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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, the ability that you have number one to communicate

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Speaker 2: and number two to collaborate. This doesn't just go one way.

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Speaker 2: This is a two way conversation and it takes the

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Speaker 2: two of us to.

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Speaker 3: Work it out. And that's why it's a marriage or

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Speaker 3: a partnership.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mom

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Kylie, are you ready for a doozy of a

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Speaker 3: parent in question today?

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Speaker 2: A doozy?

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Speaker 3: This one is a doozy. It comes from a listener

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Speaker 3: who has emailed us via podcasts. Doozy even a word

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Speaker 3: podcasts with an s at happyfamilies dot com dot A.

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Speaker 3: You you know it's a doozy. You know it's a

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Speaker 3: word doozy. I'm going to Google it right now and

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Speaker 3: tell you what the definition of doozy is. If you

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Speaker 3: look up a doozy on Google, it says something outstanding

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Speaker 3: or unique of its kind. It's going to be a

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Speaker 3: doozy of a black eye. It's going to be a

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Speaker 3: thing example, doozy of a black eye. I think Google

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Speaker 3: could have come up with a better one than that

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Speaker 3: this is a doozy of a question. It comes from

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Speaker 3: a listener who says, my husband and I are just

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Speaker 3: totally different parents, and we are constantly disagreeing about everything

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Speaker 3: and anything, mostly in relation to rules and discipline. I'm

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Speaker 3: really stuck. I don't know how to make things consistent

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Speaker 3: in our house when they are anything. But as an example,

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Speaker 3: my husband, who works away from home a few days

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Speaker 3: a week, came home and told my eldest, who was

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Speaker 3: only nine, that he could go in the pool on

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Speaker 3: his own. I thought, at least the pool rules we

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Speaker 3: agreed on, but apparently not. We have younger kids, so

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Speaker 3: my rule has always been no kids in the pool

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Speaker 3: area without an adult, and that's not negotiable, regardless of

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Speaker 3: whether they can swim or not. He openly said, well,

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Speaker 3: I think that's buught to me in front of my

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Speaker 3: four year old, which I was appalled at, and of

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Speaker 3: course the younger kids instantly started asking if they could

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Speaker 3: go in the pool area as well. I'm not sure

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Speaker 3: what I'm asking here, but is there a way forward

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Speaker 3: when two parents just don't see eye to eye? Discipline

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Speaker 3: is a big one. I don't believe in smacking. He does.

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Speaker 3: We have two neurodivergent kids, and I feel as though

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Speaker 3: his expectations are too high. I'm looking for some kind

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Speaker 3: of guidance. This parent's in a hard place, Kylie. And

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Speaker 3: it got me thinking, have you and I ever disagreed?

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry I couldn't keep a straight faced when I

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Speaker 4: asked the question. Not that I want to minimize what

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Speaker 4: this mum is going through at all, but is it

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Speaker 4: reasonable to say that if you're not disagreeing in your relationship,

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Speaker 4: you're probably not in a relationship, or not in a

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Speaker 4: healthy one at least.

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Speaker 2: We're not suggesting that contention is imperative for a relationship

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Speaker 2: at all. No, But what we are suggesting is that

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Speaker 2: we're two totally different people. We're going to have different

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Speaker 2: opinions right a lot of the time. Yes, And the

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Speaker 2: idea that a relationship will run smoothly all the time

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Speaker 2: is a fallacy.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So we've disagreed on and I'm making a mentalist

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Speaker 3: right now. We have disagreed on discipline. Yeah, that was

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Speaker 3: one of our big ones early on. And well, I

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Speaker 3: don't know, and I'm going to call this pretty bluntly

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Speaker 3: right now. At the outset. The biggest concern that I

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Speaker 3: have about this particular email is the way that this

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Speaker 3: mum has described the interaction between her and her husband

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Speaker 3: and the children. I'm feeling a level of disrespect, the

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Speaker 3: level of contempt that's directed from the husband towards her.

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Speaker 3: It feels like a level of selfish disregard, which does

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Speaker 3: concern me. But if we set that aside for just

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Speaker 3: a moment, it's normal for couples to disagree about pretty

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Speaker 3: much everything, and other than that disregard, my sense is

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Speaker 3: that I've been that dad. Maybe I've even been that

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Speaker 3: disregarding of your opinion. I don't know. I don't have

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Speaker 3: that level of self awareness nor the ability to reflect

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Speaker 3: back on what it was like ten, fifteen, twenty years

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Speaker 3: ago when our children were young, like this family. But

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Speaker 3: the reality is we kind of get tunnel vision. We

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Speaker 3: become fixated in the belief that the way we're seeing

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Speaker 3: the world is the way the world actually is.

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Speaker 2: Well, and it's the only way to see the world.

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Speaker 3: And anyone who's it differently must be blind or silly

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Speaker 3: or mistaken in some way. Unfortunately, we are seeing in

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Speaker 3: this email a level of disrespect associated with that which

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Speaker 3: I really struggle with now. But maybe that was me

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Speaker 3: back then as well. Hopefully you can't remember me being

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Speaker 3: like that.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't ever remember you talking to me like that.

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Speaker 2: I think one of the central challenges it actually puts

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Speaker 2: your children in a really challenging position because now they

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Speaker 2: recognize that there isn't alignment, and they're going to go

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Speaker 2: back and forth between you and actually create more challenges

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Speaker 2: because they.

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Speaker 3: Just want what they want true.

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Speaker 2: And they're going to do whatever they can to get it.

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Speaker 2: One of the things I've loved about the relationship that

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Speaker 2: you and I share is that there have been plenty

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Speaker 2: of times that we've disagreed, but whenever our children have

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Speaker 2: tried to conquer and divide, their number one complaint is

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Speaker 2: they'll go and ask you, and what do you say?

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Speaker 3: What did Mum say? And it's not because I'm being lazy,

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Speaker 3: it's because I won't have that disagreement in front of

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Speaker 3: the kids. We'll have the disagreement behind closed doors. So

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Speaker 3: we disagree, they.

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Speaker 2: Come and ask me, and I tell them to go

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Speaker 2: and ask dad.

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Speaker 3: Well, because you don't want to make a decision, you're

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Speaker 3: not actually worried about alignment. You just don't want to

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Speaker 3: have to make a call on things. But what we're

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Speaker 3: really trying to do here as a couple is when

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Speaker 3: we disagree on things like we disagree. We used to

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Speaker 3: disagree very much on discipline in the early days, very

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Speaker 3: very strong disagreement around that. Then when we got over that,

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Speaker 3: we disagreed about things like how much homework the kids

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Speaker 3: should be doing. I've got a strict no homework policy

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Speaker 3: for our kids in primary school unless it's reading. You've

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Speaker 3: always said, don't rock the boat, just let them do

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Speaker 3: their homework. They want to do it anyway. And over

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Speaker 3: time we've worked that out bit by bit, mainly because

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Speaker 3: I've been away traveling and teaching people how to have

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Speaker 3: happy families, and so you've just got the kids to

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Speaker 3: do their homework anyway. We've had a different view on naplan.

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Speaker 3: We've had a different view on how many extracurricular activities

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Speaker 3: the kids should be doing. My view is, let's give

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Speaker 3: them every enrich an opportunity that we can, even if

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Speaker 3: we can't afford it, even if it means we're going

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Speaker 3: to be broke for the entire time that we're raising

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Speaker 3: our chidren, because I want them to learn those instruments

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Speaker 3: and play those sports and have those enriching experiences, and

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Speaker 3: you've had a more can we simplify our lives approach,

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Speaker 3: So we've had a lack of alignment on a variety

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Speaker 3: of issues. When I read this email, my number one point,

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Speaker 3: outside of the lack of respect that's been shown to Mum,

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Speaker 3: at least in the way that she's reported the incident,

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Speaker 3: my number one concern is can we have these conversations

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Speaker 3: without the children being present? Can we really understand one

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Speaker 3: another and work things out?

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Speaker 2: So when I think about this situation, to me, this

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Speaker 2: is actually less about parenting, and this is actually more

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Speaker 2: about alignment as a couple, the challenges that you and

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Speaker 2: I have experienced over the years when it comes to

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Speaker 2: being out of alignment in whatever area it could be. Anything.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't have to be about the children, it could be anything.

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Speaker 2: It actually stems back to a foundational misalignment. It's not

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Speaker 2: about one specific thing. So if we want to actually

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Speaker 2: get on the same page as parents, then we actually

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Speaker 2: have to take a step back to the root relationship,

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Speaker 2: which is you and I.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so let's talk about that, and then we'll discuss

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Speaker 3: the respect issue, because I think it has to be addressed,

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Speaker 3: but we'll save that for the last when it comes

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Speaker 3: to obtaining alignment, it's critical at the outset that we

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Speaker 3: actually know what we want. This is so important when

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Speaker 3: it comes to your children and the pool, or when

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Speaker 3: it comes to your children and discipline, or when it

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Speaker 3: comes to your children homework or extracurricular activities. Knowing what

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Speaker 3: you want is the first step to creating alignment because

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Speaker 3: until you can identify and articulate what it is that

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Speaker 3: you want, the other person, if they do know what

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Speaker 3: they want, they'll always I'm going to use the word

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Speaker 3: win in inverted commas because it's not really a competition,

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Speaker 3: but their view because they know what they want, will

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Speaker 3: become the prevailing view because they're able to articulate it.

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Speaker 3: And the person who can clearly articulate and enunciate what

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Speaker 3: they want will prevail. They will be the one who

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Speaker 3: steer the ship because they know what they want, they

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Speaker 3: know what direction they're heading in. So being really clear

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Speaker 3: about what you want is critically important.

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Speaker 2: So you're talking about what you want as a family, what.

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Speaker 3: You want as a family, but also what you want

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Speaker 3: in terms of discipline, or what you want in terms

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Speaker 3: of the children having access to the swimming pool, or

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Speaker 3: what you want in terms of television and screens, and

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Speaker 3: the list goes on what do we want. Do we

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Speaker 3: want to have children who do whatever they want with

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Speaker 3: their screens whenever they want, or do we want to

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Speaker 3: have select times that are really truly reserved for time

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Speaker 3: together as a family with screens off, like bedtime, or

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Speaker 3: like dinner time, or like time in the car. So

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Speaker 3: it's about knowing what you want and why you want it.

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Speaker 3: If you can get what and why, that means that

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Speaker 3: you're going to be far more effective in communicating that

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Speaker 3: with your partner. If any conflict comes up, you might

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Speaker 3: resist and react, what are you doing? Why are you

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Speaker 3: doing that? I'm not okay with that? But when they

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Speaker 3: say why you you sort of stammer and stumble and say,

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I just don't. I don't want them

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Speaker 3: to be able to do that. So knowing what is important.

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Speaker 3: But my second key thing is that you've got to

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Speaker 3: be able to then know why, because when you and

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Speaker 3: I are having a conflict about what's going on with

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Speaker 3: the children, where trying to articulate to one another why

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Speaker 3: the children should be doing all those extra care curricular

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Speaker 3: activities or a whole lot less extracurricular activities. The person

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Speaker 3: who is able to make their argument well doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: they win, but they're going to be more persuasive in

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Speaker 3: the eyes of the other one. If I can tell

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Speaker 3: you that I want the children to be doing these

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Speaker 3: extracurricular activities because it's enriching for them and it's good

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Speaker 3: for their social situation. They may make more friends, it

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Speaker 3: upskills them, and as they're adults, they'll have more of

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Speaker 3: a sense of confidence and confidence because of all the

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Speaker 3: things that they've done. Also, the research shows that it's

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Speaker 3: good for their brains.

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Speaker 2: And it's always about the research.

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Speaker 3: But when we step into that conversation, that doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: that I'm going to dominate or win, and that's not

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Speaker 3: it at all, but it helps you to I guess

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Speaker 3: see that there's a really strong rationale from where I'm

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Speaker 3: coming from. It doesn't mean I'm right, but it means

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Speaker 3: that I'm really clear on that Your response to me,

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Speaker 3: why it might be those things are all well and good,

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Speaker 3: but our family is busy and this is taking an

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Speaker 3: enormous toll on you because you've got to go and

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Speaker 3: earn all the money to pay for all these extracurricical

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Speaker 3: activities that we can't afford because we're spending X number

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Speaker 3: of one hundred dollars because we have this many children

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Speaker 3: and it's this much every week. And by slowing our

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Speaker 3: family down, we get to enjoy one another more. And

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Speaker 3: I'm running around all over the place and it costs

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Speaker 3: a fortune to fill the car. And so then you're

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Speaker 3: articulating your position. Not that we're trying to have a

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Speaker 3: fight here, but it's about understanding the why now.

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Speaker 2: And I've loved over the years as we've had these

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Speaker 2: kinds of conversations, my initial response is just to shut down.

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Speaker 2: You've got this big rationale, you know what you're talking about,

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Speaker 2: and I just I literally just shut down. I give up.

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Speaker 3: Which is one of the problems with articulating and saying, well,

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Speaker 3: you tell me what you think, and I'll to you

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Speaker 3: what I think. Psychologists will often say, let's just hear

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Speaker 3: both sides of the story. But the person who is

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Speaker 3: more articulate, the person who can make their argument stronger,

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Speaker 3: kind of gives them an unfair advantage. Not everybody is

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Speaker 3: going to be that strong on the way they explain

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Speaker 3: their position.

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Speaker 2: But what I've loved is that when I have a

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Speaker 2: tendency to do that. You've actually stopped me and said, no,

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Speaker 2: I really want to understand why do you feel so

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Speaker 2: strongly about this? Can you tell me? And so that's

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Speaker 2: allowed me to then share what I'm thinking, what I'm feeling.

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Speaker 2: And sometimes it's worked that you've kind of gone, oh,

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Speaker 2: I get it now, and we've gone my way, But

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Speaker 2: there have been plenty of times where we've gone I

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Speaker 2: can see what you're saying now, I completely understand, but

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Speaker 2: can you actually see from my point of view that

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Speaker 2: the things that you're worried about are actually counted over

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Speaker 2: here or whatever the scenario is. And I just I

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Speaker 2: think that when you're in a relationship, the ability that

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Speaker 2: you have number one to communicate and number two to collaborate.

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Speaker 2: This doesn't just go one way. This is a two

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Speaker 2: way conversation and it takes the two of us to

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Speaker 2: work it out, and.

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Speaker 3: That's why it's a marriage or a partnership. So my

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Speaker 3: strong preference in a situation like this for this listener

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Speaker 3: who has emailed us is to suggest that we use

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Speaker 3: the three e's. But you can't do it in the

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Speaker 3: moment because nobody thinks clearly when they're emotionally.

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Speaker 2: Elevated, well I guess that was the other thing I

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Speaker 2: was going to bring up is just the fact that

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Speaker 2: we're often trying to have these conversations when things are heated.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, not going to work. High emotions, low intelligence, So explore,

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Speaker 3: explain it, empower. Let's say this was between you and

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Speaker 3: I and you were the one that said, just let

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Speaker 3: them swim and this is ridiculous, And I was the

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Speaker 3: one saying no, no, we've got rules, like our nine year

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Speaker 3: old can't swim because we're gonna have these problems. And

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Speaker 3: you said, just don't be silly. They do whatever they want,

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Speaker 3: and you override me in front of the kids, and

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Speaker 3: it all blows up later that afternoon, later that evening,

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Speaker 3: maybe the next day. I'm going to say, I want

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Speaker 3: to have a chat with you about what happened yesterday

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Speaker 3: with that pool incident. Are you open to talking with

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Speaker 3: me about it? And hopefully you'll say yes. If you

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Speaker 3: say no, then I know that there are much deeper

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Speaker 3: issues in the relationship. Oka this becomes about disrespect, this

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Speaker 3: becomes about power, this becomes about domination. It's a really

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Speaker 3: unhealthy dynamic in the relationship that's going on. But so

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Speaker 3: long as you're willing to say, yeah, yeah, we probably

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Speaker 3: should chat about it. Then I'm going to say what

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Speaker 3: was going on with that yesterday? Because we've talked about

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Speaker 3: this and you kind of just stomped all over all

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Speaker 3: the rules we've made up, and you stomped all over

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Speaker 3: me and left me feeling really confused. Now you'll note

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Speaker 3: that I'm expecting that you will take ownership, but I'm

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Speaker 3: keeping it gentle and light, and I'm saying what was

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Speaker 3: going on. I'm exploring, you know, the three e's of

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Speaker 3: effective discip one. I'm exploring what happened and how come?

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Speaker 3: And it might be that you say, you know what,

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Speaker 3: I'm so tired, I'm so stressed. The kids have been

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Speaker 3: driving me up the wall. You've walked in and you're

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Speaker 3: going to be the Disneyland dad, But I just I

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Speaker 3: needed some space and I also wanted to be with you,

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Speaker 3: and that's why I just said that they could go.

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Speaker 3: And all of a sudden, the whole situation makes sense.

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Speaker 3: I know it's contextual rather than a blanket rule. A

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Speaker 3: big problem that we've got, and I know that you

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Speaker 3: were you had great intentions, but it was just poorly executed.

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Speaker 3: And so just getting you to explain that to me

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Speaker 3: is I explore with you. That's all I need. I

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Speaker 3: can say, Oh, give me a heart. It's been so rough,

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Speaker 3: hasn't it. Let's figure this out. What do we do

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Speaker 3: next time so that we don't end up in this

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Speaker 3: horrible situation. But there's the explore explained in power. Now

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Speaker 3: if I try to have this conversation I get more

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Speaker 3: of the disrespect that we saw in that email, then

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Speaker 3: I think this is where we start to go. Where

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Speaker 3: is this self focused response coming from? Where is this

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Speaker 3: dynamic that is so dominance oriented built upon? And I

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Speaker 3: actually think I want to say this really gently. I

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Speaker 3: think that if we're in a situation where a partner

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Speaker 3: in the relationship is not allowed to have a voice,

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Speaker 3: that some serious questions about the relationship need to be

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Speaker 3: asked and help needs to be gotten. How do we

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Speaker 3: develop boundaries, how do we communicate through conflict? How do

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Speaker 3: we figure this stuff out? Because if it's not going

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Speaker 3: to be the pool, it's going to be screens, or

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Speaker 3: it's going to be school, or it's going to be friends,

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Speaker 3: or it's going to be the list is endless. So

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Speaker 3: as a couple, we've got to be able to work

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Speaker 3: it out. The short version of this explore, explain it, empower,

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Speaker 3: try to understand where are they coming from, what happened there.

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Speaker 3: That's not how we normally deal with things, and that's

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Speaker 3: how you get on the same page. If there's an

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Speaker 3: unwillingness that would strike me as being a form of dominance,

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Speaker 3: it would be an inappropriate relationship dynamic. It's not a

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Speaker 3: safe dynamic, and it leads to I think selfishness. That's

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Speaker 3: not what a good relationship is built on. And that's

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Speaker 3: the kind of relationship where people really need help. And

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Speaker 3: so hopefully our podcast listener who sent this email through

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Speaker 3: can get that help. I know that there's probably a

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Speaker 3: lot more that we can add, but our time is

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Speaker 3: up and in the podcast we can't provide a fully

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Speaker 3: comprehensive answer. So a quick restate. Ideally have agreement, have

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Speaker 3: alignment ahead of time. But if there is no alignment,

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Speaker 3: then work it out behind closed doors. We don't want

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Speaker 3: the kids to see us having a big blow up

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Speaker 3: about what the rules are or are not.

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Speaker 2: It actually creates a level of insecurity in our children.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it does.

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Speaker 2: They need predictability and they need to know that their

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Speaker 2: stability in the relationship and in the.

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Speaker 3: Rules, not that your children should never see you have

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Speaker 3: any disagreement. Number one, that's impossible, but number two, it's

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Speaker 3: good for them to see that you do have disagreement,

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Speaker 3: but that you can work it out. The ability to say,

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Speaker 3: we're disagreeing about this, why don't we have a chat

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Speaker 3: about it a little later and see if we can

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Speaker 3: work it out when we're not both feeling a little

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Speaker 3: bit emotional about it. If the kids can see you

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Speaker 3: do that, you're now modeling really effective conflict resolution. And

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Speaker 3: then you can go to the kids the next day

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Speaker 3: and say, you know, how that thing happened yesterday between

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Speaker 3: the two of us around this issue, what we chatted about

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Speaker 3: it last night, and this is what we've agreed on.

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Speaker 3: So we're teaching the children that we can have disagreements,

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Speaker 3: that we can work through them, and that we can

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Speaker 3: find resolutions. And the best way to get those resolutions

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Speaker 3: is to explore, explain, and empower. I just think there's

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Speaker 3: so much power in saying to your partner, where are

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Speaker 3: you on this? I feel as though we're not aligned

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Speaker 3: at all, and I thought we were. Can you just

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Speaker 3: fill in the blanks for me, what's happened? How come

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Speaker 3: you've shifted, just exploring and then explaining, so I'm still

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Speaker 3: here and this is why, and then empowering, So where

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Speaker 3: do you think we should go from here? How can

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Speaker 3: we get alignment on this? I guess the last point

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Speaker 3: that I would make, Kylie, is that nobody's ever going

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Speaker 3: to be fully aligned with their husband, wife, spouse, partner.

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Speaker 3: It's just it's not going to happen. You and I

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Speaker 3: still don't agree on everything. There's a lot that will

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Speaker 3: have minor discrepancies and disagreements about, but we never let

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Speaker 3: those things become bigger than our relationship.

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Speaker 2: I was having a conversation with our eldest daughter the

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Speaker 2: other day. Been away for the weekend with another couple,

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Speaker 2: and they just fought the whole weekend.

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Speaker 3: The other couple fought the other couple, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And she kind of just looked at it and she

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Speaker 2: was like, I've never experienced anything like this before. And

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Speaker 2: one of the days she was talking to the guy

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Speaker 2: and he was just like, this is just like Fawn,

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Speaker 2: she said. And she just said, you've just been fighting

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Speaker 2: like the whole time, and he said, well, she always

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Speaker 2: wants to have a fight. She's gonna fight. I'm going

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Speaker 2: to fight back and Chanelle's response was, mate, there always

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Speaker 2: needs to be a teddy bear in the relationship.

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Speaker 3: And she didn't get that from me.

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Speaker 2: Well, as she talked about it, she said, Mom, she said,

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Speaker 2: it really comes down to how you've been brought up,

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Speaker 2: doesn't it, she said, because I think back on my childhood,

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Speaker 2: and she said, I really I can't think if very

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Speaker 2: many times where you and dad were outwardly aggressive and

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Speaker 2: angry with each other. She said, for sure, you disagreed,

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Speaker 2: she said, but I just watched how you and Dad

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Speaker 2: dealt with things, and it was usually Dad, she acknowledged

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Speaker 2: it was usually Dad was the big daddy bear. He

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Speaker 2: just come and give you a big hug and tell

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Speaker 2: you how much he loved you, and that there was

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Speaker 2: nothing that I could do that would change the way

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Speaker 2: you felt about me. And I just thought, again, so

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Speaker 2: often as a parent you kind of sit there and

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Speaker 2: you go, oh, we've had so many arguments, but what

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Speaker 2: the kids have seen is how we've resolved it. It's

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Speaker 2: not actually the argument that stands out to them, it's

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Speaker 2: the way things end.

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Speaker 3: Well, now you've got my eyes leaking. Thank you for

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Speaker 3: sharing that. I guess to wrap up now that you've

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Speaker 3: said that, I want this mum who send us this

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Speaker 3: email to really consider what's going on with her husband.

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Speaker 3: Why is he responding the way that he is and

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Speaker 3: can she coax him into a more open conversation. Is

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Speaker 3: he open to exploring, explaining and empowering. Is he open

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Speaker 3: to conversations where there's a collaboration. Because a great parenting relationship,

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Speaker 3: whether you're co parents or whether you're a couple, comes

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Speaker 3: down to recognizing that this is a partnership. It only

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Speaker 3: works if you work together and the kids will thrive

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Speaker 3: so much more if there is security in that relationship.

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Speaker 3: We really hope that this has been a helpful conversation.

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Speaker 3: The Happy Famili's podcast is produced by Justin Roland from

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Speaker 3: Bridge Media, with Craig Bruce as our executive producer. For

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Speaker 3: more information about making your family happy, we would love

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Speaker 3: for you to join us at Happy Families dot com

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00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,359
Speaker 3: dot au or visit our Facebook page. Our Facebook page

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Speaker 3: is Dr Justin Colson's Happy Families. Tomorrow on important conversation

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Speaker 3: on a Happy Families podcast with the Australian Federal Police

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Speaker 3: about how much grooming is happening online and what we

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Speaker 3: need to do to protect our kids, and then on Thursday,

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Speaker 3: the Raising Resilient Kids Summit. If you haven't grabbed your tickets,

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Speaker 3: time is running out less than forty eight hours until

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Speaker 3: the summit kicks off. We can't wait to see you

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Speaker 3: in what will be one of the most important conversations

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Speaker 3: you can never have when it comes to raising resilient kids.

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00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:54,120
Speaker 3: We'll see you there.