1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: Will Anderson is one of Australia's most experienced comedians, and 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: his wisdom and understanding of his craft reflects that he's 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: become so accustomed to the stage that he now writes 4 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: his shows not on paper, but live in front of 5 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: an audience. After more than twenty five years in the business, 6 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: Will has trained his mind to filter pretty much everything, 7 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: his thoughts, his feelings, and his day to day experiences 8 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: through the lens of comedy. In fact, he can't even 9 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: look at the bookshelf in my recording studio without turning 10 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: it into a bit. Will shares how his process has 11 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 1: developed over more than two decades of practice and explains 12 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: why the nights when he's not in the mood to 13 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: perform are the most important ones. My name is doctor 14 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: amanthe Immer. I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder of 15 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: behavioral science consultancy Inventium, and this is how I work 16 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: a show about how to help you do your best work. 17 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: In Will's new book, he talks about two distinct states 18 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:20,919 Speaker 1: of stand up comedy, creation and recreation. So I asked 19 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: Will to define both of those states and how he 20 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: approaches them. 21 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 2: Thank you for asking that. By the way, I appreciate 22 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: that because to me, that's the most interesting bit of 23 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 2: the book, and I don't think it's something that anybody 24 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 2: else is going to ask me about it really is. 25 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: I may have come to the right place just for 26 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 2: this question alone, because to me it is the most 27 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 2: compelling idea in my life, which is I constantly wrestle 28 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 2: with this, which is I So I'm not sure that 29 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 2: I have a strict definition. The way that I describe 30 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 2: it in the book is I talk about, you know, 31 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 2: stand up comedy is the example that I use. I 32 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 2: think it has broader ramifications, and I think you know 33 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: what we'll do is we'll explore that a little bit more. 34 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 2: But for me, just do your stand up comedy as 35 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 2: the starting point our way into it. I talk about 36 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 2: the idea of creating stand up comedy. When you're first 37 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 2: working an idea, presenting it to an audience, getting the 38 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 2: feedback of it. That's a state of creation. You are 39 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 2: coming up with the idea, you're exploring the idea, you're 40 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: seeing where the idea might go, and then eventually stand 41 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 2: up comedy a lot of the time becomes a process 42 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 2: of recreation, which is essentially it's the equivalent of focus 43 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 2: grouping your material being a stand up comedian, because the 44 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 2: more you do it, instead of being in the moment 45 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 2: that night and trying to make the joke work there 46 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 2: for that audience, what you tend to do is start 47 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 2: a process of going, well, this is the wording or 48 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 2: the way that I've said this joke the most times 49 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 2: where it's worked the most time. So therefore, coming into tonight, 50 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 2: if I word it that way and I present it 51 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 2: in that way, it is most likely to work tonight 52 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 2: based on the previous information that I have. So for me, 53 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 2: the process of creation has always been so much more 54 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 2: interesting than the process of recreation. And as I have 55 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 2: developed as a performer, developed as a stand up comedian, 56 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 2: what I've really tried to do is how can I 57 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 2: keep that process of creation alive when you are by 58 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 2: the very nature of having done the thing a lot 59 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 2: of times, Because it's not like you can constantly be 60 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 2: if you are doing the same show, if you're trying 61 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 2: to present this story, this routine, this emotion, this journey 62 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 2: for the audience, it's not like you can do it 63 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 2: completely differently every night. That would make no sense at all. 64 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: There is some process of recreation that is entirely necessary 65 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 2: to that process. But how do I engage with the 66 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 2: creative process, the process of being in the moment and 67 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 2: creating on the spot and having that one on one 68 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 2: conversation with that audience from the night. How can I 69 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 2: infuse that into the necessary process of recreation. 70 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: You describe yourself as an observational comedian, and I would 71 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: imagine that your powers of observation and listening in terms 72 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: of what is going on in your world has changed 73 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: over around twenty five years of doing stand up comedy. 74 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 1: What does that look like for you now when you 75 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: are creating new material. 76 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 2: I think that probably early on it is something that 77 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 2: you are consciously doing, and then there is a time 78 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 2: when it becomes unconscious or subconscious, like you know that 79 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 2: you're not really thinking about the process of creation. Twenty 80 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 2: five years ago, that creative process might have been I'll 81 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 2: get a whole bunch of newspapers, I'll sit it down 82 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 2: at my desk, I'll read the newspapers, I'll write jokes. 83 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 2: My creative process doesn't look like that anymore. How do 84 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 2: you write your book? How do you put together you show? 85 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 2: How do you write a show? There is no answer 86 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 2: to that, however, it needs to be done. That's how 87 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 2: I do it. 88 00:04:58,080 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: Like. 89 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 2: Some of it happens in my head, some of it 90 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 2: happens in stage on stage. Some of it happens in 91 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 2: a process of writing in the first place and then editing. 92 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 2: Some of it happens in coming up with an idea 93 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 2: and then going and researching and finding information. Some of 94 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 2: it comes up with writing a routine on stage and 95 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,359 Speaker 2: then realizing that it's not working, so then taking it 96 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 2: off stage where it's never been written down, writing it down, 97 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 2: and then rearranging it. There is no consistent creative process. 98 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 2: How does it get done. It gets done, and then 99 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 2: at the end I can tell you how it got done, 100 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 2: But there is I don't have a process to get 101 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 2: it done. And in fact, what I've learned over the 102 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 2: years is the closest I would get to having a 103 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 2: process is they used to say about michelangel I think 104 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 2: it was who said that the sculptures already inside the 105 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 2: piece of stone, you just need to know which bits 106 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 2: to get rid of, right, And that certainly probably is 107 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 2: as close to a process that I have, which is 108 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:05,359 Speaker 2: that everything is examined through that critical eye. You know, 109 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 2: my brain is constantly looking at every single thing that 110 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 2: I do and picking it apart. But it's not all 111 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: necessary for what I'm making. I have to work out 112 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 2: which bits to get rid of to, you know, so 113 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 2: the show will emerge, or the book will emerge, or 114 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 2: the idea will emerge from you know, the clutter that 115 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 2: is there. So constantly examining things is the process, but 116 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 2: it is not a formal process anymore. It is a 117 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 2: process that is just intrinsic to my being. 118 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, I was struck by something you wrote 119 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: in your book I'm Not Fine, Thanks, where you talk 120 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: about you've essentially trained your brain to process your thoughts 121 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: on life and the world through the lens of creating 122 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: a show or creating comedy and I and it sounds 123 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: like a lot of that process is now unconscious. But 124 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: if you were to unpack it, like what does that 125 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: look like day to day? I mean, does it look 126 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: like being in a cafe in mull and Bimbi and 127 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: just making notes on conversations that you've had with these 128 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: eccentric people that you write about in the book, for example, 129 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: or do they just come back into memory at the 130 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: right moment, Like, what does that look like day to day? 131 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 2: Most of it comes back into memory at the right moment. 132 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 2: Occasionally I'll make a note, and I tend to write 133 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 2: every day, but like sometimes that writing isn't I most 134 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 2: of the time I write without intention. It's observation without intention, 135 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 2: and then it's choosing what parts of that that you 136 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 2: need for particular projects. So I often have a whole 137 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 2: bunch of writing, like I mean every like so like 138 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 2: an average stand up show. And this is something I 139 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 2: wrestle with in the book, which is the idea that 140 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,679 Speaker 2: I have trained my brain for, Like April twenty twenty 141 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 2: was going to be twenty five years in a row 142 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 2: of me doing new show, which means that every year 143 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 2: my brain would have to process the year. And as 144 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 2: I say in the book, you know, what does the 145 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 2: world look like and what does my place in that 146 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 2: world look like? That is essentially what my process is. 147 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 2: That's what my shows are about. Every year. It is 148 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 2: some variation of that. And certainly when that went away, 149 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 2: my brain did not stop doing that. You know, my 150 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 2: brain has been trained for a quarter of a century 151 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 2: to work like that. It's your average show. If you 152 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 2: want to do the math on it, you know, to 153 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 2: kind of make it a little bit less airy fairy 154 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 2: and a little under easier for people to understand. The 155 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 2: average stand up show for sixty to seventy minutes, I 156 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 2: am on stage written down on a piece of paper. 157 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 2: If you wrote down every word would be somewhere between 158 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 2: seven and eight thousand words. And I mean I could 159 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 2: write seven or eight thousand words in a week really, 160 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 2: Like it's not not a lot of words for me 161 00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 2: to be able to create. But generally when I go 162 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 2: into like writing what I think the show will be, 163 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 2: I will have a document that probably has more like 164 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 2: seventy or eighty thousand words on it, and that will 165 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 2: be where I start, and that will be the most 166 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 2: interesting ideas that I've had in the last year, or 167 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 2: the most interesting themes that I've explored in the last year, 168 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 2: or a lot of the time it is just what, 169 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 2: you know, what what is top of my mind? What 170 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 2: am my most interested in? Like when I look at 171 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 2: back at the things that I've made notes about or 172 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 2: thought about during that year, what are the things that 173 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:38,199 Speaker 2: I find most compelling to talk about to share? And 174 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 2: then so you start with a document that's that size, 175 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 2: and then I start chipping away those bits of stone 176 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 2: that don't need to be there, and then the show 177 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 2: starts to reveal itself. You often find that you might 178 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 2: think that you have seventy thousand words of completely, you know, 179 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 2: non connected ideas, but once you get rid of the 180 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 2: stuff that's not meant to be there, you realize that 181 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 2: what you're left with is often incredibly thematic, you know. 182 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 2: I mean, it's interesting with the book, you know. To 183 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 2: use an example, I did not name the book. It's 184 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 2: called I Am not Fine, Thanks, but I did not 185 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 2: name the book. I handed it to the publishers and 186 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 2: I said, I am happy for you to call it. 187 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 2: You're the people who are experts in selling books. You 188 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 2: tell me what you think it should be called. And 189 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:23,839 Speaker 2: they came back very quickly and they said, we want 190 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 2: to call it I Am not fine, thanks. The truth 191 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 2: is that it's a good name for the book because 192 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 2: it is infused in every part of that story. Is 193 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 2: this idea of that on a personal level, I explore 194 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 2: being not fine, thanks, But when I talk about the world, 195 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 2: it is very much through the perspective of I don't 196 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 2: think that things are fine, thanks, And here is why 197 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 2: I don't think these things are fine. So I did 198 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 2: not sit down with that theme. I didn't have a 199 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 2: piece of paper that said I am not fine, thanks, 200 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 2: and then wrote a book that was thematic to it. 201 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 2: I wrote a book, and this theme revealed itself from 202 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 2: the book, and that is That is a very good 203 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 2: example of mostly how my work tends to create itself. 204 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 2: I write what I'm interested in and that I look 205 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:09,959 Speaker 2: at it, and it tends to have it often tends 206 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 2: to have a cohesive theme that emerges from it. But 207 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 2: I let the show tell me what it is rather 208 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 2: than me try to impose on the show what I 209 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 2: think it should be. 210 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: I got to say, I love the title. I remember 211 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: I read that in your book, that it was the 212 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: publishers that named it, and it's such a it's a 213 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: perfect title, Like having read it, I can't imagine a 214 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: better title for it. So I think that that is great. 215 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: And gosh, I know how much obsessing goes into the 216 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: naming of a book. I think it's one of the 217 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: hardest parts of the project. I want to delve a 218 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: bit deeper into the editing. So you're essentially cutting ninety 219 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: percent of the material to get to your show. How 220 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: do you know what is what is worthy and what 221 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 1: is going to elicit the best real action from your audience, 222 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: because I imagine largely you're creating this first draft of a 223 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: show in a bubble instead of, you know, regularly doing 224 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: test shows throughout that process. Like, is that a fair assumption? 225 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 2: So the real answer is I don't know. That's the 226 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 2: real answer. I don't know. I'm guessing. I absolutely am guessing. 227 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 2: I'm constantly guessing, And anybody tells you that they're not 228 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 2: guessing is lying to you, because everybody is guessing in 229 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 2: the world. Now. Sometimes you have been guessing enough in 230 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,959 Speaker 2: your particular industry that you get better at guessing about 231 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 2: how things might work than people who have not been 232 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,079 Speaker 2: guessing as often as you are guessing. But the truth 233 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 2: of it is that I am aware that I am 234 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:52,079 Speaker 2: always guessing, and particularly with stand up comedy or comedy 235 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 2: in general, it is a process of guess work, and 236 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 2: sometimes you guess wrong and you dust yourself off, and 237 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 2: next time you try to guess better. I don't know 238 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 2: what's going to work. I absolutely don't know what's going 239 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 2: to work. And I often say to people, if you 240 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 2: want to see what I thought the show was going 241 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 2: to be, you have to come on the first night. 242 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 2: So This comes back to this idea of that process 243 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 2: of creation and recreation. In the process of creation, I'm 244 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 2: guessing at what I think the show might be. And then, 245 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 2: of course, by then doing the show, you go through 246 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 2: this process of the audience telling you, yes, that is 247 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 2: what the show is. No, that is not what the 248 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 2: show is, and then it becomes a collaboration between you 249 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 2: and the audience what the show is. By the time 250 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 2: I get to the end of the tour, the show 251 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 2: is not the show that I started the tour with. 252 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,079 Speaker 2: So you know, you could look at that and go, well, 253 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 2: I was wrong. I was wrong a lot. I needed 254 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 2: some external feedback to shape, you know, what the show 255 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,719 Speaker 2: was going to be. It becomes a collaboration, a two 256 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 2: way conversation between me and my audience. But that's not 257 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 2: entirely how I write now, So that would be an 258 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 2: unfair or misslee weight, because a lot of how I 259 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 2: write now is through the process of these improvise shows 260 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 2: that I do, where I very much go on stage 261 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 2: with Will I will have perhaps written that seventy thousand 262 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 2: word document and I'll have a sense of what's in there, 263 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 2: but I certainly haven't. You know, he's gone this is 264 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 2: a joke, or this is a routine, or this is 265 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 2: you know where, how the structure of this piece will be. 266 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 2: It's very much that idea of here are some themes 267 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 2: that I'm interested in, or some topics that I'm interested in, 268 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 2: and then I will go on stage and do these 269 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 2: improvise shows, which are what it says on the ticket. 270 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 2: They are completely made up on the spot. I talk 271 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 2: to the audience, I open my mouth, I see what 272 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 2: comes out. The way I describe it is like jumping 273 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 2: out of a plane without a parachute and then trying 274 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 2: to learn how to fly on the way down. But 275 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 2: that is it connects with a different part of my 276 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 2: creativity than sitting in front of a computer or sitting 277 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 2: in front of a notepad in a cafe would, because 278 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 2: there is an engagement with your creative brain that is 279 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 2: unleashed by the necessity of an audience being there needing 280 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 2: to be entertained. It is very easy to convince myself 281 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 2: sitting in my office in the comfort of my own 282 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 2: space that something is amusing. But the minute that you 283 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 2: are out there in front of an audience, armed with 284 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 2: nothing more than your imagination, in that moment, needing to 285 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 2: entertain them, then your brain, by necessity, engages in a 286 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 2: different way. So a lot of my creative process these 287 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 2: days happens in that furnace of walking out unarmed in 288 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 2: front of an audience and seeing what happens now, Then 289 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 2: what will happen after that is I will then take 290 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 2: those ideas back to the drawing board and play with 291 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 2: them and structure them and see what worked or what 292 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 2: I unlocked that I hadn't thought about, or a way 293 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 2: that I attacked an idea that wasn't how I thought 294 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 2: I would attack it, Or I'll find in the moment 295 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 2: a connection between two ideas that wasn't obvious to me 296 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 2: when I had them written down in front of me. 297 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 2: So there is a structural creative space that I have 298 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 2: signed myself up to. You know that some people, I imagine 299 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 2: would find quite terrifying, but I find actually invigorating. It's 300 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 2: my favorite part of the process. Again, I like the 301 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 2: creation more than I like the recreation, and so for me, 302 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 2: that's the purest of the creative state, you know, like 303 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 2: I'm just there, me, a microphone, my ideas and audience 304 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 2: and no nothing to lose. Yet I guess that's the 305 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 2: other thing too. I mean, I think that audience, there 306 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 2: would be people listening to this who would think that's 307 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 2: terrifying you you know, Like, no, I'm much more terrified 308 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 2: when a joke I think is good doesn't work, as 309 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 2: opposed to at that point where I don't have any 310 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 2: attachment to anything because I don't have a plan. You know, 311 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 2: this is just purely you know, me working it out, 312 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 2: like you know, being in the space where it's fun. 313 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 2: You know, this is my brain is firing and I'm 314 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 2: testing myself and I'm exploring my imagination and I'm trying 315 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 2: to push myself to go to places that I haven't 316 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 2: gone before. It's actually much more scary as you're then 317 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 2: trying to structure something and put it together and road 318 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 2: test it when it's when it's not working. When when 319 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 2: something that you've just made up on the spot doesn't work, well, 320 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 2: I had no attachment to it anyway, so I'm not 321 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 2: you know, it doesn't destroy me that it's not working now. 322 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: So will when you're trying to create a joke, how 323 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: loosely or tightly are you scripting that? And the you know, 324 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: the key points or things that you need to land on. 325 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 2: I mean, eventually tightly, not at the start. I try 326 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 2: to keep it very loose at the start. As I said, 327 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 2: that process of picking apart an idea. So okay, So 328 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 2: on the bookshelf behind you, I love it. By the 329 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 2: way that obviously not everybody can see this, but there's 330 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 2: a bookshelf behind you. There's what I'm looking at at 331 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 2: the moment. Is my first observation is that, like me, 332 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 2: you color code your books as opposed to alphabet ties 333 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 2: or or you know. So I love that. So that's 334 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 2: the first thing that I noticed. I also noticed that 335 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 2: the bookshelf is different shapes, you know, there's different shapes 336 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 2: and sizes like on that bookshelf, like you know, which 337 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 2: means that there's only certain books that you could put 338 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 2: it on different shelves because of the sizes of them, 339 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 2: which affects the way that you would check the stack 340 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 2: those books. I wonder if there's been a choice in 341 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 2: the way the colors are arranged, if you've like designed 342 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 2: it with the rest of the room, whether you like 343 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 2: you know, there is a procession from like blue to 344 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 2: red to orange to yellow. You know, you've got a 345 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 2: doctor Seuss quote up there on the corner, like you know, 346 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 2: and and you know, so for me, my brain just 347 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 2: starts to look at all these things and pick them 348 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 2: apart and just think, there's plants in the corner. I 349 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 2: wonder if they're real plants. I wonder if in a 350 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 2: room where you've got carpets, you've got plants on the shelves, 351 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,239 Speaker 2: are you're watering those? Like do you have to make 352 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 2: sure that there's something under those plants that you don't 353 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 2: have a spot there on the carpet that's going to 354 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 2: get damp? Like what is this room? Like is this 355 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 2: a place that you actually come to read or is 356 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 2: it just like an office where you record that? Like 357 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 2: is this the place where you read those books? Are 358 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 2: those books they're in the background because you're trying to 359 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 2: send some sort of signal when you do this podcast 360 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 2: that like, look at me, I'm a person who reads books, 361 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 2: and this is like my background, Like these are just 362 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 2: I don't mean those any of those things as like 363 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 2: anything other than trying to give you an example of 364 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 2: these other thoughts that are constantly happening in my brain 365 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 2: while we are, Like I'm having this conversation with you, 366 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 2: but all these things are also happening in my brain 367 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 2: at the same time. So initially that's how everything gets examined. 368 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 2: So if I am looking at, you know, my observations 369 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 2: of what it's like to live in the anti VAXXS 370 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 2: capital of Australia at the height of a global pandemic, 371 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 2: originally I have thousands of thoughts about that. It's about 372 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 2: trying to get through the noise to try and work 373 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 2: out which of those thoughts are compelling or interesting or 374 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 2: even just a place to start. 375 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: So I want to ask, like, on the on what 376 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 1: you've been observing in the backdrop? Where where then would 377 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: the humor come in? 378 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 2: Not sure yet, Like maybe it would be something like yeah, 379 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 2: if I was going to say this, it's like, okay, 380 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 2: just for example, like and we're really just early on 381 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 2: here as going, is it mean to put, you know, 382 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 2: plants so next to the thing that plants are destroyed 383 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 2: to make books, Like is that rude to the plants? 384 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 2: Are there? Plants very just nervously there in the corner 385 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 2: going I hope I never turned into a tree and 386 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 2: then somebody's going to chop me down and turn me 387 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 2: into one of these books. It's really like, you know, 388 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 2: I mean, this feels a little inappropriate to these plants, 389 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 2: like making them seem so close to these books. You know, 390 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 2: it might be something dumb like that, or the idea 391 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 2: that like literally on the other side you have you know, 392 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,959 Speaker 2: there's doctor SEUs, there's paintings of plants that match the 393 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 2: pots on the other side, and I'm like, you know, 394 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,360 Speaker 2: like I mean to me the comedic idea of how 395 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 2: that was arranged, Like the idea that That's one of 396 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 2: the things we say I'm growing all the time is 397 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 2: assume everything's on purpose the first time that you do something. 398 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 2: Assume that every decision that someone has made, the fact 399 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 2: that your jumper that you're wearing today matches the books 400 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 2: that are immediately behind you, is that on purpose? Like 401 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 2: imagine if it was on purpose, what would that mean comediically? Now, 402 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 2: that might absolutely go nowhere, right, But it's just about 403 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 2: exploring that idea, thinking about how can I tear this 404 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 2: apart to see if there's anything interesting in there that 405 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 2: I can then rebuild. So that firstly, it's about finding 406 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 2: the ingredients, seeing if anything just appears to me, what 407 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 2: is the most compelling thing to me, what is the 408 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 2: most compelling idea that I am observing here, and then 409 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 2: trying to get rid of some of the other stuff 410 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 2: so that you can concentrate on that more and then 411 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 2: try to create something humorous out of the observation. 412 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: We will be back with Will soon talking about what 413 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: he does when he has a bad day but he 414 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: still has to get on stage to perform that night. 415 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 1: If you're looking for more tips to improve the way 416 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,199 Speaker 1: that you work, I write a short fortnightly newsletter that 417 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: contains three cool things that I've discovered that helped me 418 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: work better, ranging from software and gadgets that I'm loving 419 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: through to interesting research findings. You can sign up for 420 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: that at Howiwork dot code. That's how I work dot co. 421 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: So let's talk about recreation because when I was reading 422 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 1: your book and you know, you're obviously so passionate about 423 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 1: the creation stage, thinking how do you maintain your enthusiasm 424 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 1: for recreation? And you know, once you've got the show 425 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: sort of iterated to a point where those jokes are 426 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: scripted in their finest, how you maintain your enthusiasm? But maybe, like, 427 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: let's let's work through that iteration, Like what do those 428 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: first two weeks of a stand up show look like? 429 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 1: For example, you're recording every performance and listening to it 430 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: or watching it back, and what are you listening or 431 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: looking for? What does that look like? 432 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I record every performance and I would say 433 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 2: ninety nine point nine percent of those have never been 434 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 2: listened to. What I have them, I have them all. 435 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 2: The truth of it is that I know, like it's 436 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 2: rare that I don't immediately know what worked or what 437 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 2: didn't work. It's it's I guess that's just having done 438 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 2: it long enough that I really have to go to 439 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 2: the video replay to work out why something worked or 440 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 2: did not work. Occasionally, if something works, it like it's rare. 441 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,919 Speaker 2: If it goes wrong, I almost always know why it 442 00:23:54,960 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 2: went wrong. Sometimes. The thing that is harder to reconcile 443 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 2: is sometimes people will laugh at something that you hadn't 444 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 2: really intended to be funny, and that is more interesting, 445 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 2: like on the night when you get a laugh on 446 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,239 Speaker 2: a line or a way you said something, if you've 447 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 2: said something in a way that you've never said it before, 448 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:20,959 Speaker 2: and it works so much better than it's ever worked before. 449 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 2: So that in part answers the question that brought us 450 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 2: into this was how do I keep that process of 451 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 2: recreation in it. I now get to a point where 452 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 2: I will structure a joke or a routine in a 453 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,199 Speaker 2: way that so, for example, if I am going to 454 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 2: tell the story of like moving to the anti VAXs 455 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 2: capital of the world at the height of a global pandemic, say, 456 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 2: this is going to be yeah, So I want to 457 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 2: introduce this idea because this I need to This needs 458 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 2: to be the premise at the top. So I need 459 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 2: to have a joke that sets that's that up. Now, 460 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 2: how do I set that up? What do I want 461 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 2: to do with that? So here's what's interesting to me. 462 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 2: I'm a man who believes in science and the scientific method. 463 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 2: So this is how I'm just trying to run you 464 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 2: through how I would explore this idea. Because what I 465 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 2: don't want to do is start I know that at 466 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 2: some stage I'm going to be making a little fun of, 467 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 2: at least the ideas of some people in the community. 468 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 2: I hope that I'm not making fun of the community itself. 469 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 2: Like I very very much like to stress the idea 470 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 2: that I separate the person from the idea that good 471 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 2: people can have bad ideas and bad baboo can have 472 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 2: good ideas. That's the worst one. But I want to 473 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 2: set something out so Firstly, I want to make a 474 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 2: joke at my own expense. This is just structural stuff, right, 475 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,120 Speaker 2: I'm trying to talk to you through how I would 476 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 2: structure this. If I know I'm going to be making 477 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 2: fun of other people later, what I want to do 478 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 2: first is make fun of myself first, so that people 479 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 2: are aware that I am first willing to laugh at 480 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 2: me before I am willing to laugh at other people. 481 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 2: So this is when I talk about structure. This is 482 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 2: very important. If I flip them around the other way 483 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 2: changes the entire tone of the show, tone of the joke. 484 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 2: It's important that I structure those two things in that way. 485 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 2: So the joke that I used in the in the 486 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 2: show and the book is like, you know, I'm a white, 487 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 2: middle aged Australian man. I've never been a minority before, right, 488 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 2: So like, great, okay, people immediately get a real sense 489 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 2: of who I am as a person. But be that 490 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 2: I have an awareness of what the context of where 491 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 2: that joke lives, of my place in the world. That like, 492 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 2: the idea that I've never been a minority before is 493 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 2: a privilege, is a luxury? Right, Like that's all inherent 494 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 2: in that line. Then after that there is a period 495 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 2: of like, there is a line that could be like, oh, 496 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 2: you know, yeah, I've never been a minority before. I 497 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 2: didn't like it. It's no good good ten out of 498 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 2: ten would not recommend. Don't know how the rest of 499 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 2: you've put up with it for so long. You know, 500 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 2: I've never heard a word about it. Why don't you 501 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 2: complain more? Whatever that might be. That line won't be scripted. 502 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 2: It will be however it comes out on the night. 503 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 2: It will be some variation of that. But in that moment, 504 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 2: I will be listening to the audience, leaning into the 505 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 2: if they really get that I'm you know, they get 506 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 2: that I'm completely taking the piss actually out of white 507 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 2: middle aged men in that joke rather than them, and 508 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 2: they're on board with that. That could go for thirty seconds, 509 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 2: forty five seconds. I could really lean into that. So 510 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 2: that's the difference or how I try to combine both, 511 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 2: like the idea of how I need something structured, here 512 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,439 Speaker 2: is this thing that I definitely need to do, and 513 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 2: how I would like to keep that process in creation, 514 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 2: which is I leave this next bit loose to be 515 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 2: in the moment I know the intention of what I 516 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 2: will do. There will always be some sort of riff 517 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 2: off the back of it it But depending on the 518 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 2: feedback I'm getting from the audience, it might be quite 519 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 2: a short rift or it might be quite a long 520 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 2: rift that I explore in the moment. So it's about 521 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 2: having the thing, the structure of knowing this is the 522 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 2: beat that I want to talk about first, This is 523 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 2: the important stuff that needs to be said, And now 524 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 2: here is a little room for improvisation, for icing, for flavor, 525 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 2: for making it very unique to this night. If you 526 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 2: came on this night, you saw this joke in this order, 527 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 2: and then you saw the next joke in this order, 528 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 2: but the little bit that you saw afterwards would have 529 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 2: been different last night, and all be different again tonight. 530 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 2: It will be in the same zone. It will have 531 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 2: the same intention, but it won't be worded the same. 532 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 2: It won't like so that I know that's hard maybe 533 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 2: for people to get their head around, but it is 534 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,959 Speaker 2: a way I structure something is I think about what 535 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 2: the important tent poles will be, and then I try 536 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 2: to leave some room in that to make it unique 537 00:28:57,880 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 2: to the experience that people are having on the night, 538 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 2: so that I am trying to connect both with my 539 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 2: recreative state, but also with my creative state in that 540 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 2: moment and engage that. 541 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: When you're well into a tour of a show and 542 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: you're having a day or days where you are just 543 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: not feeling like getting on stage and making people laugh 544 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: for an hour, how are you getting into the state 545 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: that you need to be at. 546 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 2: I think it's might sound weird to people, but it's 547 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 2: actually the opposite. It's the easiest when you're not having 548 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 2: a hard when you're not having a good time. They 549 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 2: people think that, I mean, look that this is an oversimplification, 550 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 2: of course, because but life is hard more often than 551 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 2: it is easy. I think for everybody. Really. You know, 552 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 2: if you can only perform in perfect conditions, whatever your 553 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 2: job might be, then it's probably a hobby not a job. 554 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 2: You know, Roy and HG. You know, I learned something 555 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 2: from them very early on. They were telling me a 556 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 2: story that said they would often have you know, someone 557 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 2: come up to me and say, O, my mates when 558 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 2: they get together are funnier talking about sport than you 559 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 2: guys are. And they said, yeah, that's probably true. We're 560 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 2: just good at doing it when the red light comes on, 561 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 2: And that is absolutely true. Everyone listening to this will 562 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 2: have a friend who's funnier than me because they know 563 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 2: all your stories and they can reference that time that 564 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 2: you know, you got too drunk, or you know, whatever happened, 565 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 2: and they're hilarious. The job of the professional comedian is 566 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 2: to be able to be funny when the red light 567 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 2: comes on, and so I often think the job is 568 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 2: it's not about creating perfect conditions, for it is about 569 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 2: your capacity to do it when the conditions aren't perfect. 570 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 2: That separates the people who are hobbyist from the people 571 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 2: who are professionals. And so, if anything, I find it 572 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 2: Barry humphreyes it's a bit unfashionable, unfashionable to quote Barry 573 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 2: Humphreys these days, but I think this is a great insight. 574 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 2: He was once asked about, you know, what's it like 575 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 2: to walk out on stage in front of three thousand people? 576 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 2: What thought is going through your mind? And he said, ah, 577 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 2: alone at last? And I think that's right. It's not 578 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 2: entirely true, but there is something about being on stage 579 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 2: in that moment where you cannot be thinking about anything else, 580 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,719 Speaker 2: you know, the very nature of having to do your 581 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,479 Speaker 2: job in that moment, you can get lost in the 582 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 2: communication that you are having with the audience doing the show. 583 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 2: You can't be thinking about whether you left the iron on, 584 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,239 Speaker 2: or the problems of your day, or what's going on 585 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 2: in your life, or even the world in a way, 586 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 2: and it's such a safe space, you know. Like Mark 587 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 2: Maron quotes this, I don't think he was the person 588 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 2: who originally says it, which is comedians become comedians so 589 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 2: that they can control how people laugh at them. And 590 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 2: I think that there is we all are aware that 591 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 2: people are going to laugh at us, but when you're 592 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 2: on stage, you're in control. I could be talking about 593 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 2: the darkest things or the most desperate state of the world, 594 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 2: but I'm in control of it. You know, for at 595 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 2: least that hour, I am in control of it. And 596 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 2: so the idea of whether you've had a bad day, 597 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 2: or whether your life is falling apart or terrible, or 598 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 2: whether the state of the world is particularly terrible. In 599 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 2: some ways, they're my favorite times to do stand up 600 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 2: and I think it's probably why I missed it so 601 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 2: desperately when the world was going through such hard times, 602 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 2: is that I didn't have that. I didn't have that 603 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 2: hour a day where you know, I guess you know, 604 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 2: I don't know if it was Rummed Us or you 605 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 2: know Oasis who said be here now. But the very 606 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 2: process of being a stand up comedian is this idea 607 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 2: that it is mindfulness. I mean, you know at least 608 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 2: that idea of you have to one hundred percent be 609 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 2: in that moment, and you are at your best when 610 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 2: you are in the moment. It's a conversation between you 611 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 2: and the audience. I'm doing them majority of the talking, 612 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 2: but I am constantly listening to the audience for what 613 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 2: it is that they're engaging with. And it absolutely from 614 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 2: night to night. This is the major variant that you 615 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 2: will find in the show. The majority of the content 616 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 2: is the same, but the way that it's presented can 617 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 2: be incredibly different. Like, you know, the way that you 618 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 2: would present the show to a Wednesday night audience in 619 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 2: a beautiful theater, Say you're at the Art Center in Melbourne. 620 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 2: You know on a Wednesday night. You know, people are 621 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 2: sitting in comfortable chairs. They've paid, you know, a decent 622 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 2: amount of money. There might be half of the crowd 623 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 2: who own the everc shows at the Art Center. Is 624 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 2: very different to the way that you would present those 625 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 2: exact same jokes to a Saturday night, you know, basement 626 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 2: comedy crowd, because the audience is different. The jokes aren't different, 627 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 2: the presentation is different, the conversation you're having with the 628 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 2: audience is different. You know. I use the analogy in 629 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 2: the book about the audience being the ocean and the 630 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 2: performers are the surfers. And you know, you can be 631 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 2: a great surfer, but you can only serve to the 632 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 2: conditions that are presented to you. So yeah, so the 633 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 2: bad day thing when life's tough. I mean, I think 634 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 2: you know, they always say that comedy is tragedy plus time, 635 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,959 Speaker 2: although you know what did I think mel Brooks said? 636 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 2: Tragedy is when I cut my finger. In comedy is 637 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 2: when you fall down an open seer and die. But 638 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 2: I like, bad things most often lead to good comedy. 639 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 2: I mean, that's what the book is, right, Like, it's 640 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 2: been funny to me that, like some people who've read 641 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 2: the book have come to me with this attitude of like, oh, 642 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 2: it's quite emotional and it's quite harrowing in parts, and 643 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 2: it doesn't really feel like that to me. I thought 644 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 2: it was funny, like all the things that are in there. Yes, 645 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 2: there are some heavy topics that are discussed, and some 646 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 2: tough things that I'm reconciling with. But the reason that 647 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,040 Speaker 2: all those things are in the book is because I 648 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 2: thought I had a funny take on those things. There 649 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,720 Speaker 2: are things that happened. The book is dedicated to Irene 650 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 2: and Winnie. Irene was my nan who died during COVID 651 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 2: and I was not able to see her to say 652 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 2: goodbye because of the restrictions. And Winnie was our dog 653 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 2: that died very prematurely. And look, if I'd wanted to 654 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 2: write a book where I wanted people to sit at 655 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 2: home and you weep and you feel sorry for me, 656 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 2: and like pull it people's heart strings, I have the 657 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 2: skills to have written those two stories in a way 658 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,800 Speaker 2: that would have been absolutely tear jerking. And you know, 659 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 2: I could have manipulated the people reading the book to 660 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 2: have a reaction to that, you know I mean, and 661 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 2: I'm sure the publishers would have loved it, you know, 662 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 2: the big emotional kick in the book. But that wasn't 663 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 2: my intention with the book. I didn't find either of 664 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 2: those things funny, and so they're not in the book 665 00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 2: because I didn't have a funny take on them. I'm 666 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 2: a comedian, like I'm a stand up comedian. But also, 667 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 2: you know, when I'm writing a book or presenting things, 668 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 2: I'm looking at, can I take this bad thing and 669 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 2: have a comedic take on it? And so that is 670 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 2: the way that I am trying to process these things. 671 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 2: So yeah, I think a lot of good a lot 672 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 2: of good comedy comes from, you know, bad situations. And 673 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 2: I think it can be quite frustrating if you are 674 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 2: the loved one or friend of a comedian, because quite often, 675 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 2: I think we have an incapacity to sometimes recognize or 676 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 2: deal with the inherent shitness of a situation, because there 677 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 2: is a part of us that the O is going, well, 678 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 2: this will this will serve me well later I'm trying 679 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 2: to put you know, my doctor's telling me that I 680 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,319 Speaker 2: might have skin cancer and I'm like, okay, great, I'm 681 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,280 Speaker 2: taking notes, will be great. 682 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,360 Speaker 1: Now your book I am not fine? Thanks, is out now. 683 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,280 Speaker 1: I read it over the weekend. It's brilliant. It's so funny. 684 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: I was I was on holidays over the weekend and 685 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: it was my weekend reading book and I was sitting 686 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 1: on the couch. Well my partner was also reading, and 687 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 1: I'm just laughing out loud and feeling, you know, at 688 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,440 Speaker 1: feeling like that that weird feeling when it's like, is 689 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 1: my partner wondering why I'm laughing out loud so often? 690 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 1: But it was it was so great. How else can 691 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: can listeners connect with you? Well, aside from going out 692 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: and buying the book? 693 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,800 Speaker 2: Yes, I have a show on the ABC Car Question Everything, 694 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 2: which is a new show where we're trying to put 695 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,399 Speaker 2: new comedians or people that haven't been seen very often 696 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 2: on TV on TV. So all the old episodes of 697 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 2: that are on ABC I Views, so people can go 698 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,959 Speaker 2: and check those out. That'd be really cool. Ignore last 699 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 2: season because we had to make that in a lockdown, 700 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 2: but this season has been really fun and great. We've 701 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,759 Speaker 2: got a studio audience again, so it's it's really fun. 702 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,359 Speaker 2: I'd really love people to check that out. And yeah, 703 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 2: I have a bunch of podcasts. If they go to 704 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,320 Speaker 2: toe FOP t O f OP dot com, tofop dot com, 705 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 2: then you can find links to all podcast that is 706 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 2: the home of where they all are. 707 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,439 Speaker 1: Amazing. Will thank you so much for your time. I've 708 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,799 Speaker 1: just loved chatting to you and understanding your process. Having 709 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 1: been a fan for many, many years, so thank you. 710 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 2: Oh, that's all right, my pleasure. 711 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 1: I found it fascinating to hear Will's process for creating 712 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: comedy after watching him on my TV and on stage 713 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: for the last two decades. I really loved the moment 714 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 1: in this interview where he took me through how he 715 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: was processing or observing my zoom background, which is a 716 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 1: wall and a bookshelf in my studio. And since that interview, 717 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 1: I've been trying to take moments during my day where 718 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 1: I apply that same level of detail and analysis to 719 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: simply observing what I can see around me. It hasn't 720 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,360 Speaker 1: led to jokes that are as funny as Will's, but 721 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,400 Speaker 1: it's been an interesting exercise and has also been quite 722 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,719 Speaker 1: good at keeping me in the present moment. How I 723 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,959 Speaker 1: Work is produced by Inventing, with production support from Dead's 724 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 1: Set Studios. The producer for this episode was Liam Riordan, 725 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: and thank you tomt Nimba, who does the audio mix 726 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 1: for every episode and makes everything sound so much better 727 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 1: than it would have otherwise. See you next time.