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Speaker 1: Do you find yourself constantly trying to ensure that people

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Speaker 1: like you, maybe bending over backwards to avoid giving bad

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Speaker 1: news or make someone unhappy. But what if the extra

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Speaker 1: reassurance and the fear of being too direct actually causing

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Speaker 1: you more harm than good. Many of us battle with

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Speaker 1: some degree of people pleasing in our personalities, and the

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Speaker 1: negative consequences can appear both in our personal and professional lives.

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Speaker 1: To dive into this topic, we are joined by Laura

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Speaker 1: Henshaw to talk about how she realized that her need

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Speaker 1: to be liked was affecting those working under her. Laura

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Speaker 1: Henshaw is a dynamic force in the health and wellness

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Speaker 1: industry as the co founder and CEO of the incredibly

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Speaker 1: successful Kick app and community. She leads a mission to

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Speaker 1: reshape how people perceive wellness and their relationship with themselves,

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Speaker 1: and Laura is having a massive impact with the Kick

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Speaker 1: app currently sitting at over two point five million users

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Speaker 1: and reaching people in over one hundred and twenty countries.

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Speaker 1: In this episode, we discussed the ways that your people

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Speaker 1: pleasing could be holding you back, how Laura changed her

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Speaker 1: people pleasing behavior, and how she broke her destructive habit

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Speaker 1: of reading comments from all the trolls. Welcome to How

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Speaker 1: I Work, a show about habits, rituals, and strategies for

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Speaker 1: optimizing your day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imber. In

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Speaker 1: addition to her incredible success, Laura is a self confessed

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Speaker 1: people pleaser, but she's done the work to improve in

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Speaker 1: that area. In fact, she did that work with her coach,

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Speaker 1: Jennie Martino, who helped her realize how her need to

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Speaker 1: be liked was affecting her work.

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Speaker 2: The biggest thing that comes to mind is when I

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Speaker 2: met Janie. One of the biggest things holding me back

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Speaker 2: in when I say reaching my full potential as a leader,

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Speaker 2: I feel like we're always learning and growing, right, So

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Speaker 2: I'm definitely not there yet, and I hope I never

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Speaker 2: get there, because you want to keep growing and evolving.

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Speaker 2: But something that was holding me back a lot was

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Speaker 2: how much I cared about what people think or thought,

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Speaker 2: and also my need to be liked by every single person.

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Speaker 2: When you need to be liked by everyone that you're leading,

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Speaker 2: if that's kind of something that and I didn't consciously

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Speaker 2: put it as a KPI, but subconsciously that was number

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Speaker 2: one before everything else, which isn't the best for anyone

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Speaker 2: at all, because then you're leading at a lot of

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Speaker 2: the time in fear because you don't want to let

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Speaker 2: anyone down. You want people to like you. So giving

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Speaker 2: feedback is incredibly difficult. Feedback is obviously incredibly important for

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Speaker 2: people growing in their career, al so in being clear

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Speaker 2: and where you actually want the business to go and

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Speaker 2: taking control of it and executing the vision, the strategy, etc.

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Speaker 2: But I was so stuck in thinking that that mattered.

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Speaker 2: And I think for me, I have a lot of

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Speaker 2: people pleasing tendencies, and I don't want to say that

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Speaker 2: all women do not have that, and that's great, and

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Speaker 2: I don't want anyone listening to think that, oh, because

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Speaker 2: I'm a woman, I must be a people pleaser, because

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Speaker 2: I don't think that's the case at all. But I

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Speaker 2: think unfortunately maybe in gender stereotypical roles where more of

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Speaker 2: the care is or expected to be, etc. And so

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Speaker 2: sometimes it does come up. And so my people pleasing

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Speaker 2: tendencies really leaned into that need to be liked, and

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Speaker 2: so I've had to undo a lot of that, which

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Speaker 2: Janey helped me work through, and I have just like

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Speaker 2: the way that I'm able to lead now in comparison

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Speaker 2: when I look back at that person, I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 2: my goodness, it's crazy. Like I do identify still with

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Speaker 2: with myself of you know, three or whatever years ago,

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Speaker 2: two years ago, but I just feel so different, like

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Speaker 2: I've been let free and being able to let that go.

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Speaker 1: I feel like you've just described my twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: I want to know for you, though, Laura, if you

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Speaker 1: think back over the last three years and this big

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Speaker 1: shift that you've made, what are some of those practical

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Speaker 1: things that you did, all those mindset shifts that you

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Speaker 1: had to make that had the biggest difference.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's such a good question, and it's great that

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Speaker 2: you've also been on the journey because I think a

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Speaker 2: lot of people have and will relate to this. For me,

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Speaker 2: and one of the questions Janie asked me was and

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Speaker 2: we work through this in one of my I think

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Speaker 2: it was almost my first session with Janey, which was

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Speaker 2: why do you want to be liked? Like? Why is

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Speaker 2: that important? And is that actually what is important to you?

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Speaker 2: And what we came out to is, no, I don't.

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Speaker 2: It's not really about being liked per se, but it's

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Speaker 2: about being respected. And I think that was kind of

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Speaker 2: rooted in a lot of stuff. For me. I know

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Speaker 2: we might touch today on imposter syndrome and kind of

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Speaker 2: being a young female leader. So because of where my

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Speaker 2: career started was with social or part of it was

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Speaker 2: social media, and so for a very long time, I

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Speaker 2: felt that I wasn't taken seriously. Well I wasn't. Actually

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Speaker 2: I can not just what I thought. I was not

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Speaker 2: taken seriously by a lot of people that I worked with.

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Speaker 1: How did you know for sure?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean there were times when I was in

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Speaker 2: rooms with people that I worked with that would describe

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Speaker 2: so often Steph and I as the marketing girls, and

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Speaker 2: it's like, no, we built this brand, we run this business, etc.

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Speaker 2: There's been multiple occasions where that has happened in different ways,

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Speaker 2: and I think at that time, I felt like I

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Speaker 2: just had to prove myself. And I think because of

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Speaker 2: that kind of I've definitely worked through that and now

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Speaker 2: I know that like that's on them. I don't have

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Speaker 2: to prove myself to anyone. But that definitely was a

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Speaker 2: big cause of why I then felt that I had

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Speaker 2: to kind of lead that way. And so for me,

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Speaker 2: it was kind of thinking about, Okay, I need to

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Speaker 2: be respected, that's what it's important, and then it's unpacking. Okay,

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Speaker 2: how do you get respect with your team? How do

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Speaker 2: you get respect with the people around you by being

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Speaker 2: a good leader and knowing that you can still lead

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Speaker 2: with empathy, because that's very, very very important to me.

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Speaker 2: But I think it was also the realization that it

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Speaker 2: is impossible to be liked by everyone because no matter what,

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Speaker 2: like I know that you know, in running a business

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Speaker 2: and everyone that's listening that does most decisions you make,

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Speaker 2: there is going to be someone that's not going to

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Speaker 2: like the decision. It's very very rare we make decisions

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Speaker 2: where everyone agrees on it and is going to like

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Speaker 2: the outcome, right, especially when you're running a business. And

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Speaker 2: so it was also that realization that I was, well,

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Speaker 2: I'm setting myself up to fail because i can't actually

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Speaker 2: achieve this and I'm not driving the business. And in

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Speaker 2: my role as CEO of if I'm not driving the

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Speaker 2: business for then I shouldn't be in the.

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Speaker 1: Role how then, because I feel like one of the

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Speaker 1: hardest areas where this plays out is when you have

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Speaker 1: to have those tough conversations and I mean I hate

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Speaker 1: calling them to have conversations. I try to think of

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Speaker 1: them as important conversations as opposed to difficult conversations because

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Speaker 1: it changes the mindset. But they're hard if you've got

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Speaker 1: a high need to be liked and you are delivering

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Speaker 1: news that someone else is going to find tough or

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Speaker 1: confronting or hard to take on board. How did you

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Speaker 1: change your approach to those kinds of conversations.

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Speaker 2: I think realizing that in going in to be liked.

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Speaker 2: So there was one instance. I remember I delivered something

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Speaker 2: to the team and Janie was there, and she said,

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Speaker 2: because I had always thought like I have to do

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Speaker 2: like a sandwich, I think this is something I don't

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Speaker 2: actually got sandwich. I don't agree that I should be.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's the best way to approachings, but

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Speaker 2: I used to. And the feedback I got was it

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Speaker 2: was almost like I made a sandwich, but it was

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Speaker 2: like with the thinnest slice of ham in the middle,

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Speaker 2: which is what I had to deliver, and then it

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Speaker 2: had like a hundred pieces of bread on both sides,

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Speaker 2: so no one got the message no one's tasty because

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Speaker 2: I put so stuff around it in the fear that

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Speaker 2: of the thing I was delivering. What that then means

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Speaker 2: is I think when you're delivering out of a place

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Speaker 2: of fear. If you don't believe in what you're saying

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Speaker 2: or feel that it's fair or whatever it might be,

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Speaker 2: how the heck is your team going to find it

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Speaker 2: also fair and believe in it back. So that's number

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Speaker 2: one thing. But what I then was able to navigate

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Speaker 2: through time was realizing the biggest I think one of

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Speaker 2: the biggest realizations for me was feedback is a kindness.

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Speaker 2: Being clear is kind That's the biggest thing. And there's

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Speaker 2: a book I can't remember the name of it. I

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Speaker 2: will find it once I finish this pod and I

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Speaker 2: can send it through to put in the show notes.

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Speaker 2: But it's fantastic And at the start of it there's

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Speaker 2: a chapter around an employee that never gets feedback. They're

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Speaker 2: the really likable person in the office. They contribute to

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Speaker 2: culture Radical candor Yes, radical Canda, Yes Yeah. Who's the

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Speaker 2: author is it Kim Scott? Yes? Kim Scott, Radical Candor.

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Speaker 2: That first chapter made I recommend anyone that is struggling

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Speaker 2: with this right now to read that. It made such

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Speaker 2: a bigin for me because this person in this book

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Speaker 2: wasn't giving any given any feedback because everyone was trying

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Speaker 2: to avoid it because they liked them and they thought

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Speaker 2: that would be best for them. And then when they

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Speaker 2: were let go and they said, why didn't anyone tell me?

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Speaker 2: It's like stepping back and actually thinking about that, why

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Speaker 2: didn't anyone tell you? Because they were trying to protect you?

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Speaker 2: But in trying to protect you and be likable, you know,

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Speaker 2: to them, you then set them up to fail in

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Speaker 2: their role. And if people are coming to work with you,

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Speaker 2: I think I always feel like Kick, we're so lucky

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Speaker 2: to have the team that we have, and for people

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Speaker 2: to take time within their career path at Kick, you know,

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Speaker 2: and for us to be part of their journey is

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Speaker 2: a really special thing, and it's very important that we

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Speaker 2: offer career growth and development for those people. But if

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Speaker 2: we're not giving feedback on how they can improve or

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Speaker 2: being clear with our expectations, that's not the best for

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Speaker 2: them and it's also not the best for the business.

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Speaker 2: And that's where another really really big lesson from Janney

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Speaker 2: has come in on communication and the power of being

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Speaker 2: clear that you can do that with empathy, and that's

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Speaker 2: been a huge, huge lesson for me as well. And

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Speaker 2: you just as I said, like that sandwich with the

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Speaker 2: hundred slices of bread on each side. It doesn't help anyone.

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Speaker 2: And you say it is hard. You walk into the room,

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Speaker 2: you know you're having a hard conversation. You just need

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Speaker 2: to start it. Once you're in the conversation, it's absolutely fine.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of just that start part where you feel uncomfortable,

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Speaker 2: but you're also assuming what the other person is going

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Speaker 2: to do or how they're going to react. You don't know,

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Speaker 2: and so I think we need to also give people

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Speaker 2: the benefit of the doubt in that situation that though

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Speaker 2: they might be aligned with this or they might take

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Speaker 2: this on board, it's also their choice if they take

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Speaker 2: it on board or not right, but it is as

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Speaker 2: leaders it is our responsibility to share that with them.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask in terms of this need to

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Speaker 1: be liked and how you've kind of shifted that into

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a need to be respected. I'm reminded

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Speaker 1: of I thought it was such a powerful interview that

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Speaker 1: you gave on the Imperfect I want to say that

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Speaker 1: was late twenty twenty three maybe, but during that interview

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Speaker 1: you spoke about how you read the comments online, all

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Speaker 1: of them, and Steph, your business partner and best friend doesn't,

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Speaker 1: and I remember being really surprised but curious. Has your

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Speaker 1: behavior changed in light of, I guess, trying to manage

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Speaker 1: your people pleasing ways? Or do you still do that? Oh?

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Speaker 2: Great question. I'm very proud to say that I don't

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Speaker 2: do that anymore.

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Speaker 1: How did you stop?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I working through all of this, and I

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Speaker 2: suppose it's kind of separate to my leadership journey per se,

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Speaker 2: but it'll write it it all comes together and links in.

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Speaker 2: I tried to and have been on a journey to

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Speaker 2: stop caring about what people I think. And Brene Brown

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Speaker 2: talks about this a lot, and it's one of my

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Speaker 2: favorite pieces of work that she has done when she

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Speaker 2: talks about people in the arena and if someone is

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Speaker 2: not in the arena with you, getting their butt kicked

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Speaker 2: like their opinion. I've definitely put to this, But essentially

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Speaker 2: it's like their opinion doesn't matter because they're up sitting

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Speaker 2: just watching and observing. And I think what I was

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Speaker 2: doing was thinking that. For me, it comes down to

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Speaker 2: growing up. Something that I valued myself on a lot

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Speaker 2: was being a hard worker. And so that's something that

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to undo as an adult now because I

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Speaker 2: think often what I do is I hide behind the

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Speaker 2: fact that I work hard, because then I don't have

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Speaker 2: to think about, well, hang on, what value do I

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Speaker 2: add here? It's like, well, I'm a hard worker. That's

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Speaker 2: the value that I add. But if I strip that

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Speaker 2: back and I don't do that, which can lead to

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Speaker 2: burnout and you can't work, you know, sixteen hours a

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Speaker 2: day for the rest of your life every single day.

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Speaker 2: It's too much, you know, ebbs and flows, and sometimes

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Speaker 2: I'll be busy weeks and less busy weeks. But I

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Speaker 2: have had to strip that back, and I think a

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Speaker 2: part of that was there's a book called Burnout. It's fantastic.

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Speaker 2: There's one page that's about the whip and I just

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Speaker 2: related to it so much when I read it, and

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Speaker 2: essentially what they talk about is and it's mainly aimed

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Speaker 2: at women. This book. For a lot of people, we

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Speaker 2: feel that we have to seek out this, like I

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Speaker 2: was these trolling comments because the reason I was seeking

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Speaker 2: them out is because I feel like I have to

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Speaker 2: continue working hard, I have to continue improving, and so

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Speaker 2: if I would read it, it was almost this fuel

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Speaker 2: of the fire of Okay, I'm not good enough yet,

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Speaker 2: I have to keep. In the book, the way they

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Speaker 2: talk about it is it's a whip. I have to

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Speaker 2: keep whipping myself because then if you pull back and

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Speaker 2: what they talk about in the book, and you look

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Speaker 2: at where you've what you've built, or how you in

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Speaker 2: your career, where you've got to, and you know with

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Speaker 2: what we've built with Kick, I look back and I think, Okay,

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Speaker 2: the reason I have got here is because of the whip.

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Speaker 2: So if I put the whip down and I stop

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Speaker 2: fueling myself through all of these kind of horrible trolling

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Speaker 2: comments online, constantly trying to be better and better and better,

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Speaker 2: I won't have any drive and therefore I won't be

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Speaker 2: able to continue to grow. Then it's been working through

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Speaker 2: like that. Whip is not the reason that I have

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Speaker 2: got to where I am today and unpacking that, but

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Speaker 2: it has been really really hard to do that. And

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Speaker 2: it also depends, like I feel like our confidence ebbs

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Speaker 2: and flows, and I know when you think of like

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Speaker 2: the most kind of corny Pinterest quote, it's like confidence

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Speaker 2: is not a destination. It's a journey. I know, and

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Speaker 2: I can see like the clouds around it. But it's true, right,

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Speaker 2: you can never ever ever stop working on yourself, and

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Speaker 2: so sometimes I will go through stages where I feel

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Speaker 2: tempted to go and look at those comments and take

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Speaker 2: them on board. But I have done a lot of

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Speaker 2: work on myself to now have so many tools to

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Speaker 2: not go and do that and know that how hard

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Speaker 2: I work has nothing to do with how worthy I

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Speaker 2: am as a person, and that I'm you know, capable

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Speaker 2: of deserving of things. That's been really hard to work through,

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Speaker 2: but that has been so important in truly believing like

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Speaker 2: within myself to be able to kind of get through

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Speaker 2: that stuff. And I definitely still have self doubt, but

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Speaker 2: it does not control me like it used to.

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Speaker 1: Like that sounds absolutely phenomenal what you've done, Laura. That

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Speaker 1: is such a huge change to achieve. I don't know you,

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Speaker 1: but I've feel proud, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, thank you. It's very kind.

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Speaker 1: How then do you know when enough is enough? At work?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you're like this amazing mascot for

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Speaker 1: well being. You know, that's that's who you are, that's

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Speaker 1: what kick is. Yet you're a business owner, you're a CEO,

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Speaker 1: you do obviously have an amazing work ethic, and you've

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Speaker 1: got friends and family. How do you know then when

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Speaker 1: enough is enough on a day to day or week

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Speaker 1: to week basis, well, I have.

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Speaker 2: To start by saying sometimes I don't and this is

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Speaker 2: something I'm absolutely working through. So I do not have

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Speaker 2: this down pattern perfect. But for me, what I have

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Speaker 2: learned is when I don't stop and I don't have

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Speaker 2: anything outside of work, first of all, like the impact

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Speaker 2: that that then puts me back in a fear driven

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Speaker 2: mindset because one hundred and ten percent of my focus

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Speaker 2: is on work. And so my full fulfillment in my

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Speaker 2: life is based on what happens, you know, with kick

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Speaker 2: and running a business, like the one thing that is

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Speaker 2: guaranteed is that stuff's going to go wrong, Like that's

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Speaker 2: the one thing. There's something else is guaranteed. There's gonna

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Speaker 2: there's gon to be things that you're going to come

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Speaker 2: up against that you maybe have never sold before or

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Speaker 2: are really really going to challenge you. Like that is guaranteed,

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Speaker 2: right as we know in anyone that's a business owner

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Speaker 2: will also know that. And so because of that, if

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Speaker 2: I have all of my eggs in the basket of work,

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Speaker 2: I am them operating knowing that I have to keep

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Speaker 2: going and going and going, because this is the only

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Speaker 2: way I'm going to get fulfillment and if something goes wrong,

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Speaker 2: controlling your emotional reaction within yourself and they're not going

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Speaker 2: down a path of for me, really getting deep in

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Speaker 2: that self doubt mindset, but also a shame mindset in

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Speaker 2: that you know something might go wrong not go the

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Speaker 2: way that I wanted it to. I now am much

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Speaker 2: better at reframing into you know, this didn't go the

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Speaker 2: way I wanted it to. Here's my learnings. I'm moving

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Speaker 2: on instead of saying I am stupid, or I am dumb,

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Speaker 2: or I'm not good enough, because what happens when you're

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Speaker 2: in that mindset or I have found, is that it

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Speaker 2: is so hard to get out of it. And once

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Speaker 2: you spiral it might start in one element of your

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Speaker 2: your work or your job, it will spread into every

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Speaker 2: element of your life and less you and your work,

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Speaker 2: and then it will start to spread out psy cancer

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Speaker 2: unless you take control of it. And so for me,

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Speaker 2: I know that if I have all of my eggs

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Speaker 2: in the basket of work and I work every single

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Speaker 2: day and don't take any breaks, that's kind of where

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Speaker 2: I will be end up. And that's not the best

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Speaker 2: thing for me, for the company, for anyone that I

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Speaker 2: work with, because sometimes, like you know, back this has

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Speaker 2: not happened for a long time, but I've had spirals

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Speaker 2: that have lasted like six seven months, and that is

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Speaker 2: so much time to lose because when you don't believe

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Speaker 2: in yourself and you're trying to move a company forward,

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Speaker 2: it's very, very, very difficult. And so that's been one

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Speaker 2: of the biggest things. And then the other thing is

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Speaker 2: is understanding. So having things outside of work is very important,

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Speaker 2: but then understanding as well. If I push push, push,

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to be able to show up as

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Speaker 2: my best self the next day. My brain doesn't work

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Speaker 2: as well. I get brain fog. I find it really

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Speaker 2: hard to focus on deep work. I find it really

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Speaker 2: hard to actually step back and actually work out what

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Speaker 2: am I working on that's impactful, because you get so

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Speaker 2: stuck in the weeds and just on this kind of

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Speaker 2: wheel of got to keep going, got to keep going,

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Speaker 2: and then you're actually again not making impact. That's what's important, right,

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Speaker 2: and so it's stepping back and being able to do that.

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Speaker 2: But it's definitely something like, as I say this, I

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Speaker 2: don't always get it right.

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Speaker 1: When you recognize that you're in a spiral. What has

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Speaker 1: worked for you in the past in terms of breaking

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Speaker 1: out of that, either quickly or slowly.

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Speaker 2: I think it's understanding shame has been one of the

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Speaker 2: biggest things Brene Brown. I reference her so much. She's

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Speaker 2: just incredible. Her work is for me personally, has made

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Speaker 2: such an impact. She has a book. It's got a

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Speaker 2: red cover. It's essentially all about different emotions and the

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Speaker 2: definitions Atlas of the Heart, so you know all of them.

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Speaker 2: Amazing that I highly recommend that book to anyone that's

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Speaker 2: listening because the way she defines and kind of speaks

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Speaker 2: through shame really helped me understand what it is. And

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Speaker 2: I think when you understand what it is, it is

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Speaker 2: easier to call it out when it's happening. And so

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Speaker 2: what I sometimes I don't do this, but what I

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Speaker 2: try to do and what I find really works, is

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Speaker 2: trying to step out from the situation and separate from myself,

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Speaker 2: Like the way I'm talking to myself that I'm not

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Speaker 2: good enough, because I know how it feels. And when

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Speaker 2: I start feeling that way, I'm like, Okay, hang on,

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Speaker 2: I need to look like what's going on in my brain?

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Speaker 2: What's going on in my mind, and I'm able to

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Speaker 2: take those thoughts and almost like visualize separating them from

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Speaker 2: myself and then identifying that, Okay, I have not all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden lost my entire brain capacity forgotten how

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Speaker 2: to do my job and have just become, you know,

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Speaker 2: not be able to do anything that has not happened. Now,

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Speaker 2: while that's what I'm telling myself in my head, that

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Speaker 2: has not happened, this is actually shame and I need

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Speaker 2: to get out of this, and then I will reframe

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Speaker 2: it away from you know, I am not good enough

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Speaker 2: to This didn't go the way that I wanted. Here's

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Speaker 2: my learnings. I'm going to move forward. As I said,

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Speaker 2: it's easier said than done, and sometimes it does take

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Speaker 2: a few days to be able to kind of separate that.

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Speaker 2: But it's kind it's coming back to focusing on the present,

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Speaker 2: because when you're doing that, you're just caught up in

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Speaker 2: you know, what's happened in the past, and you're making

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Speaker 2: stories up in your head. Trying to come back and

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Speaker 2: cent to yourself and come back to the present and

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Speaker 2: taking those thoughts out from that and working through them.

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Speaker 1: How do you know when you're in a spiral like

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Speaker 1: can you think of a time when I don't know

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Speaker 1: you were last in it, or when it was particularly

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Speaker 1: hard to get out of.

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Speaker 2: How do you know how it feels in my body?

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Speaker 2: I feel my chest is tight, I feel sad, and

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Speaker 2: I feel like really demotivated and maybe not depressed per se,

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Speaker 2: but just really down. And I know that that's not

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Speaker 2: how I usually feel. Like our body tells us. We know,

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Speaker 2: like how you feel is everything, And that's something that

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Speaker 2: in terms of going back to the advice that Jennie

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Speaker 2: has shared for me and what I've learned the most

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Speaker 2: from her, like that's one of the biggest things, is

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Speaker 2: going back to how do you feel? Like it's one

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Speaker 2: of the questions that comes up out of almost anything

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Speaker 2: that you're kind of working through, and so I know

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Speaker 2: what that feeling is and I can identify that, and

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Speaker 2: then it's yet working out how to get out of it.

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Speaker 1: You spoke about not having all the balls in the

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Speaker 1: one basket in the work basket. What actions do you

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Speaker 1: take where you feel like it is leaning that way? Like,

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Speaker 1: what are the steps that you've taken in the past

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Speaker 1: to be more balanced? And I guess reduce the chance

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Speaker 1: of burnout and being in one of these virals.

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Speaker 2: At first, it's acknowledging that all of my eggs are

433
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 2: in the work basket, which I'm in. Again, for anyone listening,

434
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 2: it's pretty hard to do that, and especially when sometimes

435
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 2: I think we get in this almost marta mindset of

436
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 2: I have to all my eggs have to be in

437
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 2: this basket? Do they? Why are you just telling yourself

438
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 2: that probably that's usually what the answer is, But I

439
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 2: think we have to do this, well why do you?

440
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 2: Probably not, You're just in this spiral, And so I

441
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 2: kind of step back and I look at, okay, what

442
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 2: and especially for me as well, like one of my

443
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 2: kind of hobbies per se is running, but running is

444
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,440
Speaker 2: also a big part of my work and making content,

445
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 2: and so I've had to also be quite honest with

446
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 2: myself because sometimes I'm like, oh, no, I've got my running,

447
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,439
Speaker 2: but it's like, well, no, running is also technically a

448
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 2: part of my work because you know, we've got the

449
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 2: Kick growing program and Kick and all the content that

450
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 2: I create out of that. So I step back and

451
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 2: I think, Okay, well, what am I doing outside of

452
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 2: work to fill my cut back up? And one of

453
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,920
Speaker 2: the things I often find will kind of go off

454
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:27,679
Speaker 2: and I don't know if this is the same for you,

455
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,439
Speaker 2: that I will kind of first just put in the

456
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 2: bin per se is social time because I think I

457
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,640
Speaker 2: don't have time to do that. And you also sometimes

458
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 2: when you feel exhausted, maybe because of work or whatever,

459
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 2: it might be the last thing you want to do

460
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 2: is go out for dinner or go and speak to

461
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 2: more people because you just want to be by yourself.

462
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,479
Speaker 2: But you actually need to get out and do that.

463
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 2: And for me, it's been really really acknowledging that that

464
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 2: social time that fills my cup like that is recharging.

465
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,639
Speaker 2: Even though it's with people and solo time is very important,

466
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 2: connection is also a way to fill like up that

467
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:03,879
Speaker 2: sometimes I think when we get caught up in our

468
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 2: own heads, we just put it off and cancel it

469
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 2: because we don't think that we can show up. But

470
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,400
Speaker 2: that's actually what helps well for me recharge my batteries.

471
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 2: So it's looking at, Okay, what am I doing, and

472
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 2: it's what am I spending time on. It Something that

473
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 2: I always love to think about when it comes to

474
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 2: hobbies or just things that can take my mind off

475
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 2: just the grind of the day, is what have I

476
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 2: done lately? Where I didn't look at the time, and

477
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 2: time just passed by and I didn't even realize, and

478
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,199
Speaker 2: I wasn't thinking about like, oh, I need to be

479
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 2: productive after this, or you know, I'm only going to

480
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 2: do this for an hour. I didn't even notice, and

481
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 2: the day passed. I mean, I don't do a lot

482
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 2: of it, but when I've done pottery before, that's something

483
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 2: that happens. When I spend time with kids, like often,

484
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 2: that's also what happens painting and reading, and so I

485
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 2: try to get those things back in my life. But

486
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 2: it's important to acknowledge as well that sometimes there are

487
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 2: periods where work will take a lot from you. And

488
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 2: it's accepting that and honoring that, because I think when

489
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 2: we try and fight it it can just make it worse.

490
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 2: But just trying to make sure we're really honest with ourselves.

491
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 2: If we say I don't have time to do anything

492
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 2: for myself, it's really asking like why and if you

493
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 2: can trying to do something otherwise you won't show up

494
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 2: one hundred percent when you get to work. Anyway, we will.

495
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 1: Be back with Laura soon, and when we return, Laura

496
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 1: shares the rituals and habits that keep her from overloading

497
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 1: on work, why it's crucial to avoid responding from an

498
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 1: emotional state, and her top tip for starting the week

499
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 1: strong to ensure you actually get things done. If you're

500
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: looking for more tips to improve the way you work

501
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 1: can live. I write a short weekly newsletter that contains

502
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 1: tactics I've discovered that have helped me personally. You can

503
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: sign up for that at Amantha dot com. That's Amantha

504
00:24:52,920 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 1: dot com. I am curious as to how then you

505
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: stay disciplined with making sure that you do have time

506
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: for these other non work activities, because I think you

507
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 1: know and I say this as someone who I think

508
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: could do with working less hours. It's kind of it's

509
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:17,719
Speaker 1: easy to say and it's easy to know, but then

510
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: it's hard to do. And so I can share with

511
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: you something that I have found quite useful because I

512
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: agree with social connection. It's such an energizer. And I've

513
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: got my family. I've got my beautiful daughter, a beautiful partner,

514
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 1: and they're amazing, but friends are so important. I'm an

515
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 1: only child, and so my friends are like family. And

516
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,199
Speaker 1: I have a little ritual that I generally do it

517
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,679
Speaker 1: on Mondays where I will just send a bunch of

518
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 1: messages to my friends and get social catch ups in

519
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 1: the diary, and I know that if I've got at

520
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 1: least one or two friend catch ups that might be

521
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: a walk, or it might be a meal or something else,

522
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: then that's a good week. I'm filling my social cup.

523
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: For you, Like, do you have any rituals or kind

524
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: of little hacks like that almost keep you honest away

525
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: from just overleading on work.

526
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 2: Oh, that's such a good thing to do, especially at

527
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: the start of the week. I think for me, it's

528
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 2: scheduling in at the start of the week, Like that's

529
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 2: the biggest hack that we can do for ourselves, because

530
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 2: if you don't, you never set yourself up for success,

531
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,199
Speaker 2: because then you don't have any boundaries kind of in

532
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 2: your day. You haven't set your routine up, and then

533
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 2: you will every time. I mean, it's the same thing

534
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 2: with moving your body, right. If you don't prepare, if

535
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 2: you wake up in the morning and you don't know

536
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,959
Speaker 2: what workout you're going to do, you haven't got your

537
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 2: clothes out, you haven't really allowed yourself enough time, and

538
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 2: you haven't thought through it and planned. It is so

539
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 2: easy to be like, oh it's too hard, I'm just

540
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 2: going to keep sleeping or I'm just going to hit

541
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 2: to work early or whatever it might be. And it's

542
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 2: the same thing right with everything with planning. So for

543
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 2: me with movement, it's making sure I've worked out where

544
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 2: that's going to fit in my week, because if I haven't,

545
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 2: the week will just override it. And doing that at

546
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 2: the start of the week. And then also the social thing.

547
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 2: I try and make sure I have one kind of

548
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 2: social connection thing during the week and then one on

549
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 2: the weekend as well. And it's making the effort to

550
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 2: put that in right and sometimes I know and I can. Again,

551
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 2: it comes back to how I feel in my body,

552
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 2: like when I start feeling down and tired and that

553
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 2: feeling like close to burnout. I look at a hang on.

554
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 2: If I look back at the past month or whatever,

555
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 2: I haven't done the things that I know can help

556
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 2: me work through this. So I don't always do it,

557
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 2: but that's a really good hack.

558
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 1: I want to pick up on what you said before

559
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 1: about Sydney, where you have to go to Sydney, No,

560
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 1: you get to go to Sydney. Tell me about that.

561
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean that's perspective. Is everything right? And I

562
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 2: think when we get caught up in the busyness of like,

563
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 2: how many times do you ask someone how they're going

564
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 2: and they say busy? And I really try not to

565
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 2: do that because I like focusing on perspective and then

566
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 2: coming back to gratitude. When I focus on gratitude, I'm

567
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 2: able to be so much more present, and I'm just

568
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 2: able to show up in such a better way than

569
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 2: I do when I think, you know, the world is

570
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 2: happening to me, instead of being like, no, I'm happening

571
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 2: to the world. Like we're in control of a lot

572
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 2: more than we think, and so so often we think, oh,

573
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 2: I have to go to this meeting, I have to

574
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 2: go to work today, I have to go to Sydney,

575
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,479
Speaker 2: and it's reframing that to no, I get to go

576
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 2: to Sydney, and yes, you know, flying in and out

577
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 2: in a day might be tiring, but what an amazing

578
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 2: opportunity to be able to go and do whatever I'm

579
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 2: doing there. And then I think, Okay, well, it's pretty

580
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 2: awesome that someone you know cares about me enough to

581
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 2: want me to go to Sydney and meet them. Because

582
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 2: then when I go, I'm not going in this headspace

583
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 2: of I don't want to be here. I'm exhausted, I'm tired,

584
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 2: because that's going to impact the entire day. I'm going

585
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 2: to have a horrible experience one million percent.

586
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about something you You wrote

587
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: this really great post on LinkedIn, which I think it

588
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: was something like ten things I now know to be

589
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: true as a CEO, something like that. I'm paraphrasing, and

590
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: one of the things you wrote. I'll read it out

591
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: because I really loved it, and I'm curious as to

592
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: how how you apply this day to day. You said,

593
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: responding in an emotional state is never a good idea.

594
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,479
Speaker 1: Always take a moment, a few minutes, an hour a day,

595
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: depending on how you feel and the response within your body,

596
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: before you respond, Wait until you can get into a

597
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: win win mindset instead of you versus the other person mindset.

598
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 2: Can you tell me about that?

599
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: How did you learn that lesson? Oh?

600
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I've learned it many, many, many times. I

601
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 2: think when things happen, it might be that I don't know,

602
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 2: someone responded to something in a way that you didn't

603
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 2: feel was fair, or you're in a negotiation and it's

604
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 2: not feeling whatever it might be. Usually because it feels unfair, right,

605
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 2: That's why we respond in that way, and the first response,

606
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 2: like our automatic response is oh, I need to tell them,

607
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 2: like why they've made me feel this way and why

608
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 2: they're wrong and etc. There is no way, like in

609
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 2: the art of negotiation or just generally approaching a conversation,

610
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 2: that if you approach a conversation like that, you were

611
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 2: going to get a good outcome because you're going in

612
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 2: wanting to I suppose you're not really wanting to the

613
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,959
Speaker 2: other person, but that's kind of how you're approaching it,

614
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 2: because what you really want if you step back, and

615
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 2: it always comes back to this stow, which is again

616
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 2: in the moment. And that's why I kind of said

617
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 2: if it takes Amitted an hour or a day, because

618
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 2: sometimes things will trigger us into a really intense emotional response,

619
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 2: never ever, ever, ever respond in that time. It's I

620
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 2: don't know any time in my life when I've responded

621
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 2: in that while I'm in that feeling that it's been

622
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 2: a good outcome, or if we have got a good outcome,

623
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 2: it's just taken so long to get there. So step

624
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 2: out and think, Okay, yes, this person has really maybe

625
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 2: it's a contract negotiation, they've sent things through that have

626
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: really offended you, like they don't see my value, I'm

627
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 2: being taken advantage of, etcetera, etcetera. So it's stepping back

628
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 2: and being like, Okay, they have responded in that way,

629
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 2: so how I would have responded like that's but I'm

630
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 2: not going to take it personally. I'm going to come

631
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 2: back to what do I want to get out of

632
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 2: this and what do they want to get out of it?

633
00:30:58,400 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 2: And how can I respond in a way to pre

634
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 2: that's closer to that outcome? That will often help the

635
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 2: other person to bring down their guard, because if you

636
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 2: go in with your guard and you're in this attack mode,

637
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,719
Speaker 2: they are going to straight get on the defense. And

638
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 2: negotiating with anyone or having a conversation when someone is

639
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 2: defensive is I mean, we've all been in those situations.

640
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 2: It's really difficult. Is very very rare you will get

641
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 2: anywhere right.

642
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: How do you, I guess, almost take yourself down off

643
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: that cliff's edge when you're feeling like that. To calm

644
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: yourself down, whether it's over a period of hours or

645
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: a day or more, I.

646
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 2: Let myself feel the feelings. I think that's really important.

647
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 2: I think often we feel or we're told that we

648
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: have to. You know, we can't get upset, we can't

649
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 2: feel angry. They're fine. Like, you have to honor your emotions,

650
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 2: and often when something triggers you, it's just a I

651
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 2: suppose indication of something you really care about about yourself.

652
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 2: So I let myself feel the emotion, and depending on

653
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 2: how hard I'm feeling it, then I just I know

654
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 2: if I'm still like, if I'm still feeling that for

655
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 2: a long time, I know that I have to wait

656
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 2: a little bit longer. I find a good night's sleep

657
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 2: will help me get out of that emotional state. Most

658
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 2: of the time, but I wait until I don't feel

659
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 2: super super triggered and I suppose attacked by it and

660
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 2: emotional about it. I let those emotions. I honor them,

661
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 2: I let them pass there. Of course, there are times

662
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 2: when it doesn't pass, and that's when I actually be like, okay,

663
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 2: we need to move forward, Like coming back to again,

664
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 2: what is the outcome that they want? Like what's the

665
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 2: best outcome for them? What's the best outcome for me?

666
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 2: Like a win win mindset, and then like applying it

667
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 2: to that, and it is it's talking to people about it,

668
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 2: talking it through always helps because I think sometimes we

669
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 2: can get in our head and we start making up

670
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,959
Speaker 2: all of these assumptions and all of these stories. You know,

671
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 2: we always say, like the truth is, there's one person's side,

672
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 2: the other person's side, and then there's the truth, right,

673
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 2: and sometimes too, what might happen? They might have triggered

674
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 2: something in you, and then you will then make up

675
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 2: this entire thing in your head that makes you really

676
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 2: angry and it keeps that emotion, But none of that

677
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 2: has happened. It's all made up in your head based

678
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 2: on how you think that personal respond or assumptions. So

679
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 2: it's just being able to realize that if that's lasting longer,

680
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 2: what that is, step out of yourself and then work

681
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 2: through what am I trying to get out of this?

682
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 2: And what do they want? But it is, as I said,

683
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 2: it is much harder said than done, isn't it.

684
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: I want to finish with asking. I feel like you're

685
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: the sort of person you know, given how well well

686
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: read you are and how thoughtful you are, that you

687
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: know perhaps has different mantras or sayings or ways of

688
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: being that perhaps a friend of mine at different times

689
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: in your life. I'd love to know right now. What

690
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: is a mantra or a quote or something like that

691
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: that is serving you particularly well right now?

692
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 2: Oh, that's such a good thing. I think for me,

693
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 2: I'm still working through as I said, like working on

694
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 2: confidence and removing self doubt is still something that I'm

695
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 2: working on. It's a journey. So the thing that right

696
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: now that I always come back to is that I

697
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 2: am good enough and I'm safe, and that really helps me.

698
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 2: Actually that I am safe part because I think I

699
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 2: don't know what it is, but it just makes me

700
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 2: feel calm when I say it and I believe it,

701
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 2: which is you know what we want to do when

702
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 2: we have a mantra.

703
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 1: Definitely, Laura, It's made such a joy having you on.

704
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing this last hour with me.

705
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you so much for having me.

706
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: I hope you love this chat with Laura as much

707
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: as I did, and I know some of it really

708
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 1: hit close to home, such as the need to be liked.

709
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: If you want to learn more about Laura, I highly

710
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:39,240
Speaker 1: recommend checking out her podcast, Kickpod or the kick app.

711
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: I've put links to both of those in the show notes.

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00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 1: If you like today's show, make sure you hit follow

713
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: on your podcast app to be alerted when new episodes drop.

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00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: How I Work was recorded on the traditional land of

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00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: the Warrangery people, part of the cool And Nation