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Speaker 1: Jum Mission with Jones and Amanda.

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Speaker 2: I was on Mamma Mia out Loud, one of the

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Speaker 2: podcasts that started through Mamma Mia.

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Speaker 1: Which loved it well.

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Speaker 2: One of the things we spoke about, and this was

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Speaker 2: a few days ago, was Grace Tame and the idea

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Speaker 2: of how hard it must be, because it'd been an

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Speaker 2: article by Rosie Batty and The Herald, how hard it

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Speaker 2: is to be known or famous for your trauma. And

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Speaker 2: Rosie Batty said she's a very different person to Grace Tame,

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Speaker 2: and Rosie said she was able to temper how she felt.

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Speaker 2: Rosie was also Australian of the Year, an advocate for

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Speaker 2: mental health protection after her son was killed by his dad,

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Speaker 2: and she said that Grace, many parts of Grace are

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Speaker 2: still very raw. And that's what we were discussing, is

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Speaker 2: for Grace Tame to relive her trauma every time she's interviewed,

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Speaker 2: every time she speaks about it, how hard it must

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Speaker 2: be as a survivor of sexual abuse when she was

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Speaker 2: a teenager, because she was fifteen, she was rued by

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Speaker 2: a teacher. So Grace has a very different kind of

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Speaker 2: Australian of the Year to the kind we've seen before.

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Speaker 2: And she has used her platform so powerfully. She has

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Speaker 2: had frustrations with the government and she's not been shy

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Speaker 2: to say so. She's felt that they are too slow

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Speaker 2: in taking up initiatives. Britney Higgins came forward because she

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Speaker 2: saw Grace Tame speaking out. In fact, it's very interesting

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Speaker 2: statistically where in my notes here I think that was

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Speaker 2: a thirty year high and people asking for help from

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Speaker 2: people who have been sexually abused. So she's helped so

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Speaker 2: many people. But she feels the government has been very

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Speaker 2: slow to act and is very clumsy in its approach

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Speaker 2: to how they're trying to put together their protocols. There

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Speaker 2: was only a two week consultation period, which everyone said

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Speaker 2: is ridiculously.

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Speaker 1: And on this government's being clumsy about something that's.

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Speaker 2: Strange about anything to do with women.

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Speaker 1: What a shock.

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Speaker 2: So yesterday, at the end of her tenure, there she

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Speaker 2: is last day is Australian of the Year and she

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Speaker 2: has to have well, she doesn't has to have to,

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Speaker 2: but the protocol is there's a photo opportunity with Scott Morris.

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Speaker 3: And there's a bit of a handover, isn't there for

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Speaker 3: your handover the old Australian of the Year meets the

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Speaker 3: new Australian.

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Speaker 1: Of the Year.

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Speaker 2: I think so, but not necessarily in the same ceremony.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. But what I do know is people

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Speaker 2: went crazy when they saw the body of language at

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Speaker 2: that photo opportunity. As we know, Scott Morrison loves a

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Speaker 2: photo opportunity and tries to spin it his way anytime

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Speaker 2: it can. Grace acted as she has towards him this

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Speaker 2: entire time. And also I wasn't aware this isn't a

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Speaker 2: political position, This hasn't been given to her by Scott Morrison.

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Speaker 2: This is each state nominates people and then there's a

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Speaker 2: voting committee outside the political process. But this is part

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Speaker 2: of the process, is that she goes to see Scott Morrison.

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Speaker 2: So you've probably seen the imagery. She looks incredibly awkward,

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Speaker 2: She doesn't want to shake. She shakes his hand but

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Speaker 2: doesn't look happy doing it, and a lot of people

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Speaker 2: have felt annoyed about her in honesty. For me, when

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Speaker 2: I first saw the image, I thought, oh, it just

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Speaker 2: made me so uncomfortable because where.

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Speaker 1: Of that era where you respect the government, you respect

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Speaker 1: all that.

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Speaker 2: Sort of but not only that where women and I

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Speaker 2: could and I saw my own prejudices in this where

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Speaker 2: we're taught to smile and make things better. And I

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Speaker 2: looked at parts in my career and places I've worked,

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Speaker 2: and a whole lot of scenarios where you smile so

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Speaker 2: it's not uncomfortable and you make everything all right. And

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Speaker 2: so when I first saw it, I thought, oh, Grace,

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Speaker 2: this is so awkward. But then after reading what other

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Speaker 2: people have said and thinking about it more on my

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Speaker 2: own response, I think she was so true to herself.

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Speaker 2: She really was, And some of the response I've really

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Speaker 2: been interested to see because this is all about the

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Speaker 2: politics of civility. Make yourself small, and that's what her

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Speaker 2: that's what she's fighting. Why am I being silenced again?

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Speaker 2: Why am I placating again? She went out the same

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Speaker 2: way that she's owned this whole year.

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Speaker 1: I want to have been a double edged sword, imagined.

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Speaker 3: She was beaming and smiling next to Scott Morrison, all

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Speaker 3: those people that she's been advocating for. So han On Min,

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Speaker 3: this is the guy that you're saying has been sitting

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Speaker 3: on his hands with this whole thing.

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Speaker 1: That's right. My only thing.

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Speaker 3: About it was some of the fellas yesterday when I

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Speaker 3: was out, they said and what's her problem? And then

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Speaker 3: I explained what it was, and then they in the

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Speaker 3: discussion went oh yeah, okay, fair enough.

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Speaker 1: So in a way, she's made herself. She puts herself

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Speaker 1: on the line to get a bit wider conversation about.

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Speaker 2: This, and that's absolutely what I.

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Speaker 1: Thought to myself, Well, yeah, she did the right thing.

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Speaker 2: She's been so true to herself, and all that who

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Speaker 2: Hi yesterday with the photograph has taken away from the

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Speaker 2: true story I've been reading this. We should be more

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Speaker 2: angry about. The leading preventable cause of death, disability and

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Speaker 2: injury in women aged eighteen to forty five in Australia

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Speaker 2: is male violence. And yet here we are worried that

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Speaker 2: a woman's not smiling next to the Prime Minister. And

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Speaker 2: so you know, we've got also an example of the

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Speaker 2: man who headed up the Royal Commission into Banking industry.

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Speaker 2: He deliberately didn't smile in a photo next to the

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Speaker 2: Treasurer Josh Freidenberg.

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Speaker 1: He refused to. No one said a word.

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Speaker 2: This is very much a female issue, is smile and

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Speaker 2: make nice, and she refused to. And it's so powerful.

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Speaker 2: I just find it so fascinating how we're responding to

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Speaker 2: this Jonesy and Amanda's nation