Speaker 1: Hello.
Speaker 2: My name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yr the
Speaker 2: Order KERNI Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before we
Speaker 2: get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would
Speaker 2: like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of
Speaker 2: which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging
Speaker 2: the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through
Speaker 2: as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and
Speaker 2: the storytelling of you to make a difference for today
Speaker 2: and lasting impact for tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Let's get into it.
Speaker 3: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
Speaker 4: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
Speaker 4: for people who want financial freedom. My name is beck
Speaker 4: Side and with me, as always is Victoria devine.
Speaker 1: Wan A surprise, h seeing you here, I have What
Speaker 1: do you do on a Wednesday? That's crazy? I didn't
Speaker 1: see this coming. How are you?
Speaker 4: Oh, this has never happened before.
Speaker 1: No novel idea.
Speaker 4: Oh absolutely so, V. I don't know if you know
Speaker 4: what the topic of this episode is today, but we
Speaker 4: are talking about how you can set up workplace boundaries.
Speaker 4: So I guess like first things First, how important is
Speaker 4: setting it boundaries with your employers?
Speaker 1: So yes, I did know what the topic of today
Speaker 1: was because I set the topic of today.
Speaker 5: I have had too many conversations with friends recently who
Speaker 5: have had their boundaries like exploited, and I get so
Speaker 5: frustrated at the idea that you know, people don't respect
Speaker 5: their team, especially as someone who runs multiple teams.
Speaker 1: I just go hold on, like what are you doing?
Speaker 1: So I thought the best way to channel my anger
Speaker 1: was into a podcast. More passion is going to be
Speaker 1: in this than I think usual, and I think it
Speaker 1: is so important that we talk about it, whether you're
Speaker 1: experiencing it or not, just so that we can advocate
Speaker 1: for ourselves, but also advocate for our friends and our
Speaker 1: family and give them good advice and tips when they
Speaker 1: need it. Obviously not unsolicited advice and tips, because if
Speaker 1: you've been following me on Instagram, I don't really like those. No,
Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about the typical nine to five,
Speaker 1: five day a week kind of vibe. But obviously different
Speaker 1: work environments have very different requirements. But we are talking
Speaker 1: about your personal boundaries. We're going to be asking the question,
Speaker 1: what are you comfortable with? How can you define them
Speaker 1: without feeling like you're letting your employer down, and all
Speaker 1: of those little things that make you feel as though
Speaker 1: you really need to say yes to your boss when
Speaker 1: you don't actually have to, because you don't actually need
Speaker 1: to do two hours of unpaid labor after work just
Speaker 1: because they ask nicely, You really don't.
Speaker 4: I think a lot of people are going to need
Speaker 4: this episode today. I feel like it is going to
Speaker 4: be really useful. But why is it good to talk
Speaker 4: about this?
Speaker 1: It's obviously good to talk about it because we don't
Speaker 1: want to be taken advantage of. But beck your job
Speaker 1: takes up maybe like eighty percent of your week, right
Speaker 1: if you're working five days a week, which we know
Speaker 1: quite a few people do a four day week now,
Speaker 1: which is very nice for them, and it's great if
Speaker 1: it works, but it's really important that you're not burning
Speaker 1: yourself out and letting more important aspects of your life
Speaker 1: go down the drain in order for you to appease
Speaker 1: your workplace, who technically should only be getting you for
Speaker 1: that thirty eight hours, but somehow they're getting sixty wild.
Speaker 1: So yes, work is obviously important. It is what provides
Speaker 1: you within income, which obviously is very important to live
Speaker 1: your life, but boundaries are also critical to focusing on
Speaker 1: other areas like maintaining your physical and your mental and
Speaker 1: your spiritual health. But if you really love your job,
Speaker 1: work can often be like an area of your life
Speaker 1: where all of these things are benefited. But if you're
Speaker 1: on the other foot and work is just you know,
Speaker 1: what you do to pay the bills and put food
Speaker 1: on the table, I think you need to be finding
Speaker 1: time for yourself and for other parts of your life
Speaker 1: that bring joy. And to me, that is super super critical,
Speaker 1: and I think so so many times. We need to
Speaker 1: actually understand that delineation. Because it is okay to have
Speaker 1: a job where you go, it's just my job. I
Speaker 1: do it during the day. It pays me well because
Speaker 1: I get my nourishment outside of that. It's actually okay
Speaker 1: as well. If you're like move like I see that
Speaker 1: you're talking about boundaries basically married to my job because
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with it, that's okay. But what we want
Speaker 1: you to know is this is all about consent really
Speaker 1: and choice and being given the choice and being able
Speaker 1: to make it. Like so many times when I worked,
Speaker 1: you know, even corporately, I was putting in so many
Speaker 1: more hours than I should and once I realized why,
Speaker 1: I could strip them back. But then there were also
Speaker 1: those hours that I'd put in because they made me
Speaker 1: feel better. So I'd be like, all right, well, you know,
Speaker 1: not meant to be working on a Sunday, But if
Speaker 1: I spend an hour on a Sunday going through my calendar,
Speaker 1: going through my emails, I'm gonna have a better week.
Speaker 1: And for me, my mental health is so much better
Speaker 1: when I feel in control. And that was something where
Speaker 1: a lot of people would be like, I can't believe
Speaker 1: you're working on a Sunday. But I'd be like, well, actually,
Speaker 1: I'd much prefer to do that hour on a Sunday,
Speaker 1: said I'm setting myself up for the week. So we're
Speaker 1: not saying draw these hard lines and you know, don't
Speaker 1: do anything at all. Don't lift a finger. It's five pm,
Speaker 1: pans in the air, otherwise you'll be in trouble. It's
Speaker 1: more are you okay with that? Because like if you are, like,
Speaker 1: it's your choice. Like at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: we know that Australians put way more time, energy and
Speaker 1: effort into their roles than any other country in the world,
Speaker 1: and I think that that comes down to our loyalty
Speaker 1: and it comes down to our worker thick and all
Speaker 1: of that. But we also don't want to be taking
Speaker 1: advantage job. So that's what this podcast is about.
Speaker 4: Beck. Yeah, I totally agree with you. For me, I'm
Speaker 4: kind of like, you know, I love video editing, so
Speaker 4: I love a Friday night and it sounds weird where
Speaker 4: I just have like a red wine.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, No one's gonna annoy you because like, yes, exactly,
Speaker 1: it's so much fun for me to just like cut
Speaker 1: up some videos have a red wine.
Speaker 4: But just to clarify it, I mean, I know that
Speaker 4: I am choosing that, but basically, once it hits five pm,
Speaker 4: I go home and that's it. But I guess it's
Speaker 4: not really the case with everyone, is it.
Speaker 1: No, of course not. And sadly it isn't the case
Speaker 1: for everybody. Like every year. I alluded to this before
Speaker 1: the Australian Institute Center for Future Work releases their report
Speaker 1: for Go Home on Time Day and their findings I
Speaker 1: think are kind of gross. So you know, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: Australian's putting more time, energy and effort, Like it's not
Speaker 1: me being like, oh, what a flex? Like we all
Speaker 1: know how I feel about that. I think I've said before.
Speaker 1: If you have a full time job and somehow you're
Speaker 1: doing like fifty hours a week, like, that's not a flex.
Speaker 1: Like if someone says to me, oh my god, yep,
Speaker 1: like I work for this, you know, standard corporate role.
Speaker 1: I know they're meant to be employed for thirty eight
Speaker 1: hours a week. If they go, yeah, I do like
Speaker 1: sixty hours a week, it's like such a finance briefing
Speaker 1: to say, I'll be like, oh, wow, so you're not
Speaker 1: very good at time management then, like it's not a
Speaker 1: flex back like I know.
Speaker 4: Or you're neglecting a lot of your time.
Speaker 1: Oh you're neglecting other parts of your life. Oh, your
Speaker 1: employer's taking advantage of you. Like, no, that's not a flex.
Speaker 1: Let's reframe that. But that report, Beck found that the
Speaker 1: average working Australian is missing out on eleven thousand and
Speaker 1: fifty five dollars a year or four hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: five dollars per fortnite due to unpaid overtime WHOA. That
Speaker 1: equals around five point four hours of unpaid work that
Speaker 1: Australians are doing each and every single year. And because
Speaker 1: I am the drama, let's make this statistic even worse.
Speaker 1: This means that Australian employees are losing accumulative one hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty one million dollars to unpaid work every year.
Speaker 1: Why how we need some boundaries. I could do a
Speaker 1: lot with one hundred and thirty one million dollars.
Speaker 4: It wouldn't hurt to have an extra couple hundred every fortnight.
Speaker 1: But like, that's what we're doing, Like you're doing unpaid work, Like,
Speaker 1: why don't you just go get a job driving you know,
Speaker 1: Uber deliveries. At least you're being paid for that work
Speaker 1: if you've got the time. Clearly you do. And that's
Speaker 1: obviously very entitled and privileged to say.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 1: I just want to check that because I think some
Speaker 1: people will be like I have to, Like, my industry
Speaker 1: demands it, yes, but it shouldn't be, should it. You're
Speaker 1: being taken advantage of. It's not nice to hear that, right,
Speaker 1: No one wants to hear like, oh, you're being taken
Speaker 1: advantage of. They're like, oh, but like this is how
Speaker 1: we get ahead in my industry. Yeah, but why is
Speaker 1: that the case?
Speaker 4: Exactly? That's so that is so bad. So yeah, like
Speaker 4: it is kind of bizarre that, you know, the average
Speaker 4: Aussie is putting in the work but not really getting
Speaker 4: the reward out, which is probably why this episode exists,
Speaker 4: and this is why boundary.
Speaker 1: Yes, and I guess I have spoken about it before.
Speaker 1: I am an employer, and look, I know there are
Speaker 1: times that you might need to log on to do
Speaker 1: some extra man hours and you know, shout out to
Speaker 1: my team. They are legends. Like sometimes I will log
Speaker 1: on and be like, why are you online? Like I
Speaker 1: can see that you're online, like, get off the internet,
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, I'm just fixing up such and such.
Speaker 1: And I try to advocate for them as much as possible,
Speaker 1: and I'll be like, beck, actually I really would prefer
Speaker 1: if you're not online, Like I know that you're just
Speaker 1: trying to do something, but like, I don't want to
Speaker 1: be taking advantage of you, And obviously I always try
Speaker 1: to re rate that. But my team also have really
Speaker 1: flexible working hours, so essentially they work the hours that
Speaker 1: suit them. Yes, they have a full time job, but
Speaker 1: if one of them goes, ah, I don't really feel
Speaker 1: like working this morning, have no client meetings, so I'm
Speaker 1: gonna start at ten, you do you? Yeah, they'll have
Speaker 1: to work later. So sometimes I have to be like
Speaker 1: what time did you start? Like is this you making
Speaker 1: up time? Like is this actually a choice and it's
Speaker 1: actually part of your thirty eight hours a week? Or
Speaker 1: is this you literally doing overtime? Which sometimes it's one
Speaker 1: or the other. But I think it's really important, especially
Speaker 1: as an employer, to respect your employees. Like the more
Speaker 1: that you respect them, the more that they respect you
Speaker 1: and your business. Like, to me, it's wild that employers
Speaker 1: just demand this level of respect because they're the business owner.
Speaker 1: So what I say goes and that to me, so
Speaker 1: itck it's like what makes you better than anybody else?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like, oh, ill are And like we work a busy
Speaker 1: job and they are obviously busy times of the year
Speaker 1: and my team gets that and I really try to
Speaker 1: make sure that they have a good work life balance.
Speaker 1: Like you know, last year during International Women's Day, we
Speaker 1: had a whole series of events and that required so
Speaker 1: much manpower, but like there was compromise. They got additional
Speaker 1: days off. Lots of places don't do that, and that
Speaker 1: blows my mind. And if my team need to go
Speaker 1: to appointments and stuff, or they want to take a
Speaker 1: longer lunch to catch up with like some family, or
Speaker 1: they might have a friend in town or something. Why
Speaker 1: wouldn't they do that? Like my team at adults beck
Speaker 1: get this, so I treat them like adults.
Speaker 4: That is wild.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's an actual insane concept for a lot of
Speaker 1: people that, oh, you're an adult, Well you know, do
Speaker 1: you have the capacity to take it to our lunch break?
Speaker 1: They might go yeah, yeah, because I'm going to work
Speaker 1: until seven tonight, or I'm gonna do this, or I'm
Speaker 1: going to do that. I'm gonna make it great. Like
Speaker 1: you're not taking the mickey out of me, but you're
Speaker 1: still having a good work life balance. Does that not
Speaker 1: mean that you're probably gonna like your job?
Speaker 4: Or yeah?
Speaker 1: Insane to me, But I think it's a give and
Speaker 1: take relationship that needs to be had between employees and employers.
Speaker 1: And you obviously just can't take take from employees. And yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: at the crux of it, you are paying them to
Speaker 1: do a job, but they have lives. They need to
Speaker 1: be respected and when you show them that, to me,
Speaker 1: it's always come back in spades. Yeah, Like my team
Speaker 1: have always been so supportive of me, so supportive of
Speaker 1: you know, the business as a whole. And I think
Speaker 1: that that starts from the top, like it starts from
Speaker 1: giving them that respect to begin with and going well, actually,
Speaker 1: you know, don't be silly. We have a recording day
Speaker 1: that day. We can't take that day off, and that's fine.
Speaker 1: But if there's flexibility to be had and they need it,
Speaker 1: go forth.
Speaker 4: In yonder, I completely agree. It's great for everything stuff moral.
Speaker 4: I just feel like you're obviously a very good employer.
Speaker 4: My boss is the best boss I've ever had, and
Speaker 4: so I feel like, in general, it's not me, you're
Speaker 4: one of them.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't get weck full time. She actually loves
Speaker 1: video editing for aarn I've tried, as it worked.
Speaker 4: Yet well either way, I mean, we're surrounded by really
Speaker 4: good people, but there are some people out there that
Speaker 4: actually kind of have bosses. They don't really share that
Speaker 4: same perspective. They maybe have like an old school way
Speaker 4: of dealing with leading the team and stuff like that.
Speaker 4: It's really easy to say, let's set boundaries when people
Speaker 4: are like us and like my boss, But there are
Speaker 4: some people that don't have that. How would you suggest
Speaker 4: they set boundaries if they're in that situation.
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's also a two way street. So
Speaker 1: I think about it. And I have managed larger teams
Speaker 1: than the team I have today, and I have had
Speaker 1: some really challenging circumstances where employees do take the mickey
Speaker 1: and you do have to kind of enforce boundaries and
Speaker 1: be like, all right, well, this level of flexibility that
Speaker 1: I've given you is you know, not just being taken
Speaker 1: for granted, but being taken for an absolute ride. You
Speaker 1: do need to turn up to work at eight am.
Speaker 1: Your hours are eight am to you know, five pm
Speaker 1: or whatever it is, and I need you to be
Speaker 1: there at that time and be present and not take
Speaker 1: the mickey. And you know, you can't just go, oh, actually,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to work from home today because I've
Speaker 1: decided that I can work from home. You know, my
Speaker 1: boss is pretty flexible when in your calendar is like
Speaker 1: an all hands meeting that everybody was meant to be
Speaker 1: there in person for I think there needs to be
Speaker 1: some level of like give and take, Like you've got boundaries.
Speaker 1: I totally understand it, but you're not the only person
Speaker 1: in this relationship. And so back to your question, I
Speaker 1: think there are heaps of ways to implement different boundaries.
Speaker 1: But let's go to a break. Actually, Okay, on the
Speaker 1: flip side, I'll tell you all about how to set
Speaker 1: them and keep them and maintain them.
Speaker 4: Good call. Okay, guys, we are back and V left
Speaker 4: us on a bit of a cliffhanger. So we've established
Speaker 4: that Aussies are putting in extra hours of work every
Speaker 4: week I mean some weeks. Hopefully not every week, but.
Speaker 1: Well for a lot of people every week.
Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of people every week.
Speaker 1: Like it's the reality again, sometimes it's the hustle. Like
Speaker 1: I totally share it, Like we need to question the hustle.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, Sevi, can you please sell us what can we
Speaker 4: actually do to protect our brains from thinking non stop
Speaker 4: about work and set up healthy boundaries?
Speaker 1: All right, Beck, we are going to first sit down
Speaker 1: and we're going to recondo our lives a little bit.
Speaker 1: What's but story for you? Like, what do you love doing?
Speaker 1: I want you to list all of that out and
Speaker 1: have a think about it. Is your friends, your family?
Speaker 1: Is it you know, Beck, you've really gotten into the gym.
Speaker 1: You love that, whatever it might be, let's figure it
Speaker 1: out and be really clear on that. Then we're going
Speaker 1: to implement actual physical things that you can do in
Speaker 1: order to make sure that your boundaries are clear to
Speaker 1: your employer so that you can genuinely enjoy these areas
Speaker 1: of your life that fulfill you. I think there needs
Speaker 1: to be also a clear delineation of not being rude,
Speaker 1: like getting up and walking out at five pm and
Speaker 1: being like, well I'm done. That's not going to win
Speaker 1: you any friends, is it. So I've got a list.
Speaker 1: We love a list. Would you like me to take
Speaker 1: you through it?
Speaker 4: Love a list?
Speaker 1: We love a list. I've got ADHD so I list
Speaker 1: every thing? So first things First, big suggestion is muting
Speaker 1: your emails or work notifications in general.
Speaker 4: Good one.
Speaker 1: I'm not good at this, so like do I say?
Speaker 1: Or as I do? I have so many work notifications.
Speaker 1: Please Also remember I'm the business owner. I'm also a
Speaker 1: control freak. That's like I need to know what's coming
Speaker 1: in and out at all times. Also, if something hits
Speaker 1: the fan, I need to be the first on it
Speaker 1: because that's my responsibility as the owner. Turns out, Beck,
Speaker 1: that's not your responsibility. If it happens after hours, you
Speaker 1: should be able to fix it within business hours. If
Speaker 1: it's a genuine emergency, it should be going to me
Speaker 1: as the owner or the manager of that and not
Speaker 1: pestering you. It's not your responsibility out of ours, right,
Speaker 1: Like unless I'm paying an on call fee for you,
Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, Beck, if something hits the fan
Speaker 1: and you know you need to spend three hours fixing it, Like,
Speaker 1: don't worry, you'll get overtime. You'd be like, slay, I
Speaker 1: love money, But that's not the case for most employees.
Speaker 1: Is that totally saying My team loves is that there
Speaker 1: are never any emergencies in marketing. So like my team
Speaker 1: user all the time, especially when I'm flustered. They'll be like,
Speaker 1: there's no such thing as an emergency in marketing. It's true, yeah,
Speaker 1: Like we use it all the time. Like there's no
Speaker 1: such thing as an emergency in podcasting, right, There's no
Speaker 1: such thing as an emergency marketing, Like, I do not
Speaker 1: care what your beliefs are that works for us, because
Speaker 1: I'm not conducting brain surgery that is a genuine emergency
Speaker 1: unless like I mean, you are actually a doctor and
Speaker 1: you're listening to this and you are trying to draw
Speaker 1: boundaries and like your on call, like page, you went
Speaker 1: off because you have to go do brain surgery. That's
Speaker 1: actually a different story than us. But if you're off
Speaker 1: the clock, you switch off like we can deal with
Speaker 1: it tomorrow. And I think that that has maintained really
Speaker 1: healthy boundaries between my team and I, but also my
Speaker 1: team and my clients. And you know, clients sometimes get
Speaker 1: out of hand. None of the ones we're currently working with,
Speaker 1: don't worry, but sometimes clients get out of hand, and
Speaker 1: they'll email you at nine pm and be like, hey,
Speaker 1: so that campaign that's going live tomorrow, we've actually decided
Speaker 1: to change the script completely. You go, well, actually, I'll
Speaker 1: get back to you at nine am after it's gone
Speaker 1: live and we can amend it then, because I am
Speaker 1: not going to have my team working at midnight to
Speaker 1: fix the script that you guys had already signed off on,
Speaker 1: Like I'm quite clear about that, because that is not
Speaker 1: worth the mental stress for my team. And also I
Speaker 1: know that we communicate clearly. We set boundaries with our clients.
Speaker 1: I gave them sign off weeks prior. This is not
Speaker 1: an emergency. There's literally nothing more draining and consuming when
Speaker 1: you are constantly seeing emails popping up related to work.
Speaker 1: So let's just make sure that there are practical ways
Speaker 1: of shutting off while you're in your downtime, because for
Speaker 1: most jobs, it's not an emergency.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And also another person's sense of urgency, so whether that
Speaker 1: is you're manager or a client, does not constitute an
Speaker 1: emergency on your behalf.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So like, just because someone else is flustered about it
Speaker 1: and stressed about it does not mean you have to
Speaker 1: take that on. Go okay, cool, hold on, let's step back.
Speaker 1: Is this, in the grand scheme of things, actually an emergency? No,
Speaker 1: I'll deal with that tomorrow morning. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for looping me in.
Speaker 4: It's so hard, so hard to let energy and not
Speaker 4: let it overtake you.
Speaker 1: In the moment. It's really hard. But I think that
Speaker 1: once we start to talk about it and learn more
Speaker 1: and go, well, actually, you're right. I get so stressed
Speaker 1: when I see my manager's emails coming through at nine pm.
Speaker 1: Turn them off. Yeah, you owe them, not anything at
Speaker 1: nine pm. The next is I want you to set
Speaker 1: the boundaries with your boss and your coworkers. So let's
Speaker 1: say you're outside of working hours and your boss decides
Speaker 1: to text you rather than email or send it on
Speaker 1: Slack and you feel like you need to address it immediately,
Speaker 1: you actually don't, so what I would do. We're kind like,
Speaker 1: we're not being rude here, We're not setting boundaries and
Speaker 1: then yelling at people for crossing them. Hey, no worries,
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for looping me in. I'll actually get
Speaker 1: to this first thing tomorrow morning. As soon as you
Speaker 1: start responding to work related requests outside of business hours,
Speaker 1: that kind of becomes the expectation, and employers are and
Speaker 1: do and will take advantage of this.
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 1: Like at the end of the day, Beck, if I'm
Speaker 1: texting you at nine pm and going, oh, I really
Speaker 1: would love to xyz and you go, oh, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll do it right now, Like I'll go, oh, Beck's
Speaker 1: fine to do that. Yeah, obviously, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: take it antage of you like that. Don't worry. But
Speaker 1: I think you texting and being like, yeah, that sounds epic.
Speaker 1: I'll get onto it tomorrow morning. Just a little reminder
Speaker 1: that I'm not working right now. I'm not in front
Speaker 1: of a laptop right now. You could be anywhere. It's
Speaker 1: your personal time, so it's personal information. The next is
Speaker 1: put on your email signatures I guess when you're available
Speaker 1: and when you're not. So Jess. In our team, we
Speaker 1: all know Jess. She's on the Friday EPs. She's really
Speaker 1: good at this. So if she's in a studio, she
Speaker 1: puts on an email like out of office that says,
Speaker 1: thanks for the email, I'm actually out of office today.
Speaker 1: I'm in the studio recording and I'll get back to
Speaker 1: you asap. If it's an emergency, here's Maddie's contact details
Speaker 1: and she can deal with it. So I like that
Speaker 1: she kind of sets a boundary but also communicates it.
Speaker 1: It's not just going, well, I'm in the studio, so
Speaker 1: I'm clearly not going to get back to my emails today,
Speaker 1: but she sets that out of office so that you know,
Speaker 1: if a client does an email during genuine work hours,
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, she's actually busy with another work task
Speaker 1: or another work thing. And to me, this is really
Speaker 1: important because if you've communicated this, then perfect. But the
Speaker 1: expectation is there, not on Jess to get back to
Speaker 1: them that day, Like you've set an expectation and it
Speaker 1: kind of avoids you getting home and feeling like you
Speaker 1: need to get back to everybody because you miss quote
Speaker 1: a work day, but Jess was working all day. It's
Speaker 1: just a different task and she didn't have time for
Speaker 1: it during that working period, and that is so fine.
Speaker 1: The next beck, do not disturb massive sign stick it
Speaker 1: on your forehead. But that's an option on your phone
Speaker 1: as well to turn on focus. So I use the
Speaker 1: focus thing on my phone all the time. And it
Speaker 1: means that if people text you, it will notify them
Speaker 1: that your notifications are turned off, and therefore they won't
Speaker 1: expect action until it's clearly at a time that works
Speaker 1: for you.
Speaker 4: That is a big source of my anxiety, but it's
Speaker 4: good that they let people know that notifications are Have
Speaker 4: you ever.
Speaker 1: Text me after hours? It happens on my phone, So
Speaker 1: if you text me at like nine pm, yeah, it
Speaker 1: will like not send a reply, but under your messages
Speaker 1: it will have a littleation and it will say Victoria
Speaker 1: has her notification silence.
Speaker 4: Yes, I have seen those. That is really really good.
Speaker 4: I mean it should always be you can text me.
Speaker 1: It's fine. Like, I don't know if you guys know this,
Speaker 1: but I have ADHD and sometimes I get in brain
Speaker 1: dump mode and I'm like, far, it would be great
Speaker 1: if they did abc D E FG. And I'm not
Speaker 1: in the mind frame of going like, oh, it's nine pm.
Speaker 1: Probably shouldn't be worrying Beck. I'm just like, I want
Speaker 1: to get that to Beck so she can deal with
Speaker 1: it tomorrow. Sure, usually I'll just message it to you
Speaker 1: on Slack or whatever so that you know it's a
Speaker 1: work channel and you shouldn't have those notifications on anyway.
Speaker 1: But I think it's really important to remember that maybe
Speaker 1: they are just brain dumping. Maybe they're just going, oh shit.
Speaker 1: I do need to remember to get back to do
Speaker 1: that for tomorrow. But then I'll get the notification that
Speaker 1: says Beck has her notification silence, and I'll be like, great, well,
Speaker 1: at least the message was delivered. She can look at
Speaker 1: it later. Yes, Like that's fine.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I kind of like that.
Speaker 1: Next thing on my list, this is number five. Ye
Speaker 1: begin to be assertive and honest about the opacity that
Speaker 1: you actually have.
Speaker 4: Okay, this is like really.
Speaker 1: Attacking you personally, because how many times Beck and I
Speaker 1: try not to do this to you. But I know
Speaker 1: that if someone said, hey, Beck, have you got a minute,
Speaker 1: what do you say?
Speaker 4: Yes, definitely, I have several of them. Yeah, but do
Speaker 4: you no, not all we don't have.
Speaker 1: A minute, you don't and it's okay to say no.
Speaker 1: So if you've been working an hour overtime every day
Speaker 1: for the past week, I need you to communicate with
Speaker 1: your manager and express that you have plans like for
Speaker 1: five point thirty and that you'll be knocking off work
Speaker 1: at an appropriate time tonight. Like I know that you
Speaker 1: shouldn't have to articulate that, but like, if you've set
Speaker 1: the expectation, we need to reset the expectation in not
Speaker 1: a you've been taking advantage of me way like just
Speaker 1: go oh hey, like I'll be leaving at five point
Speaker 1: thirty on time tonight. Sorry, I've got a dinner and
Speaker 1: you can do that whenever you want, but like it
Speaker 1: might make you feel a little bit better about having
Speaker 1: to be like, oh I can't do this. Yeah, you've
Speaker 1: shown up, You've done your best at work that day,
Speaker 1: and now I need you to go and enjoy your
Speaker 1: cocktail in pace like really really important. But also I
Speaker 1: think the whole be honest about your capacity is really important.
Speaker 1: So if your manager, for example, is just loading you
Speaker 1: up and being like, oh beck, Also, here's another thing
Speaker 1: I think going they just wanted to talk about my
Speaker 1: capacity like, so happy to do this. That sounds like
Speaker 1: a really fun task. Actually, but I have ABCDF. Just
Speaker 1: looking at my week, I'm not going to be able
Speaker 1: to deliver all of those. What are your priorities? Do
Speaker 1: you want me to mix this in? Do you want
Speaker 1: me to make this the top priority?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: What ones are actually important? Because nine times out of
Speaker 1: ten can almost guarantee that your manager has forgotten what
Speaker 1: they have allocated to you this week and you've just
Speaker 1: bitten off more than you can chew. But also it's
Speaker 1: a clear reminder to them that you cannot get the
Speaker 1: work done in the period of time that has been allocated.
Speaker 1: Maybe it needs to be reallocated. Maybe we need to
Speaker 1: stretch out some timeframes and be like, oh my god, beg,
Speaker 1: that is actually a lot of stuff. How about we
Speaker 1: just make it due in two weeks instead of one, Like,
Speaker 1: let's talk about these things so that you're not putting
Speaker 1: unnecessary pressure on yourself. Like I just remember my corporate
Speaker 1: days and being so triggered because I would have so
Speaker 1: many things put on my plate, but I'd never say no,
Speaker 1: and I'd never tell them that my capacity was too much,
Speaker 1: and then I'd be like, but they gave me all
Speaker 1: this work and I have to do it this week
Speaker 1: because they said it was due Friday, and like I'd
Speaker 1: stress myself out. Why didn't I have those conversations about like,
Speaker 1: oh hey, like I'm actually like fully booked this week
Speaker 1: to get Project ABC done. I know they want me
Speaker 1: to take on Project D, but like at what cost?
Speaker 4: Right? I guess it is really good to look through
Speaker 4: that list and see that there are actually so many
Speaker 4: practical ways of doing it without the anxiety of like
Speaker 4: a sit down conversation. You can yeah, literally just like
Speaker 4: pop your phone on, do not disturb or mute your emails,
Speaker 4: like things like that.
Speaker 1: Does there have to be aggressive?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: And when we say b assotive, it's just more like, oh, hey,
Speaker 1: like we're not being rude or me or anything. I'd
Speaker 1: love to do that, but I have four other projects
Speaker 1: on the goal at the moment, like jump me to
Speaker 1: prioritize this one or deprioritize it. And sometimes if you're
Speaker 1: working in like a nine to five job, there might
Speaker 1: be multiple people giving you multiple different things, and like
Speaker 1: you don't know what I've been given by you know,
Speaker 1: analysa our producer versus Jess or you know, Gabby, you
Speaker 1: have no idea what's on my plate this week. So
Speaker 1: when you ask for something and I go, well, Beck,
Speaker 1: how important is it? You go, oh, well, actually it's
Speaker 1: really important for it's for this. I go, okay, cool,
Speaker 1: Now I need to like reschedule my week, and I
Speaker 1: might need to go back to Gabby and be like, Hey,
Speaker 1: this other important thing has popped up. Do you mind
Speaker 1: if I look at this other thing next week? And
Speaker 1: that's fine, But it's about setting that expectation, not just
Speaker 1: assuming I'll take on more. I'll take on more. I'll
Speaker 1: take on more. And that's where good diary management can
Speaker 1: come in. Yeah, like time block. If I don't time block,
Speaker 1: I would be absolutely cooked back.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, And I think like it's good that you
Speaker 4: mentioned that you're not being mean or I think that
Speaker 4: a source of anxiety for a lot of people is
Speaker 4: that they might come across as like they're not as
Speaker 4: committed to their work. It doesn't actually mean that at all,
Speaker 4: does it?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Absolutely not, And I think that that's where we need
Speaker 1: to talk, maybe not with our manager directly about boundaries,
Speaker 1: but even just the communication of it, like having those like, oh, Beck,
Speaker 1: I really want to do a good job on that,
Speaker 1: but I've got these other things on which ones priority.
Speaker 1: Because it's saying in a way without having to say it,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be working until ten pm every
Speaker 1: night to get this done, so like when is it
Speaker 1: going to get done? And I think that that is
Speaker 1: absolutely fine, but at the end of the day, you
Speaker 1: need to protect your piece and a lot of employers
Speaker 1: not all, but as a business owner, I know that
Speaker 1: when my team is feeling refreshed and respected, they are
Speaker 1: so much more likely to perform at a higher level
Speaker 1: and deliver amazing outcomes for the team because they actually
Speaker 1: feel good, they feel rested, they feel excited for work
Speaker 1: rather than drained and overwhelmed and all consumed. And I
Speaker 1: genuinely think that that's what employers should be striving for
Speaker 1: because ultimately it benefits them absolutely, like you're telling me,
Speaker 1: and not all employers are going to agree with this.
Speaker 1: One of my employees up all night with one of
Speaker 1: their kids. They're overwhelmed, they are just so done, they
Speaker 1: had next to no sleep. You're telling me that the
Speaker 1: best thing for everyone here is that they still turn
Speaker 1: up at eight thirty for work the next morning. I
Speaker 1: haven't got any client meetings so there's no like real
Speaker 1: commitment there. You're telling me that it's not better to
Speaker 1: have my team member go do you know what, I'm
Speaker 1: going to drop the kids off to daycare, get rid
Speaker 1: of them because that was the worst night. I'm going
Speaker 1: to go back to bed till ten am. Then I'm
Speaker 1: going to go to work. I'll do some work later.
Speaker 1: You're telling me that's not a better outcome.
Speaker 4: Absolutely would be what are.
Speaker 1: You guys on if that's not a better outcome? Like
Speaker 1: a well rested employee who you know, comes in switched on,
Speaker 1: feels like they had that flexibility, feels like they were respected,
Speaker 1: is going to give so much more even if they're
Speaker 1: at work, you know, for a less period of time
Speaker 1: and they're making it up later.
Speaker 4: Like for sure, right, the feeling of being an equal
Speaker 4: and valued part of the team is so valuable. But
Speaker 4: I also want to like, no, this is you know,
Speaker 4: maybe not so relevant for me. But if there's a
Speaker 4: business owner listening out there, what do you think their
Speaker 4: takeaway should be?
Speaker 2: Dick?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so four business owners? Treat your employees like
Speaker 1: the adult humans that they are, Like, you're not employing
Speaker 1: twelve year olds because one that would be illegal if
Speaker 1: you are, you really need to probably look at yourself
Speaker 1: in the mirror, but also treat your employees just like
Speaker 1: the adults. They have lives, and they have good days
Speaker 1: and they have bad days, and yes, you need to
Speaker 1: show up for you between nine and five every day,
Speaker 1: but reward them when they are working over time, thank
Speaker 1: them for going above and beyond. Like I totally get it.
Speaker 1: You might be a small business and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is so awkward, but like some of my teamwork
Speaker 1: over time and I actually really need them to, but
Speaker 1: I can't afford to pay them one. That's not cool.
Speaker 1: You need to work that out, but like, at least
Speaker 1: vocalize that you're grateful. At least I'd be like a
Speaker 1: lot better. Honestly, thank you so much. I know you
Speaker 1: don't have to, you know, I really really appreciate it,
Speaker 1: and like you again don't have to, but I think
Speaker 1: just feeling like you're valued is really important as well.
Speaker 1: And if they are going above and beyond, talk to
Speaker 1: them about that and just be like, I am so grateful,
Speaker 1: I really appreciate this. You know what, where possible, will
Speaker 1: remunerate them pay over time if that's part of it.
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, they're going over
Speaker 1: and above for your business, for you, and that should
Speaker 1: be rewarded.
Speaker 2: Hm.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, what are you reaoning about employees?
Speaker 1: So for employees, communication is obviously the key. Like setting
Speaker 1: your boundaries, it can be hard, but from little things,
Speaker 1: big things. Gross start with really small boundaries. Manage expectations
Speaker 1: from the get go, though, to protect your peace, take
Speaker 1: the practical steps, but also just communicate with your employer
Speaker 1: if they don't respect you as a human being going
Speaker 1: through life, honestly, get a new job. Find someone who
Speaker 1: values you. There's lots of places out there. I know
Speaker 1: that that is the hard reality of it, because so
Speaker 1: many people will be like Betsy, it's such a good job.
Speaker 1: I'm getting such a good experience at what cost? At
Speaker 1: what cost?
Speaker 4: Absolutely so.
Speaker 1: I think we need to talk about that more and
Speaker 1: more regularly. But what we need to be doing is
Speaker 1: setting boundaries.
Speaker 4: I love that. I think that's a really good place
Speaker 4: to leave it for today.
Speaker 1: I do think so too. So have a good week, guys.
Speaker 1: We will see you bright and early on Friday morning.
Speaker 1: Until then, love you bye, guys.
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