1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Now the CEO of a group founded by broadcaster Andrew 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: Denton to advocate and past voluntary assisted dying laws is 3 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: here in the Northern Territory this week. Now it comes 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: to me to a Parliamentary inquiry into voluntary assisted dying, 5 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:18,240 Speaker 1: with the committee aiming to consult with twelve Northern Territory 6 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: communities in August before completing its report in September. Go 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: Gentle Australia's CEO, Linda Swan joins me in the studio 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: right now. Good morning to you, Linda, Come morning. Lovely 9 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: to have you in the studio and I really appreciate 10 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,599 Speaker 1: your time. Now, can you tell us a little bit 11 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: more about Go Gentle for anybody who's not heard. 12 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 2: Of us, So Go Gentle to charity. Our core mission 13 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 2: is to ensure that there are voluntary assistant dying laws 14 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 2: for all Australians in all jurisdictions, and sadly to say, 15 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 2: the Northern Territory is the last jurisdiction. It's it's an 16 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 2: unfortunate circumstance because you were the first, one of the 17 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 2: first in the world and now the last ten. So 18 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: we're here. We're committed to ensuring that we finished the 19 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,479 Speaker 2: job and were sure there are laws in every jurisdiction. 20 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: Now talk us through. Has the group been instrumental in, 21 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: you know, when it comes to what's happened in other 22 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: states and helping to advocate for those who do want 23 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: to see voluntary assists to die. 24 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, we've played an important role in every jurisdiction, but 25 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 2: not alone. I mean, it's been very much a broad 26 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 2: group of stakeholders who've made these laws happen. In places 27 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 2: like the NT, there's been advocacy now for nearly thirty 28 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,759 Speaker 2: years to re establish the terms of the original something 29 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 2: like the terms of the original Radiact which enabled access 30 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 2: to euthanasia in its time here in the NT. So 31 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 2: we're not standing alone here in the Northern Territory. There 32 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 2: are also key stay cooder groups like the AMA or 33 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 2: Representatives of Seniors Group Black Kota. There are other stakeholders 34 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 2: who are here as well who are also committed to 35 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 2: ensuring that choices returned to Northern Tatorians. 36 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: I've spoken quite extensively the Sushira from Kota, and she's 37 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:08,519 Speaker 1: certainly advocated for voluntary assisted dying. Linda, can you talk 38 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: us through, you know, what's the aim of your visits 39 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: to the Northern Territory this time round. 40 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 2: Well, my primary purpose was to talk to some people 41 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 2: on the ground to really hear from the mood of 42 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 2: the people here what they would like. Our role is 43 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 2: to support, not lead. We have a lot of experience 44 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 2: from what's happened in other jurisdictions, but the Northern Territory 45 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: needs to decide what's right for the Northern Territory. What 46 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 2: we can do is provide some insights around what's happened 47 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 2: in other jurisdictions to help people stop reinventing the wheel. 48 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 2: This has actually been debated in every jurisdiction at length, 49 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,239 Speaker 2: so there are ways that the normal territory can look 50 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,119 Speaker 2: and learn and fast track the process. 51 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: Can you talk our listeners through some of what is 52 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: happening in other states and territories, because I think that 53 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: you know, we don't need to reinvent the wheel. Like, 54 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: the fact is that in every state, as I understand it, 55 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: they do have the right to voluntary assisted dying. But 56 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: for us here in the Northern Territory, we're dragging our heels. Now. 57 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: I understand the reason that you know that the politicians 58 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,839 Speaker 1: want to see that further consultation I get it that 59 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: that's the path they're going down, but can you talk 60 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: our listeners through what happens in other states so that 61 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 1: they've got an understanding of exactly the way in which 62 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: it's operating. 63 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think tragically, the awareness that voluntary assist dying 64 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 2: is legal in all states is still not even transparent 65 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,119 Speaker 2: in the states in which it's legal, so it may 66 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 2: not be very obvious here in the Northern Territory Eiland. 67 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 2: Northern Territory is considerably behind. I mean, Victoria has laws 68 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 2: that have been up and running for six years, so 69 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 2: we have got good data now evidence of how assisted 70 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 2: dying works in practice. And what we see is that 71 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: the laws are working as intended. They deliver safe, careful, 72 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 2: compassionate and life choice for me. And that has been 73 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 2: the same in every single jurisdiction where they're stopped and 74 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 2: reviewed how the laws are working. One of the safeguards 75 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 2: that's been put in place in all jurisdictions is that 76 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 2: there has to be regular reporting of how the law 77 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 2: is operating. In fact, every case is looked at. So 78 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 2: what we have here is a health service that has 79 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,679 Speaker 2: more governance than any other health process in Australia. Which 80 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 2: is great from a safety perspective. It's also really good 81 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 2: for stopping and having a look at what's working and 82 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 2: what's not. So what the Northern Territory can do is 83 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 2: it can look at the date from the other states 84 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: and work out, well, what is working really well in 85 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 2: other states, What do we want to copy, what do 86 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 2: we want to change? How can we actually have an 87 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 2: even better law has been designed in other jurisdictions. 88 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: Linda, you know, it's really interesting that when you talk 89 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: about something like this, sometimes what happens is you see 90 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: this sort of fear mongering. You see people going, all, right, 91 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: well am I you know, others maybe not real sure, 92 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: and they're thinking, well, am I if I end up 93 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: with cancer, is my family just going to go down 94 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: this path even if it's not something that I want 95 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: to do. You know, there's so many there's so many, 96 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: I guess frightening situations for some people that they're worried 97 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: might happen. Can you sort of take us through some 98 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 1: of those elements? 99 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 2: So I think we have to look at what's happened historically, 100 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 2: and certainly when the laws were first passed in Victoria, 101 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 2: for instance, there was a really heated debate went on 102 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 2: for an extraordinary length of time and there were lots 103 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 2: of hypotheses proposed about what might happen if you allow 104 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 2: this reform to occur. What we've actually seen in practice 105 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 2: is that none of those catastrophic things that people predicted 106 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 2: have actually turned out to be true. So one of 107 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 2: the concerns is that people would be coerced into ending 108 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 2: their life prematurely because people might be one of accessing 109 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 2: theirs of something. You've got to look at what the law, 110 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 2: who the law is designed for, what are the safeguards 111 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 2: are in place, And essentially, in order to access assisted 112 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 2: dying in any jurisdiction in Australia, you need to be 113 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 2: dying and you need to be suffering, So we're talking 114 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 2: about dying and suffering people who are close to the 115 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 2: end of their life. They also have to be over eighteen, 116 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 2: they have to have full capacity, they have to consent 117 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 2: to the process. They have to make three separate requests 118 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 2: for access to voluntary sister dying. They have to see 119 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 2: at least two independent health professionals to assess with their 120 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 2: eligible There is an enormous number of steps that someone 121 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 2: has to go through in order to qualify. So if 122 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 2: you are dying and suffering and prepared to go through 123 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 2: this long process, it's because it's what you want. And 124 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 2: so we are not seeing cases of coercion. We're not 125 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 2: seeing any evidence of coercion into picking voluntary assisted dying. 126 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 2: In fact, what we see is the opposite. We see 127 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 2: people being werced away. People who don't support voluntarier sister dying, 128 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 2: be they health professionals or friends, might say oh no, no, 129 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 2: don't that's not for you. No, no, no, you shouldn't 130 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 2: do that. That's not right, that's not proper, And it's 131 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 2: not about them. It's about the individual who's dying and 132 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 2: suffering and what do they want. 133 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: Well, it's the one final choice totally. And anybody that's 134 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: seen a loved one battle through terminal illness, battle through 135 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: and are dying and are suffering, you'd be a brave 136 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: person to tell them how they should make that final choice. Yeah, 137 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: which I find quite extraordinary because it is it should 138 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: be your choice as an individual. And as I always 139 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: say when I talk about this, I understand people have 140 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: very different religious views. They've got very different views for whatever, 141 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: you know, their moral beliefs or whatever they may be, 142 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: but it is voluntary a sister dying to as you've 143 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: really really well pointed out there to someone who's dying, 144 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: who's suffering, And I think if you remember those two things, 145 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: it might actually make you think about it a little 146 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: bit differently. 147 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 2: And we absolutely respect the fact that it's not for everybody. Yeah, 148 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 2: some people don't believe for faith based reasons, for personal reasons, 149 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 2: or they might just not want that level of complexity 150 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 2: at the end of their life. That's absolutely fine. What 151 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 2: we are fighting for is that people shall have a 152 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 2: right to choose and not be asked to suffer unnecessarily. 153 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 2: If that's not what they want. 154 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: Tell me, I mean, what is your message really for 155 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: the Northern Territory government this morning? 156 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 2: Well, I have heard from the people I've been speaking 157 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 2: to a growing sense of frustration that it's enough, We've 158 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 2: waited long enough. We were the last and we are 159 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 2: proud of living in the Northern Territory, but we want 160 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 2: the same access to health choices that the rest of 161 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 2: the country has. So I think there's a growing sense that, 162 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 2: you know, forget yet again another review. Can we please 163 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 2: just get on and talk about what's the right law 164 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 2: for us in the Northern Territory. 165 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: Well go, gentle CEO, Doctor Linda Swan, I really appreciate 166 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: you joining us this morning. I think it's a really 167 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: important discussion to have, so thank you very much for 168 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: joining me in the studio. Thank you, thank you.