1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,000
Speaker 1: Joining me in the studio this morning for the week

2
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,520
Speaker 1: that was. I'm very pleased to say that Robin Lamley,

3
00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:07,880
Speaker 1: the Independent Member for Arra lun is here with us.

4
00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,119
Speaker 2: Good morning Robin, Good morning Katie. Great to be back

5
00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:11,760
Speaker 2: in the studio a while.

6
00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:13,600
Speaker 1: It has And we've got Bill Yan, of course, the

7
00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,880
Speaker 1: member for Namajira for the COLP. Good morning to you.

8
00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:17,920
Speaker 3: Morning Katy, Morning everybody.

9
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,640
Speaker 1: And we've got Chancey Paig who is indeed the Attorney

10
00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:22,960
Speaker 1: General and representing the Labor Party.

11
00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,160
Speaker 4: Good morning, Chancey, Good morning Katie.

12
00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,640
Speaker 5: And it's great to be joined with all of our

13
00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,160
Speaker 5: people on panel from the southern region of the LA.

14
00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:35,239
Speaker 1: Going to say Australia represents this morning. Feeling a bit

15
00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,879
Speaker 1: out of place in the studio now. It's been a

16
00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,440
Speaker 1: massive week and of course the news that has dominated

17
00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,559
Speaker 1: headlines has been that our back wrangler Matt Wright, presented

18
00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,199
Speaker 1: to the Darwin Police station earlier in the week and

19
00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,040
Speaker 1: was charged with a number of offenses. He is going

20
00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,280
Speaker 1: to appear in court again in January. But look, there's

21
00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,120
Speaker 1: not a lot that we can sort of say about

22
00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,280
Speaker 1: this situation on the show. That's now going to be

23
00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:03,240
Speaker 1: in court once again in January. And while it's dominated

24
00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,880
Speaker 1: the news headlines, it hasn't it hasn't really given us

25
00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:08,679
Speaker 1: much of an opportunity to talk about that in the

26
00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:10,959
Speaker 1: political realm. So we will talk about what's gone on

27
00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,960
Speaker 1: politically throughout this week, and we know that overnight, in

28
00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,600
Speaker 1: what has been a pretty historic move, you'd have to say,

29
00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,640
Speaker 1: laws restricting the Act and the Northern Territory from legislating

30
00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,360
Speaker 1: on voluntary euthanasia have been repealed after more than two

31
00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,440
Speaker 1: decades of being in place. The Restoring Territory Rights Bill

32
00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:35,119
Speaker 1: pass Parliament last night, overturning legislation put forward by Liberal

33
00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,679
Speaker 1: MP Kevin Andrews back in nineteen ninety seven that precluded

34
00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,200
Speaker 1: the territories from being able to debate and pass voluntary

35
00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:47,280
Speaker 1: assisted dying laws. An historic day, there is no doubt

36
00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:47,720
Speaker 1: about that.

37
00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:54,160
Speaker 2: It's a profound occasion, Katie. I mean a lot of

38
00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,320
Speaker 2: people who listen to your program would have been very

39
00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,400
Speaker 2: small children, if not even born. It's been a long

40
00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,040
Speaker 2: time coming, and it's a good move.

41
00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:05,440
Speaker 3: Twenty five years.

42
00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:08,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, if the fact that has taken this long, and

43
00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,560
Speaker 6: it's been tried a few times, but the fact that

44
00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,960
Speaker 6: it's following got up and now that the territory can

45
00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,040
Speaker 6: actually legislate for itself without that interference from Canberra.

46
00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,560
Speaker 3: Is it's a land of market decision? Really special, great

47
00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:20,840
Speaker 3: day for us here in the territory.

48
00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:25,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, certainly, I think I echo the position of Robin

49
00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,360
Speaker 5: and Bill. It's a great position to wake up to

50
00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:31,359
Speaker 5: this morning and certainly acknowledging the work that has been

51
00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,359
Speaker 5: undertaking to get us to this point. And certainly I

52
00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,959
Speaker 5: think it's important to look at the pathway forward from

53
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,160
Speaker 5: here on now and that's going to be a long

54
00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,519
Speaker 5: journey and it needs to be a really thought out process.

55
00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,160
Speaker 2: And that's your statehood maybe. Yeah, I mean it just

56
00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,680
Speaker 2: brings back that whole debate again. I think about statehood,

57
00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,520
Speaker 2: which takes a lot of effort, to a lot of money,

58
00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,600
Speaker 2: a lot of commitment from the Northern Territory government. But

59
00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:58,600
Speaker 2: that's the next thing on the list. Really, I mean,

60
00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:00,720
Speaker 2: how long have we been talking about statehood?

61
00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:02,200
Speaker 7: For an awfully long time?

62
00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,320
Speaker 1: And then Redum back in what year was that referendum

63
00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,440
Speaker 1: on statehood. It's spent a long time and it was

64
00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,800
Speaker 1: pretty narrow the vote, wasn't it It was?

65
00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:12,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it was pretty narrow.

66
00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:17,080
Speaker 5: We'd had a draft constitution drafted by Antomy, who is

67
00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,960
Speaker 5: the leading constitutional expert in the country. So we had

68
00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,360
Speaker 5: a lot of the foundations in place, but certainly with

69
00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:29,000
Speaker 5: what has happened overnight with the Senate in Canberra puts

70
00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:30,760
Speaker 5: US in a good position to look at how we

71
00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:36,240
Speaker 5: explore the pathway forward around the voluntary assisted dying. I

72
00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:42,560
Speaker 5: think last night was repealing that previous prohibition of us

73
00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,440
Speaker 5: to be able to make those particular laws.

74
00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,040
Speaker 4: But it restores those rights.

75
00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:48,560
Speaker 5: But I think as Bill and Robin and I all

76
00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,480
Speaker 5: know that this is a journey now around anything that

77
00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,480
Speaker 5: were to happen would need extensive and thorough consultation.

78
00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,000
Speaker 1: This is I guess the other part of the discussion.

79
00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,640
Speaker 1: We do also know that amendments by the Coalition Senator

80
00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,600
Speaker 1: just Enter Price, Northern Territory Senator, were put forward to

81
00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,840
Speaker 1: impose caveates on Territorians that would not allow people with

82
00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,960
Speaker 1: disabilities and mental illness to access voluntary assisted dying if

83
00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:14,680
Speaker 1: they suffered no other condition.

84
00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,159
Speaker 7: Now they were knocked back.

85
00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,679
Speaker 1: We also know that the Act, the Act Chief Minister

86
00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,760
Speaker 1: Andrew bar has revealed that the Act is going to

87
00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,240
Speaker 1: look to legislate voluntary assisted dying within as soon as

88
00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,479
Speaker 1: twelve months. So he's basically said we will have a

89
00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,640
Speaker 1: thorough and engaged process and it will be a conscience vote.

90
00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:34,479
Speaker 1: I think it will bring out the best in the

91
00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:38,360
Speaker 1: Act Parliament is what he said. Now, Chancey, from my understanding,

92
00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,159
Speaker 1: based on I think the statement that the Chief Minister

93
00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,240
Speaker 1: and you had sent out last night, it's not something

94
00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,080
Speaker 1: that you're looking at doing within this term of government.

95
00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,599
Speaker 1: The Labor Government aren't looking at doing this sort of

96
00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:52,679
Speaker 1: too quickly by the look of things.

97
00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,960
Speaker 5: Yes, certainly, look the position first up is for their

98
00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,560
Speaker 5: Labor Party members. It's a conscience vote and that would

99
00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,159
Speaker 5: be the floor of Parliament. We've said that it wouldn't

100
00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:06,200
Speaker 5: be this term because unlike the Act, we are a

101
00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:11,040
Speaker 5: very large jurisdiction and the consultation needs to be far

102
00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:15,240
Speaker 5: and wide, making sure that everyone across the territory has

103
00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:19,560
Speaker 5: the opportunity one around the education around what voluntary assists,

104
00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,839
Speaker 5: the dying means and the practicalities of it, and also

105
00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:28,000
Speaker 5: the sensitivities and the cultural consideration. So I imagine that this

106
00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,480
Speaker 5: is certainly something that would you take a couple of

107
00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,520
Speaker 5: years in its consultation, and why.

108
00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,839
Speaker 1: You reckon because of the tyranny of distance, I guess

109
00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,680
Speaker 1: in the territory and that consultation process you just reckon

110
00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:39,640
Speaker 1: it would take much longer.

111
00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,760
Speaker 5: It's absolutely it's an aspect of it, but it's certainly

112
00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:48,000
Speaker 5: something that we have to do on a bipartisan in

113
00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,479
Speaker 5: a nature. We have to work with all members of

114
00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,520
Speaker 5: the Legislative Assembly to make sure that it is done

115
00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,479
Speaker 5: in a way that everyone feels like they've got adequate

116
00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,440
Speaker 5: input and feedback and the construction in to how it

117
00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:01,680
Speaker 5: would go out to the community.

118
00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:03,720
Speaker 6: That's one of those things where we should be looking

119
00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:09,320
Speaker 6: at probably Strutiny Committee, Legislate Assembly scrutiny community to oversee

120
00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:13,080
Speaker 6: this like this is pretty important legislation and as chances

121
00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,240
Speaker 6: right to be able to get that message out and

122
00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,720
Speaker 6: get that information feedback from right across our community. Because

123
00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,039
Speaker 6: the territory is so diverse, that's going to take a

124
00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:22,600
Speaker 6: lot of time to do to be able to talk

125
00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,960
Speaker 6: to people in the communities, the people in the urban

126
00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,640
Speaker 6: centers and get that feedback and get their understanding.

127
00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,480
Speaker 2: I don't know what the positions are of the people

128
00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:34,640
Speaker 2: in the labor caucus at the moment. Certainly in the

129
00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:40,960
Speaker 2: last parliament it was pretty obvious that voluntary euthanasia didn't

130
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,680
Speaker 2: have the support of the Labor caucus, so I think

131
00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,040
Speaker 2: that's probably a factory and why they're pushing it out

132
00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:50,160
Speaker 2: into the next parliament. Labor probably don't have support within

133
00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,640
Speaker 2: their caucus for it. You know, I'm no fan of

134
00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:58,080
Speaker 2: voluntary euthanasia, and I think, you know, politically, to bring

135
00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,400
Speaker 2: it on before the next when you don't have the

136
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,240
Speaker 2: support within your own caucus or for the COORP in

137
00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,919
Speaker 2: their own wing, would be pretty stupid. So I suspect

138
00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,120
Speaker 2: that that's one of the reasons why the Chief Ministers

139
00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,320
Speaker 2: said that they won't bring it on until the next election.

140
00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,280
Speaker 2: I mean, if the Act can bring it on in

141
00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,000
Speaker 2: the next couple of years, then theoretically so could we.

142
00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,240
Speaker 2: But you know, it's one of those really sensitive issues

143
00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,320
Speaker 2: and I know a lot of Aboriginal people are very

144
00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,840
Speaker 2: fearful of it, so you know, politically, it might not

145
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,680
Speaker 2: be in the best interests of the Labor government to

146
00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,160
Speaker 2: bring it on before the next election.

147
00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:36,600
Speaker 5: For that reason, I certainly acknowledged Roman's comments. I feel

148
00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,080
Speaker 5: like we're in a good position. But again I think

149
00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,520
Speaker 5: that the Act is such a small jurisdiction and as an.

150
00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,000
Speaker 4: Average small one, yeah, but not in land size.

151
00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,680
Speaker 5: As an Aboriginal person, I would want to make sure

152
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,720
Speaker 5: that we had gone out to every single corner of

153
00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,760
Speaker 5: the Northern territory and consulted with people. And I just

154
00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,000
Speaker 5: certainly think that this is not something that we want

155
00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:57,920
Speaker 5: to rush.

156
00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,600
Speaker 2: The last referendum was in ninety eight. I just looked

157
00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,320
Speaker 2: it up, so it was a year after it was

158
00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:07,840
Speaker 2: thrown out of our voluntary euthanasia laws were thrown out

159
00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,400
Speaker 2: by the federal government, So that was pretty quick to

160
00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,440
Speaker 2: bring up a referendum within twelve to eighteen months after

161
00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,880
Speaker 2: that happened. This is a hot potato, you know. I

162
00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,200
Speaker 2: think even though most of the other states, or if

163
00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,280
Speaker 2: not all the other states, have passed voluntary euthanasia laws,

164
00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:25,840
Speaker 2: I think for the territory it's a different kettle of fish.

165
00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,840
Speaker 2: We've got a very large proportion of Aboriginal people, as

166
00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,840
Speaker 2: I say, a lot of them very religious, and I

167
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,199
Speaker 2: don't know that they would be very supportive of this.

168
00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:38,680
Speaker 2: There's a lot of suspicion around anything like this for

169
00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,479
Speaker 2: white and black, so it's potentially very very divisive.

170
00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think we have seen how that can

171
00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:49,120
Speaker 5: play out. Last term. I think it was the IRU

172
00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:53,199
Speaker 5: four eight six. Yeah, a debate that we had and again.

173
00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,240
Speaker 2: That wasn't a conscience vote was these are very sensitive.

174
00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,360
Speaker 4: These are very sensitive issues.

175
00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,440
Speaker 1: So it has to be real education process and I

176
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,800
Speaker 1: get it. I'd certainly take on board you know what

177
00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,679
Speaker 1: you're saying, Chancey in that space, and I do take

178
00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:07,320
Speaker 1: on board. But what you're saying as well, Robin, in

179
00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,960
Speaker 1: terms of it being you know, it is a political

180
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,680
Speaker 1: hot potato and it's probably not a real politically a

181
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:14,600
Speaker 1: student move.

182
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,040
Speaker 3: They might want to be bringing in just before an election.

183
00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:19,000
Speaker 3: Works so well.

184
00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,520
Speaker 2: For the anti discrimination bill that was brought through Parliament

185
00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:24,959
Speaker 2: last week, that should have been a conscience vote too.

186
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,400
Speaker 2: There were lots of things in that bill that are

187
00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,840
Speaker 2: about values and beliefs deep to all of us. Labor

188
00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,360
Speaker 2: wouldn't give their members a conscience vote, and a lot

189
00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,079
Speaker 2: of those Labor members that clearly didn't agree with aspects

190
00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,360
Speaker 2: of that bill were not allowed to have a conscience vote.

191
00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,679
Speaker 2: So you know, this is where you know, people listening

192
00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,360
Speaker 2: keep an eye on this because Labor play tricks around

193
00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:49,880
Speaker 2: this sort of stuff. They look to push through their

194
00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,199
Speaker 2: own social agendas social engineering.

195
00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,440
Speaker 5: We've always had a position where issues around life and

196
00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,600
Speaker 5: death are conscience votes and that's wh this will be

197
00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,360
Speaker 5: for the party should it ever get to the Legislative

198
00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,120
Speaker 5: Assembly following rigorous consultation.

199
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,360
Speaker 1: Well, look, we might take a very short break. There

200
00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,920
Speaker 1: is a lot to discuss this week. There always is

201
00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,120
Speaker 1: when Parliament sits, so we'll take a very quick break.

202
00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,760
Speaker 1: You are listening to mix one oh four nine's three sixty.

203
00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,040
Speaker 1: It is the week that was. If you've just joined

204
00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,920
Speaker 1: us well in the studio this morning, Central Australia, well

205
00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:22,439
Speaker 1: and truly representing.

206
00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:23,480
Speaker 7: We've got Chancey Paik.

207
00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,240
Speaker 1: We've also got Bill Yan and Robin Lamley in the

208
00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,600
Speaker 1: studio this morning, and we know that there has been

209
00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,640
Speaker 1: a lot happen really in the last two weeks of

210
00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:36,760
Speaker 1: parliamentary sittings. They ended yesterday and this week the Northern

211
00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,920
Speaker 1: Territory became the first Australian state or territory to raise

212
00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:45,080
Speaker 1: the age of criminal responsibility after what has been described

213
00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,720
Speaker 1: as very extensive debate in parliament. I know that the

214
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,199
Speaker 1: government pushed to raise the age from ten to twelve

215
00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,600
Speaker 1: in parliament. Chancey Paike, of course, issuing a statement throughout

216
00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,600
Speaker 1: the week saying that it means children aged eleven years

217
00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,960
Speaker 1: or younger will not be criminal responsible for their behavior

218
00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:07,040
Speaker 1: and will instead be referred to intervention and family support programs.

219
00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,680
Speaker 7: So there's no doubt.

220
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,560
Speaker 1: That this legislation has caused a lot of people to

221
00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,400
Speaker 1: have very differing opinions. I'm sure that absolutely everybody in

222
00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,360
Speaker 1: this room's probably got quite differing opinions because as we're

223
00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,080
Speaker 1: doing this in Parliament, we know that the Northern Territory

224
00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,439
Speaker 1: is realistically been battling what can only be described I

225
00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:27,559
Speaker 1: think as a crime.

226
00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:31,960
Speaker 2: Crisis, definitely, and it's spreading right across the Northern Territory.

227
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,000
Speaker 2: I think down in Allice Springs we've been seeing it

228
00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:40,760
Speaker 2: blow out escalade for many years. But Katie, in an

229
00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,520
Speaker 2: ideal world, we don't have child criminals, we don't have

230
00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,480
Speaker 2: children that are abused and neglected, roaming the streets at

231
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,160
Speaker 2: nine and getting up to mischief. But that's far from

232
00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,920
Speaker 2: the reality of where we are in the Northern Territory.

233
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,720
Speaker 2: So I think the timing is all wrong. I think

234
00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,960
Speaker 2: after you reduce crime, you consider something like this. No

235
00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,319
Speaker 2: one wants to see kids locked up, but we have

236
00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:10,120
Speaker 2: children on the streets doing all sorts of despicable things

237
00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,920
Speaker 2: that are making people's lives a misery. And there has

238
00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,880
Speaker 2: to be consequences. And I only think back into my

239
00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:21,559
Speaker 2: own childhood and rearing children. There has to be consequences

240
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:26,320
Speaker 2: for behavior, and this legislation has taken away all consequences.

241
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,320
Speaker 1: Look, I've got a child that is eleven years old,

242
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,200
Speaker 1: and I've got to tell you that she does know

243
00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,800
Speaker 1: right from wrong. I do believe that she knows right

244
00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,439
Speaker 1: from wrong. And you know, I will say that I like, obviously,

245
00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,600
Speaker 1: she's very fortunate to grow up in a household where

246
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,400
Speaker 1: you know where I am there keeping a close eye

247
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,480
Speaker 1: on her. She's got a safe place to go, she's

248
00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,120
Speaker 1: got you know, she's got family that cares for her.

249
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:55,559
Speaker 1: And I know that everybody's personal situation is indeed incredibly different.

250
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:57,640
Speaker 7: And I like, I agree.

251
00:12:57,679 --> 00:12:59,920
Speaker 1: I don't think we want a situation where kids are

252
00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,520
Speaker 1: being locked up in jail. And my understanding is that

253
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,680
Speaker 1: it is a very small proportion that do actually go

254
00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,240
Speaker 1: into detention under the age of twelve years old. But

255
00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:11,840
Speaker 1: the big thing for me, I think, is that I

256
00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,560
Speaker 1: want to know that there are those programs in place

257
00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,640
Speaker 1: and that there are measures in place that if you

258
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:23,080
Speaker 1: have got young people that are on track in offending

259
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,880
Speaker 1: and doing the wrong thing, that you know that we've

260
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:29,319
Speaker 1: got programs and we've got initiatives to be able to

261
00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,240
Speaker 1: not only get them off that track, but also for

262
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:38,480
Speaker 1: there to be consequences if there have been incredibly bad actions.

263
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,760
Speaker 6: There's a couple of worrying parts about this, Kadie, and

264
00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,040
Speaker 6: changing age criminal responsibility is not going to reduce crime.

265
00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:46,800
Speaker 3: In effect, that's not going to change.

266
00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,400
Speaker 6: We're still going to see those issues, particularly in Central Australia.

267
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,200
Speaker 3: But my concern is that.

268
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,000
Speaker 6: With not being able to be charged under twelve years old,

269
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,320
Speaker 6: and there's no direction from a court to be able

270
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,760
Speaker 6: to send someone to do a program or take part

271
00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,080
Speaker 6: in an intervention.

272
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:03,480
Speaker 3: Of some kind.

273
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,040
Speaker 6: Now I agree with Robin we shouldn't be putting kids

274
00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,240
Speaker 6: that young intered detention on the first one to say that,

275
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,080
Speaker 6: and I said, I've been witnessed to that during my

276
00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,880
Speaker 6: old career. But it gets to a point if you

277
00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,679
Speaker 6: have kids that are doing bad things. Sadly, if they're

278
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,040
Speaker 6: doing bad things and they're escalating during that period, there's

279
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,280
Speaker 6: no criminal responsibility, there's no record, there's no direction that

280
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,960
Speaker 6: you must go and take part in something. It's only voluntary,

281
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,760
Speaker 6: and all of a sudden they're going to get to twelve,

282
00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,440
Speaker 6: and they've not had or not been made to take

283
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,240
Speaker 6: part in some of those programs because if.

284
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:37,240
Speaker 3: They don't want it, they don't have to.

285
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,080
Speaker 6: There's nothing that compels a child under twelve to take

286
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,160
Speaker 6: part in those programs from what I can see in

287
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,200
Speaker 6: the legislation. So it's possible we could see kids escalating

288
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,760
Speaker 6: to a point where they're committing worse and worse and

289
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,880
Speaker 6: worse crimes, and then all of a sudden, we've got

290
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,480
Speaker 6: the situation will be and we'll have these kids that

291
00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,600
Speaker 6: have hit that age of thirteen years old, wrap shoots

292
00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,920
Speaker 6: quite long, and they've not had to actually take part

293
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,480
Speaker 6: in any programs or any inventions to deal with some

294
00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:07,400
Speaker 6: of those behaviors.

295
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 1: Chelsey, I know that you told us on the show

296
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,920
Speaker 1: last time you were here, you had said that you

297
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,880
Speaker 1: know that this legislation or that you know it would

298
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,720
Speaker 1: not come into effect until there were those programs in

299
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,400
Speaker 1: place to ensure that the community was kept safe. Where

300
00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,200
Speaker 1: are things that from your perspective in that area.

301
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,360
Speaker 5: Yes, so certainly this sitting period, we've introduced it and

302
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,840
Speaker 5: passed to the legislation, and that all commence by a

303
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,040
Speaker 5: gazette notice. So again I've made it very clear that

304
00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,200
Speaker 5: that'll happen, you know, the second half of next year.

305
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,840
Speaker 5: That enables us to work with the Implementation Committee on

306
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:46,720
Speaker 5: the development of any additional programs and the expansion of

307
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,760
Speaker 5: a number of existing programs. So my parliamentary colleague and

308
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:54,640
Speaker 5: my ministerial colleague Kate Warden works in the Territory family

309
00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,880
Speaker 5: space around looking at the programs that are working and

310
00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,680
Speaker 5: the expansion there, and then looking at some programs which

311
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,560
Speaker 5: we're not happy with the results that we're seeing and

312
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,520
Speaker 5: working with them to develop additional programs.

313
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,440
Speaker 4: But you know, I guess this is coming from an

314
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:10,600
Speaker 4: evidence based approach.

315
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:15,560
Speaker 5: There's been extensive research nationally and internationally, and you know,

316
00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:20,040
Speaker 5: absolutely we don't want to see children are going into

317
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,080
Speaker 5: youth detention. And over the last three years it's been

318
00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,560
Speaker 5: less than ten children under the age of twelve who

319
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,440
Speaker 5: have been in our youth detention.

320
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,280
Speaker 1: So less than ten in what period of time three years?

321
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,000
Speaker 2: The Chancey we're the only jurisdiction now in Australia that

322
00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:41,760
Speaker 2: has introduced this legislation increasing the age of criminal responsibility

323
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,480
Speaker 2: from ten to twelve. So how can you say there's

324
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:48,440
Speaker 2: evidence of anything when it hasn't even been tried here.

325
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,600
Speaker 5: Because I guess Robin, outside of Australia, there's a thing

326
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,920
Speaker 5: called the rest of the world, and this is where

327
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:57,320
Speaker 5: they're doing extensive work in a number of countries right

328
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,000
Speaker 5: across the world. And it is clear the Royal Commission

329
00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,440
Speaker 5: into the Detention and Protection of Young People in the

330
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,679
Speaker 5: Northern Territory and that absolutely was a recommendation of that

331
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:13,320
Speaker 5: Royal Commission. And yes there are diversion mechanisms as programs

332
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:18,240
Speaker 5: and absolutely territory families will be working with the young

333
00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,480
Speaker 5: people to participate in those programs.

334
00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:21,840
Speaker 7: I want to wrap my head around.

335
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,159
Speaker 1: So for the police, let's say, like I want to

336
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,600
Speaker 1: sort of try to work out exactly how this how

337
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,800
Speaker 1: this happens, you know, in effect basically, So let's say

338
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,199
Speaker 1: that we're in a situation where a young person is

339
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,119
Speaker 1: involved in the theft of a car. They're eleven years old,

340
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,119
Speaker 1: they are behind the wheel of a vehicle, and this

341
00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:43,879
Speaker 1: is this is something that we have heard about on

342
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,720
Speaker 1: this show before. A young person allegedly eleven years old

343
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,920
Speaker 1: behind the wheel of a car, stolen that car, apprehended

344
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,080
Speaker 1: by the police. What is the process then, from the

345
00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,880
Speaker 1: police perspective, so they apprehend this young person. But then

346
00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:01,879
Speaker 1: what has to happen do the police Are the police

347
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,840
Speaker 1: able to still keep them apprehended until what they get

348
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:06,639
Speaker 1: taken home?

349
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:07,639
Speaker 4: They do?

350
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:08,320
Speaker 7: You know what I mean?

351
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,600
Speaker 5: What's the process in terms of the practicality if territory family,

352
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,320
Speaker 5: if a young person is involved in anti social behavior,

353
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:20,199
Speaker 5: the police absolutely will will continue to intervene and do

354
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,679
Speaker 5: what is required to keep the community safe under the

355
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:23,680
Speaker 5: Care and Protection Act.

356
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,320
Speaker 1: But do we consider a car being stolen anti social

357
00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,000
Speaker 1: behavior now? Because it's criminal like it is criminal behavior?

358
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,560
Speaker 5: Is so the police will intervene Katie to absolutely keep

359
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,119
Speaker 5: the community safe. When that young person is back in

360
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,680
Speaker 5: the watchhouse, they'll work with and be referred to Territory

361
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,720
Speaker 5: Families where it will then go through a range of

362
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:45,080
Speaker 5: options and assessments to determine the best outcomes for that childhood.

363
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:45,760
Speaker 2: What does that mean?

364
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:50,919
Speaker 5: And the victim will still be eligible to all of

365
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:56,920
Speaker 5: the victims of crime compensations and support systems.

366
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:57,600
Speaker 2: Goes home with no consequences.

367
00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,320
Speaker 1: Look, I guess most people will tell you who have

368
00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,720
Speaker 1: been victims of crime in the territory. They will say that,

369
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,160
Speaker 1: you know, while victims of crime do a phenomenal job.

370
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,040
Speaker 1: The compensation what you get is not is not much.

371
00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,959
Speaker 1: People are pretty frustrated by all of that. But so

372
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,320
Speaker 1: I guess again, So basically, if somebody, if if a

373
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,760
Speaker 1: young person is taken to the watchhouse and they're apprehended,

374
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,600
Speaker 1: kept in the watchouse until territory families is notified, then

375
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,280
Speaker 1: either taken home or depending on where they're staying.

376
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,520
Speaker 5: There's the option Katie for you know, them to be

377
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,480
Speaker 5: referred to a diversion cam, restorative justice practices and the

378
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:39,439
Speaker 5: intensive family supports. There are different options depending on thee robins.

379
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:40,399
Speaker 7: Are they voluntary?

380
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,240
Speaker 5: We have said that if we need to draw on

381
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:48,159
Speaker 5: other acts to ensure that they finish and complete those programs,

382
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:49,400
Speaker 5: then we will.

383
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:51,920
Speaker 1: At this point in time, it is safe to say

384
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,199
Speaker 1: that they are voluntary unless you draw on those other acts.

385
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,240
Speaker 5: If we need to use the power of existing acts,

386
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,040
Speaker 5: what existing enable that to happen, then we will what

387
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:03,040
Speaker 5: existing acts.

388
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,119
Speaker 6: And the police have said the police have come out

389
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,600
Speaker 6: and said they can't touch can't touch the kids. I

390
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,800
Speaker 6: think the police here after this was introduced a couple

391
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,240
Speaker 6: of months ago, actually said if a child attacks somebody

392
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,639
Speaker 6: at school, don't call us. We can't do anything. We

393
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,359
Speaker 6: aren't as a child that's not ring their parents.

394
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:21,159
Speaker 4: That's not true.

395
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,960
Speaker 5: Police do and will continue to intervene to do what

396
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,639
Speaker 5: is required to keep the community safe. They can still

397
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,480
Speaker 5: apprehend a young person if it is in the best

398
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,800
Speaker 5: interest of keeping the community then stopping.

399
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,000
Speaker 1: I suppose if you know, like for a young person,

400
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,200
Speaker 1: if you're then you're apprehended by the police territory families,

401
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 1: then you know to let's say, come and pick that

402
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,720
Speaker 1: child up or a family member comes and picks that

403
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 1: child up and they're back out on the street again

404
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 1: that night.

405
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,800
Speaker 5: So again, this is that work that Minister Ward has

406
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:58,119
Speaker 5: been doing, particularly in the Southern region, around the places

407
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:03,640
Speaker 5: of the safety for young children to be in if

408
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,160
Speaker 5: there is not a safe place for them to go

409
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:08,360
Speaker 5: after hours.

410
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 7: And I do.

411
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,040
Speaker 1: I did note as well throughout the week that it

412
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 1: was being reported that in the next two years it

413
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 1: is something that the government's going to review and that

414
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 1: you are keen to raise that age again up to fourteen.

415
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:20,840
Speaker 7: Is that correct?

416
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 5: We have said that we would review the legislation to

417
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,200
Speaker 5: see how it is working.

418
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 1: I think that's in step with the way that the

419
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 1: community feels at the moment in terms of not feeling safe.

420
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 2: Definitely not.

421
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 3: These are certainly not at home.

422
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 5: There's a whole bunch of work across various portfolios, absolutely

423
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,119
Speaker 5: looking at and continuing to respond to the needs of

424
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,679
Speaker 5: the community and will continue to do that. I mean,

425
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 5: Minister Warden working with the police. There's been an additional

426
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 5: forty police in Alice Springs and that is seeing positive results.

427
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 1: I do want to talk about that because there's actually,

428
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 1: as you've said, an additional forty police. They have made

429
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:02,640
Speaker 1: twenty four arrests since operationna was launched. The operation has

430
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:07,680
Speaker 1: also seen essentially one hundred and sixty eight people taken

431
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 1: into protective custody. They've destroyed two hundred and twenty nine

432
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 1: leaders of GROG and issued twenty nine traffic.

433
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,679
Speaker 7: Fines in the last six days. Well, it does make

434
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 7: a question why it didn't happen sooner.

435
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 2: Well, it took a lot to get the government to

436
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 2: take this extreme action, Katie. It took two extraordinary police

437
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 2: alerts within two weeks after kids were driving dangerously stolen

438
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 2: cars around the CBD, endangering their lives and the lives

439
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,880
Speaker 2: of the community. And years of people like me barking

440
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,400
Speaker 2: at the government telling them how bad things are. I mean,

441
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 2: just to go back a little bit to what Chancey

442
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 2: was saying, the problem with what they've done here is

443
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 2: that it's radical and fairly dangerous legislation that they've brought

444
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 2: in and they haven't got answers to the most basic questions.

445
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,919
Speaker 2: I had a briefing on this increasing age of criminal

446
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 2: responsibility the week before it went through, asking all the

447
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,400
Speaker 2: questions that you've asked and more, and they couldn't be answered.

448
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 2: And I'm not hearing answers from the Attorney General either,

449
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 2: and it's not good enough. If you're going to bring

450
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 2: in these radical lefty changes, then for God's sake, have

451
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 2: some answers to the questions, and.

452
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 6: Particularly around those really violent and really bad offenses and

453
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 6: shareley they are committed by people. The young people are

454
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 6: committing some of these really bad offenses. And it was

455
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 6: raised by Keyser in Parliament and what took place in England.

456
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,239
Speaker 2: It was me. I did a lot of research in

457
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 2: preparation for the debate, looking at heinous, horrible crimes undertaken

458
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 2: by children under the age of twelve across the world,

459
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,439
Speaker 2: and the one that stood out was a case in

460
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 2: which a two year old boy called James Boulger in

461
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three, and I remember this very very well.

462
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,719
Speaker 2: It rocked the whole world. It was just a horrible crime.

463
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 2: He was murdered and taught by two ten year olds. Now,

464
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 2: I asked the question in Parliament of the Attorney General,

465
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 2: what would happen is something like that happened in the

466
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,479
Speaker 2: Northern Territory, God forbid? And I didn't hear an answer

467
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 2: to that either. It wasn't really addressed, and so I

468
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,959
Speaker 2: can only assume that nothing would happen under this legislation.

469
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 5: I did respond to the Member for Ara lun one cent.

470
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 5: Absolutely there would be psychological and forensic assessments and orders

471
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 5: as part of those relevant acts, which would look at

472
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 5: institutional lives and the treatment that would need to be

473
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 5: underway for those individuals.

474
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 2: But these kids were not mad, they were bad chancy.

475
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 2: There were psychological assessments done of these two ten year

476
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,239
Speaker 2: olds in the UK back in ninety three and they

477
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 2: were deemed as not mentally ill and fully conscious, conscious

478
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 2: of right and wrong.

479
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 3: And with these changes there'll be no record of those acts.

480
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 1: Well, and look, the situation that we're in now within

481
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,239
Speaker 1: the Northern Territory is that the changes have passed, and

482
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: I think what the community really now needs to hear

483
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,239
Speaker 1: or wants to hear, is that there are going to

484
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,959
Speaker 1: be programs in place and that children are going to

485
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 1: have to actually complete these programs if they do the

486
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: wrong thing, because I don't think you have to walk

487
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 1: very far down the street in the territory at the

488
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: moment to find a.

489
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 7: Victim of crime.

490
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: It's you know, people are pretty broken and they're feeling

491
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,959
Speaker 1: really quite disheartened at this point, you know, when it

492
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 1: comes to crime. And I know that now in Alice

493
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: Springs we have seen some change come into place. We've

494
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 1: seen the additional police brought into the town. But I

495
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: can't express it enough. And I know that I've said

496
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: it to you before, Chancey. I know I've said it

497
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: to both you Bill and Robin before. The sense around

498
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 1: the community when it comes to crime is people are.

499
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 7: Broken over it. And I think that all of us

500
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 7: sort of understand.

501
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 6: That their communities are broken, Katie. They're just everybody, particularly

502
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 6: at home, is it their wits end. And and the

503
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 6: fact that it had to get as bad as what

504
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 6: it did a couple of weeks ago for government to

505
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 6: finally actually take some action to deal with it. Kids

506
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 6: stealing cars and ramming police cars and stuff like that,

507
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 6: and not just.

508
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 3: Now the Springs, but in Catherine as well. The fact

509
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 3: that it had to.

510
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 6: Get that bad, and when we've been calling for action

511
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 6: and calling for help and screaming for help for so long,

512
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 6: that had to get to that to finally lift forty

513
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 6: police officers and bring them into Elves to actually help us.

514
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 2: It is bad. We're all suffering. And I acknowledge the

515
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 2: fact that most of these children that are committing these crimes,

516
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 2: their lives are very bad too, So the problems are

517
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 2: across the board. You know. The research shows that most

518
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 2: kids that commit these heinous crimes come from terribly dysfunctional,

519
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 2: violent families. So, you know, the elephant in the room

520
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 2: in the Northern Territory is always the fact that we

521
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 2: are presiding over a very large group of kids, mainly

522
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 2: Aboriginal kids, that are being abused and neglected, and that

523
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 2: is the responsibility of the Northern Territory government too and

524
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 2: the parents to try and address that. I get where

525
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 2: the government's going with this, but the timing is all wrong.

526
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 2: Get on top of crime, don't turn the rivers of

527
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 2: grog on throughout the Northern Territory like you did in

528
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 2: July Chancy, that was the biggest mistake you've done in

529
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 2: the history of the Northern Territory is to allow access

530
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 2: to alcohol. As a result, we've seen increased levels of

531
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 2: domestic violence and child abuse and crime right across the territory.

532
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 5: Look, I think in response to what's happening in Alice,

533
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 5: I think it's important to acknowledge that Minister Warden has

534
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 5: brought together the Social Order Response Group, and I just

535
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 5: acknowledge all of those players who have been there working

536
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 5: with Minister Warden around the table to do that. I

537
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 5: certainly know that there's a conversation around the Commonwealth contribution

538
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 5: for what justice reinvestment looks like, and particularly Central Austjaia

539
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 5: being identified as one of those sites.

540
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 4: Look, there's always.

541
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 5: Going to be work to be done, and absolutely happy

542
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 5: to continue to work with members in the community around

543
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 5: what those possible options and solutions are as long as

544
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 5: they don't result in violence.

545
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 1: I did catch up with the mayor of Allice Springs

546
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 1: a bit earlier in the week as well, Matt Patterson.

547
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: He had said that you know, they are quite worried

548
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: about when the police leave and you know what impact

549
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: is going to be had over that Christmas period and

550
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: over that summer period. But then we also know there

551
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: were questions asked throughout the week, and we did speak

552
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: to the Police Association as well through the week, who

553
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: did confirm that at least one remote police station had

554
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: been unmanned as a result of needing to draw police

555
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: officers from different locations around the territory to be able

556
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: to surge up in Alice Springs. And I guess my

557
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: big question was, how are we sort of able to

558
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: surge up for something like you know, the Biki gangs

559
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: in town like we've seen a little while back, but

560
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: not able to surge up when required in places like Allison.

561
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: It did make me question our police numbers and how

562
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: things were tracking in that sense. So there's a lot

563
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: of other sort of side discussions going on, I think

564
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: when we talk about some of the issues that we're

565
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: experiencing right now.

566
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 3: Well, look, the.

567
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 6: Police only came out, I think it was this week

568
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 6: and said that they're thirty five down on the previous year.

569
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 6: Police on the ground are saying that they're understaff, they're

570
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 6: over work, they're doing crazy amounts of overtime just to

571
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 6: try and keep up with what's taking place. And you

572
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 6: can only do that for so long until you personally

573
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 6: as an individual reached that breaking point.

574
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 3: You can only push for so.

575
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 6: Long, and in incredibly difficult circumstances that our police are dealing.

576
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: With every day, we might take a very short break.

577
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: You're listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.

578
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 7: It is the week that was.

579
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: If you've just joined us, well, we've got Chancey, Peig,

580
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: bill Yan and Robin Lamley in the studio this morning

581
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: and there's been a lot happened throughout this week, no

582
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 1: shortage of things to report on. And one of the

583
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: announcements that we learned about, well I learned about it

584
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: during question time on Wednesday when there was a question

585
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: asked about about cost of living, and then the Education

586
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: Minister stood up and said that teachers have been offered

587
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: a pay another payoffer and I thought, oh, I hadn't

588
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: heard about this yet, but anyway, got the union on

589
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: and found out a bit more is that when everyone

590
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: else learned about it.

591
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 2: Too, well I did too.

592
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 7: Yeah.

593
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 2: I haven't really been following this plaster, but it doesn't

594
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 2: surprise me that the government wants to just get rid

595
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 2: of this before Christmas.

596
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: Well, yes, so teachers have indeed been offered a nine

597
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: percent pay rise by October twenty twenty three, so it's

598
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: in a bit of course to retain the territory's top educators.

599
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: So essentially it's three plus three plus three and it

600
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: is also going to be backdated as I understand it

601
00:30:55,560 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: to is it October twenty twenty one. I think there's

602
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: a couple of other added extras, i e. An additional

603
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: hour of non contact time per week for graduate teachers,

604
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: an additional pupil free day on the last day of

605
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: term four each year from twenty twenty three, which is

606
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: every parent's worst nightmare really, the.

607
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 7: Additional pupil free.

608
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: One, but happy to keep our good teachers if it's

609
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: what it takes. And up to five hours of corresponding

610
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: non contact time per semester for graduate teachers mentors as

611
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: well where possible. So so finally a bit of movement.

612
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: It's gone out to vote. The teachers have to come

613
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: back by the twelfth of December. Last day of school's

614
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: the fifteenth.

615
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 3: That's a big urban school.

616
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 6: It's a big backflot from the pay freeze. Katie, that's

617
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 6: for sure, all of a sudden, it's through yes, degree

618
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 6: of difficulty four point two free twist teachers. And this

619
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:02,479
Speaker 6: is the pay freesers never going to work. We're losing

620
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 6: people to other states and other jurisdictions. We need to

621
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 6: do stuff to keep our people here and to freeze

622
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 6: pays when we've got higher cost of living inflations at

623
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 6: a high rate. To not give people pay rise, it

624
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 6: was just it was just crazy. But at least now

625
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 6: they said the teachers are looking to get something. But

626
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 6: there's others also that are looking to get pay rises

627
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 6: as well. I know that police fires and of course

628
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 6: correctional officers. But where's the money going to come from?

629
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 6: Is it going to be increases in budgets to education

630
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 6: or they are going to have to find these increases

631
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 6: from within, And.

632
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 3: If they do, then where they've.

633
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 6: Got to reduce services, They've got to reduce services somewhere else.

634
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 1: It's a very good question, and it is something that

635
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: was raised on the Show with Us yesterday by Beverly Ratahi,

636
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: of course from the to me Men, the chair of

637
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: to me Men College. So just take a listen to

638
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: what she'd had to say on the show to us yesterday.

639
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 8: Just last week, school ret bodies were informed that the

640
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 8: Department had required schools to allocate I think it was

641
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 8: two thousand dollars.

642
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 9: Per teacher next year in the draft twenty twenty three budgets.

643
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 9: Now that's clearly before the revised paid offer. That would

644
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 9: mean I'm just judging on what you said. It said

645
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 9: three percent back pay from October last year, three percent

646
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 9: from October this year. So that's all going to have

647
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 9: to come out of our budget, which is six percent,

648
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 9: So that's going to be significantly more. And you would

649
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 9: recall I asked then Chiefiness, are gonna last November about this?

650
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 9: And he committed that no school would be worth off.

651
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 9: Now we're ninety eight thousand worth of this year just

652
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 9: the admin tainment, so we're going to have to fund

653
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 9: another six percent for teacher EBA next year, where we're

654
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 9: going to be significantly which means back to the tone

655
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 9: to day will be cutting the numbers, having Pogman and

656
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 9: everything is this roundhold day.

657
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 1: So that was one of the chairs of the Schools

658
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: to MIDMN Beverly's speaking to us about that yesterday.

659
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 7: Chancey, where exactly is the money coming from?

660
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, look, I think certainly, just acknowledging that the vote

661
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 5: has gone out, it's got to be returned by the

662
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 5: twelve uh, and certainly encouraging everyone to have their say

663
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 5: on it. As you said, it is nine in total,

664
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 5: three plus three plus three. Look, my understanding is that

665
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 5: it's a mixture and that that will come through to

666
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 5: the budget cabinet considerations.

667
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: So some of it will be within a school's budget

668
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 1: and some of it there's going to be a budget increase.

669
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 1: Do we know what percentage at this point in time.

670
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, Look, well that'll be those considerations that come through

671
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 5: as we do budget cabinet in preparation for the next budget.

672
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 1: Does that make it pretty hard though for schools for

673
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: next year because presumably it's going to impact their operational

674
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: courts for next year?

675
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 4: Certainly.

676
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 5: I mean our Treasurer resource, our Education Minister has been

677
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 5: working with the education sector in this space and certainly

678
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 5: has been working around.

679
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 4: The offer that has been put out.

680
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 5: We had made a previous offer that we thought was

681
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 5: quite a good offer and that wasn't supported, so we

682
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 5: went back to the drawing board, met with the unions

683
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 5: and have put out the offer now. So we'll see

684
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 5: where that gets us at the twelfth and after and

685
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 5: then we'll be able to determine the future.

686
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 2: I just think at this point it's important to consider

687
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 2: why the governments in this position in the first place.

688
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 2: Freezing pays is a false economy. In twenty sixteen, when

689
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 2: they came to government, they overspent twenty seventeen, they had

690
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 2: to commission a budget repair report from a guy from

691
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 2: Western Australia, Langerland, and he said, in order to fix

692
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 2: your budget, which you blew out in record time, you

693
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 2: have to basically freeze the public service and make savings.

694
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 2: And this is where this has all come from. Within

695
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,959
Speaker 2: a couple of months, we went from having a net

696
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 2: debt of less than two billion two up to about

697
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 2: four billion. And that's the context. This is why the

698
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 2: government has implemented these pay freezers right across the board.

699
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 5: I think the former Treasurer for the COLPS being a

700
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 5: little bit cheeky. There there's always been structural issues in

701
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 5: the territory. Challenge to finances well, I mean selling public assets,

702
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 5: multiple change the bottom line, demolishing very cheeky.

703
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,439
Speaker 4: So look, we have done significant work.

704
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 5: We had the Langoland Review which then looked at how

705
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 5: we deal with those financial and those structural issues to

706
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 5: get us on a pathway where we are looking at

707
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 5: our forty billion economy by twenty thirty.

708
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 2: You overspend and Territory and the treasure that she could

709
00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 2: million dollars repaying debt per day, and you try and

710
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 2: sting the teachers.

711
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,760
Speaker 5: It's a hypocritical coming from the treasurer who cut teachers

712
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 5: wages when she was in the.

713
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 2: First treasure for seven months and I cut nobody.

714
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 4: Are still in that cabinet room.

715
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:14,879
Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to be interested to see what has

716
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: to happen though then with this budget in terms of

717
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: footing the bill for this pay offer that's been put

718
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: on the table. And I know that you said, Chancey

719
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: that some of it's going to have to come from

720
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,439
Speaker 1: the school's current budgets and some of it will come

721
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 1: from the global budget, which I'm assuming the Northern Territory

722
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: government's going to, you know, to have to increase in

723
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 1: order for them to be able to foot the bill

724
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: for this. But are schools going to actually have to

725
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: readjust their staffing levels for next year to fund this?

726
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 4: I think the simplest way is there.

727
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 5: It'll be a mixture, Katie, And that's the considerations that

728
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 5: we'll take through when we look at reviewing and working

729
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 5: into the next budget process, all the cabinet ministers come together,

730
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 5: view and work through the portfolio areas. This is one

731
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 5: that will absolutely to.

732
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 2: You be cutting teachers. No, that's you will be cutting

733
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 2: because you will not provided them with the money to

734
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,720
Speaker 2: pay for the hour if.

735
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: They are so, if we are basically if they're going

736
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 1: to be back paid from twenty twenty one Sober twenty

737
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: twenty one so, and then the schools are going to

738
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: have to be partially footing the bill for this. I'm

739
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: just trying to work out when that bill needs to

740
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: be paid and who's going to be paying it for

741
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: the schools?

742
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 2: For next year's money trees out the bag, Katie. I

743
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 2: wish yeah that the labor money trees.

744
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 3: You've been trying to grow one for thin air. I

745
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:44,720
Speaker 3: can't get it to flower well.

746
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 5: I think the Memba Fara Lewin just goes and sells

747
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 5: something to plant another money tree.

748
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 4: We're not cutting.

749
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 5: I think what did you sell TiO the Darwin port.

750
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 5: I mean you've got a history of selling public assets.

751
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 2: The money laid.

752
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 4: Development. That's why your bottom line.

753
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,439
Speaker 5: Which he also looks good. Is because you sold off

754
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 5: long term public ass.

755
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 2: Seven million dollars of dead.

756
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 7: We are going to have to take a bit of

757
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 7: a bank.

758
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,280
Speaker 4: Can count You said that you couldn't.

759
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 7: We're going to take a bit of Well, you're listening

760
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 7: to Mixed one O four nine. Let's take a very

761
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 7: quick break and we'll be back very shortly right here

762
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 7: on Mix. Well, it is just about time for us

763
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:33,839
Speaker 7: to wrap up.

764
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 1: But earlier in the week the discussion was well and

765
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: truly dominated by fishing access and we know that those

766
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: amendments protecting the rights of Aboriginal landowners were passed through Parliament.

767
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: Well it was last week and the amendment, which acknowledges

768
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: the rights of traditional owners to territory coasts, leaves the

769
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: industry though uncertain when it comes to access across the

770
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: Northern Territories waters. We did catch up with the CEO

771
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,040
Speaker 1: of the Seafood Council, the CEO of a FA, and

772
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: we also spoke to the president of king Ashbay Fishing Club,

773
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: who all raised concerns about access and where things are

774
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: at as we head into twenty twenty three. Bill, I

775
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,720
Speaker 1: know you've joined us on the show about this before

776
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: and you had some concerns around Shady Camp.

777
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, look, there's a lot of issues and uncertainly around

778
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,280
Speaker 6: access at the moment cater. The changes of the Fisheries

779
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 6: Act are there to acknowledge the rights and the connection

780
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 6: of Aboriginal people to waters and coasts and resources. And

781
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 6: I get that and we support that, we understand that.

782
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 6: But those changes now go across all waterways across the territory.

783
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 6: But the bigger issue that's facing people is that uncertainty

784
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 6: of access, and that sits around the Blue Mud Bay

785
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 6: decision and all the land claims are still sitting there outstanding,

786
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,800
Speaker 6: and the big one that came out with Shady Camp,

787
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 6: which was particularly the Lands Commissioner made that statement and

788
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 6: report that the only sporadic use of the ramp and

789
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 6: barrage at Shady Camp, which is absolutely ludicrous. There. I've

790
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,879
Speaker 6: seen pictures of boats, like hundreds of boats lined up.

791
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 3: To get into the water there at Shady Camp now.

792
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 6: And the Lands Commissioner actually stated a day from af

793
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 6: hand that she was felt like just giving the grant

794
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 6: or granting the land claim without taking into consideration what

795
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 6: the territory government might actually say. But that goes across

796
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 6: a number of areas. King Ash beays a major one,

797
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 6: like they want to develop and build and grow that

798
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 6: facility down there, but they're now also under a cloud

799
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 6: what's going to happen with access to that waterway. I've

800
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 6: read the lands Claim grant or the detriment report on

801
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 6: that that says, well, we won't include the ramp.

802
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 3: Well that's fine, so you reverse your.

803
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 6: Boat down a ramp which you can't actually take it

804
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,280
Speaker 6: off your trailer and put it into the water because

805
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 6: the water that sits.

806
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 3: On top of that land is part of the grant.

807
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 3: So that's where all this uncertain is coming around.

808
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 6: And it's crossing over into the commercial industry too, and

809
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,760
Speaker 6: it's starting to hurt our investment into where our fisheries

810
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,879
Speaker 6: here in a territory. So it's something the government needs

811
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 6: to work with the Land Counsel and the federal governor

812
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 6: to get sorted out as soon as they possibly can.

813
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: Chancy, are we thinking that this is going to be

814
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: sorted out by sort of early the end of this

815
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: year for early next year so that people have got

816
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: that certainty?

817
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 5: Look, I think building on what Bill has said, certainly,

818
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 5: Minister Yubo, the Aboriginal Affairs Minister and Minister Kirby have

819
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 5: been working with all of the stakeholders, particularly looking at

820
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 5: how we work the pathway forward for this. The commercial

821
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 5: fishing industry is a critical industry and the territory. We

822
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 5: absolutely acknowledge it and will do that work and continue

823
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 5: to do it.

824
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 4: But yeah, it is important.

825
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 5: We've got to work obviously with the Commonwealth as well

826
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 5: around what this looks like. I know that Shady Camp

827
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,800
Speaker 5: has been a matter which is being discussed and the

828
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 5: options and that are being worked through, but also acknowledging

829
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 5: that we need to and will continue to work with

830
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 5: the Northern Land Council around working through these matters in

831
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 5: a sensitive forward taking into count all those considerations.

832
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 1: Well, let's hope that there is able to be an

833
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: outcome found sooner rather than later, so that people have got.

834
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 6: That it's pretty soon, k because the current agreements run

835
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 6: out thirty first of December. Like I've got my permit

836
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 6: that says I'm allowed to go fishing in these places

837
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 6: that ceasars on the thirty first of December, So I'm

838
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 6: going to be back up here in a year and

839
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 6: i might be trying to get out for a fish.

840
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 3: Am I going to be able to go well.

841
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: And this is the thing that she was as a

842
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 1: wreck fisher, and plenty of reck fishes around the territory.

843
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 1: But then when you look at those whose business relies

844
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 1: on it, it's you know, the stakes are even bigger.

845
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 6: Well, you're looking at those commercial operators that are commercial fishes,

846
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 6: but then you've also got the fishing.

847
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 3: Charter operators and anything that accesses the water is going

848
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 3: to be a problem here, like the jumping crop.

849
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 6: Cruises down the Adelaide River, some of those tour operators

850
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 6: that work on some of those billi bonks doing tours

851
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 6: and things like that. All of this is now under

852
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 6: a shadow and is unsuita near across that industry. So

853
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 6: it needs to be dealt with pretty quickly, and the

854
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 6: government need to be coming out and supporting those businesses

855
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 6: and those operators, to NLC and to the federal government

856
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 6: to make sure that they're going to be there in

857
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 6: the future.

858
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:14,320
Speaker 7: Well, we've run out of time.

859
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,359
Speaker 1: It has been the week that Welsh Robin Lambley, thank

860
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 1: you so very much for joining.

861
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 7: Us this morning.

862
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 2: Very much. Katie me next year sounds good.

863
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: Bill Yeah from the CELP, thanks so much for your.

864
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 7: Time this morning.

865
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 3: Katie, and a merry Christmas. So everybody, I'm heading home

866
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:28,879
Speaker 3: and mon't be back probably till New Years.

867
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 7: Well and Chancey Paiked, the Attorney General and Labor rep.

868
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 7: Thank you for your time this morning.

869
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 4: Thanks Katie.

870
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 5: Shout out to everyone who's tuned in, and I know

871
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 5: that myself and my fellows and cha In's here looking

872
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 5: forward to getting back to the Rain.

873
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 7: I hope you all have a safe trip back. Thanks

874
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 7: so much for joining us this morning. Thank you. You're

875
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,240
Speaker 7: listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty