1 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Next, a monthly podcast from the Female 2 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: Athlete Project. 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 2: Each episode, futurist. 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: And former athlete Ruanda Brown joins Bes and Eye to 5 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 1: export what is changing in women's sport before it hits 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: the headlines. We shine a light on the pockets of 7 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: the future already here, the signals of changes that are 8 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: quietly or not so quietly, reshaping women's sport in the present. 9 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: Not to predict what's coming, but to notice what's already 10 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: in motion, and then to ask, so what now? 11 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 2: What? 12 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: What might this mean for women's sport from here? What 13 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: kind of women's sport futures do we want to inhabit? 14 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: And how can we widen the choices available to us today? 15 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to the first ever episode of the Next ROUNDA. 16 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 3: Brown Land so happy to be here, excited. 17 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 2: This is cool. 18 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: It's nice when something you've been formulating actually comes to life. 19 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: And you've already been a guest on The Female Athlete Project, 20 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: which we'll chat a little bit about. But before Bes 21 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: and I reintro ourselves, do you want to tell us 22 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: a little bit about yourself and how you've ended up 23 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: in this line of work. 24 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 3: We'll make that a short answer, so I am an 25 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 3: academically trained and practicing futurist, which sounds absolutely made up, 26 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 3: but it is a real thing. I've been in this 27 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 3: space for about a decade now, working as an in 28 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 3: house and a consulting futurist, and it's kind of an 29 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 3: interesting pathway here. So for the first time in not 30 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 3: many conversations, my sporting background is relevant here. But it's 31 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 3: like a three waves of my career. First was sport, 32 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 3: playing sport, working in game development background, playing cricket. Then 33 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 3: I hit that threshold with sport where it was like, 34 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 3: do I want any superannuation by the time that I'm. 35 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 2: Forty great question or not? 36 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 3: And back then I'm now forty one. I decided that 37 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 3: I did, so I kind of exited sport, got into 38 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 3: corporate work, and then hit a threshold as I do 39 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 3: with corporate work, and part of it was just this 40 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 3: constant questioning of says, who who says the future has 41 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 3: to be like that? But also I have a really hardwired, 42 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 3: hypervigilant kind of brain of always paying attention to what's 43 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 3: changing around me. So it's almost like I became a 44 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 3: futurist because I had too. It's like the perfect combination 45 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 3: of interest in change, wanting to know what's changing, but 46 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 3: then also pushing back and saying, well, who who says 47 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 3: that the future happens that way? So managed to study 48 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 3: a master's and have been working in this space ever 49 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 3: since with a whole bunch of different clients. So in 50 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:48,559 Speaker 3: the last couple of months I've worked with sport farmers, engineers, 51 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 3: heads of HR, mostly about helping them make sense of 52 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 3: change so that they can do something about that. Come Monday. 53 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: Love that BEZ for people who not regular t fat 54 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: listeners and who are maybe just tuning into the first 55 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: time to the next, Can you tell us about yourself 56 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: your illustrious sporting career. 57 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 4: Olsous sporting career in sports? 58 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 5: Adamin too, I played one hundred and sixty seven amazing 59 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 5: games of rugby for ring A rugby club, not really 60 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 5: club rugby legend, So I might say, no. 61 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: You absolutely are no line. I kind of took the piers, 62 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: but you were. When we talk about like grassroots sport, 63 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: you are one of the people that keeps sport alive 64 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: at the grassroots level. 65 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 2: So you shouldn't make jokes about it. I'm know how to, 66 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 2: but you should. 67 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 5: It was one of those things this year when I 68 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 5: looked at the the the year and I thought twenty 69 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 5: twenty five. Well, my first season of this club was 70 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 5: nineteen ninety five. This is my thirtieth year at this club. 71 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 5: So and we just won a grand finals. That was 72 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 5: really nice. 73 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 4: After rats O the rats. So yeah, brief history myself. 74 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 5: I've worked in a lot of different spaces, finance, real estate, 75 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 5: but always my passion was sport. And I finally got 76 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 5: myself in a financial position, probably through my partner position 77 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 5: more than my own, where I could make my passion 78 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 5: my job. I work for the Nisophas Wartars in the 79 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 5: community space and the women's rugby space, and I am 80 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 5: a t fapp. 81 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 4: Ho who who the head of operations. 82 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 1: We call it all the logistics, spreadsheets, merchandise, all the things, 83 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: all the important things. Really bears looks. 84 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 4: After logistic lady. Yeah, that than you are. 85 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: I'm the founder, I guess, of the Female Athlete Project, 86 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: recently retired athlete after a career across three different professional codes. 87 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: It's kind of weird to be in this new season 88 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: of retirement and now I think stepping into well, stepping 89 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: into motherhood with little nine month old Fred, but also 90 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 1: stepping into in a way, running the business full time, 91 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: doing more speaking gigs, saying yes to things. It's been 92 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: something I very much enjoyed about. My recent kind of 93 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: journey into having control over my own personal calendar for 94 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: the time really in my adult life has been really lovely. 95 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. 96 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: But I think across my sporting career, I experienced a 97 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 1: lot as a female athlete, many inequities, as a lot 98 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: of female athletes do, and that's a huge reason for 99 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: starting the Female Athlete Project. And I think when we 100 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: had this conversation read about starting this podcast, when I 101 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: think back to the podcast you and I did together 102 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: about I don't know we two years ago. Maybe I 103 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: don't know, but if you want to, people can search 104 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: and I make sure producer Soap pops the link in 105 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: the show notes this idea of the future not really existing. 106 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: Can you touch on why why we're doing this podcast, 107 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: why it's important. 108 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 3: I always describe part of my work as helping people 109 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 3: make sense of what's changing, But the other part is 110 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 3: to challenge how they think about the future in the 111 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 3: first place. And I think a good futurist can play 112 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 3: a good and bad dinner guess, can come and talk 113 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 3: about the changes that we're excited about, the changes that 114 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 3: challenge us but leave us with a sense of agency 115 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 3: and pathways. So most of the time, when we think 116 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 3: about the future, we tend to think about it as 117 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 3: it's something that's out there and down the track, and 118 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 3: we plan and act that way. And the way I 119 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 3: tend to think about it is to challenge some of 120 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 3: those myths, because when we change how we think about 121 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 3: the future, it changes how we act in the present. 122 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 3: So I say a couple of things. The future never 123 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 3: arrives because we're always in the present, so we never 124 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 3: get there, we never get down the track, so it's 125 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 3: shaped by our actions, in actions and interactions today. So 126 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 3: my work, I tend to say, is actually about shaping 127 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 3: a good present, because the future never arrives, so what 128 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 3: we do today matters, and action matters. The other thing, too, 129 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 3: is that there's no future facts because the future hasn't happened. 130 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 3: So when we think about the future, let's say the 131 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 3: future of women's sport, the question is what are we 132 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 3: actually talking about? And for me, what we're actually talking 133 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 3: about are our ideas and images of a time later 134 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 3: than now. Because there's no future facts, the only bit 135 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 3: of data we have is things that have happened in 136 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 3: the past around sport, things that are happening now, and 137 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 3: how we think about things will happen. And I tend 138 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 3: to describe that as almost like a political thing in 139 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 3: a way, because an ab Jane has this great quote 140 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 3: she says, those with the least power to shape the 141 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 3: future suffer its worse consequences. So our images of the 142 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 3: future shape a sense of what is possible, and then 143 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 3: therefore that shapes how we act and where we invest 144 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 3: and what we decide to do in the present. So 145 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 3: who's not in the room when we're talking about the 146 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 3: future of sport women precisely. So, I mean I remember 147 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 3: back to when I was playing cricket. The notion of 148 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 3: watching eighty thousand people in a World Cup final was 149 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 3: just absolutely ridiculous. Back then, it was seen as kind 150 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 3: of absurd, and the focus was on grassroots and then 151 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 3: therefore all of the strategies are centered around what we 152 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 3: just need to get bulk numbers at grassroots, and then 153 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 3: I think people started to challenge that. So for me, 154 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 3: it's probably a couple of things. One, how do we 155 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 3: make sure women are centered in conversations about the future 156 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 3: of sport. 157 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: Two. 158 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 3: I think it's also about women getting to talk about 159 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 3: what's changing around the future of sport because we pay 160 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 3: attention sometimes slightly different things. You know. There was some brilliant, 161 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 3: brilliant things that I think it was at the Olympics 162 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 3: where a lot of the was there, like kindergartens and 163 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 3: childcare that was provided. A lot of that was centered 164 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 3: through the view of what women want from sport. 165 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 5: There was opportunity for people to express milk and things 166 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 5: like that and store milk. 167 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 4: It was great. 168 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 5: They really finally acknowledge that there are women competing at 169 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 5: these Olympics that need these resources available to them. 170 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, so we need women centered in conversation about the sport. 171 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 3: Of the future of women's sport happens in the present, 172 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 3: and then where are women when we're talking about that? 173 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 3: And so my job, I think is to help people 174 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 3: make sense of what's changing now, not what might happen 175 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 3: twenty years times. I talk about the adjacent present. What 176 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 3: are the changes happening at the edge of today and 177 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 3: what might we do about it? How can we widen 178 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 3: the choices available to us now and how can I 179 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 3: challenge our sense of what is possible in the present. 180 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: You said something on a call we had the other 181 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 1: day that made me feel quite stressed about the amount 182 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: of tabs that you have open at all times. 183 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 3: I think it's you can't have more than five hundred. 184 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: I can't. 185 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 2: It actually gives me anxiety thinking about that. 186 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 5: But when I head up to twelve, I have to 187 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 5: close my laptop and like, no, there's too many. 188 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 2: You don't even close the tabs, you just close the laptop. 189 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 4: Deal with it later another time. 190 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: That's a later best. 191 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: But I think is probably a pretty good indicator of 192 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: the nature of your work and how you were just 193 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: to cross all different pieces of information at all times. 194 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: And that's why I love talking to you about these things. 195 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: What have you been noticing lately. 196 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 3: Well, four hundred and ninety eight tabs are open, so 197 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 3: there's quite a lot of different themes. 198 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 4: And I'm not sure noticing is the right word true. 199 00:09:59,160 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: Do you know? 200 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 3: Once I have to share this side story in our 201 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 3: spare room, a partner called it a mel Gibson wall, you know, 202 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 3: on conspiracy theory, where you had like all of these 203 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 3: love string Did. 204 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 4: You have the strings? 205 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 3: I had like probably hundreds of sticky notes and tying connections, 206 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 3: and my car was like, that's intense for visitors. Take 207 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 3: it down. So now it's all turned into a digital 208 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 3: mirror board, so you can imagine what that's like. But 209 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 3: what am I paying attention to probably a cultural taboo 210 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 3: in sport. So for me, I'm paying attention to the 211 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 3: fact that I think gambling is shifting from something that 212 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 3: was adjacent to sport to something where it is now 213 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 3: part of sporting infrastructure, and women's sport is the new 214 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 3: frontier of that. 215 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 2: I feel a little bit scared about that. 216 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 5: From an individual athletes point of view, an athlete's point 217 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,439 Speaker 5: of view, or from a societal impact point. 218 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: Of view, probably a combination of both. I think I've 219 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: seen it in men's sport. I feel like it's it's 220 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: it's been spoken about a lot right in men's sport, 221 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: the harm that that is on the athletes and people 222 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 1: more broadly in society. But I think I feel like 223 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: in my head, women's sport is a beautiful and positive thing, 224 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 1: and it's that. Probably what you're touching on re about 225 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 1: being a good and bad dinner guest, this is a 226 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 1: conversation about gambling infiltrating women's sport. 227 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 2: Which has already happened. It does. 228 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: It scares me a bit because I want women's sport 229 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: to be safe and protected. 230 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, we tend to say that the future 231 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 3: is already here. It's to son evenly distributed. So my 232 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 3: work is to pay attention of all of those little signals, 233 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 3: so we know as you say that sports betting, I mean, 234 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 3: the normalization of sports betting in this country is kind 235 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 3: of quite profound unless you come from somewhere else. It's 236 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 3: so normal to us. Australians are the world's biggest gamblers 237 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 3: per capita, which is kind of insane. Two our three 238 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 3: kids eight to sixteen, no at least one sports betting brand, 239 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 3: which I find kind of well phenomenal, And thirty percent 240 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 3: of kids twelve to seventeen have already gambled. You know. 241 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 5: Again, just a little kind of anecdote there sat behind, 242 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 5: I want to say, these three boys were probably somewhere 243 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 5: around fifteen sixteen years old at a AFL game earlier 244 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 5: this year, and they were all on apps on their 245 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 5: phone placing bets. 246 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 4: I was like, you guys are not old enough to 247 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 4: be doing this. 248 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 3: One in three Victorian sports betters are eighteen to twenty 249 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 3: four year old men. So this is absolutely normalized. It's 250 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 3: embedded in business models, So sporting codes now get a 251 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 3: cut bets, even at amateur levels. Globally, though, I think 252 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:31,719 Speaker 3: what's fascinating, and I didn't know this till I was 253 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 3: researching it. It's only just been unlocked in the US. 254 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, because they had really street laws around it, right. 255 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 5: It was literally in Nevada and New Jersey like back 256 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 5: in the day, the places where you could have a 257 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 5: casino kind of all the big casinos, and they've just 258 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 5: made it legal in so many states and it's all 259 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 5: online again because it's so much more accessible. 260 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: Do you think that's something that's spoken about enough around 261 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 1: the sporting legs getting a cut? I don't think that 262 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: many people know about getting a cut. 263 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very right down to So the reach of 264 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 3: sports betting I think I've find quite phenomenal. There was 265 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 3: a brilliant four Corners piece I don't know if you 266 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 3: saw it, talking about how betting markets are reaching amateur sports. 267 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 3: So it was like a suburban fifth tier game. 268 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:15,959 Speaker 4: It was cricket. There was a cricket game, yep. 269 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 3: And there was a data scout there. 270 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 5: Data scout at like literally old blokes playing cricket. 271 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 4: It was mind blowing. 272 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 5: If you haven't watched that Four Corners episode, look it 273 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 5: up on abciview. 274 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 4: It's worth a watch. 275 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: Sorry, silly question, but a data scout do they work 276 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: for the betting company? 277 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 3: Yeah? So you might see some strangers at kind of 278 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 3: local league amateur games and they're essentially typing in all 279 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,959 Speaker 3: of the data of the live sporting event and that 280 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 3: feeds updates into global sports betting systems so you can 281 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:47,719 Speaker 3: actually bet on it. 282 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: So the leagues themselves don't even have the data accessible online, 283 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: so they're actually manually going out and inputting that data. 284 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 5: They've probably only got results data rather than you know, 285 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 5: what's the actual drilled down data that the they're looking for. 286 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 2: It's crazy. 287 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 3: So it's it's spread. But I think for me, the 288 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,839 Speaker 3: interesting kind of threshold is how it's starting to show 289 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 3: up in women's sport. And like we say, the futures 290 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 3: already here, it's done evenly distributed, but women's sport is 291 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 3: becoming betting content. So the interesting thing for me is 292 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 3: alongside rising visibility of women's sport record levels, we're seeing 293 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 3: record levels of betting and sports betting investment in women's sport, 294 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 3: so WNBA betting went up one hundred and fifty to 295 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, and we know that there were record 296 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 3: viewership numbers around that the Women's World Cup third biggest 297 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 3: bet on soccer competition behind the men's World Cup and 298 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 3: English Premier League that year. 299 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 4: That's mind blowing, isn't it. 300 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 5: I wonder I do wonder sometimes if people see the 301 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 5: women's game as an easier bet in some regards. If 302 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 5: you know the sport better, if you know the sport, 303 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 5: you think tis of mayb The betting market doesn't quite 304 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 5: know the sport like I know the sport I know 305 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 5: and probably speaking out of school here, but from experience, 306 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 5: I bet on a women's Rugby World Cup in probably 307 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 5: twenty ten, so maybe fifteen years ago, very early days. 308 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 5: Actually it couldn't have been that early, maybe the last 309 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 5: one or two after that, and some of the some 310 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 5: of the odds were just flat out wrong. They obviously 311 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 5: didn't know the market. Interesting, So there's that element of that. 312 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 5: Because the sport is still growing, the sport is still 313 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 5: quite unpredictable and or maybe actually more predictable than the 314 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 5: men's sport. The men's game you can you think you 315 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 5: can beat the game. 316 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: I've had this conversation with my brother a few years 317 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: back around betting in the women's sports space, and I 318 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: hadn't heard anything about this, and I remember him saying 319 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: about people who were getting on board with women's sport 320 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,479 Speaker 1: betting more so than men's sport. 321 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 2: Because of that predictability piece. 322 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: And I think, like, say, if we look at a 323 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: cricket example, like with the new South Wales women's cricket 324 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: team who just dominated for years and years, like, you're 325 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: not going to get great. 326 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 3: On the receiving end of that. Thank you for that so. 327 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: Many times, and so like probably about example, because you're 328 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: not going to get great odds on something like that. 329 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 5: But I guess if it's only paying small odds, it's 330 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 5: in a way you're thinking it's a guarantee win. 331 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: Yes, And so yeah, that's probably when you talked about 332 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: this topic. That's probably the only exposure that conversation that 333 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: i'd had in terms of that that predictability piece. 334 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 2: I'd say, it's. 335 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 3: Kind of interesting because a lot of and I'm not 336 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 3: here necessarily as a gambling expert. I'm here is a futurist 337 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 3: who looks at change. But a lot of the hook 338 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 3: around sports betting is the assumption of skill, and that's 339 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 3: also why athletes themselves have an increased risk. One study 340 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 3: was saying up to six times the amount of increased 341 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 3: risk of harm from sports betting, which I find kind 342 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 3: of interesting. But so so if we think about women's sport, 343 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 3: the link between viewership going up and betting going up, 344 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 3: and now that it's been unlocked in the US, and 345 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,880 Speaker 3: it's also in the US been unlocked at college level, 346 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 3: enormous amounts of betting is happening at college level. But 347 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 3: the other domain, and the other dimension to this is 348 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 3: that women are the fastest growing bedding customers. So it's 349 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 3: not just betting on women's sport. You know, if you 350 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 3: think about I think it was in the US, female 351 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 3: sign ups rose one hundred and fifteen percent year on year, 352 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 3: outpacing men in terms of new betters, the new category 353 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 3: of betters. 354 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 1: And do you see that there's something where sport has 355 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: now been built as a place where people expect those 356 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: things to go hand in hand, Like are these women 357 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 1: seeing the way they've seen men be involved with sport 358 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: in their lives in whatever capacity, thinking that's how you 359 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,719 Speaker 1: engage with sport. That's how I need to now engage 360 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: with women's sport. 361 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 3: That's so interesting. I mean it is in this country, 362 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 3: and I've been really obsessed, and there's been in some 363 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 3: political pushback around tightening advertising within. 364 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 4: Sport and things like that so kids don't. 365 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 3: See like hundreds of ads during the because. 366 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 4: It did get ridiculous. It was every single break in play. 367 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 3: Young kids can cite odds, and so for me that 368 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 3: that became a very porous line between what is sport. 369 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 3: You know, straight away you'd go to the sports betting 370 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 3: kind of conversation and it felt like an extension of 371 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 3: the commentary analysis. But I think there's also a broader 372 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 3: If you think that fifty percent of half of the 373 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 3: fans for AFL are women from a sports betting perspective, 374 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 3: that's a massive opportunity. So I'm really interested to about 375 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 3: how advertising has shifted. So if you watch sports bet 376 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 3: ads and again good Bad Dinner, guess, you can see 377 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 3: how women themselves in the ads have moved from being 378 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 3: a decorative object to an expert at the desk. So 379 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 3: they were there they use to be there alongside their 380 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 3: boyfriends or husbands, just cheering them on Now they're not 381 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 3: only they're as Better's main character vibe, but they're also 382 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,360 Speaker 3: you can see them on the desk, you know, talking 383 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 3: about the odds. So for me, that's such a significant 384 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 3: shift alongside the rise of like novelty bets like you 385 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 3: can bet on Maths and the Grammys, and so there's 386 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 3: a huge shift happening in that space. 387 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 5: That's quite interesting, that novelty bet piece. And you said, 388 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 5: like you said, you can literally bet on you know, 389 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 5: Grammys and things like that, So that's another avenue that 390 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 5: they can attract, Like you said, fifty percent of AFL 391 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 5: fans and women. And it's funny we speak so much 392 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 5: about how fifty one percent of the population are women. 393 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 5: How do we engage that fifty percent for women's sport? 394 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 5: I mean, at the end of the day, the gambling 395 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 5: companies are doing exactly the same. How do we engage 396 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 5: that fifty one percent of the population to bet on sport? 397 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: Is the is the Maths and the Grammys? Like, is 398 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: that the gateway drug to hardcore sports gambling? It's not 399 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: that hardcore, but it can be. It can be really damaging, right, Yeah, 400 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. 401 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 2: If there's a. 402 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 3: Like a there's probably a natural thread between if I'm 403 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 3: betting on a thing, because it goes back to that 404 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 3: notion of it feeling like a skill. But in the 405 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 3: context of gateway, that reminds me too of the role 406 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 3: of fantasy sports. So some fantasy sport platforms have now 407 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 3: added sports betting components as a recognition of that gateway. 408 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 2: We know that. 409 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 3: I think there was a study that said almost eighty 410 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 3: percent of fantasy sports players also bet. But the other 411 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 3: interesting thing is when the fantasy sports program is centered 412 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 3: on women's sport, the demographics flip because it's mostly men 413 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 3: that do fantasy sport when it's women's sport. I think 414 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 3: it was the WSL in England the fantasy platform built 415 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 3: around that, it was seventy five percent of female users. 416 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 3: So when the fantasy product is built around women's sport, 417 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 3: women become the primary users. And we know that fantasy 418 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 3: sport is a gateway into sports betting. 419 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: Where do you draw the line with fantasy sport though, 420 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: because that seems harmless, but if it becomes the gateway, 421 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 1: then it can be dangerous, Like is fantasy I see 422 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 1: fantasy sport without knowing that piece of information is a 423 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 1: really positive way to get women engaged in women's sport again. 424 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 4: I think it's that integration with betting platforms. There. 425 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 5: Honestly, there's there's a button at the end of you 426 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 5: would you like to turn this fantasy sports team into 427 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 5: a bet? 428 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's dangerous. 429 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 3: It's like we call it kind of dark ux, you know, 430 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 3: it's like the dark user experience where it is such 431 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,919 Speaker 3: an easy slide to that as a process, it's not 432 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 3: overt you know, decision making doors that I'm going through 433 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 3: all of a sudden, I kind of just arrive there. 434 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 3: And I find that really interesting from a broader perspective. 435 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 3: But when I also think about how gambling, sports, sports 436 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 3: betting products are starting to evolve, the products in and 437 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 3: of themselves, we're now looking at so it's not just 438 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,479 Speaker 3: necessary and I'm going to bet on this team to win, 439 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 3: all this team to win. We're now looking at InPlay 440 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 3: and micro betting kind of going mainstream, which means I'm 441 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 3: specifically betting on you, Chloe. How many touches you get 442 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 3: in a game, regardless of whether your team wins or. 443 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 4: Losers About twelve. 444 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 2: Oh, it's not a lot, is it. 445 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: I moved I was a defender At the end, I 446 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: didn't touch the balls much. I was too in to 447 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: touch the port that the micro betting stuff is quite incredible, 448 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: and I think that's where I see it a lot 449 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: in the Maltese that seems to be like where there's 450 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: like it's just like the high risk, high reward bets 451 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 1: for these people where they've got multiple different things and 452 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: if it pays off, they are cheering. 453 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 5: And that's the interesting thing. It's almost it's that gambling 454 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 5: rush of I had a ten leg multi it was 455 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 5: paying a thousand dollars or whatever it is. It's like 456 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 5: buying a ticket in the powerball, right, like you don't 457 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 5: necessary expected to happen, and then you've got a story 458 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 5: when it misses out by one leg. It's it's just 459 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 5: there's this hype about it that I definitely didn't exist 460 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 5: five years ago. 461 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: I do think some of those micro data points, I'm 462 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 1: really curious to see how that continues to evolve as well. 463 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: With the sporting bodies around again, where do you draw 464 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 1: the line with that, Like, as an athlete, how much 465 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: of your it's not personal data, but I guess your 466 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: professional athlete data is then publicly available for the purpose 467 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: of betting exactly. 468 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 3: I mean, it just changes the whole dynamic to where 469 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 3: it becomes very targeted at the individual athlete. But that 470 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 3: made me think too of the kind of emerging shifts 471 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 3: around betting products too, is focusing on betting on athletes bodies. 472 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 3: So we know that sport itself has been quantified. You know, 473 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,959 Speaker 3: there's so many numbers and data and everything's kind of 474 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:02,719 Speaker 3: captured and quantified athletes and their bodies. We measure sweat, 475 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 3: we measure measure menstrual cycles, we measure sleep, everything. So 476 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 3: that's now becoming a betting product, which I find really fascinating. 477 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,479 Speaker 3: I think it was pro squash, so they streamed lived 478 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 3: heart rates of their athletes and in return it paid 479 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 3: out to a number of squash athletes. It was like 480 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,120 Speaker 3: in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. So just by 481 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 3: making my heart rate available, I was able to get 482 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 3: individual kind of kickbacks. So we're starting to look at 483 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 3: you know, biometric kind of base as an extension of 484 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 3: the sports Belding products. 485 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: Where my head goes to it first, like I know 486 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 1: you're talking about the menstrual cycle. Women's sport has lagged 487 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: so far behind in the technology and access to resourcing 488 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 1: for us to get to a point where we finally 489 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: have access for that data for that to then be 490 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: on sold for the purpose of betting. I'm like, calm on, 491 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 1: that can't be happening that soon, can of you know, 492 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: like that's and it's the reality of it that that's 493 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 1: the direction that it's going. 494 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,679 Speaker 2: But that feels dishearting. 495 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 5: Well again, you know, Unfortunately, sometimes it takes money, someone 496 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 5: like a gambling company with all the dollars to do 497 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 5: the research, you know, to make these things happen. It's wild, that's. 498 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 2: Wild, you know. 499 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:24,719 Speaker 3: I always say, to borrowing off a gym data quote, 500 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 3: that the future often arrives via the things that we 501 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 3: considered to be ridiculous at first. So I mean, the 502 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 3: best way to understand that idea is to go back 503 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 3: and think how ridiculous things were in the past, so 504 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 3: the future will feel ridiculous. So every time we're like, 505 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 3: no way, that's ridiculous, we won't be able to bet 506 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 3: on athletes sweat levels. For me, that's usually a sign 507 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 3: where I start paying attention. It's almost how the future happens. 508 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,640 Speaker 3: It's like, that's ridiculous, that will never happen, and then 509 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 3: it's like, Okay, that's happening, but that's the US sport 510 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 3: thing that doesn't happen in this code. And then it's like, oh, 511 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 3: that's we've always been, you know, dissecting the game down 512 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 3: to micro moments and betting on the outcomes of that. No, 513 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 3: we haven't. We haven't always been doing that. It's the 514 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 3: only time that makes sense to us is the present. 515 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 3: And the thing that I'm really interested in watching now 516 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 3: is we're in the middle of this experiment in a way. 517 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 3: I wonder if men's sport can untangle from that. I'm 518 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 3: not sure, given all of the layers of the kickbacks 519 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 3: that sporting bodies get right down to the amateur beds. 520 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 3: Is how it's showing up from a harm perspective. So 521 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 3: we know that one in three US college athletes receive 522 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 3: gambling threats and that women experience three times more abuse 523 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:44,239 Speaker 3: than men. The other thing I was reading was that 524 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 3: it's getting more sophisticated. I mean, you'd know as a player, 525 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 3: just the sophistication and the intensity of online harassment now 526 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 3: because you only got twelve touches and coming after you directly, 527 00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 3: and even more so sophisticated AI bots not just getting 528 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 3: some random better that lost two hundred dollars. There are 529 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 3: whole bots and syndicate bots targeting specific athletes. So for me, 530 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 3: it's like, not only do you already experience a lot 531 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 3: of online harassment and gender based violence, it's now coming 532 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 3: from a whole news source. 533 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: You touched on earlier. The statistic that elite athletes are 534 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 1: up to six times more likely to be at risk 535 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: of gambling related harm. Is that the harm that they 536 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: may receive online from people on social media or is 537 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: that them engaging and having harm because of their addiction 538 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: to gambling. 539 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 3: That's them engaging. So they're at risk of becoming and 540 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 3: experiencing sports betting harm themselves. 541 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 2: And are their reasons for that? 542 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 1: Is it because of the close involvement in sport and 543 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: what Bears touched on earlier, this idea of I feel 544 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: like I know it better than those people do. 545 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 3: Such a good conversation. I was having this chat to 546 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 3: my partner in the car earlier today, and from what 547 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 3: I can gather, it's a confluence of things. Those things exactly. 548 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 3: There's some uniqueness about the experience of sport, and we 549 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 3: know the links between like gambling and isolation and sometimes 550 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 3: you can experience that in a workplace setting like sport, 551 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 3: if you're injured or a whole variety of things, you 552 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 3: have an assumption about your level of skill around sport, 553 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 3: like we've mentioned, I mean, you're in the setting already. 554 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 5: I think also that that again, like we're speaking about 555 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,199 Speaker 5: that rush, the endorphin kick you know you got. An 556 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 5: elite athlete is always looking for a high of some description, 557 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 5: and that if that's not being found in a place 558 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 5: of competition on field, perhaps it's being found in the 559 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 5: rush of you know, a big bet. 560 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. 561 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: I wonder if the retired athlete stats are actually higher 562 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: when you know, sorry that that was so like I'm retired, 563 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: like that concept of I feel like that's the most 564 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: common thing that people talk about with retired athletes. They 565 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: don't get that high anymore from competing. I genuinely wonder 566 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: what the dard would look like for gambling addictions for 567 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: retired athletes. 568 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 4: Huge. 569 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good question. It's an intro time, I 570 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 3: think because whenever I talk to people about this in general, 571 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 3: especially parents, they're immediately like, yep, no, it's kind of 572 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 3: it's destroying sport. And like I always say some people's 573 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 3: utopia are other people's dystopias. Some people might be really 574 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,239 Speaker 3: interested in this, But for me, the interesting thing with 575 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 3: women's sports we are at that threshold. We're at that 576 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 3: point where we can make some choices around this. I'm 577 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 3: also watching cultural pushback. So Victoria they've rolled out. I 578 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 3: think there's the Last time I checked, there was seven 579 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 3: hundred clubs sports clubs, and I think there's way more now. 580 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 3: But I love the game, not the odds program. We 581 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 3: know that there are brand risks too. 582 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 2: Of doing this. 583 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 3: I think it was was it the GWS Giants tab 584 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 3: Corp deal that got some government pushback, societal pushback. Some 585 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 3: clubs are coming out, lots of clubs. I think it's 586 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 3: Geelong Foot Club. Lots of clubs are under the Love 587 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 3: the Game program. Also, some players are saying no, I 588 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 3: won't be associated with gambling products, gambling advertisements. Some sports 589 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 3: leagues are coming out as well, So there is an 590 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 3: interesting kind of threshold. I think for men's sports a 591 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 3: different conversation. It is so entangled, right down to the 592 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 3: minutia of all the quiet kickbacks and a whole variety 593 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 3: of things. But for women's sport, I think we're at 594 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:32,479 Speaker 3: the threshold. 595 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: And it's this interesting conversation around that, and something we 596 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: talked about a lot with our CBA negotiations between the 597 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: AFLPA and the AFL around minimum pay, pregnancy policies, a 598 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: whole range of different player standards. This idea of not 599 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: copying and pasting from the men, just because that's been 600 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: seen as a pinnacle. It's like taking the opportunity, if 601 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: we're not too far down the rabbit hole already, of 602 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: creating a different environment for women's sport where we don't 603 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: have to do the exact same things as what the 604 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: men have done. 605 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, I tend to describe that as like this idea 606 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 3: of being a used or a borrowed future. There are 607 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 3: elements of the men's game, of course, why would we 608 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:23,479 Speaker 3: not use that as infrastructure or ideas. But then, for me, 609 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 3: the beauty of women's sport is that it offers something different. 610 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 3: And I always use that example of going to a 611 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 3: Matilda's game with like five of my ARTSI friends that 612 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 3: have zero interest in sport. They bought the tickets and 613 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 3: it was just like a whole other experience. So my 614 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 3: provocation always is to say, well, these are the changes 615 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 3: that are going on, you know, so what now? 616 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 4: What? 617 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 3: How can we widen the choices available to us today? 618 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 3: But based on a conversation around what is the future 619 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 3: of women's sport that we want to inhabit, Not to 620 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 3: try and get it precisely right, but what are the 621 00:31:58,160 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 3: stories that we want to see more of and less of? 622 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 3: What do we want to take forward with us? And 623 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 3: what don't we and then therefore what do we do now? 624 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 3: So if I think about some of those so what questions, 625 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 3: I've got one to pose to you both? 626 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 4: Oh oh love us? What question? 627 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 3: It's like if that was the broader patterns of change, 628 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 3: you know, women getting into sports betting themselves, it's being 629 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 3: the new frontier. It's a new space of targeted by 630 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 3: sports betters. If gambling money could make women's sports fully 631 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 3: professional tomorrow, should we say yes? 632 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 4: No, I'll say yes, you can go first. Do you 633 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 4: want to go first? 634 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 5: Yes, even though I'm not naive to think that that 635 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 5: will have As we've spoken about dramatic impact on both 636 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 5: the athlete society as a whole. Are the pressures already there? 637 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 5: And I think that's probably what I'm leaning back on. 638 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 5: We've spoken about the fact that a lot of these 639 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 5: pressures are. 640 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 4: There, perhaps there were. 641 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 5: Female women athletes are feeling those pressures already, and I 642 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 5: think a lot of them are, So why should they 643 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 5: not benefit from benefit financially from a pressure that I 644 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 5: think is already there. I think the yes for me 645 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 5: is with a big caveat of there have to be 646 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 5: some really good guardrails put in place in and around 647 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 5: athletes support in that space, both from an external point 648 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 5: of view, as in gamblers getting in their comments, which 649 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 5: you know, to speak to that pressure part. And I 650 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 5: think when we compare men's and women's sport, women's sport 651 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 5: have always just played for the love of it. 652 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 4: That's where we've come from. You know, we're playing for 653 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 4: the love of it. 654 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 5: This with the ever changing professionalism levels that we're experiencing, 655 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 5: that pressure comes hand in hand with that. So for me, 656 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 5: an injection of cash, even if it's from a questionable source, 657 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 5: allows that athlete to be better, perform better, because we 658 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 5: all know that investment equals better performance. So yeah, in 659 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 5: a roundabout way, yes, but I'm. 660 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 4: Going to agree with so much of your no. 661 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 2: That was really good from you, though I'm siting nodding along. 662 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: I think you did actually a great job, and mine's 663 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 1: not going to be nearly as polished. But to me, 664 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: I see it as a really unsustainable way to invest 665 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 1: in women's sport. I think it's to me, it's not 666 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,839 Speaker 1: about a good future. When I think about that and 667 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: what that means for the next generation of athletes that 668 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 1: come through. I think the harm that will roll on 669 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: and compound over many years for the athletes and society 670 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: will broadly is not how I see women's sport wanting 671 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: to impact. That's not how I see the role of 672 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: women's sport. I see women's sports as having this ability 673 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,720 Speaker 1: to challenge beliefs and perceptions and things. And I think 674 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: we've started to see the growth of athlete advocacy as well. 675 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: And I don't think a lot of athletes are going 676 00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: to be okay with something like that. I think a 677 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 1: lot of ath letes, particularly women athletes, have really taken stands. 678 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: You touched on a few examples earlier ree of I'm 679 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 1: not okay with that. I won't be signing that deal. 680 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,439 Speaker 1: I won't be using my name and image in that advertisement. 681 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,320 Speaker 1: We saw the Diamonds taking the s down with Handcock prospecting, 682 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: Like I just I think where we're going. As an athlete, Cohort, 683 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 1: I can't speak on behalf of all athletes, but as 684 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 1: an athlete, Cohort, I feel like we're moving in a 685 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: direction of athletes putting their hands up and saying no, 686 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:25,720 Speaker 1: that's not good enough. 687 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 5: Yeah, and I totally agree with everything you said. And 688 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 5: I think from an administrative point of view, the frustration 689 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 5: that I experience a week experience I think as a 690 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:41,240 Speaker 5: whole of trying to attract investment and sponsorship and commercial deals. 691 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 5: So my yes is probably just out of relief of 692 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,279 Speaker 5: you would be out of relief if someone please come 693 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 5: and help us, because we are absolutely you know the 694 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 5: amount of times you approach a commercial partner with an 695 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,359 Speaker 5: amazing deal and these And I think you touched on it. 696 00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 5: One of the things I like what you said is 697 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 5: that the women athlete is a more holistic athlete. It's 698 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 5: not necessarily about what they do on field. They are 699 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 5: looked upon as more of an entirety of a human 700 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 5: for one of a better word. So yes, anything that 701 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,439 Speaker 5: we could get to help those athletes be the best 702 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 5: they can. 703 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: And I reckon that is a reflection. I like what 704 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 1: Red talks about about people when you'll say. 705 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 2: It way better than me. 706 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,479 Speaker 1: But the people who are sitting in the room making 707 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: the decisions make those decisions based on their experiences and 708 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: their past history. I think for you, Bez, you were 709 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 1: part of women's rugby that has incredible talent and so 710 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 1: desperately needs more funding that it's probably a different conversation 711 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,680 Speaker 1: for me. That was part of generational cbas that came 712 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,840 Speaker 1: into place for AFOW players, you know, like I feel 713 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: like that's probably a big part of our yes and 714 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: knows as well. 715 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, agree? 716 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 3: Do you think we could get to a point with 717 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 3: sport where we love the odds more than the game? 718 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,280 Speaker 3: And my second part of that question, do you think 719 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 3: that sports betting as we currently know it highly normalized 720 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 3: in this country but not necessarily the case everywhere else, 721 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 3: could become you know, the big Tobacco of our time 722 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 3: if you look back at sport and you think, Wow, 723 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,800 Speaker 3: how influential Big Tobacco was. So a double part question. 724 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 5: Yes to the question in regards to could the bet 725 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:23,840 Speaker 5: become bigger than the game? 726 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:24,760 Speaker 4: Absolutely? 727 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 5: And I don't think for everyone, but I think for 728 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 5: a percentage of sports fan for sure. And you watch 729 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 5: I think if anyone goes to any live sporting event and. 730 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:33,799 Speaker 4: They see the. 731 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 5: Fever in which people get involved in sport purely based 732 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 5: on outcome. If you throw into that financial game, then 733 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 5: that fever just becomes heightened and that kind of thing is. 734 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 4: Catching. 735 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 5: So yes, I can see that becoming more important than 736 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 5: the sport and the people involved in the sport. 737 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 2: I agree on both fronts. And I think. 738 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: When I think about probably the three things for me, 739 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,719 Speaker 1: which I hope we cover in future episodes. I'm sure 740 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: we will, but I think the gambling concussion and the 741 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 1: sustainability piece, they are the three flags for me in 742 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:12,799 Speaker 1: terms of the future of sport about things that could 743 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,399 Speaker 1: really significantly impact it. 744 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,759 Speaker 3: I mean, the whole point is to say, it's if 745 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,279 Speaker 3: we think about, you know, now, what might we do 746 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,359 Speaker 3: come Monday. Is not necessarily to have to resolve these 747 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,879 Speaker 3: big dilemmas. It's to say, these are the changes that 748 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 3: are in here and now, so what you know, where 749 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 3: are the opportunities, where are the risks? And now what 750 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 3: kind of what is our next right move? And so 751 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,240 Speaker 3: with women's sport, maybe this is where we start to say, 752 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 3: you know, not a false dichonomy of a yes or no, 753 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:45,319 Speaker 3: but saying, do you know what we want to put 754 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 3: really tight guardrails in? Do you know what individual betting 755 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 3: on player outcomes? No biometric betting on you know, women athletes. No, 756 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 3: but yes to these things or whatever it may be. 757 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 3: We've got the window where, I think, where we can 758 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,560 Speaker 3: make very resilient and intentional choices based on the future 759 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 3: of women's sport that we want to inhabit. 760 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 2: And like I say that the. 761 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,880 Speaker 3: Future of anything, the future of sport is shaped in 762 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 3: the present. So those small little considerations is actually what 763 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 3: will shape the future of women's sport. It's not a 764 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 3: big grand decision point the future often happens why really 765 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 3: boring mundane things. It's like, all of a sudden, we 766 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:26,880 Speaker 3: just end up somewhere else. It's like, how did we 767 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 3: end up where we are today? It's often really tiny 768 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,920 Speaker 3: little decisions that kind of get threaded together and then 769 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 3: all of a sudden, we're somewhere else. So how do 770 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,440 Speaker 3: we get inside those decisions? How do we do it 771 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,720 Speaker 3: in a way that aligns to the futures of sports 772 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:43,800 Speaker 3: that we want to inhabit. And that might be a 773 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,239 Speaker 3: little bit contested, But what's the most resilient thing that 774 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 3: we can do today. 775 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,319 Speaker 2: I love that resilient and intentional. I'm here for that. 776 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Ree for joining us for our 777 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,320 Speaker 1: first episode of this series. Very excited to continue chatting 778 00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 1: to you about a whole range of topics each month. 779 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,839 Speaker 1: We'll see you all on the next episode of the 780 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:03,920 Speaker 1: next Thank you. 781 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 3: I can now close my tabs to four hundred and ninety. 782 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:10,360 Speaker 4: Frightening, absolutely petrifying. 783 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:11,880 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening. 784 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 1: If you got something out of this episode, I would 785 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,360 Speaker 1: absolutely love it if you could send it on to 786 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,440 Speaker 1: one person who you think might enjoy it. Otherwise, subscribe, 787 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 1: give us a review, and make sure you follow us 788 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 1: on Instagram at the Female Athlete Project to stay up 789 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: to date with podcast episodes, merch drops, and of course, 790 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,719 Speaker 1: news and stories about epic female athletes.