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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to The Happy Family's podcast. This is

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Speaker 1: doctor Justin Colson. Last week had a conversation on Monday

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Speaker 1: with doctor Amantha Imber from the How I Worked podcasts

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Speaker 1: and her business Inventium. It's a great collaboration and today

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Speaker 1: we're going to continue the collaboration with another conversation.

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Speaker 2: This one is all about work life balance.

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Speaker 3: More and more, we're expected to do it all, like

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Speaker 3: be available for late night conference calls for work, take

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Speaker 3: our kids to all the different sporting activities and extracurricular

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Speaker 3: things that they have, and also somehow find time for

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Speaker 3: ourselves and some self care. Justin, is this something that

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Speaker 3: you struggle with You've got like two hundred kids or

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Speaker 3: something like that at home and counting.

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Speaker 2: I know, I don't know. I don't know how we

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Speaker 2: do it all.

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Speaker 1: There is so much for us to do, and we

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Speaker 1: often feel like we're running faster than we have strength.

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Speaker 1: I remember when everyone shut down because of COVID. Some

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Speaker 1: people remember it better than others, because it kind of depends.

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Speaker 2: On where you are.

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Speaker 1: But Amantha, do you remember the things that people were

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Speaker 1: saying during COVID about how the lockdown had changed our

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Speaker 1: perspective's changed our mind about how much we try to

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Speaker 1: cram into our lives and how we balance our lives.

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Speaker 2: I spoke to so many people who said.

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Speaker 1: Oh, when we open up again, life is never going

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Speaker 1: to go back to normal. I'm going to keep things quiet,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to keep things connected, we're going to stay

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Speaker 1: together as a family.

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Speaker 2: And it didn't work.

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Speaker 1: We opened up and within two or three weeks everyone

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Speaker 1: was like, I need to sign up for this. We've

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Speaker 1: got to do all of that, and we're trying to

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Speaker 1: get life going, and we're also trying to work and

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Speaker 1: pull it all together. There's so much going on. You

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Speaker 1: run a really significant business consultancy, you're an author, you've

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Speaker 1: got a tremendously successful podcast, and you've also got a

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Speaker 1: gorgeous little daughter. Surely you're noticing this as well. Do

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Speaker 1: you feel stretched and pulled from bill to posts or

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Speaker 1: is it just the dads of six daughters.

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Speaker 3: I do feel stretched, and I will say to avoid

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Speaker 3: that feeling of stretchess. And when I feel my stress

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Speaker 3: levels rising because I've taken on too much or I'm

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Speaker 3: trying to do too much, the word that I come

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Speaker 3: back to is no, and I have to remind myself

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Speaker 3: to say that more often. I heard this great tip

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Speaker 3: from Professor Katie Milkman when I need to read here

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Speaker 3: on how I work.

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Speaker 2: And I have her book on my shelf just here.

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Speaker 3: How to Change. Yeah, it's such a great read. Now,

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Speaker 3: something that Katie did, and you know, as an in

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Speaker 3: demand academic author speaker, she gets a lot of requests

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Speaker 3: made on her time. She formed what she called a

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Speaker 3: no club. So particularly, I think particularly women struggle with this.

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Speaker 3: The research would suggest is women are more likely to

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Speaker 3: say yes to what are called non promotable activities, particularly

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Speaker 3: in the workplace, like things like taking minutes in a

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Speaker 3: meeting or organizing the work Christmas party. Things that are like,

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Speaker 3: you know, the act of a good citizen, but are

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Speaker 3: not going to drive you forward closer to say your

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Speaker 3: your career goals. And so Katie linked up with some

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Speaker 3: other business school professors and now when she gets an

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Speaker 3: opportunity presented to her or someone's asking for her time

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Speaker 3: and she instinctively wants to say yes because she wants

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Speaker 3: to help, she takes that to her no club who

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Speaker 3: give her a more objective view on really, Katie, should

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Speaker 3: you say no to this instead of yes? And I

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Speaker 3: love that idea of a no club.

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Speaker 1: So this wasn't something that I planned on talking about

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Speaker 1: when we initially discussed this topic. But you sharing Katie

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Speaker 1: Milkman's idea about the no club as a male, Like

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Speaker 1: you said, this may be along gender lines. I've never

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Speaker 1: really had a hard time saying no, and I think

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Speaker 1: that that is a bit of a I don't know

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Speaker 1: if it's a male privileged thing or just a privileged

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Speaker 1: thing generally, but I'm pretty comfortable with giving a good

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Speaker 1: old fashion not going to fit in the schedule.

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Speaker 2: But near Ale, who wrote that.

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Speaker 1: Brilliant book Indiestractable, he talks about how at the beginning

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Speaker 1: of the week, if you just sit down and think

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Speaker 1: about what you value the most in terms of who

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Speaker 1: do I want to be in five years or three years,

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Speaker 1: or six months or ten years, Who do I want

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Speaker 1: to be as a parent, Who do I want to

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Speaker 1: be as.

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Speaker 2: An employee or an employer or whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: And when I'm scheduling my activities for the week, I

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Speaker 1: need to make sure that I'm putting into my week

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Speaker 1: the things that will help me to be that in

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Speaker 1: three years, five years, ten years. That's another I think

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Speaker 1: maybe a spin on the no club where you can say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: if I want to be an author, or if I

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Speaker 1: want to be an entrepreneur, or if I want to

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Speaker 1: just be a damn good mum, what are the three

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Speaker 1: things that I have to put into my calendar this

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Speaker 1: week so that I'm doing that today day? Because if

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Speaker 1: I'm not doing it today, I'm not going to be

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Speaker 1: good at it in three years time. And for me,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of I guess a productivity hack or a

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Speaker 1: time management thing. But every single not every single week,

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Speaker 1: but most weeks, I schedule a date with my wife.

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Speaker 1: We just we have that time together. It's got to happen.

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Speaker 1: Friday is our adventure day. In addition to that, most

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Speaker 1: Friday mornings, I schedule a meeting for breakfast with a friend.

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Speaker 1: And it's not really a meeting. It just goes into

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Speaker 1: my diary as a meeting because work life balance matters,

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Speaker 1: and my friendships matter, and I want to have good

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Speaker 1: friendships in three and five and ten years from now.

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Speaker 1: The only way I'll have a good friendship then is

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Speaker 1: if I build the friendship now, and if I have

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Speaker 1: those breakfasts consistently more weeks than not, with a handful

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Speaker 1: of people that I really save a time with That's

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Speaker 1: what builds that.

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Speaker 2: I make sure that I build.

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Speaker 1: The fitness stuff in as much as it's inconvenient, because

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Speaker 1: I want to be fit and healthy in three to five,

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Speaker 1: ten years. And I build in that super Saturday or

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Speaker 1: that time with the kids, the one on one because

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Speaker 1: I want to be a good dad in three or

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Speaker 1: five or ten years now.

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Speaker 3: I don't know about you justin but I occasionally take

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Speaker 3: issue with the idea of work life balance because it

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Speaker 3: implies in its very nature that work is bad, we

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Speaker 3: need to do less of it, and life is good

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Speaker 3: and we need to do more of it. But for

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Speaker 3: a lot of people, and I know for you and I,

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Speaker 3: we love our work. And so something I find more

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Speaker 3: useful is a strategy, and I call it doing a

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Speaker 3: values audit of your diary, where if you were to

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Speaker 3: literally block out every single activity that you do in

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Speaker 3: your diary, from spending time with the kids to doing

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Speaker 3: a workout at the gym or going for a bike

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Speaker 3: ride in your case, along with all the work activities

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Speaker 3: as well, if someone looked back at the last week

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Speaker 3: or the last month of your diary, would they be

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Speaker 3: able to work out what your main values are are,

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Speaker 3: And I think it's an interesting question to pose. Have

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Speaker 3: you ever done anything like this?

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Speaker 2: Justin No, but I love it.

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Speaker 1: So what you're saying, if I'm understanding you correctly, is

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Speaker 1: if I actually used my diary and accounted for every

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Speaker 1: minute of the day, all those time confetti moments where

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Speaker 1: I stared at Facebook or Instagram rather than connecting with

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Speaker 1: somebody versus the time where I'm at work, at the

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Speaker 1: time that I'm sleeping and so on. Will somebody see

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Speaker 1: what well, somebody will see what matters most to me.

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Speaker 1: But would that be congruent with what I say matters

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Speaker 1: to me? That's what I'm hearing you say exactly.

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Speaker 3: So, for example, I imagine there is not a parent

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Speaker 3: in the universe that would say work is more important

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Speaker 3: than my kids. But I would say, there are a

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Speaker 3: lot of parents' diaries that you could go into and

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Speaker 3: if they mapped out how every minute was accounted for,

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Speaker 3: work is creeping into a lot of times when you know, really,

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Speaker 3: if they were living a life that was congruent with

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Speaker 3: their values, they would probably say that work thing can wait.

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Speaker 3: I really want to spend some quality time with my

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Speaker 3: child or my kids right now.

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Speaker 1: For example, Yeah, I mean, I think there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who really love their work, and there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of people who just have a lot

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Speaker 1: of work to do and shutting off at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day. I mean, I don't in many ways,

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Speaker 1: this is terrible for me to say it, but in

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Speaker 1: so many ways, I don't want to.

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Speaker 2: Shut off because I love what I do so.

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Speaker 1: Much, and because of that, but because I also value

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Speaker 1: my family. I've had to create some specific practical rules

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Speaker 1: to get that work life balance. To use the term

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Speaker 1: that is a little bit clunky and ugly, and there

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Speaker 1: are some problems with it, but to get that so,

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Speaker 1: I've got a couple of rules, and I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you have any rules like this. One of my

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Speaker 1: rules is I don't walk into the house if I'm

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Speaker 1: on the phone, so as I'm driving home from the

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Speaker 1: office and I'm heading towards my driveway if I'm on

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Speaker 1: a phone call, which happens a lot. I mean, many

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Speaker 1: of us are in this situation, even if it's a

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Speaker 1: personal call, maybe it's not even a work call. My

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Speaker 1: commitment to my family is when I walk through the

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Speaker 1: front door, they're going to get the best of me.

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Speaker 1: My face is going to light up. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: be attentive to them. I will make them feel seen,

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Speaker 1: hurt and valued. So if I'm at a phone call,

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Speaker 1: I've done this so many times, i just start doing

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Speaker 1: laps of the block, and once I've done about five

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Speaker 1: or six laps of the block, I'll actually save the

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Speaker 1: person I'm talking to. I'm on my sixth lap around

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Speaker 1: the block because i have a commitment that I won't

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Speaker 1: walk into the house when i'm on the phone. My

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Speaker 1: family needs me. I've loved talking to you, but we've

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Speaker 1: got to wrap this up, and it changes your mindset

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Speaker 1: as you walk in and you've intentionally put that phone away.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, it makes such a difference. I've also

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Speaker 1: established some no work zones, so you can have no

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Speaker 1: work zones in terms of a physical location, so I

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Speaker 1: don't work at specific times and also in specific places

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Speaker 1: in my home. And the reason for that is because

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Speaker 1: I need to be with other people. There are WHI

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Speaker 1: or two other things that I might quickly mention and

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Speaker 1: I'd love to hear yours. I have a commitment that

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Speaker 1: I've made to Kylie since the time we were married,

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Speaker 1: that when I walk past her, I will touch her

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Speaker 1: and she does the same for me. So I have saying,

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Speaker 1: even if we've got heaps going on, the person standing

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Speaker 1: next to me in the mirror brushing her teeth is

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Speaker 1: a person with hopes and dreamed and values and wishes

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Speaker 1: and desires, And just by reaching out and acknowledging the

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Speaker 1: person by touching them, squeezing the elbow, pinching their bum,

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Speaker 1: giving them a hug, whatever it might.

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Speaker 2: Be, it says, hey, I see you. You matter to me.

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Speaker 1: I'm noticing even though we're busy. And my last one

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Speaker 1: for this work life balance thing that I'm going to

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Speaker 1: mention is the importance of when you take annual leave,

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Speaker 1: setting up your auto responder and making sure the email

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Speaker 1: hangs in cyberspace and doesn't download and sit in the inbox.

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Speaker 1: Because I love my work and I want to know

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Speaker 1: what's going on, and I want to respond to people

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Speaker 1: and get stuff done, and I don't want to come

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Speaker 1: home to three hundred emails, and so that's the only

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Speaker 1: way I've been able to do it. I've actually had

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Speaker 1: team members change my passwords so that I can't access

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Speaker 1: my social media and my email, so that I really

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Speaker 1: do zone out and pay attention to my family.

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Speaker 3: I love that strategy. I've heard that password changing one

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Speaker 3: from Brian Scootemore, who is the co founder of one

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Speaker 3: eight hundred Got Junk in America, And funnily enough, I'm

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Speaker 3: about to take a little mini break of five days,

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Speaker 3: and it's reminded me I need to do something, so

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna keep some balance and not be tempted to

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Speaker 3: hop into my email for the next five days. Justin

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Speaker 3: I'm very inspired by the things that you do at home,

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Speaker 3: particularly I like the one about not walking into the

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Speaker 3: home environment with your phone. I think this is applicable

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Speaker 3: no matter who you are, if there's other people in

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Speaker 3: your house. I mean, even if it's just your partner,

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Speaker 3: or if you don't have kids and it's just your

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Speaker 3: flatmates that are there. I think it's really nice that

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Speaker 3: we like that you have a strategy that reminds you

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Speaker 3: to put human connection first as opposed to what is

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Speaker 3: happening on a digital device.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you really quickly, just one question,

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Speaker 1: and I know we're out of time, but just briefly,

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Speaker 1: do you have like a wrap up ritual, a way

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Speaker 1: to step away away from the office and just be

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Speaker 1: done with it, or are you a bit like me,

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Speaker 1: where you really have to compel yourself to not look

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Speaker 1: at the devices even when you get home.

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Speaker 3: I do struggle. One ritual that does work for me

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Speaker 3: that I try to use more often than not is

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Speaker 3: we call it a shutdown ritual at invent Here, my consultancy,

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Speaker 3: and it involves writing two simple sentences at the end

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Speaker 3: of the work day to kind of, you know, in

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Speaker 3: the same way that people used to shut down their computer,

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Speaker 3: although no one does that now, it's kind of shutting

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Speaker 3: down your work for the day. So the two things are,

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Speaker 3: I write the sentence today I made progress on dot

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Speaker 3: dot dot. This works whether you are employed in a job,

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Speaker 3: or whether you're a full time parent or a full

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Speaker 3: time student, whatever, today I made progress on. And this

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Speaker 3: is reminding yourself what is something that you made meaningful

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Speaker 3: progress towards. There's so much great research, primarily from Parisa

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Speaker 3: professor Theresa A. Marble A from Harvard that if we

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Speaker 3: make progress towards things that matter to us, it is

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Speaker 3: a massive driver of engage and motivation. And then the

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Speaker 3: second thing is I write down tomorrow will be a

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Speaker 3: great day if I focus on X and I think

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Speaker 3: about what is the most important thing that I want

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Speaker 3: to do tomorrow that will make it a great day.

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Speaker 3: It might be a work thing, it might be related

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Speaker 3: to my daughter Frankie, or it might be related to

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Speaker 3: something completely different that matters to me.

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Speaker 1: So two quick things off the back of that. First

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Speaker 1: of all, I had no idea it was a marble a.

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Speaker 1: I've been saying it's Teresa Amabil for like the last

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Speaker 1: fifteen years. But secondly, I'm hearing you say that in

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Speaker 1: a work context, and I love it, But I also

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Speaker 1: think that it works in a family and home context.

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Speaker 1: Imagine if at about five o'clock or four o'clock, or

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Speaker 1: at some point in the afternoon, a mum a dad

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Speaker 1: grabs out the pen and says, today was a great

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Speaker 1: day because and they's essentially signing off for the day. Now,

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Speaker 1: all I've got to do is get dinner done and

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Speaker 1: we're good, or maybe they do it after dinner and

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Speaker 1: then they say, and tomorrow is going to be a

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Speaker 1: great day because and they get those priorities centered. I

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Speaker 1: don't think that it's just a workplace thing. I love

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Speaker 1: that idea, and I get the sense that it helps

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Speaker 1: us to recognize that we can be productive and have

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Speaker 1: a really nice balance in our lives.

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Speaker 3: I think it absolutely does so many applications of it,

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Speaker 3: and I think for a lot of the ideas that

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Speaker 3: we've discussed and hopefully they will bring a better balance

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Speaker 3: of work and life, or a better mix of the

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Speaker 3: two into people's lives.

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Speaker 1: I love collaborating with people, and I love the conversation

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Speaker 1: that doctor Amantha Ember and I have just had. The

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Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast for today has been produced by the

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio Network Australia. Our executive producer is Craig Bruce and

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Speaker 1: Kylie and I will be back tomorrow on the Happy

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Speaker 1: Families Podcast. If you'd like morefol about making your family happier,

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Speaker 1: please visit happy families dot comte you or check out

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Speaker 1: our Facebook page Doctor Justin Colson's Happy Families