1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: Do you find yourself feeling stuck? Do you feel that 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: the things that you hold most important don't actually end 3 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: up getting achieved and instead you're stuck in auto pilot 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: or maybe just weathering the storm. You might have fallen 5 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: out of touch with your values, if you can relate 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: to that, or maybe you haven't properly identified your values 7 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: to begin with, Dr Emily Musgrove or Dr M as 8 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,319 Speaker 1: you might know her, is a leading clinical psychologist and 9 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: the residence on The Imperfect podcast, and she is the 10 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: author of the new book Unstuck. In this quick win, 11 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: we discuss the big signs that you have fallen out 12 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: of touch with your values and the trick to figuring 13 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: out what your values actually are. Welcome to How I Work, 14 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: a show about habits, rituals, and strategies for optimizing your date. 15 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Doctor Amantha Imba. It's easy to talk 16 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: about values, but I think it's actually really hard to 17 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: identify them, and I think that most people are probably 18 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: very out of touch with their values. So where is 19 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: the best place to start? 20 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 2: Really? Basically, I would often start with a questionnaire, and 21 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 2: it sounds like a very kind of concrete, trivial way, 22 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 2: but I think it can offer us like a bit 23 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 2: of a gateway to more in depth explorations. So I 24 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 2: have a questionnaire in my book. It's based upon one 25 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,759 Speaker 2: of Russ Harris, who's the author of The Happiness Trap. 26 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 2: One of his question is, and it's pulled in from 27 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 2: some other acceptance and commitment therapy researchers, but you know, 28 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: you can go and find it online, like you know, 29 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,919 Speaker 2: values questionnaire, and at least that's us like a place 30 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 2: to start to explore basically, what is it that I 31 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 2: want my life to stand for? So how do I 32 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 2: want to show up? And it's really kind of the 33 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 2: quality of behavior rather than maybe a moral or a virtue. 34 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 2: There are also some, you know, some more kind of 35 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 2: reflective ways in which we can access our values. The 36 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 2: eightieth birthday exercise is a very common one which we'll 37 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 2: use in therapy. But in essence, it's asking you to 38 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 2: reflect upon like a milestone event in many years time, 39 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 2: and that at this milestone event you have you invite 40 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 2: friends and family to do a speech about you, And 41 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 2: the question is what is it that you would want 42 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 2: them to say about you, whether you're acting this way 43 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 2: or not? Now, what is it that you would deeply 44 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 2: like them to say about how you've lived your life, 45 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 2: and often that will uncover the things that are most important, 46 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: So things like, you know, a hope to be remembered 47 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 2: for being caring or being curious or being creative. And 48 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 2: so we can kind of use that as again as 49 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 2: like a platform to really kind of get a stronger 50 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 2: sense like how do I want to show up? 51 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I love that eightieth birthday party exercise 52 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: that you write about in Unstuck. How do you know, 53 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: like how does it show up in therapy when you're 54 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: the therapist that someone is either not in touch with 55 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: their values or is living out of alignment with them. 56 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, usually it will be that that like to 57 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 2: put a very plan that they'll be stuck, that there'll 58 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 2: be some sort of stuckness here. So there's a sense 59 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,799 Speaker 2: here that there's a gap between my values and my behavior. 60 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 2: So if for example, we might have someone that values 61 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 2: let's just say like curiosity for example, but they're finding 62 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 2: through a lot of struggle that they're getting caught an 63 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 2: autopilot all the time. Maybe they're scrolling on their phone 64 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,119 Speaker 2: a lot. There's like the mood is very flat, they're 65 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: kind of going through the motions, and so it might 66 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 2: feel there that we've kind of lost connection with this 67 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 2: value of curiosity, because curiosity is one of kind of 68 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 2: growth and openness, whereas like through daily struggles, we can get, 69 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 2: of course pulled into whatever is easiest and what feels 70 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 2: the least painful, and that can be avoidant behaviors. So 71 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 2: the presence of avoidance and behaviors that provide quick relief 72 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 2: or relief from some kind of pain often signal or 73 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 2: values disconnection. 74 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: Your clients generally aware of that when when they're describing 75 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: that behavior to you, or does it often take you, 76 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: as an external trained professional to point that discrepancy out. 77 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 2: I think it's both. You know, so some people will 78 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 2: never have thought about values before, and some people may 79 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 2: not actually be aware that this kind of discomfort that's 80 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,799 Speaker 2: here is highlighting that they're in misalignment with their values, 81 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 2: whereas other people know and that can also be really painful. 82 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 2: Like this recognition that I have like these are my values, 83 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 2: that I'm acting inconsistently with them, I think that can 84 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 2: kind of open people up to feeling shame or feeling 85 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 2: a great sadness or a disappointment. So I think it 86 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 2: can be both that we can have an awareness of 87 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 2: our values or we can just be really disconnected from them. 88 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 2: But where this is another story. 89 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 1: I think one of the things that I've heard you 90 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: talk about and you write about in Unstuck is that 91 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: values are bidirectional. Can you explain what that means? 92 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 2: Yes? Yeah, Like, as a people pleaser, for example, we 93 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 2: might hold values around being kind and being caring. So 94 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 2: you would assume then that like, the act of being 95 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 2: kind is towards other people, So my behavior is consistent 96 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 2: with the value of kindness when I'm showing up in 97 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 2: kind ways to other people. But what I didn't realize, 98 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 2: and what only kind of came to like to me 99 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 2: a few years ago, was that actually, if I value 100 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 2: being kind, I also value being kind to myself. And 101 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 2: so that might mean, for example, like boundaries, So an 102 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 2: act of kindness might be putting a boundary in place 103 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 2: rather than pleasing everybody else in order to be kind. 104 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 2: So it's a bit of a balancing act of being 105 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 2: able to recognize and again like tune in, am I 106 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 2: showing out to my values by over exerting myself all 107 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 2: the time? Or am I showing out to my values 108 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 2: by saying no or putting a boundary in place, or 109 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 2: speaking up when someone's being rude, for example. But it's 110 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 2: a really tough ask. 111 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed this quick win with Dr M. 112 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: If you'd like to listen to the full interview, you 113 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: can find a link to that in the show notes. 114 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 1: If you like today's show, make sure you get follow 115 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,239 Speaker 1: on your podcast app to be alerted when new episodes drop. 116 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: How I Work was recorded on the traditional land of 117 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: the Warrangery people, part of the Couland nation.