WEBVTT - Courtney Act - MASKED SINGER - TV Personality 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:01.760 It's in the news today, but it was actually on 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:04.840 TV Reload the podcast last week thatyline. Welcome back Eyes 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:07.480 to TV Reload. As you may know, my name is 0:00:07.480 --> 0:00:10.240 Benjamin Norris and this is your podcast to get all 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:13.080 the inside goss on the popular TV shows that you 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:16.480 might be watching from around the world. Underniably, our TV 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.159 sets are a major part of our home entertainment, and 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:21.960 yet very little is known about how our favorite shows 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:24.600 get made. So each episode I've been finding the guests 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:26.720 that want to dive just that little bit deeper into 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:29.280 the shows that they're currently making, so that you can 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:32.440 hear all their exclusive stories and gain access to the 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:35.159 biggest names in Australian television. I want to thank you 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:39.040 for downloading or subscribing to this podcast however you found me. 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:41.959 I really do love hearing your feedback, so make sure 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:44.320 you leave a review or a comment on your chosen 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:48.400 podcast platform. On today's podcast, I have Courtney Act who 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:51.440 has just had their mask revealed on the Mass Singer. 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:55.120 If you missed any of Courtney's performances as Cowgirl, you 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:58.160 can go back and check them out on tenplay. I 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:01.720 loved the full circle moment of Courtney singing what About Me, 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:04.640 which became a huge hit for Shannonol the year that 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:07.920 they both starred on Australian Idol. That one definitely was 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:10.679 one of my favorites. Shane Jenik, better known for his 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:13.959 stage name Courtney Act, is an Australian drag queen's singer 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:18.120 and television personality. Courtney first came to prominence competing on 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:21.240 the very first season of Australian Idol in two thousand 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.000 and three. After that show, she went on to sign 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:26.959 at BMG Australia which is now known as Sony Music, 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:30.600 and released that iconic single rub Me Wrong, which made 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:34.440 a decent splash on the ARIA charts. There is obviously 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:37.360 so much to Courtney's story, from RuPaul's drag race to 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:40.640 winning Big Brother UK, those dance moves, on Dancing with 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:44.920 the Stars, the LGBTI advocacy in this country and around 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:47.680 the world. There's just so much to unpack, and somehow 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:52.200 Courtney touches on everything effortlessly without ever really sounding like 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:56.040 that they're big noting themselves. I personally am a huge 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:59.240 fan and a friend and this chat was everything I 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:02.160 would expect from Shane and also so much more. I 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.520 will ask if there were big discussions behind the scenes 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:07.480 regarding the reveal and if there was much consideration into 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:11.160 revealing Courtney or Shane. We will discuss that play school 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:14.680 debarcle and how dressing up as a cow is somehow 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.080 more acceptable than a man dressing as a woman. You 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:20.720 will find out which of the three judges had met 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:24.000 Courtney before and if politics is something that Shane would 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:27.000 ever truly be interested in. Plus, we will get plenty 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:29.480 of exclusives from behind the scenes of The Mass Singer, 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.560 which returns for its season finale on Monday night on 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:35.160 Network ten. And if you've fallen just that little bit behind, 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:38.600 you can catch up on ten. Play anyway, guys, let's 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:41.359 bring Shane slash Courtney act into the podcast, and I 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:44.720 really do hope you enjoy this very insightful episode of 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:45.440 TV reload. 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:46.400 Wow. 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.240 Then I just wanted to say that I was in 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:51.240 the process of doing my hair and as soon as 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:53.679 Peter said, can you do nine thirty, I've just come 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.400 in enter the room, so I hadn't finished my face, 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:57.959 and I look like I've been electrocuted. 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:01.240 I think that's all in your head. You look. I 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:03.679 even went I even went like this to check. 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:05.960 Just to make sure. Yeah, and I hadn't even framed 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:08.079 the camera, so I'm a lot closer than I normally 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:09.800 would be. But anyway, how are you. 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:12.320 I'm good, I'm very good. Actually, I don't know what 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:13.200 hour is it there? 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:14.959 Nine n I'm thirty in the morning. 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:17.400 I got up at four thirty. I'm in Hong Kong. 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:18.880 What are you doing in Hong Kong? Can you tell 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:20.079 us or is it a secret project? 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:23.920 Yeah, I'm on Celebrity sas Hong Kong. No, I am 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:27.840 performing at the Gay Games opening gala concert on Sunday. 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:29.480 I don't have to explain what the Gay Games are 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:29.720 to you. 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:32.800 I assume no you don't. It's fine. I completely understand, 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:34.639 and I should have actually known that's why you were there. 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:37.000 But you know, for the people playing at home, the. 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:42.240 Gay Games is an opportunity for queer people to heal 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:46.400 their high school pe wounds with sports. Obviously the women 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.480 did a much better job than the queer men. But yeah, 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:53.320 it's like I literally have only just realized, like I'm 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:54.960 not even I don't think I'm even you know what 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:57.280 it was? It was when Marti Gras was in the 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:00.360 Sydney cricket ground Zoe Koombsmar and I was standing there 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:03.560 in like a rehearsal, the King rehearsal hosting the Mardi Gras. 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.240 But and she turned to me and she she we 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:08.080 were looking at all the seats and she was like, 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:13.120 all of this is for sport, and it dawned on me. So, like, 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:16.920 sixty thousand people fill that stadium several times a week 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:21.240 to watch sport, and I had never crossed my mind 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:24.760 how popular sport is that like most of the country 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:29.279 loves watching sport regularly. And I don't know, I know 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:30.800 I sound dumb for saying that, but it just sort 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:33.360 of dawned on me. And I think because historically queer 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:36.640 people are so like, oh, sport, I should probably say 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:39.800 like gay men are like, huh sport, because obviously the 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:42.800 Matilda's a bunch of wonderful women and a lot of 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:46.680 them queer and out and other female sporting arenas. But yeah, 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:49.480 I think that that those high school traumas of sport 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:51.560 really stay with us, and so the Gay Games is 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.279 a great opportunity to like go like, hey, there's actually 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.040 something really fun about playing sport. I'm not playing sport, 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:00.400 I'm performing but I did notice that marjong is sport 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:01.960 in the Hong Kong Ga Games, which is about the 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:04.719 only sport that I think I would be capable of 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:07.000 not injuring myself. I would come last still, but at 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:08.279 least I wouldn't break a limb. 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:09.680 Do you know what I always think of when I 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:12.159 think of LGBT I in sport. And I don't know 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:14.239 whether or not you remember this. We're the same age, 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:17.040 so you may. But do you remember Gina Riley and 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:21.160 Jane Turner on Big Girls Blouse doing the hotel check 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:22.599 in at the Olympic Gates Sport? 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:29.640 Hello, we would like a room please? Okay? So that's 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:31.160 one bedroom with two beds? No? 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:33.880 No, just one bed okay, one bed in a trundle. 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:35.560 No, oh okay. 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:38.279 I always wonder, you know, I always wondered because so 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:40.760 much of your humor is so accessible to me. I 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.400 always have wondered whether you've watched all of those same shows, 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:48.240 like being born in Australia and watching Big Girls Blouse, 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.480 Fast Forward, the comedy company that's in my DNA, and 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:53.560 I don't know, did you grow up on all that? 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.880 Absolutely, and that's one of the most refreshing things about 0:05:56.960 --> 0:05:59.520 coming home to Australia. Is that like all of that, 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.240 whether you whether you say if you go with that 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.080 Mari from Marjong, I will go you with the night 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:08.920 like any even when I said mar Jong before, I'm 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:11.760 sure that a little part of your DNA thought about that. 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:14.799 And so there's just all of this like added texture 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.720 when you're talking to people in this stream, particularly like 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:21.520 you know of our Vintine because you just even that 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:25.160 was probably a bit our of vind Like it's not specific, 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:29.040 but it's just like that comedy sensibility that we got 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:32.000 from Maker and Gina and Jane and the whole. 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:35.279 I can't you know, do it. It's so funny as well, 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:37.600 like you're in our DNA now as well. And I 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:39.520 didn't quickly do the research on this, but I feel 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:41.880 like you've pet on television for nearly two decades. Am 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:42.440 I right by. 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:45.040 Saying man Idol was twenty years ago? 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:48.960 Yeah, it's just crazy. And I can't work at if 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:52.279 Courtney Act is in my DNA or I just or 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:54.960 it was too easy. But as soon as you performed 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:58.160 as cowgirl, like I just was like, that's that's Courtney Act. 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:01.200 That's that's shame, Like I it just and then every 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:05.799 performance that you did was amazing. But I could actually 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.520 see Courtney Act singing do you know what I mean? 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:09.920 Like through the through the. 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:13.640 Cow and did that make it? Because in the comment 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:15.680 section there's like, because I don't know how many types 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:17.680 of people are out, but there's the type of person 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:21.520 who's like, that's Courtney Act and like like somehow like 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:23.960 the game's over. But then there's like, like you said, 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:26.080 you're like, oh, that's obviously Courtney And then you watched 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:30.920 me performing as Cowgirl each episode, doing the numbers and 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:34.080 I guess like almost transposing what you know of me 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:37.880 through the cow and I feel like then you feel 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:40.280 like you're in on it and you're enjoying it. 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.080 You're a super fan and that's the joy of it. 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:45.000 For those people out there that thought you were all 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.240 those other people, fair play to them, and that's probably 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:49.920 what they truly thought. But for me, I could see 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:52.960 like even some of the movements being like Disgraceland back 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:55.720 in Melbourne and performances. 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:57.680 Well, you know what was funny is like I have 0:07:57.960 --> 0:07:58.600 got some like. 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:05.120 Super fan Instagram accounts and there was this strange unspoken 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:09.960 acceptance like the Courtney Act Archives and Courtney Files, like 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.120 with my name in the title, and none of them 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:15.080 were like, we know it's Courtney Act. They just were like, oh, 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:18.160 we love Cowgirl. Isn't this a great performance by Cowgirl? 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:21.480 And they all kind of went along with the charade 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:24.280 of it all, which was really adorable to see that 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:27.680 that's how they chose and like, you know, they would 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:29.600 message and be like, obviously you can't say anything, but 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:31.480 we think he's doing really good job on the mast Singer. 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:33.199 I was like, I'm not even going to write to 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:35.240 you on Instagram or Twitter or any of those messages. 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:38.400 I'm just going to enjoy the minutia of you being 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:40.760 on this show because I'd sort of thought about it 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.280 for so long, thinking you'd be such a great contestant 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:45.920 on this show that while I was getting it, I 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:48.000 just was like, I'm just going to enjoy my slice 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:49.640 of cake instead of eating it too, do you know 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:50.080 what I mean? 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:52.560 Yeah, you just go along with the charade of it 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:54.320 all and have fun. And that's what the masting is. 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:57.480 If you had to explain the Mastinger to someone, imagine 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:01.960 that boardroom meeting must have happened. I mean, I'm in 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:02.840 Hong Kong, right. 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:04.840 Now, which is where it originated from. 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:08.320 It must have been in Asia somewhere. It definitely feels 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:11.920 like that. And I can't imagine in like a Western 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:15.400 boardroom a person coming in to pitch the mask singer 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:18.480 without a precedent, because they just be like, what the 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:21.120 PU talking about? Get out of this room. But they 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:23.560 when you can show people what the mask singer is, 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:25.880 it's a definite show them, don't tell them kind of show. 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:28.400 And they sit down and they watch it, and you're 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.080 not even suspending disbelief. I don't know what you're doing. 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.520 You're just enjoying. You're just letting go and you're just 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.040 having fun, and you're just watching this very silly show. 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.320 I love the idea of you being on this show though, 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.400 because I think of you as being able to wear 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:47.320 masks and blur gender diversity, and the idea of you 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:50.640 being cowgirl even though the girl is there. I felt 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:53.520 like these shows where you can put on a mask 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:57.320 and just sing without being judged by how you look, 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:00.400 just it's fascinating to me. I think this something in 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:02.680 that I probably haven't articulated it properly, but you know 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:03.200 where I'm going. 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:05.439 I know what you mean. And it's that thing of like, 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:09.840 it's that thing of people putting aside your identity and 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:13.560 their preconceptions maybe about queer people, about a drag performer 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:18.120 and being entertained by them in some form, like you're 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:24.880 inside this giant anthropomorphic anthropomorphic and take it and promorphic suit, 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:29.960 a humanized animal, and they're just being entertained and enjoying 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:31.600 the whole thing. And then you take your head off 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:33.920 and they're like, oh my god, it's a drag queen. 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:36.800 What did we think about this person before we knew? 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:40.760 Does that does that shift our opinions or ideas about 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.920 what we think about queer people or and especially like 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:47.080 when the idea of you know, like cowgirl reading a 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:51.080 storybook to kids, people probably wouldn't think twice about. It's 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:54.559 like Disneyland, it's a character costume. It's like we're so 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.600 familiar with like people dressed up as giant cows or 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:02.480 ducks or mice entertaining children. But the idea of the 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:05.559 person inside that suit, who we know nothing about, you know, 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:08.120 who those people are inside those suits. But the idea 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:11.200 of like me dressed up as Courtney, dressed up in 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:15.599 drag reading a storybook to kids, is this, like you, 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:20.280 sort of strangely shocking proposition in the world right now? 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:23.640 I will qualify that by saying strangely shocking proposition for 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:27.000 about five people who are all, you know, gunning to 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:30.719 get political points for their extreme right views by inciting 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:33.640 fear in people where no fear needs to exist. But 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:35.880 yet So it was kind of fun doing Cowgirl and 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.360 being on tele being in this big, crazy costume and 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:41.320 entertaining people without them no identity. 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:44.760 I feel like, without you knowing this, you are able 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:48.319 to explain things like that to straight people or to 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.160 people who may have fear of queer in a really 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.680 simple way that's so digestible that I feel like you've 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:57.199 opened and unlocked a lot of doors because just simply 0:11:57.280 --> 0:11:59.680 saying what happened on play school and all of those 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:03.080 common you know, because it's just you, a man addressed 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:04.920 as a woman is frightening to them. But as soon 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:06.520 as you explain to them, but I can be dressed 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:08.000 as a cow and you don't have a problem. And 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:09.640 your children an't going to grow up thinking that they're 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:11.559 going to be cows, you know what I mean? Yeah, 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:13.840 And all of a sudden, this language, this conversation is 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:16.720 so accessible to people it's disarming. 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.480 It's just that there's like this level of critical thinking 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:22.959 that we seem to have lost across the discourse in general, 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:25.720 which I think is one of the problems, you know, 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:30.640 like the referendum recently right therese these We're not used 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:34.679 to people in the in the politics, in politics and 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.080 the media being willfully dishonest. We're used to them being 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:40.560 a little bit dishonest. We're used to politicians flying a 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:42.880 little bit, and we used to the media sort of 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.360 giving a spin. But we've entered this sort of Trumpian 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:50.480 era of politics and media now where people are being 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:54.720 told things by the same institutions and people they've trusted 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:57.040 for so long, but now that actually there's been a 0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:00.080 ship where that information is no longer trustworthy. But they 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.920 don't know that because they're not invested. They're just trying 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:04.760 to get through life and get their Starbucks order right. 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:07.520 They're not really out there on the front line trying 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.360 to understand the nuancewers of the conversation about gender or 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:13.000 queer identity, about First nation's identity. They're just taking the 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:14.800 information as it's given to them because they're busy and 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.440 They're making decision based on what they hear, and there's 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:21.120 not really that ability to just pause for a second, 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:24.720 step back and think does this make sense? Because usually 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:26.640 when you do that, you're like, hang on, this doesn't 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.960 make sense. You know, the theomonga and then the negative 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:33.560 hype surrounding stuff. And I've been thinking in the wake 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:38.720 of the referendum, like, why won't this keep happening to 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:41.920 us in other areas of politics as we go forward, 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:43.640 and how can we stop it from happening? And I 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:46.800 think a lot of it is about educating people in 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:51.760 like it's critical thinking, right. But then I've been researching 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:54.240 this project about masculinity. I've been listening to all these 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:58.080 men's podcasts, which I do not recommend. It's a horrible 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:00.320 and weird world out there on all these podcasts, and 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.760 all of these guys like the Andrew Taps of the world. 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:05.960 Actually it was Andrew Tate. He was like, you know, 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.160 I've done the critical I can't do his accent. I've 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:10.280 done the critical thinking. And I'm like, that is not 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.440 critical thinking. You've done the opposite of critical thinking. You've 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:16.600 done confirmation bias. You've found these things that agree with 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:19.560 your worldview, and now you're telling yourself that you've done 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:21.400 critical thinking. And I think that's a problem with the 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:25.560 simple ideas like confirmation bias. Looking for things in your 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.040 experience that agree with what you already believe to be 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:32.080 true to validate what you think or is not critical thinking. 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:36.720 And so yeah, the thing about like Disneyland characters, like 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.120 someone dressed as a dinosaur as a cow or a horse, 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:42.680 like it should be much more weird to think about 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:45.360 somebody dressed up as another species than it is to 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.000 just be dressed up of someone of the same species, 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.960 of the different gender, or expressing their gender differently. 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:53.120 So you've been making us think about all of this 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.760 for so long, Like I will never forget watching you 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.880 perform in Idle, for those first few episodes where you 0:14:59.880 --> 0:15:01.640 can came in a Shane and came in as Courtney. 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.160 Do you know what I thought was really impactful and 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:06.840 really a turning point in your career was Ian Dixon 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:10.080 being on television at a time that authorized you in 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:15.080 a way by supporting you so publicly, allowed you to 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:18.680 go further with that story and allowed Australia to unpack 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:21.160 more about it. I mean, I kind of feel like 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:23.080 you've been doing this for so long, and it's interesting 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:25.560 we talk about politics because I kind of feel like 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:27.000 we're going to be I'm going to be talking to 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:28.240 you in twenty years time and you're going to be 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:30.960 in politics, do you know what I mean? You know, 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.960 because because it's part of who you are, and the 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:38.240 accessibility to explain things to the Australian and global audiences 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:40.880 is so digestible. I feel like it's almost silly that 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.840 if you didn't go into politics at some point. 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:48.360 It's that funny thing where I think, you know obviously 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:50.760 that well I don't know. I mean, Dame Edner went 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:54.400 out in glamorous, I guess to an extent, I do 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.160 wonder like at what point my age will catch up 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:00.560 with Courtney's glamour or how Courtney will have and then 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:03.520 lots of people talk about politics, and I think like 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:05.440 I have a lot more opportunity to do a lot 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:07.760 more good right now just doing what I'm doing, rather 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.520 than getting sucked into a broken system. But I am 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:13.640 fascinated with politics, and I am fascinated with, you know, 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:17.720 how society and the media and everything interacts together, and 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:22.360 just trying in my own small way to you know, contribute. 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.040 Make an impact, kick the time, yeah. 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:27.720 Make it yeah. Like well, I can't quite remember why 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:30.600 or where that began, but it's interesting that you mentioned 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:33.520 Dicko because I think in a weird way, he's in 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:35.640 a weird way, in quite a wonderful way. He was 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:39.640 an ally before we really had that term, and that's 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:43.560 I think an example of allieship that people might be 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:45.000 able to like have contact with. 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:47.720 Where it goes me, I'm in drag might have been 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:49.000 a bit challenging for. 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:52.760 Like straight male Australians to understand, but I think Dicko, 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.920 being a brit had grown up with a different understanding 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:57.560 of drag, like pantomime. 0:16:57.880 --> 0:16:59.640 Well, he grew up in the music business around a 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:02.120 little queer people, and so there was a lot of 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:05.159 there was a lot of queer people in English music, 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:07.199 not you know, obviously there you know, was a lot 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.560 of queer music happening, but behind the scenes there's a 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:11.520 lot of queer people that Dicko was growing up with. 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:13.879 And so when you hear all of that that his 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.360 mates growing up in his industry early on was all 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:19.800 of that, he kind of that sort of marries into 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:23.200 what you're saying to me. You know, yeah, he did, 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.399 and he ordained you in a weird way. It was beauty. 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:27.879 It was amazing television, you know, and you've done so 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:30.320 much since then, but it's just so it's such a 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:31.560 turning point, you know what I mean. 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:34.520 Yeah, and I think it was cool because queer people 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.240 can be as visible as they want, but kind of 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:41.600 in a weird way, queer people need straight society in 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:46.639 order for them to gain acceptance, and that's sort of 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:49.120 the pride parades and all of that is about attracting 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.639 attention and bringing people on board. But it's it's the 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:55.159 straight people. It's obviously the queer people who are on 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:57.040 the front line sort of changing their minds, who are 0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:59.240 in the rooms we're having conversations, So it's you know, 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:02.960 changing police and who are visible that doing it. But 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:06.280 it's like the straight people coming around to accepting that 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:08.359 that sort of brings about the actual change. And I 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:11.760 think Dicko was an ally in that way where he said, oh, 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:14.960 it's okay, I'm a straight bloke. I'm entertained by Courtney. 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:17.960 I'm happy your work with Courtney. My sexuality, my masculinity 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:21.440 isn't threatened by doing so. And you can too, and 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.159 I think that is sort of role modeling a positive 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:27.600 behavior for other people, and I always appreciate him for that. 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:29.639 I always think of it myself as a queer person. 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:32.080 I was like, is he doing that on television? Is 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.440 he ordaining someone on television? And I felt sired, do 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:37.320 you know what I mean? Like I felt maybe it's 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:40.199 possible to be on television where prior to that, you know, 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.520 I was hiding away almost like sport, when people being picked, 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:45.280 I'm like, don't pick me because I don't want the 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:47.680 light on me, don't you know, don't include me because 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:50.560 I can't and I don't belong there. And then that 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:52.919 was a real big change, because I don't necessarily know 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:56.840 if we've ever had anyone who was so willing to 0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:59.080 be themselves on television as much as you have been 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:02.119 through a Big Brother through all of these shows. However, actually, 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.280 just a quick point, someone messaged on one of the 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:08.160 forums last night, you one Big Brother. You came second 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.760 on Dancing with the Stars, You've now you came third 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:15.480 on RuPaul's Drag Race, and you've now come fourth on 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:19.800 The Mask Singer. It was a really interesting fact. I 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:20.680 was like, is it. 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:22.880