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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Cargottin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Thursday,

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Speaker 2: the twenty second of December. My name is Sam.

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Speaker 3: I'm Zara.

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Speaker 2: Creators of the online game Fortnite will pay a seven

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Speaker 2: hundred and seventy three million Australian dollar penalty for violating

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Speaker 2: children's privacy and tricking its users. So how was Fortnite

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Speaker 2: putting kids at risk? We'll let you know in today's

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Speaker 2: deep dive. But first, Sarah, what's making headlines today?

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Speaker 3: Foreign Affairs Minister Peenny Wong met with her Chinese government

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Speaker 3: counterpart Wang Yie in Beijing last night. The talks coin

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Speaker 3: with the fiftieth anniversary of diplomatic relations being established between

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Speaker 3: Australia and China. Wong said earlier in the week that

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Speaker 3: the meeting was important for stabilizing the relationship with China

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Speaker 3: following what she characterized as a tense period of diplomacy

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Speaker 3: between the two nations.

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Speaker 2: A public memorial service was held in Brisbane yesterday for

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Speaker 2: Constable Rachel Mcrowe and Constable Matthew Arnold, the two police

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Speaker 2: officers killed in a shootout in rural Queensland last week.

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Speaker 2: This is Queensland Premier Anastasia Palichet speaking at the service.

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Speaker 4: We will shoulder this burden together. We will rededicate ourselves

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Speaker 4: to their example of their being far more good than

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Speaker 4: there is evil, in honor of two young people who

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Speaker 4: lived what they believed, Rachel and Matthew.

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Speaker 3: Elon Musk has confirmed he will step down as Twitter's

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Speaker 3: CEO after about fifty eight percent of respondents to his

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Speaker 3: polls said that they wanted him to resign. Musk confirmed

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Speaker 3: he's still in charge of the social media platform, but

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Speaker 3: that he'll resign as soon as he finds someone quote

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Speaker 3: foolish enough to take the job. He said he will

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Speaker 3: still have an active role in the company once he

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Speaker 3: steps down.

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Speaker 2: And today's good news. Solar power capacity in the European

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Speaker 2: Union increased by almost fifty percent in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 2: New analysis found the new capacity to be enough to

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Speaker 2: meet the needs of over twelve million European homes and

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Speaker 2: could replace one hundred and two liquefied natural gas tankers.

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Speaker 2: The creators of the popular video game Fortnite will pay

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Speaker 2: a seven hundred and seventy three million dollar penalty in

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Speaker 2: the US so of allegations it breached child privacy laws

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Speaker 2: and tricks users into making unwanted payments. The penalty includes

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Speaker 2: refunds to affected users, and it's the largest payment ever

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Speaker 2: made over breaches of US consumer law.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so, I think a good starting point is what

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Speaker 3: exactly Fortnite is, because I've heard of it, but I've

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Speaker 3: never played it.

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Speaker 2: I remember it from those meme dances that people sometimes

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Speaker 2: do where they're kind of swinging their arms around like crazy.

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Speaker 3: I genuinely have no idea what you're talking like. I'm

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Speaker 3: just going to tell people you are gesturing wildly and

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Speaker 3: agree that I've never seen it before, but go on.

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Speaker 2: Well, for those of us that don't know it through

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Speaker 2: the choreography. Fortnite is actually an interactive online game created

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Speaker 2: by Epic Games and launched in twenty seventeen. It's a

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Speaker 2: third person shooter game where up to one hundred people

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Speaker 2: or teams compete. You progress through the game by exploring

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Speaker 2: an island, collecting weapons, and fighting with other players you

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Speaker 2: short of Importantly, you can also communicate with other players,

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Speaker 2: either through online messaging or voice chat. Fortnite is generally

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Speaker 2: free to play, but Epic has generated billions of dollars

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Speaker 2: through in game purchases like cosmetics or skins for your

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Speaker 2: avatar and what's called battle passes to unlock addition, no content.

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Speaker 3: While the Island of certainly No Strangers explained phenomena.

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Speaker 1: Never before have we seen anything quite like this.

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Speaker 2: Even though there's a global following, it's particularly significant for

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Speaker 2: this story that it's very popular with children.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so let's move then to what the actual claims

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Speaker 3: were that were made against Epic Games, which is the

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Speaker 3: parent company of Fortnite.

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Speaker 2: Well, the regulators we're going to be talking about today

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Speaker 2: are the Federal Trade Commission. They're known as the FTC,

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Speaker 2: and they're a US consumer protection agency, and they were

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Speaker 2: the ones that filed court proceedings against Epic alleging is

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Speaker 2: practices for collecting user information, so storing data and soliciting payments,

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Speaker 2: so getting money out of users broke consumer laws. The

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Speaker 2: FTC accused Epic of unlawfully collecting the personal information of

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Speaker 2: children without the consent of their parents. They also alleged

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Speaker 2: children were then exposed to harassment and psychologically traumatizing content

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Speaker 2: when the game paed them up with adult strangers, and

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Speaker 2: this is where we bring in that kind of messaging

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Speaker 2: and interacting with other users around the world aspect. The

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Speaker 2: FDC also argued Epic tricked players and again especially children,

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Speaker 2: into making hundreds of millions of dollars of unwanted payments,

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Speaker 2: again with no parental involvement, and then barred users from

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Speaker 2: accessing their purchases when they disputed the charges. It reminds

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Speaker 2: me of one time I was probably about eleven, and

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Speaker 2: I ordered a ring tone for my phone off one

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Speaker 2: of those ads that used to be in a magazine,

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Speaker 2: and I ended up getting so something that you were in. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 2: I really wanted I don't know, probably acon or something

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Speaker 2: as a ring tone, but I ended up getting billed

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Speaker 2: hundreds of dollars or my parents ended up getting billed

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Speaker 2: hundreds of dollars, And it was a very complex process

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Speaker 2: to get that refund back, and I guess this is

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Speaker 2: the modern day example.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so aside from this kind of monetary exchange that

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Speaker 3: you've spoken about, there are a few elements to this story.

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Speaker 3: Can we just start with this idea of children being

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Speaker 3: exposed to harassment and traumatizing content, because that's the out

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Speaker 3: to me, is pretty concerned.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, especially when you think about the game

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Speaker 2: as being promoted to kids under thirteen. And the evidence

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Speaker 2: that they relied on to prove this point was their

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Speaker 2: use of animation, their child owned it activities, and language

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Speaker 2: and music choices. I was also reading something that the

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Speaker 2: idea that there's this Fortnite merch universe targeted at children

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Speaker 2: was also part of the evidence, and this evidence shows

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Speaker 2: that targeting is working. Publicly available survey results from twenty

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Speaker 2: nineteen showed that fifty three percent of US children aged

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Speaker 2: ten to twelve played Fortnite every week. All of that

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Speaker 2: to say, the game's popular with kids. And the problem

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Speaker 2: that presented is when you have a game that's really

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Speaker 2: popular with children, and the company knows it's popular with children,

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Speaker 2: but then you also have a really big reliance in

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Speaker 2: the game on voice chat and talking to other users

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Speaker 2: around the world, it presented a risk that materialized that

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Speaker 2: kids could be bullied, threatened, and harassed. It also alleged

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Speaker 2: that children were exposed via this voice chat function to

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Speaker 2: dangerous and potentially traumatizing issues relate to suicide or self harm.

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Speaker 3: Those are some fairly serious allegations. Can we turn now

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Speaker 3: to the allegation that children were being tricked or deceived

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Speaker 3: into purchases like You and Your Ringtime.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the modern day acon. Now, how this presented was

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Speaker 2: a free game, but you could buy add ons during

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Speaker 2: the game, and the issue here was how the game

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Speaker 2: was recording the parents credit card details. Obviously, a ten

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Speaker 2: to twelve year old doesn't have a credit card, so

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Speaker 2: they're relying on their parents' money, and the details allowed

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Speaker 2: the kids to keep making purchases without their consent. So

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Speaker 2: in some cases, even when the parents would say, yes,

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Speaker 2: you can spend five dollars on extra armor for your

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Speaker 2: Fortnite character, the parents weren't aware that there were hundreds

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Speaker 2: of dollars being spent. In the two years that followed.

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Speaker 2: The complaint included some testimony, including this message from a parent.

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Speaker 2: Epic Games is swindling parents with unauthorized game purchases, tricking

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Speaker 2: young consumers and using shady practices for billing. I authorized

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Speaker 2: a one time Epic Games purchase for my eleven year

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Speaker 2: old son, only to discover Epic Games did not erase

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Speaker 2: my credit card info, and thus my son has been

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Speaker 2: making unauthorized purchases since now. Epic didn't allow users to

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Speaker 2: cancel or undue charges, so the complaints mechanism wasn't really established.

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Speaker 2: They were allegedly using so called dark patterns, which is

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Speaker 2: a design trick to make it almost impossible for customers

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Speaker 2: to cancel or to request a refund for unauthorized charges.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of when you got to look up a

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Speaker 2: phone number of a company that you want to complain

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Speaker 2: to when you can't find one, or when you're finding

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Speaker 2: it really hard to cancel a plan, they keep offering

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Speaker 2: you different deals. All of that is in that kind

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Speaker 2: of dark pattern world, all right.

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Speaker 3: So with all of those allegations in mind, what was

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Speaker 3: the decision this week? Why are we talking about this case?

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Speaker 2: Well, this week, with all of those claims, Epic and

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Speaker 2: the FTC agreed on a settlement for the allegations. For

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Speaker 2: the privacy component of the allegations, Epic will pay four

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Speaker 2: hundred and nine million Australian dollars, and that's actually the

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Speaker 2: largest ever penalty for violating a law managed by the FT,

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Speaker 2: so a consumer angled issue. And for the unwonted payments issue,

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Speaker 2: Epic will refund customers three hundred and sixty four million

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Speaker 2: Australian dollars. So parents will be getting some money back,

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Speaker 2: and that's the biggest refund yielded for an FDC gaming case.

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Speaker 3: Okay, and so how has Epic, who is obviously the

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Speaker 3: middle of all of this, how have they responded well?

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Speaker 2: In the statement, Epic said they accepted the settlement because

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Speaker 2: they wanted to be at quote the forefront of consumer

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Speaker 2: protection and provide the best experience for our players. The

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Speaker 2: company also said we will continue to be upfront about

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Speaker 2: what players can expect when making purchases, ensure cancelations and

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Speaker 2: refunds are simple, and build safeguards that help keep our

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Speaker 2: ecosystem safe and fund for audiences of all ages.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So say that I am a player who's been

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Speaker 3: unfairly charged. I've racked up quite a hefty bill on

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Speaker 3: mum's card. What happens now for me?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think your mother and you probably need to

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Speaker 2: have a conversation about your gaming habits, Sarah. But in

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Speaker 2: case you want to keep tracking down that refund, the

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Speaker 2: settlement must be approved by the Federal Court before it

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Speaker 2: can be completed. So the best way to imagine this

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Speaker 2: is the two parties go back to the judge and say, actually,

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Speaker 2: in the side room of the court, we've identified that

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Speaker 2: we can reach a settlement, and if the court's cool

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Speaker 2: with that and thinks it's fair, it will approve it.

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Speaker 2: The FTC has said it will if the settlement is approved,

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Speaker 2: organize a refund program to compensate players who have been

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Speaker 2: unfairly charged by Epic Games. They're also going to adopt

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Speaker 2: stronger privacy settings for children sounds like a quod idea

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Speaker 2: as part of the settlement, which means that voice and

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Speaker 2: text communication for Fortnite's online gaming will be turned off

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Speaker 2: by default. And as a side note, I never did

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Speaker 2: get that refund for my acon ringtone.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry to hear it, but thanks for the hat Sam,

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Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us on the daily OS. If you

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Speaker 3: learned something from today's episode, don't forget to hit subscribe

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Speaker 3: so there's a TDA episode waiting for you every weekday morning.

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Speaker 3: We'll be back again tomorrow morning, but until then have

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Speaker 3: a brilliant day

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Speaker 1: Kick kicking kick