1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: May twenty nine, an event at the Asta Theater which 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: certainly has tweaked my interest, and I'm not the only one. 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: It's called the Psychology of Serial Killers. Tickets for the 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: show are available through ticketech. It is hosted by a 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: renowned forensic psychologist whose name is doctor Rachel Tolds, and 6 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: she joins us now, Hello, Rachel. 7 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 2: Hello, Hi, thank you for having me. This is such 8 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 2: a pleasure. 9 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: Oh, it is a pleasure to have you, not least 10 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: because inquiring minds want to know what is it about me? 11 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: And so many like me that finds this. You know, 12 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 1: we can't deny it entertainment in serial killer stories. 13 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 2: You know, I always say, first of all, true crime 14 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 2: for women at this point is equitable to pornography for men. 15 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 2: It really is. It's our version, you know men. Men 16 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 2: love to talk about sex. Women love to talk about murder. 17 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 2: And that's because women spend Men spend most of their 18 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: lives scanning for sexual quests. Us women spend most of 19 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,559 Speaker 2: our lives scanning to avoid getting murdered. It's just a fact. 20 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 2: You know. A man's biggest fear when he goes on 21 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 2: his first online date is that she's not going to 22 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 2: look like her pictures. A woman's biggest fear she's gonna 23 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 2: get killed. So these are just things to you know, 24 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 2: it's it's I think it's partly that it's like true 25 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 2: crime is like the DIY survival guide for women. We're like, Okay, 26 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 2: if we can figure out just as many scenarios that 27 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 2: could happen to us, will be that much safer. And 28 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 2: I think that that is part of it. But also 29 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 2: I think that there's something very real about true crime 30 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 2: in a way that and I think men are typically 31 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 2: lean more towards fantasy. Like when I talk to men 32 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 2: in my family, I'll say, why don't you like true crime? 33 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 2: And they'll say, it's too close, it's too close. We 34 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 2: prefer like the fun stuff. We like the uplifting stuff. Yeah, 35 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 2: whereas women, I know this is. 36 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: I want to know is I've never but that is 37 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: a really interesting, you know take. I don't think men 38 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: fully appreciate the concept of walking across a car park 39 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: with their car key sticking out between their fingers, and 40 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: women that's just what we do. 41 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 2: It's what was from the moment we come out of 42 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 2: the wound, when we can feel the male gaze, you know, 43 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 2: it's really sad, but it's very true. And little girls, 44 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 2: even at a very young agel like already consents like ooh, 45 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 2: and kids in general, because you learn about that death 46 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 2: is a thing at a very early age. And when 47 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 2: you're around five years old, you're like, wait a minute, 48 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:22,519 Speaker 2: so you're gonna die, yeah, but not for a really 49 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:24,679 Speaker 2: long time. Wait a minute, so I'm gonna die, yeah, 50 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 2: but not for a really long time. And you're sitting 51 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 2: there as a child, having a process. So you knew this. 52 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 2: You had me, which technically makes you my killer, because 53 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 2: you you know, it's like this weird thing. So all 54 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 2: kids know that, like death could happen, and depending on 55 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 2: how sensitive you are as a kid, you might become 56 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 2: fixated on it, which is you know what happens to 57 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 2: some of us who go into the field. 58 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's fascinating. I was walking down through some 59 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 3: bushland then south of the river the other day and 60 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 3: I said to Laurie, there's no way that I would 61 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 3: let you walk, and she wouldn't do it anyhore, walk 62 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 3: through this bushland next to this like with that maybe 63 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 3: at any stage to die, And that's in itself, isn't 64 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 3: it right? 65 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 2: That's right? That's right, and so it is just a 66 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 2: it's just a fact. And so but it's at least 67 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 2: I think it's nice that people are men are starting 68 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 2: to understand because you really don't know what it is 69 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 2: like to have to always be looking over your shoulders 70 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: at both times. The only people in the US certainly 71 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 2: who actually have a similar sense of paranoia because it 72 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 2: are black males. And what we have certain tests that, like, 73 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 2: we have a very famous personality test that we have 74 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 2: to actually score black men five points lower on the 75 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 2: paranoia scale because of just the history of this country 76 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: and the way cops still treat black men. And so 77 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: it's just but it really goes to show that it's 78 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 2: it's a real feeling. And so I always you know, say, well, 79 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 2: black men are the closest to understanding women when it 80 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 2: comes to having to like look around, like am I 81 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 2: going to be killed because of the way I look? 82 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: Now, this show is about serial killers, Well, I think 83 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: it's safe to say it is a lot harder to 84 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: be serial killer in this day and age, with the 85 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: you know, the technology. 86 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 3: That police have. 87 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: So do you think there are less people less serial 88 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: killers out there just because they get caught early? They 89 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: are sort of there a one off murderer, whereas they 90 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: could have been a serial killer. 91 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think, well, the golden era of 92 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 2: serial killing was seventies. The peak was nineteen eighty one, 93 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 2: and after that we saw a pretty significant drop. DNA 94 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 2: stuff started coming out in the later eighties nineteen eighties, 95 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 2: and so that's when certain serial killers just stopped because they, 96 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 2: like I think Dennis Raider BTK was one who you know, 97 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 2: suddenly became aware, like a lot of them were like, oh, 98 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 2: you know, this is so that's part of it. Now. 99 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: I think that there are a lot of things that 100 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 2: happened that that would explain the big decrease. I think 101 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 2: the Internet is a big part as well, because you know, 102 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 2: take somebody like Jeffrey Dahmer. This is a guy who 103 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 2: was isolated in Bath Ohio. He was dealing with the 104 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 2: fact that he was gay in the nineteen seventies in 105 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 2: Bath Ohio, which is not the friendliest place at that 106 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 2: you know time to be gay. If he had the 107 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 2: Internet and his fingertips and he had, you know, fetishes 108 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 2: of just being with the man who is basically a 109 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 2: sub in an unconscious position, he would have been able 110 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 2: to find a group of people that would have been 111 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 2: able to, you know, allow him to indulge in his fantasy, 112 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 2: and he felt so alone. So arguably, if Jeffrey Dahmer 113 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 2: was alive today, he probably wouldn't be a serial killer. 114 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,559 Speaker 2: I know that's wild to say, but I really because 115 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 2: he had a lot of different things. I get really 116 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 2: deep into Jeffrey Dahmer during the show. So there's that element, 117 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 2: But there are other elements too. It is harder to 118 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 2: to your question. It's harder because obviously surveillance we you know, 119 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 2: DNA testing and you know cell phone data and so, 120 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 2: but there are I mean Israel Keys is I don't 121 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 2: know if you've heard of Israel Keys, but he's one 122 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 2: that we call the most meticulous because he really was 123 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 2: smart about it. And I kind of I always have 124 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 2: a difficult time explaining, uh because I don't want to 125 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 2: give anyone, you know, yips to me. You know, I don't. 126 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 2: That's where it gets tricky. But it's like, yeah, Israel Keys, 127 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 2: if you can get away, he has, he has. He 128 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 2: had the right Unfortunately, he had the right system that 129 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 2: if you were really wanting to get away with it, 130 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 2: he had, you know, a lot of patience. 131 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 3: They're not usually stupid. 132 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: They unfortunately, they're usually quite smarted. Yeah, have you ever 133 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:33,919 Speaker 1: because people get the opportunity to ask questions at your 134 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: shows if you've been disturbed by something that someone has 135 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: a yeah. 136 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Well, I just want to comment on the 137 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 2: fact that a lot of people believe that serial killers 138 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 2: are these evil geniuses. But in actuality, the average serial 139 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 2: killer IQ is around ninety ninety one, you know, so 140 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 2: it's not that high. So we've got the ones like 141 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 2: Ted Bundy, like Jeffrey dahmerd those are high IQs. But yeah, 142 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 2: for the most part, they're they're not. They just a 143 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 2: lot of them go after sex workers and the sex 144 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 2: workers turns less dead, So people don't really care. They 145 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 2: don't tend to make the news. Women of color, things 146 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 2: like that, they just unfortunately don't make the news. But yeah, 147 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 2: I do get a lot of interesting questions sometimes, Like 148 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 2: I got one question once where someone was like, why 149 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 2: haven't I gotten caught yet? Oh, because they they send 150 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 2: them in. They don't, you don't they don't have a 151 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 2: microphone where they asked actually, like they said, they can 152 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 2: send them in anonymously, and so things like that, and uh, 153 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 2: and and you know, so sometimes like are you kind 154 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 2: of are you joking or you know and you don't 155 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 2: know and so and so. One of the questions is 156 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 2: what are the chances that a serial killer might be 157 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 2: in the audience tonight, And I point out the fact 158 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 2: that if there was a serial killer in the area, 159 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,239 Speaker 2: I'd say that if they were to go to a show, 160 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 2: this would probably be the one to go to, because 161 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 2: I believe it or not, serial killers themselves have no 162 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 2: idea why they kill. They just know they had the urge. 163 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 2: But they're just as curious as we are about why 164 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 2: they do it. 165 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: Right, Well, doctor Tooles, I could definitely talk to you. Yeah, 166 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: you have to wait until May twenty nine, but you 167 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: are at the ASTA on May twenty nine, the Psychology 168 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: of serial Killers. Tickets are available through ticke Tech. Thank 169 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us this morning. 170 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 2: Thanks thank you so much for having me and I 171 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 2: look forward to seeing you all in Perth. 172 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: Thank you