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Speaker 1: This is a journey into sound pop up, the value

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Speaker 1: of crazy releases, the history of sound. Yeah, well we

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Speaker 1: we are looking at the history of sound and the

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Speaker 1: National Film and Sound Archive of Australia have very kindly

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Speaker 1: teamed up with.

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Speaker 2: Us to talk about the history of sound. Today we're

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Speaker 2: all about the cassette tape.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Neil Hands from the National Film and Sound

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Speaker 1: Archive of Australia.

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Speaker 3: Lo Toanil Heydanil, welcome, Hi.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for having it. Thank you any opportunity to talk

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Speaker 4: about you sound same.

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Speaker 1: So take us back to Neil who invented the cassette tape.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, the compact cassette or cassette tape, yes, was

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Speaker 4: invented by the Dutch Lou Ottens in nineteen sixty three

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Speaker 4: for Phillips nineteen sixty three.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, but I mean at the time I probably

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Speaker 1: would have thought it was even longer ago than that.

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Speaker 2: So the Dutch gave us the compact cassette as it used.

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Speaker 5: To BET cassette and we ended up with a compact

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Speaker 5: disc later. But it was you know, the technology at

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Speaker 5: the time was probably pretty cool. Well I had its limitations.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, So you know, the tape, as we know, it

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Speaker 4: consists of two small spools of one in one magnetic

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Speaker 4: tape which is enclosed in a plastic case and it

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Speaker 4: fits in the palm of your hand, and so the

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Speaker 4: tape has two sides. You have to take it out

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Speaker 4: and flip it to play it. And there's roughly only

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Speaker 4: about sixty to one hundred and twenty minutes of recording.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and of course you had to fast forward now

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Speaker 1: do the song you didn't lie, I'm I'm tumbling.

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Speaker 3: Around with it right now trying to get a song on.

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Speaker 1: So was it designed for anything, for something specific other

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Speaker 1: than you know what we used it for.

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Speaker 4: Mostly absolutely, So, you know, the origins of magnetic tape

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Speaker 4: are actually much earlier than the nineteen sixties. We've got

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Speaker 4: recordings on reels of wire in our collection that start

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Speaker 4: in the early nineteen hundred and they were really intended

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Speaker 4: for field recordings or mostly on the domestic market for dictation, right.

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Speaker 4: But it was really, you know, only as a lot

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Speaker 4: of companies began experimenting with tapes and with cartridges that

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Speaker 4: we got into a much cheaper, much smaller system that

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Speaker 4: playing and recording became so much more accessible. And so,

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Speaker 4: you know, the first portable recorder available in Australia was

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Speaker 4: about eleven hundred dollars, which sounds like a lot. Yeah

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Speaker 4: it was, but all of a sudden, sound recording was

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Speaker 4: being democratized. I mean compared to a big studio system,

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Speaker 4: having a system in your house.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the early computer's very expensive.

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Speaker 1: We were certainly keen to lip that dictation in the bud.

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Speaker 1: Austin said when we spoke to him on Monday, to

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Speaker 1: Neil that that's what the phonograph cylinder was first, you know, four.

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Speaker 4: Absolute dictation.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 4: I mean why it changed for us is that the

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Speaker 4: biggest innovation with tape as opposed to disc recording is

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Speaker 4: that with tape you can cut out section and you

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Speaker 4: can fly sections together. So what we did was we

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Speaker 4: moved away from that dictation and the recording actuality and

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Speaker 4: you're able to construct a creative work.

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Speaker 3: Yeah enough.

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Speaker 4: What that meant is eventually we developed multi track and

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Speaker 4: stereo and lower distortion and it became a really cheap,

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Speaker 4: easy format for say, small underground acts in Australia. You've

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Speaker 4: got Perths the Triffids in the late seventies. Yes, they

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Speaker 4: had one hundred songs over their first two years and

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Speaker 4: they released six independent cassette tapes within two years, and

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Speaker 4: they would sell them at gigs and that's how they

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Speaker 4: quickly distributed and became one of the most popular bands.

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Speaker 2: And we still talk about them.

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Speaker 5: It became It made the music more mobile as well,

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Speaker 5: didn't it. You could get out Like my dad one

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Speaker 5: night went and saw Neil Diamond I can't remember. It

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Speaker 5: was subi Ovall or the Whack and he recorded the

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Speaker 5: whole concert and the recording was awful because it bactually

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Speaker 5: started wearing out. So the end of the game like

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Speaker 5: crunching out olask Us around eighty seven. Yeah, you could, yeah,

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Speaker 5: but at least he got a couple of because you've

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Speaker 5: got a couple at the start of the gig. That

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Speaker 5: sounded a right. I don't know if he ever played again,

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Speaker 5: but we became more mobile. MoMA was the music ind.

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Speaker 4: We definitely, I mean, and especially when the Walkman came

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Speaker 4: around in nineteen seventy nine, all of a sudden, you

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Speaker 4: had a player you could take anywhere, you can listen

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Speaker 4: to it by yourself, and you can custom make a

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Speaker 4: soundtrack for your own life.

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Speaker 1: Well this is I mean, The Walkman changed my life

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Speaker 1: because I was able to sit in the backseat of

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Speaker 1: the car on a road trip. This is on the

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Speaker 1: days where Mum and Dad chose the music and if

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Speaker 1: you didn't like the two mad I could sit in

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Speaker 1: the back and I could listen to David Bowie or

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Speaker 1: whatever while they've got Max Bargraves playing on their you know,

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Speaker 1: cassette tape in the car.

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Speaker 2: And it was it was freedom.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, that pratical destiny, pretty of choice.

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Speaker 2: That's why it.

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Speaker 4: Became the leading format from nineteen eighty four to nineteen

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Speaker 4: eighty two. I mean the Walkman changed everyone's lives. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: but we still had you know, there was so much

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Speaker 4: development and a real boot room in cassette players. We

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Speaker 4: had them in cars from the nineteen sixty eight. It

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Speaker 4: really made it portable and enjoyable and it was really

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Speaker 4: picked up by surfers, you know, bringing them out and

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Speaker 4: playing them out the back of the vans and blasting

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Speaker 4: skyhooks and it really did amazing things for the Australian industry.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, they replaced the smaller cassettes, replacing the old eye

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Speaker 5: track because a lot of people are the eye tracks

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Speaker 5: in the curve something else.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, that was you know, probably it wasn't the right thing,

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Speaker 1: but it was life changing. The cassettes was coming back

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Speaker 1: from Bali with a suitcase full of.

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Speaker 2: The dam flings.

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Speaker 1: I mean, was this the very first example of pirating music?

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Speaker 4: I don't know if it's the first example because we're

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Speaker 4: kind of wily, but I would say it definitely was

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Speaker 4: a big concern for the Australian industry. They estimated that

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Speaker 4: it was costing them about four hundred and forty point

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Speaker 4: eight million, and that's not including just how easy tapes

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Speaker 4: were a shop lift compared to an LP.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I never gave that a pretty small slippy. I did

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Speaker 2: pick them a few pate copy Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you makes make them a mixtape so you don't

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Speaker 5: have to buy the album?

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Speaker 3: You know you the c album? No, I don't have to.

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Speaker 1: Mixtapes were the first dating apps, in my opinion, because

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Speaker 1: we didn't know, we didn't have social media to flirt.

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Speaker 2: I found that the best.

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Speaker 1: I think if there was someone you liked, you made

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Speaker 1: them a mixtape.

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Speaker 2: Oh really, and that was the key to their heart?

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Speaker 3: Did you do that?

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Speaker 2: Yes? Many.

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Speaker 4: If you didn't make a mixtape for someone you cared

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Speaker 4: about it, I don't want to know you.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, what about the revival I mean, it hasn't been

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Speaker 5: as huge as as people going and buying vinyl, But

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Speaker 5: there have been some releases on cassettes in recent times,

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Speaker 5: haven't they.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely?

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Speaker 4: I think it has a large part to do with

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Speaker 4: the nostalgia. I think it's cheaper with an LP and labels.

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Speaker 4: While they're producing these digital releases, they'll often come with

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Speaker 4: a limited edition collectibook cassette and that comes with a

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Speaker 4: digital download with it. You know, the recent Barbie movie

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Speaker 4: released its soundtrack on a hot pink transparent cassette.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, I loved that one first. No style too,

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Speaker 2: isn't it.

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Speaker 1: I do think they were sometimes the least loved of

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Speaker 1: all the forms, and yet they were the one probably

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Speaker 1: that did for me change so many things. Okay, the

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Speaker 1: quality might not have been as good as putting on

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Speaker 1: an album at home, but as I said, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was on the move with it.

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Speaker 5: But when it got caught in the heads to take

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Speaker 5: the corner heads and your tape was rubbish?

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Speaker 1: How many you try to save your favorite You've got

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Speaker 1: the pencil, you're trying to wind it back on, and

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Speaker 1: the moment you get that when you reach that moment

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Speaker 1: where you think, no, it's gone.

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Speaker 3: What do you reckon to now? It's frustrating. I can

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Speaker 3: hear it in your voice.

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Speaker 4: Oh absolutely, I mean I've done it myself, getting the

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Speaker 4: tape and getting it out and winding it back with

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Speaker 4: the pencil and getting your own sticky tape and trying

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Speaker 4: to get it back together.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: But do you know what, I don't think CDs fixed

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Speaker 4: anything like that. They were just I think they were

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Speaker 4: more easily scratched and less durable, and.

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Speaker 3: More when listening to them, the skating kind of thing

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Speaker 3: on them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I think cassettes are hard done by.

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Speaker 2: They were sturdier.

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Speaker 1: Well to Neil, thank you for taking us through the

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Speaker 1: history of the cassette today.

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Speaker 2: It's lovely to talk to you. Thank you by bye

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Speaker 2: so much.

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Speaker 4: Take care,