Speaker 1: She's on the Money.
Speaker 2: She's on the Money.
Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to She's on the Money. The smartest
Speaker 3: podcast in the country, according to the Australian Podcast Awards
Speaker 3: Wiki d we took kind of goal on the wekend goal.
Speaker 2: Yes, incredible. I cannot believe it and I did have
Speaker 2: a little bit of a teary when we were announced TOARS.
Speaker 2: It was a deep movement, I believe.
Speaker 3: But it's not the award we thought we would win.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie. I'm pretty transparent. I did think
Speaker 2: we had a better chance in business, given we are
Speaker 2: like the number one podcasting business, not to brag in
Speaker 2: terms of listenership, obviously not in terms of business quality
Speaker 2: if you are ask the Podcasting Awards, but the smartest
Speaker 2: I think that's an epic compliment.
Speaker 3: We'll take that.
Speaker 2: I will take that and I'm going to run with it,
Speaker 2: and I'm probably gonna mention it to everybody meet like
Speaker 2: when they're like, oh, what do you do as a job.
Speaker 2: I'm no longer going to say I'm a financial advisor.
Speaker 2: I'm going to say I'm the smartest podcaster in the country.
Speaker 2: Because I'm just going to stretch the award to be
Speaker 2: me individually.
Speaker 3: That's what I've said as well. I'm like, hey, mum,
Speaker 3: you've given birth to the smartest person in Australia.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like, I'm just going to really take this and run
Speaker 2: with it because I feel like if they give us
Speaker 2: an inch, I am going to take the mile.
Speaker 3: And why there is kind of a bit of a
Speaker 3: funny twist here because where are we currently recording from.
Speaker 2: We are currently Georgia Kings sitting on the floor in
Speaker 2: my home office. You have a beanie over a microphone
Speaker 2: that is not your regular microphone. You've got a good
Speaker 2: glass of red in your hand. Because tonight, I, because
Speaker 2: I'm the smartest podcaster in Australia, locked myself out of
Speaker 2: our podcast studio right before we're going to record.
Speaker 3: You did, But I mean that didn't dampen our spirits.
Speaker 2: We're not.
Speaker 3: We're ready.
Speaker 2: It feels we're innovaty.
Speaker 3: Well, that's it.
Speaker 2: So if you guys would like to see a photo
Speaker 2: of how George is recording the podcast, please head to
Speaker 2: our stories because I'm going to post it as soon
Speaker 2: as this pod drop.
Speaker 3: Now we'll get into this show now, guys. For anyone
Speaker 3: who doesn't know, my name is Georgia King. I'm a
Speaker 3: copywriter and journalism student. I'm also the smartest person in
Speaker 3: Australia and every Wednesday I dive deep into a financial
Speaker 3: conversation with Melbourne based Money with Victoria Define.
Speaker 2: Hello Georgia King, Hello smart person. Hello.
Speaker 3: Now Today on the show, we're tackling one of our
Speaker 3: favorite topics, by now Pay Later. But what we'll be
Speaker 3: doing in this episode is taking a little deep dive
Speaker 3: into why they aren't currently being regulated in the same
Speaker 3: way credit companies are. A recent ABC article revealed that
Speaker 3: a staggering one in five people using buy now, Pay
Speaker 3: later schemes mispayments and are racking up serious amounts of debt.
Speaker 3: Yet despite this, and despite serious concerns from consumer advocates,
Speaker 3: very little is being done to regulate this industry, leaving
Speaker 3: vulnerable people even more exposed to being taken advantage of.
Speaker 3: We are going to be getting into the nitty gritty
Speaker 3: of this topic and chatting through the state of where
Speaker 3: things are out when it comes to buying our pay
Speaker 3: later and what our listeners really do need to be
Speaker 3: mindful of. But before we get there, and before our
Speaker 3: money wins and confessions, I wanted to bring up a
Speaker 3: little bit of correspondence that we had from a few
Speaker 3: days back from a listener. People who listened to the
Speaker 3: show week on week will know that the last week
Speaker 3: Victoria's money win was buying children's shoes. It wasn't your
Speaker 3: money when it was.
Speaker 2: No, it was one of our community members' money wins.
Speaker 2: And they said that they had bought children's shoes instead
Speaker 2: of adults shoes and saved a bomb.
Speaker 3: And we were like, what a win. Everyone should do it.
Speaker 3: Forget adults shoes, they're are rought buy kids shoes. Anyway,
Speaker 3: Maddie got in touch.
Speaker 1: I'm a podiatrist in Queensland. I just listened to the
Speaker 1: podcast and you wanted some clarification on the shoes.
Speaker 3: Well, I just thought i'd touch base.
Speaker 1: And just say it's not about the quality of shoes
Speaker 1: with kids shoes versus adult shoes, it's more so about
Speaker 1: the amount of material in there. Kids shoes are designed
Speaker 1: for kids a day weigh fifteen, twenty thirty, maybe forty
Speaker 1: kilograms versu an adult who can weigh fifty all the
Speaker 1: way up to one hundred. The materials can't handle the
Speaker 1: weight of an adult, so therefore they can't support the
Speaker 1: foot as well. So yeah, that's the difference. Love your podcast,
Speaker 1: thanks so much.
Speaker 3: So there you have it. Guys, we were wrong, but
Speaker 3: a big thank you to Maddie for sending through that memo.
Speaker 3: If anyone else wants to send through memos, we love
Speaker 3: hearing your voices was a bit of fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, please send memos, jokes, corrections, Yeah, memories for being
Speaker 2: the smartest podcast in Australia. Literally everything is welcome. But
Speaker 2: I'm also just going to say that is not deterring
Speaker 2: me from buying children's shoes because the money win is
Speaker 2: always going to be trump actual you know, safety information
Speaker 2: for me. I get it. Money wins, confessions. Let's move along, Georgia.
Speaker 2: I have a money win that I have been telling
Speaker 2: everybody this week about. I also do the entire lead
Speaker 2: up to the story. I tell them how much else
Speaker 2: going to pay? And then I tell them how much
Speaker 2: actually we got it for. And I hope that there
Speaker 2: is shocked and excited as me. So now it is
Speaker 2: your turn to hear this story. Are you ready lay
Speaker 2: it on me?
Speaker 4: Cool?
Speaker 2: So, as you all know, I also have a financial
Speaker 2: services business, Zella, and in July we moved offices, which
Speaker 2: jokes on us was absolutely fruitless because we weren't allowed
Speaker 2: to even go into the offices. Aside from that, is
Speaker 2: now November, late November, and we are now allowed to
Speaker 2: be back in our offices. So I have been looking
Speaker 2: for a minimum of six chests of draws, you know,
Speaker 2: those ones that go under your desk, the domain of
Speaker 2: I'm assuming like really thin steel, have a lock on it,
Speaker 2: a little bit like a filing cabinet.
Speaker 3: Just classic office, classic office.
Speaker 2: Really chic furniture. So I've been looking for those for
Speaker 2: ages and I went online thinking i'd get a good deal.
Speaker 2: They range between two hundred and fifty and three hundred
Speaker 2: dollars per unit, which to me is an absolute raught
Speaker 2: and absolutely not within budget because eighteen hundred dollars on
Speaker 2: chest of draws just feels.
Speaker 3: Like it's lackluster. It's anti climactic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's for the office, and I just feel
Speaker 2: like when you have an office, you don't realize how
Speaker 2: quickly expenses add up and printing ads up and the
Speaker 2: amount of highlighteds I go through. It's actually insane. Anyway,
Speaker 2: So one thing led to another. I tried to find
Speaker 2: a discounted version online and I decided to take a
Speaker 2: leaf out of my own book and check Facebook marketplace
Speaker 2: and do you know what I found there? What do
Speaker 2: you find office straws for thirty dollars per set of
Speaker 2: office straws? You didn't, Yes, I did, And they are
Speaker 2: perfect and they are in as new condition, and they
Speaker 2: have two keys per office straw, which to me is
Speaker 2: just going above and beyond, like who keeps the spare key?
Speaker 3: That's a lot. I feel like they are fresh as well.
Speaker 3: I was just in the office when we were meant
Speaker 3: to record properly.
Speaker 2: And they are honestly, they look brand new. And my friends,
Speaker 2: I got six sets of draws delivered to my office
Speaker 2: by two lovely men for two hundred dollars.
Speaker 3: So how much is that?
Speaker 2: In totally I think it was like ridiculous amounts of money.
Speaker 2: I can't do quick maths.
Speaker 3: One hundred.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's actually sixteen hundred. I just didn't want to
Speaker 2: be put on the spot. But I've saved sixteen hundred
Speaker 2: dollars this week and I could not be more excited.
Speaker 3: That is that is a huge win.
Speaker 2: Check the Instagram stories for the pictures of the drawers,
Speaker 2: which are really lackluster, but I'm excited. So given we
Speaker 2: are all friends here. You should pretend to be excited
Speaker 2: for me. Sure, Georgia, have you got something to compete
Speaker 2: with that?
Speaker 3: It's not as good?
Speaker 2: Okay? Well, moving on?
Speaker 3: As I said last week, recently moved out and by
Speaker 3: the boys, exactly right. What's essential when you move out?
Speaker 3: Wineglasses are essential? But didn't have any. Was going to
Speaker 3: go to kmart, but didn't go to kmart, went to
Speaker 3: the op shop. What did I find? Six glasses? Really cute,
Speaker 3: really quirky, vintage twelve dollars.
Speaker 2: Oh, money win.
Speaker 3: Big fan of op shopping, always have been. And you
Speaker 3: know it's short, it's sharp. That's my money win of
Speaker 3: the week. Guys.
Speaker 2: Thank you Georgia King. I really relate to that, do
Speaker 2: you No.
Speaker 3: Let's move right along to our Facebook group victoria favorite
Speaker 3: post from the week. What was yours?
Speaker 2: Okay, So, given I get so much feedback about being
Speaker 2: mean to you, I am actually going to apologize.
Speaker 3: I think I get it too.
Speaker 2: I'm really sorry that I was mean.
Speaker 3: To you and she apparently mean to me.
Speaker 2: But yeah, we are actually like very close to being
Speaker 2: best friends.
Speaker 3: Because that strange relationship.
Speaker 2: I will adopt you as my smaller sister, as I
Speaker 2: would with everybody in our community. Actually, but given we
Speaker 2: are speaking about community, epic segway from me, I have
Speaker 2: a money win from our friend Melissa, and I actually
Speaker 2: loved this because it was quite tenacious. In addition to
Speaker 2: being an incredible money win, she said she bought her
Speaker 2: first house if by a letter dropped today. She'd been
Speaker 2: actively looking since May this year, which in home loan
Speaker 2: life is actually a really long time because that takes forever,
Speaker 2: but it also feels really disheartening. But she said she
Speaker 2: lost a whole heap of homes and I won't read
Speaker 2: it out because she wrote a very long money win,
Speaker 2: which I obviously read and a lot of people in
Speaker 2: our can comunity read this week. But she said that
Speaker 2: she had dropped a minimum of twenty letters and she
Speaker 2: only got one callback, and it was the house that
Speaker 2: she was actually buying. So she had put a letter
Speaker 2: in somebody's letterbox making an offer, bought a house. She
Speaker 2: saved thirty grand in real estate fees by skipping the middleman,
Speaker 2: and it's in her favorite suburb. It is her perfect
Speaker 2: house in a perfect location. It is one street from
Speaker 2: her sister, two streets from the school and the shops
Speaker 2: and it's in between both of their parents. She said,
Speaker 2: there's so much room for growth and she did it
Speaker 2: all on her own. And I actually love that because
Speaker 2: she got the perfect dream house for her that might
Speaker 2: not have actually been marketed in the first place.
Speaker 3: Well that's it. You never know if you don't ask,
Speaker 3: so hey, pop letters and people's letterboxes.
Speaker 2: Honestly, guys, the worst someone can say is no, and
Speaker 2: no doesn't mean bad. It just means no. They're not
Speaker 2: interested in your offer, they aren't offended by it. So
Speaker 2: I really love that. There was a very cute picture
Speaker 2: of her and I'm assuming her partner popping some champagne.
Speaker 2: I would love to know what your money win from
Speaker 2: the community is this week, because I feel like this
Speaker 2: week had some epic money wins in it.
Speaker 3: This week was amazing, Vie, but it is always amazing.
Speaker 3: My little money win is from Tenaya, who has a
Speaker 3: major money win.
Speaker 2: Not our graphics designer, graphic.
Speaker 3: Designer, the gorgeous also Tenaya. It's a different Tenaya, and
Speaker 3: she's looking gorgeous in the photo that she's added here.
Speaker 3: So she's always wanted a mirror with the lights kind
Speaker 3: of framing it. But she didn't say exactly right. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: but she didn't have the money, and she's not really
Speaker 3: a makeup wearer, which I can relate to. I don't
Speaker 3: really wear it either.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie. Why do you want the makeup mirror?
Speaker 1: Then?
Speaker 2: Okay, this is just me.
Speaker 3: Maybe she just likes the look of it.
Speaker 2: You know, they are really good vibe. Yeah, I'm here
Speaker 2: for it.
Speaker 3: So she found this mirror on her local buyer, sell
Speaker 3: and swap page, which I'm assuming is a Facebook thing
Speaker 3: for twenty dollary dues.
Speaker 2: That is very good. I feel like twenty bucks is
Speaker 2: like a purchase that you think about quickly but also
Speaker 2: don't feel too much, but at the same time you
Speaker 2: still do have to think is it worth twenty bars?
Speaker 3: Exactly right? Okay, so the reason it was so cheap
Speaker 3: was because there were a few dud light globes in there.
Speaker 3: But she messaged her partner asked if he could take
Speaker 3: a little look because he's an HBAC technician, which comes
Speaker 3: with your handy. Yeah right, so he's like an licensed electrician.
Speaker 3: I guess is what that means. And here we are.
Speaker 3: She's got the beautiful frame in the photo. It fits perfectly,
Speaker 3: and she saved herself four hundred and ninety dollars.
Speaker 2: That's an epic money win.
Speaker 3: It's a huge money win, especially when you it's something
Speaker 3: you really want and you know looks.
Speaker 2: Good, especially when it's so cheap. I feel like I
Speaker 2: love she's on the money for the community where we
Speaker 2: share all of our money wins and confessions. But it's
Speaker 2: also like, if you're at a point where you want
Speaker 2: to share it with the community, you've probably been telling
Speaker 2: everybody about it as well, just like my drawers, Like
Speaker 2: I've been telling everybody, And I was so close to
Speaker 2: posting it in the Facebook group, and I'm probably still
Speaker 2: going to post it in the Facebook group. I just
Speaker 2: wanted to tear it first on the pod.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I was just thinking with that mirror. We
Speaker 3: actually have one those in the pod studio, don't we.
Speaker 2: We actually do the pod studio that this week we
Speaker 2: locked ourselves out of. Thanks for reminding us.
Speaker 3: Let's move on to today's main topic, NAVI. One of
Speaker 3: the most common celebrations we have in our community is
Speaker 3: when people shut down their after pay or zip pay accounts.
Speaker 2: Yes, I love that for them. I'd also really like
Speaker 2: it on record that I've never told anybody in the
Speaker 2: history of ever to shut their after pay or their
Speaker 2: zip pay accounts. I think you guys have just like
Speaker 2: kind of read between the lines and decided it wasn't
Speaker 2: a good idea for you, and just you even saying it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I literally haven't, and I just really felt like it's
Speaker 2: not necessary for that to be on the record. But
Speaker 2: I never gave that advice. I never said go and
Speaker 2: shut your after pay accounts. But I did say was
Speaker 2: maybe reconsider it if it's not something that actually helps you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I'm really glad that you guys are making decisions
Speaker 2: that work for you. I don't know, it's not obviously
Speaker 2: essential for me to disclaimer it, but at the end
Speaker 2: of the day, like, I really love that you guys
Speaker 2: are so passionate about shutting it down because the research
Speaker 2: that I'm sure you're about to read out order because
Speaker 2: you always come prepared and I just kind of free
Speaker 2: range zip Pay. Did you know that they made sixty
Speaker 2: percent of their revenue from consumers, almost all being account fees.
Speaker 3: What does that as in people that haven't paid on time?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, well, account fees for having zip pay, because
Speaker 2: they've got fees for having for pay accountants. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: on top of that, you know, they're a product that
Speaker 2: charges the retailer, so you would think that maybe they'd
Speaker 2: make their money from the retailer, when they don't. They
Speaker 2: make it from you guys.
Speaker 3: They double it. Do they make anything from the retailer?
Speaker 2: Do you know after pay has a percentage that they
Speaker 2: charged the retailer, which is all hush hush. It's very
Speaker 2: hard to find unless you are an after pay merchant,
Speaker 2: in which case you can actually find that information. But
Speaker 2: it's not easily available, which is crazy. And I just yeah, anyway,
Speaker 2: I will let you get on with it before I
Speaker 2: still or your statistics.
Speaker 3: Find that interesting because I guess the retailers would have
Speaker 3: the benefit of people who may not have already been
Speaker 3: buying their products buying them because now they can use
Speaker 3: after pay.
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely, and that's kind of like the draw card
Speaker 2: of after pay for a retailer.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: So, say I have a small business and I sell candles.
Speaker 2: The reason I would get after pay is because people
Speaker 2: are more likely to purchase from me and purchase a candle.
Speaker 2: And the reason it's beneficial to me as a small
Speaker 2: business is because cash flow is king, right, Like that
Speaker 2: is the same for you and I like, at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, the best outcome is having the
Speaker 2: maximum amount of money that we can possibly earn going
Speaker 2: into our bank account with not that many fees, I ate,
Speaker 2: not that many things in our budget that we have
Speaker 2: to you know, outlay. So the draw card with after
Speaker 2: pay is you pay them a nominal amount, which is
Speaker 2: usually a percentage of your candle. So say you pay
Speaker 2: thirty bucks and you're paying after pay four dollars. It
Speaker 2: means you get paid immediately. So the retailer or my
Speaker 2: candle business gets that full thirty dollars at the beginning,
Speaker 2: and then after pay they chase the debt for that client.
Speaker 2: So it's putting the risk on them, and you pay
Speaker 2: for that privilege, which is great because you have cash
Speaker 2: flow for your business. But then as a consumer, if
Speaker 2: you then over commit, the risk is enough to pay,
Speaker 2: which is why they have late fees and stuff like that,
Speaker 2: because they need to manage their risk.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, we will get into that because I'm no, no, no,
Speaker 3: that was good. And so it sounds like the retailer
Speaker 3: wins after pay wins slash by now pay later schemes win,
Speaker 3: but the consumer doesn't. Necessarily win anyway, we will get
Speaker 3: back to that. Staggeringly, the number of buy now Pay
Speaker 3: Later transactions increased from sixteen point eight million in the
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen to twenty eighteen financial year to thirty two
Speaker 3: million the following year, which is an increase of ninety percent.
Speaker 3: It's basically double. So these companies are moving from strength
Speaker 3: to strength. And the kicker is that they don't have
Speaker 3: to operate within the same regulations that credit card companies
Speaker 3: adhere to, which means they have no legal obligation to
Speaker 3: make sure that people using their services can actually afford
Speaker 3: to use those services. Victoria, you always say that nor
Speaker 3: one plans to go into debt, and you also did
Speaker 3: a whole show in season one after pay but I
Speaker 3: was hoping as a little recap to start us off,
Speaker 3: you could talk us through what the deal is with
Speaker 3: buy now, Pay later providers, including how they work and
Speaker 3: what your take is on them.
Speaker 2: So most of you guys are going to be across
Speaker 2: by now pay later schemes because we talk about them
Speaker 2: all the time. But for any of you who don't
Speaker 2: know what they are, just want some more clarification, don't
Speaker 2: quite get it because they are quite complex when you
Speaker 2: start looking under the hood. A buy now, pay later
Speaker 2: scheme generally allows you to have your purchase now and
Speaker 2: pay for incrementally over a set period of time. It's
Speaker 2: quite helpful in this way because instead of forking out
Speaker 2: two hundred bucks for something in one go, you only
Speaker 2: have to put up with fifty dollars and then you
Speaker 2: can pay for the rest off over time. Now, Georgia,
Speaker 2: I was actually talking to you before this episode about
Speaker 2: how this isn't actually a new concept, so it might
Speaker 2: feel quite new because after pay is relatively new to
Speaker 2: the market. But I would like to just refresh your
Speaker 2: memories on our friend Jerry Harvey, who haven't own Harvey Norman,
Speaker 2: And I bet my dollar that you guys remember your
Speaker 2: parents or someone that you know purchasing a furniture package
Speaker 2: or a fridge, or a brand new TV or a
Speaker 2: kitchen age on his twenty four month interest free payment
Speaker 2: scheme where you got to take home that day and
Speaker 2: then pay it off, and he charged you an exorbitant
Speaker 2: amount of interest if you one didn't meet the payments
Speaker 2: or two went over the amount of time that the
Speaker 2: loan was four. Now, that was established by a company
Speaker 2: called Latitude Financial Services, which you guys would probably see
Speaker 2: a lot about in the media at the moment because
Speaker 2: they have become quite large. But I just really wanted
Speaker 2: to bring that up because I was also having a
Speaker 2: chat with my really good friend David, who I will
Speaker 2: probably tell you about in a couple of episodes because
Speaker 2: he's business He's going to partner with us soon and
Speaker 2: I'm incredibly excited. But we're having this chat and it
Speaker 2: just really annoyed me that everybody thinks that it's so
Speaker 2: brand new, but there have been people out there taking
Speaker 2: advantage of us for longer than we actually comprehended. So
Speaker 2: regardless of all of this, the appeal is to make
Speaker 2: it incredibly dangerous, and it can become quite addictive to
Speaker 2: buy things. So it leaves us in a position where
Speaker 2: we are paying for things that we either can't afford
Speaker 2: to pay back or we're not able to pay back
Speaker 2: over the longer term. Because during that period of time,
Speaker 2: while we might think, oh, yeah, I'll have fifty dollars
Speaker 2: next month to make that payment, we don't think about
Speaker 2: that payment again and pre commit that money to something else,
Speaker 2: whether that is going out for drinks with our friends
Speaker 2: or buying another outfit, or buying a TV from Harvey Norman,
Speaker 2: we find ourselves in a position where often paying it
Speaker 2: back is actually harder than we first anticipate it. That,
Speaker 2: of course lands us in a seat of late fees
Speaker 2: and fun fact, actually they're not all fun. After Pay
Speaker 2: charge their customers a total of forty six million dollars
Speaker 2: in late fees in twenty nineteen, which gives you some
Speaker 2: indication of how problematic these providers are for so many people.
Speaker 2: This is also the reason why I think that there
Speaker 2: should be regulation around these things, and we're going to
Speaker 2: get into that quite surely. In terms of what my
Speaker 2: personal take is, I think genuinely that if you are
Speaker 2: using these services, probably they can probably work really well
Speaker 2: for people. I think for a majority of people, especially
Speaker 2: in our community. Now, I feel like I really know
Speaker 2: you guys, it's probably smarter to save your money first,
Speaker 2: work it into your budget, and then make that purchase.
Speaker 2: But in saying that, I know there are going to
Speaker 2: be some people listening to this episode that go Victoria,
Speaker 2: I've been using after pay for ages and it's a
Speaker 2: really great tool for my cash flow in that case,
Speaker 2: fantastic for you, but it is really still important to
Speaker 2: be aware of the traps that these schemes can actually
Speaker 2: lead us down.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they do tend to lead the majority down
Speaker 3: those paths. As we will get to Victoria. You did
Speaker 3: just say it, but you do think that by now
Speaker 3: pay later schemes should be regulated.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 2: Credit cards have to do work around mandated responsible lending criteria.
Speaker 2: They can't just actually approve anyone for a credit card.
Speaker 2: Historically they could, though they're no longer allowed to do
Speaker 2: that though. ASEK, which is the Australian Securities Investment Commission,
Speaker 2: licenses and regulates banks, credit unions and brokers to make
Speaker 2: sure they don't allow you to access credit if you
Speaker 2: actually can't afford to pay it back. And this is
Speaker 2: a really important piece because at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: if you're not mandated, like where are the rules, it
Speaker 2: kind of becomes the wild West. And I just don't
Speaker 2: think that that's fair on people because I'm assuming that
Speaker 2: for most people who sign up to after pay, they
Speaker 2: just assume that these companies, and I keep saying after pay,
Speaker 2: it's because it's the biggest one. There's after pay, this pay,
Speaker 2: there's open pay, there's so many different types of pay.
Speaker 2: There's a new one called Klana. Like there are so many,
Speaker 2: they have different branding. They all say that they're putting
Speaker 2: us first, but none of them, Georgia, are putting us
Speaker 2: in a position where we are having our credit scores checked,
Speaker 2: where we are being referenced and making sure that we
Speaker 2: can pay it back. For some of us, we genuinely
Speaker 2: don't have the financial literacy to be in a position
Speaker 2: where we say this isn't the right prodit such for us.
Speaker 2: We assume that because we are in Australia and the
Speaker 2: most Australian thing in the entire world is to have
Speaker 2: each other's back, right, we just assume that everyone will
Speaker 2: And that's sadly not the case. So although by now
Speaker 2: pay later schemes are wrapped up a little bit differently,
Speaker 2: they really are just another form of credit and a
Speaker 2: very very easy way of sliding into completely unplanned debt
Speaker 2: the moment, these guys can literally do whatever they want.
Speaker 2: As I called them before, it's the wild West, which
Speaker 2: in my opinion is pretty unfair. And as I said before,
Speaker 2: not everyone has a good enough financial education to understand
Speaker 2: whether this is helping them or hindering them.
Speaker 3: Well, that's the thing like, with the way they market themselves,
Speaker 3: You're not silly for thinking that they are helping you
Speaker 3: out because that's what they want you to think.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and it's really sad. But a Center inquiry in
Speaker 2: early September this year surmise that by now pay later
Speaker 2: platforms can self regulate and don't need to be mandated
Speaker 2: to do so. So lots of consumer groups are arguing
Speaker 2: justified in being worried about this, And I'm worried about this,
Speaker 2: and I definitely think it's a really big issue for Australians,
Speaker 2: particularly the younger generation, particularly the younger generations of Australians
Speaker 2: who are actually responsible for sixty one percent of all
Speaker 2: buy now, pay later transactions, and they're also the ones
Speaker 2: who are missing the most payments and racking up those
Speaker 2: late fees.
Speaker 3: And what is a young person? What is class as
Speaker 3: a young person?
Speaker 2: It is someone under the edge of thirty five. But
Speaker 2: I didn't really want to say that because if you're
Speaker 2: listening to this and you are older than thirty five,
Speaker 2: like you're still young and heart my friends.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Now there is like a little bit of light
Speaker 3: at the end of the bud, is there? Tunnel world?
Speaker 3: Sort So ASEX said in this report that the previously
Speaker 3: announced regulatory changes will come into effect in October of
Speaker 3: next year. Can you talk us through what will likely
Speaker 3: be happening.
Speaker 2: So, yes, a few changes are going to go ahead,
Speaker 2: but again I'm quite opinionated, as you guys know, and
Speaker 2: I don't believe it's quite enough. So buy now, pay
Speaker 2: later schemes sorry, buy now, pay later. Providers will need
Speaker 2: to identify in advance what types of consumers their products
Speaker 2: are suitable for. So they are to quote Georgia King
Speaker 2: direct distribution to that demographic, which essentially means they are
Speaker 2: only to directly market to those demographics. But I would
Speaker 2: argue that that's kind of up in the air, like
Speaker 2: how do you directly market to someone who's over the
Speaker 2: age of thirty five not thirty four? So I don't know.
Speaker 2: But they're also going to be in a position where
Speaker 2: they need to consider the proportion of late fees that
Speaker 2: they're dishing out and review and change the design or
Speaker 2: the distribution of their product so that people aren't slugged
Speaker 2: with too many payments they actually can't meet. Now, let's
Speaker 2: be honest, this is better than nothing, but again quite opinionated.
Speaker 2: It's not enough.
Speaker 3: When I was reading the there was something about a
Speaker 3: code of conduct in there. Can you expand on that
Speaker 3: a little?
Speaker 2: Yes? So the buy now, pay later industry is in
Speaker 2: the process of writing a code of conduct. But self
Speaker 2: regulation isn't ideal either, as it won't cover all by now,
Speaker 2: pay later players but the ones who follow it, so
Speaker 2: it's kind of a choice. There are lots and lots
Speaker 2: of new buy now, pay later providers popping up literally
Speaker 2: every week, but what they're proposing at this stage only
Speaker 2: covers a total of eight businesses, and we don't yet
Speaker 2: know what that code even looks like.
Speaker 3: Hmm okay. I read as well that a massive number
Speaker 3: of Australians are taking out loans to meet what they
Speaker 3: owe after paid, to avoid those late fees stacking up.
Speaker 3: Would you say that's a good idea or just bad news?
Speaker 1: Look?
Speaker 2: I think it's bad news because it means these buy now,
Speaker 2: pay later schemes are actually getting people into debt that
Speaker 2: they can't service. And if you're in a position where
Speaker 2: you need to then reach out and get a personal
Speaker 2: loan and take on an interest rate on a loan,
Speaker 2: it means that you're clearly not making the payments for
Speaker 2: your buy now, pay later scheme. So for me, I
Speaker 2: think that's a really terrible thing. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: if you feel like you are drowning in by now
Speaker 2: pay later debt, it is probably a very good idea
Speaker 2: to reach out to someone to consolidate a debt so
Speaker 2: that you're not paying les fee after late fee and
Speaker 2: you actually deal with it properly.
Speaker 3: It is worrying that that is even a thing that
Speaker 3: people have to do, though, right.
Speaker 2: It's insane because arguably lots of these people who do
Speaker 2: get after pay as they pay kinda open pay whatever
Speaker 2: we want to call it, in positions where they probably
Speaker 2: wouldn't have been approved for a credit card in the
Speaker 2: first place.
Speaker 3: Which is why they should be regulated. Okay, so we
Speaker 3: have hypped on about the negative side of which there is, well,
Speaker 3: there's a lot going on in there. But are there
Speaker 3: any redeemable qualities to after pay and other by now
Speaker 3: pay later services?
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a good question, and I covered a
Speaker 2: lot of this in our episode in season one, so
Speaker 2: if you want to go back, none of my opinions
Speaker 2: from that have changed. But after Pay has signed up
Speaker 2: to the AFCA, which is the Australian finance complaints authority,
Speaker 2: which is really important, but it's really not enough without
Speaker 2: the rules laid out by the Credit Protections Act, which
Speaker 2: we mentioned earlier. So it's essentially them signing up to
Speaker 2: take on a little bit more authority, but at the
Speaker 2: same time, it's kind of like, well, authority for what,
Speaker 2: there's no rule. This is the wild West, my friends.
Speaker 2: They also don't charge any interest, So if we're trying
Speaker 2: to pull out all of the good things about why
Speaker 2: now pay latest schemes, they actually don't charge any interest,
Speaker 2: which is a great thing if we think about it pragmatically.
Speaker 2: Fees only coming to play if you're late on your payments.
Speaker 2: And I mentioned in season one in our after Pay
Speaker 2: episode that I've actually got a girlfriend who uses these
Speaker 2: systems religiously. So she'll go on the Iconic, for example,
Speaker 2: and order five different dresses that she wants to try on,
Speaker 2: not wing she has something on the weekend that she
Speaker 2: wants to purchase address for. She'll keep one of them
Speaker 2: send full back, and she's only ever been charged, you know,
Speaker 2: fifty bucks to do that. She doesn't get charged to
Speaker 2: the full them out in that situation. Yes, she's using
Speaker 2: it really responsibly. She has an income where she could
Speaker 2: pay that debt if for some reason she didn't send
Speaker 2: her package back, But to me, that's arguably a very
Speaker 2: big risk. But she uses it so that she doesn't
Speaker 2: have like seven hundred dollars going out of her account
Speaker 2: that then arguably needs to be refunded. So for her,
Speaker 2: it's a cash flow tool, and I think it works
Speaker 2: really well for her. But to me, those people are
Speaker 2: so few and far between, and I haven't asked her recently,
Speaker 2: but I'm not sure if it's caught up with her
Speaker 2: at any stage or made her do any impulse purchases.
Speaker 2: Another thing that I will say is that these providers
Speaker 2: can genuinely be a really good short term solution for
Speaker 2: those in need. So I've spoken about it again on
Speaker 2: the other podcast, But sometimes people genuinely need these for
Speaker 2: medical services that they couldn't have otherwise accessed, dental appointments,
Speaker 2: things for their children, in which case I think it's
Speaker 2: a fantastic service if you just don't have the cash flow.
Speaker 2: So I remember after that first episode, a number of
Speaker 2: people reached out to me and said, look, I'm on
Speaker 2: Centrelink and I didn't have the cash, but I needed
Speaker 2: to buy my daughter school shoes.
Speaker 3: You do you like?
Speaker 2: I genuinely think that if you are using it responsibly
Speaker 2: and using it as a budget tool, this could be
Speaker 2: a really great addition. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: you're seeing the amount of debt people are going into,
Speaker 2: the amount of late fees. That tells me that not
Speaker 2: everybody is as responsible as the people that message us
Speaker 2: and tell us that they are using her responsibly.
Speaker 3: Well, that's exactly right, and that's what the stats that
Speaker 3: we've gone through today show us. That a lot of
Speaker 3: people aren't using these responsibly, and that's something that we
Speaker 3: really need to call out and that after pay aren't
Speaker 3: going to be slapping on their billboards.
Speaker 2: You know, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 3: So my next question here, b is what you would
Speaker 3: say the role of credit cards within this conversation is,
Speaker 3: I know, to add a little competition into this field.
Speaker 3: Many banks have actually introduced no interest credit cards. So
Speaker 3: is that a better option for our listeners should they
Speaker 3: go down that route?
Speaker 2: I mean, you probably should do my budget and cashlow
Speaker 2: masterclass and never need anything again, but that's beside the point.
Speaker 2: So as an alternative to have to pay and other
Speaker 2: buy now, pay later providers, some of the big banks
Speaker 2: now do actually offer interest free credit cards, and they
Speaker 2: charge a monthly fee instead, which varies depending on the
Speaker 2: balance that you have on the car. So NAB, for example,
Speaker 2: have a thousand dollar credit limit, and you pay thirty
Speaker 2: five dollars a month with a ten dollar monthly fee
Speaker 2: on your balance, and say you had two thousand dollars
Speaker 2: on there, you would pay a minimum seventy five dollars
Speaker 2: a month with a fifteen dollar monthly fee included in
Speaker 2: your balance. And then for three thousand dollars, for example,
Speaker 2: you'd be paying one hundred and ten dollars a month
Speaker 2: with a twenty dollar fee included your balance. So similarly
Speaker 2: to a buy now, pay later program, let's call it
Speaker 2: a program. I keep calling it a scheme because it's
Speaker 2: a scam, a scam, but it's not a scam, my friends.
Speaker 2: But you won't be charged anything if you pay what
Speaker 2: you o off. The difference is that these cards can
Speaker 2: be used wherever a MasterCard or Visa is accepted, so
Speaker 2: they essentially give you access to a wider range of retailers,
Speaker 2: and they also have a continuous line of credit, which
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie is terrifying to me. Look we
Speaker 2: all know how big the big banks are, Like, I'll
Speaker 2: give you a hot tip, they're huge. So they cool
Speaker 2: quite seriously enter the buy now, pay later area if
Speaker 2: they really wanted to, Let's be honest, and they could
Speaker 2: walk all over the current providers who have the edge
Speaker 2: on being the first ones to do it. But banks
Speaker 2: have arguably an unparalleled access to finance in a way
Speaker 2: that After Pay and like just can't beat. So it
Speaker 2: would be interesting to see what they do in that
Speaker 2: space and how over the next few years they're planning
Speaker 2: on competing with them, because I know they arguably would
Speaker 2: be having these conversations internally because it would be really
Speaker 2: silly not to. I don't know if you guys saw
Speaker 2: the after pay share price skyrocket this year, what.
Speaker 3: Are we talking?
Speaker 2: Okay, so if we talk about it, I think that
Speaker 2: they peaked in a like late February at maybe like
Speaker 2: nearly forty dollars a share, and then in March, which
Speaker 2: is when a lot of people started buying them, there
Speaker 2: was like a little bit of hype around them, they
Speaker 2: dropped to eight dollars ninety a share ish, Like I'm
Speaker 2: sure it went lower, but that's just my memory of it,
Speaker 2: and now Georgia, they're up to close to one hundred dollars, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't know if they are a hundred dollars today,
Speaker 2: but I guarantee it would be around that. So they
Speaker 2: absolutely have shot up. But the reason they've shot up
Speaker 2: is because they're being profitable. And can we please remember
Speaker 2: how they're being profitable, guys, it's from your late fees.
Speaker 3: Ah, this actually makes me so angry. That is ridiculous,
Speaker 3: and I hate that that profit does come to the
Speaker 3: detriment of consumers exactly.
Speaker 2: And most of the consumers are people like you, guys
Speaker 2: in our community. So it feels like our job to
Speaker 2: share this information with you. If you decide to continue
Speaker 2: to use these things, that's fine. I actually just want
Speaker 2: to put you, guys in a position where you're making
Speaker 2: educated decisions, like there's no right or wrong when it
Speaker 2: comes to money, and I think that that is so
Speaker 2: important to remember because you do you like that is
Speaker 2: so fair. Your values might not be my values, but
Speaker 2: my values are putting you in a position where you're
Speaker 2: making an educated decision. And if you want to, just
Speaker 2: like one of my girlfriends, continue to use after pay
Speaker 2: because it makes sense to you, then fantastic. That company
Speaker 2: is doing great things for you. But if you were
Speaker 2: finding that those payments are spiraling you out of control
Speaker 2: and making you make really big impulse decisions and putting
Speaker 2: you in a position where you are not confident with
Speaker 2: your money, then maybe you really need to think about
Speaker 2: whether they are the right product for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's exactly right. We want you, guys to
Speaker 3: be as educated as possible. That's what our platform is for,
Speaker 3: so there's never any judgment in anything we say.
Speaker 2: Absolutely not.
Speaker 3: It's just us putting it out there and making sure
Speaker 3: it's as unbiased and true to what is the reality
Speaker 3: as possible.
Speaker 2: I guess absolutely, even though I seem to lack the
Speaker 2: ability to be non biased. But that is beside the point,
Speaker 2: my friends.
Speaker 3: The other thing I wanted to ask V was about
Speaker 3: a couple of articles I read in by now Pay
Speaker 3: Later Schemes providers services like after pay as founders talking
Speaker 3: about how the lack of regulation is a good thing
Speaker 3: for them because it allows them to continue to be
Speaker 3: innovative and like their leaders in the space, and they
Speaker 3: were painting it in this real amazing, empowering, like business
Speaker 3: savvy way. I was just like, Oh, this feels dodgy.
Speaker 3: What's your take on that.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie. I have epic amounts of respect
Speaker 2: for the after pay company. They have come from nothing
Speaker 2: and made an epic splash. They are not doing arguably
Speaker 2: the wrong thing. It is just the way that we
Speaker 2: are starting to use them and essentially take advantage of
Speaker 2: them in a way. So for me, yes, they can
Speaker 2: be more innovative, and that's fantastic for them, and it
Speaker 2: is really great. But I would then argue, where does
Speaker 2: ethics come to play in this? How does ethics actually
Speaker 2: play into the financial services space? What does that mean?
Speaker 2: How does that work? And you know, we shouldn't be
Speaker 2: putting our personal ethical opinions on things, but like, what's
Speaker 2: the baseline of ethics? Like the medical industry has a
Speaker 2: code of ethics, we don't have that for them. Why
Speaker 2: why can't they abide by the same legislation that I
Speaker 2: need to abide by as a financial.
Speaker 3: Advisor exactly the credit card companies have to do it,
Speaker 3: so why not them? I think it speaks to a
Speaker 3: lack of regard for the needs of the consumer. I
Speaker 3: think it's not good. But you guys are probably picking
Speaker 3: that up anyway. We'll move on here. This is a
Speaker 3: little bit of centavy and I think you did speak
Speaker 3: about this in our first episode on after pay Back
Speaker 3: in season one, But can it actually damage your ability
Speaker 3: to get a loan after pay and other buy now,
Speaker 3: pay later services.
Speaker 2: Look short answer, yes. When I put that first episode out,
Speaker 2: the Royal Commission hadn't wrapped up yet. So since the
Speaker 2: Royal Commission things have changed slightly. They've tightened up significantly,
Speaker 2: and you do hear stories of people being rejected for
Speaker 2: home loans because they have an outstanding Zippay balance, which
Speaker 2: to me is crazy, but it is so worth taking
Speaker 2: note of, even those providers who don't require a credit check,
Speaker 2: and it doesn't impact your credit score for anyone wondering
Speaker 2: about that. Lenders will take buy now, pay later purchases
Speaker 2: into consideration and consider them as a line of credit,
Speaker 2: because like credit cards, you're borrowing money you do not have,
Speaker 2: usually to fund items you do not need, which is
Speaker 2: why they should be regulated. This quite a heated episode,
Speaker 2: it has, and I'm just so wildly heated up about
Speaker 2: this because I genuinely think that so many of us
Speaker 2: using them convince ourselves that, nah, that's not me. I
Speaker 2: won't get out of control. I'll continue to use it
Speaker 2: and then you find yourself in even more trouble.
Speaker 3: Also, the psychology of this fee. I do have one
Speaker 3: last question, but I'm gonna sneak this one in as well.
Speaker 3: More than we are also obsessed with after pay. What
Speaker 3: is it about buying now pay later that really appeals to.
Speaker 2: Us instant gratification versus delayed gratification. I'm gonna ask you
Speaker 2: right now to look that up and put it in
Speaker 2: our newsletter. There's actually the have you heard of the
Speaker 2: marshmallow challenge?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's like these tiny children. They put in
Speaker 2: a room with one marshmallow in front of them, and
Speaker 2: they said, if you eat that marshmallow now, you won't
Speaker 2: get anymore when they come back. But if you don't
Speaker 2: eat that marshmallow and you wait when I come back,
Speaker 2: you'll get three more. The kids are like, oh, that's
Speaker 2: such a good deal, but some of them literally couldn't
Speaker 2: do it, and then eat the marshmallow and be like whatever,
Speaker 2: I don't care about The late ones like this is
Speaker 2: the best thing I've ever eaten, and some of them
Speaker 2: were really reserved. And then you know, sit back and
Speaker 2: just go okay, no problems, Like I'm totally taibe, so
Speaker 2: that would be me and I just sit back and
Speaker 2: be like, okay, cool, well, I want a total of
Speaker 2: four marshmallows, so I'm away for this. But everybody works differently.
Speaker 2: Everybody has a different personality. And some of those kids
Speaker 2: like kind of picked up the marshmallow, licked it, put
Speaker 2: it back to it down. Some of them like sniffed
Speaker 2: it and made sure that they actually didn't want to
Speaker 2: eat it. Like all of us have different levels of control,
Speaker 2: and that is human nature. But at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, by now pay later schemes are going to
Speaker 2: play into you as an individual if you are someone
Speaker 2: who really thrives on instant gratification, and that means getting
Speaker 2: the item now and not considering future you. That's something
Speaker 2: that you and I talk about all the time, and
Speaker 2: that is putting future you first, Like they are so important,
Speaker 2: they deserve your respect, and they deserve you to start
Speaker 2: putting them first. Because the sooner you start putting future
Speaker 2: you first, the sooner you're going to feel like you've
Speaker 2: been put first by yourself.
Speaker 3: Love that from you, Indeed, that was nice. The red
Speaker 3: ones are hitting the girls.
Speaker 2: Please don't tell anybody that we're drinking their red wine.
Speaker 3: My life is really hearty then as well, beautiful. I
Speaker 3: just wanted to add in there as well that like,
Speaker 3: it feels so much better when you save and save
Speaker 3: and save and then you splurge on that item that
Speaker 3: you've been so looking forward to, rather than saving a
Speaker 3: quarter of what it costs buying it then, and then
Speaker 3: you've got the item, and then you still have to
Speaker 3: continuously pay for it. It's like that is just not
Speaker 3: what anyone wants to be doing, so I don't know,
Speaker 3: just bear that in mind as well. But my last
Speaker 3: question here for u V is what would you love
Speaker 3: our listeners to take away from this episode and what
Speaker 3: do you want them to be mindful of when it
Speaker 3: comes to Buy now, Pay Later.
Speaker 2: I just want you to be mindful of your purchases
Speaker 2: and whether they're actually relevant to something you absolutely need
Speaker 2: right now. I don't think this episode should be taken
Speaker 2: as by now pay later programs are awful and terrible
Speaker 2: and going to destroy you. I think it's more please
Speaker 2: understand that some personalities aren't going to work. And I'm
Speaker 2: going to be really honest, and this is not me
Speaker 2: being on my high horse. It's just how I manage
Speaker 2: my life, and I used to be in personal debt.
Speaker 2: Like that's something that I've been through, So don't get
Speaker 2: me wrong. I know how it feels. I know where
Speaker 2: you've come from. But I think that if now you know,
Speaker 2: nearly thirty year old me terrifying had after pay, I'd
Speaker 2: probably use it really responsibly. I cannot say that twenty
Speaker 2: one year old Victoria would have used it responsibly because
Speaker 2: she racked up a personal loan and didn't pay anything
Speaker 2: off apart from the minimum repayments for a very long time.
Speaker 2: So I think future me in this situation is arguably
Speaker 2: more educated than twenty one year old me. But twenty
Speaker 2: one year old me wouldn't have second guessed it. I
Speaker 2: would have just thought it was a fantastic way to
Speaker 2: look really great every weekend.
Speaker 3: Which is why it is so risky. Yeah, I think
Speaker 3: everyone has gotten the gist of today's episode, but now
Speaker 3: it is time to move across to the listener question.
Speaker 5: I have a question about a friend of mine who
Speaker 5: I feel is getting herself into a bit of trouble
Speaker 5: with after pay. She always has the newest and best
Speaker 5: clothes and takes a lot of pride in that kind
Speaker 5: of stuff. But I'm worried she's taking it too far.
Speaker 5: I know she has no money, and I'm worried that
Speaker 5: it's going to spin out of control. As her friend,
Speaker 5: I feel I should intervene, but I'm not quite sure
Speaker 5: what to say. She hates talking about money and tells
Speaker 5: me that it makes her anxious, and I don't want
Speaker 5: to patronize her.
Speaker 2: Thanks.
Speaker 3: This is a massive dilemma, Victoria. I don't think I
Speaker 3: quite know what to say. Have you got any thoughts
Speaker 3: to kick us off?
Speaker 2: I feel like this is actually a pickle? Is that
Speaker 2: a thing that we say in now?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pickle?
Speaker 2: Can that actually become a sortem catch frase? Can that
Speaker 2: be a sort catchphrase?
Speaker 3: I'm open to it.
Speaker 2: I really like the pickle. We're in a pickle? How
Speaker 2: do we work this out? But genuinely, this is so
Speaker 2: something that I'm sure a lot of you have been
Speaker 2: through because it's very hard to not notice your friends
Speaker 2: new outfit or pair of shoes or bag, or the
Speaker 2: consistency of those things coming in. And whilst we can't
Speaker 2: pry on everybody else's financial situation, who knows, maybe Georgia
Speaker 2: King has a trust fund she hasn't told me about.
Speaker 2: I do think that caring about your friends is something
Speaker 2: that is really important and I always talk about, you know,
Speaker 2: the importance of being kind. But sometimes being kind isn't easy.
Speaker 2: Sometimes being kind is really hard, And this conversation could
Speaker 2: come off as you know, being really condescending, and it
Speaker 2: could be you know, your friend getting up in arms.
Speaker 2: And arguably, when you make someone feel uncomfortable, they get
Speaker 2: immediately defensive. So I think starting to have conversations with
Speaker 2: your friend around money and not going immediately to the
Speaker 2: issue that you want to talk about is probably a
Speaker 2: really great way. So, without being self promotional, start recommending
Speaker 2: that she listens to episodes of the podcast, Start talking
Speaker 2: about money more openly, Start sharing your money goals. Often
Speaker 2: when people are in situation where they're using buy now,
Speaker 2: pay later programs, they don't have larger financial goals, and
Speaker 2: that is something that if you do have larger financial goals,
Speaker 2: you're going to start thinking about more. So maybe recommend
Speaker 2: that they sit down and have a chat about, you know,
Speaker 2: the goals that they have, or like, what are you
Speaker 2: trying to achieve or you know, oh my gosh, something's
Speaker 2: in my way. And I really want to get rid
Speaker 2: of that, maybe talk to them about barriers that you've
Speaker 2: got so that they feel open to share their journey.
Speaker 2: There's something really special about showing your vulnerability so that
Speaker 2: your friend or the person you're talking about actually reciprocates.
Speaker 3: Well, that's it. You're kind of planting that seed, because
Speaker 3: otherwise it could seem kind of like an intervention and
Speaker 3: it could be quite scary, and you're right, she would
Speaker 3: totally go on the defensive. But I feel like this
Speaker 3: question kind of extends to like, if your friend has
Speaker 3: a boyfriend that you know is just bad news, and
Speaker 3: it's like, do I have that conversation with them or
Speaker 3: do I not? Like I feel in my heart like
Speaker 3: my values would tell me to speak to that friend
Speaker 3: openly and honestly. Depending on your relationship. If they are
Speaker 3: your best friend, then I feel like it is almost
Speaker 3: your role to do so. But at the same time,
Speaker 3: they're going to do what they want to do. But
Speaker 3: when it comes to money, I think just starting gently
Speaker 3: definitely getting involved with shoes on the money. I feel
Speaker 3: like our podcast, again not to be self promotional, but
Speaker 3: I feel like it is a really gentle way of
Speaker 3: having these conversations about money that we've not had before.
Speaker 3: And I feel like a lot of people have come
Speaker 3: to our podcast and to our community and have felt,
Speaker 3: oh wow, like money isn't so scary. After all, we're
Speaker 3: all going through this together.
Speaker 2: It shouldn't be scary. It should be just something that
Speaker 2: we talk about in the same way that we talk
Speaker 2: about loving dogs. Like I'm so open about that conversation.
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, these are really
Speaker 2: hard conversations to have if you've never had them, kind
Speaker 2: of like speaking a different language and no one's comfortable
Speaker 2: speaking Japanese. If it's your first day, you might know
Speaker 2: how to say hello, but that is literally the extent
Speaker 2: of your knowledge. But the more you immerse yourself in it,
Speaker 2: the more you understand, the more you feel like you're
Speaker 2: empowered by that. And to me, I think it's just
Speaker 2: really important to care for your friends, and I think
Speaker 2: maybe preface it with that and just be like, hey,
Speaker 2: I really care about you, and I just wanted to
Speaker 2: point out that. I just feel like maybe that's something
Speaker 2: that isn't that great for your future. Yeah, And something
Speaker 2: else that I think is really important is not expecting
Speaker 2: a response from that person, like just put it on
Speaker 2: the table, drop it, walk away. It is not something
Speaker 2: that they need to justify or talk to you about
Speaker 2: unless they're really comfortable to do so. But I think
Speaker 2: the way I would approach that is, Hey, Georgia, I
Speaker 2: just really need to get this off my chest. I
Speaker 2: really want to talk to you about this. You don't
Speaker 2: have to come back to me with a response right now.
Speaker 2: You don't even have to come back to me or
Speaker 2: with a response at all. I'm not expecting it. I
Speaker 2: just want to let you know how I'm feeling. Because
Speaker 2: your friend's not ready for that conversation. You've probably been
Speaker 2: mulling it over in your head for the last week
Speaker 2: at least. They're not ready though, because they didn't expect
Speaker 2: you to say that, so don't expect them to come
Speaker 2: straight back. It's the same with any conversation, whether that's
Speaker 2: your partner, your parents, like, don't expect people to be
Speaker 2: as prepared for a conversation as you are when you've
Speaker 2: had all of the full time to prepare.
Speaker 3: I guess the moral of the story here is that
Speaker 3: we're both very supportive of having that conversation. She might
Speaker 3: not respond that well, but I think it is important
Speaker 3: as her friend to let her know that you're there.
Speaker 3: Assuming she's a girl. I'm not sure if she was,
Speaker 3: but yeah, I think that's the moral of what we're
Speaker 3: trying to say here.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And I think it's just about being kind
Speaker 2: to your friend and being kind to yourself. And like,
Speaker 2: my friends, if you're in that position and you're finding
Speaker 2: yourself in a space where you are spending unnecessarily, like
Speaker 2: let me be that friend. You don't need to do that. Like,
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, you're not putting future
Speaker 2: you first, and she's or he's or they are really
Speaker 2: really important.
Speaker 4: Hey, I'm a twenty three year old Kiwi and this
Speaker 4: is my military money diary.
Speaker 3: Now let's take a sneak peek into the financial lives
Speaker 3: of perfect strangers. It's time for money diaries.
Speaker 4: I used to be a terrible savor and a terrible
Speaker 4: spin there. I used to really like live in the moment,
Speaker 4: and I'd spend my money really frivolously, and I always
Speaker 4: would tell myself that the experiences made it worth it.
Speaker 4: But the problem was that I would just go on
Speaker 4: to debt without a second thought, and I seriously didn't
Speaker 4: think about how it would impact my future at all,
Speaker 4: and it kind of makes me a little bit sick
Speaker 4: thinking about how much I worked throughout my student years
Speaker 4: and how little I saved and I have nothing to
Speaker 4: show for it. But yeah, I've completely turned that around
Speaker 4: thanks to She's on the money, which is really cool.
Speaker 4: And I have a completely different attitude towards money now,
Speaker 4: which is security. And I guess coming from that place
Speaker 4: of financial insecurity of being a really broke student, like
Speaker 4: I literally would be skipping meals and I remember eating
Speaker 4: the most sad little meals of like playing potatoes because
Speaker 4: I had nothing else. And now I'm a lot more
Speaker 4: protective of my money because I know what it was
Speaker 4: like to really struggle.
Speaker 3: What does our peee money diarists do? How much does
Speaker 3: she earn and how much is in her accounts.
Speaker 4: I'm a legal opposer in the military, which is basically
Speaker 4: being a deployable in the house lawyer uniform, and I
Speaker 4: am a recent grade, so I earn about seventy two
Speaker 4: thousand a year. That includes a four percent contribution that
Speaker 4: my employee makes to kwisaver, which is the New Zealand
Speaker 4: fund that you can use for your first time or retirement.
Speaker 4: I have sixteen thousand in my kwisaver. At the moment,
Speaker 4: I have a three thousand dollar emergency fund, and then
Speaker 4: I have a fully funded sinking fund, which is about
Speaker 4: one thousand dollars for me personally, and I have six
Speaker 4: hundred of my main account and then five hundred in
Speaker 4: my long term savings, which has taken a bit of
Speaker 4: a hat because I've made a couple of big purchases
Speaker 4: in the last few months. I bought a new car,
Speaker 4: which was five thousand, and I had to get a
Speaker 4: new laptop, which was eighteen hundred. But that's the first
Speaker 4: time that I've ever been able to pay for things
Speaker 4: outright and not had to go on to debt, which
Speaker 4: was pretty cool because I'd been saving.
Speaker 3: What I have thought was on investing.
Speaker 4: I'm really wanting to start investing. I've never felt stable
Speaker 4: or secure enough in my finances to start, or even
Speaker 4: my own abilities to start. But yeah, Victoria, her passion
Speaker 4: for it has like really inspired me, which I'm sure
Speaker 4: she'll be happy to hear. So I really want to start,
Speaker 4: but I am finding it hard because I guess I've
Speaker 4: come from a place of real financial insecurity in the past,
Speaker 4: so it's quite hard for me to put money towards
Speaker 4: something that I'm not one hundred percent confident, and so
Speaker 4: I really want to grow my confidence in that.
Speaker 3: Does she have any debts?
Speaker 4: Just last year, I was still a really broke student
Speaker 4: and I had over five thousand dollars of debt, but
Speaker 4: over twenty twenty and thanks to she's on the money
Speaker 4: as well. I've paid it all off.
Speaker 3: Thankfully.
Speaker 4: I didn't have any credit cards or anything with interest
Speaker 4: on it. I just had an overdraft I had after
Speaker 4: paying lay by, which I closed for good, thank the Lord.
Speaker 4: I also had fifteen hundred dollars of a nine thousand
Speaker 4: dollars in visiline debt left to pay and just a
Speaker 4: little bit owing to people that had helped me out.
Speaker 4: But yeah, completely paid that all off, which is such
Speaker 4: freeing feeling, and I don't feel stressed about money now,
Speaker 4: which I'm very blessed and privileged to feel now. I
Speaker 4: just have my student loan which is sitting at forty
Speaker 4: three thousand, five hundred, which covered me doing my bachelor's
Speaker 4: and then my Master of Laws.
Speaker 3: What is her best money habit?
Speaker 4: I think my best money habit is that I've always
Speaker 4: been very minimalistic, like I really don't like owning a
Speaker 4: lot of stuff. I find shopping and having things quite overwhelming.
Speaker 4: And I live in barracks, so that kind of helps.
Speaker 4: Like I don't have a lot of space, so I
Speaker 4: don't often get swayed by sales or like unnecessary luxuries.
Speaker 3: I guess what's her worst money habit.
Speaker 4: I used to be a terrible savor, but that's in
Speaker 4: the past. I think now my worst habit was I
Speaker 4: have a lot of disposable income that I leave in
Speaker 4: my main account.
Speaker 3: Every fortnight.
Speaker 4: I put about fifty percent of my take hompaign into
Speaker 4: savings and student loan, et cetera. But then I keep
Speaker 4: that other fifty percent just sitting in my account, mostly
Speaker 4: because of that fear of being called out or unable
Speaker 4: to pay for things or help other people out. And
Speaker 4: I think that just comes from my history with finances.
Speaker 4: So it makes me feel more confident and secure having
Speaker 4: it just sitting there. And to be honest, there's a
Speaker 4: good part of it. It keeps me on track with
Speaker 4: my savings because I don't end up dipping into it.
Speaker 4: But I think I definitely could budget a lot better
Speaker 4: and probably save more if I just had a bit
Speaker 4: more control over it.
Speaker 3: What's her big money goal.
Speaker 4: I would love to hit ten thousand in my savings account.
Speaker 4: That would be a huge achievement because I've never saved
Speaker 4: more than five thousand. And I also just really want
Speaker 4: to start investing.
Speaker 3: And what grade would our ken we military money giroists
Speaker 3: give herself? I would say a B.
Speaker 4: I used to be like below a D like a
Speaker 4: Z right at the bottom. But I definitely have improved
Speaker 4: heaps over last year. And I think when I have
Speaker 4: a longer history of saving and start investing, then I
Speaker 4: will feel more confident and probably bump up my score
Speaker 4: a little bit.
Speaker 3: Victoria, our military money dirist, what did you make of it?
Speaker 2: To be my little sister? Am I allowed to open
Speaker 2: adoptions for siblings? Is that cool? Can the entire She's
Speaker 2: on the money community become my sibyl?
Speaker 3: I have one hundred and ten thousand little sisters, and
Speaker 3: I love.
Speaker 2: That, like little sisters, little brothers, little them's, Like I
Speaker 2: love this. I don't know if my little sister's going
Speaker 2: to agree with that, though, Like Alex, please let me
Speaker 2: know if you actually listen to my podcast and got
Speaker 2: this far into it, please like let me know if
Speaker 2: I'm allowed new siblings. But I really liked her, and
Speaker 2: I just felt like, such as she's on the money advocate,
Speaker 2: like girl, I love you. But what I found really
Speaker 2: interesting was that she was able to save, she was
Speaker 2: able to spend, but she still felt anxious about it
Speaker 2: because she didn't have a plan. So for me, the
Speaker 2: number one tip I would give her is create a
Speaker 2: plan around your money, because she said that she was
Speaker 2: leaving fifty percent of her income in her spending account
Speaker 2: just because it makes her feel safe. And I totally
Speaker 2: get that. At the end of the day, you should
Speaker 2: be managing your money in a way that helps you
Speaker 2: sleep well at night. But if you don't, I don't
Speaker 2: have a plan, you are not able to maximize how
Speaker 2: much you can save and invest. She said she wanted
Speaker 2: to invest, and I'm going to make a grand assumption.
Speaker 2: She lives in barracks, which is a very privileged position
Speaker 2: to be in just because obviously a lot of stuff
Speaker 2: is supplemented or paid for, because that's the way these
Speaker 2: things work. Because she's literally putting her life on the
Speaker 2: line for us, which is epic and something definitely worthy
Speaker 2: of recognition. For me, I think it's definitely really important
Speaker 2: to have a plan in place and without I feel
Speaker 2: like this episode's so self promotional Georgia King, but I'm
Speaker 2: actually going to send her a log in to the
Speaker 2: cash Flow and Budget Masterclass, because I think that is
Speaker 2: actually the answer, like the way it steps you through,
Speaker 2: And obviously I've thought about this for more than a
Speaker 2: year how to create it, but the way it will
Speaker 2: step her through creating a plan is going to help
Speaker 2: her make her money work for her instead of she
Speaker 2: just being a little bit anxious about it. No one
Speaker 2: deserves to be anxious about money.
Speaker 3: I think it's really interesting as well, how much she's
Speaker 3: changed over the last twelve months. Glass last year she
Speaker 3: was in five K of debt, She's paid it all off,
Speaker 3: and now she's she's got it all going on. I
Speaker 3: don't think I wrote enough notes of everything that she's
Speaker 3: got happening, but I think three K in emergency, six
Speaker 3: hundred somewhere, five hundred in her long term savings. She
Speaker 3: bought a laptop.
Speaker 2: I've written a lot of note she bought a laptop,
Speaker 2: she bought a car. She's, in no doubt like she
Speaker 2: is epic, and that's an a plus to me, Like
Speaker 2: you're an epic person, and I just feel like it
Speaker 2: is so important to celebrate those money wins and not
Speaker 2: be anxious. And I don't know, I just feel like
Speaker 2: that's so cool. Also, cheers for all the credit you
Speaker 2: gave us, friend, Yeah, like we don't deserve it. At
Speaker 2: the end of the day, if you're a part of
Speaker 2: our community, the most important thing that you can remember
Speaker 2: is that we didn't do this. You did this. So
Speaker 2: many people will be listening to this, and our information
Speaker 2: and our knowledge and whatever else we've got is falling
Speaker 2: on deaf years because they're not ready to make the change.
Speaker 2: If you are changing, that's all on you. You did that.
Speaker 2: That's why we celebrate you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, beautifully said fee. Do we think it's time to
Speaker 3: wrap the show. If you got anything else.
Speaker 2: To add I do just before we head off, I'd
Speaker 2: like to acknowledge and pay respects to Australia's Aboriginal and
Speaker 2: Torres Strait Islander people's, the traditional custodians of the lands,
Speaker 2: the waterways and the skies all across Australia. We thank
Speaker 2: you for sharing and for carrying on the land which
Speaker 2: we are able to learn. We pay our respects to
Speaker 2: eldest past and present, and we share our friendship and
Speaker 2: our kindness.
Speaker 3: The advice shared on Australia's Smartest podcast, She is on
Speaker 3: the Money is general in nature and does not consider
Speaker 3: your individual circumstances. She is on the Money exists purely
Speaker 3: for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to
Speaker 3: make an investment or financial decision. And we promise Victoria
Speaker 3: Divine is an authorized representative of Australia Pacific Funds Management
Speaker 3: Propriety Limited ABN three four one three two four six
Speaker 3: three two five seven AFOSL three three nine one five one.
Speaker 3: And a big thank you to Ryan John, our producer,
Speaker 3: for putting together today's show.
Speaker 2: Also Mad congrats. Ryan John has just been announced as
Speaker 2: the breakfast summer radio host on Kiss FM with Lauren Phillips,
Speaker 2: which is epic and like now we can say we
Speaker 2: know a.
Speaker 3: Favorite people here does that start? That starts next week?
Speaker 2: It starts next week? Ryan, We love you, But you
Speaker 2: know what else we love how she's on the money community.
Speaker 2: So if you'd like to join us where our community
Speaker 2: shares money, tips and tricks literally every single day, free
Speaker 2: of judgment. So She's on the money and join us
Speaker 2: on Facebook. If face looks not anything you can also
Speaker 2: find us on Instagram, where she's on the money a
Speaker 2: us also on TikTok. We're probably trying to get in
Speaker 2: all of the social platforms, but most importantly, we are
Speaker 2: on your team. The last thing I wanted to say,
Speaker 2: which we definitely should have said earlier, was a big.
Speaker 3: Thank you to everyone who voted for us in the
Speaker 3: Podcast Awards Listener Award.
Speaker 2: I guess absolutely that was a topic.
Speaker 3: We're in the top ten.
Speaker 2: I mean, we can't compete with Life on Cut because
Speaker 2: that's ourably my favorite podcast, and I get why it
Speaker 2: was number one. Yeah, but like we tried, and I'm so.
Speaker 3: Grateful you we got lots of votes, so we're yeah,
Speaker 3: very grateful. I guess, as we always say with you guys,
Speaker 3: and yeah, just really appreciated.
Speaker 2: Sending so much love. We are very happy campus this week.
Speaker 2: So with that, let's let's wrap. See you next Wednesday, friends,