WEBVTT - Buy now, regulate never? 

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<v Speaker 1>She's on the Money.

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<v Speaker 2>She's on the Money.

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<v Speaker 3>Hello and welcome to She's on the Money. The smartest

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<v Speaker 3>podcast in the country, according to the Australian Podcast Awards

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<v Speaker 3>Wiki d we took kind of goal on the wekend goal.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, incredible. I cannot believe it and I did have

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit of a teary when we were announced TOARS.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a deep movement, I believe.

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<v Speaker 3>But it's not the award we thought we would win.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not gonna lie. I'm pretty transparent. I did think

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<v Speaker 2>we had a better chance in business, given we are

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<v Speaker 2>like the number one podcasting business, not to brag in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of listenership, obviously not in terms of business quality

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<v Speaker 2>if you are ask the Podcasting Awards, but the smartest

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's an epic compliment.

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<v Speaker 3>We'll take that.

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<v Speaker 2>I will take that and I'm going to run with it,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm probably gonna mention it to everybody meet like

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<v Speaker 2>when they're like, oh, what do you do as a job.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm no longer going to say I'm a financial advisor.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to say I'm the smartest podcaster in the country.

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<v Speaker 2>Because I'm just going to stretch the award to be

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<v Speaker 2>me individually.

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<v Speaker 3>That's what I've said as well. I'm like, hey, mum,

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<v Speaker 3>you've given birth to the smartest person in Australia.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Like, I'm just going to really take this and run

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<v Speaker 2>with it because I feel like if they give us

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<v Speaker 2>an inch, I am going to take the mile.

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<v Speaker 3>And why there is kind of a bit of a

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<v Speaker 3>funny twist here because where are we currently recording from.

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<v Speaker 2>We are currently Georgia Kings sitting on the floor in

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<v Speaker 2>my home office. You have a beanie over a microphone

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<v Speaker 2>that is not your regular microphone. You've got a good

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<v Speaker 2>glass of red in your hand. Because tonight, I, because

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<v Speaker 2>I'm the smartest podcaster in Australia, locked myself out of

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<v Speaker 2>our podcast studio right before we're going to record.

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<v Speaker 3>You did, But I mean that didn't dampen our spirits.

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<v Speaker 2>We're not.

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<v Speaker 3>We're ready.

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<v Speaker 2>It feels we're innovaty.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, that's it.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you guys would like to see a photo

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<v Speaker 2>of how George is recording the podcast, please head to

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<v Speaker 2>our stories because I'm going to post it as soon

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<v Speaker 2>as this pod drop.

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<v Speaker 3>Now we'll get into this show now, guys. For anyone

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<v Speaker 3>who doesn't know, my name is Georgia King. I'm a

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<v Speaker 3>copywriter and journalism student. I'm also the smartest person in

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<v Speaker 3>Australia and every Wednesday I dive deep into a financial

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<v Speaker 3>conversation with Melbourne based Money with Victoria Define.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello Georgia King, Hello smart person. Hello.

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<v Speaker 3>Now Today on the show, we're tackling one of our

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<v Speaker 3>favorite topics, by now Pay Later. But what we'll be

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<v Speaker 3>doing in this episode is taking a little deep dive

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<v Speaker 3>into why they aren't currently being regulated in the same

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<v Speaker 3>way credit companies are. A recent ABC article revealed that

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<v Speaker 3>a staggering one in five people using buy now, Pay

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<v Speaker 3>later schemes mispayments and are racking up serious amounts of debt.

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<v Speaker 3>Yet despite this, and despite serious concerns from consumer advocates,

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<v Speaker 3>very little is being done to regulate this industry, leaving

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<v Speaker 3>vulnerable people even more exposed to being taken advantage of.

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<v Speaker 3>We are going to be getting into the nitty gritty

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<v Speaker 3>of this topic and chatting through the state of where

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<v Speaker 3>things are out when it comes to buying our pay

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<v Speaker 3>later and what our listeners really do need to be

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<v Speaker 3>mindful of. But before we get there, and before our

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<v Speaker 3>money wins and confessions, I wanted to bring up a

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<v Speaker 3>little bit of correspondence that we had from a few

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<v Speaker 3>days back from a listener. People who listened to the

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<v Speaker 3>show week on week will know that the last week

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<v Speaker 3>Victoria's money win was buying children's shoes. It wasn't your

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<v Speaker 3>money when it was.

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<v Speaker 2>No, it was one of our community members' money wins.

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<v Speaker 2>And they said that they had bought children's shoes instead

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<v Speaker 2>of adults shoes and saved a bomb.

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<v Speaker 3>And we were like, what a win. Everyone should do it.

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<v Speaker 3>Forget adults shoes, they're are rought buy kids shoes. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 3>Maddie got in touch.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a podiatrist in Queensland. I just listened to the

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<v Speaker 1>podcast and you wanted some clarification on the shoes.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I just thought i'd touch base.

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<v Speaker 1>And just say it's not about the quality of shoes

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<v Speaker 1>with kids shoes versus adult shoes, it's more so about

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<v Speaker 1>the amount of material in there. Kids shoes are designed

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<v Speaker 1>for kids a day weigh fifteen, twenty thirty, maybe forty

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<v Speaker 1>kilograms versu an adult who can weigh fifty all the

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<v Speaker 1>way up to one hundred. The materials can't handle the

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<v Speaker 1>weight of an adult, so therefore they can't support the

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<v Speaker 1>foot as well. So yeah, that's the difference. Love your podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>thanks so much.

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<v Speaker 3>So there you have it. Guys, we were wrong, but

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<v Speaker 3>a big thank you to Maddie for sending through that memo.

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<v Speaker 3>If anyone else wants to send through memos, we love

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<v Speaker 3>hearing your voices was a bit of fun.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, please send memos, jokes, corrections, Yeah, memories for being

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<v Speaker 2>the smartest podcast in Australia. Literally everything is welcome. But

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<v Speaker 2>I'm also just going to say that is not deterring

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<v Speaker 2>me from buying children's shoes because the money win is

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<v Speaker 2>always going to be trump actual you know, safety information

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<v Speaker 2>for me. I get it. Money wins, confessions. Let's move along, Georgia.

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<v Speaker 2>I have a money win that I have been telling

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<v Speaker 2>everybody this week about. I also do the entire lead

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<v Speaker 2>up to the story. I tell them how much else

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<v Speaker 2>going to pay? And then I tell them how much

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<v Speaker 2>actually we got it for. And I hope that there

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<v Speaker 2>is shocked and excited as me. So now it is

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<v Speaker 2>your turn to hear this story. Are you ready lay

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<v Speaker 2>it on me?

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<v Speaker 4>Cool?

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<v Speaker 2>So, as you all know, I also have a financial

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<v Speaker 2>services business, Zella, and in July we moved offices, which

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<v Speaker 2>jokes on us was absolutely fruitless because we weren't allowed

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<v Speaker 2>to even go into the offices. Aside from that, is

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<v Speaker 2>now November, late November, and we are now allowed to

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<v Speaker 2>be back in our offices. So I have been looking

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<v Speaker 2>for a minimum of six chests of draws, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>those ones that go under your desk, the domain of

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<v Speaker 2>I'm assuming like really thin steel, have a lock on it,

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit like a filing cabinet.

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<v Speaker 3>Just classic office, classic office.

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<v Speaker 2>Really chic furniture. So I've been looking for those for

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<v Speaker 2>ages and I went online thinking i'd get a good deal.

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<v Speaker 2>They range between two hundred and fifty and three hundred

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<v Speaker 2>dollars per unit, which to me is an absolute raught

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<v Speaker 2>and absolutely not within budget because eighteen hundred dollars on

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<v Speaker 2>chest of draws just feels.

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<v Speaker 3>Like it's lackluster. It's anti climactic.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it's for the office, and I just feel

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<v Speaker 2>like when you have an office, you don't realize how

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<v Speaker 2>quickly expenses add up and printing ads up and the

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<v Speaker 2>amount of highlighteds I go through. It's actually insane. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>So one thing led to another. I tried to find

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<v Speaker 2>a discounted version online and I decided to take a

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<v Speaker 2>leaf out of my own book and check Facebook marketplace

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<v Speaker 2>and do you know what I found there? What do

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<v Speaker 2>you find office straws for thirty dollars per set of

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<v Speaker 2>office straws? You didn't, Yes, I did, And they are

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<v Speaker 2>perfect and they are in as new condition, and they

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<v Speaker 2>have two keys per office straw, which to me is

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<v Speaker 2>just going above and beyond, like who keeps the spare key?

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<v Speaker 3>That's a lot. I feel like they are fresh as well.

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<v Speaker 3>I was just in the office when we were meant

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<v Speaker 3>to record properly.

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<v Speaker 2>And they are honestly, they look brand new. And my friends,

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<v Speaker 2>I got six sets of draws delivered to my office

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<v Speaker 2>by two lovely men for two hundred dollars.

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<v Speaker 3>So how much is that?

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<v Speaker 2>In totally I think it was like ridiculous amounts of money.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't do quick maths.

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<v Speaker 3>One hundred.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's actually sixteen hundred. I just didn't want to

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<v Speaker 2>be put on the spot. But I've saved sixteen hundred

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<v Speaker 2>dollars this week and I could not be more excited.

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<v Speaker 3>That is that is a huge win.

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<v Speaker 2>Check the Instagram stories for the pictures of the drawers,

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<v Speaker 2>which are really lackluster, but I'm excited. So given we

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<v Speaker 2>are all friends here. You should pretend to be excited

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<v Speaker 2>for me. Sure, Georgia, have you got something to compete

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<v Speaker 2>with that?

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<v Speaker 3>It's not as good?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay? Well, moving on?

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<v Speaker 3>As I said last week, recently moved out and by

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<v Speaker 3>the boys, exactly right. What's essential when you move out?

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<v Speaker 3>Wineglasses are essential? But didn't have any. Was going to

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<v Speaker 3>go to kmart, but didn't go to kmart, went to

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<v Speaker 3>the op shop. What did I find? Six glasses? Really cute,

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<v Speaker 3>really quirky, vintage twelve dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, money win.

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<v Speaker 3>Big fan of op shopping, always have been. And you

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<v Speaker 3>know it's short, it's sharp. That's my money win of

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<v Speaker 3>the week. Guys.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you Georgia King. I really relate to that, do

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<v Speaker 2>you No.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's move right along to our Facebook group victoria favorite

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<v Speaker 3>post from the week. What was yours?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So, given I get so much feedback about being

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<v Speaker 2>mean to you, I am actually going to apologize.

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<v Speaker 3>I think I get it too.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm really sorry that I was mean.

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<v Speaker 3>To you and she apparently mean to me.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, we are actually like very close to being

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<v Speaker 2>best friends.

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<v Speaker 3>Because that strange relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>I will adopt you as my smaller sister, as I

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<v Speaker 2>would with everybody in our community. Actually, but given we

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<v Speaker 2>are speaking about community, epic segway from me, I have

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<v Speaker 2>a money win from our friend Melissa, and I actually

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<v Speaker 2>loved this because it was quite tenacious. In addition to

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<v Speaker 2>being an incredible money win, she said she bought her

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<v Speaker 2>first house if by a letter dropped today. She'd been

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<v Speaker 2>actively looking since May this year, which in home loan

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<v Speaker 2>life is actually a really long time because that takes forever,

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<v Speaker 2>but it also feels really disheartening. But she said she

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<v Speaker 2>lost a whole heap of homes and I won't read

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<v Speaker 2>it out because she wrote a very long money win,

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<v Speaker 2>which I obviously read and a lot of people in

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<v Speaker 2>our can comunity read this week. But she said that

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<v Speaker 2>she had dropped a minimum of twenty letters and she

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<v Speaker 2>only got one callback, and it was the house that

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<v Speaker 2>she was actually buying. So she had put a letter

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<v Speaker 2>in somebody's letterbox making an offer, bought a house. She

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<v Speaker 2>saved thirty grand in real estate fees by skipping the middleman,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's in her favorite suburb. It is her perfect

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<v Speaker 2>house in a perfect location. It is one street from

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<v Speaker 2>her sister, two streets from the school and the shops

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<v Speaker 2>and it's in between both of their parents. She said,

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<v Speaker 2>there's so much room for growth and she did it

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<v Speaker 2>all on her own. And I actually love that because

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<v Speaker 2>she got the perfect dream house for her that might

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<v Speaker 2>not have actually been marketed in the first place.

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<v Speaker 3>Well that's it. You never know if you don't ask,

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<v Speaker 3>so hey, pop letters and people's letterboxes.

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<v Speaker 2>Honestly, guys, the worst someone can say is no, and

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<v Speaker 2>no doesn't mean bad. It just means no. They're not

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<v Speaker 2>interested in your offer, they aren't offended by it. So

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<v Speaker 2>I really love that. There was a very cute picture

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<v Speaker 2>of her and I'm assuming her partner popping some champagne.

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<v Speaker 2>I would love to know what your money win from

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<v Speaker 2>the community is this week, because I feel like this

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<v Speaker 2>week had some epic money wins in it.

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<v Speaker 3>This week was amazing, Vie, but it is always amazing.

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<v Speaker 3>My little money win is from Tenaya, who has a

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<v Speaker 3>major money win.

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<v Speaker 2>Not our graphics designer, graphic.

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<v Speaker 3>Designer, the gorgeous also Tenaya. It's a different Tenaya, and

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<v Speaker 3>she's looking gorgeous in the photo that she's added here.

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<v Speaker 3>So she's always wanted a mirror with the lights kind

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<v Speaker 3>of framing it. But she didn't say exactly right. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>but she didn't have the money, and she's not really

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<v Speaker 3>a makeup wearer, which I can relate to. I don't

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<v Speaker 3>really wear it either.

0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:38.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm not gonna lie. Why do you want the makeup mirror?

0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:38.880
<v Speaker 1>Then?

0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:40.280
<v Speaker 2>Okay, this is just me.

0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:41.840
<v Speaker 3>Maybe she just likes the look of it.

0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:45.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, they are really good vibe. Yeah, I'm here

0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:45.559
<v Speaker 2>for it.

0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:48.959
<v Speaker 3>So she found this mirror on her local buyer, sell

0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:51.560
<v Speaker 3>and swap page, which I'm assuming is a Facebook thing

0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:54.120
<v Speaker 3>for twenty dollary dues.

0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:56.760
<v Speaker 2>That is very good. I feel like twenty bucks is

0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.680
<v Speaker 2>like a purchase that you think about quickly but also

0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:02.080
<v Speaker 2>don't feel too much, but at the same time you

0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:04.319
<v Speaker 2>still do have to think is it worth twenty bars?

0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:07.000
<v Speaker 3>Exactly right? Okay, so the reason it was so cheap

0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:09.920
<v Speaker 3>was because there were a few dud light globes in there.

0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:12.520
<v Speaker 3>But she messaged her partner asked if he could take

0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:16.960
<v Speaker 3>a little look because he's an HBAC technician, which comes

0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:21.520
<v Speaker 3>with your handy. Yeah right, so he's like an licensed electrician.

0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:23.920
<v Speaker 3>I guess is what that means. And here we are.

0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:27.560
<v Speaker 3>She's got the beautiful frame in the photo. It fits perfectly,

0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:30.120
<v Speaker 3>and she saved herself four hundred and ninety dollars.

0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:31.360
<v Speaker 2>That's an epic money win.

0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:33.760
<v Speaker 3>It's a huge money win, especially when you it's something

0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:36.000
<v Speaker 3>you really want and you know looks.

0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:38.120
<v Speaker 2>Good, especially when it's so cheap. I feel like I

0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:40.480
<v Speaker 2>love she's on the money for the community where we

0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.240
<v Speaker 2>share all of our money wins and confessions. But it's

0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:45.360
<v Speaker 2>also like, if you're at a point where you want

0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:47.160
<v Speaker 2>to share it with the community, you've probably been telling

0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:49.319
<v Speaker 2>everybody about it as well, just like my drawers, Like

0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:51.880
<v Speaker 2>I've been telling everybody, And I was so close to

0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:53.920
<v Speaker 2>posting it in the Facebook group, and I'm probably still

0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:55.520
<v Speaker 2>going to post it in the Facebook group. I just

0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:57.520
<v Speaker 2>wanted to tear it first on the pod.

0:11:57.400 --> 0:11:59.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I was just thinking with that mirror. We

0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:01.480
<v Speaker 3>actually have one those in the pod studio, don't we.

0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:03.520
<v Speaker 2>We actually do the pod studio that this week we

0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:05.520
<v Speaker 2>locked ourselves out of. Thanks for reminding us.

0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:09.480
<v Speaker 3>Let's move on to today's main topic, NAVI. One of

0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.480
<v Speaker 3>the most common celebrations we have in our community is

0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.040
<v Speaker 3>when people shut down their after pay or zip pay accounts.

0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:17.400
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I love that for them. I'd also really like

0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.640
<v Speaker 2>it on record that I've never told anybody in the

0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:23.440
<v Speaker 2>history of ever to shut their after pay or their

0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:26.560
<v Speaker 2>zip pay accounts. I think you guys have just like

0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:28.960
<v Speaker 2>kind of read between the lines and decided it wasn't

0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.079
<v Speaker 2>a good idea for you, and just you even saying it. Yeah,

0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:34.600
<v Speaker 2>I literally haven't, and I just really felt like it's

0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:36.319
<v Speaker 2>not necessary for that to be on the record. But

0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:38.640
<v Speaker 2>I never gave that advice. I never said go and

0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:41.360
<v Speaker 2>shut your after pay accounts. But I did say was

0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:45.040
<v Speaker 2>maybe reconsider it if it's not something that actually helps you. Yeah,

0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.240
<v Speaker 2>And I'm really glad that you guys are making decisions

0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:50.120
<v Speaker 2>that work for you. I don't know, it's not obviously

0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:52.520
<v Speaker 2>essential for me to disclaimer it, but at the end

0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:54.400
<v Speaker 2>of the day, like, I really love that you guys

0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:58.040
<v Speaker 2>are so passionate about shutting it down because the research

0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:00.600
<v Speaker 2>that I'm sure you're about to read out order because

0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.120
<v Speaker 2>you always come prepared and I just kind of free

0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:06.560
<v Speaker 2>range zip Pay. Did you know that they made sixty

0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:10.920
<v Speaker 2>percent of their revenue from consumers, almost all being account fees.

0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:14.240
<v Speaker 3>What does that as in people that haven't paid on time?

0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:18.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Oh, well, account fees for having zip pay, because

0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.160
<v Speaker 2>they've got fees for having for pay accountants. Yeah, but

0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:23.920
<v Speaker 2>on top of that, you know, they're a product that

0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:27.120
<v Speaker 2>charges the retailer, so you would think that maybe they'd

0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.360
<v Speaker 2>make their money from the retailer, when they don't. They

0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:30.240
<v Speaker 2>make it from you guys.

0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:32.360
<v Speaker 3>They double it. Do they make anything from the retailer?

0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:34.280
<v Speaker 2>Do you know after pay has a percentage that they

0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.439
<v Speaker 2>charged the retailer, which is all hush hush. It's very

0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:40.199
<v Speaker 2>hard to find unless you are an after pay merchant,

0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:43.040
<v Speaker 2>in which case you can actually find that information. But

0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:47.280
<v Speaker 2>it's not easily available, which is crazy. And I just yeah, anyway,

0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:48.720
<v Speaker 2>I will let you get on with it before I

0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:50.720
<v Speaker 2>still or your statistics.

0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:53.320
<v Speaker 3>Find that interesting because I guess the retailers would have

0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:56.240
<v Speaker 3>the benefit of people who may not have already been

0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:58.920
<v Speaker 3>buying their products buying them because now they can use

0:13:58.960 --> 0:13:59.360
<v Speaker 3>after pay.

0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.400
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely absolutely, and that's kind of like the draw card

0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:03.760
<v Speaker 2>of after pay for a retailer.

0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:04.000
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:06.640
<v Speaker 2>So, say I have a small business and I sell candles.

0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:09.959
<v Speaker 2>The reason I would get after pay is because people

0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.439
<v Speaker 2>are more likely to purchase from me and purchase a candle.

0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:15.840
<v Speaker 2>And the reason it's beneficial to me as a small

0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:18.439
<v Speaker 2>business is because cash flow is king, right, Like that

0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:20.240
<v Speaker 2>is the same for you and I like, at the

0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:22.840
<v Speaker 2>end of the day, the best outcome is having the

0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.880
<v Speaker 2>maximum amount of money that we can possibly earn going

0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:28.720
<v Speaker 2>into our bank account with not that many fees, I ate,

0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:30.400
<v Speaker 2>not that many things in our budget that we have

0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:33.240
<v Speaker 2>to you know, outlay. So the draw card with after

0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:36.480
<v Speaker 2>pay is you pay them a nominal amount, which is

0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:40.440
<v Speaker 2>usually a percentage of your candle. So say you pay

0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:44.040
<v Speaker 2>thirty bucks and you're paying after pay four dollars. It

0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:47.880
<v Speaker 2>means you get paid immediately. So the retailer or my

0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.080
<v Speaker 2>candle business gets that full thirty dollars at the beginning,

0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.560
<v Speaker 2>and then after pay they chase the debt for that client.

0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:57.360
<v Speaker 2>So it's putting the risk on them, and you pay

0:14:57.400 --> 0:14:59.720
<v Speaker 2>for that privilege, which is great because you have cash

0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.880
<v Speaker 2>flow for your business. But then as a consumer, if

0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:06.280
<v Speaker 2>you then over commit, the risk is enough to pay,

0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:08.400
<v Speaker 2>which is why they have late fees and stuff like that,

0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:10.200
<v Speaker 2>because they need to manage their risk.

0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:13.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, okay, we will get into that because I'm no, no, no,

0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:15.720
<v Speaker 3>that was good. And so it sounds like the retailer

0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.720
<v Speaker 3>wins after pay wins slash by now pay later schemes win,

0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:22.640
<v Speaker 3>but the consumer doesn't. Necessarily win anyway, we will get

0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:26.280
<v Speaker 3>back to that. Staggeringly, the number of buy now Pay

0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:29.480
<v Speaker 3>Later transactions increased from sixteen point eight million in the

0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:33.800
<v Speaker 3>twenty seventeen to twenty eighteen financial year to thirty two

0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:37.120
<v Speaker 3>million the following year, which is an increase of ninety percent.

0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:40.440
<v Speaker 3>It's basically double. So these companies are moving from strength

0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:42.840
<v Speaker 3>to strength. And the kicker is that they don't have

0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.960
<v Speaker 3>to operate within the same regulations that credit card companies

0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:49.040
<v Speaker 3>adhere to, which means they have no legal obligation to

0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:52.120
<v Speaker 3>make sure that people using their services can actually afford

0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:56.360
<v Speaker 3>to use those services. Victoria, you always say that nor

0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:58.080
<v Speaker 3>one plans to go into debt, and you also did

0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.320
<v Speaker 3>a whole show in season one after pay but I

0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:03.800
<v Speaker 3>was hoping as a little recap to start us off,

0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:05.840
<v Speaker 3>you could talk us through what the deal is with

0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.680
<v Speaker 3>buy now, Pay later providers, including how they work and

0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:09.680
<v Speaker 3>what your take is on them.

0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:12.240
<v Speaker 2>So most of you guys are going to be across

0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:15.040
<v Speaker 2>by now pay later schemes because we talk about them

0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.720
<v Speaker 2>all the time. But for any of you who don't

0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:20.360
<v Speaker 2>know what they are, just want some more clarification, don't

0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:22.840
<v Speaker 2>quite get it because they are quite complex when you

0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.440
<v Speaker 2>start looking under the hood. A buy now, pay later

0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.400
<v Speaker 2>scheme generally allows you to have your purchase now and

0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.560
<v Speaker 2>pay for incrementally over a set period of time. It's

0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.240
<v Speaker 2>quite helpful in this way because instead of forking out

0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:37.600
<v Speaker 2>two hundred bucks for something in one go, you only

0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:39.520
<v Speaker 2>have to put up with fifty dollars and then you

0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.520
<v Speaker 2>can pay for the rest off over time. Now, Georgia,

0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.800
<v Speaker 2>I was actually talking to you before this episode about

0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:49.520
<v Speaker 2>how this isn't actually a new concept, so it might

0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.360
<v Speaker 2>feel quite new because after pay is relatively new to

0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:54.800
<v Speaker 2>the market. But I would like to just refresh your

0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:58.880
<v Speaker 2>memories on our friend Jerry Harvey, who haven't own Harvey Norman,

0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:01.880
<v Speaker 2>And I bet my dollar that you guys remember your

0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:06.680
<v Speaker 2>parents or someone that you know purchasing a furniture package

0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:09.119
<v Speaker 2>or a fridge, or a brand new TV or a

0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:13.040
<v Speaker 2>kitchen age on his twenty four month interest free payment

0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:15.000
<v Speaker 2>scheme where you got to take home that day and

0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:17.560
<v Speaker 2>then pay it off, and he charged you an exorbitant

0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.240
<v Speaker 2>amount of interest if you one didn't meet the payments

0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:22.800
<v Speaker 2>or two went over the amount of time that the

0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:26.200
<v Speaker 2>loan was four. Now, that was established by a company

0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:29.359
<v Speaker 2>called Latitude Financial Services, which you guys would probably see

0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:31.680
<v Speaker 2>a lot about in the media at the moment because

0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:34.600
<v Speaker 2>they have become quite large. But I just really wanted

0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:36.280
<v Speaker 2>to bring that up because I was also having a

0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:39.400
<v Speaker 2>chat with my really good friend David, who I will

0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:41.720
<v Speaker 2>probably tell you about in a couple of episodes because

0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.040
<v Speaker 2>he's business He's going to partner with us soon and

0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.919
<v Speaker 2>I'm incredibly excited. But we're having this chat and it

0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:50.560
<v Speaker 2>just really annoyed me that everybody thinks that it's so

0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.359
<v Speaker 2>brand new, but there have been people out there taking

0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:56.800
<v Speaker 2>advantage of us for longer than we actually comprehended. So

0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:00.280
<v Speaker 2>regardless of all of this, the appeal is to make

0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:03.359
<v Speaker 2>it incredibly dangerous, and it can become quite addictive to

0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:06.120
<v Speaker 2>buy things. So it leaves us in a position where

0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:08.560
<v Speaker 2>we are paying for things that we either can't afford

0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:10.400
<v Speaker 2>to pay back or we're not able to pay back

0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.399
<v Speaker 2>over the longer term. Because during that period of time,

0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:15.760
<v Speaker 2>while we might think, oh, yeah, I'll have fifty dollars

0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.160
<v Speaker 2>next month to make that payment, we don't think about

0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:21.040
<v Speaker 2>that payment again and pre commit that money to something else,

0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:23.080
<v Speaker 2>whether that is going out for drinks with our friends

0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:27.200
<v Speaker 2>or buying another outfit, or buying a TV from Harvey Norman,

0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.600
<v Speaker 2>we find ourselves in a position where often paying it

0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:33.960
<v Speaker 2>back is actually harder than we first anticipate it. That,

0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:37.080
<v Speaker 2>of course lands us in a seat of late fees

0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:40.000
<v Speaker 2>and fun fact, actually they're not all fun. After Pay

0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:44.560
<v Speaker 2>charge their customers a total of forty six million dollars

0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:48.520
<v Speaker 2>in late fees in twenty nineteen, which gives you some

0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:53.000
<v Speaker 2>indication of how problematic these providers are for so many people.

0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:55.560
<v Speaker 2>This is also the reason why I think that there

0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:58.480
<v Speaker 2>should be regulation around these things, and we're going to

0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.080
<v Speaker 2>get into that quite surely. In terms of what my

0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:05.800
<v Speaker 2>personal take is, I think genuinely that if you are

0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:09.960
<v Speaker 2>using these services, probably they can probably work really well

0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:13.400
<v Speaker 2>for people. I think for a majority of people, especially

0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:15.760
<v Speaker 2>in our community. Now, I feel like I really know

0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:19.120
<v Speaker 2>you guys, it's probably smarter to save your money first,

0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:22.000
<v Speaker 2>work it into your budget, and then make that purchase.

0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.080
<v Speaker 2>But in saying that, I know there are going to

0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:27.200
<v Speaker 2>be some people listening to this episode that go Victoria,

0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:29.520
<v Speaker 2>I've been using after pay for ages and it's a

0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:32.200
<v Speaker 2>really great tool for my cash flow in that case,

0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:36.080
<v Speaker 2>fantastic for you, but it is really still important to

0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:39.000
<v Speaker 2>be aware of the traps that these schemes can actually

0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:39.760
<v Speaker 2>lead us down.

0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:43.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and they do tend to lead the majority down

0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:46.760
<v Speaker 3>those paths. As we will get to Victoria. You did

0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:49.280
<v Speaker 3>just say it, but you do think that by now

0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:50.720
<v Speaker 3>pay later schemes should be regulated.

0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:51.320
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely.

0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:51.520
<v Speaker 3>I do.

0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:55.439
<v Speaker 2>Credit cards have to do work around mandated responsible lending criteria.

0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.320
<v Speaker 2>They can't just actually approve anyone for a credit card.

0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:01.280
<v Speaker 2>Historically they could, though they're no longer allowed to do

0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:05.200
<v Speaker 2>that though. ASEK, which is the Australian Securities Investment Commission,

0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:09.040
<v Speaker 2>licenses and regulates banks, credit unions and brokers to make

0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:11.240
<v Speaker 2>sure they don't allow you to access credit if you

0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:13.679
<v Speaker 2>actually can't afford to pay it back. And this is

0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:16.880
<v Speaker 2>a really important piece because at the end of the day,

0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:20.399
<v Speaker 2>if you're not mandated, like where are the rules, it

0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:22.520
<v Speaker 2>kind of becomes the wild West. And I just don't

0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:25.439
<v Speaker 2>think that that's fair on people because I'm assuming that

0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:27.920
<v Speaker 2>for most people who sign up to after pay, they

0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:32.040
<v Speaker 2>just assume that these companies, and I keep saying after pay,

0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:34.760
<v Speaker 2>it's because it's the biggest one. There's after pay, this pay,

0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:37.240
<v Speaker 2>there's open pay, there's so many different types of pay.

0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:40.480
<v Speaker 2>There's a new one called Klana. Like there are so many,

0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:42.960
<v Speaker 2>they have different branding. They all say that they're putting

0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:46.160
<v Speaker 2>us first, but none of them, Georgia, are putting us

0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:49.520
<v Speaker 2>in a position where we are having our credit scores checked,

0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:52.159
<v Speaker 2>where we are being referenced and making sure that we

0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:55.320
<v Speaker 2>can pay it back. For some of us, we genuinely

0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:58.080
<v Speaker 2>don't have the financial literacy to be in a position

0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:00.680
<v Speaker 2>where we say this isn't the right prodit such for us.

0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:03.520
<v Speaker 2>We assume that because we are in Australia and the

0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:05.679
<v Speaker 2>most Australian thing in the entire world is to have

0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:09.520
<v Speaker 2>each other's back, right, we just assume that everyone will

0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:13.040
<v Speaker 2>And that's sadly not the case. So although by now

0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:15.800
<v Speaker 2>pay later schemes are wrapped up a little bit differently,

0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:18.919
<v Speaker 2>they really are just another form of credit and a

0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:22.560
<v Speaker 2>very very easy way of sliding into completely unplanned debt

0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:25.560
<v Speaker 2>the moment, these guys can literally do whatever they want.

0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:28.600
<v Speaker 2>As I called them before, it's the wild West, which

0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:32.919
<v Speaker 2>in my opinion is pretty unfair. And as I said before,

0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:36.560
<v Speaker 2>not everyone has a good enough financial education to understand

0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:38.800
<v Speaker 2>whether this is helping them or hindering them.

0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:41.800
<v Speaker 3>Well, that's the thing like, with the way they market themselves,

0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:44.359
<v Speaker 3>You're not silly for thinking that they are helping you

0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:46.080
<v Speaker 3>out because that's what they want you to think.

0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:50.199
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, and it's really sad. But a Center inquiry in

0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:53.520
<v Speaker 2>early September this year surmise that by now pay later

0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:56.520
<v Speaker 2>platforms can self regulate and don't need to be mandated

0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:59.960
<v Speaker 2>to do so. So lots of consumer groups are arguing

0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:03.639
<v Speaker 2>justified in being worried about this, And I'm worried about this,

0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:06.760
<v Speaker 2>and I definitely think it's a really big issue for Australians,

0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:11.560
<v Speaker 2>particularly the younger generation, particularly the younger generations of Australians

0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:15.600
<v Speaker 2>who are actually responsible for sixty one percent of all

0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:18.640
<v Speaker 2>buy now, pay later transactions, and they're also the ones

0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:20.960
<v Speaker 2>who are missing the most payments and racking up those

0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:21.719
<v Speaker 2>late fees.

0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:24.359
<v Speaker 3>And what is a young person? What is class as

0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:24.960
<v Speaker 3>a young person?

0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:27.480
<v Speaker 2>It is someone under the edge of thirty five. But

0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:29.280
<v Speaker 2>I didn't really want to say that because if you're

0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:31.400
<v Speaker 2>listening to this and you are older than thirty five,

0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:33.320
<v Speaker 2>like you're still young and heart my friends.

0:22:33.400 --> 0:22:37.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Now there is like a little bit of light

0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:40.000
<v Speaker 3>at the end of the bud, is there? Tunnel world?

0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:43.800
<v Speaker 3>Sort So ASEX said in this report that the previously

0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:47.240
<v Speaker 3>announced regulatory changes will come into effect in October of

0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:49.640
<v Speaker 3>next year. Can you talk us through what will likely

0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:50.080
<v Speaker 3>be happening.

0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:52.720
<v Speaker 2>So, yes, a few changes are going to go ahead,

0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:55.840
<v Speaker 2>but again I'm quite opinionated, as you guys know, and

0:22:55.960 --> 0:22:58.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't believe it's quite enough. So buy now, pay

0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:03.960
<v Speaker 2>later schemes sorry, buy now, pay later. Providers will need

0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:06.960
<v Speaker 2>to identify in advance what types of consumers their products

0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:09.720
<v Speaker 2>are suitable for. So they are to quote Georgia King

0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:13.480
<v Speaker 2>direct distribution to that demographic, which essentially means they are

0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:16.960
<v Speaker 2>only to directly market to those demographics. But I would

0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:19.240
<v Speaker 2>argue that that's kind of up in the air, like

0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:22.439
<v Speaker 2>how do you directly market to someone who's over the

0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:26.919
<v Speaker 2>age of thirty five not thirty four? So I don't know.

0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:29.240
<v Speaker 2>But they're also going to be in a position where

0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:31.560
<v Speaker 2>they need to consider the proportion of late fees that

0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:34.439
<v Speaker 2>they're dishing out and review and change the design or

0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:37.480
<v Speaker 2>the distribution of their product so that people aren't slugged

0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:40.880
<v Speaker 2>with too many payments they actually can't meet. Now, let's

0:23:40.880 --> 0:23:45.160
<v Speaker 2>be honest, this is better than nothing, but again quite opinionated.

0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:46.040
<v Speaker 2>It's not enough.

0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:48.600
<v Speaker 3>When I was reading the there was something about a

0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:51.200
<v Speaker 3>code of conduct in there. Can you expand on that

0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:51.520
<v Speaker 3>a little?

0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:54.000
<v Speaker 2>Yes? So the buy now, pay later industry is in

0:23:54.040 --> 0:23:56.680
<v Speaker 2>the process of writing a code of conduct. But self

0:23:56.720 --> 0:24:00.360
<v Speaker 2>regulation isn't ideal either, as it won't cover all by now,

0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:03.119
<v Speaker 2>pay later players but the ones who follow it, so

0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:06.000
<v Speaker 2>it's kind of a choice. There are lots and lots

0:24:06.000 --> 0:24:08.880
<v Speaker 2>of new buy now, pay later providers popping up literally

0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:12.200
<v Speaker 2>every week, but what they're proposing at this stage only

0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:15.680
<v Speaker 2>covers a total of eight businesses, and we don't yet

0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:17.159
<v Speaker 2>know what that code even looks like.

0:24:17.320 --> 0:24:21.560
<v Speaker 3>Hmm okay. I read as well that a massive number

0:24:21.600 --> 0:24:24.199
<v Speaker 3>of Australians are taking out loans to meet what they

0:24:24.320 --> 0:24:27.040
<v Speaker 3>owe after paid, to avoid those late fees stacking up.

0:24:27.240 --> 0:24:29.439
<v Speaker 3>Would you say that's a good idea or just bad news?

0:24:29.760 --> 0:24:30.000
<v Speaker 1>Look?

0:24:30.080 --> 0:24:32.200
<v Speaker 2>I think it's bad news because it means these buy now,

0:24:32.240 --> 0:24:34.600
<v Speaker 2>pay later schemes are actually getting people into debt that

0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:36.880
<v Speaker 2>they can't service. And if you're in a position where

0:24:36.920 --> 0:24:39.280
<v Speaker 2>you need to then reach out and get a personal

0:24:39.320 --> 0:24:41.480
<v Speaker 2>loan and take on an interest rate on a loan,

0:24:41.600 --> 0:24:44.520
<v Speaker 2>it means that you're clearly not making the payments for

0:24:44.680 --> 0:24:47.600
<v Speaker 2>your buy now, pay later scheme. So for me, I

0:24:47.640 --> 0:24:50.400
<v Speaker 2>think that's a really terrible thing. But at the same time,

0:24:50.560 --> 0:24:53.040
<v Speaker 2>if you feel like you are drowning in by now

0:24:53.119 --> 0:24:56.159
<v Speaker 2>pay later debt, it is probably a very good idea

0:24:56.240 --> 0:24:58.959
<v Speaker 2>to reach out to someone to consolidate a debt so

0:24:59.000 --> 0:25:01.520
<v Speaker 2>that you're not paying les fee after late fee and

0:25:01.560 --> 0:25:03.200
<v Speaker 2>you actually deal with it properly.

0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:05.679
<v Speaker 3>It is worrying that that is even a thing that

0:25:05.680 --> 0:25:07.120
<v Speaker 3>people have to do, though, right.

0:25:06.960 --> 0:25:10.320
<v Speaker 2>It's insane because arguably lots of these people who do

0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:13.439
<v Speaker 2>get after pay as they pay kinda open pay whatever

0:25:13.480 --> 0:25:16.600
<v Speaker 2>we want to call it, in positions where they probably

0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:18.680
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't have been approved for a credit card in the

0:25:18.720 --> 0:25:19.560
<v Speaker 2>first place.

0:25:19.359 --> 0:25:22.919
<v Speaker 3>Which is why they should be regulated. Okay, so we

0:25:22.960 --> 0:25:27.040
<v Speaker 3>have hypped on about the negative side of which there is, well,

0:25:27.080 --> 0:25:29.120
<v Speaker 3>there's a lot going on in there. But are there

0:25:29.119 --> 0:25:31.719
<v Speaker 3>any redeemable qualities to after pay and other by now

0:25:31.760 --> 0:25:32.680
<v Speaker 3>pay later services?

0:25:32.720 --> 0:25:35.520
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's a good question, and I covered a

0:25:35.520 --> 0:25:37.639
<v Speaker 2>lot of this in our episode in season one, so

0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:39.600
<v Speaker 2>if you want to go back, none of my opinions

0:25:39.600 --> 0:25:43.320
<v Speaker 2>from that have changed. But after Pay has signed up

0:25:43.320 --> 0:25:46.800
<v Speaker 2>to the AFCA, which is the Australian finance complaints authority,

0:25:46.840 --> 0:25:49.520
<v Speaker 2>which is really important, but it's really not enough without

0:25:49.560 --> 0:25:52.320
<v Speaker 2>the rules laid out by the Credit Protections Act, which

0:25:52.320 --> 0:25:55.359
<v Speaker 2>we mentioned earlier. So it's essentially them signing up to

0:25:55.720 --> 0:25:57.560
<v Speaker 2>take on a little bit more authority, but at the

0:25:57.560 --> 0:25:59.720
<v Speaker 2>same time, it's kind of like, well, authority for what,

0:26:00.200 --> 0:26:02.439
<v Speaker 2>there's no rule. This is the wild West, my friends.

0:26:02.920 --> 0:26:05.920
<v Speaker 2>They also don't charge any interest, So if we're trying

0:26:05.960 --> 0:26:07.640
<v Speaker 2>to pull out all of the good things about why

0:26:07.680 --> 0:26:10.600
<v Speaker 2>now pay latest schemes, they actually don't charge any interest,

0:26:10.640 --> 0:26:13.280
<v Speaker 2>which is a great thing if we think about it pragmatically.

0:26:13.520 --> 0:26:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Fees only coming to play if you're late on your payments.

0:26:16.320 --> 0:26:19.000
<v Speaker 2>And I mentioned in season one in our after Pay

0:26:19.040 --> 0:26:22.480
<v Speaker 2>episode that I've actually got a girlfriend who uses these

0:26:22.600 --> 0:26:27.080
<v Speaker 2>systems religiously. So she'll go on the Iconic, for example,

0:26:27.200 --> 0:26:29.879
<v Speaker 2>and order five different dresses that she wants to try on,

0:26:30.000 --> 0:26:32.000
<v Speaker 2>not wing she has something on the weekend that she

0:26:32.040 --> 0:26:35.000
<v Speaker 2>wants to purchase address for. She'll keep one of them

0:26:35.080 --> 0:26:38.119
<v Speaker 2>send full back, and she's only ever been charged, you know,

0:26:38.200 --> 0:26:40.200
<v Speaker 2>fifty bucks to do that. She doesn't get charged to

0:26:40.240 --> 0:26:43.800
<v Speaker 2>the full them out in that situation. Yes, she's using

0:26:43.840 --> 0:26:46.400
<v Speaker 2>it really responsibly. She has an income where she could

0:26:46.400 --> 0:26:48.440
<v Speaker 2>pay that debt if for some reason she didn't send

0:26:48.480 --> 0:26:51.520
<v Speaker 2>her package back, But to me, that's arguably a very

0:26:51.520 --> 0:26:54.679
<v Speaker 2>big risk. But she uses it so that she doesn't

0:26:54.680 --> 0:26:57.080
<v Speaker 2>have like seven hundred dollars going out of her account

0:26:57.440 --> 0:27:00.280
<v Speaker 2>that then arguably needs to be refunded. So for her,

0:27:00.359 --> 0:27:02.480
<v Speaker 2>it's a cash flow tool, and I think it works

0:27:02.520 --> 0:27:05.000
<v Speaker 2>really well for her. But to me, those people are

0:27:05.040 --> 0:27:08.680
<v Speaker 2>so few and far between, and I haven't asked her recently,

0:27:08.720 --> 0:27:10.320
<v Speaker 2>but I'm not sure if it's caught up with her

0:27:10.640 --> 0:27:13.680
<v Speaker 2>at any stage or made her do any impulse purchases.

0:27:14.400 --> 0:27:17.160
<v Speaker 2>Another thing that I will say is that these providers

0:27:17.200 --> 0:27:20.879
<v Speaker 2>can genuinely be a really good short term solution for

0:27:20.960 --> 0:27:24.040
<v Speaker 2>those in need. So I've spoken about it again on

0:27:24.080 --> 0:27:28.560
<v Speaker 2>the other podcast, But sometimes people genuinely need these for

0:27:28.640 --> 0:27:33.040
<v Speaker 2>medical services that they couldn't have otherwise accessed, dental appointments,

0:27:33.359 --> 0:27:36.120
<v Speaker 2>things for their children, in which case I think it's

0:27:36.119 --> 0:27:39.080
<v Speaker 2>a fantastic service if you just don't have the cash flow.

0:27:39.359 --> 0:27:42.119
<v Speaker 2>So I remember after that first episode, a number of

0:27:42.160 --> 0:27:44.080
<v Speaker 2>people reached out to me and said, look, I'm on

0:27:44.119 --> 0:27:46.440
<v Speaker 2>Centrelink and I didn't have the cash, but I needed

0:27:46.480 --> 0:27:48.000
<v Speaker 2>to buy my daughter school shoes.

0:27:48.480 --> 0:27:49.639
<v Speaker 3>You do you like?

0:27:49.800 --> 0:27:52.840
<v Speaker 2>I genuinely think that if you are using it responsibly

0:27:53.080 --> 0:27:55.320
<v Speaker 2>and using it as a budget tool, this could be

0:27:55.359 --> 0:27:58.480
<v Speaker 2>a really great addition. But at the end of the day,

0:27:58.920 --> 0:28:01.320
<v Speaker 2>you're seeing the amount of debt people are going into,

0:28:01.440 --> 0:28:04.280
<v Speaker 2>the amount of late fees. That tells me that not

0:28:04.400 --> 0:28:07.479
<v Speaker 2>everybody is as responsible as the people that message us

0:28:07.480 --> 0:28:09.880
<v Speaker 2>and tell us that they are using her responsibly.

0:28:10.119 --> 0:28:12.840
<v Speaker 3>Well, that's exactly right, and that's what the stats that

0:28:12.880 --> 0:28:15.119
<v Speaker 3>we've gone through today show us. That a lot of

0:28:15.160 --> 0:28:18.000
<v Speaker 3>people aren't using these responsibly, and that's something that we

0:28:18.080 --> 0:28:19.960
<v Speaker 3>really need to call out and that after pay aren't

0:28:20.000 --> 0:28:21.880
<v Speaker 3>going to be slapping on their billboards.

0:28:22.040 --> 0:28:23.919
<v Speaker 2>You know, absolutely yeah.

0:28:24.160 --> 0:28:27.280
<v Speaker 3>So my next question here, b is what you would

0:28:27.280 --> 0:28:30.479
<v Speaker 3>say the role of credit cards within this conversation is,

0:28:30.960 --> 0:28:33.959
<v Speaker 3>I know, to add a little competition into this field.

0:28:34.040 --> 0:28:37.800
<v Speaker 3>Many banks have actually introduced no interest credit cards. So

0:28:37.960 --> 0:28:40.560
<v Speaker 3>is that a better option for our listeners should they

0:28:40.600 --> 0:28:41.840
<v Speaker 3>go down that route?

0:28:41.960 --> 0:28:44.240
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you probably should do my budget and cashlow

0:28:44.240 --> 0:28:48.080
<v Speaker 2>masterclass and never need anything again, but that's beside the point.

0:28:48.400 --> 0:28:50.640
<v Speaker 2>So as an alternative to have to pay and other

0:28:50.680 --> 0:28:53.240
<v Speaker 2>buy now, pay later providers, some of the big banks

0:28:53.280 --> 0:28:55.959
<v Speaker 2>now do actually offer interest free credit cards, and they

0:28:56.080 --> 0:28:58.960
<v Speaker 2>charge a monthly fee instead, which varies depending on the

0:28:58.960 --> 0:29:01.680
<v Speaker 2>balance that you have on the car. So NAB, for example,

0:29:01.840 --> 0:29:03.920
<v Speaker 2>have a thousand dollar credit limit, and you pay thirty

0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:06.520
<v Speaker 2>five dollars a month with a ten dollar monthly fee

0:29:06.560 --> 0:29:09.320
<v Speaker 2>on your balance, and say you had two thousand dollars

0:29:09.360 --> 0:29:11.440
<v Speaker 2>on there, you would pay a minimum seventy five dollars

0:29:11.480 --> 0:29:14.480
<v Speaker 2>a month with a fifteen dollar monthly fee included in

0:29:14.520 --> 0:29:16.840
<v Speaker 2>your balance. And then for three thousand dollars, for example,

0:29:17.080 --> 0:29:19.320
<v Speaker 2>you'd be paying one hundred and ten dollars a month

0:29:19.320 --> 0:29:23.040
<v Speaker 2>with a twenty dollar fee included your balance. So similarly

0:29:23.160 --> 0:29:26.200
<v Speaker 2>to a buy now, pay later program, let's call it

0:29:26.240 --> 0:29:28.640
<v Speaker 2>a program. I keep calling it a scheme because it's

0:29:28.960 --> 0:29:32.080
<v Speaker 2>a scam, a scam, but it's not a scam, my friends.

0:29:32.480 --> 0:29:34.960
<v Speaker 2>But you won't be charged anything if you pay what

0:29:35.040 --> 0:29:38.600
<v Speaker 2>you o off. The difference is that these cards can

0:29:38.680 --> 0:29:41.720
<v Speaker 2>be used wherever a MasterCard or Visa is accepted, so

0:29:41.760 --> 0:29:44.800
<v Speaker 2>they essentially give you access to a wider range of retailers,

0:29:45.200 --> 0:29:47.920
<v Speaker 2>and they also have a continuous line of credit, which

0:29:47.960 --> 0:29:51.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm not gonna lie is terrifying to me. Look we

0:29:51.560 --> 0:29:53.720
<v Speaker 2>all know how big the big banks are, Like, I'll

0:29:53.720 --> 0:29:56.520
<v Speaker 2>give you a hot tip, they're huge. So they cool

0:29:56.680 --> 0:30:00.400
<v Speaker 2>quite seriously enter the buy now, pay later area if

0:30:00.440 --> 0:30:02.640
<v Speaker 2>they really wanted to, Let's be honest, and they could

0:30:02.760 --> 0:30:05.360
<v Speaker 2>walk all over the current providers who have the edge

0:30:05.400 --> 0:30:08.280
<v Speaker 2>on being the first ones to do it. But banks

0:30:08.320 --> 0:30:11.600
<v Speaker 2>have arguably an unparalleled access to finance in a way

0:30:11.600 --> 0:30:14.880
<v Speaker 2>that After Pay and like just can't beat. So it

0:30:14.880 --> 0:30:16.760
<v Speaker 2>would be interesting to see what they do in that

0:30:16.840 --> 0:30:19.440
<v Speaker 2>space and how over the next few years they're planning

0:30:19.480 --> 0:30:22.840
<v Speaker 2>on competing with them, because I know they arguably would

0:30:22.880 --> 0:30:26.080
<v Speaker 2>be having these conversations internally because it would be really

0:30:26.120 --> 0:30:28.160
<v Speaker 2>silly not to. I don't know if you guys saw

0:30:28.160 --> 0:30:31.240
<v Speaker 2>the after pay share price skyrocket this year, what.

0:30:31.160 --> 0:30:31.680
<v Speaker 3>Are we talking?

0:30:31.920 --> 0:30:35.160
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so if we talk about it, I think that

0:30:35.240 --> 0:30:38.560
<v Speaker 2>they peaked in a like late February at maybe like

0:30:38.760 --> 0:30:42.760
<v Speaker 2>nearly forty dollars a share, and then in March, which

0:30:42.800 --> 0:30:44.959
<v Speaker 2>is when a lot of people started buying them, there

0:30:45.040 --> 0:30:47.080
<v Speaker 2>was like a little bit of hype around them, they

0:30:47.160 --> 0:30:50.120
<v Speaker 2>dropped to eight dollars ninety a share ish, Like I'm

0:30:50.160 --> 0:30:52.280
<v Speaker 2>sure it went lower, but that's just my memory of it,

0:30:52.720 --> 0:30:56.280
<v Speaker 2>and now Georgia, they're up to close to one hundred dollars, Like,

0:30:56.320 --> 0:30:57.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if they are a hundred dollars today,

0:30:57.920 --> 0:31:00.600
<v Speaker 2>but I guarantee it would be around that. So they

0:31:00.680 --> 0:31:03.880
<v Speaker 2>absolutely have shot up. But the reason they've shot up

0:31:03.920 --> 0:31:06.240
<v Speaker 2>is because they're being profitable. And can we please remember

0:31:06.680 --> 0:31:09.600
<v Speaker 2>how they're being profitable, guys, it's from your late fees.

0:31:09.840 --> 0:31:15.320
<v Speaker 3>Ah, this actually makes me so angry. That is ridiculous,

0:31:15.440 --> 0:31:18.280
<v Speaker 3>and I hate that that profit does come to the

0:31:18.320 --> 0:31:22.040
<v Speaker 3>detriment of consumers exactly.

0:31:21.560 --> 0:31:24.080
<v Speaker 2>And most of the consumers are people like you, guys

0:31:24.120 --> 0:31:26.960
<v Speaker 2>in our community. So it feels like our job to

0:31:26.960 --> 0:31:30.120
<v Speaker 2>share this information with you. If you decide to continue

0:31:30.120 --> 0:31:33.400
<v Speaker 2>to use these things, that's fine. I actually just want

0:31:33.400 --> 0:31:35.400
<v Speaker 2>to put you, guys in a position where you're making

0:31:35.640 --> 0:31:38.520
<v Speaker 2>educated decisions, like there's no right or wrong when it

0:31:38.560 --> 0:31:40.640
<v Speaker 2>comes to money, and I think that that is so

0:31:40.960 --> 0:31:44.760
<v Speaker 2>important to remember because you do you like that is

0:31:44.840 --> 0:31:47.960
<v Speaker 2>so fair. Your values might not be my values, but

0:31:48.040 --> 0:31:50.520
<v Speaker 2>my values are putting you in a position where you're

0:31:50.520 --> 0:31:53.200
<v Speaker 2>making an educated decision. And if you want to, just

0:31:53.320 --> 0:31:55.640
<v Speaker 2>like one of my girlfriends, continue to use after pay

0:31:55.720 --> 0:31:58.960
<v Speaker 2>because it makes sense to you, then fantastic. That company

0:31:59.040 --> 0:32:01.280
<v Speaker 2>is doing great things for you. But if you were

0:32:01.360 --> 0:32:04.920
<v Speaker 2>finding that those payments are spiraling you out of control

0:32:05.040 --> 0:32:08.880
<v Speaker 2>and making you make really big impulse decisions and putting

0:32:08.920 --> 0:32:11.160
<v Speaker 2>you in a position where you are not confident with

0:32:11.200 --> 0:32:14.040
<v Speaker 2>your money, then maybe you really need to think about

0:32:14.240 --> 0:32:16.200
<v Speaker 2>whether they are the right product for you.

0:32:16.480 --> 0:32:18.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and that's exactly right. We want you, guys to

0:32:18.480 --> 0:32:22.120
<v Speaker 3>be as educated as possible. That's what our platform is for,

0:32:22.200 --> 0:32:24.240
<v Speaker 3>so there's never any judgment in anything we say.

0:32:24.400 --> 0:32:25.120
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely not.

0:32:25.680 --> 0:32:28.480
<v Speaker 3>It's just us putting it out there and making sure

0:32:28.560 --> 0:32:31.840
<v Speaker 3>it's as unbiased and true to what is the reality

0:32:31.880 --> 0:32:32.440
<v Speaker 3>as possible.

0:32:32.480 --> 0:32:35.240
<v Speaker 2>I guess absolutely, even though I seem to lack the

0:32:35.280 --> 0:32:38.320
<v Speaker 2>ability to be non biased. But that is beside the point,

0:32:38.400 --> 0:32:38.959
<v Speaker 2>my friends.

0:32:39.720 --> 0:32:42.320
<v Speaker 3>The other thing I wanted to ask V was about

0:32:42.720 --> 0:32:46.120
<v Speaker 3>a couple of articles I read in by now Pay

0:32:46.160 --> 0:32:51.360
<v Speaker 3>Later Schemes providers services like after pay as founders talking

0:32:51.400 --> 0:32:54.000
<v Speaker 3>about how the lack of regulation is a good thing

0:32:54.040 --> 0:32:56.120
<v Speaker 3>for them because it allows them to continue to be

0:32:56.240 --> 0:32:58.400
<v Speaker 3>innovative and like their leaders in the space, and they

0:32:58.400 --> 0:33:02.840
<v Speaker 3>were painting it in this real amazing, empowering, like business

0:33:02.840 --> 0:33:06.280
<v Speaker 3>savvy way. I was just like, Oh, this feels dodgy.

0:33:06.760 --> 0:33:07.560
<v Speaker 3>What's your take on that.

0:33:08.080 --> 0:33:11.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm not gonna lie. I have epic amounts of respect

0:33:11.160 --> 0:33:13.720
<v Speaker 2>for the after pay company. They have come from nothing

0:33:13.800 --> 0:33:18.240
<v Speaker 2>and made an epic splash. They are not doing arguably

0:33:18.280 --> 0:33:20.640
<v Speaker 2>the wrong thing. It is just the way that we

0:33:20.720 --> 0:33:23.520
<v Speaker 2>are starting to use them and essentially take advantage of

0:33:23.560 --> 0:33:26.560
<v Speaker 2>them in a way. So for me, yes, they can

0:33:26.640 --> 0:33:29.560
<v Speaker 2>be more innovative, and that's fantastic for them, and it

0:33:29.640 --> 0:33:32.760
<v Speaker 2>is really great. But I would then argue, where does

0:33:32.800 --> 0:33:36.080
<v Speaker 2>ethics come to play in this? How does ethics actually

0:33:36.120 --> 0:33:39.800
<v Speaker 2>play into the financial services space? What does that mean?

0:33:39.920 --> 0:33:42.560
<v Speaker 2>How does that work? And you know, we shouldn't be

0:33:42.600 --> 0:33:46.480
<v Speaker 2>putting our personal ethical opinions on things, but like, what's

0:33:46.520 --> 0:33:49.680
<v Speaker 2>the baseline of ethics? Like the medical industry has a

0:33:49.680 --> 0:33:53.200
<v Speaker 2>code of ethics, we don't have that for them. Why

0:33:53.360 --> 0:33:56.040
<v Speaker 2>why can't they abide by the same legislation that I

0:33:56.160 --> 0:33:58.640
<v Speaker 2>need to abide by as a financial.

0:33:58.160 --> 0:34:01.200
<v Speaker 3>Advisor exactly the credit card companies have to do it,

0:34:01.280 --> 0:34:04.640
<v Speaker 3>so why not them? I think it speaks to a

0:34:04.720 --> 0:34:08.120
<v Speaker 3>lack of regard for the needs of the consumer. I

0:34:08.120 --> 0:34:11.000
<v Speaker 3>think it's not good. But you guys are probably picking

0:34:11.080 --> 0:34:14.759
<v Speaker 3>that up anyway. We'll move on here. This is a

0:34:14.760 --> 0:34:17.560
<v Speaker 3>little bit of centavy and I think you did speak

0:34:17.560 --> 0:34:20.520
<v Speaker 3>about this in our first episode on after pay Back

0:34:20.560 --> 0:34:23.440
<v Speaker 3>in season one, But can it actually damage your ability

0:34:23.480 --> 0:34:25.480
<v Speaker 3>to get a loan after pay and other buy now,

0:34:25.560 --> 0:34:27.160
<v Speaker 3>pay later services.

0:34:26.680 --> 0:34:30.200
<v Speaker 2>Look short answer, yes. When I put that first episode out,

0:34:30.200 --> 0:34:33.120
<v Speaker 2>the Royal Commission hadn't wrapped up yet. So since the

0:34:33.200 --> 0:34:37.560
<v Speaker 2>Royal Commission things have changed slightly. They've tightened up significantly,

0:34:37.640 --> 0:34:40.040
<v Speaker 2>and you do hear stories of people being rejected for

0:34:40.080 --> 0:34:42.960
<v Speaker 2>home loans because they have an outstanding Zippay balance, which

0:34:43.000 --> 0:34:46.200
<v Speaker 2>to me is crazy, but it is so worth taking

0:34:46.320 --> 0:34:49.719
<v Speaker 2>note of, even those providers who don't require a credit check,

0:34:49.880 --> 0:34:52.720
<v Speaker 2>and it doesn't impact your credit score for anyone wondering

0:34:52.719 --> 0:34:56.240
<v Speaker 2>about that. Lenders will take buy now, pay later purchases

0:34:56.280 --> 0:34:59.640
<v Speaker 2>into consideration and consider them as a line of credit,

0:34:59.680 --> 0:35:02.680
<v Speaker 2>because like credit cards, you're borrowing money you do not have,

0:35:02.960 --> 0:35:06.080
<v Speaker 2>usually to fund items you do not need, which is

0:35:06.120 --> 0:35:10.520
<v Speaker 2>why they should be regulated. This quite a heated episode,

0:35:10.640 --> 0:35:13.560
<v Speaker 2>it has, and I'm just so wildly heated up about

0:35:13.600 --> 0:35:17.879
<v Speaker 2>this because I genuinely think that so many of us

0:35:18.080 --> 0:35:21.360
<v Speaker 2>using them convince ourselves that, nah, that's not me. I

0:35:21.440 --> 0:35:23.799
<v Speaker 2>won't get out of control. I'll continue to use it

0:35:23.880 --> 0:35:25.880
<v Speaker 2>and then you find yourself in even more trouble.

0:35:27.360 --> 0:35:30.160
<v Speaker 3>Also, the psychology of this fee. I do have one

0:35:30.239 --> 0:35:33.120
<v Speaker 3>last question, but I'm gonna sneak this one in as well.

0:35:33.520 --> 0:35:36.520
<v Speaker 3>More than we are also obsessed with after pay. What

0:35:36.640 --> 0:35:39.000
<v Speaker 3>is it about buying now pay later that really appeals to.

0:35:39.040 --> 0:35:42.640
<v Speaker 2>Us instant gratification versus delayed gratification. I'm gonna ask you

0:35:42.719 --> 0:35:44.400
<v Speaker 2>right now to look that up and put it in

0:35:44.440 --> 0:35:46.880
<v Speaker 2>our newsletter. There's actually the have you heard of the

0:35:46.920 --> 0:35:48.440
<v Speaker 2>marshmallow challenge?

0:35:48.680 --> 0:35:48.919
<v Speaker 3>Yes?

0:35:49.040 --> 0:35:51.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So it's like these tiny children. They put in

0:35:51.160 --> 0:35:53.120
<v Speaker 2>a room with one marshmallow in front of them, and

0:35:53.160 --> 0:35:55.600
<v Speaker 2>they said, if you eat that marshmallow now, you won't

0:35:55.600 --> 0:35:58.240
<v Speaker 2>get anymore when they come back. But if you don't

0:35:58.239 --> 0:36:01.319
<v Speaker 2>eat that marshmallow and you wait when I come back,

0:36:01.320 --> 0:36:03.439
<v Speaker 2>you'll get three more. The kids are like, oh, that's

0:36:03.480 --> 0:36:06.480
<v Speaker 2>such a good deal, but some of them literally couldn't

0:36:06.480 --> 0:36:08.080
<v Speaker 2>do it, and then eat the marshmallow and be like whatever,

0:36:08.080 --> 0:36:09.719
<v Speaker 2>I don't care about The late ones like this is

0:36:09.760 --> 0:36:11.759
<v Speaker 2>the best thing I've ever eaten, and some of them

0:36:11.800 --> 0:36:14.040
<v Speaker 2>were really reserved. And then you know, sit back and

0:36:14.080 --> 0:36:17.480
<v Speaker 2>just go okay, no problems, Like I'm totally taibe, so

0:36:17.560 --> 0:36:19.840
<v Speaker 2>that would be me and I just sit back and

0:36:19.840 --> 0:36:21.680
<v Speaker 2>be like, okay, cool, well, I want a total of

0:36:21.719 --> 0:36:26.320
<v Speaker 2>four marshmallows, so I'm away for this. But everybody works differently.

0:36:26.360 --> 0:36:28.879
<v Speaker 2>Everybody has a different personality. And some of those kids

0:36:28.920 --> 0:36:30.960
<v Speaker 2>like kind of picked up the marshmallow, licked it, put

0:36:30.960 --> 0:36:33.520
<v Speaker 2>it back to it down. Some of them like sniffed

0:36:33.560 --> 0:36:36.040
<v Speaker 2>it and made sure that they actually didn't want to

0:36:36.040 --> 0:36:39.000
<v Speaker 2>eat it. Like all of us have different levels of control,

0:36:39.120 --> 0:36:41.400
<v Speaker 2>and that is human nature. But at the end of

0:36:41.400 --> 0:36:43.840
<v Speaker 2>the day, by now pay later schemes are going to

0:36:43.880 --> 0:36:48.200
<v Speaker 2>play into you as an individual if you are someone

0:36:48.239 --> 0:36:51.920
<v Speaker 2>who really thrives on instant gratification, and that means getting

0:36:51.920 --> 0:36:55.400
<v Speaker 2>the item now and not considering future you. That's something

0:36:55.440 --> 0:36:57.880
<v Speaker 2>that you and I talk about all the time, and

0:36:57.920 --> 0:37:01.560
<v Speaker 2>that is putting future you first, Like they are so important,

0:37:01.600 --> 0:37:04.239
<v Speaker 2>they deserve your respect, and they deserve you to start

0:37:04.280 --> 0:37:07.400
<v Speaker 2>putting them first. Because the sooner you start putting future

0:37:07.480 --> 0:37:09.560
<v Speaker 2>you first, the sooner you're going to feel like you've

0:37:09.600 --> 0:37:11.000
<v Speaker 2>been put first by yourself.

0:37:11.239 --> 0:37:14.759
<v Speaker 3>Love that from you, Indeed, that was nice. The red

0:37:14.760 --> 0:37:16.120
<v Speaker 3>ones are hitting the girls.

0:37:15.880 --> 0:37:18.840
<v Speaker 2>Please don't tell anybody that we're drinking their red wine.

0:37:18.920 --> 0:37:22.239
<v Speaker 3>My life is really hearty then as well, beautiful. I

0:37:22.280 --> 0:37:24.719
<v Speaker 3>just wanted to add in there as well that like,

0:37:24.760 --> 0:37:27.200
<v Speaker 3>it feels so much better when you save and save

0:37:27.239 --> 0:37:29.480
<v Speaker 3>and save and then you splurge on that item that

0:37:29.480 --> 0:37:32.520
<v Speaker 3>you've been so looking forward to, rather than saving a

0:37:32.640 --> 0:37:35.120
<v Speaker 3>quarter of what it costs buying it then, and then

0:37:35.320 --> 0:37:36.880
<v Speaker 3>you've got the item, and then you still have to

0:37:36.960 --> 0:37:39.839
<v Speaker 3>continuously pay for it. It's like that is just not

0:37:39.960 --> 0:37:42.279
<v Speaker 3>what anyone wants to be doing, so I don't know,

0:37:42.440 --> 0:37:44.880
<v Speaker 3>just bear that in mind as well. But my last

0:37:44.920 --> 0:37:47.640
<v Speaker 3>question here for u V is what would you love

0:37:47.680 --> 0:37:50.200
<v Speaker 3>our listeners to take away from this episode and what

0:37:50.239 --> 0:37:51.640
<v Speaker 3>do you want them to be mindful of when it

0:37:51.640 --> 0:37:52.719
<v Speaker 3>comes to Buy now, Pay Later.

0:37:52.880 --> 0:37:55.120
<v Speaker 2>I just want you to be mindful of your purchases

0:37:55.239 --> 0:37:58.959
<v Speaker 2>and whether they're actually relevant to something you absolutely need

0:37:59.080 --> 0:38:01.880
<v Speaker 2>right now. I don't think this episode should be taken

0:38:01.920 --> 0:38:05.080
<v Speaker 2>as by now pay later programs are awful and terrible

0:38:05.160 --> 0:38:08.320
<v Speaker 2>and going to destroy you. I think it's more please

0:38:08.440 --> 0:38:11.879
<v Speaker 2>understand that some personalities aren't going to work. And I'm

0:38:11.880 --> 0:38:14.360
<v Speaker 2>going to be really honest, and this is not me

0:38:14.480 --> 0:38:17.400
<v Speaker 2>being on my high horse. It's just how I manage

0:38:17.440 --> 0:38:19.799
<v Speaker 2>my life, and I used to be in personal debt.

0:38:19.880 --> 0:38:22.560
<v Speaker 2>Like that's something that I've been through, So don't get

0:38:22.560 --> 0:38:25.080
<v Speaker 2>me wrong. I know how it feels. I know where

0:38:25.080 --> 0:38:28.160
<v Speaker 2>you've come from. But I think that if now you know,

0:38:28.320 --> 0:38:31.160
<v Speaker 2>nearly thirty year old me terrifying had after pay, I'd

0:38:31.160 --> 0:38:34.399
<v Speaker 2>probably use it really responsibly. I cannot say that twenty

0:38:34.440 --> 0:38:36.960
<v Speaker 2>one year old Victoria would have used it responsibly because

0:38:37.000 --> 0:38:40.360
<v Speaker 2>she racked up a personal loan and didn't pay anything

0:38:40.400 --> 0:38:43.360
<v Speaker 2>off apart from the minimum repayments for a very long time.

0:38:43.640 --> 0:38:48.440
<v Speaker 2>So I think future me in this situation is arguably

0:38:48.560 --> 0:38:51.320
<v Speaker 2>more educated than twenty one year old me. But twenty

0:38:51.360 --> 0:38:53.759
<v Speaker 2>one year old me wouldn't have second guessed it. I

0:38:53.760 --> 0:38:55.840
<v Speaker 2>would have just thought it was a fantastic way to

0:38:55.920 --> 0:38:57.760
<v Speaker 2>look really great every weekend.

0:38:57.600 --> 0:39:01.120
<v Speaker 3>Which is why it is so risky. Yeah, I think

0:39:01.160 --> 0:39:04.160
<v Speaker 3>everyone has gotten the gist of today's episode, but now

0:39:04.160 --> 0:39:06.440
<v Speaker 3>it is time to move across to the listener question.

0:39:07.040 --> 0:39:08.719
<v Speaker 5>I have a question about a friend of mine who

0:39:08.719 --> 0:39:10.680
<v Speaker 5>I feel is getting herself into a bit of trouble

0:39:10.680 --> 0:39:13.680
<v Speaker 5>with after pay. She always has the newest and best

0:39:13.680 --> 0:39:15.520
<v Speaker 5>clothes and takes a lot of pride in that kind

0:39:15.560 --> 0:39:18.040
<v Speaker 5>of stuff. But I'm worried she's taking it too far.

0:39:18.440 --> 0:39:20.440
<v Speaker 5>I know she has no money, and I'm worried that

0:39:20.520 --> 0:39:22.840
<v Speaker 5>it's going to spin out of control. As her friend,

0:39:22.960 --> 0:39:25.760
<v Speaker 5>I feel I should intervene, but I'm not quite sure

0:39:26.040 --> 0:39:28.600
<v Speaker 5>what to say. She hates talking about money and tells

0:39:28.640 --> 0:39:30.759
<v Speaker 5>me that it makes her anxious, and I don't want

0:39:30.800 --> 0:39:31.719
<v Speaker 5>to patronize her.

0:39:32.400 --> 0:39:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Thanks.

0:39:33.640 --> 0:39:37.160
<v Speaker 3>This is a massive dilemma, Victoria. I don't think I

0:39:37.239 --> 0:39:39.160
<v Speaker 3>quite know what to say. Have you got any thoughts

0:39:39.160 --> 0:39:39.839
<v Speaker 3>to kick us off?

0:39:40.200 --> 0:39:42.840
<v Speaker 2>I feel like this is actually a pickle? Is that

0:39:42.880 --> 0:39:43.719
<v Speaker 2>a thing that we say in now?

0:39:43.840 --> 0:39:44.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's pickle?

0:39:44.560 --> 0:39:47.719
<v Speaker 2>Can that actually become a sortem catch frase? Can that

0:39:47.760 --> 0:39:48.800
<v Speaker 2>be a sort catchphrase?

0:39:48.800 --> 0:39:49.360
<v Speaker 3>I'm open to it.

0:39:49.400 --> 0:39:51.640
<v Speaker 2>I really like the pickle. We're in a pickle? How

0:39:51.680 --> 0:39:54.239
<v Speaker 2>do we work this out? But genuinely, this is so

0:39:55.080 --> 0:39:57.040
<v Speaker 2>something that I'm sure a lot of you have been

0:39:57.080 --> 0:40:00.000
<v Speaker 2>through because it's very hard to not notice your friends

0:40:00.200 --> 0:40:03.200
<v Speaker 2>new outfit or pair of shoes or bag, or the

0:40:03.280 --> 0:40:06.360
<v Speaker 2>consistency of those things coming in. And whilst we can't

0:40:06.440 --> 0:40:10.600
<v Speaker 2>pry on everybody else's financial situation, who knows, maybe Georgia

0:40:10.680 --> 0:40:13.280
<v Speaker 2>King has a trust fund she hasn't told me about.

0:40:13.840 --> 0:40:17.160
<v Speaker 2>I do think that caring about your friends is something

0:40:17.160 --> 0:40:19.360
<v Speaker 2>that is really important and I always talk about, you know,

0:40:19.400 --> 0:40:24.240
<v Speaker 2>the importance of being kind. But sometimes being kind isn't easy.

0:40:24.520 --> 0:40:28.319
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes being kind is really hard, And this conversation could

0:40:28.320 --> 0:40:31.239
<v Speaker 2>come off as you know, being really condescending, and it

0:40:31.239 --> 0:40:33.880
<v Speaker 2>could be you know, your friend getting up in arms.

0:40:33.920 --> 0:40:37.479
<v Speaker 2>And arguably, when you make someone feel uncomfortable, they get

0:40:37.640 --> 0:40:42.200
<v Speaker 2>immediately defensive. So I think starting to have conversations with

0:40:42.239 --> 0:40:45.160
<v Speaker 2>your friend around money and not going immediately to the

0:40:45.239 --> 0:40:47.400
<v Speaker 2>issue that you want to talk about is probably a

0:40:47.400 --> 0:40:52.120
<v Speaker 2>really great way. So, without being self promotional, start recommending

0:40:52.120 --> 0:40:55.240
<v Speaker 2>that she listens to episodes of the podcast, Start talking

0:40:55.320 --> 0:40:58.800
<v Speaker 2>about money more openly, Start sharing your money goals. Often

0:40:58.840 --> 0:41:01.319
<v Speaker 2>when people are in situation where they're using buy now,

0:41:01.360 --> 0:41:05.480
<v Speaker 2>pay later programs, they don't have larger financial goals, and

0:41:05.600 --> 0:41:08.239
<v Speaker 2>that is something that if you do have larger financial goals,

0:41:08.280 --> 0:41:11.080
<v Speaker 2>you're going to start thinking about more. So maybe recommend

0:41:11.200 --> 0:41:13.840
<v Speaker 2>that they sit down and have a chat about, you know,

0:41:13.960 --> 0:41:15.640
<v Speaker 2>the goals that they have, or like, what are you

0:41:15.680 --> 0:41:18.160
<v Speaker 2>trying to achieve or you know, oh my gosh, something's

0:41:18.160 --> 0:41:20.600
<v Speaker 2>in my way. And I really want to get rid

0:41:20.640 --> 0:41:22.879
<v Speaker 2>of that, maybe talk to them about barriers that you've

0:41:22.920 --> 0:41:25.640
<v Speaker 2>got so that they feel open to share their journey.

0:41:26.040 --> 0:41:28.840
<v Speaker 2>There's something really special about showing your vulnerability so that

0:41:28.880 --> 0:41:32.080
<v Speaker 2>your friend or the person you're talking about actually reciprocates.

0:41:32.200 --> 0:41:34.680
<v Speaker 3>Well, that's it. You're kind of planting that seed, because

0:41:34.800 --> 0:41:37.200
<v Speaker 3>otherwise it could seem kind of like an intervention and

0:41:37.239 --> 0:41:39.560
<v Speaker 3>it could be quite scary, and you're right, she would

0:41:39.640 --> 0:41:41.960
<v Speaker 3>totally go on the defensive. But I feel like this

0:41:42.040 --> 0:41:44.960
<v Speaker 3>question kind of extends to like, if your friend has

0:41:45.000 --> 0:41:47.399
<v Speaker 3>a boyfriend that you know is just bad news, and

0:41:47.440 --> 0:41:49.440
<v Speaker 3>it's like, do I have that conversation with them or

0:41:49.440 --> 0:41:52.600
<v Speaker 3>do I not? Like I feel in my heart like

0:41:52.719 --> 0:41:56.440
<v Speaker 3>my values would tell me to speak to that friend

0:41:56.719 --> 0:41:59.960
<v Speaker 3>openly and honestly. Depending on your relationship. If they are

0:42:00.000 --> 0:42:01.640
<v Speaker 3>your best friend, then I feel like it is almost

0:42:01.680 --> 0:42:04.880
<v Speaker 3>your role to do so. But at the same time,

0:42:05.480 --> 0:42:08.560
<v Speaker 3>they're going to do what they want to do. But

0:42:08.680 --> 0:42:11.760
<v Speaker 3>when it comes to money, I think just starting gently

0:42:12.120 --> 0:42:14.239
<v Speaker 3>definitely getting involved with shoes on the money. I feel

0:42:14.280 --> 0:42:16.799
<v Speaker 3>like our podcast, again not to be self promotional, but

0:42:16.800 --> 0:42:19.040
<v Speaker 3>I feel like it is a really gentle way of

0:42:19.080 --> 0:42:21.480
<v Speaker 3>having these conversations about money that we've not had before.

0:42:21.520 --> 0:42:23.399
<v Speaker 3>And I feel like a lot of people have come

0:42:23.440 --> 0:42:25.680
<v Speaker 3>to our podcast and to our community and have felt,

0:42:25.800 --> 0:42:28.120
<v Speaker 3>oh wow, like money isn't so scary. After all, we're

0:42:28.160 --> 0:42:29.200
<v Speaker 3>all going through this together.

0:42:29.480 --> 0:42:31.799
<v Speaker 2>It shouldn't be scary. It should be just something that

0:42:31.840 --> 0:42:33.799
<v Speaker 2>we talk about in the same way that we talk

0:42:33.800 --> 0:42:37.719
<v Speaker 2>about loving dogs. Like I'm so open about that conversation.

0:42:38.200 --> 0:42:40.160
<v Speaker 2>But at the end of the day, these are really

0:42:40.200 --> 0:42:42.640
<v Speaker 2>hard conversations to have if you've never had them, kind

0:42:42.640 --> 0:42:45.200
<v Speaker 2>of like speaking a different language and no one's comfortable

0:42:45.360 --> 0:42:47.680
<v Speaker 2>speaking Japanese. If it's your first day, you might know

0:42:47.719 --> 0:42:50.960
<v Speaker 2>how to say hello, but that is literally the extent

0:42:51.040 --> 0:42:53.880
<v Speaker 2>of your knowledge. But the more you immerse yourself in it,

0:42:53.920 --> 0:42:56.040
<v Speaker 2>the more you understand, the more you feel like you're

0:42:56.040 --> 0:42:58.920
<v Speaker 2>empowered by that. And to me, I think it's just

0:42:59.200 --> 0:43:01.319
<v Speaker 2>really important to care for your friends, and I think

0:43:01.360 --> 0:43:03.399
<v Speaker 2>maybe preface it with that and just be like, hey,

0:43:03.480 --> 0:43:05.120
<v Speaker 2>I really care about you, and I just wanted to

0:43:05.120 --> 0:43:07.280
<v Speaker 2>point out that. I just feel like maybe that's something

0:43:07.280 --> 0:43:10.040
<v Speaker 2>that isn't that great for your future. Yeah, And something

0:43:10.040 --> 0:43:12.680
<v Speaker 2>else that I think is really important is not expecting

0:43:12.680 --> 0:43:15.400
<v Speaker 2>a response from that person, like just put it on

0:43:15.440 --> 0:43:18.200
<v Speaker 2>the table, drop it, walk away. It is not something

0:43:18.239 --> 0:43:20.399
<v Speaker 2>that they need to justify or talk to you about

0:43:20.480 --> 0:43:23.120
<v Speaker 2>unless they're really comfortable to do so. But I think

0:43:23.160 --> 0:43:25.440
<v Speaker 2>the way I would approach that is, Hey, Georgia, I

0:43:25.640 --> 0:43:28.000
<v Speaker 2>just really need to get this off my chest. I

0:43:28.080 --> 0:43:30.120
<v Speaker 2>really want to talk to you about this. You don't

0:43:30.160 --> 0:43:32.000
<v Speaker 2>have to come back to me with a response right now.

0:43:32.040 --> 0:43:33.440
<v Speaker 2>You don't even have to come back to me or

0:43:33.440 --> 0:43:35.360
<v Speaker 2>with a response at all. I'm not expecting it. I

0:43:35.480 --> 0:43:37.439
<v Speaker 2>just want to let you know how I'm feeling. Because

0:43:37.480 --> 0:43:39.840
<v Speaker 2>your friend's not ready for that conversation. You've probably been

0:43:39.920 --> 0:43:42.000
<v Speaker 2>mulling it over in your head for the last week

0:43:42.200 --> 0:43:45.320
<v Speaker 2>at least. They're not ready though, because they didn't expect

0:43:45.360 --> 0:43:47.160
<v Speaker 2>you to say that, so don't expect them to come

0:43:47.200 --> 0:43:49.759
<v Speaker 2>straight back. It's the same with any conversation, whether that's

0:43:49.800 --> 0:43:52.400
<v Speaker 2>your partner, your parents, like, don't expect people to be

0:43:52.440 --> 0:43:54.839
<v Speaker 2>as prepared for a conversation as you are when you've

0:43:54.880 --> 0:43:56.760
<v Speaker 2>had all of the full time to prepare.

0:43:56.960 --> 0:43:59.279
<v Speaker 3>I guess the moral of the story here is that

0:43:59.320 --> 0:44:03.040
<v Speaker 3>we're both very supportive of having that conversation. She might

0:44:03.080 --> 0:44:05.440
<v Speaker 3>not respond that well, but I think it is important

0:44:05.600 --> 0:44:08.960
<v Speaker 3>as her friend to let her know that you're there.

0:44:09.120 --> 0:44:11.560
<v Speaker 3>Assuming she's a girl. I'm not sure if she was,

0:44:12.440 --> 0:44:15.600
<v Speaker 3>but yeah, I think that's the moral of what we're

0:44:15.600 --> 0:44:16.279
<v Speaker 3>trying to say here.

0:44:16.360 --> 0:44:18.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely, And I think it's just about being kind

0:44:18.600 --> 0:44:20.480
<v Speaker 2>to your friend and being kind to yourself. And like,

0:44:20.600 --> 0:44:23.160
<v Speaker 2>my friends, if you're in that position and you're finding

0:44:23.160 --> 0:44:27.319
<v Speaker 2>yourself in a space where you are spending unnecessarily, like

0:44:27.400 --> 0:44:29.880
<v Speaker 2>let me be that friend. You don't need to do that. Like,

0:44:30.160 --> 0:44:31.920
<v Speaker 2>at the end of the day, you're not putting future

0:44:31.960 --> 0:44:34.920
<v Speaker 2>you first, and she's or he's or they are really

0:44:34.960 --> 0:44:35.719
<v Speaker 2>really important.

0:44:40.560 --> 0:44:42.759
<v Speaker 4>Hey, I'm a twenty three year old Kiwi and this

0:44:42.840 --> 0:44:44.400
<v Speaker 4>is my military money diary.

0:44:44.719 --> 0:44:47.200
<v Speaker 3>Now let's take a sneak peek into the financial lives

0:44:47.200 --> 0:44:50.000
<v Speaker 3>of perfect strangers. It's time for money diaries.

0:44:50.320 --> 0:44:54.680
<v Speaker 4>I used to be a terrible savor and a terrible

0:44:54.719 --> 0:44:56.760
<v Speaker 4>spin there. I used to really like live in the moment,

0:44:56.840 --> 0:45:00.000
<v Speaker 4>and I'd spend my money really frivolously, and I always

0:45:00.040 --> 0:45:02.879
<v Speaker 4>would tell myself that the experiences made it worth it.

0:45:02.920 --> 0:45:04.680
<v Speaker 4>But the problem was that I would just go on

0:45:04.760 --> 0:45:07.000
<v Speaker 4>to debt without a second thought, and I seriously didn't

0:45:07.040 --> 0:45:08.960
<v Speaker 4>think about how it would impact my future at all,

0:45:09.080 --> 0:45:10.759
<v Speaker 4>and it kind of makes me a little bit sick

0:45:10.800 --> 0:45:14.040
<v Speaker 4>thinking about how much I worked throughout my student years

0:45:14.120 --> 0:45:16.480
<v Speaker 4>and how little I saved and I have nothing to

0:45:16.520 --> 0:45:19.520
<v Speaker 4>show for it. But yeah, I've completely turned that around

0:45:19.680 --> 0:45:22.000
<v Speaker 4>thanks to She's on the money, which is really cool.

0:45:22.040 --> 0:45:24.560
<v Speaker 4>And I have a completely different attitude towards money now,

0:45:24.680 --> 0:45:29.000
<v Speaker 4>which is security. And I guess coming from that place

0:45:29.040 --> 0:45:32.040
<v Speaker 4>of financial insecurity of being a really broke student, like

0:45:32.080 --> 0:45:35.480
<v Speaker 4>I literally would be skipping meals and I remember eating

0:45:35.520 --> 0:45:39.440
<v Speaker 4>the most sad little meals of like playing potatoes because

0:45:39.480 --> 0:45:43.600
<v Speaker 4>I had nothing else. And now I'm a lot more

0:45:43.600 --> 0:45:46.600
<v Speaker 4>protective of my money because I know what it was

0:45:46.719 --> 0:45:48.040
<v Speaker 4>like to really struggle.

0:45:48.200 --> 0:45:50.680
<v Speaker 3>What does our peee money diarists do? How much does

0:45:50.719 --> 0:45:52.920
<v Speaker 3>she earn and how much is in her accounts.

0:45:53.160 --> 0:45:56.320
<v Speaker 4>I'm a legal opposer in the military, which is basically

0:45:56.480 --> 0:46:01.760
<v Speaker 4>being a deployable in the house lawyer uniform, and I

0:46:01.800 --> 0:46:04.680
<v Speaker 4>am a recent grade, so I earn about seventy two

0:46:04.680 --> 0:46:08.360
<v Speaker 4>thousand a year. That includes a four percent contribution that

0:46:08.400 --> 0:46:11.640
<v Speaker 4>my employee makes to kwisaver, which is the New Zealand

0:46:11.640 --> 0:46:13.840
<v Speaker 4>fund that you can use for your first time or retirement.

0:46:14.239 --> 0:46:17.360
<v Speaker 4>I have sixteen thousand in my kwisaver. At the moment,

0:46:17.719 --> 0:46:21.239
<v Speaker 4>I have a three thousand dollar emergency fund, and then

0:46:21.280 --> 0:46:23.759
<v Speaker 4>I have a fully funded sinking fund, which is about

0:46:23.800 --> 0:46:28.479
<v Speaker 4>one thousand dollars for me personally, and I have six

0:46:28.560 --> 0:46:31.319
<v Speaker 4>hundred of my main account and then five hundred in

0:46:31.400 --> 0:46:34.759
<v Speaker 4>my long term savings, which has taken a bit of

0:46:34.760 --> 0:46:37.040
<v Speaker 4>a hat because I've made a couple of big purchases

0:46:37.360 --> 0:46:40.319
<v Speaker 4>in the last few months. I bought a new car,

0:46:40.360 --> 0:46:42.880
<v Speaker 4>which was five thousand, and I had to get a

0:46:42.880 --> 0:46:47.000
<v Speaker 4>new laptop, which was eighteen hundred. But that's the first

0:46:47.000 --> 0:46:49.200
<v Speaker 4>time that I've ever been able to pay for things

0:46:49.320 --> 0:46:51.799
<v Speaker 4>outright and not had to go on to debt, which

0:46:51.880 --> 0:46:53.680
<v Speaker 4>was pretty cool because I'd been saving.

0:46:53.480 --> 0:46:54.800
<v Speaker 3>What I have thought was on investing.

0:46:55.000 --> 0:46:59.000
<v Speaker 4>I'm really wanting to start investing. I've never felt stable

0:46:59.160 --> 0:47:03.000
<v Speaker 4>or secure enough in my finances to start, or even

0:47:03.000 --> 0:47:07.640
<v Speaker 4>my own abilities to start. But yeah, Victoria, her passion

0:47:07.680 --> 0:47:10.080
<v Speaker 4>for it has like really inspired me, which I'm sure

0:47:10.120 --> 0:47:12.439
<v Speaker 4>she'll be happy to hear. So I really want to start,

0:47:12.480 --> 0:47:15.120
<v Speaker 4>but I am finding it hard because I guess I've

0:47:15.160 --> 0:47:18.640
<v Speaker 4>come from a place of real financial insecurity in the past,

0:47:18.719 --> 0:47:21.800
<v Speaker 4>so it's quite hard for me to put money towards

0:47:21.840 --> 0:47:24.160
<v Speaker 4>something that I'm not one hundred percent confident, and so

0:47:24.400 --> 0:47:26.400
<v Speaker 4>I really want to grow my confidence in that.

0:47:26.640 --> 0:47:27.760
<v Speaker 3>Does she have any debts?

0:47:27.960 --> 0:47:30.320
<v Speaker 4>Just last year, I was still a really broke student

0:47:30.400 --> 0:47:33.400
<v Speaker 4>and I had over five thousand dollars of debt, but

0:47:33.600 --> 0:47:36.359
<v Speaker 4>over twenty twenty and thanks to she's on the money

0:47:36.400 --> 0:47:37.640
<v Speaker 4>as well. I've paid it all off.

0:47:38.200 --> 0:47:38.640
<v Speaker 3>Thankfully.

0:47:38.640 --> 0:47:42.040
<v Speaker 4>I didn't have any credit cards or anything with interest

0:47:42.120 --> 0:47:44.880
<v Speaker 4>on it. I just had an overdraft I had after

0:47:44.920 --> 0:47:47.600
<v Speaker 4>paying lay by, which I closed for good, thank the Lord.

0:47:48.160 --> 0:47:51.560
<v Speaker 4>I also had fifteen hundred dollars of a nine thousand

0:47:51.560 --> 0:47:54.840
<v Speaker 4>dollars in visiline debt left to pay and just a

0:47:54.840 --> 0:47:56.839
<v Speaker 4>little bit owing to people that had helped me out.

0:47:57.040 --> 0:47:59.919
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, completely paid that all off, which is such

0:48:00.239 --> 0:48:02.799
<v Speaker 4>freeing feeling, and I don't feel stressed about money now,

0:48:02.840 --> 0:48:06.000
<v Speaker 4>which I'm very blessed and privileged to feel now. I

0:48:06.080 --> 0:48:09.160
<v Speaker 4>just have my student loan which is sitting at forty

0:48:09.200 --> 0:48:12.520
<v Speaker 4>three thousand, five hundred, which covered me doing my bachelor's

0:48:12.600 --> 0:48:14.120
<v Speaker 4>and then my Master of Laws.

0:48:14.160 --> 0:48:15.680
<v Speaker 3>What is her best money habit?

0:48:15.880 --> 0:48:18.320
<v Speaker 4>I think my best money habit is that I've always

0:48:18.360 --> 0:48:21.480
<v Speaker 4>been very minimalistic, like I really don't like owning a

0:48:21.480 --> 0:48:26.000
<v Speaker 4>lot of stuff. I find shopping and having things quite overwhelming.

0:48:26.160 --> 0:48:28.760
<v Speaker 4>And I live in barracks, so that kind of helps.

0:48:28.760 --> 0:48:30.719
<v Speaker 4>Like I don't have a lot of space, so I

0:48:30.760 --> 0:48:35.239
<v Speaker 4>don't often get swayed by sales or like unnecessary luxuries.

0:48:35.239 --> 0:48:36.960
<v Speaker 3>I guess what's her worst money habit.

0:48:37.080 --> 0:48:40.239
<v Speaker 4>I used to be a terrible savor, but that's in

0:48:40.280 --> 0:48:43.560
<v Speaker 4>the past. I think now my worst habit was I

0:48:43.640 --> 0:48:46.600
<v Speaker 4>have a lot of disposable income that I leave in

0:48:46.640 --> 0:48:47.320
<v Speaker 4>my main account.

0:48:47.400 --> 0:48:48.040
<v Speaker 3>Every fortnight.

0:48:48.440 --> 0:48:51.160
<v Speaker 4>I put about fifty percent of my take hompaign into

0:48:51.600 --> 0:48:54.759
<v Speaker 4>savings and student loan, et cetera. But then I keep

0:48:54.760 --> 0:48:57.760
<v Speaker 4>that other fifty percent just sitting in my account, mostly

0:48:57.800 --> 0:49:02.200
<v Speaker 4>because of that fear of being called out or unable

0:49:02.280 --> 0:49:05.279
<v Speaker 4>to pay for things or help other people out. And

0:49:05.520 --> 0:49:08.000
<v Speaker 4>I think that just comes from my history with finances.

0:49:08.000 --> 0:49:11.080
<v Speaker 4>So it makes me feel more confident and secure having

0:49:11.280 --> 0:49:13.360
<v Speaker 4>it just sitting there. And to be honest, there's a

0:49:13.360 --> 0:49:14.840
<v Speaker 4>good part of it. It keeps me on track with

0:49:14.840 --> 0:49:16.920
<v Speaker 4>my savings because I don't end up dipping into it.

0:49:16.960 --> 0:49:19.040
<v Speaker 4>But I think I definitely could budget a lot better

0:49:19.160 --> 0:49:21.640
<v Speaker 4>and probably save more if I just had a bit

0:49:21.680 --> 0:49:22.680
<v Speaker 4>more control over it.

0:49:22.880 --> 0:49:24.279
<v Speaker 3>What's her big money goal.

0:49:24.440 --> 0:49:27.600
<v Speaker 4>I would love to hit ten thousand in my savings account.

0:49:27.840 --> 0:49:30.480
<v Speaker 4>That would be a huge achievement because I've never saved

0:49:30.520 --> 0:49:33.040
<v Speaker 4>more than five thousand. And I also just really want

0:49:33.040 --> 0:49:33.800
<v Speaker 4>to start investing.

0:49:33.960 --> 0:49:36.520
<v Speaker 3>And what grade would our ken we military money giroists

0:49:36.600 --> 0:49:38.200
<v Speaker 3>give herself? I would say a B.

0:49:38.719 --> 0:49:42.000
<v Speaker 4>I used to be like below a D like a

0:49:42.120 --> 0:49:44.680
<v Speaker 4>Z right at the bottom. But I definitely have improved

0:49:44.719 --> 0:49:46.960
<v Speaker 4>heaps over last year. And I think when I have

0:49:47.000 --> 0:49:52.000
<v Speaker 4>a longer history of saving and start investing, then I

0:49:52.040 --> 0:49:55.080
<v Speaker 4>will feel more confident and probably bump up my score

0:49:55.080 --> 0:49:55.560
<v Speaker 4>a little bit.

0:49:55.800 --> 0:50:00.000
<v Speaker 3>Victoria, our military money dirist, what did you make of it?

0:50:00.200 --> 0:50:02.120
<v Speaker 2>To be my little sister? Am I allowed to open

0:50:02.160 --> 0:50:05.560
<v Speaker 2>adoptions for siblings? Is that cool? Can the entire She's

0:50:05.600 --> 0:50:07.280
<v Speaker 2>on the money community become my sibyl?

0:50:07.320 --> 0:50:10.440
<v Speaker 3>I have one hundred and ten thousand little sisters, and

0:50:10.920 --> 0:50:11.520
<v Speaker 3>I love.

0:50:11.400 --> 0:50:14.759
<v Speaker 2>That, like little sisters, little brothers, little them's, Like I

0:50:15.040 --> 0:50:17.319
<v Speaker 2>love this. I don't know if my little sister's going

0:50:17.360 --> 0:50:19.360
<v Speaker 2>to agree with that, though, Like Alex, please let me

0:50:19.400 --> 0:50:21.439
<v Speaker 2>know if you actually listen to my podcast and got

0:50:21.440 --> 0:50:23.759
<v Speaker 2>this far into it, please like let me know if

0:50:23.760 --> 0:50:27.319
<v Speaker 2>I'm allowed new siblings. But I really liked her, and

0:50:27.400 --> 0:50:29.920
<v Speaker 2>I just felt like, such as she's on the money advocate,

0:50:29.960 --> 0:50:33.240
<v Speaker 2>like girl, I love you. But what I found really

0:50:33.239 --> 0:50:35.680
<v Speaker 2>interesting was that she was able to save, she was

0:50:35.760 --> 0:50:38.799
<v Speaker 2>able to spend, but she still felt anxious about it

0:50:38.840 --> 0:50:42.360
<v Speaker 2>because she didn't have a plan. So for me, the

0:50:42.480 --> 0:50:44.640
<v Speaker 2>number one tip I would give her is create a

0:50:44.680 --> 0:50:47.080
<v Speaker 2>plan around your money, because she said that she was

0:50:47.160 --> 0:50:50.440
<v Speaker 2>leaving fifty percent of her income in her spending account

0:50:50.480 --> 0:50:52.480
<v Speaker 2>just because it makes her feel safe. And I totally

0:50:52.520 --> 0:50:54.440
<v Speaker 2>get that. At the end of the day, you should

0:50:54.440 --> 0:50:56.239
<v Speaker 2>be managing your money in a way that helps you

0:50:56.280 --> 0:51:00.239
<v Speaker 2>sleep well at night. But if you don't, I don't

0:51:00.360 --> 0:51:02.920
<v Speaker 2>have a plan, you are not able to maximize how

0:51:03.000 --> 0:51:05.280
<v Speaker 2>much you can save and invest. She said she wanted

0:51:05.280 --> 0:51:07.560
<v Speaker 2>to invest, and I'm going to make a grand assumption.

0:51:07.719 --> 0:51:10.120
<v Speaker 2>She lives in barracks, which is a very privileged position

0:51:10.200 --> 0:51:12.720
<v Speaker 2>to be in just because obviously a lot of stuff

0:51:12.760 --> 0:51:15.480
<v Speaker 2>is supplemented or paid for, because that's the way these

0:51:15.520 --> 0:51:18.560
<v Speaker 2>things work. Because she's literally putting her life on the

0:51:18.600 --> 0:51:21.959
<v Speaker 2>line for us, which is epic and something definitely worthy

0:51:22.000 --> 0:51:25.080
<v Speaker 2>of recognition. For me, I think it's definitely really important

0:51:25.120 --> 0:51:27.520
<v Speaker 2>to have a plan in place and without I feel

0:51:27.520 --> 0:51:30.399
<v Speaker 2>like this episode's so self promotional Georgia King, but I'm

0:51:30.440 --> 0:51:32.560
<v Speaker 2>actually going to send her a log in to the

0:51:32.920 --> 0:51:36.160
<v Speaker 2>cash Flow and Budget Masterclass, because I think that is

0:51:36.200 --> 0:51:39.200
<v Speaker 2>actually the answer, like the way it steps you through,

0:51:39.239 --> 0:51:41.480
<v Speaker 2>And obviously I've thought about this for more than a

0:51:41.560 --> 0:51:43.560
<v Speaker 2>year how to create it, but the way it will

0:51:43.600 --> 0:51:46.160
<v Speaker 2>step her through creating a plan is going to help

0:51:46.239 --> 0:51:48.719
<v Speaker 2>her make her money work for her instead of she

0:51:48.840 --> 0:51:51.200
<v Speaker 2>just being a little bit anxious about it. No one

0:51:51.239 --> 0:51:52.800
<v Speaker 2>deserves to be anxious about money.

0:51:54.560 --> 0:51:57.319
<v Speaker 3>I think it's really interesting as well, how much she's

0:51:57.520 --> 0:52:01.960
<v Speaker 3>changed over the last twelve months. Glass last year she

0:52:02.040 --> 0:52:04.319
<v Speaker 3>was in five K of debt, She's paid it all off,

0:52:04.360 --> 0:52:06.319
<v Speaker 3>and now she's she's got it all going on. I

0:52:06.320 --> 0:52:08.759
<v Speaker 3>don't think I wrote enough notes of everything that she's

0:52:08.880 --> 0:52:11.799
<v Speaker 3>got happening, but I think three K in emergency, six

0:52:11.920 --> 0:52:14.680
<v Speaker 3>hundred somewhere, five hundred in her long term savings. She

0:52:14.760 --> 0:52:15.400
<v Speaker 3>bought a laptop.

0:52:15.440 --> 0:52:17.120
<v Speaker 2>I've written a lot of note she bought a laptop,

0:52:17.200 --> 0:52:19.319
<v Speaker 2>she bought a car. She's, in no doubt like she

0:52:19.600 --> 0:52:22.680
<v Speaker 2>is epic, and that's an a plus to me, Like

0:52:22.760 --> 0:52:25.680
<v Speaker 2>you're an epic person, and I just feel like it

0:52:25.800 --> 0:52:28.799
<v Speaker 2>is so important to celebrate those money wins and not

0:52:28.840 --> 0:52:31.480
<v Speaker 2>be anxious. And I don't know, I just feel like

0:52:31.520 --> 0:52:34.360
<v Speaker 2>that's so cool. Also, cheers for all the credit you

0:52:34.400 --> 0:52:37.120
<v Speaker 2>gave us, friend, Yeah, like we don't deserve it. At

0:52:37.120 --> 0:52:38.520
<v Speaker 2>the end of the day, if you're a part of

0:52:38.520 --> 0:52:41.720
<v Speaker 2>our community, the most important thing that you can remember

0:52:42.320 --> 0:52:44.680
<v Speaker 2>is that we didn't do this. You did this. So

0:52:44.800 --> 0:52:47.360
<v Speaker 2>many people will be listening to this, and our information

0:52:47.520 --> 0:52:50.320
<v Speaker 2>and our knowledge and whatever else we've got is falling

0:52:50.320 --> 0:52:52.920
<v Speaker 2>on deaf years because they're not ready to make the change.

0:52:53.040 --> 0:52:55.680
<v Speaker 2>If you are changing, that's all on you. You did that.

0:52:55.680 --> 0:52:56.880
<v Speaker 2>That's why we celebrate you.

0:52:57.239 --> 0:53:00.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, beautifully said fee. Do we think it's time to

0:53:00.360 --> 0:53:01.719
<v Speaker 3>wrap the show. If you got anything else.

0:53:01.640 --> 0:53:03.879
<v Speaker 2>To add I do just before we head off, I'd

0:53:03.920 --> 0:53:06.719
<v Speaker 2>like to acknowledge and pay respects to Australia's Aboriginal and

0:53:06.760 --> 0:53:10.360
<v Speaker 2>Torres Strait Islander people's, the traditional custodians of the lands,

0:53:10.360 --> 0:53:13.839
<v Speaker 2>the waterways and the skies all across Australia. We thank

0:53:13.880 --> 0:53:16.000
<v Speaker 2>you for sharing and for carrying on the land which

0:53:16.000 --> 0:53:18.480
<v Speaker 2>we are able to learn. We pay our respects to

0:53:18.560 --> 0:53:21.239
<v Speaker 2>eldest past and present, and we share our friendship and

0:53:21.320 --> 0:53:22.080
<v Speaker 2>our kindness.

0:53:22.160 --> 0:53:25.600
<v Speaker 3>The advice shared on Australia's Smartest podcast, She is on

0:53:25.640 --> 0:53:28.200
<v Speaker 3>the Money is general in nature and does not consider

0:53:28.280 --> 0:53:31.800
<v Speaker 3>your individual circumstances. She is on the Money exists purely

0:53:31.840 --> 0:53:34.840
<v Speaker 3>for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to

0:53:34.840 --> 0:53:38.960
<v Speaker 3>make an investment or financial decision. And we promise Victoria

0:53:39.000 --> 0:53:42.880
<v Speaker 3>Divine is an authorized representative of Australia Pacific Funds Management

0:53:43.080 --> 0:53:46.120
<v Speaker 3>Propriety Limited ABN three four one three two four six

0:53:46.200 --> 0:53:49.960
<v Speaker 3>three two five seven AFOSL three three nine one five one.

0:53:50.280 --> 0:53:54.040
<v Speaker 3>And a big thank you to Ryan John, our producer,

0:53:54.160 --> 0:53:55.799
<v Speaker 3>for putting together today's show.

0:53:56.040 --> 0:53:59.799
<v Speaker 2>Also Mad congrats. Ryan John has just been announced as

0:53:59.840 --> 0:54:04.640
<v Speaker 2>the breakfast summer radio host on Kiss FM with Lauren Phillips,

0:54:04.640 --> 0:54:06.640
<v Speaker 2>which is epic and like now we can say we

0:54:06.680 --> 0:54:06.960
<v Speaker 2>know a.

0:54:06.880 --> 0:54:09.960
<v Speaker 3>Favorite people here does that start? That starts next week?

0:54:10.000 --> 0:54:13.640
<v Speaker 2>It starts next week? Ryan, We love you, But you

0:54:13.680 --> 0:54:16.120
<v Speaker 2>know what else we love how she's on the money community.

0:54:16.480 --> 0:54:19.360
<v Speaker 2>So if you'd like to join us where our community

0:54:19.360 --> 0:54:22.359
<v Speaker 2>shares money, tips and tricks literally every single day, free

0:54:22.360 --> 0:54:25.440
<v Speaker 2>of judgment. So She's on the money and join us

0:54:25.440 --> 0:54:27.319
<v Speaker 2>on Facebook. If face looks not anything you can also

0:54:27.400 --> 0:54:29.440
<v Speaker 2>find us on Instagram, where she's on the money a

0:54:29.600 --> 0:54:32.480
<v Speaker 2>us also on TikTok. We're probably trying to get in

0:54:32.520 --> 0:54:36.160
<v Speaker 2>all of the social platforms, but most importantly, we are

0:54:36.200 --> 0:54:38.520
<v Speaker 2>on your team. The last thing I wanted to say,

0:54:38.560 --> 0:54:41.719
<v Speaker 2>which we definitely should have said earlier, was a big.

0:54:41.440 --> 0:54:43.640
<v Speaker 3>Thank you to everyone who voted for us in the

0:54:43.800 --> 0:54:46.720
<v Speaker 3>Podcast Awards Listener Award.

0:54:46.800 --> 0:54:49.880
<v Speaker 2>I guess absolutely that was a topic.

0:54:50.280 --> 0:54:51.200
<v Speaker 3>We're in the top ten.

0:54:51.360 --> 0:54:53.279
<v Speaker 2>I mean, we can't compete with Life on Cut because

0:54:53.280 --> 0:54:56.799
<v Speaker 2>that's ourably my favorite podcast, and I get why it

0:54:56.920 --> 0:54:59.520
<v Speaker 2>was number one. Yeah, but like we tried, and I'm so.

0:54:59.560 --> 0:55:02.040
<v Speaker 3>Grateful you we got lots of votes, so we're yeah,

0:55:02.280 --> 0:55:05.400
<v Speaker 3>very grateful. I guess, as we always say with you guys,

0:55:05.400 --> 0:55:07.320
<v Speaker 3>and yeah, just really appreciated.

0:55:07.040 --> 0:55:09.759
<v Speaker 2>Sending so much love. We are very happy campus this week.

0:55:09.880 --> 0:55:14.840
<v Speaker 2>So with that, let's let's wrap. See you next Wednesday, friends,