1 00:00:01,240 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: Bunjelung Cargoton woman from Gadigl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:10,799 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torres 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: Rate island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 2: Just a quick warning on this one. This topic deals 8 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 2: with some distressing content, including descriptions of domestic violence. If 9 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 2: you are anyone you know needs help, you can call 10 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 2: one eight hundred respect. Good morning and welcome to the 11 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 2: Daily os It's Monday, the fifth of June. 12 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 3: I'm zara, I'm sam. 13 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 2: Ben Robert Smith has lost his defamation case against the 14 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 2: nine newspapers. 15 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: Ben Robert Smith's defamation case has been dismissed by a 16 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: federal court judge. 17 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 3: It is a devastating blow for the decorated former soldier 18 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 3: after one of the biggest and most expensive court battles 19 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 3: in at in history. 20 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 2: This has been an absolutely huge story both for the 21 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 2: media and for the country, and it really raises significant 22 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 2: questions about how our media works and how our defense 23 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 2: organizations work too. We're going to get into it in 24 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 2: today's deep dive, but first the headlines. 25 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 3: Hundreds of people have died in a major train crash 26 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,119 Speaker 3: in India. Three trains, two passenger trains and one freight 27 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 3: train were involved in the collision and it's one of 28 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 3: the worst rail disasters in Indian history. A day of 29 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 3: mourning has been announced in the state of Adisha in 30 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 3: the east of the country that's where the incident occurred. 31 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 3: While authorities continue to search for survivors, the chief of 32 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 3: Fire Services said they don't expect to rescue anyone else alive. 33 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 2: Roger Cook is set to take the reins as the 34 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 2: Premiere of Western Australia after Mark McGowan left Parliament on Friday. 35 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 2: Cook was McGowan's deputy and will now lead a labor 36 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 2: government that has a significant popularity rating among West Australians. 37 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 3: A new report from the Cancer Council has found rates 38 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 3: of smoking cigarettes amongst fourteen to seventeen year olds in 39 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 3: Australia has increased in the last four years. That's the 40 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 3: first increase in more than twenty years. The authors believe 41 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 3: there to be a direct link between an increase in 42 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 3: cigarette use and the wildscale popularity of vapes, some of 43 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 3: which themselves contain high levels of nicotine. 44 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,119 Speaker 2: And the good news, Matilda's midfielder Alex Chittiak has won 45 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 2: the Julie Dollan Medal as the best player in this 46 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 2: year's A League Women's competition. Chittiac won the award despite 47 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 2: playing only thirteen of Melbourne Victory's twenty games this season. 48 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:41,519 Speaker 2: The twenty four year old is currently playing in the 49 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 2: US and will be hoping to feature for the Matilda's 50 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 2: at this year's World Cup. Ben Robert Smith has lost 51 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 2: his defamation case against nine newspapers. Now, this story about 52 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 2: Ben Roberts Smith is a really remarkable one. He was 53 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 2: a character who was held up and revered in Australia's 54 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 2: military history and generally across the country. He was celebrated 55 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 2: as a war hero. 56 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 3: That's a pretty big shift for Ben Robert Smith. Why 57 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 3: was he once so revered? 58 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 2: So the reason that Ben Roberts Smith was so commemorated, 59 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 2: and I mean, if you've been to the Australian War 60 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 2: Memorial in Canberra, you would have seen this massive display 61 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 2: of his uniform and it is this centerpiece at the 62 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 2: War Memorial and the reason that he's commemorated in such 63 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 2: a big way there is that he's a former corporal 64 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 2: in the Special Air Service, which is the SAS, who 65 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: served in Afghanistan. And crucially he received the Victoria Cross, 66 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 2: which is the highest Australian military award for acts of 67 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 2: bravery in wartime. And it's not just in the military 68 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 2: that he's had this reputation. After he retired from the 69 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: Armed Services, he became a consultant before being appointed as 70 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: the general manager of Channel seven in Queensland. It was 71 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 2: also lauded for his personal life and he was even 72 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 2: named Father of the Year in twenty thirteen. 73 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 3: Ben Roberts Smith is a great Australian hero. 74 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: He is. 75 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 2: Someone that all Australians look up to in every respect. 76 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 3: So this is a man with a very high standing 77 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 3: in Australian society. 78 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 2: What happened next, well, there were a series of articles 79 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 2: that were published by the Nine Papers that I remember 80 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 2: at the time. They were absolutely mind blowing, you know, 81 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 2: the things that they said had never been printed before, 82 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 2: and there was this real sense of shift in the 83 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: way that the media was reporting things. And just quickly, 84 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 2: when we talk about the Nine newspapers. Here we're talking 85 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 2: about the Sydney Morning Herald, The Age and the Canberra Times, 86 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 2: which was at the time owned by Nine Entertainment. The 87 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 2: articles themselves alleged that Robert Smith had been involved in 88 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 2: unlawfully killing as many as six people while he was 89 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: deployed in Afghanistan. The articles also alleged that Robert Smith 90 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 2: punched a woman he was reportedly having an affair with. 91 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 2: Now he denies all of those allegations and claims that 92 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 2: they harmed his reputation and again crucially he claims that 93 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 2: they were false. 94 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 3: And we know that when someone feels that way about 95 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 3: statements made about them in the media, they have grounds 96 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 3: potentially to sue for defamation. Ye give me a sense 97 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 3: of how that works in our courts. 98 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 2: So under Australian law, a person can sue if they 99 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: believe that published material has harmed their reputation. And I 100 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 2: mean we've spoken about this in a number of settings. 101 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 2: Australia has really strict defamation laws and so we've seen 102 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 2: a number of cases in front of the courts that 103 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 2: is about the role of the media and the people 104 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 2: that the media is writing about. Defamation is almost always 105 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 2: a civil matter, And I just want to linger on 106 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,119 Speaker 2: this point because when we're talking about this Ben Roberts 107 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 2: Smith case, we are talking about a civil case and 108 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 2: not a criminal one. So in a civil case, the 109 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 2: person who has brought the case is typically seeking what 110 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 2: we can damages, so money usually from the defendant, and 111 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 2: defamation cases can be defended in a variety of ways. 112 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: But the case that we're talking about today with Ben 113 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 2: Robert Smith and the nine newspapers, the nine newspapers opted 114 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 2: for what's called the truth defense, which, as the name 115 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 2: would suggest, means that the journalists were arguing that their 116 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 2: articles could not have been defamatory because they were true, 117 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 2: and that was the defense that they mounted. The judge 118 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 2: then had to decide whether the allegations in question occurred 119 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 2: on what we call the balance of probabilities. And Sam, 120 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 2: you are the legal brain among us, can you just 121 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 2: explain what that means. 122 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 3: It's basically whether it's more likely that it happened or not. 123 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 3: And it's different to in the criminal case, where you 124 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 3: have the beyond reasonable doubt spar and which threshold is higher. Definitely, 125 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 3: the criminal one of beyond reasonable doubt that needs to 126 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 3: have no doubt in the mind of the jury or 127 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 3: the judge. However, the trial is formatted that that crime committed. 128 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 2: Okay. But in this context we are talking about a 129 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 2: civil case, and it was one that started in twenty 130 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 2: twenty one but was interrupted by COVID. This was an 131 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 2: extraordinary trial. There was a lot of media attention on 132 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 2: it for obvious reasons. And what we saw was several 133 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 2: former soldiers testifying. That included shadow Defense Minister Andrew Hasty, 134 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 2: who said that there was a quote widespread view among 135 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 2: soldiers that Robert Smith was a bully. Now, I'll run 136 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: through quickly some of the other witnesses, because there were 137 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 2: many and most of them were anonymous. There was a 138 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 2: soldier known in the case as Person one who said 139 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:39,239 Speaker 2: that Robert Smith bullied him and on one occasion threatened 140 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 2: him with quote a bullet in the back of the 141 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 2: head if his performance didn't improve. There was another soldier 142 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 2: who said that Robert Smith shot an elderly man. There 143 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 2: was another one who told the court that he saw 144 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 2: Robert Smith kill a man with a prosthetic leg during 145 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 2: a raid on a compound. And another key witness told 146 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 2: the court that he saw Robert Smith kick and unarmed 147 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 2: and handcuffed man off a cliff. All in all, the 148 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 2: nine newspapers argued that Robert Smith committed or contributed to 149 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 2: six murders of Afghan people outside of combat situations, so 150 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 2: outside of the normal kind of confines of war. Robert 151 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 2: Smith denied these allegations and he said any people that 152 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 2: he killed were killed lawfully and in battle. 153 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 3: And then away from Afghanistan. There was, of course, the 154 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 3: other claims that Robert Smith was violent towards a woman 155 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 3: who he was having an affair with. What was revealed 156 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 3: in court about that well. 157 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 2: The woman in question claimed that Robert Smith punched her 158 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 2: after a function at Parliament House back in twenty eighteen. 159 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 2: She told the court about her thinking around the time 160 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 2: and that she told Robert Smith she couldn't remember the 161 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 2: incident the next day because she was afraid of. 162 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 3: What he would do if she didn't say that. 163 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 2: She added that Robert Smith replied, quote, good girl, you 164 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 2: hurt yourself when you fell over. The court was also 165 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 2: told that Robert Smith had paid a private investigator to 166 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 2: follow the woman to an abortion clinic when she became 167 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 2: pregnant and forced her to take two pregnancy tests in 168 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 2: front of him. The private investigator who also spoke as 169 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 2: a witness in the trial, so that he stopped working 170 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 2: for Robert Smith after he was asked to send threatening 171 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 2: messages to two soldiers. Robert Smith has denied all of 172 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:20,439 Speaker 2: these allegations. 173 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,079 Speaker 3: This case has been going on since twenty twenty one. 174 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 3: There's been so much to get through and there's been 175 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 3: delays because of COVID and the availability of witnesses. Talk 176 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 3: me through what was eventually found. 177 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 2: So last week Justice Anthony Bissanko found many, but not all, 178 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 2: of the claims made by the nine newspapers about those 179 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,959 Speaker 2: killings in Afghanistan were quote substantially true. When it comes 180 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 2: to that separate alleged assault in Canberra, Justice Bosanko was 181 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 2: not quote sufficiently satisfied that the assault occurred, but he was, however, 182 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 2: satisfied that contextual truth had been established, which basically means 183 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 2: he was satisfied that the claim wasn't defamatory. Ben Robert 184 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 2: Smith resigned as the general manager of Channel seven in 185 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 2: Queensland shortly after the verdict was handed down. 186 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 3: Okay, so the judge in the case ultimately found that 187 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 3: the nine newspapers did not defame Ben Robert Smith, but 188 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 3: that doesn't necessarily mean that he's guilty of a crime. 189 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 3: What's going to happen now. 190 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I think this is when that distinction between 191 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 2: civil and criminal trials is really important. While the defamation 192 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 2: trial focused on allegations that would constitute war crimes, Robert 193 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 2: Smith himself was not on trial and hasn't been charged 194 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 2: with any criminal offenses. He was actually the person that 195 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 2: brought this case against the nine newspapers, not the other 196 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 2: way around. But separately, the AFP is conducting a broad 197 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 2: criminal investigation into allegations of war crimes in Afghanistan, but 198 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 2: not specifically into Robert Smith. According to twenty twenty, had 199 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 2: revealed that Robert Smith had been interviewed as a suspect 200 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 2: in that trial, but was still not one hundred percent 201 00:10:58,120 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 2: sury of the details of that investigation. 202 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 3: Zara the Dally Oos has covered a number of stories 203 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 3: where journalists have ensued because of claims that they've made 204 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 3: in the media, and it is not every day that 205 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 3: you hear about journalists who actually win in court. It's 206 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 3: actually pretty rare. Yeah, And normally the way these cases 207 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 3: pan out is a settlement has reached between the parties. 208 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 3: It's normally financial normally involved some sort of apology or 209 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 3: attraction of a statement, but it never really gets to 210 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 3: the judgment stage. What does this verdict mean for the 211 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 3: media in a wider sense? 212 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 2: I think that this verdict was a real turning point. 213 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 2: As I said before, Australia has really strict defamation laws, 214 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 2: which means that we very rarely see the type of 215 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 2: verdicts that we did, and especially on such a high 216 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 2: profile case. I mean, if you watch Nick mackenzie, who 217 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:45,959 Speaker 2: was one of the nine papers, who was one of 218 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 2: the journalists who was named in the case. After the 219 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 2: verdicts was handed down, it was truly something to behold. 220 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 2: He tweeted a single word, which was justice, and it 221 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 2: really felt like there was this camaraderie among kind of 222 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 2: the journalism profession of all outlets really coming out to 223 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,839 Speaker 2: support the journalists and their work and the work more 224 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 2: generally of journalism in uncovering the truth, which you know, 225 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 2: they fought the truth defense and in this case they won. 226 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us on the Daily OS this morning. 227 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 3: If you learned something from today's episode, don't forget to 228 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 3: hit subscribe, so there's a TA episode waiting for you 229 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 3: every morning. We'll be back again tomorrow. Until then have 230 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 3: a great day.