WEBVTT - Tim Minchin: UPRIGHT - ACTOR 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:01.720 It's in the news today, but it was actually on 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:05.480 TV Reloaded podcast last week Airline. Welcome back guys to 0:00:05.559 --> 0:00:08.640 TV Reload. My name is Benjamin Norris, and on this 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:11.959 podcast I go behind the scenes with the biggest players 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:15.080 in television. Each episode you will get a front row 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:19.720 seat with content makers like executive producers, writers, editors and 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:23.040 casting agents, plus the talent that we see on our screens. 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:26.479 TV Reload reloads the shows that you're currently watching and 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:30.000 gives you a better insight into our television industry and 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:33.199 our streaming services. Today. On the podcast, I have the 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:36.800 Australian icon Tim Minchin, who is joining me to discuss 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:40.680 Series two of his brilliant TV series Upright, which drops 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:43.879 on the fifteenth of November on Binge and Foxtel. The 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:47.040 scripted drama follows our two beloved miss Fitz, played by 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:50.360 Tim and Millie Alcock, following on from the first series, 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:52.960 which saw them both thrown together by chance in the 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:56.320 middle of the Australian desert. They however, both reteamed for 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.720 series two to track down Meg's mum and far North Queensland, 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:03.560 and let me tell you the chaos resurfaces. Upright is 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:07.320 a blend of humor and drama, which is executed beautifully. 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:11.760 It is crafted by some of Australia's best scripted drama creatives. 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:14.759 The first series winning awards and I'm sure the second 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:17.400 series will do the same. We will talk about Tim's 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:20.920 creative process, whether he asked Millie Alcock about her time 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:23.760 filming House of the Dragon, and we will also unpack 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:26.399 the highs and lows of fame, which obviously Tim knows 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:29.880 very well. However, let's get started with today's guest. I'd 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:33.680 like to welcome writer, musician, actor and comedian Tim Minchin 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:34.880 to TV Reload. 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:40.120 I think in Upright, and in my work in general, 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:44.160 I'm trying to find ways to write stuff that does 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:45.560 laugh in the face of pain. 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:48.720 And the winner of Best Comedy Series is Upright. 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:51.480 The category doesn't really matter. It's going to be funny 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:52.680 if you get the right writers. 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:55.800 We've got this kind of gentle humor and the drama 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:56.920 and it's really moving. 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:00.960 Lucky needs to take responsibility for the people that love him. 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:03.040 That We've had no short of actors who've wanted to 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:05.320 sort of come and play with us on Upright. 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.200 I still, even after meeting so many famous people, I 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:11.240 still my brain still makes the mistake of. 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.880 Sort of putting them in a different category. I'm looking 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:14.520 for my mum. 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:17.760 You can't show up after four years and just expect 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:20.040 me to hop on a plane with you. I could 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:21.600 tell by the way she was talking about it that, 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:24.280 you know, with all the confidentiality causes, I knew it 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:25.840 could only be a couple of things. 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:28.280 Hi, Tim, how are your mate? 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:29.360 Hell Man? 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:31.800 How are you? I'm pretty good. Yeah, a little bit 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:36.639 crusty only in the voice. Really. I had the launch 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:40.040 of season two of our show last night and it 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:42.320 was a little lots of interviews and stuff, So yeah, 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:44.119 bit crusty in the voice, but I'm fine. 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:47.040 Well, you've been in the entertainment Zekeist for as long 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:50.120 as I can remember, and you've made such an impact 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:54.120 on you know, writing comedy, musicals, acting. I mean, the 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:56.840 list really could go on, all the while still being 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:59.480 very true to yourself. I guess the main question I 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:01.680 have for you is where the hell do you find 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:02.280 your energy? 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:08.600 Uh, it's mostly fear, I think, because I lock myself 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:11.000 into things and then you're just sort of peddling to 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:15.160 keep up. I think I really like doing new things 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:18.679 and sort of challenging myself, so it's sort of self perpetuating. 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:22.440 And also I think I wasn't sort of brought up 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:24.680 to think that you have a right to be an artist, 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.679 and you know, oh, I've got talent and I'm gifted. 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.160 So I'll just sort of let the inspiration come and 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:32.760 some days I'll be on and some days I'll be off. 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:34.440 There's sort of I don't know, something to do with 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:36.280 the culture I was brought up here. It's like, if 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:39.000 you want to be an artist, you'd work harder than 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:42.360 everyone else. And you know, there are nine work hours 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:44.400 in the day or whatever, and you work them. And 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:47.880 if you actually just treat your work like work, it's 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:49.640 amazing what you can get done. You know, if you 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:52.200 don't do too much naval gazing, I still get a 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:53.280 bit of naval gazing done. 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:55.360 Mind, we all need it, we all need it. I 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:57.560 guess for me, I would be like, would I get 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:01.240 distracted on the different categories, because like I can imagine 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:02.800 you get up and you'd be like, oh, I've got 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:05.960 some great comedy that's you know, for almost stand up, 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:07.240 and then you'd be like, oh, but I want to 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:10.160 write this musical. Does it all get quite distracting or 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:13.200 can you block it so you know exactly what you're doing. 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:14.400 It's a good question. 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:18.560 I mostly structure my life so I know exactly what 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:21.320 my task is at any given time. And that's why 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:24.120 this last month's been hard, because when you're doing lots 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:26.480 of press and things, that's another sort of part of 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.000 your brain. And because I don't really I go, well, 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:31.440 that's not really work, that's just talking about yourself. So 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:34.440 I should be able to do something else during that 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:36.920 press heavy period. So I'm trying to write this new 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:39.320 TV show and I'm on a deadline because there's a 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:40.799 production company attached and stuff. 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:42.840 So it's not just like me going, oh, maybe I'll 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:43.480 have a go on a show. 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.320 It's like I pitched this show and a production's company gone, yeah, 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:48.279 here's your deadline, let's get it to market. 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:50.160 And I'm I'm trying to write it. 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:53.120 But I've slightly underestimated how much of my brain and 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:57.080 energy is required for this incredible press cycle I'm doing 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:59.240 because I've got so many things coming down the pipeline 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:01.960 at the same time, and so it does my head. 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:06.520 My head's been a little bit explody recently, but mostly 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:10.279 I you know, I don't like have comedy ideas. In fact, 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:12.800 I've not really done comedy for ten years. And it's 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:16.360 weird because it looks like I'm simultaneously a comedian and 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:20.320 a composer. But really I did comedy between two thousand 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:22.680 and five and twenty twelve, and since then I've mostly 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:26.479 been not but because of YouTube and because when I 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:29.080 get on stage, I'm still sort of vaguely funny. No 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:31.200 one sort of has noticed that I don't. 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:32.000 Do comedy anymore. 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:34.440 I mean, every now and then I put out something satirical, 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:36.960 but yeah, I do things in clumps, is the short answer. 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:39.640 It's hard for me because I'm in my forties and 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.680 you've always been a part of my adult life, and 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:45.080 so I think of you as all those things. You 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:47.039 may not be all of those things, but for me, 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:50.960 you are a comedian. You know, you did Matilda, like 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:53.159 all of these things to me are all the things 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:55.159 that you've achieved. So I just consider you to be 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.279 those things where you know, you'd probably be a little 0:05:57.320 --> 0:05:59.719 bit mad if you woke up every day and needed 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:02.800 to take some medication to try and balance it all out, 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:03.200 you know. 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:06.440 No, it's all yeah, yeah, Well I love that that's 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:08.960 how I sit in your head. And it's certainly been 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:12.880 my ambition to be someone where if someone if someone says, 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:15.920 what does he do that the answer is not not easy. 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:19.000 I really really like that, and I really like that 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:23.800 I get to I haven't got stuck in any particular area. 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:28.120 But yeah, it's quite, it's quite. Yeah, I'm quite sort 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:31.040 of diligent or something. I just sort of do what's 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:34.640 in front of me, and sometimes I struggle. But when 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:36.919 I if I've got a score to write or a 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:39.880 TV show to write, I do think I have. I 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:42.400 do a lot of procrastinating and a lot of self 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:45.160 doubt and all that stuff. But quite often I can 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:48.200 just get into a if I'm in, if I'm kind 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:50.960 of on and I've got a TV script to write, 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:52.840 that I see no reason why he shouldn't get it 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:54.760 done in a day, and I can't. I can get 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:56.760 it done in a day. I can sort of hyper focus, 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:58.840 and I think that helps me a bit. 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:02.200 Well. Upright is and you have put so much guts 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:04.919 into every episode. This kind of is a bit of 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:07.400 a beginning's a bit of an origins question. So we 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:10.240 allow people that may not have seen series one to understand. 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:12.480 But how did these characters surface. 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:16.960 Well, they were gifted to me really in their embryonic form, 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:20.040 because I came on this project a little bit late. 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:23.760 It was an idea by Chris Taylor, who's known as 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:26.600 one of the Chaser guys, but he's been branching out 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:28.440 over the last few years as well into all sorts 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:31.840 of stuff, and he pitched to Lingo Pictures an idea 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:34.920 of a guy trying to get a piano across Australia 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:37.040 in a ute, you know, sort of an image in 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:39.040 his head and he thought, you know, at some point 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:42.040 he thought, oh, there could be a buddy comedy thing. 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:44.640 Maybe he you know, picks up someone on the way. 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.000 And then Lingo got Kate mulvaney and Leon Ford, who 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:50.880 both happened to be really good friends of mine, on board, 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:54.520 because from quite early on Chris and Lingo Pictures went well, 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.080 this we should try and get Tim and I was 0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:59.400 living in la and doing stuff, so they thought it 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:01.800 was a bit of a long shot that they would 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:03.600 get me. But they brought on Leon and Kate and 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:06.520 developed the sort of they came up the idea that 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:07.040 there'd be a. 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:10.240 Teenage runaway or a teenage girl. 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.440 And that it would be this weird, odd couple, you know, 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:17.040 comedy lark, you know, And then they pitched it to 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.840 me and I came to Australia for a week and 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.000 sat with them in a room and sort of said 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.720 to them, I'm not that interested in comedy, or at 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.880 least I think the comedy will look after itself. 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:30.480 I want to know what the story is. I want 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:32.600 to know what the drama is. Why is he taking 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:33.520 this piano? All that. 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:36.520 So we did this big workshop and realized that we 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.839 wanted to make it a drama. And again, we're all 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.760 comic writers, so you know, the category doesn't really matter. 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:44.920 It's going to be funny if you get the right writers. 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.880 But I wanted the bones to be dramatic, and so 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.480 from that point on I was very heavily involved in 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:55.240 the Watson whys and who's of the story. And you know, 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.559 Meg rose up out of you know, Kate Mulvaney's comes 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:02.800 from Joe and had a much sort of tougher upbringing, 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:04.880 so a lot of discussions about what that was like 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.959 growing up in the country, and she just kind of emerged. 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:09.679 But we wanted her to be a superhero. 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:13.040 You know that she was incredibly resilient and you know, 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:15.920 could drive a car at thirteen and do all those things, 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:18.320 but then of course she has all this damage as 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:18.840 well well. 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:23.360 The balance between humor and dark subject matter throughout series 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:27.240 one and two is like a tapestry like no other. Yeah, 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:29.880 I mean, how hard is that to get that blend 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:32.720 right when you're working in the writer's room, because they 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:37.560 are short episodes and to then interwine something quite serious 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:39.840 but also something that makes you laugh out loud. I 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:42.040 imagine that to be really hard to do. 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:43.640 It's a really good question. 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.400 I'm really glad you think it succeeds, because that was 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:49.920 always our obsession. I mean, we come from the history 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.800 of our industry has always been that you either are 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.240 doing comedy or drama, and it's sort of always been 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:59.200 this artificial binary really to do with format, like they go, okay, 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:02.000 we need it. You know, Channel seven needs a half 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:05.000 hour show, which with adds is twenty six minutes or whatever, 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.600 and you know that needs to be light and fluffy, 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:09.680 because what can you get done in twenty six minutes? 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:11.720 And so you put a laugh track on whatever. And 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:13.360 then at the other end is you know, the ABC 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:15.320 wants a drama and it's going to be fifty seven 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:17.079 minutes and it's going to have all this and. 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:19.079 It's just how the genres. 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:21.040 Grew up in our heads. But they're completely artificial, and 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:24.880 now we all stream stuff. It's just gone away. And 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.640 so I guess my answer is, I think if you 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.360 get rid of those categories in your head and you 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:33.880 try and write life in a really entertaining way, what 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:39.080 emerges is a butting of comedy and tragedy, right, Like 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.120 you can't help it, because that's what life is. That's 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:44.520 you know, I don't know. I remember when my granddad 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:46.679 died and we're all sitting around watching him die, and 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:49.720 the jokes that, you know, like, it's just there's so 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:52.000 much comedy in the face of that stuff. 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:54.560 I think if you're being raw and you're being honest 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.840 about something, I think when you're going through something as well, 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:00.719 there can be something quite funny. I mean, I can 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:03.240 relate to that. One of my girlfriends lost her sister 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:07.120 very sadly, and she rang me afterwards to say that, 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:09.559 you know, they kept laughing the day that she passed away, 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:13.000 you know, in this room, and she felt terrible about it. 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:16.200 And I was like, I think it's the human condition. 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.680 I think it's a way of dealing with real world, 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:22.600 you know. So I said not to feel bad about 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:26.840 it and this. When I started watching Series one, I 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:30.120 did think it was very dark, but then I found 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:33.560 myself laughing more than being sad, and I think that's 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:34.880 a good balance to have. 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:36.559 Yeah, I think that's right. 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:39.000 I mean, there's so much to talk about there, just 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:42.400 the role of comedy in dealing with the tough things 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:46.000 of life, and that we must keep doing that, you know, 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:50.199 in the internet world, because where our activities are observed 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:52.600 and we're worried about saying the wrong thing and stuff, 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:55.480 it can lead to a loss of irony because irony 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:58.199 is something that requires you know your audience. 0:11:58.320 --> 0:11:59.520 You know, the sort of irony. 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:01.760 You know, you don't have to be being an edged 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:04.720 lord or anything, but irony in the face of tragedy 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:07.920 is very very important within cultures, very hard on the 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:09.880 Internet because you don't know who's watching the whether they 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:14.120 understand the context. I mean, irony really at its core 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:17.080 is saying the opposite of what you mean, but having 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:19.600 your audience understand what you mean. Right. It's a clash 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:23.920 between content and intent. I think in upright and in 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.440 my work in general, I'm trying to find ways to. 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:29.880 I think all of us are trying to find ways to. 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:32.720 Everything can get a little bit literal and a bit 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:36.040 sort of precious and cautious, and I don't think that's 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:38.800 how humans are. So I'm trying to write stuff that 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:42.200 does laugh in the face of pain. And obviously, someone 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:46.480 like Meg who's got this terrible, terrible trauma revealed in 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.880 season one, you know, there's a few things that help 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:52.680 her heal. I mean, she never people don't ever, one 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:55.280 hundred percent get over that stuff, but art kind of 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:58.920 helps her heal. And ceremony in season one they bury 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:01.920 a camel, but it's a ceremony that she needed, and 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:03.720 he sings a song in the middle of the desert, 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:07.400 and that's the art that helps reflect her emotions. And 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:10.840 then there's humor, always humor. She turns around the next 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:14.080 morning having just revealed this terrible trauma, and we're back 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:17.320 into gags and undercutting and stuff, And I just think 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:19.760 it's how life works. And if I can keep doing 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:21.920 that in my art, that feels right to me. 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:24.400 Is this character for you in some ways a little 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:25.520 bit cathartic to play. 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.880 Yeah, it's nice to play a person who's got a 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:32.960 bit of damage because I don't. I don't have damage 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.600 I have. You know, I've lived a few years now, 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:39.000 and I've lived around the world, and I have more 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:41.400 stuff to talk about than I did when I started writing. 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:43.600 When I started writing, I was very much like writing 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:45.680 about being a middle class I want to be rockstar 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:47.920 and stuff, and I didn't know. I sort of taken 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:49.400 the piss out of the fact I didn't have much 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:53.160 experience or pain to draw from. It's nice to write 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:57.840 a character or co write a character who who's kind 0:13:57.840 --> 0:13:59.640 of like the version of me that I would be 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.080 if i'd been less if I've made less good decisions, 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:04.000 if I've made more bad decisions, like if you hadn't 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.560 met Sarah, Yeah, if I hadn't met Sarah. 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:10.400 Like it's and it is nice to play. You know. 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:13.840 I was also not brought up to make much of 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:17.360 a fuss of what my own feelings and my job 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:19.160 is to be a good dad and to be a 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:22.200 good artist and a good husband and be kind and 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:24.960 appreciate my privilege and all that. It's quite nice to 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:26.520 just write someone who's a bit fucked up, so you 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:28.480 can just sort of do those bits of yourself that 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:30.720 you're spending your whole time like going, well, there's no 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:34.120 room for that in my life. I'll carry on being 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.600 a good you know, blah blah. So it's nice to 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:38.920 just get into the grid of what, you know, the 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:40.760 potential experiences of human life. 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:44.560 I suppose it's like the alternate reality. You know, this 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.200 could really be where I am. Thank God I'm not, 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:49.800 but I can dip into it and kind of enjoy it, 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:53.000 you know, exactly without being the person that's rolled your life. 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:57.440 You know, your chemistry with Mellie al Kock is unbelievable. 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:01.320 Every episode it's positively magic. Did you know that she 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.160 was a bona fide star the minute that you met her? 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.640 I think when I first saw the tapes, you know, 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.280 with the casting agent sent out the call for young 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:15.280 women to play this role, and of course Megan season one, 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:18.200 we find out eventually is only thirteen. So you're you're 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.200 looking for teenage girls. Well, yeah, you're looking for people 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:24.400 who can play thirteen, and there are yea. Millie was 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:28.040 eighteen when she or not quite when she auditioned, and 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:30.680 looks you know, famously looks very young. So there was 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.320 all that, but yeah, there's absolutely no doubt. When I 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:36.280 saw her tape, I thought, wow. 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:38.640 She's pretty. 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:42.160 The camera really gets her, you know, she really knows 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:42.520 how to. 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:44.640 I don't know, I don't know what it is. You know, 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:45.960 I can talk about it for a long time. 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:48.560 She eats the less like it, even if the dialogue 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:52.120 isn't always it just a look, just an emotion, just 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:56.600 an interaction that she has with Lucky is just unbelievable. 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:59.440 I mean, a lot has changed for her in her life, 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:01.840 you know, since you made the first series. I don't 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:03.480 want to go too far deep into this, but were 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:05.320 you able to ask her any questions about the Game 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:07.800 of Thrones world House of the Dragon or did you 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:09.920 just not ask her any of those questions? 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:13.080 Oh? Well, I yeah, we stayed in touch just vaguely 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:13.800 through that year. 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:14.840 I'd just sort of check. 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:17.240 In a little bit because it's been a few years 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:20.880 since we did season one, and obviously I can't remember. 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:24.640 I saw her somewhere when she was waiting on She 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.120 wasn't allowed to say what it was, and she told 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:29.400 me that she was waiting on something, and I could 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:31.600 tell she was talking about I'm going to have to 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:34.120 go to England for a year, and I was like, well, 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:36.280 it's Star Wars or Game of Thrones. I was like, 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.520 I know, I could tell by the way she was 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.480 talking about it that, you know, with all the confidentiality clauses, 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:43.000 I knew it could only be a couple of things. 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:46.360 And I went and saw her in We had a 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.960 really nice afternoon having drinks at so her house at 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.440 the end of her House of the Dragon year before 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:53.920 she came back and it up right, and yeah, I 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.680 got a big debrief on what that was. Like, I mean, 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:59.960 it's I mean, it's a weird thing. I think viewer 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.720 sort of think of the world as it's twenty million 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.600 bucks an episode, right, and it's they're acting against green 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.920 screen a lot, and they're you know, there's there's dragons 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:11.520 that are out there actually just sort of sitting on 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:15.880 cardboard boxes and all that. It's a different sort of world, 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:19.080 but it's the same. It's not like you've got upright 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.200 and then Star Wars and Star Wars is some extraordinary, 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:25.600 extraordinarily different experience. So still you get into make up 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:28.480 at four am and you've got costume and the costumes 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:30.480 in the costume department and you've got your lines you 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:31.919 have to learn and that comes on a little a 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:33.920 five piece of paper and it's. 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:35.600 Just like it is what it is. 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:40.880 The difference for Millie is that she's so gifted, she's 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:44.640 so good that she even makes some of the most 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:46.880 experienced actors in the world look a little like they're 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:51.119 competing having to kind of hold on while she's on screen, 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:52.359 but she's not. 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.359 But upright, it's harder. Upright, it's tougher work. 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.000 You know, if you loved her in Game House of 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:02.399 the Dragon, you haven't seen up right. I mean season 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:04.480 one she was a kid, but her work in season 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:07.919 two is like so the emotional range she has to 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:11.840 play and the brutality of making an Australian TV show 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:14.760 where you're trying to do this huge thing for a 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:18.760 fiftieth of the money and you don't have endless takes 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:21.600 at all, You've got one or two, and you don't 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:24.760 have the half a day to set up the lights 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:27.359 so that you look absolutely perfect in every frame, and 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:30.240 you don't have all this structure around you. You're just 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:33.400 you and your acting chops. It's you and the text 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:38.359 and obviously fantastic lighting department, fantastic directors, fantastic cameras, but 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:42.960 it's really harder and she I sort of just when 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.480 I watch House of the Dragon, I'm like, well, she's amazing, 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:49.280