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Speaker 1: Have you lost weight before and when you lost it,

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Speaker 1: did you lose it quickly or slowly? Is it better

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Speaker 1: to lose weight slowly or is it more motivating to

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Speaker 1: go hard and get it off quickly. On today's episode

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Speaker 1: of The Nutrition Couch, we discussed the pros and cons

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Speaker 1: of quick versus slow weight loss and share what the

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Speaker 1: latest research in this area shows. Hi. I'm Susie Burrows

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Speaker 1: and each week we bring you The Nutrition Couch, the

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Speaker 1: bye weekly podcast that keeps you up to date on

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Speaker 1: everything you need to know in the world of nutrition,

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Speaker 1: as well as quick versus fast weight loss. Today we

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Speaker 1: thought it was time we talked about Kato Foods and

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Speaker 1: in particular a brand new peanut butter that's doing the

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Speaker 1: round and it's under the headline of Kembo. And our

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Speaker 1: listener question is all about chocolate and what do we

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Speaker 1: think is the best variety from a taste perspective but

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Speaker 1: also nutritionally. But to kick us off the out, I

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Speaker 1: just came across this very interesting article which came from

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Speaker 1: the Conversation, which does some really great pieces on scientific

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Speaker 1: evidence and weight control this morning, and I thought that's

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Speaker 1: really interesting, isn't it, Because in the good old days,

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Speaker 1: you know, about ten twenty years we would speak about

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Speaker 1: it's important to lose weight slow and sustainably, and you know,

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Speaker 1: if you lose it too quickly, it will all come

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Speaker 1: back on. And then of course we'll see weight loss

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Speaker 1: interventions where people will report losing three, five, eight kilos

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Speaker 1: in a week. You know, what is a reference point

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Speaker 1: for our listeners and what does the evidence show when

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Speaker 1: it comes to fast versus slow? So just kick us off.

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Speaker 1: I think let's get a definition of what is fast

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Speaker 1: versus slow. So I would say, in my clinical experience,

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Speaker 1: if someone is less than one hundred kilos and if

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Speaker 1: you're able to get a solid half up to a

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Speaker 1: kilo a week off, that's pretty solid results. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: say it's slow. I'd say it's average. I think when

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Speaker 1: we're getting to two three kilos a week, it's usually

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Speaker 1: either people have got a lot more weight to lose,

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Speaker 1: or it's in that very initial phase of weight loss

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Speaker 1: where people are losing sort of glycogen from their muscle

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Speaker 1: stores and it's water weight as opposed to to true

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Speaker 1: fat loss. So you know, sometimes in the weight loss

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Speaker 1: process you have people who lose nothing, nothing and then

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Speaker 1: drop two and that's that cycle of people churning up

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Speaker 1: fat and mobilizing it to burn. But you know, anything

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Speaker 1: over half a kilo a week is pretty solid, particularly

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Speaker 1: if you're under one hundred kilos. What would you say

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Speaker 1: is your sort of reference point in that space, I'd.

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Speaker 2: Say most of my clients are dropping half to a

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Speaker 2: kilo a week. But it's not just based on like

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Speaker 2: weekly like you know lots of people who do kido,

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Speaker 2: because you lose a lot of that water weight and

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Speaker 2: the carb source to start with, you're dropping two, three

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Speaker 2: five kilos in a week, but most of that time

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Speaker 2: that you know, four or five kilos is the first

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Speaker 2: two weeks, and that's like nothing after that. So I

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Speaker 2: always say to my clients, we average the weight loss

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Speaker 2: over time. So if they've lost two kilos in the

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Speaker 2: first week, which the first week or two of a

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Speaker 2: new program tends to be a little bit more because

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Speaker 2: what happens is people go a little bit hard across

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Speaker 2: the weekend. Then they go right, I'm starting, you know,

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Speaker 2: a new program. I'm super motivated. I'm going to eat

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Speaker 2: my pantry clean, go out, have my last drinks, and

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Speaker 2: then start the new program. So typically that first weight

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Speaker 2: is a little bit higher. Most people will drop a

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Speaker 2: little bit more in the first week or two. Typically,

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Speaker 2: you know that one to two kilos. If you're doing

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Speaker 2: a more restrictive diet, you're cutting carbs, you're doing some

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Speaker 2: sort of fast or cleanse or really low calorie you're

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Speaker 2: probably looking at three to five kilos depending on your

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Speaker 2: initial weight. But to me, it's really what's happening around

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Speaker 2: weeks three, four, five, six, seven, eight plus. So if

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Speaker 2: my clients are down, say two kilos in the first week,

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Speaker 2: half a kilo the next week, three undreg grams the

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Speaker 2: next week, and half a killer the next week, And say,

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Speaker 2: for example, it's I don't know, four kilos over four weeks.

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Speaker 2: I'm really happy with that, and I like an average.

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Speaker 2: But if it's two kilos in the first week and

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Speaker 2: then nothing, and then nothing and then nothing, and it's

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Speaker 2: two kilos over five weeks, I'd sort of say, Okay,

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Speaker 2: that's great, but we need to look at the trend

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Speaker 2: over time. And I think that's what a lot of

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Speaker 2: people don't do. They don't look at the trend over time.

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Speaker 2: They just go, well, I lost three kilos in the

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Speaker 2: first week, I want to lose another three the next week,

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Speaker 2: and it's just not realistic. The body doesn't work like that.

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Speaker 2: So you've got to understand that the bigger drops happen

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Speaker 2: in the first one to two weeks and that it'll

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Speaker 2: sort of stabilize off a little bit. But you should

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Speaker 2: still get consistent drops every two weeks at least, and

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Speaker 2: if you're not, you need to change up your program

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Speaker 2: or you need to kind of reassess your requirements.

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Speaker 1: And if you're doing it right, and sometimes you'll notice

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Speaker 1: a change in waste measurement as opposed to weight loss.

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Speaker 1: And what I would say is that if you think

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Speaker 1: of the body as a machine, and if you've had

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Speaker 1: weight that's been there for five, ten, twenty years, it's

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Speaker 1: basically been there a really long time and the body

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Speaker 1: has to mobilize it to bird and hence, at times

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Speaker 1: you might have changes in body composition where you're losing size,

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Speaker 1: but you haven't yet seen the shift on the weight.

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Speaker 1: As the muscle mass and fat mass weights are just

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Speaker 1: based on water and fluid content. It also it will

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Speaker 1: also to a certain extent, help you out understand why

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Speaker 1: you've had a salty meal. The weight might be up

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Speaker 1: on or tequilos. It's purely fluid, so it really is

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Speaker 1: a factory the body, and it's about change in size

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Speaker 1: and also change in weight, and that's when it comes

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Speaker 1: down to looking at things like muscle mass, which weighs

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Speaker 1: more than fat mass. But let's have a look at

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Speaker 1: the research around it, because it's actually really interesting because

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Speaker 1: a couple of years ago there was a few papers

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Speaker 1: that showed that if people lost weight relatively quickly so

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Speaker 1: more earlier, they were more likely to keep it off.

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Speaker 1: But certainly in more recent study and summary studies, it

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Speaker 1: basically means that most people regain, so we should spend

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Speaker 1: a lot more time on preventing weight regain rather than

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Speaker 1: worrying about whether it's quick or fast. So one study,

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Speaker 1: for example, of one hundred postmenopaulse of women so found

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Speaker 1: that the quicker weight losses, so sort of over a

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Speaker 1: kilo a week, were better initial outcomes than the group

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Speaker 1: who are encouraged to lose slow and steady at half

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Speaker 1: to one killo a week. But over the period of

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Speaker 1: time following up in those studies they both regain the

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Speaker 1: exact same amount. So it's actually more probably your preference,

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Speaker 1: but I think for me lean it's more if you're

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Speaker 1: less than one hundred kilos, it's going to be really

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Speaker 1: difficult to continue over a kilo a week. I know

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Speaker 1: you feel like it's a lot, but to push it

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Speaker 1: over a kilo a week, it's just probably unlikely. I'd

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Speaker 1: be going with I sort of frame it two to

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Speaker 1: three kilos a month for clients as opposed to per

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Speaker 1: week because of that time it takes and the adjustments

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Speaker 1: in fluid levels over the course of a week. But

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Speaker 1: basically that the studies show that but both usually regain

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Speaker 1: their weight. It doesn't matter whether it's fast or slow.

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Speaker 1: So my take home message from this discussion is it's

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Speaker 1: about consistency as we described, and allocating enough time. If

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Speaker 1: you've got to lose twenty kilos, you need six months.

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Speaker 1: If you've got to lose thirty or more, you need

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Speaker 1: a year. But a lot more time has to be

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Speaker 1: spent in preventing weight regain because I'll have clients who

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Speaker 1: will end a program and are reluctant to commit to

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Speaker 1: a maintenance program, and then inevitably the next year they'll

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Speaker 1: regain at least some So you want to be spending

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Speaker 1: just as much time on preventing weight regain as the

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Speaker 1: attention you give to getting it off at the time

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Speaker 1: of weight.

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Speaker 2: Loss, if not more, because it's actually quite easy to

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Speaker 2: lose weight, like I rarely talk to a client who goes,

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Speaker 2: I can't lose weight, like most people can lose weight.

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Speaker 2: It's actually keeping it off and maintaining it that's a

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Speaker 2: difficult part, right, So I would say even more time

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Speaker 2: should be spent looking at your behaviors long term and

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Speaker 2: looking to maintain it than actually trying to sort of

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Speaker 2: get it off, because I think a lot of people

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Speaker 2: can easily drop two, three, five kilos, but it's then

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Speaker 2: maintaining that and even if you do it in a

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Speaker 2: bit of a push where if the goal is fifteen,

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Speaker 2: just lose five and then learn to maintain that for

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Speaker 2: six months and then push for another five, because I

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Speaker 2: think the more you lose, the more the body adapts,

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Speaker 2: and the quicker you can tend to rebound back. But

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Speaker 2: I think that study was really interesting because they followed

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Speaker 2: these people for nearly three years and I think it

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Speaker 2: was something like eighty one percent had reput on the

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Speaker 2: weight across that three years. And it didn't matter if

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Speaker 2: sorry it's seventy six percent, It didn't matter if they

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Speaker 2: had lost it fast or slow, like you said. So

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Speaker 2: I really like the conclusion of this article, Susi, that says,

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Speaker 2: the bottom line is that it doesn't really matter how

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Speaker 2: quick or slow you lose it. It matters whether or

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Speaker 2: not you can keep it off because the body imposes

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Speaker 2: a lot of you know, physiological changes in terms of

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Speaker 2: our hunger, in terms of our muscle mass, in terms

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Speaker 2: of our metabolism. So this article is really saying, when

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Speaker 2: you look at the bulk of the research, successful long

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Speaker 2: term weight loss comes down to three things. The first

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Speaker 2: one is following an evidence based program based on what

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Speaker 2: we know about the science of obesity, our bodies, and

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Speaker 2: our metabolism. Most people selling weight loss programs are not

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Speaker 2: evidence based programs, and they're not based on science, and

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Speaker 2: they're not based without your professionals either. The second one

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Speaker 2: was losing weight under a supervised and qualified healthcare professional,

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Speaker 2: such as a dietitian who specializes in fat loss. And

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Speaker 2: I think it's a really important point. A lot of

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Speaker 2: dietitians don't specialize in fat loss, Susie. You and I do.

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Speaker 2: We've been doing it for many, many years. We've seen

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Speaker 2: thousands of clients, but your run of the meal dietitian

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Speaker 2: who just works out of a general GP clinic specializes

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Speaker 2: in healthy eating, they don't actually specialize in fat loss,

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Speaker 2: and they're two very different things. So I think finding

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Speaker 2: a practitioner who is qualified and specialized in fat loss

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Speaker 2: is really important. And the third most important point was

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Speaker 2: making gradual changes to your lifestyle over time, not just

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Speaker 2: your nutrition. So thinking about your diet, your habits, you'll exercise,

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Speaker 2: you'll sleep, so actually looking at joining your program that

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Speaker 2: is very holistic in that way, and looks at the

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Speaker 2: entire body, not just what you put in your mouth.

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Speaker 2: Because we know that Susie, you and I both work

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Speaker 2: with the behaviors in the psychology behind eating. We know

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Speaker 2: that our behaviors matter. We know our emotions matter, we

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Speaker 2: know our hormones matter. We know our sleep, our stress,

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Speaker 2: our cortisol, all those things are going to impact your

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Speaker 2: journey long term as well. So I thought it was

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Speaker 2: a great article. I thought it was very very interesting,

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Speaker 2: and I thought the three big takeaway messages were really

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Speaker 2: key because I think a lot of people get so

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Speaker 2: hung up on what you know, diet they're going to do,

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Speaker 2: or how much they're going to lose, but they don't

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Speaker 2: really ever consider how they're going to keep it off

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Speaker 2: long term.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. So that's a good take home

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Speaker 1: message for it's listening who has lost ten twenty kilos

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Speaker 1: and work really hard at it. It's not a matter

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Speaker 1: of if I'm done your best to at least start

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Speaker 1: a maintenance program where you're touching base with your dietitian

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Speaker 1: or health protectioner each month. That's why I encourage my

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Speaker 1: clients to do it and gradually weighing off like anything.

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Speaker 1: But our environment is so conducive to weight regain, and

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Speaker 1: it's so much easier to eat than it is to

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Speaker 1: keep in a deficit or to maintain exercise levels in

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Speaker 1: this current intense life we have, so committing just as much.

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Speaker 1: Sure a maintenance program is equally as important as the

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Speaker 1: initial weight loss phase. Percent.

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Speaker 2: Now moving on to our product of the week, SUSI,

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Speaker 2: we thought we'd have a little chat about Kto because

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Speaker 2: the amount of Keto products out there is just ridiculous,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of them are just marketed at in

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Speaker 2: just the most ridiculous way. And it's a brand that

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Speaker 2: we saw today that we know when we love. It's

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Speaker 2: Mavers and both of us like you sent this to me,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, I'm so annoyed that they're promoting

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Speaker 2: this as a Kido product. So it's a low carb

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Speaker 2: protein qetot seven nuts and seed spread. It's two twenty grams,

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Speaker 2: so the jar is really small. It's like half the

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Speaker 2: size of an avagar peanut butter in my opinion, And

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Speaker 2: it retails for eight dollars fifty at Waas. So I'm

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Speaker 2: just like that's more than double that I would feel

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Speaker 2: happy paying for peanut butter. Peanut butter is typically low

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Speaker 2: carb anyway, Like I mean, especially if you're getting a

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Speaker 2: natural type of peanut butter, right, if you're getting the

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Speaker 2: standard craft stuff that got the extra salt, the extra sugar.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps not like because there is added sugars in there,

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Speaker 2: but I'm not buying peanut butter for kito, Like that's

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Speaker 2: the last thing I'd look for when I look for

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Speaker 2: peanut butter. It's like a low carb peanut butter, and

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Speaker 2: I just think, just like the price, it's just ridiculous,

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Speaker 2: and this marketing has just gone absolutely over the top.

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Speaker 2: I just think, and it's like one neck gram of

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Speaker 2: carbs in this little jar, and I just think a

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Speaker 2: peanut butter is a peanut butter. Just let it be.

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Speaker 2: To me, it's just over the top. It's ridiculous. I'm

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Speaker 2: annoy that they're even marketing is Keto anyway, because it

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Speaker 2: just confuses a crap out of people, and it's incredibly

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Speaker 2: expensive for what it is. What are your thoughts on it?

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Speaker 1: I can't believe this is happening. So I consulted to

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Speaker 1: MAVI for several years, and on the whole, we're a

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Speaker 1: big fan of a fantastic extrained company and their best

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Speaker 1: nut spreads. When you look at the ingredient lists, they're

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Speaker 1: just pure seeds and nuts, very little added no added sugar.

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Speaker 1: They're a great product nutritionally. So when I saw this

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Speaker 1: come out, I was like, really, it just is hopping

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Speaker 1: on such a bandwagon, because we saw a lot of

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Speaker 1: Keto type wraps, and the issue I have with that

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Speaker 1: is that a food isn't Keto in isolation. A dietary

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Speaker 1: pattern is Keto. So if you just eat one Keto food,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't offer any real benefit. And so in the

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Speaker 1: case of Keto wraps, now I don't generally want to

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Speaker 1: low carbrap. I want a whole grain wrap that's got

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Speaker 1: dietary fiber, so they're heavily processed, and I just don't

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Speaker 1: see a huge space in the market for them, because

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Speaker 1: unless you're someone on a very strict Keto diet, when

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Speaker 1: let's be honest, you're probably not eating raps anyway. So

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Speaker 1: I was never a fan of them, the wraps, and

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Speaker 1: it's not by chance that that brand has gone over

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Speaker 1: and is doing work in a similar area to Mavers.

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Speaker 1: And suddenly we saw Keto peanut butter, which I think

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Speaker 1: the issue for me is so misleading because peanut butter

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Speaker 1: is already high fat, low carb. It's not a special

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Speaker 1: formulation to make it Keto. It's just jumping on a

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Speaker 1: bandwagon of diets. And I think what we know is

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Speaker 1: that Keto diets are so difficult to follow. Most people

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Speaker 1: don't do that, they're just doing low carb. And most

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Speaker 1: clients we see don't need Keto all low carb. They

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Speaker 1: need a reduced carb, balanced eating plan. So I think

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Speaker 1: it's so misleading and I'm so disappointed to see it.

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Speaker 1: And basically we wanted to just talk about don't be

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Speaker 1: sucked in by food labeled Keto. They're not better. In

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Speaker 1: many cases, like the wraps, they're actually worse because they're

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Speaker 1: heavily processed, and in a food like a rap, we

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Speaker 1: actually want the whole grain carbs and the Keto peanut butter.

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Speaker 1: Normal peanut butter, you would argue, is technically keto. It's

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Speaker 1: low carb and high fat. But you won't remain in

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Speaker 1: Keto if your calories are too high anyway, so please,

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Speaker 1: you know, if it sounds too good, to be sure,

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Speaker 1: it always is. And Keto is just really jumping on

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Speaker 1: a diet bandwagon, which is certainly not what Mayvers as

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Speaker 1: a brand had previously done. It was about being wholesome,

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Speaker 1: it was out about being unprocessed, it was about being

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Speaker 1: Australian food, not being marketed as a diet product. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's really disappointing and certainly I don't want my clients

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Speaker 1: paying eight dollars fifty for a Keto peanut butter because

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Speaker 1: you know, normal peanut butter is Keto technically. And the

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Speaker 1: key with peanut butter is to go with an Australian

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Speaker 1: brand that's one hundred percent nuts and use it sparingly.

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Speaker 1: It's really high calorie. It's good for you, but a

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Speaker 1: tablespoon or two is too much. It's a teaspoon or

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Speaker 1: two is a serve. So like Homas, if you're going

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Speaker 1: heavy on the peanut butter, it's time to rein it

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Speaker 1: in for a point.

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Speaker 2: And then the last article that we wanted to chat

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Speaker 2: through this week's is it was a very entertaining one

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Speaker 2: for us and it's all about chocolate. So it's in

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Speaker 2: the news. There was this big article and it was

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Speaker 2: like the world's best chocolate has hit Australia and I

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Speaker 2: sent you that and I was like, that's a big claim.

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Speaker 2: So nine News published something that said that Tony's Colony

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Speaker 2: bars are now available in woolwors and Coals. They've been

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Speaker 2: dubbed the world's best chocolate on social media and apparently

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Speaker 2: there's a mad, insane rush. So I went to go

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Speaker 2: find them. I couldn't find them. Maybe they're sold out already.

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Speaker 2: So these Tony Chocoloni bars come from the Netherlands, and

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Speaker 2: I mean it's a big claim. So they're about eight

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Speaker 2: dollars I think they retail for the block of chocolate,

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Speaker 2: so they're not inexpensive. But people are just going nuts

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Speaker 2: on TikTok and saying, oh my goodness, these are the best.

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Speaker 2: And I will say that I certainly ask my clients

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Speaker 2: what their soul foods are so we incorporate them into

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Speaker 2: their nutrition plants each week because I want it to

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Speaker 2: be enjoyable and sustainable. And in the last couple of months,

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Speaker 2: I've seen a lot more of this brand of chocolate.

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Speaker 2: Typically I see Linds, I see Cabria, I see you know,

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Speaker 2: cherry rips and twigs or whatever coming up like standard

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Speaker 2: Australian based chocolate. But I've seen a few more clients,

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Speaker 2: both Australian and international, posting this brand, so I'm keen

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Speaker 2: to give it a whirl. I must say I haven't

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Speaker 2: tried it yet, but I'm very intrigued. Have you tried it, Susie?

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Speaker 1: I have. It's very creamy, you know, And I think

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Speaker 1: it's really personal with taste profiles and chocol because I've

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Speaker 1: got clients who can't get enough of their ninety percent lint,

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Speaker 1: and then I've got clients who'll only have you know,

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Speaker 1: what's that one? The white chocolate Kara Milk, which actually

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Speaker 1: checks me as a chocolate because it's not got a

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Speaker 1: cocoa based I think it's white chocolate, so I think

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Speaker 1: it's really personal. I notice it's creamy. It reminds me

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Speaker 1: a little bit like Lint. It's delicious, like all chocolate,

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Speaker 1: I think we get programmed for certain taste profiles. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you have Cabria chocolate from the UK, it's different

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Speaker 1: to Cabri chocolate in the States, which is different to

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Speaker 1: Cabria chcolate here. It's really depends on the programming. What

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Speaker 1: I will say is that the sweet of the chocolate,

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Speaker 1: the more likely you are to want more of it.

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Speaker 1: So when you have a creamy, milk based chocolate, whether

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Speaker 1: it's Cabri or Lint or this one, it's easier to

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Speaker 1: overreat it because of the sweetness. Whereas when you're going

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Speaker 1: for a more bitter chocolate with a higher cocoa proportion,

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Speaker 1: it's not going to give you that intense sweetness that

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Speaker 1: drives craving, so it's probably easier to regulate portions. The

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Speaker 1: other issue with this chocolate is it's huge blocks, so

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Speaker 1: once you open a block, in my experience, most people

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Speaker 1: have difficulty stopping eating it. So I don't love the

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Speaker 1: portion control, but I think it's in the terms of chocolate,

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Speaker 1: it's a soul food, as you describe, have the one

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Speaker 1: you like in control portions. But if you know that

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Speaker 1: you're going to buy a block and you're gonna eat it,

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Speaker 1: probably not the best choice. So what your level of

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Speaker 1: self regulation is for me would drive which is your

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Speaker 1: brand choice of chocolate?

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Speaker 2: So let us know on Instagram if you have tried

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Speaker 2: this one, because we'd be keen to hear your thoughts.

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Speaker 2: And I mean it's a big statement, Susie, world's best chocolate,

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Speaker 2: is it? Or do you know a better one? I

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Speaker 2: just know on Instagram and there's nothing wrong.

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Speaker 1: But a serve of chocolate is like twenty grams, so

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Speaker 1: it's like four little squares or one fretto, you know,

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Speaker 1: So just you know, it's always about the portions and

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Speaker 1: looking for ways to get more pleasure. Like I'm a

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Speaker 1: big fan of a single limp ball because I think

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Speaker 1: it's an enjoyable amount of chocolate, makes you feel like

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Speaker 1: you've had a good serve, and it's easier to control

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Speaker 1: the portion as opposed to blocks, which I'm always cautious of.

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Speaker 1: All right, man, Well, that brings us to the end

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Speaker 1: of the nuitition Couch for Another Sunday. If you haven't

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Speaker 1: done so already, please subscribe and keep telling your friends

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Speaker 1: about us. We have our Pery nearly reallys Perry Plan

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Speaker 1: God on our website and we're just about to put

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Speaker 1: the finishing touches on our brand new Snack Guide, so

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Speaker 1: we know you're a big fan of the Supermarket Guide

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Speaker 1: that we had. We went through all supermarket products and

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Speaker 1: we're very busy putting together a booklet which is all

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Speaker 1: just about snacks, so you're gonna love that one too,

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Speaker 1: And we will see you on Wednesday for our MIDWEK

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Speaker 1: motivational episode. Have a great week, you guys. Next week