path.

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Speaker 2: Well, who knows. I really hope, So I do believe

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Speaker 2: there are some areas that it really particularly suits. There

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Speaker 2: are places in Australia and in the NT where there's

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Speaker 2: a population based but no GP actually available. Tenant Creek

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Speaker 2: is one of them, and at certain times areas like

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Speaker 2: Catherine do end up going without a GP, and those places,

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Speaker 2: you know, this is a particularly a valuable resource for them.

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Speaker 2: So I really hope they do take it up. And

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Speaker 2: the Guild is certainly going to be working with all

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Speaker 2: those community pharmacies and encourage them to do so and

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Speaker 2: provide them whatever support they need to make it happen.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, in Darwin and our springs, absolutely, I know

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Speaker 2: there will be people that take it up. I just

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Speaker 2: don't know who at this stage that's up to. That's

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Speaker 2: a decision.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So Peter, you do reckon that this is going

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Speaker 1: to have quite a good benefit in some of our

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Speaker 1: more regional and remote locations.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, this is where I think the great value is.

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Speaker 2: But there's nowhere in Australia that isn't suffering, and the

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Speaker 2: GPS Australia wide are suffering from huge over over work

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Speaker 2: situation where they're having to you know, there are many

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Speaker 2: doctors saying that they're working for weeks on end without

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Speaker 2: a single day off and that's that's that's bad. It's

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Speaker 2: of no fault of their own. They're doing the best

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Speaker 2: they can, but working weeks and weeks and long hours

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Speaker 2: is a dangerous situation and no one should be put

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Speaker 2: in that situation, not the doctors, not the patients for

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Speaker 2: you know, who are going to see someone who could

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Speaker 2: potentially be exhausted, and you know, we need to help.

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Speaker 2: We need to help where we can.

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Speaker 1: Someone has just messaged through and ask if someone's overdosing,

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Speaker 1: how can they walk into a pharmacy and get excuse

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Speaker 1: my pronunciation, now lock sign. What what a CROC says

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Speaker 1: that person? I mean, what would you say to them?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's about anticipation. I think they're absolutely right they're overdosing.

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Speaker 2: They're not. But if they can, if they are in

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Speaker 2: a potentially dangerous situation where they could be taking there,

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Speaker 2: however they get them. Yeah, they can now get them

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Speaker 2: to have on hand, and they can have them in

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Speaker 2: their medicine cabinet. And the people who are living with

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Speaker 2: people who are you know, could potentially overdose, well, clearly

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Speaker 2: they then if they have them in their possession. If

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Speaker 2: you have a loved one that as much as you

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Speaker 2: try that they do, they do take opioids, either legally

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Speaker 2: or legally, then they should have one of these things

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Speaker 2: available for them and that yes, they could save lives.

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Speaker 2: But so it's you know, obviously we can't magically make

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Speaker 2: this happen, but people do end up taking their loved

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Speaker 2: ones to a pharmacy in an overdose situation, or at

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Speaker 2: least run to the pharmacy when they know someone is

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Speaker 2: in trouble and get what they need. I mean that

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Speaker 2: people who have overdose are clearly not responsive and there

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Speaker 2: is a small window they'll be it small. It needs

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Speaker 2: to happen, and it happened as soon as possible, and

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Speaker 2: it can still save them life if they can get

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Speaker 2: the thing quick enough.

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Speaker 1: A bit more broadly, with the changes to this legislation

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Speaker 1: and with the fact that it does really open the

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Speaker 1: door then to pharmacists being able to diagnose, you know,

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Speaker 1: certain certain certain types of ailments. Do you reckon? There's

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Speaker 1: going to be much pushback from the GPS.

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Speaker 2: Look, I hope not. I believe that they've already spoken

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Speaker 2: out and they're worried that there's going to be a

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Speaker 2: dangerous situation and someone say, for instance, could be taking

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Speaker 2: coming in for a unity fact infection five six times

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Speaker 2: and then of course the whole point is that if

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Speaker 2: it's going on that often, then there might be something

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Speaker 2: else going wrong. Well, farmacists are the medication experts. They

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Speaker 2: know the actions of the medications, they know the side effects,

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Speaker 2: the interactions of those medications with drugs and foods. They

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Speaker 2: also know when someone shouldn't take medical the medicine. So

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Speaker 2: there's a conty indication of some thought. They also and

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Speaker 2: this is a vital point. They know the trigger points

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Speaker 2: when a GP is the next appropriate step, and that's

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Speaker 2: the safeguard, you know, And you can't predict all the

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Speaker 2: possible things that could be wrong. And gps treat people

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Speaker 2: in the same way. They start off with the simple solution.

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Speaker 2: But if there's a red flag something's going wrong, the

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Speaker 2: person's come up too often or too quickly, or it's

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Speaker 2: not resolving, then it's time to start investigating for other

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Speaker 2: possible situations where where there's like a potentially it's other

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Speaker 2: sexually transmitted disease or it could be cancer situation. Well,

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Speaker 2: that's the same process. The pharmacist will refer you said,

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Speaker 2: there's obviously a need to look into this deeper, and

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Speaker 2: your GP is the next person you should see. And

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Speaker 2: that's what we're doing. All the records, every time someone

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Speaker 2: would go and get treated by a pharmacists, those records

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Speaker 2: are uploaded online and that information is available for any

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Speaker 2: other pharmacist to access with the patient's permission to say

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Speaker 2: okay if they and if the patient goes to three

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Speaker 2: different pharmacies and gets the same thing, well each subsequent

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Speaker 2: pharmacist would be able to see that and realize there's

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Speaker 2: a red flag and of course the patient's GP will

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Speaker 2: also be able to access the same information with the

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Speaker 2: patient's permission. And see, okay, I can see what's been happening.

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Speaker 2: It's time to look it's to look more deeper.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, well there you go. Pharmacy Guild of Australia's

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory branch President Peter Hatswell, I always appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having a chat to us about

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Speaker 1: this change.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on Katie.

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Speaker 1: Thank you