1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: But look, we're going to take a real change of 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: pace right now. 3 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 2: Unfortunately, our other guests have been able to move forward 4 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 2: a little bit, and questions have been raised over truancy 5 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 2: offices in the Northern Territory, with school attendants in the 6 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 2: Northern Territory remaining the lowest in the country despite some 7 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 2: additional measures being put into place. Now we know the 8 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 2: officers were introduced in November last year in an attempt 9 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 2: to tackle the problem of low attendance. Earlier this week, 10 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 2: the Northern Territory News reporting that school attendants sat at 11 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 2: seventy three percent in twenty twenty four, are full ten 12 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 2: points below the second worst Tasmania. Now, the Education Minister 13 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 2: Joe Hersey telling Estimates last week that the controversial approach 14 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 2: to non attendance had proven successful despite the fact that 15 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 2: it's costing twenty one million dollars. Now joining us on 16 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 2: the line to talk further about the issue is the 17 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 2: Australian Education Union's Northern Territory Branch president Michelle Airs. 18 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: Good morning, Michelle, Good morning, Keaty. Thanks so much for 19 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: joining us. A bit earlier, Michelle. 20 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 2: During Estimates, the Education Minister said there had been a 21 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 2: reduction of four hundred and sixty four students who needed 22 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 2: intensive support for not attending school for twenty plus days. 23 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: She said. 24 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 2: By term one this year there were one one hundred 25 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 2: and sixty four students on the intensive support role and 26 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 2: it was a decrease of four hundred and sixty four. 27 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 2: Do you think those numbers demonstrate the officers are having 28 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: an impact? 29 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 3: It is really kind of difficult data to interpret. In 30 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 3: order for a student to come off the intensive support role, 31 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 3: they just have to attend school for one day, they 32 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 3: have to have been marked off the role for one 33 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 3: day and then they'll go back into the Yes, absolutely 34 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 3: so there's no Although it does we do think that 35 00:01:54,400 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 3: the officers are having an impact, then impact at this 36 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 3: stage is we aren't sure of the longevity, and what 37 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 3: we do know is that it is placing pressure on classrooms. Now, 38 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 3: let's get it straight to begin with that these kids 39 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 3: should be at school, and that we especially like whether 40 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 3: Education Union. I've been on your program before advocating funding 41 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 3: and education for all children adequately. Our issue is more 42 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 3: that this approach is like, it needs to be a 43 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 3: multi pronged approach. We can't just be having people out 44 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 3: there bringing the kids to the classroom, we need to 45 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 3: make sure our classrooms are ready to receive those kids, 46 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 3: whether it be additional supports, flexible learning strategies, additional staff 47 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 3: at the school who can support the teachers to integrate 48 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 3: those students into the classroom in a calm way, whereas 49 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 3: we're seeing a lot of disengaged students or our members 50 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 3: are aplat disengaged students are coming through the door and 51 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,839 Speaker 3: then being putt in classrooms on short notice with very 52 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 3: little support. 53 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. Right, So from what I'm hearing, although they may 54 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 2: be having an impact in terms of getting kids back 55 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 2: to school, actually engaging the kids while they're at school 56 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 2: and you know, having them there doing the right thing 57 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 2: and wanting to learn is the much harder part. 58 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, And in my experience as a teacher, that's 59 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 3: the part that is key to getting those kids to 60 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 3: come back to making it so that they want to 61 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 3: come to school, so that they're not having to be 62 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 3: you know, collected and brought through the door. They have 63 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 3: agency in their own education. And I had incredible success 64 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 3: with quite young children who would run over to school 65 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 3: and attend, choose to attend because they were engaged and 66 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 3: actually getting some value out of school. 67 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 2: So tell me when you know when these students are 68 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 2: then to up to school after maybe not going for 69 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,119 Speaker 2: extended periods of time or whatever period of time. What 70 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 2: kind of concerns are teachers then saying that they're having 71 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 2: in the classroom in terms of trying to get them 72 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 2: to engage. 73 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, so, and I guess this is it depends on 74 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 3: the kid, right that we have had reports that when 75 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 3: disengaged students are coming in through the doors of some 76 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 3: classrooms in the NT that there is a heightened difficulty 77 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 3: for them to regulate their emotions or for there's heightened 78 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 3: aggression towards the teachers, there's disruption in the classroom that's 79 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 3: making it harder for them to deliver their programs. And 80 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 3: I guess also if you consider just that unpredictability of knowing, 81 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 3: is there going to be an extra kid on my 82 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 3: role today that I've never had or maybe haven't had 83 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 3: in quite some time, or there. 84 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: Could be quite a difficult. 85 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 3: Well, yes, And it's to be clear we should be 86 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 3: educating these kids like that, our classrooms should be prepared 87 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 3: to accept these kids in. It's more that the education 88 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 3: strategies and the CLP announced a few weeks ago, the 89 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 3: back to basics literacy and numeracy. This is something that 90 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 3: our classrooms, our teachers. This is a solid teaching approach 91 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 3: that were applied well, it can actually be good, but 92 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 3: it requires a lot of regular routines, that requires a 93 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 3: lot of teacher knowledge about how to break down learning 94 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 3: and deliver learning right at the point that the child 95 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 3: needs it in like micro steps, because it's about how 96 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 3: brain pathways are built for that kid. So you identify 97 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 3: what brain pathways they're up to building and you deliver 98 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 3: the education there. But then also there's an element of 99 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 3: it that's about cognitive load, which is you need to 100 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 3: reduce as many mental stresses as possible by having regular 101 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 3: routines and a stable environment so that that student can 102 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 3: learn and build those pathways. So the two programs at 103 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 3: the moment aren't working in sync because there's disruption being 104 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 3: brought in by students who are coming in without without 105 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 3: notice and without support. So really what we almost need 106 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 3: is and some schools are doing this, don't get me wrong. 107 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 3: It's the fact that this program needs to be supported 108 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 3: systemically at the back end as well, so that there's 109 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 3: a place, a way to receive those students into the school, 110 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 3: make sure they're entering classrooms where teachers can actually teach 111 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 3: them and they can get some value out of education. 112 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 3: So whether there's an additional class receiving those kids where 113 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 3: the teacher has less kids, or something like that. 114 00:06:57,920 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I was going to ask. How could that? 115 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 2: What do you reckon would be the best option there? 116 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 2: Because I guess, you know, to begin with, the corp 117 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 2: might have thought, all right, well, it's going to be 118 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 2: a bit of a trial to see whether we can 119 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 2: actually get these kids to school. It's looking like in 120 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 2: some cases they are going to school. But as you've 121 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 2: rightly pointed out, that's you know, that's the first bit. 122 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 2: You know, keeping them there and engaging them is the 123 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 2: tough part. So what might some of those measures be 124 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 2: that they could introduce to to try. 125 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: And do that. 126 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think we are working with the Department 127 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 3: of Education on this, and they are especially as that 128 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 3: better and fairst schools money. That's the one billion dollars 129 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 3: I've been on your program to think about before. That's 130 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 3: coming in by twenty twenty nine. So we've seen the 131 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 3: first iteration of that money coming in and that will 132 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 3: continue to grow up until twenty twenty nine, when it 133 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 3: will be at that one hundred percent level, and it 134 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 3: will continue at that level every year. So the schools 135 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 3: that have been able to see an increase in their funding, 136 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 3: we've been told by the Department of Education, are investing 137 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 3: in things like additional teachers or support staff who can 138 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 3: go into the classrooms to support those students when they're 139 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 3: coming in, or in a flexible learning model where there's 140 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 3: a classroom set up where those students go in as 141 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 3: an intake before they go into the general and the 142 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 3: aim being that they go into the general classrooms, but 143 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 3: that there's a place to intake those students and get 144 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 3: them feeling settled, identify, you know, what their learning needs are, 145 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 3: and how to address them before they're ever required, rather 146 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 3: than the concern I was presenting before, where they just 147 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 3: show up in the classroom, sometimes after the school bell 148 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 3: has gone, or often after the school bell has gone, 149 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 3: and the teachers scrambling to figure out, Okay, this is 150 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 3: my program for the day, how am I going to 151 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 3: fit this kid into it? 152 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 2: Michelle, it sounds, you know, it sounds as though it's 153 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 2: like it's not a simple fix, but it sounds as 154 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 2: though all of those things are certainly measures that we 155 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 2: could actually be you know, be undertaking to make sure 156 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 2: that it can happen. You know, from your perspective, and 157 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 2: based on that funding, how quickly do you think that 158 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 2: could happen? 159 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 3: Well, long term measures take time, and I think that 160 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 3: there are schools, as I said before, who are implementing it. 161 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 3: But unless there's intensive support or the CLP invests in 162 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 3: additional measures this year, we're likely to see the changes 163 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 3: over time is that additional funding continues to slow. I 164 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 3: think schools are where possible implementing their strategies. It's just 165 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 3: that they're constrained by a budget. And then they're also 166 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 3: constrained by classroom space. So we've got some of our 167 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 3: schools that are absolutely burst into the same So they 168 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 3: would like to put on an extra class, They have 169 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:53,959 Speaker 3: the funding for an extra teacher, but where do they 170 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 3: put them. That's absolutely a concern. And then there's the 171 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 3: teacher shortage, so they'd love to put on extra staff 172 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 3: that they're unable to fill those roles. So they're already 173 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 3: stretched because there is a shortage of teachers. And I 174 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 3: think we've seen more teachers coming to the NT and 175 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 3: more strategies to fill those places. But again, that is 176 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 3: something None of these problems are things that are fixed overnight. 177 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 3: So I would say that we've seen improvement, but we 178 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 3: need to be we need to be considering holistic solutions 179 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:32,319 Speaker 3: and we need to be careful to consider them when 180 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 3: we're talking about the successes, if that makes sense. 181 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 2: Michelle, do you have any idea at this point how 182 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 2: many teachers we are short in the Northern Territory right now? 183 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 3: I believe the last report we had was US over 184 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 3: one hundred, but that the amount of teachers we have 185 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 3: in the territory has gone up okay, So it's not 186 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 3: like the vacancies aren't being filled. That they're being filled 187 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 3: and we because of the new funding coming in, we've 188 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 3: been able to establish more positions, so the same number 189 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 3: of vacancies exist and that is felt. I think the 190 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 3: other issue is that the vacancies aren't felt even more 191 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 3: across the board. There's certain schools where they're fault more 192 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 3: than in other places. So places like Palmerston High for example, 193 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 3: have a number of vacancies that they've had either relief 194 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 3: teachers coming in more regularly or etc. But the department 195 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 3: have a number of a number of different strategies they're 196 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 3: using for short term approaches. What we're wanting to see 197 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 3: is more teachers recruited into those positions and some strategies 198 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 3: to make that happen. 199 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: Michelle can I ask as well. 200 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 2: Obviously we saw that bit of an update last week 201 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 2: when it comes to school counselors and funding dedicated to 202 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 2: those roles and also an expansion of who might be 203 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 2: able to fill those roles. Has that announcement been well 204 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,559 Speaker 2: received by teachers. 205 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 3: It will actually be kind of difficult to determine that 206 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 3: because it came in week ten of term two, so 207 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 3: I think at that point teachers were like, it's the 208 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 3: end of like they had their flight fixed on the 209 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 3: end of the tunnel, if that makes sense, and now 210 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 3: they're on school holidays. But yeah, as the new term 211 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 3: goes in, we'll be able to gauge more the responsive teachers. 212 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 3: I believe it does. There's some there are some strengths 213 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 3: to this announcement in that we have been advocating and 214 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 3: our teachers have been asking for so long for more support. 215 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 3: And this ties back to the original question right around 216 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 3: how do we integrate students who are disengaged? If we 217 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 3: can have qualified staff. So the expansion is allowing for 218 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 3: roles to be filled not only by qualified psychologists or counselors, 219 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 3: but also it's expanded to allow roles at a different 220 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 3: level to be filled by qualified social workers. 221 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 2: Yep. 222 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 3: And in this instance, social workers could very much be 223 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 3: what we need in these schools to get these students 224 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 3: to re engage and to stay there, to see the 225 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 3: value in education and as I said before, choose to 226 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 3: come back and that that could really see a turning 227 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 3: point in this attendance crisis for sure. 228 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope so well, Michelle Aires. It's always good 229 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 2: to catch up with you. I really appreciate you joining 230 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 2: us a little earlier than anticipated. Thank you so much 231 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 2: for your time today. 232 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 3: Thanks Pep's key. 233 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: Thank you