1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:19,440
Speaker 1: She's on the Money. She's on the Money.

2
00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,759
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast

3
00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:31,840
Speaker 2: for millennials who want financial freedom, finding financial agreements? What

4
00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,640
Speaker 2: are they who needs one? And are they actually worth it?

5
00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:38,520
Speaker 2: My name is Jessica Riki and I'm not a copywriter,

6
00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,120
Speaker 2: but you should know me by now, and I am

7
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,919
Speaker 2: joining as always Miss Victoria Divine.

8
00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:45,720
Speaker 3: Hello is Jessic Goddici?

9
00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:47,240
Speaker 4: How you going?

10
00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,400
Speaker 3: And you want a Wednesday episode?

11
00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,120
Speaker 2: I know, I know, I always feel like I have

12
00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,800
Speaker 2: big shoes to fill on a Wednesday, but today it's goologized.

13
00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,640
Speaker 3: Georgia apparently has a lot to do, and you are

14
00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,440
Speaker 3: helping the team out to make sure this podcast gets

15
00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,200
Speaker 3: in their ears every single Wednesday, and it is very

16
00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:06,200
Speaker 3: much appreciated.

17
00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,959
Speaker 2: We love it. She's in demand, she's a busy woman.

18
00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:11,640
Speaker 2: But today you're actually not going to hear too much

19
00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,440
Speaker 2: from me because talking about binding financial agreements, I'm not

20
00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:19,039
Speaker 2: a copywriter. I'm also shockingly not a lawyer.

21
00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,800
Speaker 3: You don't know? Sorry, so you didn't lie on your

22
00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,080
Speaker 3: application to She's on the Money when you were trying

23
00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:27,200
Speaker 3: to get employed by us?

24
00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:28,560
Speaker 2: Absolutely not.

25
00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,399
Speaker 3: I did know that, and I'm not a lawyer either. Jess.

26
00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,520
Speaker 3: And while I talk about binding financial agreements all the

27
00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,800
Speaker 3: time as being really important, I always say speak to

28
00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,960
Speaker 3: a lawyer, because that's what you absolutely should do. So Jess,

29
00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:43,160
Speaker 3: what are we doing today?

30
00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:44,880
Speaker 4: We're gonna see to a lawyer.

31
00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:49,160
Speaker 3: Oh not me, a real lawyer. So we are lucky

32
00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,920
Speaker 3: enough that Lucy Percy from Head and Heart Estate Planning

33
00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:56,200
Speaker 3: has agreed to come on the podcast today and answer

34
00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:00,000
Speaker 3: all of our perfect questions. Jess. I had a really

35
00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,400
Speaker 3: beautiful conversation with her earlier and I can't wait.

36
00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:03,920
Speaker 4: For you to hear it.

37
00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,360
Speaker 2: I'm so excited. Let's it jump straight in.

38
00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,200
Speaker 3: We're jumping straight into this, Lucy, straight into the deep.

39
00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,919
Speaker 3: And can you tell us what's a binding financial agreement

40
00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:22,520
Speaker 3: and why do we need one?

41
00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,400
Speaker 5: Okay, So, a binding financial agreement is, as the name suggests,

42
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,760
Speaker 5: an agreement, a contract between two people. It's going to

43
00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,400
Speaker 5: operate in their lifetime. So the key thing there is

44
00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,080
Speaker 5: it's not going to cover you after death. And we

45
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:37,880
Speaker 5: are contemplating people in a relationship and they want to

46
00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,800
Speaker 5: set out the guidelines and have some certainty about what

47
00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:42,840
Speaker 5: is going to happen to the assets that they create

48
00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,000
Speaker 5: together and what is going to happen to the assets

49
00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,519
Speaker 5: that they own or control or create separate from each.

50
00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,520
Speaker 3: Other, which I think is really important. And obviously, like

51
00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,959
Speaker 3: as a financial advisor, I talk about these all the time,

52
00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,240
Speaker 3: but at the end of the day, you're the authority

53
00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,560
Speaker 3: in this area. You are literally an estate plan lawyer.

54
00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,680
Speaker 3: So putting people's things in order is your bread and

55
00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:07,160
Speaker 3: butter that you work with every single day. But what

56
00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,680
Speaker 3: kind of assets are we talking about? Are we talking

57
00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,840
Speaker 3: about things that you've already done? Like what if I

58
00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,480
Speaker 3: went and bought a house before I met Steve? Like,

59
00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:17,320
Speaker 3: is that something we'd put in there? Is it only

60
00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:18,720
Speaker 3: the stuff that we do together?

61
00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:19,640
Speaker 4: No?

62
00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:24,000
Speaker 5: Absolutely, So it can be things that you have accumulated

63
00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,440
Speaker 5: before you were together, or things that you do while

64
00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,840
Speaker 5: you're together. I think there are most of the people

65
00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,560
Speaker 5: who I refer to get funding financial agreements are in

66
00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,560
Speaker 5: a situation where they have brought different assets to the relationship.

67
00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,440
Speaker 5: They're doing their estate planning, but quite often they're living

68
00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,520
Speaker 5: in one of the properties that the other has accumulated

69
00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,640
Speaker 5: prior to the relationship. And it's not as simple as

70
00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,160
Speaker 5: saying you get out what you take in, because someone

71
00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,320
Speaker 5: might have often contributed to the mortgage repayments or capital

72
00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,520
Speaker 5: improvement and so or you know, if there's been a

73
00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,280
Speaker 5: really great capital growth, do you want that reflected in

74
00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,880
Speaker 5: some way. There's also tax benefits to living in the

75
00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,680
Speaker 5: property that say you might own as opposed to your partner,

76
00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,760
Speaker 5: and so, you know, it's a little bit tricky then

77
00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:10,840
Speaker 5: saying let's just walk away with what we bought in.

78
00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that that's a really important conversation

79
00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,040
Speaker 3: to have as well. And I know in now she's

80
00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,640
Speaker 3: on the money community, this is a bit left field, sorry, Lucy.

81
00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,000
Speaker 3: But we've had people say, oh, I just tell my

82
00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,880
Speaker 3: partner to transfer money that I use to pay my

83
00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,200
Speaker 3: mortgage off just named as rent, so that they can

84
00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,800
Speaker 3: never claim anything towards my house or if we break up,

85
00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,160
Speaker 3: they can't say that they paid half the mortgage.

86
00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,120
Speaker 4: Is that true? No, not at all.

87
00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,960
Speaker 3: And I'm really smart and I was like, let's actually

88
00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:42,200
Speaker 3: ask a lawyer this question.

89
00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,400
Speaker 5: No, there is no one size fits all approach to

90
00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,560
Speaker 5: what's going to protect your asset. And quite often it

91
00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:54,320
Speaker 5: might be a BFA in conjunction with if you're owning

92
00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:58,960
Speaker 5: property together, you can have property agreements, joint venture agreements.

93
00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,360
Speaker 5: Will you need a blanket approach, and a BFA is

94
00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,120
Speaker 5: a piece in the puzzle. Most areas of the law

95
00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:09,600
Speaker 5: can cut through what you are purporting to do and

96
00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:11,719
Speaker 5: they're actually going to look at the facts of what

97
00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,080
Speaker 5: was happening. And I think the other point to make

98
00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:19,719
Speaker 5: with family law, when a relationship deteriorates, it is not

99
00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,160
Speaker 5: so much about what was yours what was mine. It's

100
00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,720
Speaker 5: about what sort of dependency has been created.

101
00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,839
Speaker 4: Between the two people. So even if we could put

102
00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:29,200
Speaker 4: a line in the sand about.

103
00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:30,960
Speaker 5: This is yours, that's mine, and there's no difficulty in

104
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,440
Speaker 5: you know, saying that was rent only it is about

105
00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,160
Speaker 5: that dependency. And that's the way it is with a

106
00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,080
Speaker 5: state law as well. So you know, you can say

107
00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,800
Speaker 5: what you want, but the law is complex and dependency

108
00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,000
Speaker 5: is a huge part of it, not just what was yours.

109
00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's exactly why we need people like you

110
00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,440
Speaker 3: were easy, because it is different for everybody and it

111
00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,520
Speaker 3: is one of those things where we don't actually know.

112
00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,520
Speaker 3: And I think a good example of that is if

113
00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,920
Speaker 3: we feele or my male took all their time off

114
00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,320
Speaker 3: to raise kids and then they went through a divorce

115
00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,760
Speaker 3: twenty years later, it's not actually who earned what is it.

116
00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,160
Speaker 3: It's very much based on who put what in and

117
00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,760
Speaker 3: who put what in and what the dependency is, right, Like,

118
00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,200
Speaker 3: that's what you mean when you say dependency right.

119
00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,039
Speaker 4: Correct and missed opportunities.

120
00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,919
Speaker 5: So you know, if we had someone who was entrepreneurial

121
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,320
Speaker 5: or built this incredible business and the other person was

122
00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,160
Speaker 5: the stay at home or the primary carers, so exactly

123
00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,440
Speaker 5: the case for my husband and I right now, that

124
00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:36,440
Speaker 5: needs to be reflected. So yeah, definitely it is nuanced.

125
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,600
Speaker 5: And so you know, to add to that, you know

126
00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,440
Speaker 5: when you said you know, it does make lawyers important,

127
00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,919
Speaker 5: and so I would caution people against hearing the word BFA,

128
00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,320
Speaker 5: typing it into Google, finding a bot and filling it

129
00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,360
Speaker 5: out because this is an area of law where you

130
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,640
Speaker 5: need legal advice attached to the documents.

131
00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:58,160
Speaker 3: Okay, important because at the same time, I am very

132
00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,360
Speaker 3: lucky Steve and I have a blinding financial agreement. It's

133
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,240
Speaker 3: no secret, and we did go through a lawyer to

134
00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,800
Speaker 3: set it up, but it was kind of a prerequisite

135
00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:08,880
Speaker 3: of me saying you want to live with me, here's

136
00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,240
Speaker 3: the deal, and thankfully he was like, yeah, okay, no problems,

137
00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,520
Speaker 3: Like that's about you protecting your business and she's on

138
00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,480
Speaker 3: the money, and you protecting Zella and everything that you've

139
00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,120
Speaker 3: worked for. But in the same way, it was about

140
00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,720
Speaker 3: protecting his income because he has a nice job, and

141
00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:24,760
Speaker 3: I would never want to turn around and you know,

142
00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,280
Speaker 3: bite him in the bottom. I guess you could say.

143
00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,480
Speaker 3: But that was an easy conversation, I mean not super easy,

144
00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,720
Speaker 3: but an easy conversation for me to have because I'm

145
00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,960
Speaker 3: a financial advisor. Talking about money, talking about wills, doing

146
00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,160
Speaker 3: all of that kind of stuff is just second nature

147
00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,200
Speaker 3: to me. But at what stage does everybody need that?

148
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,680
Speaker 3: And how do we go about that conversation?

149
00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:47,680
Speaker 4: Yeah?

150
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:52,400
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I think when we're talking about binding financial agreements,

151
00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,320
Speaker 5: there are suppose three things that I want you to

152
00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,120
Speaker 5: think about. If you your cell phone property and you

153
00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,800
Speaker 5: are not sure if you were in it what we

154
00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,560
Speaker 5: used to call de facto, but it's actually domestic, unregistered

155
00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:09,640
Speaker 5: domestic relationship, go and get advice. If you are expecting

156
00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,760
Speaker 5: an inheritance, or if you've had a business take off

157
00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,360
Speaker 5: or an asset that has really increased, then that might

158
00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,480
Speaker 5: be a certain time to do it. When there's a

159
00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,560
Speaker 5: change in your earnings or your asset position. And the

160
00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:24,560
Speaker 5: other trigger that I want you to think about is

161
00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,200
Speaker 5: if your parents are separated, or maybe one of your

162
00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,320
Speaker 5: parents's widows and they're talking about entering into a new relationship,

163
00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,280
Speaker 5: you can share this knowledge with them and say, hey,

164
00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,040
Speaker 5: I'd feel so much more comfortable if you asked about

165
00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,640
Speaker 5: and did abiding financial agreements. So I always try and

166
00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,680
Speaker 5: tell people absorb the information for yourself and then keep

167
00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,400
Speaker 5: your ears peeled for your sister, your mum, your dad,

168
00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:47,559
Speaker 5: your aunt, like share.

169
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that one thing I've said on

170
00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,319
Speaker 3: this podcast before, and I'm sure you're probably going to

171
00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,840
Speaker 3: subscribe to this as well, Lucy, I don't mind being

172
00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,000
Speaker 3: the bad guy. You want to bring me up and say, oh, Victoria,

173
00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,840
Speaker 3: listen to this podcast. Victoria and Lucy were saying, we

174
00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,760
Speaker 3: need a binding financial agreement. Blame it on us, Say

175
00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,600
Speaker 3: we told you that you needed it to break the

176
00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,080
Speaker 3: ice and have that conversation with your partner, because it

177
00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,720
Speaker 3: is really hard if you're sitting down one night having

178
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,760
Speaker 3: some stir thriving like, oh, hey, Lucy, I was wondering,

179
00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,000
Speaker 3: have you thought about a binding financial agreement. It's a

180
00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:23,640
Speaker 3: very different conversation than maybe using Victoria and Lucy as

181
00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,480
Speaker 3: an icebreaker, which I think can be you know, a

182
00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,560
Speaker 3: little bit of a good stepping stone, So feel free

183
00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,800
Speaker 3: to abuse that and use that however you like my friends.

184
00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,280
Speaker 3: But we said before what you can use them for

185
00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,800
Speaker 3: and how that works, whether it's a business or whether

186
00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,120
Speaker 3: it is you know, inheritance. But can it be used

187
00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,199
Speaker 3: for other stuff as well? So for example, if you

188
00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,640
Speaker 3: planned on having a kid and it was agreed before

189
00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:49,839
Speaker 3: time that you would take time out to look after

190
00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,800
Speaker 3: that child, could you agree that your partner ends up

191
00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:54,720
Speaker 3: paying you a sum of their income or puts it

192
00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:56,840
Speaker 3: into super for you or something. Can that be in

193
00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:58,360
Speaker 3: a binding financial agreement.

194
00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,680
Speaker 5: Look, it's fantastic stick the people are having these conversations

195
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,079
Speaker 5: with their partner, whether or not that has a place

196
00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:09,000
Speaker 5: in the actual agreement might not be appropriate. So when

197
00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,240
Speaker 5: we write documents and agreements, we want them to be

198
00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,079
Speaker 5: able to be really easily.

199
00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:16,960
Speaker 4: Interpreted and applied.

200
00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:21,120
Speaker 5: And you know, we don't want too many contingencies in

201
00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,360
Speaker 5: the future that might not be able to be enforced.

202
00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:24,199
Speaker 4: So it might not be in.

203
00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,880
Speaker 5: Your best interest to have this really broad document that's

204
00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:28,200
Speaker 5: trying to control everything.

205
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,680
Speaker 4: And there are some things that you're just going to

206
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:31,800
Speaker 4: have to approach as a couple.

207
00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,600
Speaker 5: As life comes at you and what's appropriate at the time,

208
00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,680
Speaker 5: But we really just want to take care of the

209
00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,760
Speaker 5: nuts and bolts of your assets and things like agreements

210
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:43,920
Speaker 5: about what would happen if you had debts those Really,

211
00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:46,160
Speaker 5: you know, it's like putting the rocks in the jar

212
00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,679
Speaker 5: and then the sand might be all those things that

213
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:50,920
Speaker 5: you talk about and that flows through, but it might

214
00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:52,480
Speaker 5: not all go in the agreement itself.

215
00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:54,520
Speaker 4: But as long as you're talking about it, it's a

216
00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:55,880
Speaker 4: complete plan, all.

217
00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,160
Speaker 3: Right, Lucy. So maybe that one isn't something we can

218
00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,000
Speaker 3: add to a BEE, But what are some other things

219
00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,600
Speaker 3: we could add to bfas that we need to be

220
00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:05,040
Speaker 3: aware of?

221
00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:05,960
Speaker 4: Great question.

222
00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:08,600
Speaker 5: The main thing that I would like to see your

223
00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:13,240
Speaker 5: listeners protect themselves against in a BFA is sexually transmitted debt.

224
00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,800
Speaker 4: So maybe you have a partner gree it's yeah, a business.

225
00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,199
Speaker 5: Maybe they've got you know, I don't think we talk

226
00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,120
Speaker 5: enough about gambling addiction, ye, addiction common.

227
00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:25,880
Speaker 4: Yeah. On my first day of work as a lawyer,

228
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:26,600
Speaker 4: my boss.

229
00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,600
Speaker 5: Said to me, if there's ever money missing and you

230
00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,480
Speaker 5: don't know where it is, it'll be gambling.

231
00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,480
Speaker 4: And that has really held true for me.

232
00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,520
Speaker 3: So disappointing. That's such a good like a helpful piece

233
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,360
Speaker 3: of information to be given on your first day. We're

234
00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:44,040
Speaker 3: also like heartbreaking in a way because it's so common.

235
00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,280
Speaker 5: It is so common, and I think that people are

236
00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,360
Speaker 5: not aware of it, so you know, just be aware

237
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,280
Speaker 5: that that is sexually transmitted.

238
00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,960
Speaker 4: Debt by nature is often something that will be hidden.

239
00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:58,199
Speaker 3: And yeah, exactly, And it's so hidden and people say like, oh, well,

240
00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,400
Speaker 3: it must be a certain type of person, or it

241
00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,560
Speaker 3: must be you know, somebody else that wouldn't happen to

242
00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,760
Speaker 3: you know, people we know, but there's no profile. And

243
00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:12,040
Speaker 3: I actually have girlfriends, numerous girlfriends whose partners have essentially

244
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,880
Speaker 3: fretted away thousands and thousands of dollars. It's not uncommon.

245
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,280
Speaker 3: It's really like it's heartbreaking. But they'll say, you know,

246
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,200
Speaker 3: my partner lost ten thousand dollars or my partner, you know,

247
00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,200
Speaker 3: actually spent eighty thousand dollars over three years. Like I

248
00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:29,160
Speaker 3: have heard these conversations not from our community, from my

249
00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:30,320
Speaker 3: friendship groups.

250
00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:32,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, me too.

251
00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:34,920
Speaker 5: In my work, it's actually a question that I ask

252
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,720
Speaker 5: every single client, is there a history problematic gambling? I

253
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,080
Speaker 5: don't make the mask. I say, if there was, this

254
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,080
Speaker 5: is what we would do. And I think that having

255
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,000
Speaker 5: your debt a dealt withinner bare fey means that you

256
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,480
Speaker 5: can walk away. You know, ending a relationship is hard

257
00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:51,480
Speaker 5: enough as it is. And we also know that for

258
00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,120
Speaker 5: women who take on that debt, there's so much shame

259
00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,360
Speaker 5: that they should have known better, done better, being smarter.

260
00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,600
Speaker 3: Oh, it's not on your because you weren't educated. Not

261
00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,760
Speaker 3: everybody has an army of lawyers when they get into

262
00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,559
Speaker 3: a new relationship, Like you don't swipe right on Tinder

263
00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,760
Speaker 3: see their profile and also their debt levels, like that's

264
00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:13,480
Speaker 3: not how the world works. But Lucy, we've even had

265
00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,320
Speaker 3: money diarists more recently who have said, oh, my partner

266
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,040
Speaker 3: had a gambling debt or a debt that they know

267
00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:23,520
Speaker 3: even just illegal style debts where they have taken out

268
00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,360
Speaker 3: credit cards in their names or personal debts and they've

269
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,520
Speaker 3: been left in lurch with that and had to pay

270
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,760
Speaker 3: it off. Like this is the kind of thing that

271
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,520
Speaker 3: you could be protected from. That's really important, Like these

272
00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,000
Speaker 3: aren't little things.

273
00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:36,840
Speaker 4: That's right.

274
00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:40,440
Speaker 5: And I think also in this current economic climate where

275
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,760
Speaker 5: businesses are really suffering, you know, setting aside gambling debts,

276
00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,000
Speaker 5: this is a reality there's going to face many small

277
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,040
Speaker 5: business owners, especially people with leases that are secured or

278
00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:51,400
Speaker 5: we just really want to make sure that all of

279
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,880
Speaker 5: that is dealt within your BFA.

280
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,679
Speaker 4: You know that there's certainty that when you want to leave,

281
00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:57,320
Speaker 4: you can leave.

282
00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that is so important because we're not just

283
00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,640
Speaker 3: talking about oh, okay, protect the asset you already have.

284
00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,040
Speaker 3: You might not have any assets and still really think

285
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,520
Speaker 3: that a BFA is something that is right for you.

286
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:11,760
Speaker 4: Correct.

287
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:16,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, So obviously, given you're on this episode, Lucy, we

288
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,200
Speaker 3: as she's on the money, think it's really important to

289
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,120
Speaker 3: get proper advice around these things. And not every single

290
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:27,280
Speaker 3: person in a relationship needs to get a binding financial agreement.

291
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:28,360
Speaker 4: Right, that's correct.

292
00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,240
Speaker 3: So if we do feel like we need one, where

293
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:33,920
Speaker 3: do we go? How do we set one up? You

294
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,360
Speaker 3: said before, we shouldn't just go on Google and get

295
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:38,760
Speaker 3: a bot to do it. So Lucy, what do we do?

296
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,240
Speaker 5: Absolutely? So, I have a stable of lawyers who I

297
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,840
Speaker 5: refer to. Not all family lawyers do binding financial agreements,

298
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:52,720
Speaker 5: not all of them believe that they are enforceable in

299
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,440
Speaker 5: majority of situations, and not all of them are able

300
00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,320
Speaker 5: to deliver it in a cost effective manner. So a

301
00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:03,920
Speaker 5: binding financi agreement is only the output is only as

302
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,240
Speaker 5: good as the input, and so it's not a matter

303
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,680
Speaker 5: of simply filling out an online questionnaire and your lawyer

304
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,960
Speaker 5: will draft it. And so some lawyers really don't offer

305
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,080
Speaker 5: them because the time that it takes with a lawyer

306
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,400
Speaker 5: one on one to discuss the strategy what's appropriate, your

307
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,880
Speaker 5: partner will need a lawyer. So my recommendations to find

308
00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:28,360
Speaker 5: a lawyer are Facebook groups. Your local Facebook group. I

309
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,200
Speaker 5: always think word of mouth referrals are the best.

310
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:35,840
Speaker 3: Couldn't agree more. I'm partial to a good Facebook group louse.

311
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,040
Speaker 4: True, Well, she's on the money is local to everyone.

312
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:45,040
Speaker 5: So I might share my list of there's a dozen

313
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:47,440
Speaker 5: family lawyers who you know comes up in a state

314
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,680
Speaker 5: planning all the time. And I'm like, this covers you

315
00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,160
Speaker 5: in your death, this does not cover you in your lifetime.

316
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:53,960
Speaker 5: You need to do this as well, And so I

317
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,480
Speaker 5: have a list of names of firmsuit I.

318
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,720
Speaker 3: Oh my god, yes, we would adore that. I'll put

319
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,240
Speaker 3: it on a social media post and we'll also add

320
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,080
Speaker 3: it to our website so that people can always access them.

321
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,360
Speaker 4: Awesome, Well, that's a really good starting shortcut. I have

322
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,200
Speaker 4: prequalified them actually only last month I was like, Okay,

323
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,360
Speaker 4: who does them? I am going to highly recommend working

324
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:16,000
Speaker 4: with a lawyer.

325
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,240
Speaker 5: And if you are at the stage where you have

326
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,960
Speaker 5: an asset to protect, then I think that you're at

327
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,120
Speaker 5: the stage where you just need to invest invest in

328
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:24,720
Speaker 5: this advice.

329
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:27,360
Speaker 4: I'm in a preventative area of law.

330
00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:32,640
Speaker 5: Estate planning prevents fights, bfas prevent fights, and I think that,

331
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,440
Speaker 5: you know, I just can't stand by the value anymore

332
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:37,680
Speaker 5: than that.

333
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,920
Speaker 3: So talking about it being worth it, obviously, if you've

334
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:43,960
Speaker 3: bought a property and had that for a number of

335
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,320
Speaker 3: years before getting into a relationship, it's going to have

336
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,040
Speaker 3: been a really significant financial investment. So in my mind

337
00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,600
Speaker 3: that means that you probably should be spending a couple

338
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,520
Speaker 3: of thousand dollars to protect that asset. Like it's kind

339
00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,640
Speaker 3: of like an insurance policy that you're taking out in

340
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,320
Speaker 3: a way on your relationship, which seems a little bit morbid,

341
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,760
Speaker 3: but we know this. That's tell us, Lucy that fifty

342
00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,960
Speaker 3: percent of marriages actually end in divorce, And while that's

343
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,480
Speaker 3: not a nice thing to comprehend, it kind of justifies

344
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,680
Speaker 3: why we are actually doing these things. So how much

345
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,480
Speaker 3: will a binding financial agreement set us back.

346
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,680
Speaker 4: It is going to vary so much.

347
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,800
Speaker 5: And I will say that when I created that list

348
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,200
Speaker 5: of qualified lawyers saying they did do it, they all

349
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,800
Speaker 5: said it is an expensive area of law because it

350
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,800
Speaker 5: all depends on getting your actual facts, how you truly

351
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:37,280
Speaker 5: live values of things.

352
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:42,520
Speaker 4: So I would say between three thousand plus and.

353
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:46,879
Speaker 5: Different firms will vary in price enormously, and so you

354
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,640
Speaker 5: know it is worth taking that half a day off

355
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,240
Speaker 5: and to ring around maybe the whole dozen on the list,

356
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,679
Speaker 5: and you will find someone in your price range and

357
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:57,640
Speaker 5: it will be worth it.

358
00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,800
Speaker 3: And I don't know how you feel about this, Lucy,

359
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,640
Speaker 3: but I feel like when it comes to having a lawyer, yeah,

360
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,960
Speaker 3: you can absolutely do remotely, but it is actually quite

361
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,239
Speaker 3: important to have one in your state just because there

362
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,600
Speaker 3: are different rules and regulations.

363
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,520
Speaker 5: Well, with family law, I do not have any concerns

364
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,400
Speaker 5: referring people across the country.

365
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,720
Speaker 2: So a lot of them take that back to my friends.

366
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,480
Speaker 5: No, yeah, this area of Laura, I think has such

367
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:27,480
Speaker 5: a national focus. Wills it definitely state by state, but

368
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:32,360
Speaker 5: for finding financial agreements, the principles are national.

369
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,040
Speaker 3: Well, that is why you are here. And I'm not

370
00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,240
Speaker 3: directing this conversation this time.

371
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,680
Speaker 5: When a client comes to see me, I always say

372
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,680
Speaker 5: that ninety percent of the work has already been done.

373
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,080
Speaker 4: All we need you to do is do.

374
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,440
Speaker 5: You research, talk to a family lawyer, have that first consult,

375
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,880
Speaker 5: and they will coach you through how to introduce this

376
00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,399
Speaker 5: concept that you want a BFA to your partner. So

377
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,480
Speaker 5: literally they'll be able to say, in your exact circumstances,

378
00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,480
Speaker 5: these are the top three reasons why you're reallyship is

379
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,119
Speaker 5: going to benefit from it. And so let the lawyer

380
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,440
Speaker 5: coach you in what to say. I literally say to people,

381
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,520
Speaker 5: do you want to practice talking about it? When I'm

382
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,440
Speaker 5: trying to coach them through running a will or something

383
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,360
Speaker 5: like that, I say, let's have that practice conversation.

384
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,240
Speaker 3: And it really helps, It really really does. And I

385
00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,520
Speaker 3: think that helps in any circumstance when it comes to

386
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,440
Speaker 3: a sticky conversation or one that you're not super confident.

387
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 3: Having role playing with a friend or a family member

388
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,520
Speaker 3: or your lawyer can be really really effective. But talking

389
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,760
Speaker 3: about all of this stuff makes it seem so much

390
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,520
Speaker 3: more common than it actually is. And according to a

391
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,600
Speaker 3: little bit of research I did before the podcast in Australia,

392
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 3: Canstar says that only six percent of couples actually have

393
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,080
Speaker 3: bfas Lucy. Why is the percentage so low?

394
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,920
Speaker 5: I think that this speaks so beautifully to one of

395
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,399
Speaker 5: the things that I love about Australian culture so much,

396
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,679
Speaker 5: and that is that we are optimistic and we have

397
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:56,120
Speaker 5: a Shelby right attitude.

398
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,040
Speaker 3: So I love that in one I think so too

399
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 3: because I also try to do some research into how

400
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 3: many Americans have prenups, because this is similar in a

401
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:09,080
Speaker 3: way to a prenup, and the percentages did range too

402
00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 3: significantly for me to go, Okay, cool, this is what

403
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,320
Speaker 3: it was, but it was significantly more than six percent.

404
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:17,160
Speaker 4: I think that the.

405
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,160
Speaker 5: Second part would be that it is very true that

406
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,560
Speaker 5: binding financial agreements are commonly set.

407
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,600
Speaker 4: Aside by the courts, so they are not bulletproof.

408
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,840
Speaker 5: And again that goes back to they're only as good

409
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 5: as the input and the lawyer that you use, and

410
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,320
Speaker 5: they're not appropriate in every single circumstance. But your lawyer

411
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,680
Speaker 5: will tell you that, They'll say, don't spend your money,

412
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 5: it's not worth it. It's too late at this situation. The

413
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 5: earlier you go and get advice, and the earlier you

414
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:48,919
Speaker 5: put this in instead of waiting for the event that

415
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,640
Speaker 5: makes you go, wow, like the pennies dropped, I need it,

416
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,240
Speaker 5: And then it might be that it's really difficult for

417
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,160
Speaker 5: the courts to agree that it was made in good

418
00:20:58,200 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 5: faith and without a little bit of pressure.

419
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,440
Speaker 4: So a really great example would be your mum or

420
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 4: dad has passed away and we know that.

421
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 5: There's an inheritance coming of two million dollars, and you go,

422
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 5: right now is the time I need a BFA.

423
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 4: Of course your partner signed it.

424
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 5: They were under duress, Like, but you know, if you

425
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 5: go and do it at the start of the relationship,

426
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 5: when we're not contemplating an exact circumstance, it's just going

427
00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 5: to happen more weight if you both went into it

428
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:22,720
Speaker 5: without that pressure.

429
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 4: The very common one that just won't apply to.

430
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 5: Your audience is when they're signed within a week or

431
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 5: a couple of days before a marriage.

432
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, but I think that that's really applicable at

433
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 3: the end of the day because we might, you know,

434
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,120
Speaker 3: have a demographic of people who are going through that

435
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 3: situation that go, oh my gosh, that's so true, like

436
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 3: that's you know what I did, or that's something that

437
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 3: I was pressured to do, in which case might not

438
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,760
Speaker 3: stand up in the way that you think it's going to.

439
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's right, And I think then the next important

440
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 5: point is don't do them under pressure. You can do

441
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 5: them at any point in your relationships, so you know,

442
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 5: take your time, go and get the independent legal advice.

443
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 5: But I think that that statistic probably speaks to our nature,

444
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 5: the uncertainty that they might not hold up.

445
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 4: And also just that.

446
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 5: I feel like people need to shift their thinking about

447
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:16,400
Speaker 5: all of these investments.

448
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:17,679
Speaker 4: And Cheese on the money, does this.

449
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 5: So well, championship so kind no think championing in this advice.

450
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:23,880
Speaker 4: As an investment.

451
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,919
Speaker 5: And you know, we really need to start thinking about

452
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 5: all of these things as just part and parcel of

453
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,199
Speaker 5: being a homeowner or in a relationship, and they're just

454
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 5: the cost of doing modern day life.

455
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 3: I couldn't agree more. And Lucy, we're going to take

456
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 3: a really short break and then I'm going to ask

457
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 3: you some questions about when bfas don't work and ideas

458
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,680
Speaker 3: for you if you don't want one, don't go anywhere.

459
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 3: All right, Lucy, we are back. And before you mentioned

460
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 3: that you don't have to have any assets to have

461
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,679
Speaker 3: a BFA, but you might anticipate some things in the future,

462
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,959
Speaker 3: so it might be worth setting one up to make

463
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 3: sure that you're not doing it under due rest, which

464
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,880
Speaker 3: is very good advice. But if you don't have any

465
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 3: assets and you don't think that there's anything coming in

466
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 3: the future, does that mean that we probably don't need one.

467
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 5: Well, and starting point is let's look at the nature

468
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 5: of your relationship, and maybe you don't need one, but

469
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 5: you want some certainty about what you're contributing to your

470
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,439
Speaker 5: partners asset building or if you're paying some of their mortgage,

471
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 5: paying them rent.

472
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 4: That might be why you want something.

473
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 5: If you are not sure, if you're asking yourself this question,

474
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 5: it means that you probably should get advice because if

475
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 5: it's even a question in your mind, that to me

476
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 5: is the trigger that you should.

477
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 4: Talk to a lawyer. A lot of lawyers will give

478
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:44,959
Speaker 4: an initial consult.

479
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 5: For either free or very cheap, especially if you're not

480
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 5: asking them to draft information. And what I think is

481
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 5: invaluable that you're going to take out of that meeting

482
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 5: is understanding the trigger point when you will need one.

483
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 5: So all of those roomors out there that are like

484
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 5: don't leave a tooth at someone's house and then you're

485
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 5: not a de facto partner And.

486
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, is that true?

487
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 3: Is that how we get out of it? Lucy, No,

488
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 3: not at all. So you're saying I could have actively

489
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 3: left a toothbrush at Steve's house much earlier than I did.

490
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 4: You should have.

491
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, honestly, I should have made my mark earlier than

492
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 3: I did.

493
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're so little. Yeah, sayings like that, they're just myths.

494
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,719
Speaker 5: But what you will find out from your lawyer is

495
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 5: the parts of them that are true and what does

496
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 5: constitute a domestic relationship And it's going to apply.

497
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 4: To your assets in your BFA.

498
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 5: But it's also really handy to know for things like

499
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 5: you're super and although all these other areas of law,

500
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 5: but I just think if you went and spent four

501
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 5: hundred bucks on an hour with a lawyer if you're not.

502
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,679
Speaker 4: Sure if you need one, it's just going to be

503
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 4: the best investment.

504
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 3: I absolutely agree. And four hundred dollars can seem like

505
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,640
Speaker 3: a lot to swallow, but at the end of the day,

506
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 3: if you're at a point where you're like, I don't

507
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 3: know if I need a BFA and I'm moving in

508
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 3: with this person or starting a relationship or whatever your

509
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 3: situation might be you don't need to get one, but

510
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,719
Speaker 3: if you're really questioning it, four hundred dollars is a

511
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 3: very reasonable amount of money to spend. To be told,

512
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 3: don't worry about the three thousand dollar BFA. It's a

513
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 3: very good amount of money to you know, have a

514
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 3: bit of peace of mind and get some advice that

515
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 3: is going to be tailored to your personal situation, because

516
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 3: that lawyer is not just going to talk at you.

517
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 3: They're going to ask a few personal questions, Understand what

518
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 3: you do, your partner does, how it works, and they'll

519
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 3: give you advice that's specific to you because unfortunately, Lucy,

520
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 3: we can't do all that on a podcast.

521
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,439
Speaker 5: No, that's right, and it'll carry you through this relationship

522
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 5: and future ones. You'll know, okay, this is the timeline,

523
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 5: or this means are the circumstances about sharing a home?

524
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 5: You know it's there is actually an amazing resource on

525
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 5: a government website that I sent to my clients, and

526
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 5: it asks questions like, if you live together, if you

527
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,679
Speaker 5: have a cleaning roster, that probably means you're not in

528
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 5: a de facto relationship, but if you share cleaning, it

529
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,719
Speaker 5: means that you are in it. When you plan holidays,

530
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 5: you know, so there's I'll share it for the group

531
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 5: because I would get to put.

532
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 3: The link for that in the show notes so that

533
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 3: you guys can all access it. But I do feel

534
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 3: like that could be really helpful. I don't have a

535
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 3: cleaning roster. I have my cleaning schedule and that's just

536
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 3: for me. Does that mean I'm in a de facto

537
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 3: relationship Lucy, you're an independent woman? Independent woman? Or moving

538
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 3: on from that, We've talked about it on the show before,

539
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 3: and we've talked about it just before. You've said that

540
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 3: our lawyer might be able to equip us to have

541
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 3: these awkward conversations, and we said, blame it on Victoria

542
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 3: or Lucy if you want to bring it up, but

543
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 3: let's broach this. How do we broach having these kind

544
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 3: of conversations with our partners? It's so awkward sometimes. Do

545
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,880
Speaker 3: you have some hot tips if we don't want to

546
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 3: blame it on Lucy and Victoria or go directly to

547
00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 3: a lawyer.

548
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 5: I think, I mean for the people who are planning

549
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 5: to do this, I'm going to say that you are

550
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 5: by nature responsible your planners, and I just think that

551
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 5: if you broach it with your partner and they're surprised.

552
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 5: I'm going to be surprised because you know, your listeners

553
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 5: are educated and savvy, and I think that that should

554
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 5: surely be coming through in their relationships.

555
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 3: Too, So I would hope so.

556
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, So I think that Number one, don't assume

557
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 5: that your partner is going to think that this is coming.

558
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 4: From a bad place.

559
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 5: They will probably already know you as someone who is

560
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 5: a planner and responsible and they'll just be like, oh, yeah,

561
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 5: that's just true to Victoria's style.

562
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 3: It's going to stereotype you straight to type a my friend.

563
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 3: They're going to see it a mile off.

564
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 4: So don't worry about it.

565
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 5: They already know that about you, and it's probably one

566
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 5: of the things that they love about you.

567
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 3: It's cute that you thought that they wouldn't see this

568
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 3: coming though, Hey, yeah, exactly.

569
00:27:58,160 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 4: They know you better than you think.

570
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 5: And number two, I think when people want to have

571
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 5: a conversation or and the other is avoiding it, I

572
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 5: say to them.

573
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 4: Just ask them what's the harm, Like, what's the harm

574
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 4: in giving me half an hour and you know, or

575
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 4: what's the harm in listening to this podcast together?

576
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 5: What's the harm in us both having that free chat

577
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 5: with a lawyer, that three fifteen or whatever they all do.

578
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 5: I think if you can hold their hand and get

579
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 5: them from step A to step B and then step

580
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 5: B to step SEA, and if it applies, the lawyer

581
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 5: will do the rest of the work. You've just got

582
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 5: to introduce the topic and just don't be afraid. It's

583
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 5: your future that's at stake.

584
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 3: I agree, And I think that the other thing. I've

585
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 3: said this on the podcast before, but it's something that's

586
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 3: seen me really well through all good conversations, whether it

587
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 3: is with my friends, my family, my partner, you know,

588
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 3: people that I work with. I've always found that approaching

589
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 3: things from an emotional perspective, not crazy emotional, but an

590
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 3: emotional perspective instead of a accusatory perspective has really helped.

591
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 3: So saying hey, Lucy, you make me feel like XYZ

592
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 3: is much better than saying Lucy you always because it

593
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 3: changes the tone of the conversation to hey, this might

594
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 3: not actually be reality. This is just my experience, as

595
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 3: opposed to just being straight accusatory of it. So maybe

596
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 3: saying things like hey, I feel like this is something

597
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 3: we should consider, not we need to consider this can

598
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 3: be a really soft way of starting a conversation like that.

599
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 3: That kind of promotes kindness and promotes a really soft

600
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 3: and easy conversation, because I think that one thing that

601
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 3: we easily forget in conversations like this is you've been

602
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 3: ruminating about it, You've been thinking about it. Maybe you've

603
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 3: already spoken to a lawyer, so you're ready for this conversation.

604
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,959
Speaker 3: Your partner might not be privy to all of that,

605
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 3: so this might be the very first time they're hearing

606
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 3: about it, So you kind of need to tread gently

607
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 3: and kindly because they might not be in the right

608
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 3: mind space. It might not necessarily mean oh my gosh,

609
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 3: they weren't receptive to it. It might just mean they

610
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 3: need an hour or two to go, oh, okay, that's

611
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 3: the conversation we're having today. I thought we were just

612
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 3: going to talk about our grocery list, or oh, I

613
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 3: thought we're going to talk about going to your mum's

614
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 3: on Saturday. So I think it's really important to approach

615
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 3: the conversation really kindly and softly, remembering that you're obviously

616
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 3: more educated and more equipped to have that conversation in

617
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 3: the moment, and it's actually okay if they're not ready.

618
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 3: It doesn't necessarily mean they don't want to have it.

619
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 3: They might not be surprised, but don't be offended if

620
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 3: they're like, oh what, I don't want to have this

621
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 3: conversation right now because they just might not have the

622
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 3: mental capacity, which I think is very fair as well.

623
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I see it all the time in my estate

624
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 5: planning practice.

625
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 4: Nobody wants to.

626
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 5: Do their will and no, thank you, And I say

627
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 5: that my clients have a six month consideration phase. First

628
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 5: of all, they identify that they have an issue, and

629
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 5: then they think about it, and then they filter through

630
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 5: all the different solutions they could have, and then they

631
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 5: arrive at the time where they're ready to do something

632
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 5: about it. Partner, the respect of having their own consideration

633
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 5: phase and the strength of the document hinges on everybody

634
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 5: doing it voluntarily.

635
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 3: So yeah, I wouldn't agree more liter you. And I

636
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 3: know deeply that it's always an event that promotes people

637
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 3: to do these things, and that's not necessarily the best

638
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 3: time to do them either, So speaking about making sure

639
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 3: we're doing them voluntarily, and you said before that obviously

640
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 3: if a BFA is done under fraud or dures, it's

641
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 3: not actually going to stand to the test of time

642
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 3: and the courts are maybe going to throw it out.

643
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 3: Are there any other occasions where bfas could be completely

644
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 3: null and void?

645
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 4: Absolutely?

646
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 5: If you are not truthful with the assets, that you

647
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 5: won't when you go into the BFA. So if you're

648
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 5: hiding part of the picture, then the BFA the context

649
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 5: that was made in is just going to be irrelevant.

650
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 5: So full and frank disclosure. It's also the best way

651
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 5: to keep your lawyer's fees down, just you know, be.

652
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, it make seems less complicated, correct, Yeah, we can

653
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 3: get it right from the start, as opposed to you know,

654
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 3: pushing out and reiterating and changing and going Actually we

655
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 3: need an entirely new agreement. And I mean, I'd like

656
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 3: to think that everybody has just little hidden emergency funds

657
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 3: and apartments off to the side that they haven't told

658
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 3: their partner about. But the reality of this is usually

659
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 3: it's hidden debts, isn't it, Lucy.

660
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 4: Correct, Yeah, that's right.

661
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 5: So yeah, if the information wasn't full and frank, if

662
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 5: there was any pressure to enter into it, if you

663
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 5: didn't get independent league advice, So if maybe your lawyer

664
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 5: drafted it and they signed it without a lawyer explaining

665
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 5: it to them, that's going to.

666
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 4: Be an issue.

667
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 5: There are a lot of circumstances where it can be

668
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 5: set aside, if your lawyer hasn't drafted it to comply

669
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 5: with the legislation, or if you've used a botch that

670
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 5: you know, miss some bits. But the point that I

671
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 5: want to make is that you are no worse off

672
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 5: for trying. And if it is thrown out, what will happen.

673
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 4: Is that you'll be in the family court and you'll

674
00:32:58,480 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 4: be seeking a settlement that.

675
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 5: The court will approve, and you're no worse off for

676
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 5: having tried with a BFA first. Or maybe a part

677
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 5: of it will be upheld, you know, maybe it will

678
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 5: uphold it in terms of your parents' inheritance, but it

679
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 5: won't stand up for the property that you built together.

680
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 5: So yeah, that would be the key takeaway that with

681
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 5: the law, unfortunately, nothing is watertight.

682
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 4: But we still think that you're better off for giving

683
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 4: it a go than not.

684
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 5: Ah.

685
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 3: I feel like that's super interesting and actually really positive

686
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 3: because you're right, it's better to just have tried than

687
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 3: to have not tried at all. So keeping all of

688
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 3: this in mind, if someone listening just is not convinced

689
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 3: that a BFA is the way to go. What advice

690
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 3: would you give them, Lucy, talk.

691
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 5: To your friends who have ended relationships about the reality

692
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 5: of how simple that was or how difficult that was.

693
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 5: Do they wish they had work?

694
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, Lucy, I think you know, you can listen to us.

695
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 5: But it is those personal stories that I know move

696
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 5: people from into decision or a fixed note.

697
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 4: So yes, and I say, go and talk to so

698
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 4: and so.

699
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 5: Have you ever known anyone who has been divorced, Maybe

700
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 5: it's an art maybe it's an older family friend, and.

701
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 4: Just say what was it like? And you know, they

702
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 4: put separation and divorce up there with the four worst

703
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 4: life events, don't they up there?

704
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 3: They do. They say it's one of the most traumatic

705
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 3: events you can go through, which I'm not. I mean,

706
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 3: I'm trying not to be dramatic on this podcast, but Lucy,

707
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,720
Speaker 3: I am always dramatic on this podcast. And I mentioned

708
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 3: this statistic before that fifty percent of marriages and in divorce.

709
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 3: You're saying that fifty percent of people who I am

710
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 3: married are going to experience one of life's most significant

711
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 3: traumatic events. Like that justus really not good?

712
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 4: Yeah? Absolutely, I think that human need for certainty. We

713
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 4: just can't get it when we're going through a separation.

714
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 5: But if you have this element of your relationship taken

715
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 5: care of, what happens to this debt, what happens to

716
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 5: this asset, that certainty will just you know, carry you

717
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 5: through so much through a really difficult time.

718
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I've said this before again on the podcast

719
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 3: because I'm just getting to a point where I'm a

720
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 3: bit of a broken record my friends. But one of

721
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 3: the things that I really like about bfas or you know,

722
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 3: setting yourself up from the very beginning, or you know,

723
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 3: working out what would happen to your assets if you

724
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 3: did divorce, is that you're actually in a really special

725
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 3: position at the beginning of your relationship. Like everybody is

726
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 3: really excited about moving in together or maybe getting married,

727
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 3: or you're maybe really excited about the new relationship, and

728
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 3: at that point in time, you actually want the best

729
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,320
Speaker 3: for each other. Like I want the best for you, Lucy,

730
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 3: and hopefully you want the best for me, and you

731
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 3: do respect that. Maybe I do want an inheritance protected,

732
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 3: or that house that I worked my entire life for

733
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 3: before I met you, I want to protect that, and

734
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 3: you're very likely to respect that in the moment because

735
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 3: we're so in love and we want the best for

736
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 3: each other. But if we were having that conversation when

737
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 3: we're in the middle of a divorce and Lucy are

738
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 3: cheated on you, so you're bitter at me, you don't

739
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 3: want the best for me at that point in time,

740
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 3: and we're having a conversation where you don't like the

741
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 3: other person and therefore feel like maybe you're owed something

742
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 3: or maybe you don't actually want them to have a

743
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 3: better outcome. So I really like the idea that we

744
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 3: get to have this conversation about a binding financial agreement

745
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 3: at the start of a relationship, if possible, or at

746
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 3: any point that you're actually in a really good mind space,

747
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 3: because it means that at the end of the day,

748
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 3: you can go, you know what, whatever happens happens. We

749
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 3: might not love each other anymore, we might not want

750
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 3: anything to do with each other, but this agreement, like,

751
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 3: I'm pretty happy with it because I wanted the best

752
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 3: for you and you wanted the best for me, and

753
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:45,919
Speaker 3: we were both really comfortable with it at the time.

754
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 3: And I think that for me, that's a really nice

755
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 3: part of the process where it's not actually like, Lucy,

756
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 3: I want half of your stuff. It's like, hey, we

757
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 3: agreed to this, like when we just wanted the best.

758
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 5: Say that all the time with a state planning as well,

759
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 5: I'm not asking you to do anything that I'm not

760
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 5: also signing up to. Yeah, exactly, I can't control what

761
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 5: your lawyer says to you on the other half of

762
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 5: a BFA matter. And you know, they might give you

763
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 5: advice that says that you deserve more or that you.

764
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 4: Know, paying rent is actually contributing to the equity. And

765
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 4: I'm happy to roll that dice.

766
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 5: Because we're just going to listen to the advice and

767
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 5: take it as it comes. And yeah, I'm not asking

768
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 5: you to do anything that I'm not doing too.

769
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that that's, you know, a really

770
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 3: important point, because we're not recommending considering a BFA to

771
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 3: put you in the best possible position. It's actually to

772
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 3: put your relationship in the best possible position, which unfortunately

773
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 3: some people just don't see it that way.

774
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, that is so interesting. I honestly had

775
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 2: no idea how many little bits and pieces there were

776
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 2: to think about. I guess finding financial agreements are something

777
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,479
Speaker 2: that aren't that commonly talked about. I want to say,

778
00:37:58,560 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 2: and they aren't.

779
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 3: I mean they are if you're in the She's on

780
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 3: the money community. We're all financially savvy people, but it's

781
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 3: one of those things that we need to get nitty

782
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 3: gritty on these topics. And Jess, I think my favorite

783
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 3: learning from this was when Lucy said that, actually, if

784
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 3: you don't have a toothbrush at your partner's house, it

785
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 3: doesn't mean you're not in a relationship with them, which

786
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 3: is a very common myth that people say, Oh, if

787
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 3: you don't put a toothbrush at their house, you don't

788
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 3: actually have a de facto relationship. Lucy busted that one.

789
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 3: It is a myth, which is kind of sad for

790
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 3: all of you who maybe have been doing that. But Jess,

791
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 3: did you put a toothbrush at James's house early on

792
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 3: or were you one of those people that just waited

793
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 3: till you moved in together.

794
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 2: No, I'm pretty sure I set up shop in yeah,

795
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 2: please very quickly. I like my luxuries. The three in

796
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 2: one shampoo, conditioner and body wash was really not going

797
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 2: to cut it for me, so I made sure I

798
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 2: came prepared.

799
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, did you just take it to his

800
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 3: house every time or did you literally just like all right,

801
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 3: cool popping this one in your shower. Also, I have

802
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 3: a toothbrush here. I've actually just cleared out one of

803
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 3: your drawers. It's mine now, Is that what I happened?

804
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 2: Definitely the latter one. I just moved in and set

805
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,959
Speaker 2: up camp pretty much. But enough about that. I will

806
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 2: definitely make sure that we link that website in the

807
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 2: show notes. That sounds like it's going to be really

808
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 2: handy and worth checking out if you're interested in learning

809
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 2: a little bit more, because you know, as we covered,

810
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 2: there's a lot to take into consideration when you're thinking

811
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 2: about BFAS And a huge thank you of course to

812
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 2: Lucy for sharing her expertise and her knowledge. Will also

813
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 2: have her linked in a show notes as well.

814
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 3: Of course, and hopefully jess we can convince her to

815
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 3: chime in more often on the podcast when we need

816
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 3: a legal representative, which I think would be really helpful.

817
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 3: So if you have any other suggestions or questions for Lucy,

818
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 3: please shoot them through to our DMS or comment on

819
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 3: our Instagram. We are always watching and always open to

820
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 3: questions that you guys might have. But Jess as always.

821
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 3: Albeit you haven't featured a lot on this podcast, I

822
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 3: do have to wrap it up here, so as always,

823
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 3: just before we head off, with like to acknowledge and

824
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 3: pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and tourist Raight Islander people's

825
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 3: they're the traditional custodians of the lands, the waterways and

826
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,720
Speaker 3: the skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing

827
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 3: and for caring for the land on which we are

828
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 3: able to learn. We pay our respects to elders past

829
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,439
Speaker 3: and present, and we share our friendship and our kindness.

830
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 4: The advice shared.

831
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 2: On She's on the Money is generally nature and does

832
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 2: not consider your individual circumstances. Shees on the Money exists

833
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 2: purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon

834
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 2: to make an investment or a financial decision. And we

835
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,720
Speaker 2: promise Victoria Divine is an authorized representative of Australia Pacific

836
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 2: Funds Management Proprietary Limited ABAN three four one three two

837
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 2: four six three two five seven AFSL three three nine

838
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 2: one five one.

839
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,720
Speaker 3: And Lucy's a legit lawyer. Guys like that wasn't fake news,

840
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 3: Like saying Jess is a lawyer for example, see you

841
00:40:54,920 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 3: next week. Guys, Bye the