1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Today's edition of the Happy Families Podcast contains adult themes. 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised. Today's tricky Question on the Happy 3 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 2: Families Podcast ties in with a brand new Netflix documentary 4 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 2: by Louis Thru called Inside the Mano Sphere. I want 5 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 2: to know what's going on when it comes to boys 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 2: and men online. Want to know what we can do 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 2: to help people to be healthier in terms of the 8 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 2: way we're raising boys and men. That's what we tackle 9 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 2: today on the Happy Families Podcast. Stay with us. 10 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,959 Speaker 3: Early twenty twenty five, after protracted negotiations and arranged two 11 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 3: days of filming with an influencer named Harrison Sullivan. Permission 12 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 3: to come aboard, of course we do with a real deal. 13 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 3: We're not YouTubers. 14 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 2: Oh okay, Hello and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. 15 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 2: Real parenting Solutions every single day on Australia's most downloaded 16 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 2: parenting podcast. We are Justin and Kylie Colson, and every 17 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 2: Tuesday on the podcast we answer your tricky questions about 18 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 2: family and relationships and well being and screens and discipline 19 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 2: and the manisphere. Today. If you'd like to submit a 20 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 2: tricky question, you can do it via our super simple 21 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 2: system at happy families dot com dot you. You just 22 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 2: scroll down to podcasts, click the record button and start talking. 23 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 2: Or alternatively, you can send us a voice note to 24 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 2: podcasts at happy families dot com dot you. We received 25 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 2: this one from Ella in Vic. 26 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 4: Hi, justin this is Ala. I just watched Louis Thurow's 27 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 4: new documentary Inside the Manisphere, and it's absolutely terrifying. I 28 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 4: just had a baby boy twelve weeks ago, and I'd 29 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 4: love to hear your thoughts on how to raise boys 30 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 4: in a world where there are men like this influencing them. 31 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 4: Thank you. 32 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: I remember being that anxious first time mum and feeling 33 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: the weight of the world on my shoulders, wondering how 34 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: I was going to raise a child in today's world. 35 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: I haven't watched The Manisphere. I've heard a lot of 36 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: commentation around it, but I'm wondering what is all of us? 37 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 2: So first of all, I've never heard the word commotation before, 38 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 2: but I love it. That's so good. I feel like 39 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 2: there's some tension right now just thinking about what this 40 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 2: doco is and what's in there and the topics that 41 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 2: we need to discuss today. But commotation, commotation knock me. No, no, no, 42 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 2: I just wanted to say that. So I watched it 43 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 2: on the weekend because I've been getting media requests left, 44 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 2: right and center about it. And I didn't invite you 45 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 2: to watch it with me because I figured you probably didn't. 46 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 2: You don't need that in your life, right. The first 47 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 2: thing that I would actually say to Ella is you've 48 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:57,839 Speaker 2: got a twelve week old, so you've got plenty of time. 49 00:02:57,840 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: Plenty of time. 50 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 2: But also my hope is, and I don't know anything 51 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 2: about Ella's background, but my hope is that you have 52 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 2: really good men in your son's orbit, in your son's environment, 53 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 2: in your community. And if you do, the likelihood is 54 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 2: that your son is far less likely to be influenced 55 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:21,119 Speaker 2: by the rubbish, the filthy. It's just so depressing. There's 56 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: no other way for me to say it. I'm I 57 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: came out of watching the documentary and I just felt 58 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 2: so sad. There's no other way for me to explain it. 59 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 2: Just ah, this suck. 60 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 3: A few years ago, I noticed the parts of the 61 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 3: Internet were being taken over a lot of you eats 62 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 3: a week by a collection of male influences. 63 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 2: Were like the last stamp. 64 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 3: They claimed to be giving young men the cheat codes 65 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 3: to win at LOFE not. 66 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 5: Made six thousand pounds for four hour about this morning. 67 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 2: I already know so much of what was in the 68 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 2: doco because I've been writing a book about raising boys 69 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 2: for the last three and a half to four years. 70 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 2: Now it comes out in June. I feel like I've 71 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 2: earned the shameless plug here. If you want to raise 72 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: healthy men, jump online to book Topia and pre order 73 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 2: my book like it outlines exactly what it is to 74 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 2: build strong young men. And I do mean strong because 75 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: I want our boys to be strong, but to build 76 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 2: them from the inside out, to build their character. That's 77 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 2: the plug. That's all I'm going to say about that. 78 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 2: But I really do need to emphasize you can get 79 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: the book now on pre order, and it's worth it. 80 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 2: I just think it's going to be such an important book. Kylie, 81 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 2: Where do we start here? What do you want to know? 82 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 2: That it's obvious you haven't seen it. I have, and 83 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 2: we can answer Ella's questions as we go. 84 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: I've heard this word banded around for a little while now, 85 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: the whole idea of Manisphere, but I actually don't have 86 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: any idea what is actually trying to encompass. 87 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 2: All right, So Everyone has a different definition of manisphere, 88 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: So if you don't like my definition, don't be a hater. 89 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,799 Speaker 2: It's okay everybody. The way that I define the manisphere 90 00:04:54,880 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 2: is influencers who are male who are trying to communicate 91 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 2: with young men. Essentially, if you are a male who 92 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 2: is online and you are trying to communicate with and 93 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 2: build a business out of young men, then you're in 94 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 2: the manisphere. 95 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: So I would actually say, what's the female equivalent? 96 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 2: There's heaps of we don't call it a female a sphere. 97 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: I know that's what I'm saying, But why has this 98 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: such a big deal Because we don't talk about it's 99 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: such a big deal pluences of women in the same way. 100 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 2: Because of the extremism and the potential disproportionate harm. So 101 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 2: there are some women on the Internet who have got 102 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 2: some horrendous ideas, no doubt, across the board, across the board, right, 103 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 2: because there are people with toxic values and toxic ideas 104 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 2: all over the place. My concern is that when you 105 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 2: get into and Luis throw has a very similar definition 106 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,239 Speaker 2: to mine. He says, much of the manisphere is relatively benign. 107 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 2: It's a bunch of guys who are talking about wealth 108 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 2: and fitness and relationships and trying to make your life go. Well, 109 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 2: that's what it is. So I include things people like 110 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 2: Stephen Bartlett, the Diary of CEO, people like Theo vonn Is, 111 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 2: Chris Williams or Chris Williamson, I don't know Scott Galloway. 112 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 2: There's all of these. I would even say Joe Rogan 113 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 2: and Jordan Peterson fit into the manisphere. And while some 114 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 2: people have big reactions to some of them or all 115 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 2: of them, they're genuinely making good faith efforts with generally 116 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 2: really decent backgrounds to help young men and boys to 117 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 2: do well in their lives. But then, as throw says, 118 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 2: and again in harmony with the way I see the manisphere, 119 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 2: as you move out of the center and move towards 120 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 2: the edges, towards the periphery, towards the extremes, you get 121 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 2: more and more influencers whose content is absolutely undeniably women hating, 122 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 2: Like misogyny is a word that we overuse, but in 123 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 2: this context it's not. It's absolutely right word for what 124 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 2: these they say. They love women. I'll give you some 125 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 2: examples in a minute, but it's morality free. The algorithm 126 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 2: loves this stuff. At blow Up, millions if not billions 127 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 2: of people see the stuff, and in the inside the 128 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 2: Manisphere doco, Threau goes and interviews, sit down with, has conversations, 129 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 2: spends days with some of the bigger names in the 130 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 2: manisphere at the edgier side of things. Please note he 131 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: doesn't get to the nitty gritty, the hardcore stuff that 132 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 2: I wish he'd gone to. It's grittier and worse, believe 133 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 2: it or not. But what he brings us is enough 134 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 2: to make people like Ellis say, oh my goodness, what 135 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 2: is this world that my son is going to be 136 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 2: raised in? 137 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: So from the outset I share, I haven't watched it. 138 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: You have, and what stood out to you the most 139 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: as you were watching what actually happened? It's a documentary. 140 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: He's spending time with these people. But what am I missing? 141 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 2: Okay? First off, I'm going to come in with criticisms. First, 142 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 2: I don't think that they've emphasized nearly enough the impact 143 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 2: of what this does to girls and women or to 144 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 2: young men themselves as victims of this toxic culture. I 145 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 2: really don't think that Thireau focused enough on that, and 146 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 2: that was disappointing. And the other thing is that I 147 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 2: don't think that he went deep enough into it. Now 148 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 2: having said that, some of the stuff that he shared, 149 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:12,679 Speaker 2: I've got a couple of quotes here that I've written 150 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 2: down because I think that they're worth just spending a 151 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: minute on. One of the man of sphear men. I 152 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 2: feel uncomfortable even calling them men because I don't see 153 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 2: them as men. I see them as pathetic. There was 154 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 2: one guy, his name is hs hss Tiki Toki, who 155 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 2: when he's bringing through into his home, he points at 156 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 2: a bikini clad girl who's sitting on the couch and 157 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 2: she's literally just there scrolling the phone. I think she's 158 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 2: there to look pretty. I think that's actually why she's there, 159 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 2: because the guy doesn't have a relationship with her. But 160 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 2: he points at her, and he doesn't introduce her with 161 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 2: a name or anything about her. He just goes, so, 162 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 2: this is. 163 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 5: Make dishwasher over here, mcleano, So hello, this has gone 164 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 5: on that flix loo. 165 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 3: What's name Casey? 166 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 2: I think I've seen it, And she then keeps on 167 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 2: walking like she's she's not a person. There's another guy. 168 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 2: He's a Certanese American blogger who's got a podcast called 169 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 2: Fresh and Fit podcast. I mean, it sounds so good, right. 170 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 2: I've listened to the Fresh and Fit podcast until I 171 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 2: discover who this Myron Gains guy really is. I don't know. 172 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 2: I don't even want to tell you what he said. 173 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you what he says. Anyway. He's 174 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 2: written a book. They don't talk about this in the docco, 175 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 2: but he's written a book called Why Women Deserve Less. 176 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 2: This is who we're talking about, right, Why women Deserve Less. 177 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 2: He explains that. 178 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 6: I'm the dictator. 179 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 2: You are the subordinate. He says that the woman is subordinate, 180 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 2: that he knows what women want better than women know 181 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 2: what they want. That and I don't use course language, 182 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 2: so I need to be gentle here. But he says, 183 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 2: and I dictate when I want to put you, and 184 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 2: then you dictate when the sandwich has come by my dictation. 185 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:48,719 Speaker 2: My job is to decide when you want me and 186 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 2: how it will happen. It's that kind of thing he 187 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 2: can talk down to a woman because dominance is what 188 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 2: she actually really truly desires. There's this double standard where 189 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 2: pretty much all of the guys, a I expect whoever 190 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 2: I'm with, she must be monogamous. She must be true 191 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 2: to me, But it's a one way monogamy. The boys. 192 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: The boys can do whatever they want, and I just 193 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:12,559 Speaker 2: I said them the whole time, Colin, I'm just thinking, 194 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 2: this is not strength. Like a man who needs to 195 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 2: diminish someone or to dominate someone to show that they're 196 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 2: powerful isn't powerful. They're fragile. In my mind, this is 197 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 2: just fragility. It's core because real strength leaves people feeling 198 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 2: safer and stronger, and these guys leave people feeling smaller. 199 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 3: Are you saying you're not in a monogamous relationship one 200 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 3: side of monogamy. Yeah, women don't want to sleep with 201 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 3: other men when they love a man. 202 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: This might show my ignorance and maybe an acknowledgment that 203 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,839 Speaker 1: I live inside a very very small. 204 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 2: Bubbles, a safe, healthy bubble. 205 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: But there is no one in my circle that would 206 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: espouse those values in any way, shape or form, and 207 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 1: if they did, they wouldn't stay in my circle. Yes, 208 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: So how is it that they managed to gain so 209 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:08,439 Speaker 1: much traction? Because I think that humanity and the values 210 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: that we strive for would absolutely hands down throw that 211 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 1: kind of stuff out the door, Like there's just no 212 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 1: way you would not accept, and any woman who has 213 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: any level of self respect would I just I wouldn't. 214 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,959 Speaker 1: I'm speechless. How do they gain traction? How do people 215 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:37,679 Speaker 1: not see that this is absolutely the most horrendous kind 216 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: of behavior and instead celebrate and support. 217 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 2: I'll len's that right off the break. Stay with us, 218 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 2: We're back. This is The Happy Family's podcast, Real Parenting Solutions, 219 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 2: every single day in Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast in 220 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 2: the Matnisphere, Kylie, this is something that I've been thinking about, 221 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 2: like I said, for a couple of years, and here's 222 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 2: how I would describe it. In the manisphere. You're either 223 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,959 Speaker 2: one up or one down. You're either alpha or beta. 224 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 2: It's absolutely about winning. And these guys are preying on 225 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 2: what I'm going to call non thriving men and boys 226 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 2: or boys who are missing meaning and purpose in their lives, 227 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 2: or men and who haven't sorted out their values yet. So, 228 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 2: if you're feeling like the world is against you, if 229 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 2: things aren't working out, if you're feeling like all the 230 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 2: girls are going in other directions, if you feel like 231 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 2: you've just got to go your own way, there's a 232 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 2: movement called men going their own way. Then all of 233 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 2: a sudden, this stuff seems attractive because you get to 234 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 2: step into a community of other like minded people who 235 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 2: also feel like they're victims, who then get to blame 236 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 2: everything outside themselves for where they are now. It's true 237 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 2: that sometimes the system can make a mess of people's lives. 238 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 2: We've got examples of that in mainstream society, let alone 239 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,079 Speaker 2: going to the fringes of the manisphere to find it. 240 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 2: The system can be really harsh. But they believe that 241 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 2: everyone swallowed this blue pill and they've got the red pill, 242 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 2: and they understand exactly where things really are. And the 243 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 2: ideology that they've got is that everything's outside of their 244 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 2: control and this is their way of getting control back. 245 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 2: So they get into their forums and their groups online 246 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 2: and they say heredus things, and they support each other 247 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 2: in those things, and they reinforce those things, and eventually 248 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 2: that's where it lands. And Through pointed out very very 249 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 2: gently that his view of the manisphere is that those 250 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 2: who are the most unhelpful, the most toxic, very often, 251 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 2: not always, but very often grew up in homes where 252 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 2: they didn't have male role models or didn't have fathers 253 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 2: at all. I think that that's a point that's worth 254 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 2: pausing on. For Ella, if you want your boy to 255 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 2: grow up and have a strong sense of character and morality, 256 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 2: then make sure that he's surrounded by good men who 257 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 2: have a strong sense of character and morality. That's part 258 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 2: of the deal in my book about raising boys. That's 259 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 2: something that I really push hard on. We've got to 260 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 2: make sure that good role models are there. 261 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: So I've heard enough to know that I definitely do 262 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: not want to watch this. 263 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, which is funny because I would actually recommend. 264 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: This conversation is leading me down a very very clear part. 265 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: This is not something I need in my life. But 266 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: I want to go back to the conversation where you 267 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: were sharing it. A few of the examples that came 268 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: out of the documentary before we started recording, you talk 269 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: to me about specifically about violence towards women that was 270 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: not good. 271 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 2: I forgot to mention that, can you just share with us? 272 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: Yeah? 273 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't even like saying what I'm about 274 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 2: to say. There's a guy that they interviewed. His name 275 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 2: is Sneako. One of his early videos, these guys just 276 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 2: say and do the most atrocious things in one of 277 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 2: these videos, And I'm sorry for even saying this. I 278 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 2: feel like I have to apologize before I say it. 279 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 2: Sneako says that a woman should be hit hard, hit once, 280 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 2: and then sent back into the kitchen again. I just 281 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 2: and millions of men pile on the praise. It defies 282 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 2: comprehension when you hear and see that. And like I said, 283 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 2: it's not the worst of what's out there through his 284 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 2: documentary is actually sanitized compared to what's out there. It's 285 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 2: a sewer, and the closer you get to the edge, well, 286 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 2: actually you go over the edge. Really, it's just a sewer. 287 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 2: One of the guys HS again was asked how he 288 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 2: felt about thirteen year old boys coming up to him 289 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 2: for selfies, and he said. 290 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 6: That's the parents fault. That's not my fault. I don't 291 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 6: need to send to myself. I'll say what I want. 292 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 6: I've had thirteen year olds come up to me and 293 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 6: I'm like, mate, why are you watching my stuff? You're 294 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 6: too young to watch my stuff. 295 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 2: Thirteen years I can't believe they're watching it. But that's 296 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 2: the parent's fault. So just this total abrogation of responsibility, 297 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 2: that's the parent's fault. You know what, you know why 298 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 2: they're actually doing it. They're doing it for cash. This 299 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 2: is a business. Yeah, this is actually a business. This 300 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 2: is the whole model. Let's exploit the algorithm that pushes 301 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 2: and promotes increasingly extreme content, because if we do this, 302 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 2: it's commerce that's become ideology, and the algorithm keeps rewarding 303 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 2: the extremity, and the more outrageous the content, the more 304 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 2: it spreads. They're just these guys. They see themselves as entrepreneurs. 305 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 2: I would say that they are entrepreneurs, but they do 306 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 2: not have a conscience. It's just it's horrid. Last thing, 307 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 2: because we need to wrap up. Through has this conversation 308 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 2: again with Hs. He sort of makes up he's one 309 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 2: of the main characters in it, and Through just says, 310 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 2: why not try to be a good person? Like, why 311 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 2: not just try to be a good person? And here's 312 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 2: here's what HS says in response. 313 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 5: If I've just done good things, I would never have 314 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 5: really blown up on social media in the first place. 315 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 5: If I was just thinking, right, I don't want to 316 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 5: upset anyone. I don't want to do anything that's I 317 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 5: wouldn't have been where I'm at now, and I'm not 318 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 5: living for other people. I'm living for myself. 319 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 2: Well, that's it for a second. 320 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: I have to the problem. 321 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 2: I have to be repulsive. I have to be a 322 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 2: morality free zone. I have to be I have to 323 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 2: discard my conscience because that's how I make cash and 324 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 2: that's how I get clout. 325 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 1: But I think it's deeper than that. It's an absolute 326 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: acknowledgement that no one else matters know. We're stuck in 327 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: the teenage boy brain. There is no that's right, there 328 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: is no no one else. 329 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 2: No in a work. No again. I'm not trying to 330 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 2: actually push my book here. I'm trying to make a point. 331 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,360 Speaker 2: My book is called Boys, but the subtitle was we took. 332 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 2: I argued with my publisher for more than six months 333 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 2: about the subtitle building strong young men from the inside out. 334 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 2: I want boys to be strong. I want them to 335 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 2: feel strong. There is something manly about feeling strong. I'm 336 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 2: fifty and I'm feeling stronger now than I've felt in 337 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 2: decades because I'm doing something about feeling strong, and it 338 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 2: feels fantastic, it feels amazing. But we want to build 339 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 2: strong young men from the inside out, and the madnessphere 340 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 2: is precisely the opposite of that. It's just it's a sewer, So. 341 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,479 Speaker 1: Just asking for a friend. Is it actually worth watching? 342 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,199 Speaker 2: I think that parents should watch it, Yes, but I 343 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 2: say it with huge caveats, and with huge just be prepared. 344 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 2: You're not going to watch it and go I'm so glad. 345 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 2: I spent ninety minutes on that. If you've got kids, it's. 346 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 1: So, is this just something that parents of boys would watch. 347 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 2: I think parents have daughters should watch it as well, 348 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 2: because this because your daughters are spending time with those boys. 349 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 2: You don't need to watch it. You need to be 350 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 2: a great example, and you need to have good conversations 351 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 2: with your kids consistently, whether they're boys or girls. The 352 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 2: reason I'm suggesting to watch it is because then you 353 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 2: can say to the kids, what do you think? But 354 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 2: I wouldn't be watching it with kids under I'd say 355 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 2: under fifteen, maybe sixteen. There's some pretty explicit sexual content. 356 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,719 Speaker 2: There's really coarse language throughout. It's just pretty heavy stuff. 357 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 2: So be mindful of who you're watching it with and 358 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 2: what you're doing around that. Yeah. 359 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: So its spend a pretty heavy, awful conversation. If I'm 360 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: being completely honest. 361 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 2: It's horrible. 362 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, And our job is to make parents feel good. So, 363 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: in light of what you've seen, and obviously I mean 364 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 1: spending years of research and time as you've worked on 365 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: this book for boys, what can parents actually do? 366 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 2: Okay? So I shared a couple of things already, and 367 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 2: this is very much for Ella and any other parent 368 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 2: of a boy who's freaking out right now. At number one, 369 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 2: great role models, great male role models, role models generally, 370 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:34,959 Speaker 2: but great male role models. Boys want to look up 371 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 2: to men, and you know the funny. 372 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: Thing, but I actually think they need both though. I 373 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: think they need to strong women who will stand up 374 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: for themselves and not accept poor behavior. 375 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 2: When great I love that absolutely. The other thing that 376 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 2: I would add is that my research shows that boys 377 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 2: do look up to their dads if their dads can 378 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 2: have some integrity and have some character, and they don't 379 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 2: expect them to have six packs, they don't expect them 380 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 2: to look like they should be on the front cover 381 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 2: of Men's Health. Boys just love it when their dads 382 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 2: spend time with them, talk with them and listen to them, 383 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 2: teach them stuff. That's what boys want. Universally. They are 384 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 2: crying out for their dads. They are crying out for 385 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 2: their dads. So that's the first thing that I'd say, 386 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 2: strong role models, especially dad, or safe, healthy role models 387 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 2: in their environment. If they don't have a dad, who's available. 388 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 2: Second thing that I would say is having conversations, having 389 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 2: consistent conversations about moral topics. That's part of raising kids. 390 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 2: We have got to teach them character because they're not 391 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 2: going to learn it anywhere else, especially on the internet 392 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 2: and not at school either. We've got to have conversations 393 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 2: about who you want to be, what your values are, 394 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:40,479 Speaker 2: what you do in this situation or that situation. Hit 395 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 2: them with hypotheticals. Something that you loved about getting married 396 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 2: to me when we dated is the conversations we often 397 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 2: had in our dates was what would you do in 398 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 2: this situation? How did you feel if we had a 399 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 2: childhood did that? What would your response be? In blah, 400 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 2: Like I was just constantly throwing hypotheticals at you. I 401 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,719 Speaker 2: wanted to understand your character. I want to understand who 402 00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 2: you were because somebody's going to live with you forever 403 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 2: to know that you were the kind of person whose 404 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 2: morality and value system was consistent with mine. And you 405 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 2: get to have those conversations in a safe place around 406 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 2: the dining table with your kids, and there's just so 407 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 2: much value in that. Most of all for. 408 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 1: Ella with your twelve week your baby. Just keep them 409 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: off the internet as long as possible. 410 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but just teach your boys and your daughters. 411 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 2: Teach them this healthy masculinity means helping the people around 412 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 2: you to feel and be safer and stronger. That's it, 413 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 2: and that's what these boys are just starving for. But 414 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 2: the influencers are feeding them poison and calling it empowerment. 415 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: Big conversation, wish we didn't have to have it, but 416 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: such an important one. 417 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 2: We're gonna post about this on socials today, So jump 418 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 2: on Facebook, tell us what you thought about the doco. 419 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 2: Tell us what you think of my analysis, What did 420 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 2: I get right? What did I get wrong? What stood 421 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 2: out to you when you watched it. Would love your 422 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 2: comments and would love your conversation on our social pages 423 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 2: we're going to put on LinkedIn and YouTube and Facebook 424 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 2: and Instagram. A big thank you to Justin Rowland from 425 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 2: Bridge Media who produced the podcast today. A lot of 426 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 2: work in this one, so thank you Jr. Also to 427 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 2: Mim Hammonds who's done all of the show notes and 428 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 2: looks after our admin and additional support. If you'd like 429 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 2: more info to make your family happier, particularly on this topic, 430 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 2: jump online, go to book Topia pre order Boys by 431 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 2: Me again shameless plug, but if you want solutions, I've 432 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 2: spent the last three and a half years thinking about 433 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 2: what they are, and they're in the book Boys Raising 434 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 2: strong young men from the inside out. You can pre 435 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 2: order it now online wherever you get your books, but 436 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 2: book Topia will probably be your best bet. And if 437 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,400 Speaker 2: you want more info to make you family happier, visit 438 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 2: happy families dot com dot au.